A strong coalition of organisations, unions and employers across the country are calling on the Government to take immediate action to close ethnic, gender and disability pay gaps in the workplace.
In support of this call, an open letter addressed to the Government has been published by Te Kāhui Tika Tangata Human Rights Commission, calling for pay transparency legislation to help close all our pay gaps without delay.
"The cost of living keeps rising, and so does the impact of unfair pay, wage theft, unconscious bias and systemic racism. Tens of thousands of families, especially Māori, Pacific, ethnic minorities, and our disabled communities are struggling to make ends meet,” urged Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner, Saunoamaali’i Karanina Sumeo.
According to the latest child poverty statistics released last week, 1 in 9 children live in low-income households that had less than 50% of the median household income. Broken down further, 14.5% of tamariki Māori, 19.5% of Pacific children and 17% disabled children are affected— figures higher than the national average.
“Those who suffer as a result of unjust and unfair pay go beyond workers and into the next generation if we fail to stop it now.”
“We all deserve and want to live with dignity and have the same rights to an adequate standard of living and equal employment opportunity,” added Sumeo.
An open letter delivered to Parliament this morning calls on the government to crack on with legislation requiring transparency from businesses on the pay gap.
The letter comes after the Pacific Pay Gap Inquiry Report found that for every dollar a Pākehā man made in 2021, Pākehā women earned just 89 cents.
For Māori men it dropped to 86 cents, Māori women and Pasifika men earned 81 cents, and Pasifika women earned just 75 cents on the dollar.
…
Legislating pay transparency was about incentivising businesses to "do the right thing" by their workers, she said, but it would also empower employees.
"Turn the lights on, be up front; if you're going to a shop you know … generally what the prices are for what you're buying, if you're going to give your talent and your commitment and your loyalty to a business, the least you could expect is to have the salary there," she said.
"We need to provide a tool so that people can empower themselves in terms of the pursuit of fair pay, equal opportunities, fairness and self determination."
Pay transparency is one of the ways we as workers can build solidarity. Letting fellow workers know what we're getting paid makes it harder for an employer to have unjustified pay discrepancies. Many people would be surprised by the existence of these in their own workplaces, but without pay transparency they will never know about them. We look out for each other.
Yes the lack of pay transparency is something that always irked me. There is no possible justification for it other than giving management a tool to manipulate people with.
Nordic countries have pay transparency. I wonder whether this is due to their shared culture that it works and what would be needed to make it as comfortable for people here to accept:
Each year Sweden, Finland and Norway publish everyone’s income tax returns. In Sweden anyone can find out anyone’s salary with a quick phone call to the tax authorities. The person whose returns you request will know it was you, but that is all.
You can know how much your neighbour earns, and how much tax she pays. The practice dates back to the 18th century. Different cultures have different ideas about privacy. The British seem not to mind being watched by millions of surveillance cameras, but they do not want their salaries to be public record. In Sweden it is the other way around.
"She says she was in shock when she made a statement to a right-wing videographer shortly that white cis men are the main perpetrators of family violence, and she stands by her position that it is men rather than trans people who are the biggest threat to men."
Honestly, to me it looked like he realised that security was having problems and moved forward to help out – that may be why he faced outwards once he reached the woman in the high-vis vest.
In the video you showed she was the aggressor to start with but i have been one of the first to say she deserves action when she lays charges, so you can fuck off with your smearing. The facts will hopefully come out and if she is an innocent party she deserves the full weight of the law behind her.
Linked to the beginning of the thread because you were not the only one with that perspective.
All I have done is given you more information. If that helps you come to a different and/or more settled perspective on what has happened, then just say so.
The footage has only been put up this afternoon, so was not available AFAIK beforehand.
I have it on good authority that Andrew Coster instructed front line police to allow the TRAs to get stuck in.
Charging Coster with conspiratorial links with the Trans Community is insanity at its craziest. God help us if tripe like this is accepted as the norm.
Can't we even have Daily Review reserved for discussion of important issues without 'the gang' moving in to dominate the discourse.
But the video photographer has also posted his 360 degree video during the breakthrough the barriers, which shows there were no police present, if that is of interest to you. You can find it on his other videos.
This video is far clearer of the situation than the one you postered earlier with dramatic music effects. This does show protesters moving in on the lady so I hope they are held to account, as i have said from the beginning.
Yes. It does show the information we were both lacking beforehand. It has taken the cameraman this long to process and upload.
I linked to your comment because it was the beginning of the thread, not because I thought you would hold that position after seeing the footage, and you were not the only one who held that up as a possibility, even I conceded it could be true.
(I didn’t like the added music on the original clip either, but I’m not the source – only posting to it because it was the only version I could find.)
Fair enough. I wasn't speaking about the lack of police presence but rather the suggestion there was a police conspiracy.
Why the police were not front and centre from the start has yet to be determined. I suspect it was because they knew they would have been damned if they did and damned if they didn't so they kept their distance and waited to see what happened. Which, with the benefit of hindsight, was not the best thing to do.
I'm pretty certain in Posie Parkers own streaming when she arrived she walked passed some Police in the park. In hindsight not enough but I think there were some there.
AFAIK, Kellie Jay Keen has no criticism for the police, who stayed with her from the moment she left Albert Park till when she boarded the flight out.
My partner and daughter, who were at the event saw the police on the periphery, but not at the event itself. They walked though after the barricade came down, but they didn’t see them intervening. They saw a group again as they were leaving, but they were not intervening at all. A couple were looking at their phones with no concern about the event.
There has been some commentary over on Sean Plunket's Platform from various women – a couple of whom were involved in organising – about the communications with police, and the failure to intervene despite request. But it is a long show to get through – about three hours with all the parts. I think it is at the end of Part 2, where Katrina Biggs says she has a recording of the police saying that they didn't want to get involved in bad optics.
Me too – The Standard has been my go to blog for several years – I'm an avid reader/follower and sometime commenter. I think I will bail out for a while too. I'm a white CIS (bordering on elderly) female with definitely feminist left wing views and have been dismayed by some of the rhetoric espoused by some commenters. Kelly-Jay Keen certainly does not speak for me, along with 'Let Women Speak', nor 'Voices for Freedom'.
Anne – I can recall many times when you have related stories from your own experience of untoward things happening in the Public Service.
Given that:
At least three govt MP's were present and actively supporting the counter protest, and that the Prime Minister has openly declared that he wishes he was able to be there for the same reasons
The Police seem to have been well aware for the potential for a clash between protesting groups and the Commissioner might well have advised the relevant Minister of this.
And that subsequently the Police were conspicuous in their absence
And PP once suitably intimidated was immediately given a free ride by said Police first to her hotel and then the airport
then it is within the bounds of reason to suspect or speculate that something untoward has happened. We had better hope that nothing like this has happened, because if someone blows a whistle on this it could well bring this PM down.
I did get to the bottom of it but am not at liberty to say anything. Suffice to say the PS as such proved not to be the guilty party. A complex situation that I had the misfortune to have found myself embroiled in through circumstances outside my control.
I think you are correct to be a little alarmed on this. I have generally stayed out of the gender politics of all this furore, but you have to admit there have been some intriguing things falling out from it.
As I suggested – the dots are all there – if someone manages to join them together credibly the shit really will hit the fan. It's rarely the crime, but the cover-up that gets you.
It turns out for instance, that Nash's three year old emails to some donors in his electorate did not involve any opportunity for personal gain, but were a breach of Cabinet confidentiality. He had to go, but this was careless more than corrupt and scarcely the crime of the century.
However it seems the PM's office has been sitting on the knowledge of these emails for at least two years – and this may well turn out to matter a great deal more.
The thing is RL there is so much going on these days which are alarming to the point of deadliness and really need the undivided attention of our leaders both in NZ and elsewhere.
I recognise gender issues are important to some people but compared to the rapidly increasing effects of CC and the level of chaos that is gradually overtaking the world (and behind most of it is CC) this is a peripheral issue that is being used, imho, to add to the chaos that already exists.
Of course there are faults on both sides. No-one is saying there isn't. But the level of maniacal (if I may use such an emotionally charged word because I can't think of another one 🙁 ) accusations being thrown around with abandon is getting beyond the pail.
Hang on a mo while I check whether its pail or pale. 😎
Yup – I can largely agree with this. Still it is the nature of this site that some topics will absorb a disproportionate amount of bandwidth – Julian Assange springs to mind – for far longer than seems reasonable.
The problem though, Anne, is for some worried about climate change, poverty, the housing crisis, the health services, water quality, education and the cost of living, the current politicians are equally ineffective at addressing these issues.
The impact of gender ideology may seem to you to be purely of women's rights – but the lack of clinical evidence for harsh and medical treatment of our minors is appalling to me. It surpasses the "unfortunate experiment" scandal, and the more recent mesh implants that took over a decade before it was even looked at.
This is not about passing judgment on those that choose to present and live in any particular way, it is about the failure of government policies to consider the wider impacts, and possible negative harms of changing sex markers on documents and systems instead of adding gender identity ones.
… the lack of clinical evidence for harsh and medical treatment of our minors is appalling to me. It surpasses the "unfortunate experiment" scandal, and the more recent mesh implants that took over a decade before it was even looked at.
Could not agree more. Shocking lack of accountability and measures put into place to stop them from happening.
This is the thing. We have all been talking past each other and in actual fact we likely agree on more than we disagree on. I accept I'm as much to blame as anyone else.
My biggest issue is that my reasonably well tuned antennae tells me PP is not as genuine as she makes herself out to be. We are going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
People are failing to acknowledge that NZ women's voices were silenced on the weekend.
Melbourne's #LetWomenSpeak event had seventeen women expressing their concerns and or experiences in public, despite the presence of several protest groups – including NeoNazis.
All it took to silence women in NZ, was one group – the 'peaceful' rainbow community and allies. Many NZ women were denied the opportunity to speak, and others to listen. The threat was real, injuries were sustained and NZ media and commentators celebrated.
(It appears the elderly woman punched in the face has a fractured skull.)
scroll back to Weka at 5 Incognito. Ministry of Health says much of Marc's article is false. Wheres Kate Hannah and the Disinformation when you need her?
I think the lack of funding to appropriate counselling and mental health provision needs to be seriously rectified. (NB: I am not implying that all transgender people are mentally ill, but this demographic has a lot of co-morbidities and would materially benefit from such investment.)
With a centralised health system, we are also in a good position for good data collection, monitoring and both long and short term follow up of any delivered healthcare treatments.
I'd also like to see specialised care data and programmes for medical detransitioners. At present they seem to be both unrecognised and ill served by the medical profession.
The $2.2m taxpayer-funded complaints centre set up by the Human Rights Commission for receiving complaints about ‘conversion therapy’ has admitted that there have been no formal complaints about ‘conversion therapy’ since the new law was passed, despitesignificantadvertising about its services.
For those following the reversal in many countries and jurisdictions of the "affirming healthcare" model for minors due to clinical literature reviews, the current situation in Alabama might be worth keeping an eye on.
A district judge has issued a subpoena to WPATH for documentation:
Proscription of the discovery Defendants seek would, in essence, amount to acceptance of WPATH’s standards as “established, evidence-based clinical guidelines”6 on WPATH’s word alone, and without further inquiry.
WPATH’s motion to quash (Doc. 208) is accordingly DENIED on its merits, and Defendants’ motion in limine (Doc. 220) is DENIED as moot. WPATH may redact7 any personal, identifying information in compliance with Defendants’ subpoena—subject, of course, to a future showing of good cause to the contrary from Defendants. Additionally, if any documents produced concern the same person, WPATH shall provide an alias for that person, so that it is clear when documents reference the same person.
Finally, the parties are reminded that discovery in this case is subject to a protective order.
IIRC, Alabama is doing a clinical literature review for the practice of "affirming health care". As part of this, they asked WPATH to provide documented evidence of their published guidelines.
WPATH refused, and the next step was going to court to issue a subpoena – which has now been done.
So, I'm assuming once these documents have been released – if no other impediment obstructs that – many others will be interested in viewing that evidence.
this really is very excellent though, and great timing with MoH reviewing its own information which apparently uncritically accepted WPATH as a source.
Dr Peter Boghossian wants us to learn how to have impossible conversations about tough topics ; gender identity, faith, race, politics, the lot. He's a former Professor of Philosophy at Portland State University who started a conversation about the place of free speech and critical thinking in higher education when he quit his job in 2021, saying it had become a social justice factory at the price of intellectual freedom. He's a founding faculty member at the University of Austin, a private institution. He's on tour in Australia advocating for everyone to how to have tough conversations in an age of social media misinformation and polarization. Dr Boghossian talks to Jesse.
You might not want to know that he's got a few videos up from universities about gender ideology, but he touches on a lot of topics and demonstrates some methods:
In your case, it would be. In this (my) case, it is logical continuation, or extrapolation, as you’d call it, of the same argument about one platform provider being revered for providing a platform.
Yes. I think this is for two reasons; one is that The Platform is one of very few media sources who takes no govt funding. This gives them scope to say things many others are not touching.
The other is that while the right wing bias is plain and obvious, Plunkett is willing to have the conversation with pretty much anyone who will pick up the phone. For instance today he had Bradbury on as a guest, and while they are clearly far apart politically it was nonetheless an interesting, lively and respectful conversation.
For decades the left believed that the media was deadset against them, providing a constant and troubling political headwind. Frequently it felt like our voice was ignored, suppressed or silenced and as a result a decade ago TS held 'freedom of speech' as a core and vital value.
Well that started to shift around 2014 as I recall it – and the free speech baton has definitely passed over to the right. It would be instructive to reflect why.
When freedom of speech is the expression of personal freedom and choice, it is an expression and extension of neoliberalism. As such, it is the be-all-end-all.
When freedom of speech is the medium/vehicle to break down class structures in/of a class society, it is an expression and extension of socialism. As such, it is a means-to-an-end.
TS still holds freedom of speech (without scare quotes) at its core and vital value – I wouldn’t be here otherwise. It charges nothing, it costs very little to run (so Lynn keeps telling us), and runs 100% on unpaid volunteers.
Not all speech is equal. Some is noise, hot air, or cacophony – click-bait, sensational headlines, and shock-jocks vying for viewers or listeners to keep the advertisers and shareholders happy. Some may sometimes even come close to intelligent debate.
TS still holds freedom of speech (without scare quotes) at its core and vital value
Well I am glad you think so. From my perspective I could easily list a handful of topics that I no longer feel safe to talk about here.
I think we crossed over this Rubicon when we decided to start banning climate change deniers – I can't blame anyone for this, I fully supported it myself at the time; everyone was over dealing with their more idiotic arguments. But it was a habit easier started than stopped.
Probably because that's when the US Fox News began to portray the MSM as biased against the GOP. Q and the birther movement had arrived. The right wing here just follow their cultural imperialist lead.
Fox News as champions of free speech against the liberal Obama era “MSM” approved regime.
It is however worth listening to the women he is platforming currently. The reason we have to listen on SP's show is because No Debate has meant left leaning (and in NZ, also centrist) media won't usually cover gender critical women's views. That's why we still don't know what the NZ women were going to say at the event. Unless we listen to The Platform, or SM.
This is pretty egregious, to accuse others of Holocaust denial. Other than the percieved 'misattribution' of Nazism to those opposed to trans rights what evidence is there to make such a claim? Are you not aware of the Nazi book burnings, destruction of the Institute of Sex Research?
The Institut für Sexualwissenschaft was an early private sexology research institute in Germany from 1919 to 1933.
…
The Institute was headed by Magnus Hirschfeld, who since 1897 had run the Wissenschaftlich-humanitäres Komitee ('Scientific-Humanitarian Committee'), which campaigned on progressive and rational grounds for LGBT rights and tolerance.
…
The Nazi book burnings in Berlin included the archives of the institute. After the Nazis gained control of Germany in the 1930s, the institute and its libraries were destroyed as part of a Nazi government censorship program by youth brigades, who burned its books and documents in the street.
…
From about the early 1920s onward, Hirschfeld became a target of the far-right in Germany, including the Nazi Party. He was physically attacked during multiple incidents, including an incident in Munich on 4 October 1920 in which he was badly injured. Deutschnationale Jugendzeitung, a nationalist paper, commented that it was "regrettable" Hirschfeld had not died. In another incident in Vienna, he was shot at. By 1929, frequent targeting by Nazis made it difficult for Hirschfeld to continue with his appearances in public. A caricature of him appeared on the front page of Der Stürmer in February 1929; the Nazi Party attacked his Jewish ancestry as well as his theories about sex, gender, and sexuality.
In late February 1933, as the influence of Ernst Röhm weakened, the Nazi Party launched its purge of gay (then known as homophile) clubs in Berlin, outlawed sex publications, and banned organised gay groups. As a consequence, many fled Germany (including, for instance, Erika Mann). In March 1933 Kurt Hiller, a lawyer affiliated with the institute, was sent to a concentration camp, where he was tortured, though he later fled Germany and survived the war.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the whole hyperbole, lets reinvent the meaning of words thing. All sides are doing. So I wouldn't use the word denial myself, I'd probably call it thoughtlessness or dissociation.
her point stands though. Calling terfs nazis minimises what Nazis are and were, and waters down a bunch of concepts and meanings. That's the point of her thread, to remind people what they're referencing.
Btw, I was aware of the book burnings. In 2023, it's the gender identity activists are that are burning books, cancelling people, and running No Debate.
Evidence of gender identity activists burning books please.
The point doesn't stand because her point is to accuse her opponents of holocaust denial.
When neo-nazis show up to support your rally it's evidence that they share parts of your ideology. The Nazi's didn't stop with the book burning, they didn’t just ‘cancel people’ or ‘run No Debate’, they persecuted all forms of homosexuality:
The Nazi regime considered the elimination of all manifestations of homosexuality in Germany one of its goals.
…
Nazi Germany's persecution of homosexuals is considered to be the most severe episode in a long history of discrimination and violence targeting sexual minorities.
After the war, homosexuals were initially not counted as victims of Nazism because homosexuality continued to be illegal in Nazi Germany's successor states. Few victims came forward to discuss their experiences. The persecution came to wider public attention during the gay liberation movement of the 1970s, and the pink triangle was reappropriated as an LGBT symbol.
There are others, it's a thing. The religious fundamentalists burn HP too. By your argument above, this means that TRAs and religious fundamentalists are in league together.
Now where did I say anti-trans and neo-nazi's are in league? I pointed out that the Neo-Nazis in Melbourne were there to support the rally, they were not asked to, they were not invited, they are not 'in league with each other' but they share an anti-trans agenda. Religious fundamentalists burned Harry Potter books because they thought it 'encouraged witchcraft', the singular TRA in the Daily Mail article you posted isn't even linked to directly and explains themself here:
Once again I want express my disgust that accusations of Holocaust denial are being leveraged against people opposed to groups that have support from Neo-nazis and religious fundamentalists. It's ahistoric and unacceptable.
"Sewell outlined the objectives of the protest on Telegram:
Today in Melbourne, the National Socialist Network acted as a vanguard for a protest against the constant paedophilic agenda being forced upon our children and our people.
They formed a wall between the feral antifa freaks intent on violence and destruction and stopped them dead in their tracks.
They made their presence known and made their message clear.
Paedophiles deserve destruction, and the only solution to this sickness is White Revolution!
DESTROY PAEDO FREAKS!"
There is no reference at all to the #LetWomenSpeak event.
The article goes further on to say this about KJK and it is not complimentary:
" The headline speaker for the event was Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, an atheist radical feminist."
"Both the groomer ideology of “trans” activists and the lesbianism promoted by Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull are forms of Liberalism directed by the Globohomo regime at White people in order to undermine White families, birthrates and social cohesion."
I posted this article which contains the Telegram link to statement, but you have to sign up to read it. If someone does have a Telegram account which shows it has been reported wrongly here, I'd appreciate a correction.
"What is 'acting as a vanguard' if it is not to support the protest?"
They say who they are protecting in their statement: "our children and our people".
Your fallacy of association is further exposed by viewing the livestream taken by someone else of the surroundings of the #LetWomenSpeak event, which shows absolutely no contact or interaction between the two groups (there were several different groups there on the day):
That's not evidence. It's some guy's reckons in a car, without back up corroboration. Also, he doesn't reference the #LetWomenSpeak event specifically.
There were several groups there including a Christian Conservative group that protests on a weekly basis.
Could this reference be to them?
Contrast and compare with the #LetWomenSpeak livestream:
I pointed out that the Neo-Nazis in Melbourne were there to support the rally
so they say, or to appropriate it. Neo Nazis turning out to support women's rights? I don't think so.
they were not asked to
that's right, they weren't invited
they were not invited
yep.
they are not 'in league with each other' but they share an anti-trans agenda.
nope. LWS and GC women are there to talk about women's sex based rights and child safeguarding. If you think there is an anti-trans message that the nazis share, please show us exactly what you are referring to. I don't think either of us believe the Nazis are interested in women's rights.
Religious fundamentalists burned Harry Potter books because they thought it 'encouraged witchcraft', the singular TRA in the Daily Mail article you posted isn't even linked to directly and explains themself here:
There have been multiple book HP book burnings, by TRAs and fundies. I'm pointing out that the link between them is as ridiculous as the link between Nazis and GC women.
child safeguarding and paedophilic agenda being forced upon our children and our people.
Pleease provide a link for that quote. If it's not a quote, then please provide some evidence for the claim. I'd like to see what the Nazis mean, because the sentence doesn't make sense. Who is forcing child safeguarding in this Nazi world view?
Child safeguarding is what we do in society currently. It's being eroded in places. Genderists block a conversation about that, not by crying "not all trans people" but by stating that trans people cannot be predatory on children (or women). Stop and think that one through and how it might be a problem for safeguarding.
The link is provided by Molly at 1:32pm above. It is a quote from leader of the NSN, Thomas Sowell on the reasons his group of neo-nazis were attending the LWS Rally.
[Child safeguarding is] being eroded in places.
What evidence backs up this claim?
Where has anyone claimed:
that trans people cannot be predatory on children (or women).
Here is an anti-trans message that the nazis share:
child safeguarding and paedophilic agenda being forced upon our children and our people.
The second part of that is in Molly’s link, the words ‘child safeguarding’ aren’t.
How is child safeguarding anti-trans?
I’ll post about child safeguarding being eroded later when I have more time.
The claim that TRAs say trans people cannot be predatory happens in two ways. One is directly, when they say that trans women don’t do sexual violence. There’s also the idea that trans women don’t have the same patterns of sexual violence that other men do. But more commonly it’s when women raise issues of safety in single sex spaces and they are told that it’s cis men that put women at risk not TW.
I will find examples of these when I have time too, the latter is common it shouldn’t be too hard.
LWS and GC women are there to talk about women's sex based rights and child safeguarding
The neo-nazis said:
Today in Melbourne, the National Socialist Network acted as a vanguard for a protest against the constant paedophilic agenda being forced upon our children and our people.
'Safeguarding/protecting children' from trans people is the common ideology. It's not based on fact, trans people are not inherently a threat to children, children can be 'safeguarded' without opposing trans rights. There is no evidence that transwomen have the 'same patterns of sexual violence' as men, the one study that is claimed to show that does not make that finding as the lead author has pointed out many times.
With what evidence do you dispute this statement: it’s cis men that put women at risk not [transwomen].
The 2022 New Zealand Crime and Victims Survey showed “females were almost four times as likely as males to have experienced offending by an intimate partner and nearly twice as likely to have experienced offending by another family member”. About 35% of females and 12% of males had experienced sexual assault in their lifetime.
In 2020, 84% of applicants for protection orders were women and 86% of respondents were men.
…
Family violence in particular is difficult to quantify because it takes many forms and is under-reported. But we know it’s the largest driver of violent crime in Aotearoa New Zealand. And it’s predominantly perpetrated by men, against women and children.
…
“New Zealand European” men make up the majority of the male population and are responsible for the majority of reported family violence offences.
More Māori than New Zealand European people were convicted of family violence offences in 2022. (But keep in mind only a fraction of reported offences end in a conviction.)
According to Police demographic data on sexual assault and related offences, "European" represented the ethnicity with the most proceedings. (Obviously, this doesn't overlap with family violence exactly.)
Her later statement, about women being more likely to be victims of family and sexual violence (and men more likely the perpetrators), is true.
thank-you. I appreciate you spelling that out because now I have a better understanding of what you are saying. (I wish people would do this sooner not later, not just you, it’s been happening a lot).
I’ll break it down a bit.
child safeguarding falls into two broad categories: transitioning (affirmation only, and overmedicalising), and sexualisation/abuse
GCFs and Nazis have a superficial crossover on those, similar perhaps to how feminists and religious fundamentalists both oppose porn. But the main difference is that GCFs don’t want to suppress trans people and Nazis do.
The GCF position is that males (what you would call cis men and trans women) as a class are a risk to women and children with VAWG. Your own link shows that (and rates of MVAWG is a given in conversations like this). Society limits access of males to females in certain situations because of that risk. There is no suggestion that all men are predators. There is no suggestion that all TW are predators.
absence of evidence that TW have similar rates of VAWG as other males is not the same as proving that they don’t. Until the research is done, we just don’t know. Until the research is done, we safeguard children (and women).
Maybe the TW rate of VAGW is half that of other males. At what point does it become low enough to lessen safeguarding of women and children?
I don’t know what the theory is that offers a rationale for why TW wouldn’t have the same rates of offending as other males, do you?
Once again I want express my disgust that accusations of Holocaust denial are being leveraged against people opposed to groups that have support from Neo-nazis and religious fundamentalists. It's ahistoric and unacceptable.
Both sides are weaponising this, but I will note your silence on terf = Nazi and how many women have been told they are Nazis or Nazi sympathisers (another historical reference) for saying things like sex is dimorphic, or you can't change sex literally, or women have a right to single sex spaces. Things that most people believe, but many are now afraid to say outloud.
Even now you are twisting language yourself saying that GCFs are supported by Nazis.
So your objection to ahistorical comparisons is noted but it looks like yet another one side's spin.
I think Arkie you would be better to avoid knee jerk reactions. I am a woman who was thinking deeply about going to see PP to hear she and other women talk about their issues of concern. My gt fear was the violence that I was likely to met from transactivists. Being the same age as the woman who is now suffering a fractured skull this concern seems to be to have been justified.
I had no fear of neo Nazis as I knew that they had not been asked nor welcomed by PP (and I naively thought NZPolice would have been there to keep them away should they have turned up)
Since being on SM I have been called a Nazi.
Those opposed to women maintaining safe spaces and safeguarding the rights of children to be children have routinely called opponents to their messages, Nazis. I would never dream of calling anyone a Nazi.
Many of these are young people who are deliberately mutilating their own bodies, their own sexual reproductive organs in pursuit of what I call an identitarian cult.
I had one Uncle killed on Crete and at one stage my grandmother had one of her seven sons at home during WW2. Six were overseas fighting Nazis while the remaining one had been killed in WW1 at aged 16 fighting against the predecessors of the Nazis. There will be many other families whose grandfathers/mothers & greats fought against Nazis. I think it would be clear we would not support Nazis.
I do not feel that we should tolerate the wholesale calling of others Nazis as it is wrong.
The Nazis were a very specific part of our world history and nobody, but nobody should minimise them nor the impact they had on the free world.
I regret that you seem to be thinking that somehow it is Ok for people to call women's rights activists Nazis, neo Nazis, Nazis adjacent and now are we Holocaust deniers?
I understand the Jewish Council had said that they did not lobby against PP coming and felt that all who attended the rally should unite against Nazis/neo Nazis should they appear. I am not sure if they did or did not appear. I wonder if having called women’s rights supporters Nazis would the Rainbow crowd have even recognised the Nazis that did turn up.
Nowhere have I claimed that ‘women’s rights activists’ are nazis.
You’ve said that a couple of times I think and I’m glad you are reiterating it. Because women’s rights activists (no quotes needed) are being called nazis by people arguing very similar positions as you. So you saying you’re not is a good thing and makes debate more possible, thanks.
That on both sides there is the risk of cancel culture – but in the Cold War style, this side or that, it's first about getting control of their own "tribe".
KJK talks of annihilation of those women who are not on her side (while she does not clarify what she means – it sounds a bit like the 1970's schisms – division on division within feminism).
And the attacks on transsexual/transcum" by TRA's – they too have been called TERF'S and Nazis for (notably it is those born male doing it) for identifying as women in their physical form as much as they can.
That’s just absolutely shocking even when for decades we’ve seen these images. Fresh horror every time. I abhor the knee jerk reaction of slurs, it immediately denigrates the user in my eyes. Says more about them than the person they are using it against.
This elderly chap is nonplussed about the whole debate on TS.
If women wish to hold a meeting to express their hopes and their concerns they do have that right. If the speakers wanted to use the meeting to destroy a different group then they should expect to be reacted upon.
I am off to read simpler topics like National Act bad. Labour Greens good.
Huh? If I set up a meeting to express my views about say Save the Whitebait, and instead stigmatise salmon fishers, who I say are very cruel to salmon should I be surprised if the salmoners object loudly to those accusations?
Here's a better analogy. I want to save the whitebait, and as part of that I point out the problems that dairy farmers are causing. Would that be fair? And if I had been doing this for years and had been called a cunt by Fed Farmers, and told to suck on the dairy farmers dick, what would you think of me standing up in public and calling Fed Farmers arseholes and liars?
It helps to know that the anger being thrown by GC women is often at TRAs, not trans people. Not always true, and KJK is a problem in this regard, but GCFs are clearly arguing about women's rights and targeting gender ideology and its activists.
We can test this btw, with a thought experiment. What would happen if GCFs ran an event called Women Will Speak, in a public space like in front of parliament, they get permits etc, and they intend to speak about women's single sex spaces, child safeguarding, women's culture and so on. Do you think they would be allowed, or do you think the TRAs would try and shut them down too?
OK Weka. I really can't argue. (Partly because I don't know what GCFs are or TRAs. Looked them up but no help.) There is a lot of anger being spent but the issues are far beyond me. I just think women have the right to express their fears/concerns but the women that I ask say, "What are you talking about?"
At a recent"Opera in the Park" the interval sent many of the 30,000 people heading to the toilet block. Of course the women had fewer cubicles and queued. Solution. Women entered the mens' toilets used the empty cubicles without a murmur from anyone. As an 80+ person I must just think too simply.
Your Opera in the Park story has two women's rights issues. One is that habitually we provide less toilets for women than are needed (women take longer in toilets than men, so we need more of them to serve the same number of people in a specific period of time).
The other is that males in women's spaces are a safety issue. Those issues don't generally exist with females in men's spaces.
I read somewhere that toilet block designers are quite fair in that they allocate the same area for men and women. But of course you can get more in the spaces for urinals than you can in the same size areas with cubicles. Now that is an issue that women could advocate for change.
women do advocate for that to change. They advocate for keeping women's toilets single sex for safety reasons as well. The two issues are intertwined, because in places like the UK, the push to have NB toilets means that women's toilets get converted and men's toilets get left alone. We end up with mixed sex toilets and men's toilets. That's institutional sexism just like the issue of how many women's toilets don't get built.
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 27 were:1. The Minister for Ford Rangers strikes againTransport Minister Simeon Brown was again the busiest of the Cabinet ministers this week, announcing an ...
You got a fast carAnd I want a ticket to anywhereMaybe we make a dealMaybe together we can get somewhereAny place is betterYesterday’s newsletter, Trust In Me, on the report of abuse in state care, and by religious organisations, between 1950 and 2019, coupled with the hypocrisy of Christopher Luxon ...
New Zealand is again having to reconcile conflicting pressures from its military and its trade interests. Should we join Pillar Two of AUKUS and risk compromising our markets in China? For a century after New Zealand was founded in 1840, its external security arrangements and external economics arrangements were aligned. ...
The ‘50 Shades of Green’ farmers’ protest in 2019 was heavy on climate change denial, but five years on, scepticism and criticism about the idea that pine forests can save us is growing across the board. File photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s the top six news items of note in climate ...
This morning the sky was bright.The birds, in their usual joyous bliss. Nature doesn’t seem to feel the heat of what might angst humans.Their calls are clear and beautiful.Just some random thoughts:MāoriPaul Goldsmith has announced his government will roll back the judiciary’s rulings on Māori Customary Marine Title, which recognises ...
In 2003, the Court of Appeal delivered its decision in Ngati Apa v Attorney-General, ruling that Māori customary title over the foreshore and seabed had not been universally extinguished, and that the Māori Land Court could determine claims and confirm title if the facts supported it. This kicked off the ...
Earlier this week at Parliament, Labour leader Chris Hipkins was applauded for saying that the response to the final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care had to be “bigger than politics.” True, but the fine words, apologies and “we hear you” messages will soon ring ...
TL;DR: In news breaking this morning:The Ministry of Education is cutting $2 billion from its school building programme so the National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government has enough money to deliver tax cuts; The Government has quietly lowered its child poverty reduction targets to make them easier to achieve;Te Whatu Ora-Health NZ’s ...
Kia ora. These are some stories that caught our eye this week – as always, feel free to share yours in the comments. Our header image this week (via Eke Panuku) shows the planned upgrade for the Karanga Plaza Tidal Swimming Steps. The week in Greater Auckland On ...
1. What's not to love about the way the Harris campaign is turning things around?a. Nothingb. Love all of itc. God what a reliefd. Not that it will be by any means easye. All of the above 2. Documents released by the Ministry of Health show Associate Health Minister Casey ...
Trust in me in all you doHave the faith I have in youLove will see us through, if only you trust in meWhy don't you, you trust me?In a week that saw the release of the 3,000 page Abuse in Care report Christopher Luxon was being asked about Boot Camps. ...
TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking about the Royal Commission Inquiry into Abuse in Carereport released this week, and with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent on a UN push to not recognise carbon offset markets and ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 26, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Transport: Simeon Brown announced$802.9 million in funding for 18 new trains on the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines, which ...
The northern expressway extension from Warkworth to Whangarei is likely to require radical changes to legislation if it is going to be built within the foreseeable future. The Government’s powers to purchase land, the planning process and current restrictions on road tolling are all going to need to be changed ...
Text within this block will maintain its original spacing when publishedFirst they came for the doctors But I was confused by the numbers and costs So I didn't speak up Then they came for our police and nurses And I didn't think we could afford those costs anyway So I ...
Photo by Joshua J. Cotten on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream ...
Notes: This is a free article. Abuse in Care themes are mentioned. Video is at the bottom.BackgroundYesterday’s report into Abuse in Care revealed that at least 1 in 3 of all who went through state and faith based care were abused - often horrifically. At least, because not all survivors ...
Luxon speaks in Parliament yesterday about the Abuse in Care report. Photo: Hagen Hopkins/Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:PM Christopher Luxon said yesterday in tabling the Abuse in Carereport in Parliament he wanted to ‘do the ...
About a decade ago I worked with a bloke called Steve. He was the grizzled veteran coder, a few years older than me, who knew where the bodies were buried - code wise. Despite his best efforts to be approachable and friendly he could be kind of gruff, through to ...
Some of the recent announcements from the government have reminded us of posts we’ve written in the past. Here’s one from early 2020. There were plenty of reactions to the government’s infrastructure announcement a few weeks ago which saw them fund a bunch of big roading projects. One of ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Thursday, July 25 are:News: Why Electric Kiwi is closing to new customers - and why it matters RNZ’s Susan EdmundsScoop: Government drops ...
Hi,I felt a small wet tongue snaking through one of the holes in my Crocs. It explored my big toe, darting down one side, then the other. “He’s looking for some toe cheese,” said the woman next to me, words that still haunt me to this day.Growing up in New ...
Yesterday I happily quoted the Prime Minister without fact-checking him and sure enough, it turns out his numbers were all to hell. It’s not four kg of Royal Commission report, it’s fourteen.My friend and one-time colleague-in-comms Hazel Phillips gently alerted me to my error almost as soon as I’d hit ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Thursday, July 25, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:The Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquirypublished its final report yesterday.PM Christopher Luxon and The Minister responsible for ...
The Official Information Act has always been a battle between requesters seeking information, and governments seeking to control it. Information is power, so Ministers and government agencies want to manage what is released and when, for their own convenience, and legality and democracy be damned. Their most recent tactic for ...
TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:Transport and Energy Minister Simeon Brown is accelerating plans to spend at least $10 billion through Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) to extend State Highway One as a four-lane ‘Expressway’ from Warkworth to Whangarei ...
I live my life (woo-ooh-ooh)With no control in my destinyYea-yeah, yea-yeah (woo-ooh-ooh)I can bleed when I want to bleedSo come on, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)You can bleed when you want to bleedYea-yeah, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)Everybody bleed when they want to bleedCome on and bleedGovernments face tough challenges. Selling unpopular decisions to ...
Please note:To skip directly to the- parliamentary footage in the video, scroll to 1:21 To skip to audio please click on the headphone iconon the left hand side of the screenThis video / audio section is under development. ...
Given the crackdown on wasteful government spending, it behooves me to point to a high profile example of spending by the Luxon government that looks like a big, fat waste of time and money. I’m talking about the deployment of NZDF personnel to support the US-led coalition in the Red ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:40 am on Wednesday, July 24 are:Deep Dive: Chipping away at the housing crisis, including my comments RNZ/Newsroom’s The DetailNews: Government softens on asset sales, ...
As I reported about the city centre, Auckland’s rail network is also going through a difficult and disruptive period which is rapidly approaching a culmination, this will result in a significant upgrade to the whole network. Hallelujah. Also like the city centre this is an upgrade predicated on the City ...
Today, a 4 kilogram report will be delivered to Parliament. We know this is what the report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care weighs, because our Prime Minister told us so.Some reporter had blindsided him by asking a question about something done by ...
TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Wednesday, July 24, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Beehive:Transport Minister Simeon Brownannounced plans to use PPPs to fund, build and run a four-lane expressway between Auckland ...
NewstalkZB host Mike Hosking, who can usually be relied on to give Prime Minister Christopher Luxon an easy run, did not do so yesterday when he interviewed him about the HealthNZ deficit. Luxon is trying to use a deficit reported last year by HealthNZ as yet another example of the ...
Back in January a StatsNZ employee gave a speech at Rātana on behalf of tangata whenua in which he insulted and criticised the government. The speech clearly violated the principle of a neutral public service, and StatsNZ started an investigation. Part of that was getting an external consultant to examine ...
Renting for life: Shared ownership initiatives are unlikely to slow the slide in home ownership by much. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:A Deloittereport for Westpac has projected Aotearoa’s home-ownership rate will ...
You're broken down and tiredOf living life on a merry go roundAnd you can't find the fighterBut I see it in you so we gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsWe gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsAnd I'll rise upI'll rise like the dayI'll rise upI'll rise unafraidI'll rise upAnd I'll ...
There’s been a change in Myers Park. Down the steps from St. Kevin’s Arcade, past the grassy slopes, the children’s playground, the benches and that goat statue, there has been a transformation. The underpass for Mayoral Drive has gone from a barren, grey, concrete tunnel, to a place that thrums ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Global society may have finally slammed on the brakes for climate-warming pollution released by human fossil fuel combustion. According to the Carbon Monitor Project, the total global climate pollution released between February and May 2024 declined slightly from the amount released during the same ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Tuesday, July 23 are:Deep Dive: Penlink: where tolling rhetoric meets reality BusinessDesk-$$$’sOliver LewisScoop:Te Pūkenga plans for regional polytechs leak out ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 23, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Health: Shane Reti announcedthe Board of Te Whatu Ora-Health New Zealand was being replaced with Commissioner Lester Levy ...
Health NZ warned the Government at the end of March that it was running over Budget. But the reasons it gave were very different to those offered by the Prime Minister yesterday. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon blamed the “botched merger” of the 20 District Health Boards (DHBs) to create Health ...
Long ReadKey Summary: Although National increased the health budget by $1.4 billion in May, they used an old funding model to project health system costs, and never bothered to update their pre-election numbers. They were told during the Health Select Committees earlier in the year their budget amount was deficient, ...
As a momentous, historic weekend in US politics unfolded, analysts and commentators grasped for precedents and comparisons to help explain the significance and power of the choice Joe Biden had made. The 46th president had swept the Democratic party’s primaries but just over 100 days from the election had chosen ...
TL;DR: I’m casting around for new ideas and ways of thinking about Aotearoa’s political economy to find a few solutions to our cascading and self-reinforcing housing, poverty and climate crises.Associate Professor runs an online masters degree in the economics of sustainability at Torrens University in Australia and is organising ...
The Finance and Expenditure Committee has reported back on National's Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. The bill sets up water for privatisation, and was introduced under urgency, then rammed through select committee with no time even for local councils to make a proper submission. Naturally, national's select committee ...
Some years ago, I bought a book at Dunedin’s Regent Booksale for $1.50. As one does. Vandrad the Viking (1898), by J. Storer Clouston, is an obscure book these days – I cannot find a proper online review – but soon it was sitting on my shelf, gathering dust alongside ...
History is not on the side of the centre-left, when Democratic presidents fall behind in the polls and choose not to run for re-election. On both previous occasions in the past 75 years (Harry Truman in 1952, Lyndon Johnson in 1968) the Democrats proceeded to then lose the White House ...
This is a free articleCoverageThis morning, US President Joe Biden announced his withdrawal from the Presidential race. And that is genuinely newsworthy. Thanks for your service, President Biden, and all the best to you and yours.However, the media in New Zealand, particularly the 1News nightly bulletin, has been breathlessly covering ...
A homeless person’s camp beside a blocked-off slipped damage walkway in Freeman’s Bay: we are chasing our tail on our worsening and inter-related housing, poverty and climate crises. Photo: Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy ...
What has happened to it all?Crazy, some'd sayWhere is the life that I recognise?(Gone away)But I won't cry for yesterdayThere's an ordinary worldSomehow I have to findAnd as I try to make my wayTo the ordinary worldYesterday morning began as many others - what to write about today? I began ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Monday, July 22 are:Today’s Must Read: Father and son live in a tent, and have done for four years, in a million ...
TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Orderimage, ...
Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
Te Rangi e tu nei (The sky above us) Te Papa e takoto nei (The land beneath us) Tatou katoa te hunga ora (To us all the living) Tena koutou katoa (Greetings) ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
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From the Human Rights Commission:
https://tikatangata.org.nz/news/52-organisations-sign-open-letter-demanding-action-on-ethnic-gender-and-disability-pay-gaps
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/486967/open-letter-calls-for-pay-gap-transparency-legislation
Pay transparency is one of the ways we as workers can build solidarity. Letting fellow workers know what we're getting paid makes it harder for an employer to have unjustified pay discrepancies. Many people would be surprised by the existence of these in their own workplaces, but without pay transparency they will never know about them. We look out for each other.
Sign the petition here: https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petitions/level-the-playing-field-and-pass-a-law-requiring-all-employers-to-be-transparent-about-pay-gaps
Yes the lack of pay transparency is something that always irked me. There is no possible justification for it other than giving management a tool to manipulate people with.
Nordic countries have pay transparency. I wonder whether this is due to their shared culture that it works and what would be needed to make it as comfortable for people here to accept:
https://www.ft.com/content/2a9274be-72aa-11e7-93ff-99f383b09ff9
Footage has been uploaded of the full incident that resulted in a women's black eye:
https://twitter.com/SimonRAnderson1/status/1640924419957874691?s=20
Going for inflammatory, huh!
Nice!
Avoiding evidence, huh?
Expected!
"She says she was in shock when she made a statement to a right-wing videographer shortly that white cis men are the main perpetrators of family violence, and she stands by her position that it is men rather than trans people who are the biggest threat to men."
https://waateanews.com/2023/03/29/bike-assailant-has-date-with-destiny/
What?
You aren't discussing the same topic, Robert.
(Remember the earlier comment on your reading comprehension?)
There's lots of evidence. I'm looking at all I can find.
This elderly woman, who has been described on TS by some as violently charging the assaulter:
https://twitter.com/Sorelle_Arduino/status/1639988067900481536?s=20
And here an elderly man cops it.
Perhaps the trans protestors thought they had found some fair-dinkum WWII Nazis to punch.
That elderly man is Ross Campbell and he's barking.
https://twitter.com/AusSkeptic/status/1640961166410407937
Maybe so. But no reason for him to get that sort of treatment though.
Starts in on a woman and becomes the victim … not part of the narrative ….
Honestly, to me it looked like he realised that security was having problems and moved forward to help out – that may be why he faced outwards once he reached the woman in the high-vis vest.
No one can be sure what his intention was.
This may be worth following for clarity.
Corina was one of the organisers of the #LetWomenSpeak event in Auckland, and Trinity Ice is the person in the video:
https://twitter.com/AuntyHeihei/status/1641200611650838529?s=20
For gods sake Joe 90. Listen to yourself. You are condoning violence
cause he's "barking"
So it's open season on the numptie Joe?
Your sense of justice is underwhelming
In the video you showed she was the aggressor to start with but i have been one of the first to say she deserves action when she lays charges, so you can fuck off with your smearing. The facts will hopefully come out and if she is an innocent party she deserves the full weight of the law behind her.
"…so you can fuck off with your smearing." ?
Linked to the beginning of the thread because you were not the only one with that perspective.
All I have done is given you more information. If that helps you come to a different and/or more settled perspective on what has happened, then just say so.
The footage has only been put up this afternoon, so was not available AFAIK beforehand.
How can you, with any sincerity, keep engaging on this subject and not acknowledge the sickening violence visited on this woman?
A senior citizen.
You are diminishing your mana.
No violence is acceptable. Full stop.
The woman was assaulted by a man, not the rainbow community – claiming otherwise is a slur on LGBQT people and is a form of hate speech.
“Simon Anderson”‘ (probably not his real name) is a prejudiced bigot.
But the LGBQT protesters celebrated the violence! I haven't heard one of them condmen it. They just had a big happy party afterwards.
Charging Coster with conspiratorial links with the Trans Community is insanity at its craziest. God help us if tripe like this is accepted as the norm.
Can't we even have Daily Review reserved for discussion of important issues without 'the gang' moving in to dominate the discourse.![sad sad](https://cdn2.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/ark-wysiwyg-comment-editor/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/sad_smile.png?x42494)
I referenced the video in regards to the woman. Here it is without the tweet:
https://youtu.be/DLhhEdGkB8s
I haven't been following the police response.
But the video photographer has also posted his 360 degree video during the breakthrough the barriers, which shows there were no police present, if that is of interest to you. You can find it on his other videos.
This video is far clearer of the situation than the one you postered earlier with dramatic music effects. This does show protesters moving in on the lady so I hope they are held to account, as i have said from the beginning.
Yes. It does show the information we were both lacking beforehand. It has taken the cameraman this long to process and upload.
I linked to your comment because it was the beginning of the thread, not because I thought you would hold that position after seeing the footage, and you were not the only one who held that up as a possibility, even I conceded it could be true.
(I didn’t like the added music on the original clip either, but I’m not the source – only posting to it because it was the only version I could find.)
Then why did you not post the video only to begin with.
Because I am on an old laptop, which is giving me grief at present. But I did include the specific:
"Footage has been uploaded of the full incident that resulted in a women's black eye:"
Besides I didn’t think it was inflammatory to say the police weren’t present – because they weren’t.
Fair enough. I wasn't speaking about the lack of police presence but rather the suggestion there was a police conspiracy.
Why the police were not front and centre from the start has yet to be determined. I suspect it was because they knew they would have been damned if they did and damned if they didn't so they kept their distance and waited to see what happened. Which, with the benefit of hindsight, was not the best thing to do.
I'm pretty certain in Posie Parkers own streaming when she arrived she walked passed some Police in the park. In hindsight not enough but I think there were some there.
AFAIK, Kellie Jay Keen has no criticism for the police, who stayed with her from the moment she left Albert Park till when she boarded the flight out.
My partner and daughter, who were at the event saw the police on the periphery, but not at the event itself. They walked though after the barricade came down, but they didn’t see them intervening. They saw a group again as they were leaving, but they were not intervening at all. A couple were looking at their phones with no concern about the event.
There has been some commentary over on Sean Plunket's Platform from various women – a couple of whom were involved in organising – about the communications with police, and the failure to intervene despite request. But it is a long show to get through – about three hours with all the parts. I think it is at the end of Part 2, where Katrina Biggs says she has a recording of the police saying that they didn't want to get involved in bad optics.
The videographer – Simon Anderson, who posted the video above, has also posted another video that you can move 360, to see how there was no police presence during that time.
"My partner and daughter, who were at the event saw the police on the periphery, but not at the event itself."
Sorry, to be clear. Not at the event itself before the barricades were taken down.
KJK post yesterday:
https://twitter.com/ThePosieParker/status/1640975849389268993?s=20
I don’t know why this is marked as sensitive. It’s a hot cross bun.
I admire anyones passion for a subject but this one has overtaken the site for a year. I suspect a few of us are ready to bail.
Quite a few already seem to have RBO.
Me too – The Standard has been my go to blog for several years – I'm an avid reader/follower and sometime commenter. I think I will bail out for a while too. I'm a white CIS (bordering on elderly) female with definitely feminist left wing views and have been dismayed by some of the rhetoric espoused by some commenters. Kelly-Jay Keen certainly does not speak for me, along with 'Let Women Speak', nor 'Voices for Freedom'.
And from another.
It used to be such fun!
Now it’s the stroppery 🙂
Anne – I can recall many times when you have related stories from your own experience of untoward things happening in the Public Service.
Given that:
then it is within the bounds of reason to suspect or speculate that something untoward has happened. We had better hope that nothing like this has happened, because if someone blows a whistle on this it could well bring this PM down.
Your opening salvo Redlogix;
I did get to the bottom of it but am not at liberty to say anything. Suffice to say the PS as such proved not to be the guilty party. A complex situation that I had the misfortune to have found myself embroiled in through circumstances outside my control.
I think you are correct to be a little alarmed on this. I have generally stayed out of the gender politics of all this furore, but you have to admit there have been some intriguing things falling out from it.
As I suggested – the dots are all there – if someone manages to join them together credibly the shit really will hit the fan. It's rarely the crime, but the cover-up that gets you.
It turns out for instance, that Nash's three year old emails to some donors in his electorate did not involve any opportunity for personal gain, but were a breach of Cabinet confidentiality. He had to go, but this was careless more than corrupt and scarcely the crime of the century.
However it seems the PM's office has been sitting on the knowledge of these emails for at least two years – and this may well turn out to matter a great deal more.
The thing is RL there is so much going on these days which are alarming to the point of deadliness and really need the undivided attention of our leaders both in NZ and elsewhere.
I recognise gender issues are important to some people but compared to the rapidly increasing effects of CC and the level of chaos that is gradually overtaking the world (and behind most of it is CC) this is a peripheral issue that is being used, imho, to add to the chaos that already exists.
Of course there are faults on both sides. No-one is saying there isn't. But the level of maniacal (if I may use such an emotionally charged word because I can't think of another one 🙁 ) accusations being thrown around with abandon is getting beyond the pail.
Hang on a mo while I check whether its pail or pale. 😎
Edit: Oops. I’m wrong. Its “pale”.
Yup – I can largely agree with this. Still it is the nature of this site that some topics will absorb a disproportionate amount of bandwidth – Julian Assange springs to mind – for far longer than seems reasonable.
We will get past this eventually.
I forgot the Assange case. You're right. That turned into one hell of a bun-fight. It became an utter bore iirc.
The problem though, Anne, is for some worried about climate change, poverty, the housing crisis, the health services, water quality, education and the cost of living, the current politicians are equally ineffective at addressing these issues.
The impact of gender ideology may seem to you to be purely of women's rights – but the lack of clinical evidence for harsh and medical treatment of our minors is appalling to me. It surpasses the "unfortunate experiment" scandal, and the more recent mesh implants that took over a decade before it was even looked at.
This is not about passing judgment on those that choose to present and live in any particular way, it is about the failure of government policies to consider the wider impacts, and possible negative harms of changing sex markers on documents and systems instead of adding gender identity ones.
Could not agree more. Shocking lack of accountability and measures put into place to stop them from happening.
This is the thing. We have all been talking past each other and in actual fact we likely agree on more than we disagree on. I accept I'm as much to blame as anyone else.
My biggest issue is that my reasonably well tuned antennae tells me PP is not as genuine as she makes herself out to be. We are going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
I don't care about agreeing on Kellie Jay Keen.
People are failing to acknowledge that NZ women's voices were silenced on the weekend.
Melbourne's #LetWomenSpeak event had seventeen women expressing their concerns and or experiences in public, despite the presence of several protest groups – including NeoNazis.
All it took to silence women in NZ, was one group – the 'peaceful' rainbow community and allies. Many NZ women were denied the opportunity to speak, and others to listen. The threat was real, injuries were sustained and NZ media and commentators celebrated.
(It appears the elderly woman punched in the face has a fractured skull.)
https://twitter.com/MKorero/status/1641045431168946176?t=FqIdfAdBUErIS1cYDxnbrg&s=19
Heh, re. the Daily Review suggestion, it could be AA – Anne Approved.
This deserves a whole post of its own.
https://twitter.com/minhealthnz/status/1640082868004179969
It does. I hope there is some movement on looking for the supporting clinical evidence, as is implied further down the thread.
There seems to be an acknowledgment of other findings, with mention of Sweden and the UK.
All that has been requested is the best level of care for those with gender identities.
A possible breakthrough.
That’s most interesting!
https://www.health.govt.nz/about-ministry/information-releases/responses-official-information-act-requests/information-regarding-puberty-blockers
https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/healthy-living/transgender-new-zealanders [updated 2 days ago]
scroll back to Weka at 5 Incognito. Ministry of Health says much of Marc's article is false. Wheres Kate Hannah and the Disinformation when you need her?
Sort of inevitable as the UK took notice of the Swedish evidence and after the closure of Tavistock etc. Awareness of risk thus more care …
I think the lack of funding to appropriate counselling and mental health provision needs to be seriously rectified. (NB: I am not implying that all transgender people are mentally ill, but this demographic has a lot of co-morbidities and would materially benefit from such investment.)
With a centralised health system, we are also in a good position for good data collection, monitoring and both long and short term follow up of any delivered healthcare treatments.
I'd also like to see specialised care data and programmes for medical detransitioners. At present they seem to be both unrecognised and ill served by the medical profession.
It appears any further money on this could be redirected to needed services without harm:
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2303/S00117/hrc-struggles-for-conversion-therapy-complaints.htm
For those following the reversal in many countries and jurisdictions of the "affirming healthcare" model for minors due to clinical literature reviews, the current situation in Alabama might be worth keeping an eye on.
A district judge has issued a subpoena to WPATH for documentation:
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/boe-marshall-ruling-usdc-ala.pdf
yeesh, legalise. Is that saying no, the court won't take WPATH's word for it? (whatever it is).
IIRC, Alabama is doing a clinical literature review for the practice of "affirming health care". As part of this, they asked WPATH to provide documented evidence of their published guidelines.
WPATH refused, and the next step was going to court to issue a subpoena – which has now been done.
So, I'm assuming once these documents have been released – if no other impediment obstructs that – many others will be interested in viewing that evidence.
Some background:
https://www.alreporter.com/2023/01/03/in-case-over-transgender-health-care-ban-medical-groups-seek-to-quash-state-subpoenas/
https://1819news.com/news/item/federal-judge-rules-in-favor-of-alabama-in-its-continued-fight-to-ban-transgender-medecine-and-surgeries-on-minors
Similarities with Tavistock, although in that case they both refused to release files and it turns out they hadn't been keeping adequate records.
this really is very excellent though, and great timing with MoH reviewing its own information which apparently uncritically accepted WPATH as a source.
Yes, fingers crossed that all this information comes together at the right time, if the Ministry of Health is doing a robust review behind the scenes.
If even a small part of you wishes we could all have better conversations here, you might well get something from this:
You might not want to know that he's got a few videos up from universities about gender ideology, but he touches on a lot of topics and demonstrates some methods:
https://www.youtube.com/@drpeterboghossian/playlists
I listened. I wish he'd been given more time to expand his ideas.
Peter Boghossian just posted his delayed interview with Kellie-Jay Keen Minshull:
https://youtu.be/Q5YqYbYf1cw
Thanks – will listen.
Have it on in the background ATM.
"that's just romance for you"![laugh laugh](https://cdn2.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/ark-wysiwyg-comment-editor/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/teeth_smile.png?x42494)
Thread on implications should Netanyahu and co succeed with their judicial fuckery.
https://twitter.com/CarrieALee1/status/1640899702404132867
I must have woken up at the wrong side of a wormhole because Sean ‘Ungrateful Hua’ Plunket appears now more revered on TS than Marama Davidson.
Not a place I want to be where the only media platform that was given to those women that wanted to speak was with Sean Plunket. Yet here we are.
Can you link to an approved left-wing platform that offered the same?
I wasn’t talking about his platform (all in lower case) but about Plunket vs. Davidson. I wonder how you feel about our revered SYSOP …
"I wonder how you feel about our revered SYSOP …"
Why would you ask that? Is that deflection?
In your case, it would be. In this (my) case, it is logical continuation, or extrapolation, as you’d call it, of the same argument about one platform provider being revered for providing a platform.
Yes. I think this is for two reasons; one is that The Platform is one of very few media sources who takes no govt funding. This gives them scope to say things many others are not touching.
The other is that while the right wing bias is plain and obvious, Plunkett is willing to have the conversation with pretty much anyone who will pick up the phone. For instance today he had Bradbury on as a guest, and while they are clearly far apart politically it was nonetheless an interesting, lively and respectful conversation.
For decades the left believed that the media was deadset against them, providing a constant and troubling political headwind. Frequently it felt like our voice was ignored, suppressed or silenced and as a result a decade ago TS held 'freedom of speech' as a core and vital value.
Well that started to shift around 2014 as I recall it – and the free speech baton has definitely passed over to the right. It would be instructive to reflect why.
When freedom of speech is the expression of personal freedom and choice, it is an expression and extension of neoliberalism. As such, it is the be-all-end-all.
When freedom of speech is the medium/vehicle to break down class structures in/of a class society, it is an expression and extension of socialism. As such, it is a means-to-an-end.
TS still holds freedom of speech (without scare quotes) at its core and vital value – I wouldn’t be here otherwise. It charges nothing, it costs very little to run (so Lynn keeps telling us), and runs 100% on unpaid volunteers.
Not all speech is equal. Some is noise, hot air, or cacophony – click-bait, sensational headlines, and shock-jocks vying for viewers or listeners to keep the advertisers and shareholders happy. Some may sometimes even come close to intelligent debate.
Well I am glad you think so. From my perspective I could easily list a handful of topics that I no longer feel safe to talk about here.
I think we crossed over this Rubicon when we decided to start banning climate change deniers – I can't blame anyone for this, I fully supported it myself at the time; everyone was over dealing with their more idiotic arguments. But it was a habit easier started than stopped.
Probably because that's when the US Fox News began to portray the MSM as biased against the GOP. Q and the birther movement had arrived. The right wing here just follow their cultural imperialist lead.
Fox News as champions of free speech against the liberal Obama era “MSM” approved regime.
I listened to Plunket many, many times, in an effort to pin down his techniques and drivers.
NO to that man.
It is however worth listening to the women he is platforming currently. The reason we have to listen on SP's show is because No Debate has meant left leaning (and in NZ, also centrist) media won't usually cover gender critical women's views. That's why we still don't know what the NZ women were going to say at the event. Unless we listen to The Platform, or SM.
Not for the faint hearted. I made myself look.
https://twitter.com/babybeginner/status/1640395964820209676
This is pretty egregious, to accuse others of Holocaust denial. Other than the percieved 'misattribution' of Nazism to those opposed to trans rights what evidence is there to make such a claim? Are you not aware of the Nazi book burnings, destruction of the Institute of Sex Research?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the whole hyperbole, lets reinvent the meaning of words thing. All sides are doing. So I wouldn't use the word denial myself, I'd probably call it thoughtlessness or dissociation.
her point stands though. Calling terfs nazis minimises what Nazis are and were, and waters down a bunch of concepts and meanings. That's the point of her thread, to remind people what they're referencing.
Btw, I was aware of the book burnings. In 2023, it's the gender identity activists are that are burning books, cancelling people, and running No Debate.
Evidence of gender identity activists burning books please.
The point doesn't stand because her point is to accuse her opponents of holocaust denial.
When neo-nazis show up to support your rally it's evidence that they share parts of your ideology. The Nazi's didn't stop with the book burning, they didn’t just ‘cancel people’ or ‘run No Debate’, they persecuted all forms of homosexuality:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbians_in_Nazi_Germany
quick google search link https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11906395/Now-trans-activists-burn-Harry-Potter-books-JK-Rowling-ridicules-Australian-campaigner-video.html
There are others, it's a thing. The religious fundamentalists burn HP too. By your argument above, this means that TRAs and religious fundamentalists are in league together.
Now where did I say anti-trans and neo-nazi's are in league? I pointed out that the Neo-Nazis in Melbourne were there to support the rally, they were not asked to, they were not invited, they are not 'in league with each other' but they share an anti-trans agenda. Religious fundamentalists burned Harry Potter books because they thought it 'encouraged witchcraft', the singular TRA in the Daily Mail article you posted isn't even linked to directly and explains themself here:
https://twitter.com/tesshall/status/1639890013453438978
Once again I want express my disgust that accusations of Holocaust denial are being leveraged against people opposed to groups that have support from Neo-nazis and religious fundamentalists. It's ahistoric and unacceptable.
" I pointed out that the Neo-Nazis in Melbourne were there to support the rally,…"
Except their own published statement contradicts you:
https://xyz.net.au/2023/03/australia-says-no-to-groomers/
There is no reference at all to the #LetWomenSpeak event.
The article goes further on to say this about KJK and it is not complimentary:
I posted this article which contains the Telegram link to statement, but you have to sign up to read it. If someone does have a Telegram account which shows it has been reported wrongly here, I'd appreciate a correction.
This is disingenuous in the extreme. I'm saddened that this is where this 'debate' has led us.
What is 'acting as a vanguard' if it is not to support the protest?
From the white supremascist website you linked to:
While the Neo-Nazis might not agree with KJK entirely, they support her anti-trans positions. They say it themselves.
"What is 'acting as a vanguard' if it is not to support the protest?"
They say who they are protecting in their statement: "our children and our people".
Your fallacy of association is further exposed by viewing the livestream taken by someone else of the surroundings of the #LetWomenSpeak event, which shows absolutely no contact or interaction between the two groups (there were several different groups there on the day):
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=229529329488872
https://twitter.com/i/status/1640480708794920960
@arkie
That's not evidence. It's some guy's reckons in a car, without back up corroboration. Also, he doesn't reference the #LetWomenSpeak event specifically.
There were several groups there including a Christian Conservative group that protests on a weekly basis.
Could this reference be to them?
Contrast and compare with the #LetWomenSpeak livestream:
https://twitter.com/EdgeWatching/status/1637296808622985216?s=20
BTW, I also want to point out the the women should be held responsible for their statements, and what they say at the event.
They are not – however, responsible for excusing a pissing contest between boys in the background.
An open public event is open to the public.
None so blind as those who will not see.
I will again object to the original accusations of Holocaust denial, as well as the deflection and obfuscation displayed in this thread.
I ask; is this the kaupapa of robust debate that we want to see on this site?
@arkie
"None so blind as those who will not see."
Ya-huh.
https://youtu.be/PivWY9wn5ps?t=67
so they say, or to appropriate it. Neo Nazis turning out to support women's rights? I don't think so.
that's right, they weren't invited
yep.
nope. LWS and GC women are there to talk about women's sex based rights and child safeguarding. If you think there is an anti-trans message that the nazis share, please show us exactly what you are referring to. I don't think either of us believe the Nazis are interested in women's rights.
There have been multiple book HP book burnings, by TRAs and fundies. I'm pointing out that the link between them is as ridiculous as the link between Nazis and GC women.
No, they are there to spread their message and 'protect' the protest as they stated.
Here is an anti-trans message that the nazis share:
child safeguarding and paedophilic agenda being forced upon our children and our people.
The conflation of transpeople with sexual predators is the shared ideology.
Have some dignity, arkie.
You could just admit you were wrong.
The fact remains that in a open public space, there is no restriction to who turns up – whether they are supporters, neutral or protecting.
The women at that event are accountable for what they say, not for the reckons of blokes in the vicinity.
Pleease provide a link for that quote. If it's not a quote, then please provide some evidence for the claim. I'd like to see what the Nazis mean, because the sentence doesn't make sense. Who is forcing child safeguarding in this Nazi world view?
Child safeguarding is what we do in society currently. It's being eroded in places. Genderists block a conversation about that, not by crying "not all trans people" but by stating that trans people cannot be predatory on children (or women). Stop and think that one through and how it might be a problem for safeguarding.
The link is provided by Molly at 1:32pm above. It is a quote from leader of the NSN, Thomas Sowell on the reasons his group of neo-nazis were attending the LWS Rally.
What evidence backs up this claim?
Where has anyone claimed:
Evidence please.
From your previous comment,
The second part of that is in Molly’s link, the words ‘child safeguarding’ aren’t.
How is child safeguarding anti-trans?
I’ll post about child safeguarding being eroded later when I have more time.
The claim that TRAs say trans people cannot be predatory happens in two ways. One is directly, when they say that trans women don’t do sexual violence. There’s also the idea that trans women don’t have the same patterns of sexual violence that other men do. But more commonly it’s when women raise issues of safety in single sex spaces and they are told that it’s cis men that put women at risk not TW.
I will find examples of these when I have time too, the latter is common it shouldn’t be too hard.
You, at 1:52pm, said:
The neo-nazis said:
'Safeguarding/protecting children' from trans people is the common ideology. It's not based on fact, trans people are not inherently a threat to children, children can be 'safeguarded' without opposing trans rights. There is no evidence that transwomen have the 'same patterns of sexual violence' as men, the one study that is claimed to show that does not make that finding as the lead author has pointed out many times.
With what evidence do you dispute this statement: it’s cis men that put women at risk not [transwomen].
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/131632938/fact-checking-marama-davidsons-white-cis-men-claims-and-followup-statement
thank-you. I appreciate you spelling that out because now I have a better understanding of what you are saying. (I wish people would do this sooner not later, not just you, it’s been happening a lot).
I’ll break it down a bit.
Both sides are weaponising this, but I will note your silence on terf = Nazi and how many women have been told they are Nazis or Nazi sympathisers (another historical reference) for saying things like sex is dimorphic, or you can't change sex literally, or women have a right to single sex spaces. Things that most people believe, but many are now afraid to say outloud.
Even now you are twisting language yourself saying that GCFs are supported by Nazis.
So your objection to ahistorical comparisons is noted but it looks like yet another one side's spin.
Fucking hell.
I think Arkie you would be better to avoid knee jerk reactions. I am a woman who was thinking deeply about going to see PP to hear she and other women talk about their issues of concern. My gt fear was the violence that I was likely to met from transactivists. Being the same age as the woman who is now suffering a fractured skull this concern seems to be to have been justified.
I had no fear of neo Nazis as I knew that they had not been asked nor welcomed by PP (and I naively thought NZPolice would have been there to keep them away should they have turned up)
Since being on SM I have been called a Nazi.
Those opposed to women maintaining safe spaces and safeguarding the rights of children to be children have routinely called opponents to their messages, Nazis. I would never dream of calling anyone a Nazi.
Many of these are young people who are deliberately mutilating their own bodies, their own sexual reproductive organs in pursuit of what I call an identitarian cult.
I had one Uncle killed on Crete and at one stage my grandmother had one of her seven sons at home during WW2. Six were overseas fighting Nazis while the remaining one had been killed in WW1 at aged 16 fighting against the predecessors of the Nazis. There will be many other families whose grandfathers/mothers & greats fought against Nazis. I think it would be clear we would not support Nazis.
I do not feel that we should tolerate the wholesale calling of others Nazis as it is wrong.
The Nazis were a very specific part of our world history and nobody, but nobody should minimise them nor the impact they had on the free world.
I regret that you seem to be thinking that somehow it is Ok for people to call women's rights activists Nazis, neo Nazis, Nazis adjacent and now are we Holocaust deniers?
I understand the Jewish Council had said that they did not lobby against PP coming and felt that all who attended the rally should unite against Nazis/neo Nazis should they appear. I am not sure if they did or did not appear. I wonder if having called women’s rights supporters Nazis would the Rainbow crowd have even recognised the Nazis that did turn up.
https://www.todayfm.co.nz/home/national/2023/03/nz-jewish-council-hopeful-counterprotesters-at-posie-parker-event-can-unite-against-neonazis.html
It is perplexing as you seem to have fallen hook, line and sinker for the slur that women's rights activists are Nazis.
.
Nowhere have I claimed that 'women's rights activists’ are nazis.
The nazis that showed up to support them are nazis.
I agree with the Jewish Council that all should unite against nazis.
In Melbourne, all did not unite against the nazis: https://twitter.com/amy_sargeant_/status/1640480708794920960
I objected to the OP's accusation of Holocaust denial directed at those who opposed the nazis that showed up at the LWS rally.
You’ve said that a couple of times I think and I’m glad you are reiterating it. Because women’s rights activists (no quotes needed) are being called nazis by people arguing very similar positions as you. So you saying you’re not is a good thing and makes debate more possible, thanks.
The saying goes – Those who let Nazis drink at their bar, run a Nazi bar.
I'll make just one observation.
That on both sides there is the risk of cancel culture – but in the Cold War style, this side or that, it's first about getting control of their own "tribe".
KJK talks of annihilation of those women who are not on her side (while she does not clarify what she means – it sounds a bit like the 1970's schisms – division on division within feminism).
And the attacks on transsexual/transcum" by TRA's – they too have been called TERF'S and Nazis for (notably it is those born male doing it) for identifying as women in their physical form as much as they can.
I think you are right on both counts there.
That’s just absolutely shocking even when for decades we’ve seen these images. Fresh horror every time. I abhor the knee jerk reaction of slurs, it immediately denigrates the user in my eyes. Says more about them than the person they are using it against.
This elderly chap is nonplussed about the whole debate on TS.
If women wish to hold a meeting to express their hopes and their concerns they do have that right. If the speakers wanted to use the meeting to destroy a different group then they should expect to be reacted upon.
I am off to read simpler topics like National Act bad. Labour Greens good.
Do you think that is what Let Women Speak intends or does? If you do think that, why do you think that? If you don't think that, then why repeat it?
Huh? If I set up a meeting to express my views about say Save the Whitebait, and instead stigmatise salmon fishers, who I say are very cruel to salmon should I be surprised if the salmoners object loudly to those accusations?
Have you watched any of the LWS livestreams?
Here's a better analogy. I want to save the whitebait, and as part of that I point out the problems that dairy farmers are causing. Would that be fair? And if I had been doing this for years and had been called a cunt by Fed Farmers, and told to suck on the dairy farmers dick, what would you think of me standing up in public and calling Fed Farmers arseholes and liars?
It helps to know that the anger being thrown by GC women is often at TRAs, not trans people. Not always true, and KJK is a problem in this regard, but GCFs are clearly arguing about women's rights and targeting gender ideology and its activists.
We can test this btw, with a thought experiment. What would happen if GCFs ran an event called Women Will Speak, in a public space like in front of parliament, they get permits etc, and they intend to speak about women's single sex spaces, child safeguarding, women's culture and so on. Do you think they would be allowed, or do you think the TRAs would try and shut them down too?
OK Weka. I really can't argue. (Partly because I don't know what GCFs are or TRAs. Looked them up but no help.) There is a lot of anger being spent but the issues are far beyond me. I just think women have the right to express their fears/concerns but the women that I ask say, "What are you talking about?"
At a recent"Opera in the Park" the interval sent many of the 30,000 people heading to the toilet block. Of course the women had fewer cubicles and queued. Solution. Women entered the mens' toilets used the empty cubicles without a murmur from anyone. As an 80+ person I must just think too simply.
I yield.
Here's a link to the seventeen women who got to speak in Melbourne, divided by speaker – each with their own precis, duration and timestamp:
https://twitter.com/EdgeWatching/status/1637296808622985216?s=20
Thanks for the link Molly. I will not respond but I did listen.
no worries ianmac.
Your Opera in the Park story has two women's rights issues. One is that habitually we provide less toilets for women than are needed (women take longer in toilets than men, so we need more of them to serve the same number of people in a specific period of time).
The other is that males in women's spaces are a safety issue. Those issues don't generally exist with females in men's spaces.
I read somewhere that toilet block designers are quite fair in that they allocate the same area for men and women. But of course you can get more in the spaces for urinals than you can in the same size areas with cubicles. Now that is an issue that women could advocate for change.
women do advocate for that to change. They advocate for keeping women's toilets single sex for safety reasons as well. The two issues are intertwined, because in places like the UK, the push to have NB toilets means that women's toilets get converted and men's toilets get left alone. We end up with mixed sex toilets and men's toilets. That's institutional sexism just like the issue of how many women's toilets don't get built.