Sir Bill's economic policy looks like he has read the IMF reports for one, then deleted the solutions of IMF and written his own.
Let it fail policy and advised " businesses to hoard some cash," .
“Get ready for a long haul.”
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
“That means businesses failures,” he said.
He advised against the Government trying to intervene too much in that transition.
“Some of it is the Government just keeping out of the way,” he said.
English gives acknowledgment of similarities to US, soaring stock market( billions) but high unemployment- compared- NZ strong rising economic indicators ( activity back at pre covid levels.Treasury) yet unemployment still rising.
Is the causation due to further inducing Corporations to hoard?
An example hence would be Tower Insurance during lockdown announcing a 6 month profit of $12M dollars, profit up from 2019.
Then Tower announces at the same time the sacking of 108 employers to further save another $3M for profit.
They are. Paula's farewell speech is their next policy….
I did this and I did that but we never really finished that ..but you know the green and white papers… and Billy's social Investment modèls….fixing up abused kids and peeeeple are all a work in progress, you know eeeh ?
A link for what weka? For writing one's own words ?? I don't get your adding a wagging finger ? I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is.
You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post unreferenced including what may be deemed liabilous and or containing a range of prejudiced "……ism" s. No wagging fingers there ! Yet in one way or another with even the targetting by pernicious comments, I get a group of minions who dash in like a school yard brawl to support the blanking.
However, reminded the other day that I should remember my place, by unclever words from a superior like " for us regular posters" . So either we’re encouraging a diverse democracy or can keep TS as an echo chamber.
Serious question. What reference , weka, please state; and who is Morrisey?
You used actual quotes in your first comment. Yes, you have to provide a link if that's where you got the quotes from.
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
you took that from the article that you eventually linked to. I'm asking you to link in the same comment next time.
And now that you've brought my attention to it, that whole bit in italics is lifted straight from the article, not just the bits in quotation marks. When you were asked for a link, you said it was parody and not quotes, and then referenced Hansard. But they're not your own words.
So, next time, please link, and please make it clear which are your words and which are someone else's. If you want to write parody, you will have to use your own words not the words of an offsite journalist.
Morrisey is another poster fond of artful transcripts. And yes, the link to the thing you were satirising is helpful. Otherwise how are the rest of us meant to have a clue what you are on about?
Morrissey. About – "You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post…I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is. " Paddy Oh dear said this. I wondered how anyone could be a frequent visitor and not know about Morris[s]ey.
My conclusion is that this is Morrissey or his doppelganger. It seems his style.
And other commenters; if you are paraphrasing or putting your interpretation of the meaning behind the words – say so, 'This is how her farewell speech sounded to me' etc. and you try to remember where you saw/heard the original event. It helps us all to get a picture of what is going on to know if you heard it in the local toffs club, or at a white supremacist rally, or at the pub after downing x? beers.
😂 Love the guesswork but I'm not related last time I checked. On one side my links are directly 3 down to one Carl Mumme, famously misnamed as a ' fascist', racially profiled, wrongfully imprisoned on Sommes island 1916 but along with others were actually heroes who are celebrated as the fighters for rights as the roots of the Labour movement.
I thought Daily Review would be boiling, what with valedictory speeches, dire polls for the Nats, the very eloquent grieving Mother giving her side of fleeing Hamilton's isolation, and the Heron/Officer Barbrady report.
I have a lot more sympathy for this family's plight after hearing Mum's side of events.
the kind of judgemental comments I've seen around these cases reminds me of bene bashing. The inability to imagine or allow for circumstances that might explain behaviour. The left needs to take a long hard look at itself. At the moment it looks like compassion for other humans is entirely conditional.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too. If compassion is only for those deemed worthy by the person with the biggest stick, it's probably not actually compassion.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too.
Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did. Beneficiaries are, as a matter of fact, victims of capitalism. These guys are victims only of their own actions.
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
"Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did."
From a right wing perspective that's not true. Next time they are in power, they will do this same shit all over again. I'd prefer it if the left didn't run lines that uphold that position (the deserving poor and the undeserving poor).
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
I think you have misunderstood. They broke the law and should be dealt with by the law accordingly. Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context. Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol. Making Q better means people will be more likely to comply. Compassion serves society as well as the individual, it's not a position of endorsing problematic behaviour. We can offer compassion to people we disagree with or whose actions are wrong. There is a difference between the person and what they did.
here's another way to think about it. When someone commits a crime and is charged and taken to court and found guilty, the judge has discretion about sentencing, based on mitigating factors. This is compassion of a kind. It says that it's not black and white, but that context matters. There are of course all sorts of problems with how that gets applied, but the basic principle of not saying that everyone person who escapes Q should be imprisoned for 5 years or whatever is important.
The right-wing are, inevitably, wrong. Especially when you realise that their entire purpose for being in power is to rip off the country and that the beneficiary bashing is there as a distraction from their theft.
(the deserving poor and the undeserving poor)
At no point have I said or implied that. These people aren't poor so obviously such a statement does not apply.
Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context.
a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.
Again, I must tell you to stop using words as if their meaning is what you want it to be.
Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol.
No, it won't. Better processes will.
There is a difference between the person and what they did.
Yes, there is but that statement has no meaning in context. What they did is the issue – not them.
For Gallirallus' Clarity and to add to your definition of compassion
"the deserving poor and the undeserving poor " as uncited by the esteemed weka, is
referenced to original source – The Poor Act 1552 where Church Parishes kept registers of the poor and enacted powers they were given to, (among other powers) deem who was poor. This was not right wing politics nor left wing politics.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack.
Then to be accurate when adding the plagiarised phrase of "the deserving poor and the undeserving poor ", it is further referenced to "The Poor Act of 1555" ( as a means to help enforce "The Poor Act 1952); whereby this law was passed by Queen Mary 1 requiring certain beggars to wear badges to identify types of poor that citizens in passing by ( not the Crown) should or should NOT give money to.
The poor could be found on the left or right of a street.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack. Access through Waikato University database.
The political terms to be bandied around, Left and Right were first thought to have originated during the French Revolution ( 1789 – 1799) originally referring to seating arrangements in the French parliament: those who sat to the right of the chair of the then parliamentary president. These two sides of the room were grouped as Monarchists and Republicans. ( Right wing in modern times).
Knapp, Andrew. Wright, Vincent. The government and politics of France. New York: Routledge, 2001.
The people of English-speaking countries did not apply the terms right and left to their own politics until the 20th century. The English Ideology: Studies in the Language of Victorian Politics, George Watson Allen Lane, London, 1973, p. 94.
[the problem you have now is that you’ve got weka’s attention as a moderator in bold. Biggest mistake people make here is thinking that moderators want to spend their time on stupid arguments about moderation. If I have to keep reading your comments to see if you are stepping over a line, then I can tell you that at this point in the election cycle my patience will wear thin very quickly. You’ve now been warned – weka]
Nonsense. The children lost their father and were desperate to say their farewells. Instead, they were detained in distanced isolation.
How many people did they endanger given that they had returned negative tests and were wearing facemasks? Four of them didn’t get very far at all but the risk to the NZ population was immeasurable?
This is simply another case where (negative) emotions trump everything else.
– they were detained in managed isolation due to them coming back to NZ not send to an island in the middle of nowhere
– they knew that they were going to be send to managed isolation upon arrival in NZ, they knew it would take two weeks.
– they managed to endanger everyone they came in contact with, mask while helpful in preventing spread of the droplets are not a get out of prison card – and everyone in NZ is lucky that their negative test was a correct result
– have you got proof that they wore their masks at all times or are we on their word
– four of them got somewhere another one got further, how many people did they interact with while out and about?
– everyone of these that they interacted with could have potentially been infected, gone home to infect their whanau, gotten up the next day to work and spread it some more there and so on and so on – luckily they all got lucky, inclusive the coppers who were send to find them
Also this might actually be the most important point.
Webb said the family arrived into New Zealand from Brisbane on 21 July, with the funeral of the children's father due to take place today.
"Upon arrival they requested an exemption to spend time with a family member and a recently deceased close relative, and attend the funeral. This request was declined as the health risk was deemed too high at that point in time, noting they had not yet conducted a day 3 test.
Webb said the family tested negative for Covid-19 after the results from their first test came back mid to late afternoon yesterday.
"At 6.15pm last night the family were contacted by my team and were advised we were actively considering their application, and doing everything we could to support it. They were made aware that the application process was looking positive, and that they would be given a decision by 8pm last night."
1 hour and 45 minutes …….and they gave no fucks about NZ, you me or anyone.
We are either serious with protecting the country from the Virus and Covid – 19 or we are not.
Full stop.
There currently is an active case in Rotorua. Maybe that person too has a good and valid reason to run away?
We have been more then once now lucky with people breaking quarantine. And it literally takes only one person to bring the country back into lockdown 4,
so yeah, they should have waited until given permission. They choose not to. And with that decision they choose to endanger anyone they met on their way. And anyone who was met by Mum and her four kids was lucky that they were indeed not afflicted with this disease. LUCKY. Not safe at home. But Lucky that these guys did not carry the virus and infected everyone on their path.
You are a great commenter but I am convinced this family’s decision to break out of quarantine was completely wrong and they should have to face the consequences of that decision regardless of circumstance.
The media intent on padding their story can shove it.
Honestly, I’d let this go. It was just another breakout until today when some dipshit decided to sympathetically interview her sob story for the clicks. Now I am completely mad about it.
Nope, simplistic ‘logic’. Logic would dictate to take all circumstances into account and the different PoVs. To refuse so is to deny reality. I wonder what the judge’s view is; maybe another hardliner …
Thanks DTB about your consideration, but as one of the 'others' I don't jump in with selfishness as my judgment. You could try not to be selfish and hardlining yourself. This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family. So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans, and living among humans who have had ideas implanted in their brains somewhow, and who can no longer think like a human. Don't please let that happen to you DTB!
This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family.
Death happens. Its as much a part of life as being born. They're going to feel sorry for themselves because of their loss but they really didn't need to get to the body or even the funeral.
Quarantine, on the other hand, is there to protect others from a deadly disease and is necessary.
So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans
I don't think like you so I'm not human?
See, this is the othering that has become endemic in the Left over the last few decades and is most obvious/odious in identity politics.
DTB I was just hoping that you hadn't lost touch with your human identity not all the other isms and shades that have arisen. But you put on the breastplate of righteousness when you advance anti-capitalism and apparently are also anti everything else that people might be fond of. I didn't realise how far the anti-thing had gone in you; you need an antidote I think. What about offering to dress up as Santa for Christmas. Sweet!
I am one of those who has made judgemental comments about absconders. Nothing has changed my mind about this woman's actions including that they were wearing masks.
I have compassion for anyone experiencing loss, especially in Covid situations. But to abscond from isolation shows a self interest/sense of entitlement that puts an individuals needs above the greater good. She must have known that in coming to NZ there was no guarantee of getting compassionate leave. Saying that the state has let her down really annoys me. During a pandemic it is not "the States" job to ensure her kids get to see their fathers body. What risk was she putting her children at, scaling a big fence in the dark? risking arrest and a court appearance? How did this help her children.
I feel exasperated that people don't accept we are in a pandemic and behalf accordingly. IMHO her kids would have been better off to stay in Oz and grieve peacefully together at home…………
I don't disagree with too much there anker. The only thing I would say is that people aren't rational during intense grief. We have the grief associated with covid and the changes to our lives and society and future (not many are talking about this) and yep, some people are taking longer to adjust than others. Not being able to say goodbye to loved ones is going to hit some harder than others. So on top of the 'should be adjusting' they're also in acute grief from someone close to them having died suddenly. That's shock and pain and disbelief and anger, you bet that some people will make poor decisions at such a time.
The compassion is understanding that whatever we think people should do, often there are reasons why they don't.
Like I said, the judgements I have seen remind me of bene bashing. It reminds me of how the right and even some on the left treated Turei. We can still disagree with what someone has done while understanding why they did it. There are all sorts of ways to rationalise not offering that understanding.
The DHB got into a mighty amount of trouble in the media when the two English women were given compassionate leave to travel to Wellington. This likely means they are extremely cautious about granting leave now and exercise a supreme amount of care. So I am not sure kicking the can down the road is necessarily true
Re the link: It shows how easy it is to pass judgement without knowing the facts of a case. We are all guilty of doing it from time to time but some are far more guilty than others.
I've just had the sad experience of having to listen to younger judgmental relatives running down Maori and others of a minority persuasion. It's the trend you see of the upwardly mobile, and those who want to believe they are superior beings to others.
The facts are that the woman absconded from isolation…………If you think there are extenuating circumstances that make that o.k. for some, then I hear that is your point of view.
I don't think there are any circumstances that make it o.k. to abscond from isolation. That is a very strong view I hold. Its a pandemic. We need to do everything to ensure the virus is kept out. That means really tight rules.
BTW my own family circumstances will likely mean I am adversely effected re seeing seriously ill loved ones overseas. But I accept this is the world we live in
Re the Heron report, I wonder if Woodhouse is annoyed with himself, all he would have had to do was say "no" if asked had he received the email from Boag & that would have been "good enough". Heron asked Boag did she send the email to anyone else & she said "no", Heron took her at her word. We pay him for that? Anyone could have got that result. Though, the Privacy Commissioner is still looking at it.
Reading between the lines Labour is going very softly on the opposition at the moment. JA is serene and Hipkins is going in to bat for our very own Hitler youth.
There's a real sense of purpose in rising above the problems of their opponents and not getting involved.
I don't think the Heron report was all that bad. It's essentially a fire service response: make sure the thing ain't still burning.
The privacy commissioner will do their review and I hope they throw the book at Boag in particular. If there's no book for them to throw, the MoH has hit the ARHT with a breach of contract notice, so that will make life fucky for them until they figure out how to stop a CEO telling people to send them patient data. But part of that might involve pursuing civil or criminal legal proceedings against employees apparently responsible for redirecting intellectual property into their personal possesssion instead of the Trust's. Which is a lovely thought.
When you import people from Australia you are importing a much slacker attitude to Covid-19.
Imagine if everyone who came here for a funeral did this. We'd look like Victoria within two weeks.
They had 700 new cases today and 87 vulnerable people have died in Australia since they ‘beat’ the virus. That is fast approaching double their initial Covid deaths with only worse to come.
We’d be Melbourne x5 because of our weather and extremely poor housing in vulnerable communities.
Too much is at stake and I am genuinely surprised there is any sympathy for this woman here.
IMHO, accusing “some Standard faithful” of “pimping of her case” was misplaced. If you need to be ‘ordered’ to retract it means you think it was ok to make it personal with a most dubious statement 🙁
When those five people absconded, how “many cases of quarantine absconding” in total had there been here?
when you move overseas permanently, one of the things that will come to your mind is your death….the one of your elders for example.
I flew home when my mother was very ill with cancer, i arrived two hours short. I knew when marrying my kiwi husband and moving here that that would be a thing that could happen, that one day i would get a call that said so and so is ill, dying come now.
And sometimes we arrive in time and get to say good bye, and sometimes we don't. Btw, the only reason i was able to attend the funeral of my mum two weeks later was because the person from the funeral liased with the police to release the body of my mother faster then usual as i only had three weeks to stay at home. My mum passed away at home and by law there needs to be a autopsy to verify that she died of natural causes – in her case cancer, rather then say an opiod overdose.
So frankly that is a bullshit excuse. You don't generally expect anyone other then really old people to just die, but it happens. And you either live close enough to never miss a family death/funeral or you don't and then you accept that maybe you come to late.
the problem was that they could not wait until the final decision was made.
1 hour and 45 minutes – and they CHOOSE not to wait.
If it had been refused then, maybe i can find it in my heart to understand them. But they DID NOT WAIT. And that is what people are right fully upset about.
We know too little about this virus and the illnesses that it brings forth, we have the mess of the US / OZ / England / France /Spain / Italy to look at if we want to know how bad it can get. We might want to keep that in mind.
Don/t have kids would be the final solution Muttonbird. So much easier and cuts complexity right down so one can see one's path straight and clear. And further don't have a partner or friend that makes life complex too.
I'm releasing another Inquiry report just for you.
‐——–
"Inquiry report by Howard .I. Know QC
Because Mr.Hamish Walker and Ms. Michelle Boag have admitted their guilt, I surmise the following-:
1. By admission of their guilt the Inquiry will peruse the Evidence. At this level of jurisdiction, in my official power to make legal decisions and judgements, I called upon Ms. Boag and Mr. Walker to submit The Evidence.
2. Mr.Walker admitting a terrible mistake, was distressed and feeling picked on. He did not involve anyone else that mattered to this inquiry but Ms.Boag.
3. Ms. Boag was a number of a party who became a recipient of a highly confidential email from inept Health Ministry staff.
4. Because of the aforementioned admissions to the public later, no other persons are sequestered nor any computer databases sought.
Conclusion:
Along with privacy obligations written clearly on emails, I find the Ministry of Health should have encrypted their communications.
The two persons admitted their mistakes therefore I will pass this matter on to the Privacy Commission. I hope in that time that no other contextual data for evidence will be wiped. "
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not only is the family dealing with a close death, the family need to remain in NZ until September for sentencing.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
This psycho woman needs to be billed for her and her kids' stay according to the new rules, after they get out of prison. Then they should be shipped back to Queensland where they belong.
Of course, you are, because if you were dead like the father of those children, you wouldn’t be commenting here, would you, and your family would not be fine, would they? I have experienced a similar situation myself and I would not wish that upon anybody else, least of all on children.
I’m sure that family of five will be all right too, once they have done their time here and been kicked out of NZ. They’re obviously undesirables and unwanted in this lovely country that is ours and ours only.
When I said “sick to death”, I was referring to your self-confessed emotional state regarding the mother and her four children and the commentary you’d been reading. It was also a reference to the melodramatic outburst by Judith Collins claiming “I’m sick to death of this stuff” about the Behrouz Boochani situation.
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Because that was all that was available? You may not have noticed but we don't have unlimited space.
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not it really couldn't have been.
You're here, the body's there. So, no, you can't see it.
Not hard, not complex and that's what she was told.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
No. She wouldn't receiving a sentence if she'd just waited. And I'm pretty sure their situation was managed as well as it could be. Its not the people managing isolation that are wrong here – they are.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
Yeah, shit happens. This does not allow for special cases.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been. Had the family been assigned a person who had the right skills to manage the families grief, their anxiety could have been reduced or fully KNOWN. Fight or flight response probably occurred due to the intensity of the situation for the family.
Isolation is required for 14 days to prevent community transmission. This does not mean that the body could not have been taken to a room where the family were staying.
There are so many ways in which Covid-19 can escape from isolation that any day this could happen.
I REPEAT "the situation was not handled as well as it could have been."
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been.
Yes, it was. Was it handled perfectly – no. It a quarantine situation there has to be give and take on both sides. This woman didn't give any.
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her own damn emotions.
it may have something to do with a constrained capacity and the need to keep different cohorts separated and together in those limited facilities….Hamilton was prepared for that flight.
7000 individuals needs are difficult to cater for to the nth degree
Granted, this is a difficult situation and it is near impossible to meet everyone's expectations.
But, I assume this family made their situation clear to Whoever Was In Charge…to the point They seriously considered trucking the Deceased from Auckland to Hamilton to facilitate a viewing…why the hell could They not have injected a bit of flexibility into their system?
Perhaps a small van and a couple of driver/minders could have taken this whanau up the Expressway to say their private goodbyes? Four hours max….and they would have been back in their isolation digs by the time the bureaucrats had made their minds up.
And of course this could have be done safely…in the same manner they were trucked from Auckland to Hamilton in the first place.
On one hand I get folks are scared and angry that these 'selfish people put the lives of all at risk with their unreasonable demands', but on the other I have personal experience with MOH bureaucrats and have found them not overburdened with decision making abilities. Delay is their favourite tactic, common sense is a foreign concept.
Seriously…kindness and common sense would have gone a long way towards mitigating this particular shit-show.
I would have assessed the grief and anxiety that the mother had and then I would have supported her and the children until a decision was made. And were the decision to have been not seeing the body, I would have done everything I could knowing that there were limits.
Appearing in court probably was a blur and may of not been appropriate.
Lack of management grasping the situation was the main problem.
Was anyone in the quarantine facility even aware of the emotional distress the family were in?
If the answer is No, then difficult to provide care.
Is there a process for the returnees to access?
In these circumstances, of having to attend a funeral, if not, maybe a more robust system is required to acknowledge the potential risks, the system isn't geared towards people with anguish and anxiety from a loved one passing away.
They were awaiting a response to be delivered only a short time after they escaped.
Maybe this is a learning curve for the Border Quarantine managers, and has highlighted a deficiency in the system that deserves more consideration.
Nope, that is a distraction and a diversion towards a hypothetical situation and thus not the “real question” at all, IMO. We know what happened, more or less, and we need to understand it before we can make a sensible judgement about this particular case, if we feel inclined to do so. They have admitted the breach so that’s not in question.
My hypothetical is whether this particular family, knowing what they know now (and what some suggest they knew then, e.g. that their application was receiving favourable consideration), including the prospect of a sympathetic 20-minute interview on RNZ, and the charges and potential penalties they face, would do anything differently. I hope that they would, for everyone's sake – if they wouldn't then some things need to change, e.g. more focused help and advice for those experiencing unusually high levels of stress.
When large numbers of people (by NZ standards) find themselves in (stressful) circumstances that carry an unusual health risk (to themselves and/or others), then any hint that the rules governing those circumstances are flexible is asking for trouble. We saw this in lockdown (heck, the Minister of Health ultimately lost his portfolio because of poor judgement over his movements), and I'd suggest that we'll see more of it if the idea that you can ‘have a go‘ at breaching border quarantine without significant consequences gains traction.
The Wespac helicopter could have flowen the body to Hamilton and returned by van.
The details would need to have been managed carefully and agreed by the mother. A person can only make an informed decision when they have all the details.
Common sense was required and not politics or an unnecessary delay in making a decision.
Not to sure but culturally the body is not removed at night. So cultural awareness was lacking.
the woman was put in Hamilton because quarantine places are limited and Hamilton must have been the place they could accommodate her family. FFS this isn't a holiday we are offering people. Go where you are sent, because the priority is keeping NZders safe
I have sympathy for her predicament but … she appears to have no comprehension of the catastrophe she could have caused … and the first people impacted would have been her own whanau.
In her radio interview, rather than apologizing for her actions, she just tried to vindicate them by blaming everyone else.
Everyone seemed to be bending over backwards to give her what she wanted (at no cost to her from what I can tell) but because it wasn't on her timetable she decided that noone but herself mattered.
what interests me about that story is not that Madonna did something stupid, but the number of liberals who are believing the Frontline Doctors propaganda, despite the known connections to pro-fascist right. That group of otherwise progressive people is growing, and they're a dangerous mix of libertarianism, poor science literacy, and apolitical world views.
More important to them than left/right is concern about the government and authority. The left really needs to stop ridiculing them, and remember how radicalisation works. In NZ we still have the chance to create a better culture than in the US, but that window won't be open for long and the right are actively promoting politics that takes advantage of the disaffection.
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Bryce Edwards writes – It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just show a minimal amount of flux in public support ...
Inspirational: The Family of Man is a glorious hymn to human equality, but, more than that, it is a clarion call to human freedom. Because equality, unleavened by liberty, is a broken piano, an unstrung harp; upon which the songs of fraternity will never be played.“Somebody must have been telling lies about ...
Tax Lawyer Barbara Edmonds vs Emperor Justinian I- Nolo Contendere: False historical explanations of pivotal events are very far from being inconsequential.WHEN BARBARA EDMONDS made reference to the Roman Empire, my ears pricked up. It is, lamentably, very rare to hear a politician admit to any kind of familiarity ...
It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just show a minimal amount of flux in public support for the various parties in ...
Buzz from the Beehive Housing Minister Chris Bishop delivered news – packed with the ingredients to enflame political passions – worthy of supplanting Winston Peters in headline writers’ priorities. He popped up at the post-Cabinet press conference to promise a crackdown on unruly and antisocial state housing tenants. His ...
Ele Ludemann writes – The Reserve Bank is advertising for a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion advisor. The Bank has one mandate – to keep inflation between one and three percent. It has failed in that and is only slowly getting inflation back down to the upper limit. Will it ...
Last week former National Party leader Simon Bridges was appointed by the Government as the new chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi (NZTA). You can read about the appointment in Thomas Coughlan’s article, Simon Bridges to become chair of NZ Transport Agency Waka KotahiThe fact that a ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Last week former National Party leader Simon Bridges was appointed by the Government as the new chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi (NZTA). You can read about the appointment in Thomas Coughlan’s article, Simon Bridges to become chair of NZ Transport Agency ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Gavin Jacobson talks to Thomas Piketty 10 years on from Capital in the 21st CenturyThe SalvoLocal scoop: Green MP’s business being investigated over migrant exploitation claims StuffSteve KilgallonLocal deep-dive: The commercial contractors making money from School ...
It’s a home - but Kāinga Ora tenants accused of “abusing the privilege” may lose it. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The Government announced a crackdown on Kāinga Ora tenants who were unruly and/or behind on their rent, with Housing Minister Chris Bishop saying a place in a state ...
This is a guest post by Connor Sharp of Surface Light Rail Light rail in Auckland: A way forward sooner than you think With the coup de grâce of Auckland Light Rail (ALR) earlier this year, and the shift of the government’s priorities to roads, roads, and more roads, it ...
Note: As a paid-up Webworm member, I’ve recorded this Webworm as a mini-podcast for you as well. Some of you said you liked this option - so I aim to provide it when I get a chance to record! Read more ...
TL;DR: In my ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.06pm on Monday, March 18:IKEA is accused of planting big forests in New Zealand to green-wash; REDD-MonitorA City for People takes a well-deserved victory lap over Wellington’s pro-YIMBY District Plan votes; A City for PeopleSteven Anastasiou takes a close look at the sticky ...
Buzz from the Beehive Here’s hoping for a lively post-cabinet press conference when the PM and – perhaps – some of his ministers tell us what was discussed at their meeting today. Until then, Point of Order has precious little Beehive news to report after its latest monitoring of the ...
David Farrar writes – We now have almost all 2023 data in, which has allowed me to update my annual table of how labour went against its promises. This is basically their final report card. The promiseThe result Build 100,000 affordable homes over 10 ...
I’m a bit worried that I’ve started a previous newsletter with the words “just when you think they couldn’t get any worse…” Seems lately that I could begin pretty much every issue with that opening. Such is the nature of our coalition government that they seem to be outdoing each ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. ...
Depictions of Islam in Western popular culture have rarely been positive, even before 9/11. Five years on from the mosque shootings, this is one of the cultural headwinds that the Muslim community has to battle against. Whatever messages of tolerance and inclusion are offered in daylight, much of our culture ...
Last week Transport Minster Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre. The new train control centre will see teams from KiwiRail, Auckland Transport and Auckland One Rail working more closely together to improve train services across the city. The Auckland Rail Operations Centre in ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson said in an exit interview with Q+A yesterday the Government can and should sustain more debt to invest in infrastructure for future generations. Elsewhere in the news in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 6:36am: Read more ...
Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. It is more than just a happy ...
TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to March 18 include:China’s Foreign Minister visiting Wellington today;A post-cabinet news conference this afternoon; the resumption of Parliament on Tuesday for two weeks before Easter;retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson gives his valedictory speech in Parliament; ...
New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters’s state-of-the-nation speech on Sunday was really a state-of-Winston-First speech. He barely mentioned any of the Government’s key policies and could not even wholly endorse its signature income tax cuts. Instead, he rehearsed all of his complaints about the Ardern Government, including an extraordinary claim ...
A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
“I’ve been internalising a really complicated situation in my head.”When they kept telling us we should wait until we get to know him, were they taking the piss? Was it a case of, if you think this is bad, wait till you get to know the real Christopher, after the ...
Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
.“$10 and a target that bleeds” - Bleeding Targets for Under $10!.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.This government appears hell-bent on either scrapping life-saving legislation or reintroducing things that - frustrated critics insist - will be dangerous and likely ...
“It hardly strikes me as fair to criticise a government for doing exactly what it said it was going to do. For actually keeping its promises.”THUNDER WAS PLAYING TAG with lightning flashes amongst the distant peaks. Its rolling cadences interrupted by the here-I-come-here-I-go Doppler effect of the occasional passing car. ...
Subversive & Disruptive Technologies: Just as happened with that other great regulator of the masses, the Medieval Church, the advent of a new and hard-to-control technology – the Internet – is weakening the ties that bind. Then, and now, those who enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of lies, cannot and will ...
Been Here Before: To find the precedents for what this Coalition Government is proposing, it is necessary to return to the “glory days” of Muldoonism.THE COALITION GOVERNMENT has celebrated its first 100 days in office by checking-off the last of its listed commitments. It remains, however, an angry government. It ...
Bob Edlin writes – And what is the world watching today…? The email newsletter from Associated Press which landed in our mailbox early this morning advised: In the news today: The father of a school shooter has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter; prosecutors in Trump’s hush-money case ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ HeraldThomas CoughlanSimeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
TL;DR:Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it: We want our country to be a ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading → ...
Ele Ludemann writes – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
What was that judge thinking?Peter Williams writes – That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read:Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop:Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
Buzz from the BeehiveThe text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary. It can be quickly analysed ...
For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
Questions need to be asked on both sides of the worldPeter Williams writes – The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read:Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop:The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
TL;DR:Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
Bob Edlin writes – The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
The New Zealand public voted for a change in direction at the 2023 general election and that is exactly what this coalition government has been delivering in its first 100 days. There was an immediate focus on the economy, easing the cost of living, cracking down on law and order ...
The Government has left the health system as an afterthought, announcing half-baked targets at the last minute of their 100-day plan, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
Kiwis are still waiting for their promised cost of living support after 100 days of a National Government that is taking us backwards, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
100 days of National taking NZ backwardsThe National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
The Government must commit to funding free and healthy school lunches, as thousands of people sign the petition to keep them, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti says. ...
If the Government was serious about moving families into public housing, they would build more houses so there is actually somewhere for people to go. ...
The free and healthy school lunches programme feeds our kids, helps them to learn, and saves families money – but it is at risk under this Government, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
The Government’s proposed changes to Firearms Prohibition Orders (FPO) add almost nothing new and are merely an attempt to distract from its plans to loosen gun laws, police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and justice spokesperson Dr Duncan Webb said. ...
The great Victorian era English politician Lord Macauley stood in the British House of Parliament and said, "The gallery in which the reporters sit has become a fourth estate of the realm".He understood and outlined even way back then, the significant role and influence media have in a democracy. ...
"The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April. ...
Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand. Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships. “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland Acknowledgements and opening Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says. “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024 Acknowledgements and opening Morena, Nga Mihi Nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country. “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week. “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee. “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today. “The Amendment Paper represents ...
Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level. “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024. “Lower fruit and vege ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction. Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
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Jacqui Dean – Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear (as the disgraced Keeping Stock was want to say)
They’re not very good with bigly numbers, are they?
Or owning up to bullsh*tting.
She's been at the dihydrogen monoxide, again.
https://web.archive.org/web/20171213085925/http:/www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/38005/National-MP-falls-victim-to-water-hoax
Sir Bill's economic policy looks like he has read the IMF reports for one, then deleted the solutions of IMF and written his own.
Let it fail policy and advised " businesses to hoard some cash," .
“Get ready for a long haul.”
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
“That means businesses failures,” he said.
He advised against the Government trying to intervene too much in that transition.
“Some of it is the Government just keeping out of the way,” he said.
English gives acknowledgment of similarities to US, soaring stock market( billions) but high unemployment- compared- NZ strong rising economic indicators ( activity back at pre covid levels.Treasury) yet unemployment still rising.
Is the causation due to further inducing Corporations to hoard?
An example hence would be Tower Insurance during lockdown announcing a 6 month profit of $12M dollars, profit up from 2019.
Then Tower announces at the same time the sacking of 108 employers to further save another $3M for profit.
Bingles had his turn. Needs to shut up now and let the next generation get on with it.
They are. Paula's farewell speech is their next policy….
I did this and I did that but we never really finished that ..but you know the green and white papers… and Billy's social Investment modèls….fixing up abused kids and peeeeple are all a work in progress, you know eeeh ?
Link, Paddy?
Just saw this with the post lag time.
Parody, not a quote hence no speech marks.
Valedictory speeches are all subsequently printed after speeches, including actions such as having tissues, on Hansard at https://www.parliament.nz .
You use the database search on Hansard.
I do not miss Morrisey's fake transcripts one bit either.
Morrisey ?? I don’t know what that means Sacha did you mean
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122292806/sir-bill-english-warns-businesses-to-prepare-for-wshaped-downturn?cid=app-android
Please provide a link with the post next time.
This will take a 10 minute lag to post.
A link for what weka? For writing one's own words ?? I don't get your adding a wagging finger ? I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is.
You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post unreferenced including what may be deemed liabilous and or containing a range of prejudiced "……ism" s. No wagging fingers there ! Yet in one way or another with even the targetting by pernicious comments, I get a group of minions who dash in like a school yard brawl to support the blanking.
However, reminded the other day that I should remember my place, by unclever words from a superior like " for us regular posters" . So either we’re encouraging a diverse democracy or can keep TS as an echo chamber.
Serious question. What reference , weka, please state; and who is Morrisey?
You used actual quotes in your first comment. Yes, you have to provide a link if that's where you got the quotes from.
you took that from the article that you eventually linked to. I'm asking you to link in the same comment next time.
And now that you've brought my attention to it, that whole bit in italics is lifted straight from the article, not just the bits in quotation marks. When you were asked for a link, you said it was parody and not quotes, and then referenced Hansard. But they're not your own words.
So, next time, please link, and please make it clear which are your words and which are someone else's. If you want to write parody, you will have to use your own words not the words of an offsite journalist.
Morrisey is another poster fond of artful transcripts. And yes, the link to the thing you were satirising is helpful. Otherwise how are the rest of us meant to have a clue what you are on about?
So to be a Standardista one has to fit the mould and one must write in a conformed manner?
Zàijiàn, zhù nǐ chéng gōng.
Goodbye and go well in your endeavours
Eh? Supplying a link is hardly a big ask. Grow up.
You are a link demanding bore . Time and technical problems stops some of us
Eeerch, every other day the link monitor is hassling someone .
Sacha where you a parking warden in a past life?
Paddy quoted, so he already had the page open. If quoting there has to be a link.
There's enough leeway here for tech and time issues, people can make that clear, but I don't think that was the problem here 😉
Morrissey. About – "You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post…I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is. " Paddy Oh dear said this. I wondered how anyone could be a frequent visitor and not know about Morris[s]ey.
My conclusion is that this is Morrissey or his doppelganger. It seems his style.
And other commenters; if you are paraphrasing or putting your interpretation of the meaning behind the words – say so, 'This is how her farewell speech sounded to me' etc. and you try to remember where you saw/heard the original event. It helps us all to get a picture of what is going on to know if you heard it in the local toffs club, or at a white supremacist rally, or at the pub after downing x? beers.
one would hope that Morrissey wouldn't be so stupid as to comment while banned, which is a permanent ban offence.
Huh?? AFAIK, he’s not banned!?
I don't believe Paddy is a sockpuppet. Did not realise Morrissey had been banned again.
Moz ain't banned. Observer Tokoroa recently had a month off and I'm guessing PaddyOT and him may be related.
You reckon? 😀
😂 Love the guesswork but I'm not related last time I checked. On one side my links are directly 3 down to one Carl Mumme, famously misnamed as a ' fascist', racially profiled, wrongfully imprisoned on Sommes island 1916 but along with others were actually heroes who are celebrated as the fighters for rights as the roots of the Labour movement.
The grandkid and grandkids alive and well thanks.
http://garagecollective.blogspot.com/2014/05/fighting-war-anarchists-wobblies-and.html?m=1
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1307/S00093/100-years-of-anarchism-in-new-zealand-celebrated-today.htm
Similarity in times of 'crisis' .
If you can't cope with the basics of online discussion, I recommend talkback radio.
Wow!
I thought Daily Review would be boiling, what with valedictory speeches, dire polls for the Nats, the very eloquent grieving Mother giving her side of fleeing Hamilton's isolation, and the Heron/Officer Barbrady report.
I have a lot more sympathy for this family's plight after hearing Mum's side of events.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018757278/i-was-panicking-mother-explains-escape-from-isolation
Edit, when I started writing this it was 1/2 past 6 and no comments.
Your sympathy is welcome and noted. The ‘hardliners’ won’t be swayed though and will still demand swift and harsh punishment without compassion 🙁
I am sharing a lounge with one of those hardliners.
Hearing that the family was wearing masks and the son in Auckland was wearing a mask when caught, changed my view of the story.
Her side was a little inconsistent though she made a reasonable case (assuming her side was reasonably accurate which is by no means a given)
Equally, we've only had the state's version as gospel till now.
True enough although Id suggest the states version is viewed with suspicion by default…as said her version had some inconsistencies
the kind of judgemental comments I've seen around these cases reminds me of bene bashing. The inability to imagine or allow for circumstances that might explain behaviour. The left needs to take a long hard look at itself. At the moment it looks like compassion for other humans is entirely conditional.
Yes, entirely conditional on them not endangering others with their selfishness.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too. If compassion is only for those deemed worthy by the person with the biggest stick, it's probably not actually compassion.
Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did. Beneficiaries are, as a matter of fact, victims of capitalism. These guys are victims only of their own actions.
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
"Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did."
From a right wing perspective that's not true. Next time they are in power, they will do this same shit all over again. I'd prefer it if the left didn't run lines that uphold that position (the deserving poor and the undeserving poor).
I think you have misunderstood. They broke the law and should be dealt with by the law accordingly. Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context. Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol. Making Q better means people will be more likely to comply. Compassion serves society as well as the individual, it's not a position of endorsing problematic behaviour. We can offer compassion to people we disagree with or whose actions are wrong. There is a difference between the person and what they did.
here's another way to think about it. When someone commits a crime and is charged and taken to court and found guilty, the judge has discretion about sentencing, based on mitigating factors. This is compassion of a kind. It says that it's not black and white, but that context matters. There are of course all sorts of problems with how that gets applied, but the basic principle of not saying that everyone person who escapes Q should be imprisoned for 5 years or whatever is important.
The right-wing are, inevitably, wrong. Especially when you realise that their entire purpose for being in power is to rip off the country and that the beneficiary bashing is there as a distraction from their theft.
At no point have I said or implied that. These people aren't poor so obviously such a statement does not apply.
No, its not.
Again, I must tell you to stop using words as if their meaning is what you want it to be.
No, it won't. Better processes will.
Yes, there is but that statement has no meaning in context. What they did is the issue – not them.
The context in which their actions took place is where compassion can arise.
No, not really. In context its:
Their dad died, oh dear, how sad, never mind.
I don't have any compassion for any one who wilfully endangers others just because they feel hurt.
Draco T Bastard
For Gallirallus' Clarity and to add to your definition of compassion
"the deserving poor and the undeserving poor " as uncited by the esteemed weka, is
referenced to original source – The Poor Act 1552 where Church Parishes kept registers of the poor and enacted powers they were given to, (among other powers) deem who was poor. This was not right wing politics nor left wing politics.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack.
Then to be accurate when adding the plagiarised phrase of "the deserving poor and the undeserving poor ", it is further referenced to "The Poor Act of 1555" ( as a means to help enforce "The Poor Act 1952); whereby this law was passed by Queen Mary 1 requiring certain beggars to wear badges to identify types of poor that citizens in passing by ( not the Crown) should or should NOT give money to.
The poor could be found on the left or right of a street.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack. Access through Waikato University database.
The political terms to be bandied around, Left and Right were first thought to have originated during the French Revolution ( 1789 – 1799) originally referring to seating arrangements in the French parliament: those who sat to the right of the chair of the then parliamentary president. These two sides of the room were grouped as Monarchists and Republicans. ( Right wing in modern times).
Knapp, Andrew. Wright, Vincent. The government and politics of France. New York: Routledge, 2001.
The people of English-speaking countries did not apply the terms right and left to their own politics until the 20th century. The English Ideology: Studies in the Language of Victorian Politics, George Watson Allen Lane, London, 1973, p. 94.
[the problem you have now is that you’ve got weka’s attention as a moderator in bold. Biggest mistake people make here is thinking that moderators want to spend their time on stupid arguments about moderation. If I have to keep reading your comments to see if you are stepping over a line, then I can tell you that at this point in the election cycle my patience will wear thin very quickly. You’ve now been warned – weka]
In other words DTB, you're right, compassion is subjective . No one gives a fuck if it doesn't reward themselves.I better cite that too. https://genius.com/Eminem-white-america-lyrics
Nonsense. The children lost their father and were desperate to say their farewells. Instead, they were detained in distanced isolation.
How many people did they endanger given that they had returned negative tests and were wearing facemasks? Four of them didn’t get very far at all but the risk to the NZ population was immeasurable?
This is simply another case where (negative) emotions trump everything else.
– false negatives are a thing
– they were detained in managed isolation due to them coming back to NZ not send to an island in the middle of nowhere
– they knew that they were going to be send to managed isolation upon arrival in NZ, they knew it would take two weeks.
– they managed to endanger everyone they came in contact with, mask while helpful in preventing spread of the droplets are not a get out of prison card – and everyone in NZ is lucky that their negative test was a correct result
– have you got proof that they wore their masks at all times or are we on their word
– four of them got somewhere another one got further, how many people did they interact with while out and about?
– everyone of these that they interacted with could have potentially been infected, gone home to infect their whanau, gotten up the next day to work and spread it some more there and so on and so on – luckily they all got lucky, inclusive the coppers who were send to find them
Also this might actually be the most important point.
1 hour and 45 minutes …….and they gave no fucks about NZ, you me or anyone.
Your 1 hour and 45 mins is predicated on the state not failing to meet it's own deadline. Something it had already done several times.
Also that hindsight you are using is 20/20 vision. Not something available to this family at the time.
What was available to the family at the time was that they knew that they weren't allowed out.
What's so hard to understand about that?
We are either serious with protecting the country from the Virus and Covid – 19 or we are not.
Full stop.
There currently is an active case in Rotorua. Maybe that person too has a good and valid reason to run away?
We have been more then once now lucky with people breaking quarantine. And it literally takes only one person to bring the country back into lockdown 4,
so yeah, they should have waited until given permission. They choose not to. And with that decision they choose to endanger anyone they met on their way. And anyone who was met by Mum and her four kids was lucky that they were indeed not afflicted with this disease. LUCKY. Not safe at home. But Lucky that these guys did not carry the virus and infected everyone on their path.
And?
This may come as a surprise but that's not our problem. Having a pandemic is.
Yes – pandemic.
Yes. That's why they were in isolation.
Nope. Simply logic and what is required of us when there's a pandemic happening.
Nope.
Yep. The emotions are plentiful: "Fuck ’em." "Fuck her."
And?
You are a great commenter but I am convinced this family’s decision to break out of quarantine was completely wrong and they should have to face the consequences of that decision regardless of circumstance.
The media intent on padding their story can shove it.
Honestly, I’d let this go. It was just another breakout until today when some dipshit decided to sympathetically interview her sob story for the clicks. Now I am completely mad about it.
Great job RNZ, you fucking idiots.
It's late.
Time for bed.
Nighty night.
100% draco…………I have no sympathy for anyone absconding, whatever their circumstances
Nope, simplistic ‘logic’. Logic would dictate to take all circumstances into account and the different PoVs. To refuse so is to deny reality. I wonder what the judge’s view is; maybe another hardliner …
They didn't need to go to the funeral.
They didn't need to see the body.
Society did need them in quarantine to help protect from a deadly disease so that we didn't have so many more funerals.
Thanks DTB about your consideration, but as one of the 'others' I don't jump in with selfishness as my judgment. You could try not to be selfish and hardlining yourself. This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family. So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans, and living among humans who have had ideas implanted in their brains somewhow, and who can no longer think like a human. Don't please let that happen to you DTB!
Death happens. Its as much a part of life as being born. They're going to feel sorry for themselves because of their loss but they really didn't need to get to the body or even the funeral.
Quarantine, on the other hand, is there to protect others from a deadly disease and is necessary.
I don't think like you so I'm not human?
See, this is the othering that has become endemic in the Left over the last few decades and is most obvious/odious in identity politics.
DTB I was just hoping that you hadn't lost touch with your human identity not all the other isms and shades that have arisen. But you put on the breastplate of righteousness when you advance anti-capitalism and apparently are also anti everything else that people might be fond of. I didn't realise how far the anti-thing had gone in you; you need an antidote I think. What about offering to dress up as Santa for Christmas. Sweet!
I am one of those who has made judgemental comments about absconders. Nothing has changed my mind about this woman's actions including that they were wearing masks.
I have compassion for anyone experiencing loss, especially in Covid situations. But to abscond from isolation shows a self interest/sense of entitlement that puts an individuals needs above the greater good. She must have known that in coming to NZ there was no guarantee of getting compassionate leave. Saying that the state has let her down really annoys me. During a pandemic it is not "the States" job to ensure her kids get to see their fathers body. What risk was she putting her children at, scaling a big fence in the dark? risking arrest and a court appearance? How did this help her children.
I feel exasperated that people don't accept we are in a pandemic and behalf accordingly. IMHO her kids would have been better off to stay in Oz and grieve peacefully together at home…………
I don't disagree with too much there anker. The only thing I would say is that people aren't rational during intense grief. We have the grief associated with covid and the changes to our lives and society and future (not many are talking about this) and yep, some people are taking longer to adjust than others. Not being able to say goodbye to loved ones is going to hit some harder than others. So on top of the 'should be adjusting' they're also in acute grief from someone close to them having died suddenly. That's shock and pain and disbelief and anger, you bet that some people will make poor decisions at such a time.
The compassion is understanding that whatever we think people should do, often there are reasons why they don't.
Like I said, the judgements I have seen remind me of bene bashing. It reminds me of how the right and even some on the left treated Turei. We can still disagree with what someone has done while understanding why they did it. There are all sorts of ways to rationalise not offering that understanding.
That dicking around call you in an hour kicking the can down the road crap is just so DHB.
Especially when it sounds like all the other ducks were in a row: police, security military, transport…
The DHB got into a mighty amount of trouble in the media when the two English women were given compassionate leave to travel to Wellington. This likely means they are extremely cautious about granting leave now and exercise a supreme amount of care. So I am not sure kicking the can down the road is necessarily true
Re the link: It shows how easy it is to pass judgement without knowing the facts of a case. We are all guilty of doing it from time to time but some are far more guilty than others.
I've just had the sad experience of having to listen to younger judgmental relatives running down Maori and others of a minority persuasion. It's the trend you see of the upwardly mobile, and those who want to believe they are superior beings to others.
Sad and true, Anne – and still widely prevalent. They seem to dig their heels in instead of opening their minds..
The facts are that the woman absconded from isolation…………If you think there are extenuating circumstances that make that o.k. for some, then I hear that is your point of view.
I don't think there are any circumstances that make it o.k. to abscond from isolation. That is a very strong view I hold. Its a pandemic. We need to do everything to ensure the virus is kept out. That means really tight rules.
BTW my own family circumstances will likely mean I am adversely effected re seeing seriously ill loved ones overseas. But I accept this is the world we live in
Re the Heron report, I wonder if Woodhouse is annoyed with himself, all he would have had to do was say "no" if asked had he received the email from Boag & that would have been "good enough". Heron asked Boag did she send the email to anyone else & she said "no", Heron took her at her word. We pay him for that? Anyone could have got that result. Though, the Privacy Commissioner is still looking at it.
Perhaps Woodhouse gained his copies from someone other than Boag.
That is not what an investigator doing their job does – ever.
Someone fire him and ask for our money back.
Reading between the lines Labour is going very softly on the opposition at the moment. JA is serene and Hipkins is going in to bat for our very own Hitler youth.
There's a real sense of purpose in rising above the problems of their opponents and not getting involved.
Will the privacy commissioner check to see if Boag sent the email to anyone else?
If this is not going to happen, not good enough.
I don't think the Heron report was all that bad. It's essentially a fire service response: make sure the thing ain't still burning.
The privacy commissioner will do their review and I hope they throw the book at Boag in particular. If there's no book for them to throw, the MoH has hit the ARHT with a breach of contract notice, so that will make life fucky for them until they figure out how to stop a CEO telling people to send them patient data. But part of that might involve pursuing civil or criminal legal proceedings against employees apparently responsible for redirecting intellectual property into their personal possesssion instead of the Trust's. Which is a lovely thought.
Don't cart his kids off to Australia in the first place?
Hardliner I'm picking there, my sooty friend.
When you import people from Australia you are importing a much slacker attitude to Covid-19.
Imagine if everyone who came here for a funeral did this. We'd look like Victoria within two weeks.
They had 700 new cases today and 87 vulnerable people have died in Australia since they ‘beat’ the virus. That is fast approaching double their initial Covid deaths with only worse to come.
We’d be Melbourne x5 because of our weather and extremely poor housing in vulnerable communities.
Too much is at stake and I am genuinely surprised there is any sympathy for this woman here.
Fuck ’em.
Did you listen to her?
Nope. And I won't. Surprised she gets the air time, frankly.
Rightio.
100% Muttonbird
Elsewhere I have said the initial breach was annoying but the pimping of her case by RNZ and now some Standard faithful has got me really upset.
Ok, this is getting a little nasty; do you know what pimping means?
Of course I know what pimping means. I will retract if you order me to do so.
Like I say, this case had disappeared into the many cases of quarantine absconding until the media and some comments here re-highlighted it.
IMHO, accusing “some Standard faithful” of “pimping of her case” was misplaced. If you need to be ‘ordered’ to retract it means you think it was ok to make it personal with a most dubious statement 🙁
When those five people absconded, how “many cases of quarantine absconding” in total had there been here?
Well, I suppose that depends upon when they left and if they expected him to suddenly die at the time.
You're going soft on me Draco…
when you move overseas permanently, one of the things that will come to your mind is your death….the one of your elders for example.
I flew home when my mother was very ill with cancer, i arrived two hours short. I knew when marrying my kiwi husband and moving here that that would be a thing that could happen, that one day i would get a call that said so and so is ill, dying come now.
And sometimes we arrive in time and get to say good bye, and sometimes we don't. Btw, the only reason i was able to attend the funeral of my mum two weeks later was because the person from the funeral liased with the police to release the body of my mother faster then usual as i only had three weeks to stay at home. My mum passed away at home and by law there needs to be a autopsy to verify that she died of natural causes – in her case cancer, rather then say an opiod overdose.
So frankly that is a bullshit excuse. You don't generally expect anyone other then really old people to just die, but it happens. And you either live close enough to never miss a family death/funeral or you don't and then you accept that maybe you come to late.
If I have read you right, the subtle difference here is that the body was organised to be brought to Hamilton, to an appropriate facility.
The family would have a brief time with him, return to isolation, and the body goes back to Auckland for the 10.30 tangi.
the problem was that they could not wait until the final decision was made.
1 hour and 45 minutes – and they CHOOSE not to wait.
If it had been refused then, maybe i can find it in my heart to understand them. But they DID NOT WAIT. And that is what people are right fully upset about.
We know too little about this virus and the illnesses that it brings forth, we have the mess of the US / OZ / England / France /Spain / Italy to look at if we want to know how bad it can get. We might want to keep that in mind.
Well, yeah.
My point was that leaving wasn't the problem – it was the expecting everything to be the same after the pandemic hit.
Don/t have kids would be the final solution Muttonbird. So much easier and cuts complexity right down so one can see one's path straight and clear. And further don't have a partner or friend that makes life complex too.
Oh gsays it is boiling.
I'm releasing another Inquiry report just for you.
‐——–
"Inquiry report by Howard .I. Know QC
Because Mr.Hamish Walker and Ms. Michelle Boag have admitted their guilt, I surmise the following-:
1. By admission of their guilt the Inquiry will peruse the Evidence. At this level of jurisdiction, in my official power to make legal decisions and judgements, I called upon Ms. Boag and Mr. Walker to submit The Evidence.
2. Mr.Walker admitting a terrible mistake, was distressed and feeling picked on. He did not involve anyone else that mattered to this inquiry but Ms.Boag.
3. Ms. Boag was a number of a party who became a recipient of a highly confidential email from inept Health Ministry staff.
4. Because of the aforementioned admissions to the public later, no other persons are sequestered nor any computer databases sought.
Conclusion:
Along with privacy obligations written clearly on emails, I find the Ministry of Health should have encrypted their communications.
The two persons admitted their mistakes therefore I will pass this matter on to the Privacy Commission. I hope in that time that no other contextual data for evidence will be wiped. "
Signed H.I.KnowQC ".
‐——————-
Now for my invoice …..
I was wondering if Boag's maiden name was Heron…
This selfish woman had no concern for the safety and well being other people, and we’re supposed to do what after listening to her wee sob story?
Feel badly for her?
I don't fucking think so.
Did you listen to the interview?
Yup. She's special so she thinks she's entitled to put her own interests ahead of others. Fuck her.
That doesn't really reconcile with them all wearing their masks.
Yeah, it really actually does.
That's okay, then.
/
https://www.lexico.com/definition/special_pleading
Please expand?
You're citing an exception to the principle that doing a runner from quarantine is selfish and self serving.
Ta.
I figure when the clock is ticking, and the PTB are dragging their heels, there comes a time when you have to think and act for your family and self.
Because your family and self are special …..right?
/
You're engaging in logical fallacies to support an unsupportable position.
Really at the start of this, compassion arose after hearing Mum's version.
Not that what the family did was tickety-boo.
I went from being a gentle hardliner to a softer position when I had a fuller picture of goings on.
That's more of that special pleading.
She could release a statement on Hateful Comments Toward the Selfish Escapees from Quarantine Community.
https://twitter.com/russdiamond/status/1288488309816254469
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not only is the family dealing with a close death, the family need to remain in NZ until September for sentencing.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
This psycho woman needs to be billed for her and her kids' stay according to the new rules, after they get out of prison. Then they should be shipped back to Queensland where they belong.
Jeez, I trust you are just an anonymous keyboard warrior with no actual authority.
I have zero authority. Just an NZ citizen like you. She jimmied a window and broke out 5 people during the most dangerous pandemic in 100 years.
Ship her and her kids back to Queensland. That’s the life they chose.
I was mildly upset by the initial breach but I’m now wild at the sympathetic framing by RNZ and now some commenters on this forum.
Could be worse, you could be sick to death!
I, and my family of four are fine, thanks.
Full sport for them, nine engagements per week plus full academic classes uninterrupted.
Unlike Melbourne which has been forced back into an ill-considered L3 lockdown. No kids’ sport. It should be an Australia wide L4 lockdown.
This Queensland woman and her family jearpordised my family’s sacrifice and hundreds of thousands of other families like mine.
She can go back to AUS anytime and NZ will be much better off.
Of course, you are, because if you were dead like the father of those children, you wouldn’t be commenting here, would you, and your family would not be fine, would they? I have experienced a similar situation myself and I would not wish that upon anybody else, least of all on children.
I’m sure that family of five will be all right too, once they have done their time here and been kicked out of NZ. They’re obviously undesirables and unwanted in this lovely country that is ours and ours only.
Bizarre response, but ok then.
When I said “sick to death”, I was referring to your self-confessed emotional state regarding the mother and her four children and the commentary you’d been reading. It was also a reference to the melodramatic outburst by Judith Collins claiming “I’m sick to death of this stuff” about the Behrouz Boochani situation.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/judith-collins-plans-to-grill-jacinda-ardern-on-behrouz-boochani-s-refugee-status.html
Media and politicians love to play on and play up the emotive side of things.
Because that was all that was available? You may not have noticed but we don't have unlimited space.
Not it really couldn't have been.
You're here, the body's there. So, no, you can't see it.
Not hard, not complex and that's what she was told.
No. She wouldn't receiving a sentence if she'd just waited. And I'm pretty sure their situation was managed as well as it could be. Its not the people managing isolation that are wrong here – they are.
Yeah, shit happens. This does not allow for special cases.
Agree 100% Draco and Muttonbird
I read your comments.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been. Had the family been assigned a person who had the right skills to manage the families grief, their anxiety could have been reduced or fully KNOWN. Fight or flight response probably occurred due to the intensity of the situation for the family.
Isolation is required for 14 days to prevent community transmission. This does not mean that the body could not have been taken to a room where the family were staying.
There are so many ways in which Covid-19 can escape from isolation that any day this could happen.
I REPEAT "the situation was not handled as well as it could have been."
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
Yes, it was. Was it handled perfectly – no. It a quarantine situation there has to be give and take on both sides. This woman didn't give any.
I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her own damn emotions.
Your logical fallacy of the day is: Appeal to Emotion
"I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her damn emotions."
Her emotions were not being anticipated and they needed to be as there was a crisis unfolding.
Did anyone consider that the mother could try and escape and to prevent this?
And
How would you have prevented an escape?
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Finally! Someone asks the right question.
it may have something to do with a constrained capacity and the need to keep different cohorts separated and together in those limited facilities….Hamilton was prepared for that flight.
7000 individuals needs are difficult to cater for to the nth degree
Granted, this is a difficult situation and it is near impossible to meet everyone's expectations.
But, I assume this family made their situation clear to Whoever Was In Charge…to the point They seriously considered trucking the Deceased from Auckland to Hamilton to facilitate a viewing…why the hell could They not have injected a bit of flexibility into their system?
Perhaps a small van and a couple of driver/minders could have taken this whanau up the Expressway to say their private goodbyes? Four hours max….and they would have been back in their isolation digs by the time the bureaucrats had made their minds up.
And of course this could have be done safely…in the same manner they were trucked from Auckland to Hamilton in the first place.
On one hand I get folks are scared and angry that these 'selfish people put the lives of all at risk with their unreasonable demands', but on the other I have personal experience with MOH bureaucrats and have found them not overburdened with decision making abilities. Delay is their favourite tactic, common sense is a foreign concept.
Seriously…kindness and common sense would have gone a long way towards mitigating this particular shit-show.
The "real question" is what would YOU have done in the same circumstances, and why.
ie, would you have waited for conformation to be able to leave with permission.
or
Would you have broken out, knowingly breaking the Law.
This applies to all sides of the argument.
What would You have done?
I would have assessed the grief and anxiety that the mother had and then I would have supported her and the children until a decision was made. And were the decision to have been not seeing the body, I would have done everything I could knowing that there were limits.
Appearing in court probably was a blur and may of not been appropriate.
Lack of management grasping the situation was the main problem.
Treetop
Your arguing after the fact.
Was anyone in the quarantine facility even aware of the emotional distress the family were in?
If the answer is No, then difficult to provide care.
Is there a process for the returnees to access?
In these circumstances, of having to attend a funeral, if not, maybe a more robust system is required to acknowledge the potential risks, the system isn't geared towards people with anguish and anxiety from a loved one passing away.
They were awaiting a response to be delivered only a short time after they escaped.
Maybe this is a learning curve for the Border Quarantine managers, and has highlighted a deficiency in the system that deserves more consideration.
Nope, that is a distraction and a diversion towards a hypothetical situation and thus not the “real question” at all, IMO. We know what happened, more or less, and we need to understand it before we can make a sensible judgement about this particular case, if we feel inclined to do so. They have admitted the breach so that’s not in question.
Hypothetical
Because you're not sure what your own response might be if you were placed in the same circumstances?
Would you have raised a flag, asked for more assistance, or forced a window to escape?
My hypothetical is whether this particular family, knowing what they know now (and what some suggest they knew then, e.g. that their application was receiving favourable consideration), including the prospect of a sympathetic 20-minute interview on RNZ, and the charges and potential penalties they face, would do anything differently. I hope that they would, for everyone's sake – if they wouldn't then some things need to change, e.g. more focused help and advice for those experiencing unusually high levels of stress.
When large numbers of people (by NZ standards) find themselves in (stressful) circumstances that carry an unusual health risk (to themselves and/or others), then any hint that the rules governing those circumstances are flexible is asking for trouble. We saw this in lockdown (heck, the Minister of Health ultimately lost his portfolio because of poor judgement over his movements), and I'd suggest that we'll see more of it if the idea that you can ‘have a go‘ at breaching border quarantine without significant consequences gains traction.
Patients is a rare human trait.
Emotional greif clouds peoples judgment.
Border Quarantine is there to protect every NZer.
We need to learn from these experiences and make adjustments accordingly.
The Wespac helicopter could have flowen the body to Hamilton and returned by van.
The details would need to have been managed carefully and agreed by the mother. A person can only make an informed decision when they have all the details.
Common sense was required and not politics or an unnecessary delay in making a decision.
Not to sure but culturally the body is not removed at night. So cultural awareness was lacking.
Because its quarantine.
And then we'd have thousands of people demanding the same bloody thing with an inevitable loss of quarantine.
No, it wouldn't. The breaking of quarantine is inherently not safe.
Common sense is a fallacy being neither common nor sense.
What would have easily mitigated this shit show was a stupid, selfish person not breaking quarantine.
the woman was put in Hamilton because quarantine places are limited and Hamilton must have been the place they could accommodate her family. FFS this isn't a holiday we are offering people. Go where you are sent, because the priority is keeping NZders safe
I have sympathy for her predicament but … she appears to have no comprehension of the catastrophe she could have caused … and the first people impacted would have been her own whanau.
In her radio interview, rather than apologizing for her actions, she just tried to vindicate them by blaming everyone else.
Everyone seemed to be bending over backwards to give her what she wanted (at no cost to her from what I can tell) but because it wasn't on her timetable she decided that noone but herself mattered.
You spoke to soon about any reaction. Your topic of the mother's interview gave some strong views.
Wow to the response.
Seems having more money than dog makes you stupid.
https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1288521738641342473
what interests me about that story is not that Madonna did something stupid, but the number of liberals who are believing the Frontline Doctors propaganda, despite the known connections to pro-fascist right. That group of otherwise progressive people is growing, and they're a dangerous mix of libertarianism, poor science literacy, and apolitical world views.
More important to them than left/right is concern about the government and authority. The left really needs to stop ridiculing them, and remember how radicalisation works. In NZ we still have the chance to create a better culture than in the US, but that window won't be open for long and the right are actively promoting politics that takes advantage of the disaffection.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/29/madonnas-instagram-flagged-for-spreading-coronavirus-misinformation
Lost eyes all over the shop….
https://twitter.com/RachelBitecofer/status/1288615177643003911