Open mike 13/07/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 13th, 2016 - 108 comments
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Step up to the mike …

108 comments on “Open mike 13/07/2016 ”

  1. Ad 1

    Bernie Sanders endorses Hillary Clinton.
    Will be very interesting to see what the agreed policy platform is.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com

  2. miravox 2

    After concerted action to remove the UK Labour party leader, Jeremy Corbyn is on the Ballot paper

    The NEC has agreed that as the incumbent leader Jeremy Corbyn will go forward onto the ballot without requiring nominations from the Parliamentary Labour Party and the European Parliamentary Labour Party.

    All other leadership candidates will require nominations from 20% of the PLP and EPLP.

    The members can only hope for a free and fair contest for leader now.

    • Peter Swift 2.1

      Looking more like an irreconcilable party split in the not so distance future which will leave once proud labour a minor hard left party and tory rule for a generation. Good one Jeremy.

      • Gangnam Style 2.1.1

        “When will people realise that democracy does not work!” – Homer Simpson

      • Paul 2.1.2

        You support people with no respect for democracy.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z6ZLs1X_9s

        • Peter Swift 2.1.2.1

          You make rash, spiteful judgements about people due to your negative, nasty personality.

          You’re better as a 6am weather girl.

          [I have been watching your commenting behaviour for a little while now. Tone it down – MS]

          • North 2.1.2.1.1

            Mirror please, mirror.

          • ianmac 2.1.2.1.3

            Peter Swift. Your words are empty and unconvincing.

          • Paul 2.1.2.1.4

            Given your choice of language in the above comment, I highly recommend you read this cartoon by Toby Morris. It is pertinent to your choice of words.

            http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-we-re-number-one

          • Peter Swift 2.1.2.1.5

            [I have been watching your commenting behaviour for a little while now. Tone it down – MS]

            Perish the thought a regular labour voter wanting a labour victory in 2017 should oppose the extreme left here with the same tenacious ferocity they exhibit when going full out to stifle dissenting voices.

            I won’t second guess your ruling, and as you’re a moderator, it would be a futile gesture anyway to try and litigate why I believe it’s not an altogether fair, balance one.

            So yeah, MS, message duly noted.

            • In Vino 2.1.2.1.5.1

              Peter Swift – I have been turned off by many of your comments. When I see your name at the top I think. ‘Oh, probably another shallow nasty ad hominem-riddled rant by an obnoxious twat.’ You created that impression in my mind.
              If you really are a ‘regular Labour voter’ I suggest you take MS very seriously. I for one would not miss you if you were banned for your silly ‘tenacious ferocity’ to date.

            • North 2.1.2.1.5.2

              Peter Swift, seems like everyone’s getting down your throat. That might be down to you being so, so, so the UK 172 Bliarites.

              Enough already with your ‘ordinary Labour voter’ wank. You appreciate that the UK 172 = the NZ Weak Man Key ? All about deficit of principle and lust for power. A shabby ‘takeover’ just as you’ve foolishly attempted on this site. As though no one would resist for God’s Sake.

              • Peter Swift

                If you can write that in proper English I may have another go at reading it, though knowing all about your typical hillbilly logic efforts, I probably won’t. 😉

                • In Vino

                  How can you have ‘another go’ at reading something which has been rewritten, and is therefore new, you silly boy? I shudder to think what you imagine proper English to be, given your far-from-proper tone and language.

                • North

                  That’s surely not your best is it Peter Pffft ?

      • miravox 2.1.3

        I didn’t see Corbyn as the one who called for a leadership battle when the Conservatives were in disarray.

        But yes, a split seems on the cards whatever happens. Possibly the natural ending for a party that can’t find its purpose.

        Here’s hoping NZ Labour has it’s finger on the pulse of the NZ workers concerns ae? That and be thankful for MMP.

      • James 2.1.4

        This is great news. It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

        If Corbyn wins (again) and that’s a big if with the unions dropping some support, it will be the death of labour in the UK. The activist base will rejoice until the elections and then discover that the general populace think Corbyns an idiot and they lose by a landslide.

        • Peter Swift 2.1.4.1

          People do seem to be mistaking the $6 temp members with the real world voters needed to win an election.

          • swordfish 2.1.4.1.1

            “People do seem to be mistaking the $6 temp members with the real world voters needed to win an election.”

            Right, well first up – let’s see how real world voters in the run-up to the 2015 Labour Leadership Election regarded the electability of each of the 4 candidates – the Left’s Corbyn, … Vs … the Soft Left’s Burnham, … Vs … the Brownite/Centrist’s Cooper and … Vs … the New Right/Blairite’s Kendall.

            …………………………………….Corbyn….Burnham….Cooper….Kendall

            Opinium 21–25 August 2015
            474 Labour voters …………… 39% ………..27% …………22% ……….. 12%
            1,711 British voters …………..26%…………18%…………13%…………….11%

            Opinium 11–14 August 2015
            499 Labour voters ………………37%…………..29%…………19%……….15%
            1,719 British voters …………….23%……………18%……….12%…………11%

            Survation 12–13 August 2015
            1,007 British residents …………28%……………25%…………15%………12%

            YouGov/London Evening Standard 10–12 August 2015
            1,153 London residents ……………46%…………….21%…………20%………..12%
            London Labour voters………………..52%……………20%…………21%………..7%

            YouGov/The Times 6–10 August 2015
            1,411 eligible voters ………………… 53%………………21%……………18%……….8%

            From the early Aug 2015 Opinium of voters …
            How likely do you think it is that Labour would win the next General Election under the following leader /
            (1) ALL Voters
            ……………………………….LIKELY……………UNLIKELY
            Corbyn………………………..36%………………..64%
            Burnham…………………….41%………………..59%
            Cooper………………………..34%………………..66%
            Kendall………………………..30%………………..70%

            (2) LABOUR voters

            ……………………………….LIKELY……………UNLIKELY
            Corbyn………………………..61%………………..39%
            Burnham…………………….66%………………..34%
            Cooper………………………..56%………………..44%
            Kendall………………………..47%………………..53%

            YouGov July 2015
            How likely do you think it is that Labour will be able to win the next General Election /
            ………………………………LIKELY……………….UNLIKELY
            .ALL VOTERS ……………..19%…………………..60%
            LABOUR VOTERS ……….38% ………………….35%

            June/July 2016

            Late June 2016 YouGov Poll of Labour members:
            If Corbyn is replaced as leader – how likely that labour will win the next Election /
            …………………………..LIKELY…………………..UNLIKELY
            ………………………………38%……………………….50%

            Recent Polls of Voters in general …

            Only 4% of voters in a recent (early July 2016) ICMPoll chose Angela Eagle as the candidate they’d prefer to take over as leader if Corbyn was forced to stand down – putting her in 5th place. (In a late June 2016 Opinium Poll, just 3% chose Eagle).

            0% said Owen Smith (despite his name being on the list of possibles).

            The Blairite Liz Kendall received a grand total of 3% and the Brownite Yvette Cooper – 6%.

            Meanwhile, a late June YouGov of voters asking who should replace Corbyn if he stood down put Cooper on 4%, Eagle on 1% and Smith, once again, on 0% – Zero, Zilch, Not a Sausage, Bugger All.

            Like it or not, British voters continue to see Labour as a dead cert to lose the next General Election regardless of leader.

            And, as you can see, the Blairite and Brownite candidates last year were considered particularly Unelectable, while the current alternatives to Corbyn clearly do not engender much enthusiasm.

            • swordfish 2.1.4.1.1.1

              In other words, there’s an enormous amount of bullshit emanating from the UK PLP Establishment (and their cheerleading fellow travellers in NZ) on Corbyn’s putative Unelectability and the notion that a change in leader will radically transform the Party’s Electoral fortunes.*

              * Putting aside the inconvenient fact that Labour has performed extremely well in By-Elections since Corbyn became leader and did better than expected in the Locals.

              • Draco T Bastard

                IMO, what would make UKLabour electable is getting rid of the old guard who just tried to backstab Corbyn and replace them with some actual Left leaning candidates.

                Same goes for NZLabour as well but, unfortunately, the RWNJs in NZLabour appear to be winning and making Labour unelectable. The 2017 election will be National’s to lose.

            • Peter Swift 2.1.4.1.1.2

              Despite your endeavours, you can’t yet show how a clamour for $6 membership equates to a similar clamour from the wider electorate to vote for UK labour, and certainly not enough for them to win a general election.

              Hence, like the wolfies on here, people do seem to be mistaking the $6 temp members with the real world voters needed to win an election.

      • framu 2.1.5

        i find this ongoing support for publicly undermining the will of the party very bizzare.

        sure some might want a different leader – no problem there – but whats the best way to go about it?

        public back stabbing or work hard from within using the party mechanisms?

        to launch a public coup attempt means you know you cant do it the proper way – no MP is worth squat when they go down that route.

        this current problem lies solely with a bunch of loudmouths who couldnt be arsed doing things properly and their actions will be what damages the party, for the simple fact of HOW theyve gone about it – not because they disagreed.

        Its a repeat of what happened to NZ labour – the MPs disrespected the party and chose to do it all in public.

    • Paul 2.2

      The Labour party executive has just handed Corbyn the leadership election on a plate
      In a secret ballot this afternoon, Labour’s National Executive Committee (NEC) voted to allow the party’s leader, Jeremy Corbyn, to go onto the leadership election ballot automatically, without the need for nominations. A move which may see his opponents go to court to fight for the leadership.
      The decision, made after more than five hours of deliberations, has prompted a furious backlash from members of the party who are against Corbyn – accusing the NEC of intentionally manipulating the party rule book to further their own interests. The vote came down 8-14 in favour of Corbyn.
      The NEC initially voted by 17-15 to make the ballot secret, and then also decided to exclude Corbyn (who is on the committee as Labour leader) from the meeting as well – although the Labour leader was given a vote.

      Read more here…..

      http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/12/breaking-labour-party-executive-just-handed-corbyn-leadership-election-plate/

      • Xanthe 2.2.1

        paul ” The vote came down 8-14 in favour of Corbyn.”

        Not true!
        The vote was 14-8 that the incumbant leader has a place on the ballot paper.

        Quite possible (probable) that many were voting on what they thought was right regardless of who

        Thats the sort of stunt we expect from “journalists” Maby we can set a higher standard here?

        • Peter Swift 2.2.1.1

          Actually it was 18-14 in the current labour leader’s favour.

          17-14 if you take Corbyn’s own vote out.

    • Kevin 2.3

      There is always a ‘however’…

      “However, in a separate decision taken after Corbyn had left the room, the NEC ruled that only those who have been members for more than six months will be allowed to vote – while new supporters will be given two days to sign up as registered supporters to vote in the race, but only if they are willing to pay £25 – far higher than the £3 fee many Corbyn backers paid in the contest last year.

      Labour’s membership has shot up to more than 500,000, according to party sources, as both Corbyn’s supporters and those who want to replace him recruit new supporters to their cause. But the introduction of the six-month cut-off point is likely to infuriate members who have joined in recent weeks with the hope of influencing the vote, and will not now be able to do so without paying an additional £25.”

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/12/jeremy-corbyn-must-be-on-labour-leadership-ballot-paper-party-rules-nec

      • miravox 2.3.1

        Christ. The unedifying tactics of a cheat.

        The thing is, the PLP may have good reason to want to move Corbyn on, but this is not the moment or the method, imo.

  3. Gosman 3

    The perfect outcome from the UK Labour party leadership race would be that Corbyn wins and then there is a split and/or a purge of anti-Cobyn MP (i.e. nearly all of them).

    • b waghorn 3.1

      The thing you right wing chaps are missing is that the anger that’s driven the rise of Sanders, the rise of Corbyn and the brexit is still there bubbling away , it might take few more years but people are getting sick of the status quo and the longer things stay the same the bigger the backlash will be when it comes.

      • Gosman 3.1.1

        The left have been banging on about that for years. Indeed it it the whole basis for Marxist theory of revolution. Every few years there is an economic downturn and lefties work themselves up like Christian fundamentalists awaiting the second coming of Jesus.

        • b waghorn 3.1.1.1

          I’m not qualified to say that what Corbyn and Sanders are pushing is right , but the levels of support they are getting is far beyond a few radical lefties.
          And it my not lead to full revolution but leaving so many people behind and feeling like they have no voice is a toxic recipe, politics has to be more about solving problems than just winning the next election.
          In my more optimistic times i think its the coming of age of a far more intelligent and open minded generation and the changing of the guard that will happen in the next 20 years will lead to the changes needed.

          • Kevin 3.1.1.1.1

            Exactly.

            Look at the concessions Sanders has been able to get for the Democratic platform for the upcoming election. If he hadn’t scared the shit out the establishment with the huge support he got from younger voters, those concessions would have never happened.

          • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.2

            Your vision of a gradual changing of the guard is very unlikely to happen. We live in revolutionary times. A few sops from Clinton and the Democratic Party aren’t going to be enough.

      • James 3.1.2

        b waghorn – yeah, nah. The likes of Corbyn are heroes to a very small minority of activist. Put him in a general election and he would be catastrophic (thus me wanting him to remain leader). It’s just that the activist can’t see past their own very biased view of the world. They are in for a shock.

        • Gangnam Style 3.1.2.1

          Ahh reverse psychology, so dastardly & cunning, those pesky kids.

          • Gosman 3.1.2.1.1

            Hardly that complex. We are quite open in our support for Corbyn. Even you have to agree that if he wins he will have to get rid of most of his MP’s as they don’t want him as leader. That will mean years of internal blood letting in Labour. Political parties that undertake internal purges don’t tend to come out very well.

        • North 3.1.2.2

          Yes Thank You God James. You have no credibility on account of your love for The Weak Man.

          I daresay you’ve already made comparative judgments as between the Waitress Assaulter and Putin and Putin is cringing in a dark corner in the Kremlin somewhere having felt the full force of your omnipresence.

          Never ceases to amaze me that people such as you actually get a buzz out of hanging around with people you don’t like.

      • Bob 3.1.3

        The thing you left wing chaps are missing is that this anger has also lead to the rise of Donald Trump and Brexit driven in part by racism http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/frenzy-hatred-brexit-racism-abuse-referendum-celebratory-lasting-damage. The backlash has the ability to push the public to both extremes of the political spectrum http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/29/media-ignores-soaring-left-wing-hate-crime-focuses-fewer-far-right-events/

        You may not like the status quo, but the grass isn’t always greener on the other side

        • Gangnam Style 3.1.3.1

          Must be our ‘little hands’.

        • miravox 3.1.3.2

          “The thing you left wing chaps are missing is that this anger has also lead to the rise of Donald Trump and Brexit driven in part by racism”

          ‘We’ lefties haven’t missed that at all Bob.

          Many (ok, practically everyone) on the left agree that the rich white leaders of these movements, Trump and Farage, have cynically run their campaigns to unleash the racism that we know is prevalent in society.

          This is one of the reasons why we’re so pissed off with you right wing chaps totally ignoring the needs of people at the bottom of the socio-economic heap.

          It’s not like the left hasn’t been banging on for years about insidious racism and the dangers of setting the those missing out on economic prosperity and social services against each other (instead of focusing their ire on those running show). But as you haven’t noticed that on this blog by now, I realise this reply is to myself.

    • Gangnam Style 3.2

      Yawnsy yawn yawn…I think the bot is in a loop.

  4. ianmac 4

    What is upsetting the usual Government supporters at the Herald. Heavens! The writer must have choked!
    “Health Minister Jonathan Coleman is being accused of “running scared” over his refusal to answer questions about the lack of funding for a life-saving infant sleeping device.

    The accusations against Coleman come as experts estimate a national roll out of the traditional bassinet would cost as little as $1.5 million….”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11673356

    • Gangnam Style 4.1

      “• The Ministry of Health ignored the recommendations of leading child death experts and at least 12 coroners over providing pepi-pods.
      • The ministry secretly tore up a $250,000 contract to fund these devices in 2012.
      • New research shows the first reduction in Maori infant death rates in 16 years is occurring in areas where district health boards are funding the pods.”

      – Wouldn’t a normal person do all that was in their power to save lives? Not Coleman it seems.

  5. Tory 5

    Jeremy Corbyn:
    “Tell me about these oppressed masses. What’s got them so
    worked up ?”

    Mr McCluskey:
    “They’re upset, sir, because they are so poor that they are
    forced to have children merely to provide a cheap alternative
    to turkey at Christmas.

  6. Jester 6

    Lost enormous amounts of respect for my homie Bernie today, cuddling up to grotesque icons of greed,war and corruption like Hillary.

    We really ought to rid ourselves of political parties, there will never be real change while we have them.

    If you go the Corbyn/Sanders route the faux left establishment will use every trick they have to destroy you even if it means destroying the party’s support base and pissing on the members wishes.

    If you go outside, try recreate a new left party like Hone, the party will say your splitting the vote and fight you harder than they fight right wingers and smear you for eternity.

    Parties are a kind of group think where on the left old and middle aged people tell people my age change we can’t ever have change or true equality because its a pipe dream so when the supposed left gets in they act identical to the right.

    One almost hopes trump wins just to spite the center right faux left geriatrics who have highjacked the left wing vote for far too long.

    Another sad day to be a young person. Giant meteorite for president 2016

    • Good comment although I could never wish for a trump win – i think the left doomers crave it because this would hasten the destruction of this civilisation. This is a sad fantasy imo – no hastening needed.

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        Trump is not the neocon pick to provoke unwinnable wars with nuclear powers China and Russia.

        • marty mars 6.1.1.1

          sure it is all clinton – trump is an innocent fighting all of the 1%ers – poor the don, just like putin, he gets bad press in the west for trying to help people – it is not fair – why can’t people see the good in these men, the decency, like overactive sweat glands, producing puddles of good values, that anyone would or should be proud to fall into.

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1

            Please, marty mars don’t embarrass yourself.

            Hillary Clinton keeps the counsel of neocons and was the senior official who championed the disastrous intervention in Libya to regime change Gaddafi. She is a warmonger and tool of the military industrial surveillance complex.

            As for gender equality, looks like the UK is going to get its second woman PM. Good for them eh, they really liked the first one.

            • marty mars 6.1.1.1.1.1

              but how long have their respective political histories and careers been? you think that doesn’t make a difference?

              you know nothing about what trump will ACTUALLY do, just what he said he’d do and he’s a big-noting, small handed liar. This is known.

              you need to get real fella – trump isn’t a good bloke – he’s a dickhead, an unknown dickhead, an unknown and dangerous dickhead – but, but he says he will play nice – nah he won’t cv, not even slightly.

    • Good comment although I could never wish for a trump win – i think the left doomers crave it because this would hasten the destruction of this civilisation. This is a sad fantasy imo – no hastening needed!

    • Andre 6.3

      While I seem to be spending way too much time trying to reassure people that a Hillary presidency won’t be that bad, I gotta admit to a huge temptation to write-in Chthulhu for president come November.

      • b waghorn 6.3.1

        the problem is that like Obamas time it wont be that good either. (i’m not sure if that’s Obamas fault though)

  7. Greg 7

    Oh look, Shewans recommendations to be implemented.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11673732

    Did John Key write the report,
    he knew excruciating details of it in question time,

    John Key isnt known for knowing the details, is he campers.

    now what about the 205 million Key wasted in April.
    how much more $ are these trusts going to cost the suffering working taxpayer.

  8. joe90 8

    Transcript of Bernie Sanders’ speech endorsig Hillary Clinton.

    Secretary Clinton has won the Democratic nominating process, and I congratulate her for that. She will be the Democratic nominee for president and I intend to do everything I can to make certain she will be the next president of the United States.

    I have come here today not to talk about the past but to focus on the future. That future will be shaped more by what happens on November 8 in voting booths across our nation than by any other event in the world. I have come here to make it as clear as possible as to why I am endorsing Hillary Clinton and why she must become our next president.

    During the last year I had the extraordinary opportunity to speak to more than 1.4 million Americans at rallies in almost every state in this country. I was also able to meet with many thousands of other people at smaller gatherings. And the profound lesson that I have learned from all of that is that this campaign is not really about Hillary Clinton, or Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders, or any other candidate who sought the presidency. This campaign is about the needs of the American people and addressing the very serious crises that we face. And there is no doubt in my mind that, as we head into November, Hillary Clinton is far and away the best candidate to do that.

    https://berniesanders.com/prepared-remarks-bernie-clinton/

  9. joe90 9

    Oh dear.

    Trump just said "who knows what went on before recorded history" – seriously, that's what he said— Michael Cohen (@speechboy71) July 13, 2016

    • miravox 9.1

      heh! Has he just dismissed the bible as a source of knowledge? That would lead to a bit of angst for his supporters 😉

  10. Draco T Bastard 10

    Honda co-develops first hybrid car motor free of heavy rare earth metals

    Honda, Japan’s third-largest automaker, said on Tuesday that its new motors used magnets developed by Daido Steel Co that do not contain dysprosium and terbium.

    This reduced the cost of producing the magnets, a key component in motors, by about 10 percent while making them nearly 8 percent lighter, Honda said.

    An interesting and probably rather important development.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      Yes somewhat interesting…except all the motor control electronics and computers will remain chocka full of rare earth minerals.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1

        Electronics don’t use a whole lot of resources and, as they get smaller, they use less to do far more.

  11. joe90 11

    Historians-Trump is bad news.

    Historians share their point of view on why Donald Trump’s campaign is so troubling from a historical perspective.

    https://www.facebook.com/historiansondonaldtrump/

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      Hi joe90, if the Deep State gets their establishment candidate Killary, you can expect the people of the USA to go even more politically extreme.

      • corokia 11.1.1

        “Killary”
        What ever anyone thinks of her, its such a childish thing to keep using that word.

        • marty mars 11.1.1.1

          yep I agree – sick of seeing that personally

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.2

          Childish? Libya was the richest most socialist country on the African continent.

          Thanks to Hillary Clinton’s backing, the country has been reduced to imploding districts of feudal Islamist warlords, with a direct death toll post NATO bombing in the tens of thousands and the indirect death toll since then due to loss of income, health and other essential services totally uncounted.

          Let alone persist rumours of the State Dept facilitating the movement of Gaddafi’s armament stocks from Libya to US supported Islamists in Syria.

          That’s why I am happy to call Clinton “Killary.”

      • te reo putake 11.1.2

        Ah, fantasy politics. Can we all play?

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.2.1

          Yes, let’s talk about the situation where Labour under Little gets over 30% in the polls next year.

          • te reo putake 11.1.2.1.1

            Your deep state of political catatonia must be a real comfort to you. Especially now that neo con stooge Bernie Sanders has been exposed for the sham candidate he always was. Thank god for the workers friends pooty poot and the Don. Say what you like about the tenets of national socialism, at least it’s an ethos. Can’t fault your commitment there, pal.

            • adam 11.1.2.1.1.1

              Have you got any proof Bernie Sanders was a neo con stooge?

              I mean as far as conspiracy theories go, that one is out there.

              Mind you, calling CV a nazi, I don’t know what to say to that that won’t get me a three month ban. So I’ll just say, sounds like another out there conspiracy theory.

              • te reo putake

                Tongue firmly in cheek, Adam. I nicked the ethos line from the Big Lebowski.

          • North 11.1.2.1.2

            CV……you need a break……have a Kit Kat.

            Unfortunately it’s no longer that simple. Your bitterness about every every every thing is more and more psychotic.

            I blame Twyford.

            • Colonial Viper 11.1.2.1.2.1

              Bitterness? Accepting political reality more like. You’ve just seen the UK Labour Party pass a rule immediately after their Leader left the room, designed to fuck him over.

              And then you get party establishment loyalists like TRP sugar coating that turd.

  12. corokia 12

    WTF can any of us here in NZ doing anything about the British Labour party or the US election?
    Sure, follow it out of interest, but there is absolutely no point in investing any emotional energy in it.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      It gives us clues as to how rotten the Labour Party franchise has become internationally. Disloyal careerist MPs scheming to do over their Leader against the express will of their general membership.

      Couldn’t happen in NZ, of course.

      • marty mars 12.1.1

        it is an egowank for those with too much time and not enough brains or emotional intelligence.

      • Chooky 12.1.2

        +100 CV…and I am afraid you are stating the obvious…this is why a million NZers don’t vote for Labour …

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