Daily review 19/07/2022

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, July 19th, 2022 - 53 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

53 comments on “Daily review 19/07/2022 ”

  1. arkie 1

    https://twitter.com/makeit16nz/status/1549270667845156865?

    Parliament’s 120 youth MPs have joined the call to lower the voting age to 16 years old.

    The youth MPs, part of a Youth Parliament programme held every three years, took up their seats in the House on Tuesday to question Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and her Cabinet ministers.

    Alongside a two-day schedule of debates and mock-lawmaking, the young MPs have been advocating for the ‘Make It 16’ campaign, asking lawmakers to allow 16- and 17-year-olds to vote in both local body and general elections.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129315422/youth-mps-call-on-parliament-to-lower-the-voting-age?cid=app-iPhone

    Rangatahi once again eloquently call for the lowering of the voting age to 16. As I look at state of the world and our place in it, I find it hard to see any negatives to an increase in the political franchise of our youth.

    If you agree add your name to this petition:
    https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petitions/make-the-voting-age-16

  2. Anker 2

    Just watching the tele (one news) so can't provide a link.

    A 6 bed unit in Porirua for the most psychiatric needy. Sadly they don't have enough staff to allow capacity

    • Anne 2.1

      It is the first of 18 (I think that was the number but can't vouch for that) units that have been cleared to go ahead. One other has reached the building stage but the others are still in the planning and designing stage so it could be a year or two (or three) before they are built and operational.

      There is a shortage of suitable trained staff in NZ sure, but the govt. plans to acquire the trained personnel from overseas. Presumably they will be acquired as they are needed.

      That's what I took from the TV item.

  3. weka 4

    This should be interesting. Greens AGM will vote on a remit to change how long delegates have to read and discuss any post-election coalition agreement on offer. Delegates make the decision to accept or reject agreements.

    https://twitter.com/gelukinmusic/status/1549256027245527040

  4. arkie 5

    And then there's the Peoples Inquiry into Student Wellbeing (full report pdf). While being a student is a transitory experience that is not an excuse for it to be such a struggle. Action on many of these would be welcomed by other low income households too I would imagine.

    Here are some of the key findings of the report:

    • On average, our students are spending more than 53% of their income on rent, yet many report poor living conditions. To put that in perspective,53% is massively above the Housing Affordability Index which states that people should spend no more than 30% of their income on housing.
    • 1 in 3 students regularly don’t have enough money to buy food, clothing, pay bills, get healthcare or other basics, despite 71% juggling work on top of study.
    • One in six students said their shared flat didn't meet their needs but couldn't move because rents were too high.
    • 69% reported poorer mental health throughout the pandemic
    • And taken together, the cost of living and higher education and students’ living conditions make it difficult for many students to be at their best and reach their learning potential. If students were not doing it so hard, New Zealand may benefit from better tertiary education outcomes.
    • In Vino 5.1

      This is an utterly criminal state of affairs for a country that used to have a proud record in the area of Education.

      When did this go wrong?

      To my mind, Rogernomics and all the semi-literate fools who supported it.

      Tomorrow's Schools = Educational Decline.

      Student debt = Penalty on Education

    • Sabine 5.2

      anyone can currently get a job at min wage of 21.40 (plus 8% holiday pay, plus sick leave, plus 3% min Kiwi safer employers contribution).

      any student can go and get a part time job stacking shelfs at a supermarket.

      People the world over work whilst studying.

      But, just as a disclaimer.

      Young people in NZ spend a huge amount of their income on rent. So do all other people be they students or not who rent. Hence why in NZ we have the accommodation supplement as without that many many many tenants would not be able to rent in the first place.

      Young people in NZ have not enough money to buy food, clothing, pay bills, get healthcare despite working fulltime or even two or three jobs. Hence why in NZ we have food grants, emergency grants, dental grants and so on and so forth.

      Pretty much most low income tenants would say that their flats don't meet their needs but can't move because the cost is too high.

      Pretty much most of low income tenants, beneficiaries, or those on a health related benefit will state that their mental health is poor due to stress. Pretty much most of the adults and kids currently will report a drop in mental well being throughout the pandemic

      Taken this all together, we can confidently state that students, low income workers, single parents and other care givers, are all having issues paying rent, food, utilities, doctors etc.

      Maybe it is time to tell students that life is hard sometimes – no effort no gain, no one owes them an education other then basic min required to reach High school and even then you can drop out.

      Maybe its time to tell students that the Universities are paid for by people who are janitors in their universities and the rest of the tax payers.

      Maybe it is also time to tell students that you can always get a full time job and become a part time student, or they could go into an apprentice ship.

      These same students that have ti tighten their belt during their study years will hopefully get employed by a council, government, big corps who will then have the good income to make up for three years of 'student poverty' and 'student loans'. And if that is not the case maybe they studied something that has no value?

      But these students in NZ do not have it any harder then any other worker who finds that their min wage despite all the increases will not hold up to living costs. Ditto for those that have good incomes and want to have a lifestyle still.

      Maybe we really just need to define 'student' firstly, and then decide if the change needs to come from that re-definition. No one needs to go to the Toi Ohomoi for 'kitchen skills' these could be learned in a restaurant as an apprentice. Ditto the Hairdresser, mechanic, and so on and so forth.

      • Sabine 5.2.1

        edit

        do we think that this dude here is still paying of his studentloan? and should that student loan be wiped?

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/6839032/Bogan-researcher-to-graduate-with-PhD

        When the latest batch of students graduate from Waikato University this week, an "undercover bogan" will be among them.

        At first glance, PhD graduand Dave Snell might look like all the other graduands this Thursday, but look a little closer and the dedicated bogan buff will have a couple of noticeable differences under his formal regalia.

        "Well, I am going to have to wear the goofy hat and long coat, but no doubt I'll have a metal T-shirt underneath."

        Mr Snell said he also had a Beavis and Butthead tie that he planned to pull out for the special occasion.

        The self-proclaimed bogan made global headlines in 2007 when he was awarded a taxpayer-funded doctoral scholarship worth nearly $100,000 to study the "everyday bogan's identity and community amongst heavy metal fans".

  5. weka 6

    Can someone please explain the rationale here?

    https://twitter.com/nzgreens/status/1549283705969319936

    • Nic the NZer 6.1

      Your first mistake is assuming that Nationals economic policy needs to make some kind of sense.

      • weka 6.1.1

        lol, no, never. I was hoping someone would explain how tax cuts harm attempts to address inflation.

        • Nic the NZer 6.1.1.2

          The difficulty with this subject is that people have a collection of different ideas about how inflation works anyway, but here are some typical ones.

          Now as noted in 6.1.1.1, one cause of price increases can be a bunch of corporates who decide now is a good time to put prices up because they will result in profits. This doesn't seem to be the first thing people think of when they discuss inflation but it does seem to be a significant thing happening at present.

          Now onto why tax cuts would be inflationary to the Green party. This is likely because tax cuts leave more income in the hands of the public. In fact this is true of any policy which increases a govt deficit. This provides more spending ability to the people who are left with that income which could be inflationary, especially in cases where the popularity of some goods increases much faster than supply can increase. There are certainly some goods, such as home office tech, which have suddenly come under huge increases in demand (for obvious reasons) and this may have caused those suppliers to increase their prices in response.

          Now when Nationals leader talks about inflation and wants to criticize govt spending he's probably taking this a step further and implying that most people in NZ have too much income at present. Put aside for a minute that Nationals promoted economic policy will be tax cuts (which as I said do increase income left with the public). The implication of this fact, in National party dog whistle, is that workers are costing too much and spending too much and this is the primary reason corporations have increased prices. Never mind the fact that a majority of NZers have gotten real (e.g inflation adjusted) income cuts, and having ignored this then you now have a way to criticize govt policy as being too inflationary. It aligns with enough of the general discussion about savings rates and disposable income that this will make complete sense to some supporters and even many critics won't notice its not true and will merely justify the govt policy in some way.

          Now in the most extreme case the inflation is caused by increased 'liquidity'. Liquidity means spending power and the implication of this term is that govt spending increases bank liquidity and banks then multiply up this by some multiple resulting in their maximal lending capacity, so additional govt liquidity implies increased bank lending. Once reaching that conclusion the implication which is supposed to follow is that longer term inflation adjusts to follow the expansions in lending via this process. Expansion of the liquidity is supposed to translate into inflation and supposedly the reverse too.

          There are a few reasons for doubt in this however,

          1) The way things actually work is govt spending is always borrowed back before being re-spent. The result of this voluntary policy choice regarding govt debt is that no net liquidity is being added by govt spending. What is being added is govt borrowings, rather than something a bank directly spends.

          2) Its official reserve bank policy to lend as much liquidity as needed at the OCR so that banks can always make payments. The implication of this is that banks are never liquidity constrained in how much lending they can produce anyway.

          3) Banks appear to actually assess their lending based on the borrowers ability to repay the loan, or credit worthy-ness. I've never heard of a bank saying no to a borrower because of the banks ability to pay, but you do hear about when the bank questions the borrowers ability to make the loan repayments.

          4) Even if banks did work this way (or some other way which is compatible with this such as a market between savers debtors) what does that have to do with corporate decisions to increase prices or worker decisions to push for wage increases? Most people have next to no idea about what any of the relevant variables are at present including, how much debt the govt has, how much spending the govt is doing, how much money banks owe to depositors, how much lending banks have on issue. If people don't know the value of the relevant variables does it make sense to think they are responding to them?

          However as you can understand when these ideas meet typical reporting on finance you get ideas like QE is inflationary popping up. If you want to understand how inflationary QE is just imagine a realistic analogy for it. Imagine banks stop having saving accounts and instead shift every-ones funds into a current account. The only difference is that this is happening in banks bank accounts at the central bank (where they clear payments with each other and the govt). Would that cause massive inflation? Is that clearly the cause of present inflation in NZ? and if so why have multiple countries had QE policies for a decade and only quite recently price increases.

          Anyway that's an overview of some of the thoughts floating around here.

          BTW, I totally agree with the sentiments of the Green party in that tweet. A National policy of giving out tax cuts in favour of those most easily absorbing the present price increases, over those who are already wearing real income cuts due to those price increases, is certainly unfair as a policy choice. I just don't think talking about inflation is a very coherent way to describe this as unfair.

    • Poission 6.2

      Tax cuts are inflationary,as they add to liquidity.As would an increase in benefits or student allowances (mp's councillors etc)

      • weka 6.2.1

        liquidity meaning rich people would have more money to spend?

        • Poission 6.2.1.1

          Liquidity means simply more money in circulation.Globally Central banks objective is to remove inflationary pressures from the economic system,by wealth destruction ( bringing levered positions to historical costs) such as the 100b$ valuation loss to the NZ property market.

        • Cricklewood 6.2.1.2

          It's kinda of a technical point in that you give someone on a low income $100 they spend it all.

          Give someone wealthy $100 they might spend $50 and save $50 so overall less inflationary but doesnt fix the structural problem in that inflation hurts those on the lowest incomes hardest.

      • arkie 6.2.2

        Yes but the positive effects of an increase in benefits and student allowances would be much more widespread than tax cuts for the top end. Also it is indisputable that those at the bottom end of the income range are those most suffering from the rising costs in living.

  6. joe90 7

    After a thirty year hiatus the Russification of Ukraine resumes.

    https://twitter.com/iLepikVonWiren/status/1549133629049212932

    Moscow is carrying out an intense Russification effort in occupied regions, one that appears designed to quash Ukrainians’ sense of history, nationhood and even their language. Targeting what children learn is a key strategy. Ukrainian education “must be corrected,” Russian Education Minister Sergei Kravtsov said at a June 28 meeting of President Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party.

    Yet the Kremlin’s effort extends far beyond the schools. It already has blocked Ukraine’s cellphone network and media in areas it controls, while broadcasting Russian state propaganda about its “denazification” of the country. It has torn down Ukrainian city signs and replaced them with Russian ones. And under a Putin decree, Moscow is trying to get Ukrainians throughout the country to sign up for Russian passports.

    https://archive.ph/lp2wp (wapo)

  7. Anne 8

    Yet another shit story by some 'johnny come lately' Herald journo:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pm-jacinda-ardern-photographed-maskless-with-100-plus-crowd/V4UEQFRUB5TFVF7ER4Z2IHOHQQ/

    My reaction before reading the script was: they took their masks off for 30 secs while the photographer took the photo. Sure enough that is what happened.

    Another attempt to discredit Ardern. The death by a thousand cuts syndrome.

    Edit: If you look closely you can see those in the front with their masks in their hands. When quoting Professor Baker, I bet the journo didn’t tell him they were wearing masks but took them off briefly for the photo.

    • Maurice 8.1

      It is the image that endures – the photograph is frozen in time and the explanation will be divorced from that. The image is inescapable.

      It is ALL about perception …. and the FACT that Arden et al were not wearing their masks at that moment in time and thus seen to be participating in a possible "super spreader" event involving young people ….. with no distancing.

      After all captured actions speak louder than words.

    • Molly 8.2

      Anne, like everyone in a similar situation they have a choice:

      1, Take a group photo with everyone masked, and have obscured faces (but good PR for mask compliance);

      2. Take group photo with masks off ( for facial exposure, so smiles can be seen, because effective mask wearing is an on/off construct, – who knows?).

      They chose 2. (apart from 1 lone mask-wearer) and this is a forseeable consequence.

      • Anne 8.2.1

        My complaint was more to do with the journos story which conveniently ignored one or two relevant facts.

        It is easy to say these things with the benefit of hindsight but given the 'gotcha' nature of reporting these days, the dignitaries at least should have anticipated the outcome.

        One point in their favour. Journos expect interviewees to take off their masks when they are being interviewed. And that can be up to 30 minutes, yet they kick up a fuss for 30secs. while a photo is being taken. Agreed though it was not a good look.

        • Molly 8.2.1.1

          It was a choice. Those that removed masks made that choice.

          After over two years of Covid, you'd think there would be solutions to long interviews where it is apparent separation is achieved, making masks superfluous.

          However, in every situation where exposure is present – people make a choice, and deal with the consequences.

          I don't consider it 'not a good look' – I consider it bad practice.

          • RedLogix 8.2.1.1.1

            Do you wear glasses? If so have you ever had them fog up when you put your mask on?

            • Molly 8.2.1.1.1.1

              My partner does, I no longer do.

              He has found a way to fit the mask to reduce the problem, and then takes his glasses off to wipe when needed. He wears the mask all his 9-10 hour day, and is quite active (recording 17-20k steps daily during a work initiated fitness challenge).

              How is this relevant to a photo op?

              • RedLogix

                I have worked on two sites that required fit-testing of respirators in order to go into certain areas due to dust hazards. Unless the PPE fits correctly it is useless and from experience I can tell you it is quite easy to fail the test. Beards and even quite modest facial hair will also cause a fit test to fail. (I have also done a fair bit of DIY spray painting of two pack epoxies and polyurethanes and own a bunch of 3M respirators for the purpose. )

                That fogging up of your glasses is due to the fact that the concave area between the bridge of the nose and the cheeks is the usual weak link. Unless properly trained most people will have a gap there that presents the path of lowest resistance and much of your breath will flow through it instead of the mask filter media.

                In ideal circumstances N95 masks may well be useful – but ideal most untrained people are not.

                • Molly

                  OK.

                  So do you consider mask wearing to be ineffective in terms of reducing the transmission of Covid, thereby rendering any criticism of the photo superfluous?

                  And the testing sounds interesting. How did it test for the incidence and frequency of sneezing and coughing from respiratory infections?

                  Did it consider the contamination of surfaces from the same?

                  (Note: So far avoided Covid, but did catch the one doing the rounds with sudden and violent sneezing. Would've been interesting to know the speed and distance of those droplets)

                  Extra note: Partner has reduced beard to improve fit, in line with your results.

                  • weka

                    So do you consider mask wearing to be ineffective in terms of reducing the transmission of Covid…

                    It's not. Actual science shows that reduction of airborne virus reduces transmission, by reducing exposure. This is why well fitted masks work better than ill fitted ones, but ill fitted ones work better than no mask. This is a pretty easy concept to understand, it's not all or nothing, I don't know why people are arguing against it.

                    There's a better illustration than this, but this is the one I found easily.

                    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abc6197

                    edit, source link added

                    • Rosemary McDonald

                      It would be useful to have a source for the graphic….but I'm guessing it might be fairly recent with the rise and rise of folks out there in the wild…infected but with minor or no symptoms because their wonderfully efficient 'vaccine' is (at the moment) 'working'.

                      In the olden times, and again from The Conversation (https://theconversation.com/can-surgical-masks-protect-you-from-getting-the-flu-125023) the author determined that there was dubious benefit from surgical masks. And in a study comparing surgical masks and the 'superior' N95 found that…

                      …surgical masks were as effective as N95 respirators at preventing the flu, which is to say, not all that effective because, of the 446 nurses who took part in this study, nearly one in four (24%) in the surgical mask group still got the flu as did 23% of those who wore the N95 respirator.

                      The author, a medical microbiologist (who ought to have a clue or two) points out that …

                      … given that many people describe the flu as like being hit by a truck, it is unlikely that people will be strolling around town with a mask on when they’re at their most infectious – three to four days after symptoms begin. They’ll be tucked up in bed, sweating and aching.

                      Perhaps one day we can safely ask the question if it was wise to mass 'vaccinate' with a non-sterilising product that fails to prevent infection but allows the infected to free-range in the community.

                    • Nic the NZer

                      Rosemary, you seem to be highlighting that vaccinating people has resulted in many of them getting less ill from covid. Was that intentional?

                      Anyway how is your dossier on why, when and how the protest group rejected the leadership of the Tamiti aligned FARC group, coming along? Were all looking forward to the insights gleaned herein.

                    • Rosemary McDonald

                      @ Nic the etc etc…

                      Yes. Do I have to copy and paste the quote from the medical biologist? No ? Good. I guess you haven't quite joined the dots on why a non- sterilising 'vaccine' might not be such a good idea?

                      Sure, the Pfizer product might prevent some, most perhaps, of the recipients from becoming so symptomatic that they are too ill to function normally. But this does not prevent them from being infectious.

                      Nature intends that the infectious are usually sick and therefore not out and about spreading the lurgie. I suppose this limits the spread, and in an ideal world allows a measure of herd immunity to build up in the community.

                      Old school vaccines were usually designed to prevent infection. And transmission. So properly immunised, the recipient was not going to catch the target disease or infect others.

                      The Pfizer product clearly does not prevent infection or transmission, and for Delta at least, the positive testing fully 'vaccinated' had a similar viral load as the positive testing unvaccinated. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w

                      Since the Omicron variants are better at getting around any protection from infection afforded by the Pfizer product it is not untoward to hypothesize that the situation will be at least the same.

                      In terms of protecting oneself from serious illness, hospitalisation and death then the fully 'vaccinated' and very recently boosted should be ok. I hope.

                      In terms of' vaccination imitating nature and providing community wide protection against disease transmission' then these mRNA products are a disaster. They are allowing, no, encouraging infected people to go about their busy social lives spreading joy and Te Virus wherever they go. More transmission…more mutations?

                      And as the author states…masks, even N95s, are not that effective.

                      And I'm not sure what you are on about re FRAC and his Wholiness. I mentioned a facebook thread that popped up in the early days of the Freedom Village. Like, weeks ago.

                      The general consensus was…as far as I read…that this was not the personality that was wanted to emerge as a leader/spokesman. For all the reasons that many on TS would suppose. Believe or not…the vast majority of the Freedom Villagers were not aligned closely with FRAC. It might have seemed like that to outsiders because, well, His Wholiness has set a standard of loud and in- your -face proselytising. Association, especially unsought, does not equate to collaboration or affiliation.

                      The '10 people at a table with one Nazi makes a table of 11 Nazis' does not apply here. Whether you like it or not. And it matters not, now.

                      Such a pity that no one from this Government was brave enough to go and speak with the largely moderate majority of those assembled. Perhaps with the groups supporting those seriously adversely affected by the Pfizer product?

                    • weka []

                      Link for the above diagram. I put it in the comment as well, but making sure you can see it. It’s from 2020. I’ve seen better ones more recently that give a more detailed explanation. Principle is the same, it’s about reducing the amount of virus people are exposed to, it’s not an on/off switch.

                      https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abc6197

                    • Nic the NZer

                      Thanks for the more detailed explanation, though this is already what I thought you were saying. I just didn't think it was interesting to explore that and merely asked to understand that you are saying the vaccine has had observable positive health benefits across the community (e.g as you have observed vaccinated people are getting less sick from Covid). I also agree a sterilizing vaccine would have been much better as would a sterilizing vaccine against all variants, even those unknown or even un-evolved at the time of the vaccine development.

                      As far as your claims go, if were excluding vaccination from responses and simply going with what happens naturally with the course of an infection, then its absolutely clear the outcomes are going to deteriorate. We know this from the course of the pandemic before vaccination was available when the death toll was much higher, even with less infectious variants (maybe marginally deadlier until Omicron). So you can make the argument that people are going to stay home when showing more symptoms and the pandemic will naturally sort itself out, but that's clearly not how the world actually works (even with lock-downs).

                      Its also a bit simplistic to either categorize vaccines into sterilizing or not. The actual results are that sterilizing vaccines are (and this depends on the infection and natural immune response as much as the biotech) better at preventing reproduction of an infection. The result is that people show fewer symptoms, become less sick and transmit the infection less frequently with this improved immunity. So the very lowering of symptomatic infection your observing is related to sterilizing immunity. Even though the vaccinations available don't reach a level we would characterize as population sterilizing immunity they are observed to be improvements towards that direction. Its in fact possible if the virus was still at Alpha variant we would call it sterilizing immunity because that disappeared quickly once vaccines had been widely taken up.

                      Further, just a note on viral load between vaccinated and un-vaccinated, because this is also related to the asymptomatic effects your observing. Showing the viral load is similar for peak infection just shows that the nature of transmission is not different between vaccinated and un-vaccinated. In other words if you have a person with a similar viral load cross your path then the likelihood that they infected you in crossing paths will be similar. This doesn't say anything really about how vaccination effects transmission. But people who are asymptomatic will typically be carrying a lower viral load than a counterfactual version of themselves who are going around hacking and coughing through it. This is one of the ways that the vaccination program has improved outcomes across the community (lowering transmission) and clearly you have observed that is occurring well enough. Yes, the occurrence of asymptomatic transmission (of covid and known before vaccination was ever available) does complicate the case slightly, but asymptomatic people are less infectious than highly symptomatic people.

                      This topic is expanded here, linking to the study you already linked and incorporating it. (I expect you've probably read this already).

                      https://theconversation.com/no-vaccinated-people-are-not-just-as-infectious-as-unvaccinated-people-if-they-get-covid-171302

                      As to the FARC people. Your welcome to call them Nazis if you want. I'm more interested of the people in the protest who wanted FARC out. These are also the people who the media concludes are far right (or Nazis) in saying the protest contained extreme elements. It just seems obvious that (for all his bluster) that FARC group did lead several prior protests which were not even close to setting fire to Trevors favourite slide, so I'm somewhat interested in the decision to go that way, who made it any why they said they made it.

                      A list of anti-lockdown protests, many involving FARC.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_anti-lockdown_protests_in_New_Zealand

                      I'm also going to suggest that David Seymour did meet with as many people from the protest as were harmed by the vaccine, out the back of a pub. Unfortunately anybody harmed could clearly only send their nieces nephews sisters aunts cousin along in person so everybody who was turned into a newt by the Pfizer product had some how turned back again by February. Anyway, at least one family appears to have gotten a roast lamb dinner out of Pfizer as a result, so there's always that.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Great diagram weka – clear and simple.

                      As to "why people are arguing against" the utility of masks, for many 'mask-hesitant' that's simple too (imho) – no-one tells me what to do!

                      Grattan on Friday: Albanese needs to step up (and mask up) to help create a new mindset to meet the COVID crisis [15 July 2022]

                      Some people dislike masks because of their inconvenience. One gets that.

                      But, more peculiarly, for the political right masks have become a culture war rather than a matter of effectiveness. Stephen Reicher, professor of psychology at the University of St Andrews, writing in the Guardian, argues that some who hold a certain world view see masks as “a potent symbol of control: they are muzzles”. What these people reject “is less the mask and more the political and scientific establishment that proposes it”.

                    • weka []

                      maybe. I was thinking more of the argument that it’s all or nothing. So a good fitting mask is useful, but otherwise masks aren’t. Not essentially an anti-mask position, and it simply isn’t true.

                  • RedLogix

                    If your glasses fog, then your mask is not working. Most of your respiration is passing through that gap which is the path of least resistance.

                    I really don't know what else to say. When I am spray paint I can tell instantly if I have dislodged the respirator because I can smell the solvent. But the virus gives no such warning.

                    • Incognito

                      When your mask is dislodged, is the smell as bad as having no mask at all?

                    • RedLogix []

                      A spray painting respirator has a flexible seal that fits much, much better than any paper mask I have worn.

                      To be fair I have never taken the mask right off and gotten a lungfull so I cannot compare. But even the smallest leak is instantly obvious.

              • Rosemary McDonald

                Hiya Molly. Way back when it was clear that it was possible to be infected with Te Virus via the eyes.

                2019-nCoV transmission through the ocular surface must not be ignored

                Published:February 06, 2020

                https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30313-5/fulltext

                Recent research, peer reviewed and published, indicates that mask mandates might actually increase the CFR…due to what the humble researcher calls the Foegen Effect.

                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35363218/

                Essentially, one can rebreathe the virus particles nature intends are breathed away…like any other effluent. This can make certain folks sicker.

                None of this really adds to anyone's sense of security, I get that, but mandated mass mask wearing will most likely do more harm than good.

                If one is sick…coughing, snotting, sneezing and one cannot stay home until it passes then yes…wear a mask for the very short time one needs to be out. And as RL says…it should be a good fitting mask. This should be best practice.

                And because not everyone will do this…if a person feels they are at risk from serious illness from an infection then they should wear an appropriately fitting mask when they have to go out in to crowded places.

                We need to let the young and healthy get on with their lives and build some proper immunity against this thing or there's likely real trouble up ahead.

                • Molly

                  As always, I think there's a balancing act.

                  My partners employer provides enough masks for employees to have frequent changes.

                  Transmission of Covid between team members has not occurred, although a few have had multiple infections from other sources. They run quite lean on staffing, and multiple absences on the same team are hard to cover.

                  Whether it's the nature of the working environment or the preventative measures they've employed is impossible to determine.

                  I do think there's a benefit from continuing at the moment, it's become habitual and doesn't impede delay work practices because of that.

                  • Rosemary McDonald

                    Whether it's the nature of the working environment or the preventative measures they've employed is impossible to determine.

                    They've looked into just that… https://theconversation.com/face-masks-cut-disease-spread-in-the-lab-but-have-less-impact-in-the-community-we-need-to-know-why-147912

                    The most comprehensive between-country study of masks for COVID-19 infection is a comparison of policy changes, such as social distancing, travel restrictions, and mask wearing, across 41 countries. It found introducing a mask-wearing policy had little impact, but mask policies were mostly introduced after social distancing and other measures were already in place.

                    Until we have the needed research, we should be wary about relying on masks as the mainstay for preventing community transmission. And if we want people to wear masks regularly, we might do better to target higher-risk circumstances for shorter periods. These are generally places described by “the three Cs”: crowded places, close-contact settings, and confined and enclosed spaces. These would include some workplaces and on public transport.

                    We are likely to be better off if we get high usage of fresh masks in the most risky settings, rather than moderate usage everywhere.

                    As with the near total reliance on the Pfizer product to save us all, (and that's not working out too well) my thinking is that we should see mask wearing as just one of many tools in the toolbox. All the other methods to mitigate transmission and serious illness should be universally deployed…such as avoiding crowded, shouty places, eating well, exercise in the open air (maskless) and taking the good old fashioned tried and true vitamins for immune support.

          • Robert Guyton 8.2.1.1.2

            "

            However, National's deputy leader leapt to the prime minister's defence on Breakfast on Wednesday.

            "No, look, she just took off the mask for the photo and can we give her a break for that?" Willis asked.

            "Who among us hasn't taken their mask off for a photo? I'm sure that just like me and all the others in the photo she put the mask on to walk around Parliament.

            "I think we all need to be a bit more relaxed about that."

            A spokesperson for the prime minister told Newshub Ardern had been wearing a mask for the rest of the day, but took it off briefly for the group photo at the photographer's request.

            In March, National Party leader Christopher Luxon admitted he shouldn't have been hugging and shaking hands with people at his State of the National speech."

            I guess that's because it was such a crap speech.

            ​​​​

        • Sacha 8.2.1.2

          When a leader tells the public to wear a mask, it is always going to be a story when they do not – much like David Clark going for a bike ride during lockdown.

          An ex-leader like Helen Clark calling her out for it is also a low-hanging story.

          It will pass.

    • newsense 8.3

      Don’t forget RNZ too!
      And followed up today with the honourable and relevant King Dickhead Prebble calling 3 Waters a coup.

      Masks off for a second is risky, but it’s all about grades of risk. Is it outside? Or in a well ventilated space? Is it for more than 15 minutes?
      It slightly increases the risk.

      I guess it shows that the right aren’t quite as confident in their leader so they need to run dirty politics too?

      God what a load of hooey there is in this issue’s thread.

  8. Stuart Munro 9

    The New Zealand Russian community are publishing an online paper now, and this issue includes their responses to the war in Ukraine.

    inhabitedisland1.pdf (russianforkids.co.nz)

  9. In Vino 10

    Well, not much one-sided propaganda in there, is there?

    • Stuart Munro 10.1

      No – the difference being that the authors actually know what they're talking about – it's fact based, rather than based on the political convenience of, say, a genocidal kleptocrat.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Govt wishes Special Olympics team well
    Sport and Recreation Minister Grant Robertson and Disability Issues Minister Priyanca Radhakrishnan have wished the 39-strong New Zealand Special Olympics squad heading to Berlin the best of luck. The New Zealand athletes departed for Germany today and will begin competing from next week. “The athletes heading to the Special Olympics ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • Proposed temporary change to allow mixed waste burning on East Coast rural land
    A proposed temporary law change would enable rural Hawke’s Bay and Tairāwhiti landowners dealing with masses of cyclone and flood debris to burn mixed waste so they can replant and return their land to productivity, Environment Minister David Parker said today. The proposed short-term law change would ensure that any ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Emergency Management Bill introduced
    Legislation introduced in Parliament today will ensure New Zealand’s emergency management system learns the lessons of recent and previous responses to natural disasters, including severe weather events and other emergencies. The Emergency Management Bill replaces the two decades old Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002. “The strength of our emergency ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • New Zealand Fiji reaffirm close relationship
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins and Prime Minister Sitiveni Rabuka met in Wellington this morning, reaffirming the strength and spirit of New Zealand and Fiji’s relationship, as outlined in the Duavata Relationship Statement of Partnership. “New Zealand and Fiji are connected by a kinship forged in Pacific culture, identity and interests, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Primary teachers' top base salary step to rise to $100,000
    Primary teachers have agreed to the Government’s pay offer which will see the top base salary step rise to $100,000 by December next year. The settlement will also see a number of improvements to primary teachers’ conditions, including more than double the classroom release time they currently have to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • SH25A Bridge construction to get underway in next fortnight
    Associate Transport Minister Kiri Allan has announced the construction plan for the bridge on State Highway 25A that will reconnect the Coromandel peninsula, bringing more certainty to the region’s recovery efforts. “The Government is committed to reconnecting Coromandel communities quickly, and this plan to repair the damage along the highway ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Speech to the Seafood Sustainability Awards 2023
    Tena koutou katoa and welcome to Parliament. It is a great pleasure for me to host you here today, for the second New Zealand Seafood Sustainability Awards. The awards started in 2020 and officially, are to be held every two years. But as with so many things, COVID got in the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Equal gender representation on public sector boards for third year in a row
    Representation for women on public sector boards and committees is the highest it’s ever been with wāhine now making up 53.1 percent of public board and committee members,” Minister for Women Jan Tinetti said. Manatū Wāhine Ministry for Women’s 2022 stocktake of public sector boards and committees shows for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • New law passes on child support to sole parents
    A new law enabling sole parents on a benefit to receive child support payments for their tamariki was passed in Parliament today. “This change is estimated to lift as many as 14,000 children out of poverty and give families a median of $20 extra a week,” said Social Development and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New moves to curb youth vaping
    Crack down on disposable vapes   No new vape shops near schools or marae Restricted descriptions for product flavours The Government is taking action to reduce the number of young people taking up vaping, Health Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall has announced. “Too many young people are vaping, which is why we’re ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Fiji Prime Minister Rabuka to visit New Zealand
    Fiji Prime Minister Sitiveni Rabuka will visit New Zealand this week, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. “Prime Minister Rabuka officially visited New Zealand in 1998, over 25 years ago, and we look forward to welcoming him here once again,” Chris Hipkins said.  “New Zealand and Fiji have a long ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Sports stars and administrators honoured
    The King’s Birthday and Coronation Honours List 2023 includes sporting stars and administrators who reflect the best of New Zealand’s sporting community. Sir Wayne Smith has been knighted for services to rugby. Sir Wayne was Assistant Coach of the All Blacks at the 2011 and 2015 Rugby World Cups and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Kapa Haka rangatira amongst those honoured on King’s Birthday
    Ehara taku toa i te toa takitahi, engari he toa taki tini ‘My success is not mine alone, but that of the people” The King’s Birthday and Coronation Honours list 2023 celebrates Māori from all walks of life, reflecting the achievements of those who have made a significant contribution to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • King’s Birthday Honours recognise strength of service to NZ
    The strength and diversity of service in New Zealand is a standout feature of today’s King’s Birthday and Coronation Honours list, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins said. “Each of today’s 182 recipients has contributed individually to our country. Viewed collectively, their efforts reflect an overwhelming commitment to service.” Chris Hipkins said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Closer defence cooperation between New Zealand and Japan
    The Defence Ministers of New Zealand and Japan have signed a statement of intent for closer defence cooperation between the two Pacific regional partners. Andrew Little and H. E. Yasukazu Hamada met to sign the ‘Statement of Intent on Defence Cooperation in Maritime Security, Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • SPEECH: To the IISS Shangri-La Dialogue 2023 by the Honourable Andrew Little MP, New Zealand Ministe...
    New Zealand’s most recent defence assessment identified climate change and geostrategic competition as the two greatest security challenges to our place in the South Pacific. To the first issue, partners engaging and re-engaging with Pacific Island Countries are finding that climate change is a security and existential threat in our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt supporting more rangatahi into training and employment opportunities
    The government is continuing to support rangatahi in providing more funding into Maori Trades training and new He Poutama Rangatahi programmes across Aotearoa. “We’re backing 30 new by Māori for Māori Kaupapa employment and training programmes, which will help iwi into sustainable employment or progress within their chosen careers” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Energy self-sufficient marae reopens with support of Government investment
    Murihiku Marae was officially reopened today, setting a gold standard in sustainable building practices as well as social outcomes for the people of Waihōpai Invercargill, Regional Development Minister Kiri Allan says. “The marae has been a central hub for this community since the 1980’s. With the support of $9.65 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • First major Whangārei public housing project in a generation complete
    The first major public housing development in Whangārei for decades has reached completion, with 37 new homes opened in the suburb of Maunu today. The project on Tapatahi Crescent and Puriri Park Road, consists of 15 one-bedroom, 4 two-bedroom, 7 three-bedroom, 8 four-bedroom and 3 five-bedroom homes, as well as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Trade Minister to represent New Zealand trade interests abroad
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damen O’Connor will depart tomorrow for London to represent New Zealand at the Commonwealth Trade Ministers’ Meeting and then to Paris to vice-chair the OECD Ministerial Council Meeting. “My travel to the United Kingdom is well-timed, with the United Kingdom Free Trade Agreement (UK FTA) ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Bill to boost national fuel resiliency introduced
    The Fuel Industry (Improving Fuel Resilience) Amendment Bill would: boost New Zealand’s fuel supply resilience and economic security enable the minimum stockholding obligation regulations to be adapted as the energy and transport environment evolves. “Last November, I announced a six-point plan to improve the resiliency of our fuel supply from ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Faster ACC payment top-ups and fairer system
    The Government is making sure those on low incomes will no longer have to wait five weeks to get the minimum weekly rate of ACC, and improving the data collected to make the system fairer, Minister for ACC Peeni Henare said today.  The Accident Compensation (Access Reporting and Other Matters) ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Compulsory code of conduct for school boards introduced
    A compulsory code of conduct will ensure school board members are crystal clear on their responsibilities and expected standard of behaviour, Minister of Education Jan Tinetti said. It’s the first time a compulsory code of conduct has been published for state and state-integrated school boards and comes into effect on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Federation of Commercial Fishermen annual conference.
    Tena koutou katoa and thank you, Mayor Nadine Taylor, for your welcome to Marlborough. Thanks also Doug Saunders-Loder and all of you for inviting me to your annual conference. As you might know, I’m quite new to this job – and I’m particularly pleased that the first organisation I’m giving a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt to support councils with buyout and better protection of cyclone and flood affected properties
    The Government will enter into a funding arrangement with councils in cyclone and flood affected regions to support them to offer a voluntary buyout for owners of Category 3 designated residential properties. It will also co-fund work needed to protect Category 2 designated properties. “From the beginning of this process ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government delivers changes to reduce pokies harm
    The Government has announced changes to strengthen requirements in venues with pokie (gambling) machines will come into effect from 15 June. “Pokies are one of the most harmful forms of gambling. They can have a detrimental impact on individuals, their friends, whānau and communities,” Internal Affairs Minister Barbara Edmonds said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government delivers 1800 additional frontline Police
    The total Police workforce is now the largest it has ever been. Police constabulary stands at 10,700 officers – an increase of 21% since 2017 Māori officers have increased 40%, Pasifika 83%, Asian 157%, Women 61% Every district has got more Police under this Government The Government has delivered on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Minister Mahuta talks Pacific ambitions at the first Korea-Pacific Leaders’ summit
    Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon Nanaia Mahuta met with Korea President Yoon, as well as Pacific Islands Forum Secretary General Henry Puna, during her recent visit to Korea.  “It was an honour to represent Aotearoa New Zealand at the first Korea – Pacific Leaders’ Summit. We discussed Pacific ambitions under the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government drives $2 billion of business research and development
    The Government’s Research and Development Tax Incentive has supported more than $2 billion of New Zealand business innovation – an increase of around $1 billion in less than nine months. "Research and innovation are essential in helping us meet the biggest challenges and seize opportunities facing New Zealand. It’s fantastic ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Achieving lift off: National Space Policy launched
    The next ‘giant leap’ in New Zealand’s space journey has been taken today with the launch of the National Space Policy, Economic Development Minister Barbara Edmonds announced. “Our space sector is growing rapidly. Each year New Zealand is becoming a more and more attractive place for launches, manufacturing space-related technology ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New science and creative technologies wharekura announced
    A new Year 7-13 designated character wharekura will be built in Pāpāmoa, Associate Minister of Education Kelvin Davis has announced. The wharekura will focus on science, mathematics and creative technologies while connecting ākonga to the whakapapa of the area. The decision follows an application by the Ngā Pōtiki ā Tamapahore ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Freedom Camping changes a win for the environment
    Protecting the environment by establishing a stronger, more consistent system for freedom camping Supporting councils to better manage freedom camping in their region and reduce the financial and social impacts on communities Ensuring that self-contained vehicle owners have time to prepare for the new system   The Self-Contained Motor Vehicle ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speeding up the family court, reducing stress on families
    A new law passed last night could see up to 25 percent of Family Court judges’ workload freed up in order to reduce delays, Minister of Justice Kiri Allan said. The Family Court (Family Court Associates) Legislation Bill will establish a new role known as the Family Court Associate. The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • UK FTA delivers benefits from today
    New Zealand businesses will begin reaping the rewards of our gold-standard free trade agreement with the United Kingdom (UK FTA) from today.  “The New Zealand UK FTA enters into force from today, and is one of the seven new or upgraded Free Trade Agreements negotiated by Labour to date,” Prime ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Next steps to reform outdated surrogacy law
    The Government will reform outdated surrogacy laws to improve the experiences of children, surrogates, and the growing number of families formed through surrogacy, by adopting Labour MP Tāmati Coffey’s Member’s Bill as a Government Bill, Minister Kiri Allan has announced. “Surrogacy has become an established method of forming a family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Defence Minister to attend Shangri-La Dialogue
    Defence Minister Andrew Little departs for Singapore tomorrow to attend the 20th annual Shangri-La Dialogue for Defence Ministers from the Indo-Pacific region. “Shangri-La brings together many countries to speak frankly and express views about defence issues that could affect us all,” Andrew Little said. “New Zealand is a long-standing participant ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand–China science relationship affirmed
    Research, Science and Innovation Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall and the Chinese Minister of Science and Technology Wang Zhigang met in Wellington today and affirmed the two countries’ long-standing science relationship. Minister Wang was in New Zealand for the 6th New Zealand-China Joint Commission Meeting on Science and Technology Cooperation. Following ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Supporting a strong future for screen sector
    5 percent uplift clearer and simpler to navigate  Domestic productions can access more funding sources 20 percent rebate confirmed for post-production, digital and visual effects Qualifying expenditure for post-production, digital and visual effects rebate dropped to $250,000 to encourage more smaller productions The Government is making it easier for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister Sepuloni to attend 61st Anniversary of Samoa’s Independence
    Deputy Prime Minister and Associate Minister of Foreign Affairs (Pacific Region) Carmel Sepuloni will represent New Zealand at Samoa’s 61st Anniversary of Independence commemorations in Apia. “Aotearoa New Zealand is pleased to share in this significant occasion, alongside other invited Pacific leaders, and congratulates Samoa on the milestone of 61 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt backs retailers with expansion of fog cannon programme
    The Government is continuing to support retailers with additional funding for the highly popular Fog Cannon Subsidy Scheme, Police and Small Business Minister Ginny Andersen announced today.  “The Government is committed to improving retailers’ safety,” Ginny Andersen said.  “I’ve seen first-hand the difference fog cannons are making. Not only do ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2023-06-07T04:46:28+00:00