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Daily review 12/12/2022

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, December 12th, 2022 - 65 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

65 comments on “Daily review 12/12/2022 ”

    • psych nurse 1.1

      That's a big NO from me. Giving Nurses immediate residency without registration is foolish. We already have countless Doctors given residency before registration driving Taxis. In my institution we have an Indian renal transplant surgeon working as a hospital aide, he has residency but cannot get a medical registration. Nursing is a profession of communication, you have to pass an IELT's test. Many don't.

      • pat 1.1.1

        "Nursing is a profession of communication, you have to pass an IELT's test. Many don't."

        This….having engaged with these services the past few years never has a truer word been said.

        When it comes to health care (clear) communication and understanding by all parties is vital….unfortunately many of the migrant staff are (understandably) at a great disadvantage…and that impacts the capability and capacity of the entire service.

        • psych nurse

          There is also the ethical and moral question. Should we be poaching Nurses from developing Nations with their own health workforce issues. The Philippines excepted as they train far more Nurses than needed. Their Nursing Degree is vastly superior to ours being a five year qualification as opposed to three, and the language of instruction being English, well American English.

          • Belladonna

            I really don't think that argument is going to fly with the people sitting at home, in significant pain, with deteriorating health and miserable quality of life, because routine, relatively basic surgery isn't available (because of the lack of medical staff).

            Nor with the families who are trying to find placements for elderly relatives, because nursing homes/dementia care units/aged care facilities – are closing down because they can’t get the required numbers of registered nurses to operate.

            Nor with the nurses I know who are under constant pressure to extend shifts, work longer, give up their precious time with the families – because there is no one else to cover the shift.

            • weka

              so the argument is yes, we should poach healthcare workers from countries with an equal or greater need than us?

              It's not like that is the only choice.

              • It's probably the only short-term choice. Unless you can think of another one which will substantially increase the healthcare workforce over the next 3 or so years.

                It takes time (years) to train healthcare workers, to even the entry level of the profession. And more years to develop specialities (x-ray technicians, for example)

                Yes, we should be investing in a heck of a lot more training (still not seeing any change in the number of trainee doctor positions at the unis). But that won't pay quick dividends in resolving the healthcare crisis.

                Yes, we should be drastically increasing pay. I'd also say improving conditions – but it's a Catch-22: the biggest issue over working conditions is lack of staff.

                • weka

                  we used to train nurses on the job. There are many places with staffing shortages that need skilled carers not carers with a degree.

                  We could also be sorting out the medium and long term solutions.

                  • I agree that we used to train nurses on the job. It did, however, require a functioning framework of OTJ training and expertise – which doesn't currently exist. And trying to develop it in the midst of a health staffing crisis, is a bad idea – you end up with staff even more stressed by trying to train new people at the same time they are overwhelmed by volume of work in their 'real' job. It goes very badly for everyone concerned.

                    Any places who can employ carers (unqualified) have already done so – to the best of their ability. It doesn’t help with the areas where you absolutely do need to have a RN – or other qualified professional.

                    I agree that the government need to be sorting out the medium and long-term solutions.

                    Seeing a lot of words around this from Little, but not much actual evidence that things are changing in the health training field.

                    • weka

                      there is a problem with returning to relying on working holiday visa workers, which is what is needed to solve the problem short term if we go with TINA. And that is that once all the borders are open the way they were and assuming people will come in the same numbers, we then have the same problem we had before of employers hiring visa workers not locals (because they can pay them less and give shitty work conditions), and locals not being able to get enough work to live on.

                      Plus the housing crisis issues.

                      If we do do that, then we have learned nothing from the pandemic and deserve all the stupid and harmful fall out.

                  • However, we weren't discussing working holiday visas, but rather people immigrating in NZ under the qualifications visa. Specifically medical/healthcare workers.

          • UncookedSelachimorpha

            NZ is just trying to bludge on other nation's investments in training, instead of investing ourselves.

            We saddle nurses with huge student debts and refuse to pay them enough after they qualify.

          • Hunter Thompson II

            Good point you raised. From what I could see when in hospital in 2018, we have a lot of nurses from the Philippines already.

            But boy do we have competition. NSW announced a $4.5 billion plan for health worker recruitment back in June. Seems their target is 10,000 new people.

      • Anker 1.1.2

        Interesting to hear this point of view.

        There were the two ED nurses from Ireland who were here and there had been such a delay in getting registration that they were going to work in hospo.

        I imagine their English wasn't the problem. Something wrong there that needs ironing out

      • Incognito 1.1.3


      • Belladonna 1.1.4

        That probably says more about the …. inefficiencies (not to say guild-mentality) of the medical registration process, than anything else.

        Or do you really think that a neurosurgeon from the third-world medical system in Hungary isn't qualified to work in NZ, but is welcomed with open arms in the (clearly lower standards of the UK medical system) /sarc/


        My understanding is that the bar for gaining the immigration status is quite high (i.e. the IELTS element has already been factored in). Nurses from non-first-world countries can (and I gather are) required to complete a CAP before they are eligible for the visa.


        If NZ still has 'doctors driving taxis' then the Ministry of Health as well as the various medical registration boards need to take a good hard look at the situation – and what they can do to fix it.

      • Craig H 1.1.5

        It's a requirement of employment-based residence visas e.g. Skilled Migrant Category that the applicant has registration where registration is legally required to undertake the work in New Zealand. I had a look back through old immigration criteria, and that requirement dates back to 26/7/1999, so it sounds like the government of the day learnt something from those previous examples of doctors driving taxis (and other skilled professionals – I once had a good chat with a taxi driver who was qualified as an accountant overseas and migrated in the 1990s but couldn't get his qualifications recognised here so couldn't get an accounting job so ended up buying a taxi).

        It's also the only criterion for registered nurse in the Green List ("NZ registration with the Nursing Council of New Zealand") along with the general requirement of having either employment or an offer of employment in the occupation i.e. registered nurse in this case.

    • Jimmy 1.2

      If I was an English nurse, I would be going to Australia or Canada before coming to NZ.

  1. Ian 2

    It's been a few years since I have commented here and see familiar names still fighting for the cause. But who would have thought that radical ,activist maori would have taken over the labour party when there was so much opportunity to do real good in the community. You had your chance and have blown it . You can't ignore the nepotism of Mahuta,or the failure of your prime minister to sensibly answer questions on subjects we want an answer too.The sooner she goes the better,for everyone

    [You must have the memory of John Key because the last time you commented here was on 19 Aug (https://thestandard.org.nz/this-is-what-the-climate-crisis-looks-like-in-new-zealand-so-far/#comment-1906669).

    You made a bold accusation about Mahuta that is popular with RWNJs and you must back it up with hard unequivocal evidence such as a Court conviction (guilty verdict), a resignation from all her portfolios and Cabinet, or something similar. Alternatively, you retract your accusation and give a heartfelt apology. I doubt you will do either as you’ve failed to do so in the past, which earned you a ban.

    If you fail to provide an adequate response, it will indeed be a few years before you can comment here again on this site – Incognito]

    • observer 2.1

      Tell us more about "the nepotism of Mahuta". With evidence, not empty rhetoric.

      Also, what do you think about the Hamilton West by-election? Would you like to see the new MP in government?

      • Anker 2.1.1

        Observer Kate McNamara from the Herald has been writing about Nainaia and nepotism. Its behind the paywall, so I can't link the full article.

        One of the accusations centred around Nainaia directly appointing her niece to be on the committee who wrote the Hepuapua report, without reclusing herself when making the appointment.

        There has also been the appointment of her husbands company to various govt contracts which he appears to have no special expertise in (e.g running a suicide preventation workshop and something to do with waste management). Mahutas husband was awarded these contracts in Depts when she was Minister or associate minister. This is under investigation currently (I think by the States services committee). It seems Mahutas nephews have also been awarded contracts as has her sister. On one of these occassions Mahuta stood aside and Davis finalised appointments.

        I guess until the review is complete we won't know if we can confirm nepotism (I suspect public servants will be the ones found guilty)

      • Anker 2.1.2


        Actually Observer, I was able to find this which isn't behind the paywall which does a reasonable job of outlining some of the issues.

        • observer

          Which is why I asked for evidence.

          We all know how this works. Throw enough mud, hope some sticks. Use phrases like no smoke without fire or swirling around, all vague enough to avoid specifics, or even defamation, but with a wink to say "know what I mean, guv?".

          Bryce's column from 3 months ago adds nothing. I'm well aware of the campaign against Mahuta, I'm sure we all are. But my question has not been answered.

          (It isn't meant to be, of course. Mud-chuckers know that murk is more harmful than clarity. That's why they do it, why Ian said it).

          • observer

            Here's the bit you and Ian both missed. Mahuta asked for the inquiry herself:


          • Anker

            Yes I provided the three months old column cause it was the only one I could find that wasn't behind the paywall.

            I have heard the results of the enquiries are out before xmas.

            I think given these accusations have progressed to enquiries then it is not really about mud throwers. There is something of substance to investigate, so an investigation has taken place.

            I think it is hard to argue against a breech of the cabinet manual when Mahuta directly appointed her niece to the He puapua committee.

            Are you saying that there is nothing to see here? That her husband being awarded contracts when she was Minister or Associate Minister and Megan Wood claiming there were deficits in the process is just mud slinging?

            Remember it is not just conflict of interests but perception of a conflict of interest. Given Mahutas husband kept getting these contracts it is only right the process is queried.

            I think if a National Cabinet Ministers husband and close family members kept getting contracts when she was Minister or Associate Minister and there were deficits in the process followed people on this site would be up and arms……

            • observer

              If you want to test the old "role reversal", that's easy.

              Mahuta is Foreign Minister. Murray McCully was Foreign Minister. So compare McCully's actions on the Saudi sheep farm with Mahuta's. Compare the wrongdoing. Compare the media coverage. And compare the result (McCully was neither sacked nor even admonished by PM Key).

              Ben Thomas (a right wing commentator) summed it up pretty well.


              Let's cut to the chase here. You know why Mahuta is treated differently from McCully. Her face doesn't fit.

              A few minutes on social media will dispel any doubts on that score.

              • Anker
                • Are you saying with Mahuta that there is nothing to see with the Govt contracts awarded to her husband (and other relatives?) when she was Minister or Associate Minister?
                • If that is what you are saying you are entitle to that view.

                I think it doesn’t look good and I am glad it’s being investigated. For me it has absolutely nothing to do with Mahutas race. I am not racist.

                I am sorry she has experienced racist abuse on line

            • Robert Guyton

              "There is something of substance to investigate, so an investigation has taken place."

              Utter nonsense and a prime example of how mud-slinging works. Naniaia Mahuta called for the investigation to disprove the slingers, not because "there is something of substance".

              • Anker


                Robert you are incorrect that Mahuta called for the review. This Radio NZ article outlines the process that took place leading to the review.

                • Robert Guyton

                  Nanaia Mahuta supported the proposal for a review, to counter the mistaken perception of wrong-doing.Edit: “Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta says she asked Public Service Minister Chris Hipkins for an investigation into government contracts awarded to her tane.
                  Public Service Commissioner Peter Hughes says the handling of contracts to Gannin Ormsby’s Ka Awatea Services will be looked into, although it does not warrant a full inquiry.
                  He was responding to allegations of conflict of interest made by National’s public service spokesperson, Simeon Brown in relation to four agencies, as well a request by Mr Hipkins for a wider review into whether all public service agencies are following proper processes to manage conflicts of interest.
                  Ms Mahuta hopes the inquiry will end attacks on her family.
                  “It has concerned me for some time that even though I have declared conflicts of interest and noted that they have been managed in accordance with the Cabinet Manual, these stories are persisting. I raised my concerns with Minister Hipkins verbally on the 12th of this month and then wrote a letter to ask that he have a look at that so I’m very pleased with the outcome,” she says.”

                • joe90

                  Robert you are incorrect that Mahuta called for the review.


                  The commission on Wednesday confirmed – in a letter to the National Party – it would look into the handling of any conflicts of interest, after requests from the party, Minister Chris Hipkins and Mahuta herself.


                  • Anker

                    Joe 90, this is a quote from my link from RNZ about.

                    “National's public service spokesperson Simeon Brown wrote to Hughes on 29 August and again two weeks later – on 13 September – requesting the company's contracts with Kāinga Ora, the Ministry for the Environment, the Department of Conservation and Te Pūni Kōkiri be looked into after it was raised in the media.

                    Mahuta also wrote to Public Service Minister Chris Hipkins on Monday, saying she had been "assiduous regarding declarations of potential conflicts and management of those potential conflicts in line with Cabinet Office guidance and oversight".”

                    Hipkins then wrote to Peter Hughes.

                    As this article is from RNZ on 21st Sept, I think it is safe to assume that the Monday Mahuta wrote to Hipkins was the Monday 19th September. That is after Simeon Brown started the ball rolling.

    • Robert Guyton 2.2

      You've returned, Ian, completely unchanged!

    • Radical activist Maori? Laugh of the day. devil An educated woman who has worked for Helen Clark and now Jacinda Ardern. Nanaia Mahuta is no radical.

    • weka 2.4

      Not sure who you are talking to exactly (this isn't a Labour Party site), and you've commented half a dozen times here in 2022.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 2.5

      "The sooner she goes the better"

      That very much depends on what the replacement is!!!!

    • Incognito 2.6

      Mod note

    • Ian 2.7

      You must have your head in the sand or somewhere darker if you have no suspicions regarding Mahuta and her nepotism. Time will tell on this subject .Any prime minister in the past,including Helen Clark would have removed Mahuta and Jackson from cabinet as a bare minimum for breaches of the rules and conventions of Cabinet responsibility. The voters will sort them out if the PM doesn't.

      • Robert Guyton 2.7.1

        Wot tripe!

      • weka 2.7.2

        Any prime minister in the past,including Helen Clark would have removed Mahuta and Jackson from cabinet as a bare minimum for breaches of the rules and conventions of Cabinet responsibility.

        Which breaches of the rules and conventions of Cabinet? Be specific.

      • Mac1 2.7.3

        So, Ian, thanks for that. You have nothing but suspicions and you tell us that time will tell.

        Some of us here require a little more precision than that.

        Evidence, facts, cogent argument- that sort of thing…..

        • Ian

          Anyone watching Mahuta this afternoon in parliament would be left in little doubt she is walking a tightrope. 1 slip and she will fall.

          • Incognito

            I am still waiting for your hard evidence for your bold accusations.

          • Mac1

            Did you hear the Opposition's continued calls for her resignation during question time, the interruptions to her answers- of course she's under pressure.

            Now, have you heard the report from the commission?

            Nothing untoward from the Minister’s behaviour.

            Instead by her asking for the investigation, we were able to be alerted to the less than secure practice of the ministry regarding possible nepotic practice.

            She’s done us all a favour, Ian- just on Christmas.

  2. joe90 3

    I know it's not the done thing to talk about a lady's age but honestly, she doesn't look a day over thirty.

    • tinderdry6 3.1

      Stunning! I recently had the privilege of visiting the Taiaroa Head colony, and was in awe of these magnificent creatures. We were there on a windy day, and so we got to see at least 6 birds going through their landing routine. Unforgettable.

  3. weka 4

    Just so we all know where things stand and where some people want us to head.

    • Visubversa 4.1

      That is the thing with autogynephilia – they have to have everything that women have. Nothing can ever be for females only – everything from knitting groups to Olympic level sports are there for them to fetishise and infiltrate. And once they are there – they have to be centered in the activity.

      If only they put the same amount of energy, time and $$$$ into establishing the equivalent services and sports for trans people. But that is absolutely not what they want – particularly not what they find so sexually exciting. It is all about the "validation" as "women".

    • Nic the NZer 4.2

      This Travers scholar has done so much research, that they have completely missed that most sports already allow participation in the open (e.g male) category on request.

      • hetzer 4.2.1

        " They?" Theres more than one of these moron scholars?

        • Nic the NZer

          English isn't your first language?

          • hetzer

            No, its not actually mi amigo. My mistake was not linguistic though, rather fat fingers on a tiny screenpad.

            • Nic the NZer

              Sure, well in this sentence "they" refers to things previously mentioned (Travers), so not a plural.

              • weka

                confusing because there is in fact more than once scholar involved.

                • Nic the NZer

                  That seems both a very subtle and accurate description. Travers does reference papers written in 2006 and 2008 around that point, indicating they did contribute more than once on the subject. On the other hand I think they are the same author in both cases. They still don't appear to have done much research into existing sporting code practices however, even to the present day.

  4. joe90 5


  5. Anker 6

    Nobody is stopping trans women from playing sports. They can play in the category of their biological sex.

  6. joe90 7

    Could be world-changing or it could be, you know, interesting….

    The Department of Energy plans to announce Tuesday that scientists have been able for the first time to produce a fusion reaction that creates a net energy gain — a major milestone in the decades-long, multibillion-dollar quest to develop a technology that provides unlimited, cheap, clean power.

    The aim of fusion research is to replicate the nuclear reaction through which energy is created on the sun. It is a “holy grail” of carbon-free power that scientists have been chasing since the 1950s. It is still at least a decade — maybe decades — away from commercial use, but the latest development is likely to be touted by the Biden administration as an affirmation of a massive investment by the government over the years.


    The development was first reported by the Financial Times on Sunday. It was confirmed by two people familiar with the research, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid getting ahead of the official announcement. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm was slated to make the announcement Tuesday at a media event billed as the unveiling of “a major scientific breakthrough.”

    https://archive.vn/RUXZl (wapo)

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