Daily review 27/05/2019

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, May 27th, 2019 - 76 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

 

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

76 comments on “Daily review 27/05/2019”

  1. CHCoff 1

    Looks like the voters delivered a sensible result, largely ignoring the more radical hype while sensing/going for the need of an general progressive OS Update with the EU.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-26/europe-s-mainstream-holds-as-populists-fail-to-break-through

    https://www.ft.com/content/9733a232-7fe1-11e9-b592-5fe435b57a3b

  2. BM 2

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12234808

    I hope Mallard gets done for this.

    What a sociopathic arsehole.

    • The Al1en 2.1

      Yeah, 'cause alleged sexual predators and rapists always admit their guilt 🙄

      • BM 2.1.1

        Read the article.

        • The Al1en 2.1.1.1

          I did, earlier on, and thought 'well he would say that, wouldn't he?'

          If he's innocent, it'll all come out and you may get your duck trophy, but I'm hardly gonna take the word of the accused in a report by Soper as gospel.

          • BM 2.1.1.1.1

            The guy has already been investigated and the allegations were dismissed.

            For Mallard to call a hug rape is just insanity and just shows how fucked up everything has become.

            Hope he's sued and taken to the cleaners.

             

             

            • The Al1en 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Well let us see how it plays out, you may yet be correct, but it is odd how this alleged sexual predator/rapist, with the political connection, gets an interview printed in the herald telling their side of the story. Can't say I've seen that happen before. Is it unprecedented?

              • Muttonbird

                Probably personally known to Soper and the article reeked of the 'boys will be boys' excuse.

                Men like that just can't understand why women don't like a hug from behind with extra penis.

            • McFlock 2.1.1.1.1.2

              If the guy's version is the full and unedited story, then it's personal greivance time for him.

              But three formal complaints for being "old fashioned"? If you have to be told three times that your intimate space compass is broken, you aren't learning.

              • BM

                None of this makes him a rapist though.

                A hug, a peck on the cheek, a compliment.

                Come on people get a bit of fucking perspective, thank fuck I don't work in an office and especially I don't work in a Wellington public service office, Christ what a horrible working environment.

                 

                 

                • McFlock

                  None of this, being an uncritical portrayal of only his version of events, supported by documentation he supplied, makes him a rapist

                  Fixed it for you.

                  • Sam

                    Your mixed review belongs in a high school drama class. People will spend 8 hours a day at work. This old notion that you shouldn't date co-workers was always a ploy to make people work overtime. Of course people should date co-workers. For most people they may not even get a chance to meet and get to know anyone else properly. So go for it I say. Young, viral people struck by the opposite sex shouldn't advice from bitter old spinster veterans. 

                     

                    • McFlock

                      Who is talking about dating? That's consensual. At the very least what has been complained about was unwanted intimacy that creeped out the recipient. And that's by the dude's version of events. We didn't hear the other side, other than what Mallard said. The two do not seem to be equivalent, but neither side is talking about colleagues "dating".

                       

                    • Sam

                      then define flirting 

                    • McFlock

                      Flirting: Verb. Something not relevant to this thread, nor contained in the linked article.

                      Example:

                      The discussion so far is whether an unwanted hug, if that's all that was done, constitutes a serious sexual assault or even rape. But for some reason Sam wants to know what "flirting" means.

                    • Sam

                      Then any guy admitting to risky sexual advances should not fear rape allegations unless you can define what flirting is or is not.

                    • McFlock

                      This guy isn't admitting to sexual advances of any sort. He says it's three misunderstandings.
                      Your comments have nothing to do with the situation in question.

                    • Sam

                      This is crazy. You're quick to disregard flirtatious behaviour and quicker again to nitpick. 

                    • McFlock

                      Did you even read the article or the thread? The only one to say anything was meant to be flirtatious is you.

                      He said it was an innocent hug in celebration. Not flirting. That he wasn't looking at boobs when he complimented a hairstyle. That the kiss was an innocent peck on the cheek after a visit to his home.

                      Flirtation doesn't come into any of that in anyone's imagination but yours.

                    • Sam

                      youre crazy

                    • Muttonbird

                      He's crazy?

                    • Sam

                      Yeah, McFlock (lol) is crazed. He produced a mixed review and you've got to ask why he does that. This can't be allowed to be the public dialogue. What we are doing is we are going to get pushed back by the establishment and attack for wanting change whether it's financially or politically or morally but we've got to carry on.

                      Some one like me shouldn't need monitoring, if you look at what I want politically it's not very controversial. What was supposed to happen post John Key was some kind of neoliberal revolution and all McFlock and people like him is doing, I mean why is McFlock being so radical and what is making him so woke and it is the commercial media. 

                      The commercial media is deliberately misrepresenting and deliberately coming along and imagine you're reading the paper and suddenly here's some one you don't know saying you should hate them or love them and that's effectively what the commercial media is doing. And no one should buy into it and as sone as I challenge anyone on a commercial media topic they can't find what Iv said, why Iv said it, what the context was and it all just melts away a week or 2 later when everything has blown over like nothing ever happened. And that's crazy.

                      And everyone understands that woke people like McFlock are these sorts of moral busybodies that feel the need to come over and give you a piece of there mind because they are offended. That kind of tyranny is the sort of political correctness that has to stop, we have to be able to have these tough conversations because these problems are growing like a cancer in our society like, Rapists don't Spring out of parliament fully formed. That's just a ridiculous result of a long process of injustice to get to the point of a serial rapist and we see with McFlock that he is lashing out because the evidence of a long drawn out process of a serial rapist just doesn't exists.

                      And so you've got to just take the bullets and grenades and keep going and I'll keep making my little quips Y'know I'm not going to quit because we've got to keep going.   

                    • RedLogix

                      @ Sam

                      From an evolutionary perspective females generally adopt a passive sexual strategy; they typically put most of their effort into making themselves appear attractive in order to gain the attention of the most desirable males. The core problem is that it also attracts attention from unwanted males.

                      The problem for males is that unless they initiate some sexual attention, they cannot test whether the attention is unwanted or not.

                      Societies have solved this problem in various ways; one traditional approach is to segregate the two sexes, another was various forms of courtship rituals and flirtation that placed clear expectations and boundaries on what was acceptable. The general process would be; women would attract, males initiate attention, females select and then males commit.

                      In addition the relative high biological cost of sex for women meant that traditionally there were strong constraints on female sexual freedom and a strong emotional aversion to unwanted sex. This is why rape was usually considered a crime only somewhat less serious than murder. But in the past 50 years the availability of reliable contraception means that the biological cost of sex for women is now a lot different to that of men, at the same time their evolved emotional aversion remains unchanged.

                      Socially this has resulted in a very mixed message; on one hand casual sex is now very commonplace and in particular female sexual freedom has been hugely expanded. At the same time the very high female emotional response to unwanted sex has been unmoored from the biological act of vaginal intercourse and extended to virtually any male sexual attention that is deemed unworthy.

                      In essence this means that any male attention that a woman does not want or later regrets now falls under this extended definition of 'rape'. It may not look like the old world idea of a violent physical coercion, rather what matters now is how the woman feels about what happened.

                      Under this greatly expanded definition all male sexual attention is now potentially rape. Which is why any flirtation, touching or a hug is now a criminal act unless the female first signs a legal document of some kind authorising it. While female sexual freedom is promoted, celebrated and expanded at every opportunity, the opposite is happening to all expressions of male sexuality. 

                      In particular this can be seen where anything any women says about any sexual encounter must be intrinsically believed, while anything a male says is always the lies of a self-serving predator. We see this dynamic playing out even on this very thread.

                    • McFlock

                      Holy shit do you two have the wrong end of the stick.

                       

                    • RedLogix

                      @ McF

                      At the very least what has been complained about was unwanted intimacy that creeped out the recipient.

                      I make a coherent case of why both you and Mallard may well be correct in the current social context … and you're still not happy?

                      This may be the reason why aliens don't talk to us. devil

                    • Sam

                      @Redlogix

                      Well I don't think it is wise to select a mate based on how they would satisfy specific traits of ones personality and preferences. My theory is that the perfect mate doesn't exist, at least Iv never seen a perfect relationship in real life. 

                      Just arousing the thought of a sexual act, it could be a carton character, everyone is well aware that a cartoon character are not real, but non the less just arousing the fantasy of a sexual act in males and then utterly rejecting that act results in utter psychological devastation. This may be anecdotal because I am speaking from experience. Never the less cases of mental rejection can be worse than physical rejection or fighting. 

                      In away we don't quite appreciate the logic of humiliation and rejection. The point is not to be brutal but to be perfectly brutal an honest the point is in away, that him NOT raping her or even making love to her, not doing it makes the humiliation even worse. 

                      In my experience of woman who have been raped it is the strong independent woman that take it the hardest. Some woman just find it unbearable to live with the pain. The pain seems to manifest in reality and I am talking about specific woman that I have worked with in the past who was prevented from working in specific situations and I would have to talk to them differently. It's almost like sexual abuse survivors have their own language. 

                      The rape victim that can coup with the trauma understands that her terrifying nightmares will not manifest in reality but rape is a tremendous sin in my opinion. The humiliation, the rejection, the utter terror is tremendous and that's the point and my main point is that psychological rape can be worse than physical rape. The body can heal but the mind lingers.

                      I always recommend when selecting the ideal date that putting to one side the sex bit is no good for anyone. Asking for and receiving permission to perform sexual acts is perhaps far more fulfilling than the act itself. Of course apart of the fulfilment is the results itself but again at the same time being aware of how powerful the psychological component of sex can be. So I always recommend approaching potential partners as a way of having a bit of fun. Being in a real relationship you talk, make each other laugh while at the same time being comfy in each other's company and not to take any of this to seriously.    

                    • McFlock

                      Another way both Mallard and I could be correct is that Soper's mate isn't telling the full story, or that the Francis report contained different, more serious, information compared to the original investigation. And that doesn't need linguistic gymnastics like:

                      "In essence this means that any male attention that a woman does not want or later regrets now falls under this extended definition of 'rape'.

                       

                    • Sam

                      I think it's best to take this sort of nitpicking up with ones parents. Relying on some self professed single person by choice on the Internet is the wrong type of person to be reading up on sex in general.   

                    • McFlock

                      If you think the difference between "flirting" and "sexual assault" is "nitpicking", you've got problems.

                    • Sam

                      The only one with a problem is you, McFlock. Redlogix and I are perfectly capable of having very difficult chit chats. 

                    • McFlock

                      lols Dunning-Kruger strikes again

                    • Sam

                      Commentating other people's conversation is not necessary either. This is a public place. Everyone can see the risks.

                    • McFlock

                      Yup, the risk that men can't tell the difference between them "flirting" with someone and them "sexually assaulting" someone.

                    • Sam

                      If it helps you get over it I can apologise for explaining how and why and in which ways you are crazed, McFlock. 

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                    • Sam

                      Have a nice day

            • Peter 2.1.1.1.1.3

              Is it fucked up and insanity that you think that all that happened was a hug? I don't know what happened, you don't know what happened. Mallard heard of some behaviour he described as "serious assault."

              Do you think his judgement is so impaired that on hearing of an innocent hug he formed a conclusion with such certainty that he publicly stated his  opinions as he did?

               

              • Anne

                +100

                Mallard will have seen the detail of the Francis report. He is probably the only person other than the author herself who knows those details. It can be assumed his comment is based on what he read in that report. 

                I would go so far as to accuse Soper of a malicious attempt to use the untested 'testimony' of an individual to try and undermine Mallard and his parliamentary position.

                And no. I'm not a particular fan of Mallard but I can smell political skulduggery a mile off.

                • James

                  the independent investigation matched his story and he was cleared. 

                   

                  The only political skulduggery is Mallard’s. 

                  • joe90

                    Nothing in the article about any independent investigation into the alleged incident. And the Speaker understood the same man was responsible for the two other claims of serious sexual assault, so perhaps it's a matter for police.

                     

              • alwyn

                He described it as a great deal more than "serious assault".

                He described it as rape. And yes, I do think his judgement is seriously impaired. Just look at the way he behaves in his role as Speaker. He has no idea at all of correct behavior.

          • Cinny 2.1.1.1.2

            +1 Allan

        • Sam 2.1.1.2

           No BM. We must let The Al1en signal to that it is okay to display feelings and outrage over this most grievousof accusations. Please Al1en, continue. 

        • ianmac 2.1.1.3

          I read it BM. I am sure this bloke was not asked to leave without some pretty compelling evidence of serious sexual offending. Trust Barry Soper? Really?

          Prefer to wait and see.

          • Anne 2.1.1.3.1

            Ditto ianmac.

            Harassers, stalkers, hoaxers, sexual predators and pathological liars always admit their guilt?  Not on your life. These types are able to convincingly convince themselves (and others) they are the victims and not the perpetrators. It is a well documented part of their varying personality and behavioural disorders.

            This link is about stalkers but since sexual predatory activity usually includes an element of stalking it would apply:

            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11885134

    • I hope Mallard gets done for this.

      What a sociopathic arsehole.

      Sure, if this guy's claims are 100% factual and if those incidents are the entirety of Mallard's claims of "serious sexual assault," he doesn't come out of it looking too flash.  Did you consider even for a second waiting until those aren't "if"s before blathering about sociopathic arseholes?  For all we know, the "sociopathic arsehole" is the guy you're defending, or someone else entirely.  It doesn't kill you to wait for some facts before blustering away on a comments thread.  

      • Wensleydale 2.2.1

        Some people obviously enjoy looking like reactionary knee-jerk weirdos blinded by partisan animosity. Any excuse to put the boot into the 'lefties'. And yes, Mallard's the Speaker now. But he used to be a leftie, the dirty, dirty Communist.

        In his spare time, BM also burns people for witchcraft.

    • Jimmy 2.3

      In my opinion Mallard is an idiot to have used the word "rape" even if he is aware of more facts than the rest of us. He doesn't seem to know when to keep his mouth shut. The guy accused should lawyer up and if the allegations have previously been dismissed, he will probably have a very good case against Mallard. Its ironic that the whole thing has been about bullying, as now this 'accused' man will say he has been bullied by Mallard.

  3. joe90 3

    A rain forest without rain Just fucking peachy.

    Alaska’s wettest region is experiencing an extreme drought for the first time in recorded history, climate scientists say.

    The southernmost portion of Southeast Alaska, including Ketchikan, Prince of Wales Island, Wrangell and Metlakatla, has been in a drought for the last two years, said Rick Thoman, a climatologist at the Fairbanks-based Alaska Center for Climate Assessment and Policy.

    Last week, though, the drought was updated to a D3, or “extreme” drought, the second-highest category the U.S. Drought Monitor measures. It’s the first time those conditions have ever been recorded in Alaska, according to the Drought Monitor.

    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/weather/2019/05/26/in-southeast-alaska-is-seeing-its-first-extreme-drought-ever-recorded-climatologists-say/

    • Poission 3.1

      The  US DMI only records data since 2000,since then the areas not in drought have increase from 50-60%.

       

      • joe90 3.1.1

        Yet a rain forest is in drought.

        /

         
         

         

        • Poission 3.1.1.1

          Only 2600 mm last year,bit like fiordland  yeh.

          • WeTheBleeple 3.1.1.1.1

            Yeah of no consequence aye.

            Power supply is dwindling, water supplies dwindling, pests rising.

            Everything is connected to everything else's everything.

            How much of the US non-drought areas have been subject to flooding in the last calendar year? Ask Arkansas, Oklahoma,  Missouri, Texas, Kansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri… off the top of my head…

            Did you know 40% of the US populated areas are close to levees? OUCH!

            As the planet warms more water is loaded into the atmosphere. Meanwhile weather patterns break down. Some areas will get disproportionately more water, some less.

            Flood and drought are to be new norms. Regular weather not so regular.

            We just had a summer drought, and now, apparently, an Autumn one. A few more seasons like that our farmers will be struggling to feed their stock let alone profit off them. Of course we pump water to them but it will reach a point townspeople have no water and cows do, on that day it will be entirely justifiable to cut off the farmers.

            I have several economic pests still present in my garden, normally winter would have put paid to them. Not this year – they get extra life cycles to populate in greater numbers. It will not take many repeats of this to see plagues of insect pests, especially in areas where we've failed to allow insect diversity, namely, most of NZ.

            Nature lies within a biosphere that encompasses the entire planet (and perhaps beyond). All within this system in some manner affect the rest of the system. Alaska's droughts are our concern. You'll see.

  4. Cinny 4

    Dental care is free to under 18's, so why on earth are toddlers teeth so rotten?

    Are parents not getting reminders/educated on how to care for their little ones teeth?

    Education drive maybe?  Sugar tax?

    Something needs to change.

    It's not the toddlers fault.  far out the pain…. is it too far to label it child abuse in some instances?

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.1

      Hi Cinny…..if you're referring to this article…

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/390624/toddler-waits-five-months-for-treatment-for-rotten-teeth-abscesses

      …then no, you'll have to hold fire with the accusations of child abuse as the wee mite has a condition known as dental hypoplasia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enamel_hypoplasia)

      We were just discussing over dinner tonight the lengths to which Natrad went to this morning to explain about the hypoplasia and how  the inevitable numpties emailled the station full of righteous indignation that an obviously irresponsible mother should be complaining about the wait time for acute pediatric dental treatment.

      Sigh.

      However.  It could very well be the case that the parents who wean their wee mites onto flouro green powerade or cola can be held to blame somewhat for the long wait list as their kids are also in the queue.  These parents know better…surely…more sighs.

       

       

      • Cinny 4.1.1

        I wonder how many have the dental hypoplasia?  Poor kids, distressing for the parents too no doubt.

        Thanks heaps for the link Rosemary.

        Was thinking I wonder why my kids teeth didn't go all rotten, but so many many others do.  And the only thing I could think of is that fizzy isn't normal at ours, birthdays are exciting cause there is fizzy lolz.  We drink milk and water mostly.  But then fizzy is cheaper than milk.

        Educational campaign for parents maybes?

        • Rosemary McDonald 4.1.1.1

          A friend's twins had hypoplasia…and I'm not sure about the prevalence.  According to the wiki page there are a number of 'causes', but the wee lassie this morning has an older brother with the same condition which implies in that family it is the hereditary form.

          There is a huge wait list for pediatric dental treatment and my guess that most of the kiddies are on it because of poor nutrition/sugary drinks and food. I have on more than one occasion seen babes in arms sucking on fizzy and how the hell you get the message through I have no idea.  However….the mums of the children with fizzy- rotted teeth will most definitely not be on the wireless complaining about the delay for treatment.   Because guilt.  And shame.

          Cinny…my youngest is twenty seven and  I remember the constant messaging about baby teeth and sugar and fizzy and good nutrition and how it all starts in the womb.  And about the drugs and the drink and the smoking. I guess its the same today?

          • Cinny 4.1.1.1.1

            Cinny…my youngest is twenty seven and  I remember the constant messaging about baby teeth and sugar and fizzy and good nutrition and how it all starts in the womb.  And about the drugs and the drink and the smoking. I guess its the same today?

            Rosemary, it's not, least I'm pretty sure especially with my youngest when she was a toddler that there wasn't as much info/education about it.  My girls are now 14 and 11.  I remember seeing little posters at the Dr's and at Plunket  showing the sugar content of drinks and that was enough to put me off. 

            Absolutely convinced it is relative to the cheap cost of sugary drinks v's milk for example.  Also all the hidden sugar in muesli bars etc.  Reliance on processed food etc.  Cheap lollies etc, using sugary food as a reward etc.

            Maybe we need sugar warning labels on products with high sugar content.  Seems to work with putting people off smoking…

            Perhaps an intensive education campaign via social media/tv etc plus in schools would help.  It's so sad for the little ones.

             

        • gsays 4.1.1.2

          I vote for any solution that doesn't involve more proliferation of artificial sweeteners.

          A little part of me dies when I hear aspartame talked about as a solution.

          However that's pro plaugers for you.

    • Sabine 4.2

      well these guy seem to be fed up as well, 

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/113026512/dentists-fed-up-with-treating-third-world-conditions-call-for-more-funding-for-dental-care

      Dentists fed up with seeing patients suffering unnecessarily from "third world" tooth conditions are pushing for urgent action to make dental care more affordable.

      Dr Assil Russell, the founder of the charity Revive a Smile, said too many people were delaying treatment for preventable dental health problems due to financial barriers.

      The Hamilton-based dentist is the driving force behind a petition signed by 10,000 people calling for the Government to make dental care free for all New Zealanders

      i think there are different reasons, to expensive for adults, so adults don't have a relationship with a dentist and thus their children aren't taken to one. Childrens teeth, the mistaken believe that it is just 'milk teeth' and thus they regrow, never mind the damage to the gums/bones etc. Lack of transport/childcare etc. For women on a benefit with multiple children regular dental care for the children might fall under 'undesirable for an employement' – same this for regular check ups. Food deserts, places were really the only affordable food is the chinese take away and the 2.5 litre bottle of fizzy for a dollar vs the 4 $+ two litre bottle of milk. Smoking, stress, teeth grinding ( my friends three year old grinds his teeth…!).  And then if everyone has no teeth at 45 and lives with a plate, then it also becomes a normal thing. 

       

      But i believe that if we can get the adults back to dental care the kids follow. And the government would save a tidy sum in health care, and illness / early death related benefits, lost productivity and such. Preventative healthcare rather then treating symptoms health care. 

    • Are parents not getting reminders/educated on how to care for their little ones teeth?

      One of my neighbours in Kuwait was always taking her little boy back to India to have a dentist sort out his rotten teeth.  She couldn't understand why his teeth were so shit. My wife figured it probably had something to do with the baby bottles of fruit juice she gave him to bathe his teeth in all day, but parents tend not to welcome others' thoughts on how ur doin it wrong so we never raised it with her.  Seems fairly common in this country too.

  5. joe90 5

    .

     

    Aww…

    On a European election night when the Brexit party dominated across the UK, perhaps the most eye-catching story in North West England was the humiliating drubbing suffered by the anti-Islam activist Tommy Robinson.

    Having claimed for weeks to be on the crest of an international movement – one that elected Donald Trump in the US – the man whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon had expected to “walk into Brussels like Connor McGregor” upon his election.

    In the end, Robinson won only 2.2% of the vote – losing his £5,000 deposit – and sneaked out of the election count in central Manchester barely an hour after he had arrived. He tried to put a brave face on it, claiming the establishment had “arranged and organised” for him to be banned from social media to scupper his election bid, but it was a resounding defeat for the founder of the English Defence League

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/27/humiliated-tommy-robinson-sneaks-out-of-election-count-early

  6. A 6

    This is a disturbing thing…the CPI in the US is chronically under priced.  If the same were true in NZ that would mean both interest rates and core benefits that are set off CPI are both incorrect.

    https://talkmarkets.com/content/the-cpi-is-underrepresenting-food-inflation-by-40-heres-the-proof?post=222199

    Or check out this in video form if you prefer

  7. Ankerrawshark 7

    Saw new leader of the  oz Labour Party on Tele tonight Anthony albanese.   Very Aussie bloke but seemed very genuine, authentic……..fingers crossed.

    and on a different note what fools those who buy into Barry’s article about the guy stood down at parliament.  I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the enquiry that cleared him was a white wash (acknowledge I could be wrong).   It wouldn’t have been mallard himself who stood him down, but parliamentary services.   Debbie Francis found significant examples of abuse, sexual harassment etc. 

    btw BM many years ago when I was in my early thirties an older man at work on two occasions came up behind me and bear hugged me……I found it very unpleasant and inappropriate.   If it ok for men to do this in the work place, I ask the men on this site what it would be like if a gay bloke (and I say gay, because it then brings the possibility that there is a sexual motivation in it) came up and unexpectedly bear hugged you?    

  8. Herodotus 8

    Chris Hipkins should just go and join National. He speaks as one he acts as one. He is well schooled to regurgitate what ever his PR team have been prepping him. There are teachers already below min wage pity that this is is breach of our law

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/some-teachers-paid-less-than-minimum-wage-after-bureaucratic-blunder

     And Hipkins just said this "Strike action is not justified." He is a Labour MP ?? Disgrace IMO for someone from Labour 

    • Wayne 8.1

      Do you seriously expect a Minister (irrespective of party) to say, "strike action is justified." He represents the government, not the unions. The job of the government is to keep public services in operation, not encourage strikes.

      • Pierre 8.1.1

        Yes, the Labour Party can and should support strike action, even against its own government.

        The role of the mass party of labour is to act as a political wing of the labour movement. This means the party is not simply a parliamentary faction; it is also a social movement. Government ministers sit within the state machine, the trade unions are outside it, and the party spans the gap between the two. The overall political direction of the party should not be determined by the administrative demands of government, but by the needs of the working class as a whole.

        To be clear, Labour ministers are there to serve the people, it is not their job to discipline the unions. We really need to do away with the idea that a Labour government is Her Majesty's government, or that Labour should be somehow subordinate to the will of the state.

        If a Labour government fails to live up to the expectations of the labour movement, it would be absolutely correct for Labour Party members to hold their ministers accountable. Similarly, if Labour ministers feel that the machinery of state is not responding to their demands, it would be totally acceptable for them to endorse industrial action in order to push aside any resistance to their objectives.

        • CHCoff 8.1.1.1

          These strikes are not in accordance with the democratic processes, which the unions have been woefully deficient, in providing good representation to their constituencies.

          In a political sense, these strikes are of the opposition to the govt. That's not the way to go. Where were they during the previous period?

          The incompetence of Unions politically, using England as an example, was the pre-cursor before the Thatcher govt. kicked off 4+ decades of financial neo-liberalism etc so in a political sense, it does seem that the Govt. is not impressed with counter productive unions to their members’ interests.

      • Herodotus 8.1.2

        Perhaps the minister like others in govt are IMO poorly phrasing their thoughts 🤭

        Perhaps he should have said something like "he was disappointed that the union and its members has resorted to this action" he had the day to prep for the interview, BUT to say Not Justified. Perhaps those making such poorly thought out comments should see what those within the profession are facing. Thanks to many govts; the work loads of teachers have dramatically increased yet pay does not recognise this additional work.  I know the same is for many professions (nurse (pity they were the 1st off in the pay review )etc)

        He represents the government, not the unions – So is it the govts "job" to restrict and pay to the min that they can get away  ?? That will work for so long and then there is the release of this pent up pressure.

         

  9. Wayne 9

    It is one thing for activists in Labour to do as you suggest, quite another for Ministers to do so.

    By definition Ministers are Her Majesty's government. Our constitutional government could not operate if it was anything other than that. And you don't want to risk changing that. Which is not the republican issue, but rather that we have a government that acts according to law.

    Your complaint is really about Hipkins (or Robertson) not providing more money to settle the strike. The solution for a Labour government is to provide more money, not encourage strike action.

    But even Labour governments can't just give unions whatever they want. So if they think they are providing enough, naturally they are going to say strike action is not justified.

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