Daily review 16/05/2019

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, May 16th, 2019 - 169 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:


Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

169 comments on “Daily review 16/05/2019”

  1. A 1

    Just listened to RNZ's coverage of MSD's systemic breach of privacy.

    Particularly the disabled woman saying that she couldn't have a relationship unless her partner supported her.  This increases risk of abuse in the relationship.  She thought that that this might be a breach of her human rights…because every person deserves a loving relationship… good point.  Surely a caring government would change this? 

    • bwaghorn 1.1

      Why the fuck dont the just give people the same benefit whether they are single or not . 

      It would cost fuck all more and save huge amounts of time and lower stress levels . 

  2. A 2

    It's just so sad nobody with the clout to stop this is listening

    • JohnSelway 2.1

      Wow….we had anti-vax all over Open Mike today and now HAARP (or at least HAARP related) and chemtrails….

      The Standard is on a roll!

      (No Lprent – I wasn’t suggesting “The Standard” is a thing that posts or whatever your warning about it is supposed to mean)

    • joe90 2.2



  3. McFlock 3

    So, I've been reading "The Health of the People" by David Skegg. Basically arguing that public health has been neglected by NZ governments for decades, being sidelined by the MoH focus on personal health services.

    An interesting case study is Skegg's recollections of the creation (and quick elimination) of the Public Health Commission in the 1990s. When it started looking at alcohol and tobacco and food, nat ministers started opposing the PHC. Bill Birch telling Skegg "The Dairy Board and the Wine Institute are friends of ours; we work very closely with them." Maurice Williamson yelled expletives at Skegg. Then the nats closed down the PHC before repealing the legislation requiring the PHC to exist.

    Tory corruption is next level.


    • ianmac 3.1

      During the 90s when National was in control, the Health system was steadily underfunded. A partial charge was introduced for patients undergoing treatment. As the Hospitals began to seriously fail, talks were underway to get USA private medical providers to take over. The idea was that clearly the Public Health System was broken so we need Private Providers. 

      It nearly worked then surprise surprise during the recent reign of National, they tried again with serious underfunding. In Britain that is exactly what is happening now. Lucrative areas are now privately run to profit USA providers.

    • To be fair, if I were a cabinet minister and some quango wanted to fuck with my alcohol and dairy intake, I'd yell expletives at them too.

      • McFlock 3.2.1

        Seemed to be more the election donation intake that was the cause of the agitation. 

        • Psycho Milt

          Oh, right, of course. For a Tory, cash flow counts for more than… well, everything, really.

          • McFlock

            There are some full-on descriptions in the book. The PHC CEO gave a speech in one of the regions. The PHC chair was summoned to a minister's office after the minister had been supplied a transcript of the speech by a liquor company in Auckland and the PM had received a phone call from the liquor industry.

  4. gsays 4

    Ok, there may be a few inconsistenses in this but I have to get it out of my system.

    I am going to link bullying (in bullying free week of all times), mens behaviour and the willing lack of entertaining an idea from left field.

    I got part way Open Mike then a good old fashioned TS pile on broke out.


    " With pinkies and a full tub of lube, of course "

    " What a tit. " " vacuous twerp "

    "take a day off fuckwit"

    " same stupid fucktard decision "

    etc etc.

    then someone who should now better, you will remember them from the school ground, chipping in with wry observations, stoking the flames in case they were to die down.

    This is NOT (there you go, the beloved bold, underlined and italisized) a desire to revisit the vacination/abortion issues, it is a plea to reflect on what went on.


    No matter how you view it there was misogynist behaviour albeit perhaps unintended, there was bullying and there was a total lack of willingness to consider an idea, perhaps challenging but by no means illegitimate.

    • JohnSelway 4.1

      " there was misogynist behaviour albeit perhaps unintended "

      Can you quote this supposed misogynist behaviour?

      And if by anti-vaccination you mean “perhaps challenging but by no means illegitimate” then no, it isn’t challenging and is illegitimate.

      • greywarshark 4.1.1


        Please list your concerns.   No-one was getting bullyed.   Any appearance of standover tactics were just countering stand-over tactics.  

        Who do you think was the winner and why?

        … there was a total lack of willingness to consider an idea, perhaps challenging but by no means illegitimate.

        Do you mean illegitimate as in Alabama?   The whole thread was out of skew, so I don't know how you could consider anything of value in it after having received the knockout blow by the loudmouth, of whatever gender.


        • gsays

          " No-one was getting bullyed." Sorry mate, cant agree with you there.

          The abusive emotive language was from one side of the exchange.

          My concerns were outlined above.

          As to a 'winner', from my view, a lot of people looked like losers.


          The idea that was refused to be considered was of pro choice ONLY applying to womens reproductive rights.


        • One Two

          No-one was getting bullyed.  

          You actually initiated the pile on.

          Any appearance of standover tactics were just countering stand-over tactics.  

          Excuses and an apologist.

          Are you ok?


      • gsays 4.1.2

        Re read the thread for the mysogyny.

        Sabine telling mothers to fuck off, The Al1en's dumb twats, both are: " Further reports from Psychology Today cite that a true misogynist has disdain for women who defy their "rules."  from Psychology Today.


        "And if by anti-vaccination you mean “perhaps challenging but by no means illegitimate” then no, it isn’t challenging and is illegitimate."

        No, it is not what I mean


        • JohnSelway

          I don't think Sabine was specifically telling mothers to fuck off and only mothers.

          You're really reaching here.

          • gsays

            quite clear then, reread the thread.

            " ( i had to kick out a women with her daughter covered in pustules – but she is no longer contagious – fuck you women i don't give a shit take your kid home and stay there until she is clear or you produce a doctors certificate that she is clear now) "

            • JohnSelway

              I don't think you can call mysogyny on a single post that uses a woman as the example. Does Sabine have a history of this because using a single example wherein a woman is used does not a mysoginist make

              • gsays

                Awesome, some head pin dancing.

                • JohnSelway

                  Sorry, I just don't think that is enough to claim the whole thread is an example of misogynist behaviour.

                  I would kick out a women with her daughter covered in pustules – but she is no longer contagious – fuck you women i don't give a shit take your kid home and stay there until she is clear or you produce a doctors certificate that she is clear now.

                  And I'd kick her dumb shit husband out too

                  • gsays

                    " Sorry, I just don't think that is enough to claim the whole thread is an example of misogynist behaviour"

                    I made no such claim.

                    Apologise for not what understanding what I wrote if you feel remorseful.

                    You asked for the mysogynist behaviour, I gave you two examples.

                    Perhaps in this non bullying week it would be better to ask the husband (who, by the way, doesn’t exisit in the example) to please leave. No need to double down on the violence.

                    Edit: run out of reply buttons:
                    “I’m not sure what I should feel remorseful about…?”
                    You used the word sorry, did you not mean it?

              • Sabine

                no Sabine has her own mind, speaks it and some people take offence at that. 


                Sabine also does have very little use for group think. 


                And Sabine has told some of the posters here that she does not believe that their poo smells nice and will continue to do so. 



                • And is also a wildly unlikely target for accusations of misogyny or bullying.  I always enjoy your comments (in full awareness that the feeling may not be mutual).

        • The Al1en

          The Al1en's dumb twats, both are: " Further reports from Psychology Today cite that a true misogynist has disdain for women who defy their "rules."  from Psychology Today.

          Parents who don't vaccinate their kids are, in my opinion, dumb twats, male and female, and both make the same fucktard decision. If it’s disdain, it’s for those pro disease parents.

          There's not an ounce of misogyny anywhere in that if it applies equally to both sexes.


          • gsays

            I have learnt on TS that to use female genitalia as a term of derision is a no-no.

            More pin head dancing to come perhaps?

            • The Al1en

              Use dumb cocks, dicks, tools, love pumps, meat axes or penises, if you like. I won’t be offended.

              Careful you don’t fall off that pin head.

              • gsays

                Mate you are the only one on the dancefloor.

                • The Al1en

                  I've done none of the things you've said I've done. It's all in your imagination.

                  I'm quite happy with my conduct and foresee no blow back coming my way.
                  Is this really the hill you want to die on?

            • Gabby

              Why are you lying gsprays?

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Sabine telling mothers to fuck off

          That was truly unbelievable.

          The rest of it gsays…yes they pile on…like the bully gangs, and none of them actually bother to read or watch fully the information provided to support a point of view.  Back in the day it was considered manners to at least read what the other person has provided if one was going to argue against it.

          And actually familiarize oneself with the entire discussion before parachuting in with the derision and abuse.

          Case in point was lprent with me the other day…/open-mike-14-05-2019/#comment-1616570 when he said…

          That is just complete daft bullshit. Lying like that really doesn’t help your argument – to me it associated you with word “nutter”.

          I have no idea which disease you’re talking about. However you’re dead wrong about getting lifelong immunity from catching any disease.

          ..and even when I responded with supporting evidence about the disease which was the topic of the discussion….he offered no apology, or no hint of retraction.

          It was at that point that I realised that it was futile expecting to have anything approaching a reasoned and evidenced- based discussion about contentious issues when the Top Man sets such a standard.


          Good on you gsays for raising the issue….



          • gsays

            Yep gotta say yr exchange with lprent disappointed me too.

            I thought it got totally debunked from a cursive look at the Immunisation Advisory Centre.

            Reeked of bullying too, the power imbalance thing.

            • Rosemary McDonald

              He found my Achilles heel…I hate it when I am accused of lying.


        • Sabine

          stop right here,


           i did not 'tell mothers to fuck right off'


          i made it clear that i respected the choice of people to not vaccinate their children. 

          and then i made it clear that i would tell – in fact told a women (who may or may not be the actual mother of that child) to take the sick child – who was covered in pustules as if she was sick with mesels or chicken pox and take her out of my business and take her home – after said mother / women said "oh surely you won't mind she is not longer contagious'. 


          this is not quite 'tells mothers fuck of' 


          However i do reserve the right to tell pepole to leave my business if i believe that their actions might endanger myself, my staff or my customers. 


          but then maybe you are not interested in polite conversation, maybe you are literally just interested in creating a shit storm for shits n giggles yourself. 


          so please go find a tree, sit under it and enjoy the full moon. 


          • Rosemary McDonald

            Sabine.  Go back and read what you wrote. Maybe, since English is not your first language, you did not intend to sound as… horrible… as you did.

            Yes, you can choose who you have in your shop…it happens all the time…https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105363920/residents-weigh-in-on-auckland-cakers-refusal-to-create-cake-for-samesex-couple but you'd better be damn sure you have all the facts because, well, discrimination.

            • Sabine

              English is not my first languae its my third. correct. Now that you got that bit out of you  – do you feel better? 


              Nope, a child covered in pustules might be contagious. I actually put that think up about Mumps to simply show that you or any other non vaccinated person can be contagious without knowing, and that you don't need a lot to get a many people ill in what can be a devastating illness to some. 

              Your right to be against vaccines and to refuse them does not give you the right to endanger others. 

              I made it clear that i do not have an issue with people not vaccinating their children, but that i do not approve of them parading their sick children about town. 

              This women – if you must know, after all you seem curious and seem to read a lot that is neither said nor typed between the lines, came in to my shop – a food business that is heavily regulated – a costly thing too if you care at all, with a child covered in pustules. Poor thing might actually will have to live with facial scars for the rest of her life, but who cares , she has no rights – only her parents have right? The women says we are bored at home so i am taking her 'window shopping', and surely you don't mind she is no longer contagious. Like , wow , Lady stop right here…….


              At that point i told that women ' that i do mind indeed, take your child and leave, now. go home.  – and she did. 


              cause Fuck right there lady, you do not get to parade your sick child about town, endangering others who might don't want to get sick or have their babies – that are yet to young to get vaccinated get sick, or the people have chemo therapy (my shop is next to a clinic that offers these type of treatments and i have quite a few that come for a moment of escape and to just breathe). 

              and that is something i feel strongly about. Maybe because i have had many illnesses throughout my life, maybe because i have had friends that died of aids, have hepatitis C because past lovers did not state that they were ill, maybe just simply because i believe taht your right to choose does not over ride my right to choose. 


              and i am done with you Rosemary. Literally done. You are looking for a fight and i can't be bothered with you. 


              As before, please kindly find a tree, sit under it, and enjoy what ever you might enjoy. 




              • Paul Campbell

                Yes, people forget that before vaccinations sick kids were kept away from everyone – I was home with Rubella (German Measles) for 2-3 weeks as a kid some time in the 60s, why? because women in the community were having kids with birth defects if they were exposed, it wasn't an academic exercise, it was mums and kids at Plunket who were dealing with the fallout.

                So if you have unvaccinated kids yes you do take on the responsibility of your actions, that includes staying home with the kids for 2-3 weeks when they get ill, like my Mum had to

    • gsays 4.2

      And since we need a bit of light relief, I will see Martys Cockneys and raise him these Teesiders.


    • francesca 4.3

      I agree Gsays

      Far too much aggresssive  language .It's a real turn off and totally detracts from whatever the writer is trying to express.

      • gsays 4.3.1

        That's the bit that is really disappointing.

        For everyone that writes on this site there are _____ many folk reading.

        I saw a lot of willy waving on OM, from a couple of folk I thought higher of.


        'Anti Vaxxer' there you are, get in that box.

        My nephew is a paranoid freak railing on FB against vaccinations, still citing the debunked Wakefield autism/mmr theory.

        There are a myriad of reasons to not want to vaccinate without going near that discreddited crock.

        I was at the GPs yesty, near the end he offered me a 'flu vaccine, I told him I would rather chew tinfoil, he laughed at left it at that.


        • Rosemary McDonald

          I was at the GPs yesty, near the end he offered me a 'flu vaccine, I told him I would rather chew tinfoil, he laughed at left it at that.

          My man is in the group that has always been eligible for the free flu jab…significant physical disability, older, has undergone treatment for leukaemia etc….yet not once has he ever been offered the flu shot.  And it's not that he lives in a cage and doesn't get out much…and even after an emergency hospital visit and a trip to the GP with sinus in the last couple of weeks…he still hasn't been offered the flu jab. 

          They had to threaten the medical staff at Waikato Hospital to make them have flu shots…so many refused the free ones. Nurses, and doctors….funny that.

    • gsays: some people speak English as she is fucking spoke by good cunts.  Rather than being offended by plain English words, instead be offended by irrationalism – that's a far worse purpose for the English language to be directed to.

      • gsays 4.4.1

        Can you do that again but pretend I'm a 6 yr old?

        I kinda missed yr point.

        • Psycho Milt

          Sure – it's upwards of a decade since I've had to phrase things for a six-year-old, but why the hell not:

          Grandma doesn't like to hear you say fuck and cunt, so please don't use those words around her.  Also your teachers.  Otherwise it's all good. More important: some people claim things are true when they aren't, that's much worse than swearing and don't let them get away with it.

          • gsays

            Ta, I had the gist of it.

            The true bit is a discussion for another day.

            As an aside: I took my then 6yr old with me to stay at a mates place in Northland in his bush block. A week later we are at my mums for dinner and the young fella excused himself with " I am going for a piss', a bit taken aback I replied 'A wee son, at Nanas we go for a wee'.

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 4.5

      “take a day off fuckwit” is an invitation for a fuckwit to take a day off. 

      Thats not bullying. If it is I’ll ask all the fuckwits round here to to stop calling that fuckwit a fuckwit

  5. adam 5

    Probably the best tweet this year. Funny, poignant, and did I say funny…


  6. adam 6

    ON a more serious note. 

    Ever thought you were being played? 

    Here the wonderful Matt Taibbi with "THE TEN RULES OF HATE" 





    • francesca 6.1

      How do I delete a duplicate statement?
      Hmmm, by editing with another statement, there must be another way
      Seriously good link Adam, maybe the best I’ve ever got off this site
      Taibbi is always worth reading

    • RedLogix 6.2

      Yes. Good link and worth thinking about. The first six rules not behind the subscribe wall are:

      1. There are only two ideas … binary thinking.

      2. The two ideas are in permanent conflict … confrontation as the default

      3. Hate the people, not the systems … reduce everything to personalities

      4. Everything is someone else's fault … abdication of personal responsibility

      5. Nothing is everyone's fault … abdication of collective responsibility

      6. Root, don't think … erase the nuances and complexities with primal emotions

      We see these game rules being played out here all the time. Personally I don't mind what part of the political spectrum you occupy, what ideas you promote … what really matters is how you argue for them. Because this is the best indicator of how you would implement them if you were ever given the opportunity and power to do so.

      Or to put it another way, if you cannot argue for your position respectfully, you cannot be trusted with the power to put it into action. 

  7. greywarshark 7


    Could you give One Two a month's dropout time?   This pernicious person is destroying our ability to discuss anything without it coming back to his/her obsession.   The freedom of expression of one+ is killing off discussion amongst others.   I note so many don't come here now.  However If you think it is because of my gloomy approach, then you can let me go for a while.   Just ban me. then I can stop trying.

    By the way did any thoughts arise as to the item I wrote?

    • gsays 7.1

      Steady on grey, I have read the links that have been cited by 1 2. There is a truck load more science than has been offered up by the nay-sayers, particularly today on OM.

      If anything was being destroyed it was the position of not wanting to vacinate.

      Y'all may not agree with 1 2's position, but I am not chipper about euthanasia. I do however gain a bit of insight from reading a counter opinion.

      I felt 1 2 showed a lot of restraint today.

      Should we kick Rosemary to touch too?



      • Andre 7.1.1

        Dunno what thread you were reading, but One Two didn't put up a single link or piece of evidence on OM today that I found on a scroll-through.

        However, One Two's first comment looks very finely calculated to start a flame war, which indeed ensued.

        • gsays

          Yep, fair call Andre, about links on OM today, I was thinking of yesty's Daily Review.

          I am responding to a few different folk.

          As to starting a flame war, the language I quoted is far more inflammatory than what I read from 1 2 today.

          Joe and John in particular.

          • JohnSelway

            All I asked for was evidence and support for the argument. That's it.

            • gsays

              Here are your comments from a wee chunk of the discussion….


              "It could be applied to problematic users or trolls and allowed them to only make one edit every 30mins until the troll either got bored or stopped trolling.

              Would be handy to apply to someone like One Two"


              " Starting to get the feeling One Two is as high as he/she can count"

              " Wha wha wha. Same shit different day "

              "The bigotry and misogyny is all in your head. The insults come because you spout such nonsense before accusing other of bigotry and misogyny.

              No one has incited harm to others.

              It's all down to your mammoth persecution complex"



              • JohnSelway

                Why have you extracted my comments in isolation?

                The entire thread was a dumpster fire and this “”The bigotry and misogyny is all in your head. The insults come because you spout such nonsense before accusing other of bigotry and misogyny.” was in response to One Two specifically and repeatedly calling everyone misogynists and bigots without ever providing any reason for those claims.

                Yesterday Muttonbird, out of fucking nowhere, abused me in a thread that was over a day old for no reason and continued it while telling me to “be a big boy” and “not run to the mods”. So why me in isolation when it seems an endemic problem site wide?

                “No one has incited harm to others.” No one had yet One Two claimed people had – how is this abusive?

                “It’s all down to your mammoth persecution complex” he kept shouting at everyone else, calling them bigots when all any one wanted was him to back his fucking claims up. So it’s pretty much a persecution complex.

                Gsays – with all due respect, I have never had any reason to not give you any respect, I don’t think you are A) applying you judgement fairly and B) Idenitifying the actual issues in the thread.

                • gsays

                  Because I caught you in a lie.


                  • JohnSelway

                    Sorry, which lie was this? Really keen to hear this lie I made

                    • gsays


                      OK once more for those up the back.

                      Responding to Andre about todays OM and Andre's position of 1 2 starting a flame war, I opined that Joe and you were more inflammatory.

                      Then you @

                      I quote you, not one of the bunch is looking for evidence or support.



                    • JohnSelway

                      Sorry I am failing to see the lie


          • Andre

            What was there on yesterday's Daily Review? Didn't spot anything on a scroll through.

            Nor was there anything significant on yesterday's OM. Sure there were a bunch of unsubstantiated assertions around holistic dentistry, but that's only going to harm suckers and their wallets. It's not going to spread harm and disease throughout the community, so it's not going to get serious pushback, just a bit of snark.

          • McFlock

            A few issues turn into arguments rather than debates, for a number of reasons.

            It's usually the topics that have already been debated ad nauseum, and nothing new has been added from the start.

            Then they also tend to either directly or indirectly concern really serious, traumatic, and life -or-death matters. When each side considers the other as killing children or invoting draconian dictatorship, passions run high. So that's why people get worked up.

            But as for "bullying", I think a lot of what people call bullying is a frank reaction to abuse and cowardly implications that were delivered without expletives.

            The sort of individual who constantly accuses other commenters of not thinking very well, not understanding basic issues, or even having a guilty conscience that makes them particularly vocal about sexual assault.

            Some people regard the patois of the street as being significantly less insulting than that sort of nice-language condescension and aspersion. Regardless of how intelligent or catastrophically stupid the condescending person happens to be.

            Some commenters I genuinely try to respond to and understand, even though we disagree. The type above, though, I will happily call a "piece of shit".

            • gsays

              Passions running high is merely excusing weak unnecessarily abusive behaviour.

              It was a good old fashioned pile on with a fair swag of willy waving.


              Thanks though for not invoking the currently popular moniker anti vaxer or pro plague.

              • McFlock

                It's not just vax that we're really talking about, is it?

                Assange, 9/11, vax, abortion, all of that stuff. Same shit, different day (sometimes the same day).

                Now, on any of those topics you'll get someone like Rosemary or Weka or Milt who does actually present interesting points, and on occasion have helped me change some of my perspectives.

                But there's also always some… fucking tool who links to bullshit youtube videos, barely anything at all, or random sources they don't read or understand but has a sentence they like the sound of, reiterates the same bullshit myths every time the subject is raised, and show a basic incompetence in the area of the discussion and a failure to understand the terms they throw around with an air of authority (e.g. "free fall speed" when the debris falling into the street [i.e. outside the "footprint", which is another one] is falling more quickly than the building is collapsing).


                • gsays

                  True it ain't the vax thing that ground my gears.

                  One persons tool is anothers passionate one.

                  Getting beyond 'MY' (loving the toolbar up top) view, to a commonly held consensus is what so often holds the left back.

          • greywarshark

            If i hear anymore on anti vaccines I will scream.   I am so bloody sick of the endless backbiting about this.   Totally ineffective at coming to a conclusion.    If people come here and want to destroy the effectiveness of this blog for intelligent political discussion over a wide range of subjects that cast light on problems that will affect our future, then they should be banned.   

            Soppy kindness isn't practical.   Taking the line of 'Oh-well-ism' ie oh well he is making some good points, oh well it is unfair because it is…………..(put your favourite label about unfairness in here – suggested choices are 'racist, misogynist' sexist, ageist, mental wellnessist, disablist etc) doesn't enable discussion about important points.   

            Kindness on the blog should be between people who actually care about others as well as themselves, and want to achieve real better outcomes about the things they care about.    It should not be extended to those who just grandstand and fill up the posts with provocative questions and denials and confrontations – they are just filling in their time, the useless buggers.   When we respond we fill up our time, which is limited, and don't get onto the things we ourselves know need to be attended to if things are to improve, or just coped with better. 

            There is so much to think about, to advocate for, and such little movement from authorities, and so little time.   It is such an important and short time before climate change and /or rogue countries, trying to abandon the humane rules of integrity we have painfully built up over centuries, succeed in wiping them away by devious means.  

            That saying that John Lennon used but which apparently was initiated by an illustrator and writer Allen Saunders in 1957:

            "Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans".

            • gsays

              Can't argue with much of that Grey, only to add that kindness is most effective when extended to all, especially those who hold an opposing view to yours.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Dunno what thread you were reading, but One Two didn't put up a single link or piece of evidence on OM today that I found on a scroll-through.

          I've noticed that One Two isn't providing as many links Andre, but then again they have provided all the necessary links in the past ,if you recall…oh, that's right, you're one of the commenters that flies off the keyboard with derision and abuse without actually reading the entire article.

          I think you are scared.  You are frightened that if you pay too much mind to the papers and articles One Two and I have provided links to it might just poke a few holes in that safe and comfy wee shell you live in.

          • JohnSelway

            Rosemary, when One Two (or anyone for that matter) makes a claim, say "Drinking beer makes you blind" and you ask for a citation for that and they say "I already did last week/yesterday/in another thread" it is more than fair to ask "Can you give me that link again" and not be told "Fuck you, go find it yourself".

            That is a crude example but that is pretty much One Two's MO.

            One Two hasn’t provided anything in the way of citations for his claims so as long as he makes claims that I believe are untrue I’ll ask for evidence. That goes for anyone that makes a claim that makes me go “that sounds like bullshit, please back it up”. If you have the courage of your convictions then provide evidence for it. Just shouting about how you already have isn’t helpful to your cause

            • gsays

              And when you ask for an example and get a couple you dance on a pin, or worse, plead innocence:

              " All I asked for was evidence and support for the argument. That's it. "


              "It could be applied to problematic users or trolls and allowed them to only make one edit every 30mins until the troll either got bored or stopped trolling.

              Would be handy to apply to someone like One Two"


              " Starting to get the feeling One Two is as high as he/she can count"

              " Wha wha wha. Same shit different day "

              "The bigotry and misogyny is all in your head. The insults come because you spout such nonsense before accusing other of bigotry and misogyny.

              No one has incited harm to others.

              It's all down to your mammoth persecution complex"

            • Rosemary McDonald

              Hmmm…some folks are simply not that good at reading people are they?  There used to be an excellent wee search facility here on TS…and if one was not quite sure where a person was coming from one could go back and try to find out.

              Before launching into print.

              It might be that One Two just enjoys a good old fashioned barney and knows what will set you bully boys off.

              Or it might be that they are truly committed to the issue and is intensely frustrated at being dismissed.


              • JohnSelway

                Rosemary – if someone makes a claim it isn't my job to go search out the answer. The claimant holds full responsibility to back their claims up.

                "Go find it yourself/I answered this elsewhere" is not an answer. If you made the claim and someone asks for evidence you pony up with the evidence.

                Those are the basic rules of debate, argument, logical discourse, whatever you want to call it.

              • One Two


                The conduct of that same group of guys speaks for itself…

                I'm in no way intimidated by such actions online or in real life…but they are clearly intimidated or threatened by the links which I have been been using in response to those who trigger the vaccine threads…

                I've openly stated that I would not start the threads off…but once there is comment made , most often with a derogatory and bigoted incitement to aggression of mothers and parents, I will call it out…

                In recent times, there are links and comments which I did post, such as that around the medical journals being extensions of the pharmaceutical industry etc…

                I am committed to not having additional harm and damage pushed on those who are already discriminated against, which ever side of any discussion they are on…I would equally speak up against such conduct as seen repeatedly on here, if it were aimed at the so called pro side if harm were being incited against that group…


                • JohnSelway

                  " but they are clearly intimidated or threatened by the links which I have been been using "

                  Errr, this whole thing was about you NOT providing links. This whole fucking day I have been asking you for citations and you haven't provided one.


                  • One Two

                    I don't answer to your demands…you need to get that through your head selway…

                    What is it that you believe you're achieving in keeping up the position that you should not have to search for links which I have already posted on multiple occasions…they are on this site…

                    What do you believe you are achieving in maintaining such a transparently insincere position…

                    Are you hoping that no-one else will notice how insincere and untenable  your tactic is…doesn’t really matter…I saw it the day you arrived at this site and made a comment…

                    Let's see how many more times you can keep this going…

                    We can begin on the holistic dental discussion another time..as I can see how interested you are in that subject…

            • McFlock

              Especially when the same commenter gets pissy when they demand  "examples and citations" and you dare to only give an example.

              • One Two

                No you're using pissy as a way to make an excuse for your own, and the conduct of the other guys here.. and you continue to do it…

                I've provided countless links, including the FDA, CDC, WHO , NVIP, VAERS et al….

                None of you are interested in the data…and simply continue to demand more evidence…

                You even managed to concede when evidence showed that the varicella vaccine leads to shingles…

                As a single example…

                • JohnSelway

                  You lost all credibility with that whole "100% of vaccines failed because my sample size of 1 failed" gibberish.

                  • One Two


                    You just can't understand the simple concept, that the link Joe posted to was an advertisement for vaccine failure…

                    One vaccinated patient cohort – One patient with the mumps who was properly vaccinated

                    Perfect failure rate from the evidence J90 provided.

                    That is what is called a clue…but you don't care…that is not what you're about …. you're not interested or genuine..you're looking for an online outlet to heap your issues onto others who you see as a threat…

                    The same way you don't want to read any of the ample evidence available…

                    Your actions and comments speak to how disingenuous you are.



                    • JohnSelway

                      Same argument as “One plane crashed, therefor no planes can fly”

                      A useless vaccine which 100% vaccinated cohorts have still contacted mumps.

                      Citation needed.

                      “You’ve been explained to that the mumps vaccine is failing. “

                      Citation still needed

                    • Andre

                      One patient who was vaccinated properly, but was taking medications that are also immunosuppressive. The immunosuppressive effects of her medication rendered her vaccination status moot.

                      And yes, the quoted effectiveness of the mumps vaccinations is 88%. But even for those 12% whom the vaccine isn't fully effective, it still reduces the severity of the symptoms. So it's still a massive benefit.

                    • One Two []

                      rendered her vaccinations moot…

                      Its why immuno compromised should not be vaccinated…poor decision making..

                      Why are you still quoting stats which are flawed and faulty..

                      …it still reduces the severity of the symptoms…

                      And you're still describing vaccine failure..

                      Even if that was true..which you will have a hard time providing actual evidence for…which I already have…and the counter research..

                    • JohnSelway

                      once again One Two – your whole argument is the same as “one cars brakes failed therefore all cars are failures”

                      your argument is flawed and invalid 
                      But I’d really like to see your research. Can you show me the research that says the mumps vaccine is a 100% failure?

                    • One Two []
                      • The patient was properly vaccinated – assumption is including with MMR or similar…for mumps


                      • The vacvinated patient contracted mumps


                      • The vaccine did not protect contraction of mumps in the one person cohort

                      Therefore.. the vaccine failure in the cohort evidence by J90..thanks Joe…

                      100% failure based on provided evidenced…


                    • Andre

                      She would have been vaccinated long before developing the condition that required her to take the medication that was immunosuppressive. She didn't get a yellow fever jab for travel because of her immunosuppressed condition. It's there in the thread. Not poor decision making on her and her doctor's part.

                      Continually saying you have already provided the research and evidence doesn't mean you actually have. It's just an unsubstantiated assertion.

                      Wild mumps requires lengthy expensive hospital treatment in a substantial number of cases, and even causes some deaths. If you're calling a vaccine that prevents this nasty disease in 88% and greatly reduces the symptoms in the remaining 12% a vaccine failure, then the word failure clearly means something different to you then it does to the general public.



                    • One Two []

                      You're seriously sending more links to the CDC (who are the vaccine industry.. you don't seem to know that)…

                      Yet you denied and refused to make use of the DHHS CDC FDA VAERS reporting system data you were provided…
                      You refused to use it and provided linked excuses to the CDC no less…it’s the official CDC reporting system…

                      You begged for law suits..I gave you the DHHS NVICP data…and you dismissed it…

                      Saying that legal rulings don’t ‘prove stuff’..or some lame ass nonsense…

                      No, Andre…You're continually showing yourself as disingenuous…with every comment you post on this subject…

                      It's ok Andre…your extreme bias is necessary to support decisions that you've made…and you act accordingly…

                      It changes nothing..You're still at name caller level…and the vaccine damage and death is still out there…growing in numbers every day…

                      As are the number of those who are rejecting the industry orthodoxy…

                      [Andre made a few points and provided one link. Please stick to addressing the points made and leave out all the innuendo and baggage from previous encounters here on TS as it starts to sound like a broken record. If you don’t want to address the points made by others then please refrain from making references to previous exchanges as this not helpful in any way and only starts flame wars – Incognito]

                    • Incognito

                      See my Moderator Edit in your comment @ 10:47 pm. Thanks.

                    • One Two []

                      After days and weeks of bigoted comments (not only Andre..not Andre today) and abuse…and that's the moderated comment…

                      Incognito I see the note…but I do not agree with your comment…I do respect it though..

                      Andre has done nothing but dismiss all provided links and given farcical excuses for why he can't make use of them. ..for weeks and months…excuses and name calling…
                      The previous and ample links I’ve provided to Andre…are absolutely relevant…

                      Background and context is also important…appreciate there is no way you can cover that amount of ground…

                      I could have hardly written that response to Andre any more nicely than I did..

                      [I’m not asking for your agreement, only that you respect it. However, you’re again playing the same old record here, which suggests that you either don’t understand my Moderation note or that you simply choose to ignore it thinking that you can get away with it. As I said, address the points and if you can’t or don’t want to, please stay quiet. Context is indeed very important. So, when you address the points, please include an appropriate reference (e.g. a link; that includes links to previous comments, as you have made many here), preferably with a simple explanation as to what is in the link and how that supports your point(s). Referring to ‘bad behaviour’ by another commenter(s) is not addressing the point! – Incognito]

                    • Incognito

                      See my Moderator Edit in your comment @ 11:22 pm. Thanks.

                    • One Two []

                      I have been addressing the same points raised by Andre, for weeks now…

                      Which is why the top half of my response to him is factually relevant and context…

                      Is it ok for the same disproven and refuted comments to keep being asked…should they go unresponded to…there was nothing out of place in the top half…IMO.

                      If linking to Andres nonsense will help..ok I’ll do that to…just apply the same to others best you can.

                      You know what…I'll say the bottom half could have been left off…

                      If you're going to moderate this way…while the bigotry and outright abuse goes unchecked…that would be unfortunate…

                      As said…mods are scarce these days and lots of ground to cover…but its been feral..

                      And I'm not referring to any of my comments…

                      No games. I said I respected your first note. 

                      [Now you are arguing with me and trying to negotiate what you think you can get away with whilst that awful record is still playing. You are disrespecting my Moderation notes and testing my patience. Address the points and only the points when responding to comments. Last word – Incognito]

                    • Incognito

                      See my Moderator Edit in your comment @ 11:47 pm. Thanks.

                • McFlock

                  That's part of the issue right there: you regard an opponent admitting being wrong on a few points as some sort of victory for you on all points. Which is probably why you refuse to acknowledge any imperfection, be it as trivial as  ironised or plaguerised.

                  So any ancillary point that could be corrected in any normal conversation ends up being grasped as some sort of proof that you're operating at a "higher level", while you waste time and effort making shit up to defend your catastrophic ignorance.

                  • One Two

                    No. You have once again misinterpreted my comment and intention. The number of times I provide corrections to yourself and others here…you then simply discard it to apply twists on what is happening or said…

                    I actually appreciate that you did concede…albeit the concession was swiftly followed with more contortions…which I quite likely pointed out …again…

                    You see, I do not view anyone as an opponent that is not how I see the world…and I certainly do not need what you refer to as victory to believe in my own assertions or perspective…

                    And you're still making excuses mate…the same way you won't even back off from calling me a rape enabling shit heel.

                    Keep excusing yourself McFlock…as I have previously said…you're too invested in the decisions that you make and are blinded by completed prejudice to those decisions..

                    That is fine…but then perhaps you should consider not involving yourself..or at least stop making excuses for your own..or the conduct of those guys…


                    • JohnSelway

                      " The number of times I provide corrections to yourself and others here… "

                      No you say you do but you don't actually.

                      Still waiting….shouldn't this be easy for you?

                      A useless vaccine which 100% vaccinated cohorts have still contacted mumps.

                      Citation needed.

                      “You’ve been explained to that the mumps vaccine is failing. “

                      Citation still needed

                    • McFlock

                      Yeah, I won't apologise for calling you a rape enabling shit heel because I still feel that in that argument you were being a rape enabling shit heel.

                      But on the shingles thing, look at what you did to actually make a fair point:

                      You made a simple, clear, explicit claim; and

                      You provided a link that actually supported that claim (and linked to the primary source for that claim). Let's contrast that with:

                      Keep excusing yourself McFlock…as I have previously said…you're too invested in the decisions that you make and are blinded by completed prejudice to those decisions..

                      That's pure invention reagrding my motivations, and is frankly quite condescending and insulting. So, in the interests of responding in kind but with brevity, go fuck yourself.


                    • One Two []

                      Yeah that you won't retract was all you needed to repeat…

                      How can you back down now…you can't you won't...

                      That illustrates your motives loud and clear through our engagements regardless the topic..

                      And even with your motivation exposed…you still have said 'para phrase'…

                      'So what.. flu vax doesn't work…50/50… whatever..ill.keep getting them'…no harm no foul…you said…

                      That is your bias mate…the motivation flows from bias..

                      And again as you say…from being a dick…your words…

                      I'd suggest that you're not particularly healthy of mind or body…and that feeds your motivation…

                      Either way it is clear to me.

                      You're unhealthy.

                    • McFlock

                      And yet as you pointed out, when I'm demonstrably incorrect, I "concede" (your word).

                      Given that my impression of you being a rape enabling shit heel was the result of you guessing at the motives of other commenters, and me telling you to go fuck yourself was also the result of you pretending that you know anything about my motivations or prejudices, maybe you should stick to claims you can support rather than diagnosing folks.


                    • One Two []

                      other commentators…

                      You called me that because you didn't like having your motives being questioned…and you decided ‘I’d never been trusted’…which you can’t possibly know…

                      Nothing I said in that exchange warranted your insult…and yes I still have it…

                      Calling me what you did should not ever be something which happens…thats how bad an insult of that severity is…

                      Even if you had unequivocal evidence thats what I am or was doing..which you didn't…that is an abhorrent insult…if you actually knew anything about me…

                      Which you don't..and you shouldn't assume anything…that's something I say alot here… 

                      No need to diagnose your or anyone of those guys…

                      The comments leave little room for debate about what sits behind them…

                      [For how long are you two intending to bring up this single event? Please let it go and stick to the points in comments, not attacking each other. No more warnings – Incognito]

                    • Incognito

                      See my Moderator Edit in One Two’s comment @ 11:35 pm. Thanks.

                    • McFlock

                      [edit – argh shit, took me ages to find the thread and see where 1-2’s reading comprehension failed yet again, then post it to find a mod note lol. deleted.]

                  • Incognito

                    See my Moderator Edit in One Two’s comment @ 11:35 pm. Thanks.

                • Tuppence Shrewsbury

                  and your flawed data sources have been refuted time and time again in previous threads. Your argument has been demolished so many times yet you stick your head in the sand on the facts. Open your mind 

        • James

          Ed used to do exactly the same thing. 

    • Muttonbird 7.2

      It's you all responding which is the problem. Particularly John Selway who thinks he's the big man on campus.

      It was the same with Ed.

      • JohnSelway 7.2.1

        Hey! Muttonbird! Dropping nuggets of wisdom again I see.

        P.S. I AM a big man on campus.


        • Muttonbird

          Overweight and grumpy about it. Makes sense.

          • JohnSelway

            6' 3" and skinny but your guess was good though.
            Never give up

            • Muttonbird

              You never tire of presenting yourself as a massive success. I think there's a word for that.

              • JohnSelway

                I’m not sure how my body shape is measure of success. I didn’t do anything to make it. It just is

    • Drowsy M. Kram 7.3

      Can't stand those popular Survivor reality TV shows ("Season 38, Survivor: Edge of Extinction, premiered on February 20, 2019."), and an appeal (by grey @7) to lprent to boot One Two off for a month is too close to Survivor: Lowering the Standard, for my liking.

      I have very little time for One Two's views on vaccination, and their 'You're incapable of appreciating the evidence" is irritating (deliberately, IMHO).  Were it not for the unnecessarily confrontational 'pile-on'/'pile-up' responses, however, they might comment here maybe two or three times a day.  Guilty of letting things get too personal myself – still learning when it's best to back off.

      Also, were it not for One Two's crusade (that's a deliberate perjorative on my part – still can't resist having a go even as I pretend to be the voice of reason), Rosemary might not have posted the link to Prof. Benn's remarkable TEDx talk, and personally I'm prepared to sluice through a lot of gravel for the occasional nugget.

      Everyone will have different thresholds of tolerance for (various) alternative views, but I'm with gsays – One Two stays.  Now where did I put that immunity idol?

      • gsays 7.3.1


      • Rosemary McDonald 7.3.2


        One of the many research papers arising from the work Benn speaks about in her TED talk.

        This paper describes the tragedy that Benn speaks about with barely controlled emotion.

        Although lower mortality was expected for DTP-vaccinated children compared with the frail unvaccinated children, DTP vaccination was associated with higher mortality, particularly in girls.

        They gave a vaccine thinking to do good and many babies, especially girls, died.

        The lead on this paper is not the engaging Prof. Benn, it is this guy ( One Two linked to this yesterday)…who carries so much more gravitas than his choice of shirt might suggest.





        • One Two

          Almost an hour long.

          Data manipulation by regulators and federal agencies.

          Misadventures with the Chickenpox Vaccine


          Gary Goldman, Ph.D., presents his varicella vaccine findings and whistleblower experience as a lead research analyst in the Antelope Valley Varicella Active Surveillance Project.

          He describes how a national chickenpox vaccine program altered the epidemiology of shingles, and ways in which the CDC manipulated data to conceal the unwanted outcomes that occurred.

  8. JohnSelway 8

    Well both Daily Review and OM turned into dumpster fires today.

    What will tomorrow bring? Flat Earth perhaps? Moon Landing? The Kennedy Assassination? Dogs and Cats living together in harmony?

    The mind boggles

    • gsays 8.1

      stranger still..perhaps courtesy?

      • JohnSelway 8.1.1

        I love you.

        Does that work?

      • greywarshark 8.1.2

        gsays  I thought that you were an older person with commonsense.   We don't come here to swap courtesies or curtsies, we come here for robust discussion, and not robust obsessions.   One Two is more obsessed than is good for wide discussion, we have reacted, and there appears to be a majority of intelligent commenters who don't find One Two helpful for informed discussion.   Are you sure gsays that you really want intelligent discussion or are just here for some time-filling as a new hobby?

        • gsays

          I am old enough with enough common sense to know that what you put your attention to feds it. So these "intelligent commenters who don't find One Two helpful for informed discussion." decided conciously to throw derision and abuse (yourself included) at 1 2, thereby feeding the discussion. Rather than scrolling past.

          I reckon I have a long enough history here and you have enough nous to get a handle on my motivations.

          We can disagree and still be courteous.


    • Drowsy M. Kram 8.2

      One Two might have started the dumpster fires, but they've commented 3 times on Daily Review (whoops, 8 times now – tai ho!), whereas you've made 19 comments.

      Granted, today's OM was a different story.  One Two made ~34 comments, and garnered ~57 responses in the 'back and forth’ – 23 were yours; the remainder were shared among 10 others.

      'Pile ons', even when 'justified', ring alarm bells for me.

      • greywarshark 8.2.1

        Drowsy M Kram

        When you see a fire and don't do anything about it, are you complicit in the destruction it causes?    One should at least sound an alarm.  If the health and vitality of the blog is of interest to you, don't throw labels like 'pile ons' at someone trying to do something about misuse of freedom of speech.    One Two is someone who might like to argue about that and that would be a perfect example of how complete freedom gives the option of complete tyranny and anarchy.    This comment is good for another 200 comments I think.  

        After which the consensus would be that I should shut up, finishing with the quote from Macbeth and Shakespeare (the bold arose from the quote in https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1896522-the-tragedie-of-macbeth

        It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

        • One Two

          When you see a fire and don't do anything about it, are you complicit in the destruction it causes? 

          How are you not holding the matches?

          don't throw labels like 'pile ons' at someone trying to do something about misuse of freedom of speech

          It was indeed a pile on..again..a venomous insult and abuse filled and potentially harmful pile on …by a group of men ..numbering, however many…against myself…

          Including yourself in the group of many…

          Where was your restraint…where did you call out the others on their abuse…not once in recent weeks have you taken any such stance…

          Joe wanted to misuse FOS…I raised a valid question..you didn't like it..so what..no more excuses for yourself or the others…

          Should I not be able to respond to the aggression through my own controlled responses?
          …you have continued to seek to have my comments censored in many ways…

          Asking I be banned..then even martyring yourself (which has seen folk banned in the past)…

          And you're still doubling down making excuses for the part you played in the insults and abuse…

          That is hardly the conduct of someone with a moral position…which is exactly what you are seeking to attain through this comment I am responding to…

          Your comments have actively targeted my own..just as you are doing once again..today.

          • marty mars

            oh stfu you bullshit artist. You are one sick puppy fella. Don't try and make people feel guilty to appease your twisted fantasies. The words are all there for people to read and draw their own conclusions. There is no misunderstanding or weasel words in what people think. Move on dim – put some 5g shit up or some more dentistry – that is more your level.

            • Rosemary McDonald

              What do you care about marty mars?  What really, really grabs you where you live so deeply that you are almost compelled to speak out about it at every opportunity?

              You offer the odd comment with an attached link to a recent mainstream media article, briefly agree or disagree, then nothing…I'm left hanging waiting for you to share your thoughts and reasoning.

              But you are so, so quick with the insults and derision.

              You too have the option to simply ignore those who you disagree with.

              • marty mars

                Andre has your number and I agree with him. You let yourself down imo and even though I feel that I still wish you well. If you don't know what I write about it's because you are not reading or listening – I'm a broken record but not for you. I'm okay with that.

            • One Two

              You have unequivocally and aggressively endorsed the assertion of my comment…

              Indeed…you have illustrated the root cause.

              • marty mars

                can't hide from the truth… it is inevitable one two, already written, and you play your allotted part like a marionette, never knowing how or why you play the role assigned. a jerk here and a jerk there – ha so funny to watch the wee limbs move – that's your lesson for today – can you dig it?

        • Rosemary McDonald

          "…misuse of freedom of speech."

          There will be much discussion over the next wee while about what exactly that statement of your means.

          Disagreeing with what a particular person or group purports is not necessarily grounds for silencing or excluding those voices.

          One might argue that if a person does not agree with another poster then that person has the ability to simply ignore them.

          " When you see a fire and don't do anything about it, are you complicit in the destruction it causes?  " 

          The answer, of course, is a loud and resounding Yes!

          Some commenters here are desperate to draw attention to issues they see are of utmost importance to the health of our planet and her inhabitants and will cry Fire!!! in order to get the message out there.  Because they just might see an existential threat.

          We can all choose to hear, or ignore.

          But silence because we disagree?


          • greywarshark

            Yes Rosemary very thoughtful.   But silenced can be good when someone wants to dominate the arena.    There are a lot of problems facing us, almost overwhelming.    It is brutal to have someone come onto a blog that attempts to promote intelligent thoughtful discussion and take it over with their particular obsession which creates such emotional response that it smothers all other voices and concerns raised and it is of less interest to those who have valuable points and information and experience.

            The value of the blog is negated.   That should not be allowed to happen.    We need perhaps a Friends of Blog to protect it from such bad treatment and protect it.  And the concerns I have will increase with the ability to set up computer systems inserting contentious questions such as One Two does.  

            And I am trying to keep up with the machine culture.  How do you know you aren't talking to a Gnat robot, an ACT dancer keeping us on our mental toes, a dreaded Russian bot etc.  I thought the link below was pretty amazing.   



            • One Two

              It is brutal to have someone come onto a blog that attempts to promote intelligent thoughtful discussion

              Again you’re ignoring that the initial comments are most often posted by other commentators…go take a look at the track record..

              As recently as a few days ago ..an genuine attempt at  flame war was started by HS…

              Where were you gw?

              And you're still seeking to censor and remove anothers ability to 

              • Post comments
              • Respond to comments of others 
              • Defend ones own position to an onslaught

              You are demanding censorship when you should be demanding those who use aggression, insults and bigoted tactics which are harmful…desist..instead you join in…

              As for the Russian bots…

              Democrats in America are what you're also looking for

              Democrats fake Russian Bots

              I'm not a fox news reader..but it's a  mainstream link for you.

        • Drowsy M. Kram


          'Bullying' is one word I would choose to describe the cumulative effect of the (later) responses to One Two's OM comments yesterday.  It's entirely possible that my threshold for the detection of bullying is set too low, and it's also possible that I'm misidentifying bullying behaviour.  Nevertheless, kindly consider rereading yesterday's prolific exchanges focussing on word choices only (redact names and ignore vaccine-specific content).

          I loathe bullying behaviour (particularly when I’m the perpetrator), and reflexively (and often against my better judgement) want to support an underdog.  Yesterday's exchanges had too much of the 'pack closing in for the kill' flavour for my taste.

          Wow…One Two flamed the fuck out.

          That was….beautiful…

          You may well have been correct to appeal to lprent for the month-long banning of One Two (in order to put out the 'fire'), but that would be the easy way out and rewarding bullying behaviour, IMHO.

          • greywarshark

            I suggest that wasn't bullying to One Two – that was defensive by TS commenters who value the blog provoked to pronounce against him.   I think this was done because he has shown himself to be a two-faced, shallow BS artist pretending to discuss, but actually conducting a smart flamewar.   And I am not going to say any more about this because if it has to be explained to people commenting here, I am obviously wrong about TS being a blog of continuing value.

            By Vangie Beal In online forums and other online discussion spaces, a flame war is a series of flame posts or messages in a thread that are considered derogatory in nature or are completely off-topic. Often these flames are posted for the sole purpose of offending or upsetting other users.


            • Drowsy M. Kram

              Thanks grey.  Agree that one commenter dominating OM is far from ideal, and think that there are other (better?) ways to address that than inciting the individual to reply.

              For example, would you be upset and/or tempted to respond if someone posted this description?

              Greywarshark has shown himself to be a two-faced, shallow BS artist pretending to discuss, but actually conducting a smart flamewar.

              Can help agreeing with the writings of Vangie Beal. Always worth thinking about whether comments will offend/upset before posting.

              Often these flames are posted for the sole purpose of offending or upsetting other users.

              • greywarshark

                Yes I would be likely to respond if someone applied my description of the offender to myself.    Because I would say that evidence shows it isn't true, though occasionally I might err.  Whereupon if someone points that out to me, I will consider it and probably agree and amend my ways.   That One Two will not do.  One should not be stopped from ever criticising another because they would not like the argument to be reversed, and a reasonable criticism is worthy of a reasonable answer.

                Your comment about the description of flamewars.  How can one draw attention to one if the result is to be accused of starting a flamewar?

                'Always worth thinking about whether comments will offend/upset before posting.'

                Your attempt at putting this matter into a framework of it being a spat to be mediated away, with good manners or courtesy, is specious.    This matter is serious if there is going to be intelligent and informative discussion over a range of subjects, not just a few.   So comments might offend/upset before posting.    This isn't a gardening column, not even on Sunday.  It is about our life and how it is under attack, that is very upsetting.   We are concerned, we note and some of us want change, and talk of how, what is the best way.  This discussion won't come if people just slide away from any situation, abandoning any ideas they have to express because someone overwhelmingly displaces them with trolling or flamewar behaviour.   It is necessary to insist on limits to behaviour, yes, but the important thing is that they enable continued wide and informed discussion.

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  "Whereupon if someone points that out to me, I will consider it and probably agree and amend my ways.   That One Two will not do."

                  OK, so you've established that you're better than Two One.  Since you clearly believe that One Two will not amend their commenting style or beliefs (and, to be fair, the evidence supports you), would you care to analyse the motives of those commenters ‘piling in’ on One Two in yesterday's OM?

                  If their comments (particularly the more inflammatory ones) wouldn't/couldn't change the antagonist's behaviour/views, then why?  Could it be that some of them at least were deriving a certain "pulling the wings off a fly" satisfaction, or can you discern a more noble purpose?

                  My take on what happened yesterday – standard 'Lord of the Flies'.

                  I am interested in what One Two says, even though I don’t enjoy it.

                  • greywarshark

                    You over analyse everything.   Drowsy.   As I said before – 'that was defensive by TS commenters who value the blog provoked to pronounce against him.'.     I think we care about what we are doing more than you do.   You apparently have no strong connection to it and won't understand that it isn't some vicarious academic activity to us.   So carry on enjoying with superior intellect.

                    Gordon McLauchlan wrote about us that we are 'The Passionless People' a brief summary of which said, 'in which he called New Zealanders the living-dead, smiling zombies. It was first published in 1976….Thirty-six years later, things are worse in the Revisited version.’

                    Another kick in the pants for New Zealand's 'smiling zombies'  2012

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Thanks grey, that's helpful information – will try to shift the quantum of my analysis into your 'goldilocks zone' in future.

                      It's a given that you ("we") care more about The Standard than I do. Nevertheless, this site is important to me as a source of information (and, although I’m ashamed to admit it, entertainment), and my occasional commenting here is a mechanism to clarify my ideas on topics that I would otherwise give very little thought.  This is the only blog of any kind that I follow (should get out more smiley).

                      I remain unconvinced the best Standard defense is a 'good' offense, but that seems to be human nature in this environment.

                      And apologies for giving the impression of having a superior intellect – that might have been less misleading 20 years ago, but is sadly wide of the mark these days.

                      Last observation – One Two displays much passion for their causes. If only they cared as deeply for The Standard.

  9. millsy 9

    Bob Hawke just died, if anyone wants to know. Tributes on the usual sites.

  10. Pat 10

    yet another warning alarm that will be ignored….at some not too distant point it will be unable to be ignored so we should enjoy the bliss while we can.


    • Sabine 10.1

      i don't think they can do anything else but deny, ignore, and pretend its not that bad. 


      panic would otherwise follow and panic ain't good for profit. 


      i think it was Ben Elton who wrote in the Stark that when the Media, the polititians and the 'influencers' admitted that global warming/weather weirding/weather catastrophe is real its because they could not hide the effects of it anymore and while they pretended that it was just the beginning it was already to late to change anything about it. Thus the protagonist went somewhere bush to join some mates and drink beer in good company. I feel that. I feel that very much. 


      a lot of what this guy here writes about goes over my head but the gist is the next week some real weird weather is gonna come the US. 
      In the meant time Siberia is super hot, South of France / Italy / Greece are quite cold for the season, and i am still harvesting Tomatoes and Zuchinis and i live no where near AKL or Northland. 


      Fancy some beer? 

        • Sabine

          Prost then. Nothing much i fear we can do anymore but ride it out and plant trees. Lots and lots of trees. 

          • Pat

            yes lots of trees…and hopefully some time to go with them

            • Sabine

              gonna put in four this weekend, two for the birds two for humans. 

              lets hope they get enough time to floursih and provide food for the critters and humans. 

  11. Poission 11

    Enriched Uranium levels force school closure next to former weapons plant.

    • RedLogix 11.1

      I recall with wry amusement the automatic announcement on the short underground system in Ekaterinburg; at one point is says, in Russian, "This station children's playground, next station thermonuclear weapons plant".

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    12 hours ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    14 hours ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    15 hours ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    17 hours ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    17 hours ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    21 hours ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    1 day ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    2 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    2 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    2 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    3 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    3 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    4 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    4 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    4 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    4 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    4 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    7 days ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    7 days ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    7 days ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    1 week ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    2 weeks ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago