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David Cunliffe on the state of the media in New Zealand

Written By: - Date published: 9:00 am, November 5th, 2015 - 109 comments
Categories: david cunliffe, labour, Media - Tags:

109 comments on “David Cunliffe on the state of the media in New Zealand”

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

    Watched this earlier. It made David Carter grumpy 🙂

    I hope Cunliffe (and Labour) are going somewhere with this: the speech tells us the state of things without proposing any solutions. Perhaps that’s coming in the next speech…

    • Observer (Tokoroa) 1.1

      So OAB

      The solution is to change the Government. As you well know. But perhaps that won’t please You or your carping Greens. More the Pity.

      Congratulations David Cunliffe. You are outstanding.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1

        One of the ways to change (ie: become) the government is to seize the narrative, not just on this front, either. The Radio NZ (Catch-Up Funding) Amendment Bill isn’t going to do that.

        Anyway, with their conference on Labour has a good chance to seize a few moments and I hope they do.

    • RedLogix 1.2

      That speech is jammed full of issues and detail. Almost all of them covered here at The Standard by one author or another.

      Now we know from the other thread that Stuart Nash will have written that speech off as ‘vile, negative bile’ and ‘out of touch with political realities’ – but what about – whose the Labour leader again? Haven’t heard boo from the guy in ages.

    • AmaKiwi 1.3

      @ One Anonymous Bloke

      I’m afraid the solution is too threatening for any major party because as long as Parliament is sovereign the ruling party can do anything with impunity.

      The solution lies in taking power from Parliament and distributing power to other parts of the system. It’s called “checks and balances” and we don’t have it. We never will until the people decide some of these watchdogs and their budgets must be beyond the control of the ruling party of the day.

      • Lara 1.3.1

        +100

        Yes.

        Most definitely we need it.

        Our last bastion of checks and balances at this stage may be the judiciary.

  2. Ffloyd 2

    Cunliffe should also have mentioned the bias of the Speaker of the House toward National Party. Especially the way he allows key to run off at the mouth without interruption. Deplorable.

    • srylands 2.1

      Have you ever heard of Margaret Wilson?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1

        So much for personal responsibility…

        but but but Llllaaaabbbbooooouuuuurrrrrr!!!!!!

        • Dave 2.1.1.1

          It highlights why the Speaker should be appointed by Parliament, but not out of the existing stocks, it should be someone from the Judiciary, or someone of enough mana that all people agree on, and the person nominated shouldn’t want the job.

          • greywarshark 2.1.1.1.1

            Sounds sensible. ‘Let’s not do it.’

          • Brendon Harre -Left wing Liberal 2.1.1.1.2

            By a unanimous Parliament or at least 75% of MPs. We need some independent bodies in our political system. Sticking to the rugby metaphor. Rugby games were pretty crap when home countries used their own ref’s.

          • kenny 2.1.1.1.3

            What about the Speaker coming from one of the Opposition parties?

            • Matthew Whitehead 2.1.1.1.3.1

              Same problem, but in reverse.

              We need independent Speakers who act as actual referees, are committed to increasing public participation in Parliament, rigorous debate, and ensuring questions are answered in an apolitical fashion.

              It would be better that Speakers were independently appointed, (not from the pool of MPs) were employees of Parliament, or perhaps directly elected. (there are disadvantages to each approach, especially the last one as it could turn just as politicized as electorate races)

          • Nessalt 2.1.1.1.4

            Then folks like OAB and DTB et al won’t agree with who is appointed because national have a parliamentary majority and that’s not democracy because they didn’t win the election. they only got more votes than any other party by screwing the scrum. sob sob sob sob the media have elected this speaker, not parliament

            the left in this country is so deluded about what the reality in New Zealand, on any subject, it’s appalling. having an effective opposition is a corner stone of parliamentary democracy. I can see now why the opposition is so terrible at being an opposition. Whoever still votes for labour and the greens and turn out in support at conferences and local electorate bodies are, to put it bluntly, stupid.

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1.4.1

              David Cunliffe’s analysis is spot on.

              Further, the people who run the National Party know that he is spot on.

              That is why they have taken all those extensive steps to “screw the scrum” – because National dare not give the public a fair chance and a level playing field with which to judge them on.

            • Tracey 2.1.1.1.4.2

              Cheese with your whiiiiiine?

            • Stuart Munro 2.1.1.1.4.3

              You’re right of course – the Gnats have put the fix on this voting system – so how are they to be removed from power, since they are manifestly incompetent to the tune of $100 billion dollars so far? This government is the most expensive failure in NZ history.

          • whateva next? 2.1.1.1.5

            John Campbell

      • Tracey 2.1.2

        Ah the Labour did it too defence … totally ignoring Keys promise to enforce higher standards from his government

    • AmaKiwi 2.2

      I have long argued the Speaker should be an impartial judge approved by 75% of the MPs.

      How can you have a fair debate when the judge belongs to one of the debating teams.

      Who would mind going to trial if they could appoint the judge deciding the case.

  3. David Cunliffe is correct in every aspect in what he delivered in that speech.
    Well done.

    Where the hell is the Media in not high lighting these facts ?

    Democracy , how the hell can we say that this country is still a democracy when it is obvious it is not.
    We are being controlled by a slimy few from the inner National Party.

    Never, ever has there been a more devious Govt.
    Surely that other irritant in this debacle, Peter Dunne can see where we are heading in this country, why does he keep these parasites in power ?

    Show some gumption Peter Dunne and pull the pin on National !
    Same goes to the Maori Party, stop this charade.

  4. Observer (Tokoroa) 4

    More important than making David Carter grumpy, Cunliffe explained how The High Court found The Ombudsman illegally sucked up to Groser.

    She has thoroughly trashed her integrity for John Key; and dirtied her once proud office for him.

    Sick

  5. Hami Shearlie 5

    David Cunliffe has integrity and depth – Stuart Nash the polar opposite.

  6. Bill 6

    He needed to have been giving that type of speech back at the last election around the time of Dirty Politics, instead of doing the ‘positive message regardless’ thing. Oh well.

    • savenz 6.1

      +1 Bill – but who knows maybe Cunliffe wanted too – he probably had loads of ‘advice’ to the contrary by his ‘team’ to stay on ‘task’.

      What Labour needs is political courage and to show they are prepared to fight back. Hence all this positive outpouring from Cunliffe’s speech in The Standard when Cunliffe shows political courage by this speech. Everyone also cheered when Little said ‘show some guts’.

      The voters want Labour MP’s like Cunliffe who still have Labour values of anti corruption – not as has been implied by another Labour MP the National way of raising ‘shit loads of money and forget your principals to win’.

      Cunliffes speech is resonating with the population!! And more importantly some in Labour seem to be more aware of the problem – it is not a FAIR fight or a FAIR election with dirty politics!

      Don’t be dirty or pretend it’s not happening, fight the right, for a FAIR fight!

      • Gangnam Style 6.1.1

        Little said ‘cut the crap!’ (show some guts was when Key was justifying sending troops overseas), but you are right otherwise, in this world of airbrushed pap & committee written speeches we are hungry for some truth.

        • savenz 6.1.1.1

          Sorry mean’t cut the crap! Was also trying to also point out that it should not be one Labour line against another and not trying to pit Cunliffe against Little – when either says something good, it is good for all in Labour.

          I’d like to see Little put Cunliffe as No 2 or 3. Key did not get on with English but he still put him into finance. Labour needs to do similar and put their best people at the top.

    • whateva next? 6.2

      media would have criticised his tie being wonky anyway

  7. Colonial Viper 7

    I guess that certain faction in caucus hates Cunliffe just a little bit more after he pulls good shit like this off.

  8. Mike the Savage One 8

    I heard the speech via the radio broadcast from Parliament, it was good to hear that at least one MP from the Labour caucus dares to state clearly the abysmal situation we have with the rotten, bought and manipulated mainstream media in this country. I am worried though, whether David Cunliffe did speak so openly, because he may consider not standing again for Parliament next election.

    Time will tell. Most if not all in Labour dare say nothing about the biased and generally poorly informing media.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      Remember, most of the Labour Caucus view the MSM as their main constituency, not us poor saps in the voting public.

      • Mike the Savage One 8.1.1

        It has really troubled me to see a fair few turn up on the Paul Henry breakfast program, but it is always a balancing act, to be heard and taken note of at all, at the risk of being ridiculed by Henry, or to risk not being taken note of by staying away. You are damned if you do deal with the present MSM, you are damned if you do not. Hence also the Greens, NZ First and so talk with the most useless or biased reporters and program hosts at times.

        • b waghorn 8.1.1.1

          The henry / gower segment this morning made some good points about labour around Little needing to show where labour is heading and how they have to be careful releasing policy to soon because the nats will flog it.Henry even commended Little for his success in unifying caucus.

          • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1

            My prediction – Little will lose the next election and Robertson will put his hand up for the Leadership yet again. And this time he will get it.

            • b waghorn 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Na I reckon labour /nzf with greens in support . I know you want radicle change and now but i’ll settle for a.government with integrity for starters.
              I think Little is boxing clever and will get stronger as time goes on.

            • Hami Shearlie 8.1.1.1.1.2

              There will be very few members left in the Party if that happens I would think. Robertson couldn’t set a barbecue on fire. Just hasn’t got the chops for that job or the finance one either. You either have it, or you don’t, and he doesn’t! Robertson is not politically brave, it’s that simple.

            • Stuart Munro 8.1.1.1.1.3

              If so Labour will reach 10% next election.

          • whateva next? 8.1.1.1.2

            “have to be careful releasing policy to soon because the nats will flog it”
            I totally agree, they goad and demand Labour policies, then do a wek copy or hack them apart

          • Mike the Savage One 8.1.1.1.3

            A Paul Henry commendation is like a cyanide capsule dropped into your drink, while you are not aware of it (done behind your back).

  9. savenz 9

    I’d vote for him.

  10. greywarshark 10

    I’ve been reading Chris Trotter’s Bowalley Road lately. He seems incandescent over the media being largely kept out of the coming Labour conference. Its all to be ‘in the family’ except for a few open opportunities to gather info. (Which family might that be – ‘the Cosa Nostra’?)

    In his recent essay – Burning Down The House: Why Does The Labour Caucus Keep Destroying The Labour Party In Order To Save It? – he says this:
    Only a mass influx of people determined to make policy – not tea – can rescue the Labour Party from the self-perpetuating parliamentary oligarchy that currently controls it.
    Only a rank-and-file membership that is conscious of, and willing to assert, its rights – as the Corbynistas are doing in the United Kingdom – has the slightest hope of selecting a caucus dedicated to circulating the whole oxymoronic notion of democratic elitism out of New Zealand’s political system altogether.

    In his latest piece – All In The Family: Labour’s President Keeps The Media Out Of His Party’s Annual Conference. – on what he sees is a disaster for progressive Labour in banning media scrutiny and report, he says –
    [Professor Nigel Haworth] the party’s president explained that its proceedings needed to be kept “in the family”. Putting to one side the obvious fact that a political party is nothing like a family…. Families that shut their doors and draw their curtains against the outside world are often trying to hide something. …

    Paradoxically, what Haworth and the Leader of the Opposition, Andrew Little, are trying to hide isn’t in the least bit shameful or ugly. Free and frank political debate is the declared objective of the media ban. “We want people to be able to speak freely and frankly and be reported appropriately”, was the way Haworth put it to Trevett

    Curiously, the Herald journalist did not challenge Haworth’s implication that she and her colleagues would not report the delegates’ statements “appropriately”. Nor did Trevett point out to the Herald’s readers that with the news media excluded from important debates party leaders can crack down hard on dissident delegates with impunity.

    This is no small consideration. At the 2012 annual conference, held in the Auckland suburb of Ellerslie, journalists were able to report the extraordinary vitriol hurled at disobedient delegates by Labour MPs. The latter were furious that the conference had voted contrary to their instruction. They were probably even more furious that their behaviour was reported…..

    Free and frank discussion is actually much more likely when the whole world’s watching. Absent the television lights, anyone daring to challenge the top table is likely to be flayed alive by individuals who throw insults for a living.

    • Chooky 10.1

      +100 greywarshark…good points..”Free and frank discussion is actually much more likely when the whole world’s watching…

    • Tracey 10.2

      Its the stategy that works for the nats

      • greywarshark 10.2.1

        Tracey
        Yes Chris noted that and it worries him to see Labour choosing the same tactic.
        http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2015/11/litmus-test-will-labours-rank-and-file.html

        “ONLY ONE political party conference matters in New Zealand”, says veteran political journalist, Richard Harman. “The National Party’s conference is little more than a PR presentation; NZ First keeps theirs behind closed doors and the Greens is entirely predictable.” But, according to Harman, Labour conferences are different. As recently as 2012, he says, “Labour’s has been coloured by political blood on the floor.”

        There’s a very good reason for paying attention to what goes on at Labour Party Conferences, and that’s because the political fault line dividing the defenders of the status quo from the advocates of real change runs right down the middle of the conference floor. It’s been that way since the 1980s

        I think Chris fears that if they close off reports of dissent and bruising argument about policy and method, it will take a major earthquake to bring the present Labour edifice tumbling down despite the shoddy engineering that has gone into the soulless concrete slab construction of modern Labour.

        • greywarshark 10.2.1.1

          Tracey
          And here is an opposing and well argued viewpoint from Anonymous on Chris’s points.

          Anonymous Anonymous said…
          I won't deny that at least some of what you claim are indeed risks of closed conferences. But while I can't speak for Labour, as a Green Party member, I prefer it when our debates occur away from the media glare. There is far greater pressure to watch what one says when the media is present and why wouldn't there be? Most in the media wouldn't know nuance if they fell over it and aren't interested in policy debates despite protestations. They want to report controversy and personal animosity and are happy to invent it when there is not enough on offer. Rank and file members are very aware that what they read in the papers often bears little resemblance to what they experienced, and it pisses them off.

          And as for your attempt at high principle in claiming the internal workings of a party are the property of the entire public rather than the party's members, that is just journalistic self interest. What a party owes the public is a clear statement of it's principles, it's policies and it's priorities, plus a commitment to stick with all three in return for a vote. It cannot ask for more.
          5 November 2015 at 22:20

  11. The Real Matthew 11

    Nothing ever changes on the New Zealand left does it.

    3 election defeats and still blaming everyone else. The world is against us. The media are bias. The NZ media could hardly be more left if they tried. The NZ Herald still offers column space to discredited far left economist Professor Jane Kelsey. You don’t see them offering the same space to the far right.

    You guys spend so much time stressing over conspiracy theories rather than considering what’s steering you in the face. You policies suck and you don’t have a credible leader.

    • Puckish Rogue 11.1

      Much easier to blame everyone and everything else for your problems then it is to realise the worlds moved on and that you’re stuck in the past

      • Stuart Munro 11.1.1

        Hell it’s you righties who want a return to feudalism – you expect to avoid jacquery as well? The two go hand in hand.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2

      The policies suck so much Dear Leader has to keep copying them. Fish, meet barrel.

    • greywarshark 11.3

      The R Matthew
      You…………………suck and you don’t have a credible………………

      You can fill in the gaps in your own fashion. Which won’t amount to much I am sure.

    • ilicit 11.4

      I’m maybe an undecided voter “The Real Matthew”, and I will be dead before the next elections, dammit.

      But it’s far right thinking that got this country into such a mess, no wonder MSM have finally started to figure out the truth.

      There maybe not many decent journalists left after the recent “crystal nights”, but their words sneak through.

      Without the likes of Jane Kelsey, how can we find balance in bullshit !!!!

    • Mike the Savage One 11.5

      “steering” us “into the face”? Grammar check, perhaps, spelling check, perhaps? The steering is done from the PM’s Office, and their lackey’s offices, the staring is also there, but it is that of hopeless players in government, doing all to play smoke and mirrors and make the ones in public (apparently incl. you) think, it is all fair dink-um and real.

      What a waste of an argument, perhaps consult your computer for the spelling check button first, mate.

  12. Leftie 12

    Spot on David Cunliffe, that was an awesome speech. No mincing of words there, Cunliffe laid it all out.

  13. esoteric pineapples 13

    Still waiting for Labour to come out with unequivocal support for a non-commercial, government funded national television channel.

    • Matthew Hooton 13.1

      What is a “television channel”?
      What will a “television channel” be in 2020?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1

        What do you mean by “will”, “is”, and “be”?

      • Mike the Savage One 13.1.2

        Mr Hoot on and off, TV will be with us for many years to come, the only difference will be, they will not broadcast and present programs in the old fashioned way, they will embrace multi media, have many platforms, and use web based and other services, like On Demand, much more.

        You will never have a nice large screen in a living room be replaced for viewing by tiny tablet and smart phone screens. It is not the same experience, and people will continue to watch TV, same as some will continue to buy hard copy books, mags and papers also.

        It is better for the eyes, as that much blue light from screens we use here, is not at all good for your eyes, for your general health, and especially not the nervous system. It makes for poor sleep and information uptake, due to poor concentration. It can worsen or cause depression. Also are online and internet services quite addictive, which will explain your and some of our presence here, will it not?

        That is just one other aspect of the wider problem of dumbing down people, which is a main problem we have.

        As you will likely earn money paid by companies promoting this technology, to dumb down, you will not want to discuss this, I bet.

    • arkie 13.2

      Ah, TVNZ 7, we knew you so little.

    • srylands 13.3

      You will be waiting a very long time.

  14. KB 14

    Great speech – good on you David Cunliffe!

  15. Batman 15

    Long time lurker, first time commenter.

    The mere fact that you are all loving Cunliffe’s speech, demonstrates how out of touch a loony it was!

    Seems very much like that speech was paypack for Mickey’s hit on Nash.

    Ban me if you like, I have no interest in engaging, only laughing at your continuing collective intellectual dishonesty and stupidity

    Happy Thursday all!

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      So having been ignoring us you’ve decided to move to the laughing stage. No, wait, you’re the joke.

    • Leftie 15.2

      Defensive much Batman? It’s more like your intellectual dishonesty and stupidity is being laughed at.

    • Mike the Savage One 15.3

      “loony”, a throwaway comment with no evidence or anything worth noting, what a tosser, I reckon. I like people presenting an argument and some stuff to back them up, but not such rubbish. You lost as soon as you came with that word I first mentioned.

    • b waghorn 15.4

      Did you know that in some parts bat is slang for wank.

  16. nukefacts 16

    brilliant speech. Highlights so much that is wrong with politics in NZ, as practised by the National party. Creeping authoritarianism to keep themselves in power because they have no solutions to the issues facing NZ, just want to give themselves and their mates more money at the expense of ordinary NZ’ers.

  17. ankerawshark 17

    Great speech DC. I bet he has been longing to say that for some time. I see Bryce Edwards has tweeted it.

  18. alwyn 18

    That was quite an amazing speech he gave. It was certainly nothing like his anodyne performance in the campaign.
    It does appear that he needs some advice on side-effects of medications though.
    Even a small amount of alcohol can have results like this when the person is on medicines like Clozapine or Risperidone. I think he should have been warned, as it certainly looks like those side-effects in his behaviour.

  19. greywarshark 19

    Scoop is seeking 1000 Kiwis who care about the future of NZ News media
    Dear Scoop Foundation Pledgers,
    Thank you for your very generous support.
    With 12 days to go we have reached 37% of our target. However that means we have 63% of the target to go and we really need your help to get there

    If you can please forward this email to friends, family, colleagues and or people who you think will be interested. We only need 600 more people to join us to get this show on the road!.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/sections/comment.html

    Pledgeme’s update on the latest from Scoop’s fundraiser. Now is the time to come to the aid of the party. And Scoop is the party providing news and views to be trusted so we can understand what is going on behind the wordy smoke screens and smiley images.

    If you can’t afford much give the $16 pledge which they have obviously put in knowing the state of many people’s finances. A responsive thoughtful move. But do something if you want to see NZ improve, even stop sliding over the cliff. Their words will be more effective than yours here, but together make a worthy tool to prick the barriers of the self-centred.

    (lprent I thought that Scoop’s situation would justify the rare use of so much bold. Hope you agree. How is the weather in…Italy?)

    If. – The mighty word with huge potential!

    • lprent 19.1

      I might have to contribute a little myself.

      Italy: Pretty chilly, good work, great weather, and I have to say that I haven’t found a decent wine yet. But the food….

      Sunday afternoon in Innsbruck

      What happens when you leave your car out, 15 minutes of ice chipping. Now I use the garage.

      This evening…

      • Ad 19.1.1

        Lyn, not sure if you’ll get a chance, but I would thoroughly recommend Assisi. I had a great week there in April this year.

        It’s right up on the side of a mountain, and in the evening the son sets the length of a great u-valley that stretches for hundreds of kilometres in each direction, and the light and shadow and colour change every 30 seconds I swear. Particularly in the colder months.

        Slightly closer to where you are, make sure you get to The Last Supper in Milan. Milan’s pleasures are few – so you have to plan carefully. And the main cathedral honestly is too twee for me. But if you don’t come back with a decent pair of shoes for Her In Doors, you’ll have a few questions I’m sure.

  20. Freemark 20

    Cunliffe deserved to be PM obviously.
    “Sorry for being a Man” would have been a real winner in the changing rooms after the AB’s won the RWC.. especially in that faux PI inflection he did on the back of the bus a few years ago.
    I’m surprised he hasn’t given up and tried to get a real job by now, or better yet started a business & paid maximum tax – & maximum wage to the parents of the million kids in poverty…
    FFS, delusional seems to not only exist, but seems mandatory to Lefties.

    • Colonial Viper 20.1

      you think you’re smart but you just keep showing us what an imbecile you really are.

      [lprent: Pointless abuse and stupid flame inducing at that. But for your comment I’d have had been able to moderate Mr Rylands. On the other hand he probably wouldn’t have made such a comment without this pinheaded comment to induce it. ]

      • greywarshark 20.1.1

        Freemark
        You can talk the talk, but in fact you’d be walking for ever if you had to ask for directions to find your way home. Pop out and let off your firecrackers and bangers, that is something you could manage. Try not to set the hillside on fire, or go on past 10pm will you. There are responsible adults trying to get their sleep before again coping with the real world.

        • greywarshark 20.1.1.1

          I guess mine is pointless abuse too. I should just leave them alone in their own gated community, and ignore their stupidity of which they seem inordinately proud.

      • srylands 20.1.2

        Says the vaccine denier.

    • Korero Pono 20.2

      “Freemark” All I can say it is just as well that none of the ABs are sporting long hair and ponytails because JK’s ponytail debacle (and creepy fetish) far outweighs any supposed gaffes that DC has committed.

  21. savenz 21

    Obviously the trolls coming out …..

  22. reason 22

    “Sorry for being a man” was in the context of us winning the world cup …… for domestic violence

    Cunliffe was quite correct …………. New Zealand men should be ashamed of our number 1 ranking for domestic violence in the developed world

    FreeMark like John Key would never get near an AB’s changing room based on anything they’d ever achieved playing the game rugby ……………

    Jockstrap sniffers and pony tail pulling hanger-on s like freemark and Key grease they way into places like that ……….and act like stalkers when they get there

    Cunliffe is also correct that our media is pretty rooted and a right wing stitch up on places like tv3, the herald etc

    People generally make the logical and correct choices when presented with all the information ………..

    National are masters at suppressing and manipulating information …… and running dirty politics smear campaigns………..

    Northlands bye-election drubbing for the Nats showed what happens when the majority get it together and act semi-cohesively against the largest minority …………………. which is all the Nats/act are.

    Hope-fully the lesson stuck a bit ………….

  23. Stuart Munro 23

    Very important for the trolls to silence Cunliffe’s message for some reason – painful truths to a crowd entirely unfamiliar with truth perhaps.

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