Crims gangs and extremists

Written By: - Date published: 9:25 am, August 29th, 2019 - 24 comments
Categories: Amy Adams, Christchurch Attack, national, same old national, Simon Bridges, todd muller, uncategorized - Tags:

I almost feel sorry for National, almost.

When Labour’s or the Green’s base complain they ask questions about what are the left’s elected representatives doing about climate change, or inequality or child poverty?  And are they creating an inclusive tolerant society where everyone gets on and we just enjoy our diversity as well as everything we have in common.

We have a very clear view about how the world should be and ask questions if our elected representatives not getting us closer to that nirvana.

Right wing politicians are under similar pressure but from different quarters.  Like Dairy Farmers who want to maintain the current size of their herds 20 years in the future because it is good for business even though it is bad for the planet.

Or the New Zealand gun lobby who is that insensitive that despite the Christchurch massacre it insists on unfettered rights to bear arms, the sort that can kill a number of people in a very short time, even though this right in other countries has been directly implicated in things like mass shooting of school kids time and time and time again.

I used to admire John Key’s ability to look deep into the camera and express opinions that had been polled and focussed grouped within an inch of their lives.  It felt like he knew what we were thinking and it was because he knew what most of us were thinking.

How times have changed.

Now all I see is Simon Bridges saying stuff that is designed to shore up a deeply compromised base, rather than reach out to the middle ground in the way that made John Key so successful.

The latest example is National deciding that it is unlikely to support round two of the Government’s proposed changes to the gun laws.  And why?  Judging by this stand up interview where he repeated the phrase no less than nine times, crims, gangs and extremists.

Bridges has however attracted the wrath of one of the organisations normally very pro National, the Police.

From Collette Devlin at Stuff:

The New Zealand Police Association has called for political unity over gun reforms, urging MPs not to turn it into a US-style debate.

It comes as the National Party revealed it was unlikely to support next month’s second tranche of firearms legislation after a draft of the Bill was leaked.

The party claims the law leak reveals life would be harder for gun clubs; penalties would increase from $1000 to $10,000; that there were no genuine details about the proposed gun register; give police the power to judge what constitutes hate speech or extremism and force medical practitioners to notify police about concerns over the mental or physical condition of a firearms owner.

The gun club requirement seems perfectly reasonable. The particular gun club that the Christchurch shooter practised at has been described as the perfect breeding ground for mass shooting.

The guns register provision is also not unusual. This sort of thing would normally be fleshed through regulations like these so an early draft bill not having the detail is not surprising.

The requirement that Doctors report to the authorities seriously mentally ill clients with access to guns has attracted some opposition.

But the proposal is not a new idea.  Back in the 1990s the Thorp report recommended to the Government that the law be changed to permit “voluntary disclosure by health professionals, generally along the lines of the model legislation recently approved by the [Australasian Police Ministers’ Council], but in addition requiring that any opinion so disclosed be formed “on reasonable grounds”.”

Putting to one side privacy issues stopping people with significant mental health problems from having access to firearms seems like a pretty good idea to me.

There have been other contributions.

If the Police are saying that there should be no more mass shootings then I for one am very happy to do what they say.

The only place these gun centred heated culture war debates happen is in America.  Even in Australia after the Port Arthur massacre there was overwhelming consensus that guns capable of mass murder should be banned.

But National obviously thinks there is political mileage to be made here.  By shoring up support amongst a small group that has fairly extreme views about gun rights.

Maybe Bridges is playing four dimensional chess with us all and there is a stunning strategy that will make him popular.  But I can’t see it. 

All I can see is National surrendering the middle ground to the Government on this issue while at the same time decreasing public faith in political institutions.  Maybe it thinks this will result in a net gain for it.

I hope not.

24 comments on “Crims gangs and extremists”

  1. Matiri 1

    I think you mean Christchurch mosque shooting not Christchurch earthquake.

    [Right you are now corrected – MS]

  2. Anne 2

    @ micky

    In the fourth paragraph, do you not mean the Christchurch massacre?

    [Right you are now corrected – MS]

  3. Dukeofurl 3

    The supply of   'guns to crims' has always been via legal owners.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11245846

    An unemployed Auckland man spent $50,000 on firearms then sold them to gang members and other criminals.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10546816

    One of the guns among Hot Water Beach collector John Mabey's missing pistols, submachine guns and semi-automatic rifles has been identified as the weapon used in a fatal shooting. 

     

    Time and time again in fatal shootings , those with guns that werent legal  under the old laws obtained them through legal owners

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/336738/whangarei-shooting-man-charged-with-supplying-guns

    • Lucy 3.1

      for which he was sentenced to 21 months for selling restricted guns – he should have been charged with being an accessory to murder!

  4. mauī 4

    This seems incredibly fucked up, even for National. Unless you think everyone has a permanent right to bear arms I cannot think of why you wouldn't want doctors to pass on medical information re fitness to have firearms.

    One would also think that if you're grown up enough to get help from a doctor for mental health issues, that you would also be prepared for the possibility of losing some of your gun rights. 

    National merely treats mental health like a game. Even for their base, like rural farmers who are highly susceptible to mental illness they don't seem to give a stuff.

  5. Peter Christchurch NZ 5

    Well I guess National (or Bridges at least) just handed the 2020 election victory to Labour. 

    Totally tone deaf and out of touch with what the majority view in NZ is. Unbelievable.

  6. WeTheBleeple 6

    Unfortunately (some of) the people who are angry about their gun rights are also largely racist, sexist and homophobic. I know this for a fact as I am related to some and regularly monitor their and their friends social media to remind myself why some family are not worth knowing – and to dob them if they look to be getting organised. It takes a village to protect a village. Doctors should be allowed to talk to coppers if it will save lives (including the lives of the disturbed). 

    National like to sow hate and discord. They and their followers have a sickness of the soul.

  7. michelle 7

    We the Bleeple national don't have soul

  8. greywarshark 8

    This from Gordon Campbell at Scoop about Fischer Deputy PM in Oz.   He has just died but is remembered for his principled, brave and determined stand against the gun lobby there.    They had the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania, and we have had the Christchurch massacre.    Tim Fischer was one Australian politician I can really admire.    And he was a leader of the Oz National Party.    Surely the NZ National Party hasn't sunk so low in integrity that it is below that of the Australian one?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1908/S00151/gordon-campbell-on-nationals-cheap-politics-on-gun-reform.htm

  9. Wensleydale 9

    It's hard to see how this is a plus for National. I mean, I know they're desperately flailing around for something, anything to make them relevant before the coming election, but hitching your wagon to a pack of unhinged gun-fetishists seems a misstep in an ongoing series of missteps.

    Which is nice because they're a pack of dishonest, self-serving parasites and I hope they lose.

    • Peter Christchurch NZ 9.1

      Well put Wensleydale. Total agreement with you. They are toast now.

      • Dukeofurl 9.1.1

        Bridges likes to forget the time he was a prosecutor,  all those murders using rifles  didnt come from nowhere – once they had  'legal owners'

  10. greywarshark 10

    Honey is sweet eh.   Not connected with crims which leave a sour taste.  But criminality and unprincipled behaviour encouraged by National's attitudes will spread further in NZ and our chances of building a resilient future are at risk from the self-centred, unco-operative competitive attitudes encouraged in our neolib economy.

    A family bee company in the Far North has had all its hives smashed and lost 2,500,000 bees as a result. Will they have to guard their business?   Limiting gun holdings, and issuing licences that covers gun dealing will be very necessary as time gets tougher.   There are aggressive determined men with a sense of entitlement and hostility out there in rural land.   There also needs to be assistance for people to build their own living, and mentoring, so as to reduce the resentment that fosters the anger that leads to such acts as destruction of another's business.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12262529

    Family reeling after 50 beehives destroyed in deliberate attack/i
    Between 40,000 and 60,000 bees are in each hive at this time of year, so a total of about 2,500,000 have been lost.

    Beehive thefts were fairly common at the start of the season but last week's vandalism was different and likely related to competition for beehive sites in the so-called ''honey wars''.

    ''This wasn't the normal carry-on. This was someone trying to take down a small family business. It's despicable and disgusting. Everyone knows we're not a Comvita, we're not a big corporate. We put our blood, sweat and our tears into our hives,'' Morrogh said.

    Insurance would cover some of the damage but not lost production, which would be significant if they couldn't replace the hives quickly.

  11. observer 11

    I love the way Bridges keeps saying "crims". Somebody in his office has whispered in his ear "Simon, it's what the cool 65 year old kids on talkback say. The housewives love it!"

    Young Nats dinner and dance, ladies a plate.

  12. Ken 12

    Looks like National have crawled back into bed with the NRA after taking a break because of the Christchurch massacre.

    I would not be at all surprised if Soimun was desperate enough to do a Pauline Hanson.

    I would be more surprised if he wasn't.

  13. Wal 13

    Wow seems like a lot of unfounded anger towards licenced firearms owners and not a lot of angry rhetoric back. It would appear they are remarkably reasonable. This is an absolute non issue. Prior to Chch firearm crime was unheard of. NZ is still safe we just have a meth and property crime habit. Simon is right this legislation it penalises licence holders worse than criminals for the same offence. Police ineptitude needs to be addressed and the recommendations of the Thorpe report revisited. The Stone Age didn’t end because they ran out of stones and the potential for violent massacre doesn’t change once the guns are gone. Look at Japan. I for one appreciate National is challenging the socialist want to malign and blame, kind of like the national socialists once did and no one likes them.

    • Incognito 13.1

      Prior to Chch firearm crime was unheard of.

      I don’t think that’s correct. In any case, if violence involving firearms is a multi-factorial problem why would you not advocate a multipronged approach in dealing with it? Why would the last (?) step towards a solution be restricting ownership (and use!) of certain types of weapons?

      According to Stuff's data, there have been 105 gun-related homicides, excluding police shootings and hunting deaths, which resulted in the deaths of 167 people – 124 men and 43 women – in the past 15 years. These figures include the March 15 terror attack, counted as a single homicide event.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/112559564/the-homicide-report-gives-a-detailed-account-of-gun-violence-in-new-zealand

    • observer 13.2

      @Wal

      Leaving aside your very silly last sentence, can you explain …

      1) Why is it wrong to have more data about firearms in NZ?

      2) If you want to "revisit" the Thorpe report, which of the recommendations would you now support – and why were they not adopted sooner?

      And on the politics of it …

      3) Do you seriously believe Simon Bridges gives a toss about anything except finding an "issue" to save his job?

  14. Dukeofurl 14

    Wal seems to forget the Aramoana massacre , sprre crime using guns.

    This reference lists the GUNS he used

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramoana_massacre

    3 semi automatics and 13 victims
    Gray wasn’t what Bridges would call a Crim ..until he started killing people

  15. weston 15

    National seems to effortlessly get people excited !!Lol its just more smoke an mirrors for heavens sake they'll vote for this bill they just want people to THINK they opposed it like they are standing up for the rights of the "common man "or something .When the time comes itll be with great regret etc an grave misgivings but eotd done deal .This imo is no different to the beginning of the weeks trumpeting about how they are gonna make a bonfire of labours new regs an going forward assuming they win throw out two old regs for every new one introduced ! do people honestly think they'll do that ?come on they're torries not anarchists .If they ended up throwing out half a doz id be surprised .Dog whistling and staying in the headlines is the name of the game .

  16. peterlepaysan 16

    Has anyone in NZ ever justified why it is necessary for them to own a semi automatic firearm?  What could it be used for that my single shot bolt action rifle or my single barrel shotgun could not be used for?

    The only people who could possibly justify having such weaponry are the military, (that is another topic altogether).

    The Greywarshark reference above to Gordon Campbell's post is well worth reading.

    Bridges cannot keep up with right wing oz politicians.  Zeesh the Natz are more Neanderthal than I thought.

     

  17. '' I used to admire John Key’s ability to look deep into the camera and express opinions that had been polled and focussed grouped within an inch of their lives.  It felt like he knew what we were thinking and it was because he knew what most of us were thinking''…

    I'm sorry.

    I never admired his Crosby /Textor abilitys.

     

  18. '' I used to admire John Key’s ability to look deep into the camera and express opinions that had been polled and focussed grouped within an inch of their lives.  It felt like he knew what we were thinking and it was because he knew what most of us were thinking''…

    I'm sorry.

    I never once admired his Crosby /Textor ability's to pervert our media and the populaces jaundiced, one sided view which they ( National ) created and nurtured..

    I never admired him  , nor his political party's sleazy Dirty Politics. Matter of fact, I admire them even less today, even though they were, at that time, one of the most corrupt political party's in this modern era.

    National ,… under either Key , English or Bridges are dangerous. Not just to democracy , but to ( now )  millions of fellow New Zealanders. There is nothing good in them.

    All they are, is a treacherous, sell out party for overseas / foreign advantage. Thus they are quite treasonous in approach. Why , therefore, should we even consider them as fit for leadership?

    They are / and always will be … simply sleaze.

    And there is nothing to admire in that.

     

  19. Henry Filth 19

    Money talks – political parties listen.

     

    Whose money is talking about guns?

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    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    1 week ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    1 week ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    1 week ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Hard News: Time for a New Deal: 25 years on
    In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Not impressed
    KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Solar beats coal
    As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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