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Daily review 29/08/2019

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, August 29th, 2019 - 94 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

 

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

94 comments on “Daily review 29/08/2019”

  1. Chris T 1

    Pushing it to call her alt-right tbf.

    But the bloke she hung out with was an odd unit.

    • Incognito 1.1

      Pushing it to miss the scare quotes.

    • weka 1.2

      why wouldn't you call her alt-right?

      • Chris T 1.2.1

        Because she isn't that nutty righty, which is what is far right.

        She could probably be classed as far right on a bad day if you take her anti-immigration antics seriously, but there are plenty of left people who dislike immigration.

        Right, far right and alt right seem to be shifting in the days of the orange idiot.

        Now anyone who voted Republican and Trump seems to be classed as far right in the US at the mo'.

         

         

        • greywarshark 1.2.1.1

          So she is on a par with you, not far right or anything.

          • Chris T 1.2.1.1.1

            Now I'm far right?

            Lol

            Let me guess something

            You think the following are far right. Key, Hoskings and Peterson.

            My first sentence was supposed to be she isn't nutty righty enough to be alt right btw.

            Apologies

        • weka 1.2.1.2

          A couple of defining features of the alt right are being anti-feminist and white supremacist. Compared to far right libertarians like David Seymour, who run politics of privilege but are not particularly racist or misogynist. Southern looks alt right to me. It's why the meme is funny.

          • I feel love 1.2.1.2.1

            The meme is hilarious, but only for lovers of sweet irony. 

            • greywarshark 1.2.1.2.1.1

              I'm lost in the middle of far-out so sorry Chris T and thanks weka for defining the types of far and alt right,  I have a better idea now.

        • McFlock 1.2.1.3

          Now anyone who voted Republican and Trump seems to be classed as far right in the US at the mo'.

           

          Well, not anyone who voted for the orange wonder.

          Just the ones who hoped for the policies he's actually implementing. And the ones who chanted "build the wall" and "lock her up". And the ones who liked his birtherism about Obama. And a few others.

          As for voting for other Repuclicans, that a very broad brush. There might be some Republican candidates who don't jack off about child separations and indefinite detention. People who vote for those candidates might not be "far right".

    • joe90 1.3

      Yet here she is surrounded by actual neo fucking Nazis and throwing the same white supremacy hand signal as the Christchurch murderer.

      • McFlock 1.3.1

        So she promulgated the "replacement" theory, supported racist and far right groups, and had them provide her security.

        Sounds close enough to "far right" for the label to be reasonably descriptive.

      • mauī 1.3.2

        Sorry to break this to you Joe… but that is the hand signal for "OK"!

        • mac1 1.3.2.2

          If so, maui, to what is she and her group saying "Ok"? Is it, "I am happy to be at the centre of this group and I am Ok with their group associations and ideology?"

          I went once to hear speak a Nigerian Anglican priest. He fulminated against Islam. At the door afterwards I told him I could smell the gunsmoke. He said that he could tell from my body language during the speech that I was not in agreement. I certainly was not giving him the "OK" signal! The signals we give are more accurate than our words as to what we believe..

      • marty mars 1.3.3

        she is fully in – that hand signal says it all – cut from the same cloth – she just pretends better so she can make more money imo

        • Chris T 1.3.3.1

          Eddie Murphy was apparently a white supremacist

          • marty mars 1.3.3.1.1

            pretend ignorance is so you chris – but it's not enough pretend buddy – please try hard

            • Chris T 1.3.3.1.1.1

              If a bunch of idiot white supremacist arseholes decide to take up hand shaking for a laugh and it turns into "a sign", are you going to stigmatise anyone who shakes someones hand and make it a white supremacist thing?

              • weka

                if they're white supremacists, sure.

                • Chris T

                  All good

                  A few idiots on 8Chans joke worked

                  • weka

                    So here's the point. The alt-right cultures are using common symbols, memes etc to both communicate with each other and confuse and mock the general public and create confusion. People might find it funny up to the point we remember that the Chch mosque mass murderer is one of the people who used the sign, and organised and networked on 8chan.

                    • Chris T

                      That is one way to look at it.

                      The other way is a few white supremacist idiots on sites like 8Chan are taking the piss and normal people are falling for it and some other alt right idiots are falling for it and taking it seriously and doing the "symbolism" and every day things are suddenly made bad because of a few loud normal peoples over reaction and triggering.

                      Should just ignore the obvious trolling, and it tends to go away after a month or two.

                    • weka

                      One of those white supremacist idiots murdered 51 Muslims.

                      I don't know who you think should be ignoring them, but your comment doesn't make sense. They're quite obviously not going away.

                       

                  • McFlock

                    Yes. And they love to keep recycling the "joke". The shared humour serves exactly the same group bonding and self-identification purpose as "serious" gestures.

                     

                  • McFlock

                    The other way is a few white supremacist idiots on sites like 8Chan are taking the piss and normal people are falling for it and some other alt right idiots are falling for it and taking it seriously and doing the "symbolism" and every day things are suddenly made bad because of a few loud normal peoples over reaction and triggering.

                    If it's an in-joke for some far-right fuckwits and a serious symbol for other far-right fuckwits, then calling it a far-right fuckwit behaviour is not an over-reaction. To point it out is a public service, because we know what happens when far-right fuckwits hide in the dark for too long.

                     

                     

  2. The Chairman 2

    We have a problem Minister, it needs to be dealt and it means resources, stop blaming years of underfunding and start funding us correctly – New Zealand Resident Doctors' Association's national secretary, Deborah Powell

    She said the association didn't want to hear excuses about the previous Government's lack of funding.

    Association of Salaried Medical Specialists executive director, Ian Powell, said patients' lives were being put at risk in large part because of a severe shortage of specialists and other staff in emergency departments.

    "Health Minister David Clark and National health spokesman Michael Woodhouse are bickering about whose government is to blame for the mess our EDs are in," he said.

    "The truth is both politicians' respective parties have been like floundering fish when it comes to running the public health system."

    Australasian College for Emergency Medicine president elect, Dr John Bonning, said if it was an a emergency patients would be treated, but for others there can be an offloading delay, which can affect patient outcomes. If somebody is waiting with angina that might be turning into a heart attack, if somebody has a critical infection that can get worse. There are some time critical conditions that might not be immediately obvious when they first come in. There needed to be more surgical and medical ward resourcing, so patients can be admitted to those wards, to take the strain off EDs.

     St John medical director Dr Tony Smith said this (ambulance ramping) reduces the availability of ambulances to respond to the next emergency in the community.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/397757/doctors-concerned-over-safety-risks-of-ambulance-ramping

    Seems the previous Government's lack of funding line is wearing thin.

    [I’ve fixed the formatting so it’s clearer what you are quoting, please be more careful in future – weka]

    • solkta 2.1

      You've warn so thin that you are transparent.

      • The Chairman 2.1.1

        Stop playing the man and address the topic.

        • solkta 2.1.1.1

          The topic was you being a smelly troll, as always. 

        • Dukeofurl 2.1.1.2

          Its called shroud waving Chairman

          • The Chairman 2.1.1.2.1

            So you don't believe there is an actual problem?

            The Minster hasn't denied it or suggested as such. In fact, he (the Minister) acknowledged the problem saying it can't be solved overnight. 

    • The Chairman 2.2

      Back to the topic (for those who care about it) the current Minister's excuse doesn't stack up.

      Yes, it does take years to train both senior nurses and clinicians but why can't he source more (already trained) senior nurses and clinicians from offshore to fill the current shortfall? 

      • Incognito 2.2.1

        What exactly is the Minister’s excuse and for what?

        Where do you suggest they should be recruiting, the UK and Australia?

        Do you think it simply is a matter of funding?

        • The Chairman 2.2.1.1

          From the article linked above

          Dr Clark said the problem can't be solved overnight.

          "These resources are people, their training takes a long period of time, both senior nurses and clinicians take upwards of seven years to train," he said.

          I'm not that fussed where he sources them from as long as they are fit for purpose.

          And yes, I do think it comes down to funding, more precisely, their BRR. Additionally, what they have chosen to prioritise. So much for wellbeing and the year of delivery.

          • Incognito 2.2.1.1.1

            With all due respect, that is not an excuse as such, is it? The Minister wasn’t really excusing anything.

            You should be “fussed where he sources them from as long as they are fit for purpose” because either you are ignorant of the problem or you are disingenuous. You don’t seem to realise or acknowledge that good qualifications, be it for teachers, nurses or doctors, for example, are in hot demand globally and it is a highly competitive market.

            Is it enough to advertise? Can they step straight into their new position without additional education and/or training?

            I disagree that it simply is a matter of throwing a few dollars at it. If it were that simple (!), the problem would be solved by lunchtime. Evidently, it isn’t this simple.

            • The Chairman 2.2.1.1.1.1

              With all due respect, that is not an excuse as such, is it?

              I believe so. First off, no one in their right mind thinks it can be solved overnight. But even the professionals in the sector expect it to be solved within a reasonable time as would most. So that line (overnight) is a total joke really.

              And stating locals take time to train is an excuse, because doctors can be and are brought in from offshore. I haven't seen a Kiwi doctor on both occasions I've been in there of late, they have all be from offshore. Ireland is a popular place to source them from. They love it over here.

              Yes, there is a global demand for doctors, etc, that's where money helps to attract them along with our lifestyle.

              Can they step straight into their new position without additional education and/or training?

              Probably not, but it wouldn't take several years to do that. Again, coming back to a more reasonable, thus acceptable (within the profession and public's mind) time frame.

              • Incognito

                Ok, it seems we’re not going to agree.

                IMO an excuse is when someone doesn’t really want to fix the problem or doesn’t want to do anything about it. I don’t think that applies here as is evident from your link @ 2.

                Many love it over here. Some come and some stay and some move on. Life is quite expensive over here, especially in the main centres. Teachers and nurses struggle with housing costs and even medical specialist gasp at (choke on) living expenses. Their (recent and overdue) pay rises are just a drop in a bucket.

                Additional or re-training won’t take seven years or so but even so, it will take time and depends on capacity as well, i.e. somebody has to oversee and undertake this. We’re not talking about WOF inspectors or builders and we are not talking about just a simple written exam to check off things.

                What is considered a “reasonable” or “acceptable” time frame depends on one’s perception and understanding of the situation. An ignorant or gullible person could easily be made to believe that a few dollars and a few weeks is all that is needed …

                • The Chairman

                  IMO an excuse is when someone doesn’t really want to fix the problem or doesn’t want to do anything about it.

                  As you can see from the initial post, that's the feeling the professionals in the sector have i.e. he's not doing enough to correct the problem. Hence, they are speaking out and it is they that are sick of the excuses. 

                  Life is quite expensive over here

                  Yes, many I came across stated that. Hence they would have to pay well. Which, of course, comes down to money.

                  What is considered a “reasonable” or “acceptable” time frame depends on one’s perception and understanding of the situation. An ignorant or gullible person could easily be made to believe that a few dollars and a few weeks is all that is needed.

                  I'm sure the professionals in the linked article (above) have a good understanding of this.

                  • Sacha

                    The Minister and his cabinet colleagues are awaiting the full health system review led by Heather Simpson. How much change do you expect them to make in the meantime?

                    • The Chairman

                      Yes, another review (buying them time as some say).

                      The professionals in the link above expect better and in a far quicker time frame than what the Minister is offering.

                      Moreover, they would know as they are in the sector, thus are speaking with knowledge.

                      Ponder this

                      How would you feel if you or a loved one was caught up in this and something bad happened. Would you and others here still be defending them then?

                      This isn’t a political game, lives are at risk here.

                    • roblogic

                      @The Chairman Systemic and chronic underfunding of social services is a natural result of letting neoliberals run amok with cost cutting and demanding profits from the public sector, with a view to privatising the lot. The model for the last 40 years has failed, glad to see you recognise that

                    • Sacha

                      Of course health professionals and their unions want action immediately in their parts of the system. Does not mean it is possible, nor that they grasp the whole picture.

                      However there are things beyond increasing workforce than can be started now, so I do not buy the Minister hanging everything on that.

                    • The Chairman

                      Of course health professionals and their unions want action immediately in their parts of the system. Does not mean it is possible, nor that they grasp the whole picture.

                      Are you implying health professionals and their unions are extremists demanding action that can't be met? Moreover, they have no grasp of what is doable in their profession?

                      I'm confident our health professionals and their unions have more grasp of the matter than you do.

                    • Sacha

                      Health practitioners are hired to deliver healthcare within their particular scope pf practice, not to manage competing priorities across disciplines or delivery timeframes for change programmes.

                      It's like expecting a bus driver to know about road network planning or rail electrification. They can see a need for better timetables and more colleagues to share the load, sure.

                    • The Chairman

                      Health practitioners are hired to deliver healthcare within their particular scope pf practice…

                      Being on the front line in delivering healthcare within their particular scope of practice gives them a very good insight on what is required to improve that delivery, opposed to a manger stuck behind a desk that doesn't really have a clue on the daily ins and outs. 

                      Moreover, Unions have a wider oversight, giving them a far broader view, thus insight.

                      Additionally, so does the Minister and his advisers, which are meant to be there to help. Yet the best he can come up with when pressed on the matter is he can't fix it overnight, he's holding a review and it will take several years to train up more. He seems to have had a better grasp on the matter when he was in opposition, but now that he's in charged, requires a review. Which will no doubt largely rely on the insights of the Union and staff. 

                      Two years they have been in power and we are still awaiting a review, meanwhile more lives are being put at risk. Frankly, it's not good enough, hence the outcry. Do better.  

                       

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    Chair, as a self-proclaimed friend of the left, do you reckon NZ's public health service/sector/system would be better placed to serve the NZ public now if National rather than Labour/NZ1st/Greens had been (re-)elected in 2017?

                    Dr Jonathan "Safe Pair of Hands" Coleman may have had a vested interest in ensuring that NZ's public health sector was well and truly ***ked over 'looked after'.

                    "Acurity Health Group chief executive Jonathan Coleman wants to see more patients from the public system receiving DHB-funded care in the private system."
                    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/113573194/new-105m-wakefield-hospital-wants-to-offer-more-treatment-for-public-patients

                    Let’s hope these Tory scroungers, troughers chancers and their ilk are out of action for a while.

                    • The Chairman

                      Chair, as a self-proclaimed friend of the left, do you reckon NZ's public health service/sector/system would be better placed to serve the NZ public now if National rather than Labour/NZ1st/Greens had been (re-)elected in 2017?

                      Of course not. But that is no excuse to allow Labour to get away with falling short too.  

                      There is little point of keeping them (National) out of power if Labour aren't going to be much better. If that is continually going to be the case, it's long past time we on the left look for better representation or press Labour harder. 

                    • Incognito []

                      Spot the telltale signs of ingrained anti-Labour bias:

                      Of course not. But that is no excuse to allow Labour to get away with falling short too.

                      There is little point of keeping them (National) out of power if Labour aren’t going to be much better. If that is continually going to be the case, it’s long past time we on the left look for better representation or press Labour harder. [my bolds for clarity]

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Chair, you're making no sense.  Surely there is a great deal of point to keeping the National party's self-serving wreckers ('Working for NZ'; 'Brighter Future' – my arse) out of power if the current coalition government is doing even slightly better.

                      You yourself just acknowledged (@10:58 am) that the NZ public health service would be less well placed to serve the NZ public now if a National government was still in charge – well done!

                      Party vote Labour/Green! wink

                    • The Chairman

                      The fact Labour are only slightly better than National is a main reason many people I know no longer vote at all. They no longer see a point as they know they are largely screwed either way.

                      And the more people on the left don’t vote the more our politics moves to the right.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      The fact Labour are only slightly better than National” is your opinion, repeated ad nauseam here in your disingenuous “lefty” “more left than most” fashion.

                      IMHO the current coalition government (with all its constraints) is a much better government for all New Zealanders than a National-led government ever could/would be.

                      Party vote Labour/Green yes

    • Grafton Gully 2.3

      There are alternatives. 

      onehealth.co.nz/urgent-care/after-hours-doctors/

       

    • weka 2.4

      mod note for you above.

  3. In Vino 3

    Chairman, you have been blowing your own cover for so long without cease that I think you may have some kind of compulsion disorder. You are now the concern troll with the longest record for pretending innocence while repeating the offence – trying to project your concerns into discredit for the Left.

    Even if, as Drowsy Kram so nicely reminds us, you consider yourself "more left than most." I guess that those 'most' are people who just feel 'alright'.

    • The Chairman 3.1

      As you can see from the responses to a serious issue, I'm clearly more left than most of you lot. Seems not many here are willing to talk the truth when it may harm Labour. Whereas, I'm of the belief of holding them to account to help bring about change for the better. 

      Nonetheless, I'm not the topic. Hence, care to try again? Or do you just want to join the mob and continue to throw crap at me?

      Care to answer why the Minister won’t act?

    • Robert Guyton 3.2

      The Chairman, thinks…

      "so long as I never admit it*, they'll never really know…"

      *titters

      • The Chairman 3.2.1

        Why would I admit to something I'm not?

        Once again, back to the topic. I'm surprised I've yet to hear the media pull the Minister up on his line they take time to train. I'd love to hear what he would say about not bringing in more from offshore?

        • McFlock 3.2.1.1

          Would the minister need to place the ads personally, or are these specialists just sitting on a shelf somewhere ready to relocate at a moment's notice with full NZ-compatible certification for their specialty areas?

          • The Chairman 3.2.1.1.1

            Ever been to hospital of late, it's like being at the UN.

            Sourcing doctors from offshore is nothing new, they've been doing it for years.

            I've recently experienced both sides of it. On an urgent matter, the service was great. But a on a not so critical visit, the wait time (although they did admit me in the end) was atrocious.

            • marty mars 3.2.1.1.1.1

              "Ever been to hospital of late, it's like being at the UN."

              hang on there mr chair more-left-than-most man – what exactly are you implying with that sentence because it reads a bit dicey to me. How can you tell a UN like person from a kiwi?

              • The Chairman

                Like the UN as in there are a multitude of races working in our local hospitals. They all have accents and none I came across were Kiwi.

                • marty mars

                  "They all have accents and none I came across were Kiwi."

                  accents you say? oh dear I think mr chair more-left-than-most man you are digging a bit of a hole – best to front up now and own the issue you have.

                  Of course you may have unnatural powers and abilities to discern a persons citizenry from their accent – daresay in some parallel universe you may be considered a marvel but as you've yet to confirm that ability here, then, the question is moot.

                  • Incognito

                    Medical language sounds quite foreign to most people. And some patients hallucinate under the influence of some medication. I’m glad to see that The Chairman has fully recovered and has is back to his former self and with us to share his pearls of newly gained wisdom during his obviously traumatic and eye-opening descend into the foreign-operated and woefully underfunded healthcare system of Aotearoa-New Zealand.

                  • The Chairman

                    Context, Marty. 

                    I wasn't claiming I know their citizenship status. Merely highlighting many are from offshore.  

                    Strong foreign accents is a good indication people aren't originally from here. And many I conversed with openly admitted they have recently come from abroad. Foreign doctors practicing here is nothing new. Just as Kiwi doctors heading offshore isn't a new concept. Many Kiwi doctors head to the UK in search of better pay. After all, they have large loans to pay off. 

                    • marty mars

                      sure mr chair more-left-than-most man you stick with that story. Truth is you let a cat out the bag and the cat is not nice at all and you know it. Your observations are unpleasant and bigoted imo – foreign this and that from accents is bullshit.

                  • The Chairman

                    No.

                    It is clearly evident you are clutching and are making accusations you can't sustain in an attempt to tar me in some way, Marty.

                    Stop playing the man and taking low blows.

            • McFlock 3.2.1.1.1.2

              So do you think they were sitting on a shelf waiting for a job in NZ? Or can the hiring of even one specialist from overseas become a process that takes years?

              After all you're the one who wrote upthread "I'm not that fussed where he sources them from as long as they are fit for purpose".

              Do you have any idea as to the process that ensures specialists sourced from overseas are assessed to be "fit for purpose"? Even if the minister snapped his fingers to bypass two or three levels of governance/management separation and removed every other barrier to employing staff, how long would you expect it to take to solve the problem?

               

               

              • The Chairman

                Strangely enough, most I've come across love to travel. My own GP even has worked in several countries before practicing here. And I've had several over the years as most came from overseas and have taken off again. It seems Kiwi ones largely do the same, which would explain why there aren't many here.

                “How long would you expect it to take to solve the problem?”

                Far less than several years, most I’ve come across don’t even stay here that long. And it seems (going off the article) those in the profession agree with me. They wouldn’t be complaining if the Minister’s excuse was legit.

                • Incognito

                  And it seems (going off the article) those in the profession agree with me.

                  It is the other way round.

                  • The Chairman

                    Yeah, it's a bit more complex than just turning up and saying "I'm an emergency cardiothoracic trauma surgeon".

                    First off, I never claimed it was that easy.

                    From your link

                    If you are applying for registration in a vocational scope and do not hold an approved Australasian postgraduate medical qualification such as a Fellowship, Diploma or Certificate, your training, qualifications and experience will first need to be assessed to see whether they are equivalent to those of a locally trained specialist

                    So how many doctors do you think hold an approved Australasian postgraduate medical qualification, enough for us to meet our current shortfall? 

                    Moreover, how many doctors in the world do you think hold qualifications and experience that can meet the assessment to see whether they are equivalent to those of a locally trained specialist?

                    One would expect globally, there would be thousands.

                     

                    • McFlock

                      You do realise ambulance ramping is a problem in Ausas well, right? So # specialists with Australasian qualifications = "not enough".

                      So then you have qualifications in other parts of the world, and assessing their experience and quals not just in the specialty, but also in general medical basics and things like medical ethics and dr-patient communication. Each of those needs formal and thorough assessment, while encouraging and sorting out immigration issues and general things like "is this doctor a sexual predator".

                      You seem to think it's about the number of trained doctors. It's not. It's about doctor availability, retention, and the attractiveness of working in the NZ health sector and the associated workplace conditions.

                      Very few of these are under ministerial control. Does the health sector need yet another shake-up, or would that just make things even worse?

                       

                       

                  • The Chairman

                    You seem to think it's about the number of trained doctors. It's not. It's about doctor availability, retention, and the attractiveness of working in the NZ health sector and the associated workplace conditions.

                    We require a higher number of trained doctors.

                    The higher the number of trained doctors available globally, the easier it is to source them. So numbers is part of it.

                    So to is money,

                    Money is required to help attract and retain them and this applies to locally trained ones too.

                    And speaking of locally trained ones, what is the Government doing to grow their numbers?

                    The thing is, DHB's are largely in financial stress. Thus, they require more money to better do this. Which is totally in the Government's hands.

                    Just because Australia is also under pressure doesn't mean we can't poach doctors from there. Again, money along with work place conditions helps with this which again, is largely under ministerial control.

                    And again, I never said finding those that meet our assessment needs was going to be easy, but it needs to be done to help solve this problem.

                    • McFlock

                      Again, money along with work place conditions helps with this which again, is largely under ministerial control.

                      Bullshit.

                       

            • Incognito 3.2.1.1.1.3

              Ever been to Med School of late, it’s like being at the UN.

          • The Chairman 3.2.1.1.2

            Of course they would need to advertise, Doctors aren't mind readers. And they would have to pay well. Nonetheless, many I've come across like it here.

            • McFlock 3.2.1.1.2.1

              ooo – DHB elections are coming up, ain't they? You could fix the problem in your DHB and show the minister how it's done. It'd really help you campaign for the nats next year, too, with the credibility you build up hiring new specialists.

  4. In Vino 4

    Rubbish. Why would you be surprised about the media not holding a Minister to account? That has been happening for years.

    You, Chairman, are surprised only on special occasions like this, which suit your dark, sinister, ulterior motives.

    I hope for a suitably creative reply.

    • The Chairman 4.1

      His (the Minister's) response begged the follow up question, that's why I was surprised it wasn't asked.

      Moreover, this isn't the first time I've heard him use those lines, yet I've yet to hear him be pulled up on it.

  5. joe90 5

    Private equity vampires have taken to sucking the life out of tropical rain forests.

    • joe90 5.1

      They could always fuck off back to Portugal.

       

      • marty mars 5.1.1

        Yep there is a real war going on and indigenous activists and environmentalists and protectors of the land are being murdered in alarming numbers. This scum will mow down many indigenous communities and people – we are about to lose whole cultures in that jungle and there is fuck all we can do about it.

  6. Fireblade 6

    For no particular reason, here is AC/DC – Let There Be Rock (Official Music Video)

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