Daily Review 12/07/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:12 pm, July 12th, 2016 - 87 comments
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From the fantastic @kupuhou

From the fantastic @kupuhou

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

87 comments on “Daily Review 12/07/2016 ”

  1. Peter Swift 1

    New polls show unions have come around to labours 172 mps way of thinking.
    As union representatives take up 12 of the NEC seats – about a third of the total, Corbyn’s looking weaker by the minute.

    http://election-data.co.uk/poll-of-trade-union-members

    “Meanwhile, a YouGov poll for the Election Data website suggested that of 1,221 trade union members surveyed, 63% thought Mr Corbyn was doing badly as leader, compared with 33% who thought he was doing well.

    Also, 76% said it was unlikely that Mr Corbyn would ever become prime minister, while 69% said it was unlikely Labour would win the next election while he was leader.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36770627

    Damn those neo lib, neo con, blairite union members.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      Corbyn must be aggressive in his approach and get the disloyal ring leaders de-selected at the electorate level. No compromises. The backstabbing Blairites will offer him none.

      • Peter Swift 1.1.1

        That’s looking increasingly unlikely. He’s looking toasted with these latest numbers.
        But you can dream on, bro.

        • Paul 1.1.1.1

          One simple question from Andrew Neil leaves Labour coup leader Angela Eagle floundering.

          Interviewing Angela Eagle MP about her leadership bid against Jeremy Corbyn, Andrew Neil had a simple question:

          Other than Trident, what are the main policy differences?

          http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/11/simple-question-andrew-neil-leaves-labour-coups-angela-eagle-floundering/

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifldzS_9oHg

          • Kevin 1.1.1.1.1

            She is no Helen Clark.

            Anyone who supported that war should not be putting themselves forward as a candidate of the Labour Party.

            “If he wins will you accept the result?”

            “You have to accept the result of any democratic process” – Unless Jeremy Corbyn wins, which is highly likely. The knives were out for Corbyn from day one.

          • Rodel 1.1.1.1.2

            Eagle or seagull.. Crap either way. Just one cliche after another, like Cameron and certainly, certainly is no Helen Clark.

        • mickysavage 1.1.1.2

          A labour leader who supported the invasion of Iraq. How do you feel about that Peter?

          • Peter Swift 1.1.1.2.1

            Labour’s leadership is much more complicated than a single issue like that, but even though I opposed the UK’s involvement, better her than the current unelectable one.

          • te reo putake 1.1.1.2.2

            I felt OK with having a Labour leader here who as a young MP supported the party’s dodgy economic reforms. Helen turned out great.

        • the pigman 1.1.1.3

          You’re dreaming.

          Suppose the B-liar-ites capture the NEC into stating that white is black and Corbyn isn’t to run against any nominee, you don’t think that will be challenged in the High Court?

          Now who’s dreaming?

      • Stuart Munro 1.1.2

        I’m not sure that’s his MO. Corbyn’s instincts are pretty democratic – and in any membership ballot the PLP will be like Angela Eagle – conspicuously less attractive than Julia Gillard. He gets reaffirmed and they get blighted by fading support. He doesn’t need to wield mana-depleting electoral violence or party authority. It’s like he has electoral Aikido and they’ve got no game.

    • Anne 1.2

      Ha! 1221 Union members polled out of a population of 63 million. Now, I don’t know how many would be members of the unions surveyed, but I’m picking there would be a few million of them at least. And what’s the bet those “1221” members were umm… carefully selected?

      • Peter Swift 1.2.1

        Of course it’s only a poll, which may or may not be truly representative, that’s a given, so go ahead and mock the statistics if you will, even if they are the only union specific ones we have so far.

        Though do remember we make a big fuss over here when labour and the greens edge past national on similar small sample numbers, so let’s not be in too much of a rush to knock the figures too much we rely on to give us hope.

        • Paul 1.2.1.1

          They Have Crossed the Rubicon

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z6ZLs1X_9s

        • North 1.2.1.2

          Must say George Galloway immeasurably more satisfying than Peter Swift’s polemics. There appears an honesty in the former.

          • Peter Swift 1.2.1.2.1

            I’m not lying, I really do want Corbyn out and an electable leader put in his place.
            On a site where labour voters routinely get rounded upon and abuse by the ultras is par for the course, there’s your honesty for you 😉

            • swordfish 1.2.1.2.1.1

              Mr Peter Swift “Meanwhile, a YouGov poll for the Election Data website suggested that of 1,221 trade union members surveyed … 69% said it was unlikely Labour would win the next election while he was leader.

              Damn those neo lib, neo con, blairite union members.

              I’m not lying, I really do want Corbyn out and an electable leader put in his place.”

              You “inadvertently” forgot to mention, Peter, that Union members in the YouGov Poll you cite also believe any replacement Leader is Unlikely to win the next General Election for Labour.

              YouGov

              If Jeremy Corbyn was replaced as leader of the
              Labour party,
              how likely or unlikely do you think it is
              that they would win the next general election?

              Entire sample and by Individual Unions

              ………………..ALL…..UNITE…..OTHER….CWU….GMB….UNISON….USDAW

              Likely ……….34%……29%………33%…….34%……37%…….35%……..39%
              Unlikely ……49%……55%………55%…….55%……47%…….45%……..44%

              Also, as many of those Union members polled believe he should stay on as believe he should step down now – 45%/45%
              Among those who voted Labour at the last Election – it’s 47%/44% in his favour.

      • “1221 Union members polled out of a population of 63 million.”

        Still a statistically useful number polled, Anne. Bear in mind it’s more than are polled here for our political polls where 800 to 1200 is regarded as a reliable number to call.

        Ironically, it’s roughly 4 times the number of people who just elected the new UK PM 😉

    • swordfish 1.3

      Mr Peter Swift “As union representatives take up 12 of the NEC seats – about a third of the total, Corbyn’s looking weaker by the minute.”

      Leading Unionists strongly back Corbyn according to the New Statesman:

      (1) George Eaton

      “Labour’s National Executive Committee will meet at 2pm tomorrow (Tuesday) to determine the terms of the contest, including whether Corbyn is automatically on the ballot. The party’s HQ and the leader’s office have received contradictory legal advice on whether he requires 51 nominations. But it is the NEC that will ultimately decide.

      Those I spoke to yesterday suggested that the 33-member body could rule that Corbyn requires nominations – if a secret vote is held. But senior Labour figures told me this afternoon that there is “no doubt” that the leader has the numbers required to prevail (“whatever the legal advice”). As well as left-wing allies on the NEC, Corbyn crucially retains the backing of the 12 trade union delegates. A senior source told me the unions’ support was “on lockdown” even in the event of a secret ballot (which would require a show of hands). “Unite are flying Martin Mayer in by plane. The TSSA delegate has cancelled her holiday,” he said.”

      (2) Stephanie Boland

      “With Angela Eagle expected to challenge the Labour leader imminently, Len McClusky and other union representatives have declared their support for Corbyn.

      ◦Len McClusky and the general secretaries of unions Unison and the GMB have come out in support of Jeremy Corbyn after news that “peace talks” had broken down, and a formal leadership challenge could be expected imminently.

      McClusky called Tom Watson’s statement earlier today, in which the deputy leader said he believed there “is little to be achieved by pursuing wider conversations with our union affiliates at this time”, “deeply disigengenuous”.

      Union support could be crucial in deciding whether or not Corbyn has an automatic place on the leadership ballot in the event of a challenge. The party is believed to have conflicting legal advice on the subject, with the final decision likely to be taken by Labour’s NEC, of which several seats are occupied by trade union representatives.”

  2. ropata 2

    New Jonathan Pie, freaking out over UK political chaos.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c7RDuSMvi0

    • tc 2.1

      Yet the blokes who created the tipping point (Farage and Johnson) are nowhere to be seen.

      Hope the electorate remembers these opportunists that had no plan or the guts to stay around and clean up their mess.

    • Anne 2.2

      Ouch!!

      Tories want a new Thatcher and Labour wants a new Blair.

      Brilliant. He’s right. The country’s fucked up. Can’t wait for the movie so long as it’s not out of Hollywood.

    • ianmac 2.3

      Great work Jonathon. Thanks Ropata. Do you think our parties are equally dislocated?

      • ropata 2.3.1

        I think the NZ Labour party is holding together pretty well under AL, there is a lot to like about its current direction back to its roots.

        If dirty politics is any guide, with Nats losing momentum, things will be getting pretty ugly behind closed doors, just look at Joyce/Bennett v English, McCully v Key.

        But NZ politics is boring tranquillity compared to the UK at the moment

  3. weka 3

    Windfarm at Bluekin Bay is denied consent. ODT article is very light for such an important issue, hopefull there will be in tomorrow

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/390093/no-wind-farm-blueskin-bay

    • mickysavage 3.1

      Freaking ridiculous. I tell you if they wanted to put a turbine on Lion Rock in Piha I would favourably consider it because climate change is that much of a threat.

      • bearded git 3.1.1

        There are other ways to address climate change without screwing up the landscape micky. The guy interviewed by ryan on 9 to noon last week said completely self sufficient (battery in house) solar systems will be Cheaper than connecting to the grid by 2018. He is the Oxford Uni expert…and that is the way to go not fecken massive towers.Anton Oliver has this right.

        • mickysavage 3.1.1.1

          My comment about Lion Rock was to emphasise how important the issue is. All good if there is an alternative but I am prepared for scenic desecration to stop climate change.

        • weka 3.1.1.2

          There are differences between the Blueskin Bay project and the Lammermoor one though. Wind is useful in ways that solar isn’t. No batteries for a start, which aren’t renewable, they’re a pollutant/waste, plus the whole night time thing. We should be looking at appropriate use of windfarms. That’s why I’m hoping the ODT will do better coverage. I’d like to know what the decision was actually based on.

          • bearded git 3.1.1.2.1

            Was based on fact that would wreck the lifestyle of people who have lived in blueskin bay for ages. Wind towers are ok in some places but solar technology is rapidly taking over

            • weka 3.1.1.2.1.1

              “Was based on fact that would wreck the lifestyle of people who have lived in blueskin bay for ages”

              That’s the superficial story. I’d like more detail.

              Solar has inherent pollutant issues.

              • Pat

                what inherent pollution issues does solar have?

                • weka

                  Think cradle to grave and what happens in all of that (same with windfarms of course). Some of the issues are solvable (eg manufacturing in NZ so we don’t enable local manufacturing pollution in countries with laxer standards). Some probably aren’t (the economics will be harder in a small country like NZ). Ultimately we should be using less power.

                  https://www.mysolarquotes.co.nz/blog/renewable-energy/preventing-environmental-damage-by-recycling-solar-power-panels

                  http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5650

                  http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/

                  http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/03/the-ugly-side-o.html

                  Even allowing for the probably bias in that last link, it’s still an interesting look at why the whole renewable thing isn’t a silver bullet even if we were to do it.

                  Can’t find a decent link to the battery problem. Last time I checked in NZ there wasn’t a good system for recycling. Might have changed though, that was a few years ago. Even with recycling we’re talking about levels of pollution once we get up to scale because they have to be replaced. Again, some of these problems are solvable, some not, and we should be looking at using less as our first instinct.

                  • Pat

                    so your talking production carbon cost?….. fair enough but in total solar is still way ahead of internal combustion or gas….dont forget lifespan is 25 years plus

                    • weka

                      I’m talking pollution cradle to grave. All of it.

                      What’s the lifespan of a wind turbine?

                  • gsays

                    Hi weka, re pollution probs with solar: any thoughts on the embedded energy contained in the cement to hold a turbine tower in place.?

                    I will check some numbers but from memory it was 150 cubic metres per tower for the Te Apiti wind farm here on the tararuas/ruahines.

                    Solar solar solar, no moving parts.

                    • weka

                      Completely agree, windfarms come with their own set of problems. Back in the day when people first started talking about renewables I would say wind and solar aren’t renewable, they use finite resources and create waste that can’t be dealt with (and think about that in a society that is hell bent on perpetual growth). Hey ho.

                      The deeper Green perspective works from principles of the natural world systems. Is the resource finite? What happens at the end of the life of the thing being made or used? What waste is created in between? The natural world generally has closed loops that can take those things in their stride. And above all, despite sun and wind being relatively infinite, we still live in a finite world. That’s how we should be designing.

                      The problem isn’t wind vs solar. It’s that people want a lifestyle that the planet simply cannot sustain. This would be true even if the pressure wasn’t on re CC.

                    • gsays

                      hi weka, ironically i was catching up with a permies site that had two relevant articles. incidentally permaculture offers a lot of knowledge that may become relevant very soon.
                      first is the conflict between living frugally vs expectations of others:
                      permies.com/t/57567/frugality/frugal-life-expectations-friends-family.

                      this one is about a book recently published about community power schemes;
                      permies.com/t/57432/books/Energy-Revolution-Howard-Johns

                    • weka

                      @gsays, agreed about permaculture! I’m working my way round to reading the threads on that forum about carbon sequestration and soil farming.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I also understand that the reinforced concrete foundations used for most wind turbines are unlikely to last longer than 50-100 years.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2

        Probably a good place for it to. Unfortunately, I don’t thin we could get more than one up there.

        • ropata 3.1.2.1

          It’s crumbling into the sea though? How about Devonport, the wind screams around North Head and the old gun emplacements

  4. weka 4

    If there is anything that epitomises the failings of the industrial world, it’s this.

    A ‘slow catastrophe’ unfolds as the golden age of antibiotics comes to an end

    http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-antibiotic-resistance-20160711-snap-story.html

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      IMO, The actual answer to that isn’t more anti-biotics but more vaccines. Teaching the body to resist these diseases is a better way than teaching the body to rely on anti-bacterial drugs to defend it.

      • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

        lol fail.

        Go look up what the most common fatal nosocomial infections are. Then ask yourself why no one has invented vaccines for these common deadly infections.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1

          Ok, looked it up, now what was your point?

          Hospital infections tend to be worse because it’s strongest of the bugs around due to the over-use of anti-biotics and sterile environment.

          A vaccine for every bug out there would seriously decrease the need for anti-biotics.

          Of course, the big problem we have now is that anti-biotics are no longer working due to that over-use.

      • One Two 4.1.2

        ‘Teaching’ the body using neurotoxic petro poisons…

        Often the expression of those who have no idea how the immune system functions , even at an elementary level

        Perhaps try nutrition, diet and exercise before reaching for alcohol,cigarettes and pharma drugs

        More vaccines is not the answer, in any biologically healthy and neurologically undamaged human being

        Are you naturally unhealthy?

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2.1

          And an anti-vaxxer pops up spouting BS and trying to sound knowledgeable.

          Making Vaccines: How Are Vaccines Made?

          Yes, I do know how the immune system functions which is why I know that diet and exercise do nothing for it – unless your exposed to the diseases while engaging in those things. Falling off your bicycle and getting a graze and thus being exposed to tetanus or having someone cough all over you while in a swanky health food cafe and thus being exposed to the cold bacterium.

          Are you naturally stupid or did you have to work at it?

          • One Two 4.1.2.1.1

            Straight to’anti vax’…oh dear lord there are some thick headed people around

            “A vaccine for every bug out there…”

            “Getting a graze and thus being exposed to tetanus…”

            “Exposed to the cold bacterium…”

            Your two comments are easily the most jumbled, confused and contradictory I’ve read on this site

            Slow.hand.clap

            • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2.1.1.1

              Your two comments are easily the most jumbled, confused and contradictory I’ve read on this site

              No they’re not else you’d be able to put up an argument as to why instead of just an ad hominem.

              • One Two

                Yes they are. In fact you could not identify the inaccuracies with your statements because you have so little knowledge and understanding

                Put up an argument against the 3 statements you made, which I pointed out…..

                The same posts where you believe diet and nutrition does not influence the immune system and that a cold is “bacterium”

                No chance bro, you are so far wrong it is a moot point

                • Draco T Bastard

                  So far, the only person who is wrong is you and you continue to prove your ignorance through your lack of argument.

          • One Two 4.1.2.1.2

            “Yes, I do know how the immune system functions which is why I know that diet and exercise do nothing for it…”

            You believe diet does not influence the immune system and you’re asking if I’m stupid…Have mercy

            Do yourself a favour and use the internet more effectively

            • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2.1.2.1

              Vaccines teach the immune system how to deal with pathogens whereas diet and exercise simply don’t do that. Being healthy means that the body have the strength and energy to respond which is, of course, needed and will certainly help keep you well a little bit longer if you do contract a pathogen. It might even be enough to keep you alive long enough for your immune system to learn how to respond but I wouldn’t count on it. Lots and lots of “young, otherwise healthy adults” have died over the ages due to not being able to fight off the disease.

              • One Two

                “Vaccines teach the immune system how to deal with pathogens…”

                No, they do not!

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Yes they do.

                  There are numerous scientific studies fucken proving it.

                  So, unless you’ve got actual scientific studies proving the exact opposite of what science has been telling us for half a century or more I suggest you STFU.

                  Really, all you’re doing is proving your ignorance.

                  • One Two

                    You bleat the same old nonsense , Draco

                    “We can’t afford the rich…”

                    “Cars are the most inefficient form of transport…”

                    “I used to work in technology…”

                    “The science tells us…”

                    What you lack is intelligence levels capable of rational critique, your comments say as much. They are full of fundamental inaccuracies, which you don’t even recognize. That’s a serious flaw in my opinion

                    So is your anger and agression, indicating how arrested your developmental pathways are

                    It’s no surprise you have the views and beliefs that you do. Fantasy and ego are a terrible mix for anyone

                    Only a few short years until it’s all completely exposed. I’ve said that before, it can’t be stopped now!

                    Nothing you or I say or do is going to alter that outcome

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      And, again, you’ve spouted off proving your ignorance.

                      Instead of addressing the points that I’ve made (all backed up) all you’ve done is throw ad hominem attacks at me. The sign of some one who’s lost the argument but is unwilling to let it go.

                      Now you’ve even thrown in Psychological projection as the anger is obviously yours.

                      I won’t reply to you again as you’ve got nothing to say.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Vaccinations typically force your immune system to react to molecules that it would never normally respond to, in ways that would normally never happen in nature.

                      I wouldn’t accept chemicals like that into my body unless their level of tangible, real life benefit was high. Measurable increase in life expectancy etc.

          • Richard Christie 4.1.2.1.3

            The common cold is a virus, not a bacterium, most vaccines are developed to combat viral diseases, most antibiotics target bacterial infections.

            • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2.1.3.1

              The common cold is a virus, not a bacterium…

              Yeah, was trying to remember. Should have googled.

              …most vaccines are developed to combat viral diseases, most antibiotics target bacterial infections.

              Yes, I’m aware of that. The reason being that anti-biotics don’t work on viruses so we have to get the immune system to work on them thus we have vaccines. This doesn’t mean that a vaccine couldn’t be developed for various bacterium.

      • McFlock 4.1.3

        phage therapy seems to have the most blue sky potential. On the one hand it looks like something CV would come up with, but on the other hand what limited research there has been has also been quite promising for a range of conditions.

        For seventy years antibiotics have been a magic bullet that was plentiful, so the temptation was to use only the magic bullet. In 20 years it’ll be one of several tools in the box. It’s an issue, but my cynics’ handbook on crisis assessment suggests that as soon as rich white people start getting resistant strains ofr the clap, billionswill be invested in researching alternatives… 🙂

  5. Greg 5

    Have to wonder what history reveals about leaders, and why they make decisions which only possibly risk losing a election.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/11547808/Revealed-how-Tony-Blair-makes-his-millions.html

    Our political leaders are well protected by the establishment.
    And NZ has a establishment which protects elites from revealing very serious nefarious activities. despite Justice Goddard claims we have no establishment.

    • tc 5.1

      politicians are mostly managers who answer to the global elite .1% after they pledge to do their bidding they get backed and installed.

      It’s the pollies who don’t that get targeted, smeared, attacked by the msm, maligned and face constant challenges from outside and within. JC in the UK and DC here, they’ll start in on AL as the election cycle nears.

  6. ianmac 6

    The interview this Morning Guyon V English was a great interview.
    Tonight John Campbell V Paula Bennett gave a stunning example of asking the right questions and getting a great example of the Bennett worm Squirming. John tackled her at the small temporary house launch tonight.
    Para phrased:
    “John you should talk to Bill English as he is the Minister of Housing.”
    “Oh but I am talking to the Minister of Housing Paula Bennett. Now I am confused….”
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/201807992/no-dividend-from-housing-nz,-say-nats

    • Sabine 6.1

      she is vile.

      • Greg 6.1.1

        She is a Tory convert, like an ex smoker that hates other smokers, Tories hate where they came from. And they pull up the drawbridge to keep others down. Can you see her lasting a coup when Key has retired with his knighthood. She will need a electorate seat to keep getting at ballamys buffet table.

    • joe90 6.2

      like the boss, squeaks when caught

  7. ianmac 7

    What happened to all that money and all that land when National cleared “unsuitable” State Houses?

    • Greg 7.1

      notice they dont mention SOE’s or shaving playgrounds of public schools.
      When public schools cnvert to charter schools it will be a tempting to do.

      I wrote to Key and said be careful about public school land, most of it was donated by IWI for education.
      So they have first dibs,..?

  8. Graeme 8

    What’s going on here
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/81985156/decision-on-nz-super-funds-southland-farm-buyup-future-yet-to-be-made

    Are they seeing a bright future in farming, spotted a bargain, or trying to prop things up so the excreta doesn’t hit the air circulating device until very late next year…

    • Greg 8.1

      they should be buying high country hill stations, and National assets, not proxy dairy farms in the wrong location, which use precious water supplies, that we subsidize paying for in the supermarket.
      and i bet they employ immigrant labour,

      I grew up in moo moo country near Hamilton.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1

        they should be buying high country hill stations

        The hill stations should simply have had their leases cancelled and the land transferred to DoC with enough funding for them to replant back to native forestry.

        • Greg 8.1.1.1

          they should have a risk investment arm, to promote aquaculture,

          National claim that our economy is diverse, jesus where is it,
          most diversity risks are small scale,
          seaweed farming has more potential that dairy,
          reasoning = billions being lactose intolerant,

          moo cows must be milked cheaply is Nationals mantra,
          commodity prices are set n new york,
          not at the farm gate,

          can the standard show any employment costs rises on the back of export volumes, to prove trade claims are wonderful,
          Apples should be a easy study to the Aussie market,

          so it doesnt matter how hard we work to be productive,
          does it
          moo moo,

    • weka 8.2

      Interesting. I’m part way through reading this, and noted that the Federated Farmers were up to their eyeballs in it.

      Robert Muldoon telephoned David Lange when it was clear he had lost the general election.

      ”Congratulations, Mr Lange. I’ve got some bad news for you tomorrow”, the defeated prime minister said, hanging up before Mr Lange could reply.

      It was the evening of Saturday, July 14, 1984. New Zealand was standing on the edge of a precipice.

      The economic boom years of the 1950s and 1960s were long gone.

      A tightly regulated economy was failing to thrive.

      Militant trade unionists were at loggerheads with intractable employers.

      A wage and price freeze had been in place for two years in an attempt to tackle high rates of inflation and unemployment.

      The country was on the verge of defaulting on its overseas debts.

      Into this storm walked 41-year-old prime minister-elect Mr Lange.

      ”I believed in our capacity to do good,” he said of that heady time.

      Mr Lange devalued the dollar by 20%. He convened an economic summit attended by all the big players and many interest groups.

      And he worked with his cabinet to develop what, at the time of the election, was only a half-formed economic policy.

      That blueprint for the economy was not made public until Finance Minister Roger Douglas delivered the Budget, in November.

      Observing the process was Margaret Pope, Mr Lange’s speechwriter, lover and later his second wife.

      Ms Pope noted the influence of Treasury on the Labour finance minister’s increasingly right-leaning economic views.

      But Treasury advisers and Mr Douglas were not the only voices, she said in her 2011 biography.

      ”Any number of factors coloured its [Cabinet’s] decision-making – the ability and interests of its members, official advice, the advocacy of the finance ministers, the leanings of senior ministers, the prime minister’s chairmanship, the mood of the moment or the last poll result – but no outsider could accurately gauge their influence,” Ms Pope wrote.

      One influential voice she did not cite was that of big business.

      In July, within days of the election, a grouping of the country’s leading business sectors had written to the incoming prime minister with their vision for a new economic model.

      The Top Tier Group

      Assoc Prof Brian Roper knows it happened.

      In 1989, while conducting research for his PhD thesis, the University of Otago political economist was given a copy of the letter.

      It was addressed to Mr Lange and signed by the presidents of Federated Farmers, the Chambers of Commerce, the Employers Federation, the Manufacturers Federation and the Retailers Federation.

      Collectively calling themselves the ”Top Tier Group”, they advocated for a radical restructuring of New Zealand’s economy.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11672504

      • Greg 8.2.1

        i think we can call the federated farmers a union, not a federation,
        and all the others,

        i wonder if it could work in reverse for my union at work,

        my labouring wages digging in electric power cables went up by half when Muldoons wage freeze finished,
        we get 2% increase next year.

        • Graeme 8.2.1.1

          Muldoonism was a horrible thing. I was trying to start a career in construction and had 8 jobs in as many years, a couple of them PEP schemes and a couple of stints on the dole or meat hunting. By the time Muldoon got the arse I was on the dam at Clyde and an active union member until Zublins said i had t wear a white hat. I was surprised by the support for the reforms from some of the union leaders, especially Kelvin Fisher, who gave a very prescient explanation of how and why the process would unfold.

          It’s weird now talking about New Zealand’s journey to visitors at the shop and saying that we tried to deal with inflation in the early 80’s by outlawing it. And the subsidies. They think that we were always like we are now and are often quite stunned where we’ve come from.

          I don’t want to see us as a country going back to the stupid things we did in the Muldoon years. Like our taxes / savings / govt debt saving farmers and business from their stupid lemming like decisions. And that’s what our superannuation fund buying dairy farms looks like right now.

    • b waghorn 8.3

      An incoming government could turn it to a positive by turning these farms into display farms of low input ,clean green farms being farmed by young kiwis.

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    No historic title for China over South China Sea: Court

    An international tribunal has ruled China has no legal basis to claim historic rights to disputed territory in the South China Sea.

    The landmark ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague on Tuesday also said China had breached the sovereign rights of the Philippines and caused permanent damage to coral reef ecosystems.

    The ruling on Tuesday is expected to further increase tensions in the region, where China’s increased military assertiveness has spread concern among its smaller neighbours and is a point of confrontation with the United States.

    More to follow…

    Copy/pasted the whole thing.

    Now lets see how China reacts to the ruling of them trying to steal area from other nations.

    • Stuart Munro 9.1

      The problem will be the Hague has few teeth. If the US or Russia choose to involve themselves it will likely be by intruding their own anti-local-democratic influence into the area. The Philipines have been savaged for over a century now, from the US genocides to the loss of Sabah. What’s needed is an international climate that allows them to prosper in peace.

      That said, China generally avoids massive international confrontations – perhaps they will be moved to find some middle ground.

      Nothing to indicate the Hague’s position on Japan’s terra nullius claims as yet either.

  10. Greg 10

    all this hand wringing policy for the f()cking breeders,

    listen, what about the single baby boomers, n women who will be forced to live alone, build more single accommodation,

    =and when we die, students can rent it.

    why is Govt building policy ignoring us loners.

    =bury me when i have flies =:)

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