- Date published:
10:41 am, July 11th, 2013 - 50 comments
Categories: business, class war, Ethics, national - Tags: gambling, pokies, sky city, social harm, suicide
One of the Nat/SkyCity (same thing?) lines in the pokies debate was that the new machines would be in a monitored and controlled environment. That appears to be bullshit:
#SkyCity #dirtydeal allows pokies to be installed in Auckland InterCity Bus Terminal. http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2013/0140/latest/DLM5362254.html …
Pokies in bus terminals. Bus terminals! Recall the social harm that is going to result:
Thousands more face gambling harm
Thousands more people could experience gambling harm as a result of concessions for SkyCity in exchange for a new convention centre, documents show.
The Government today released papers discussing the potential harm of the deal after unveiling the final details of the agreement with SkyCity on Saturday.
The casino operator will build a $402 million international convention centre in Auckland, in exchange for an extension of its Auckland casino licence out to 2048, 230 more pokie machines, 40 more gaming tables and new cashless gaming technology.
Currently in New Zealand, there are 2800 gaming machines and 200 gaming tables, with more than 1600 machines and more than 100 tables at SkyCity Auckland.
The concessions will increase nationwide pokie machine numbers by 8.2 percent, while table numbers will increase by 20 percent.
Discussing the potential harm of increased machine and table numbers in early 2011, the Department of Internal Affairs noted 2006/07 figures showing 87,000 adults experienced problems over the previous 12 months due to someone’s gambling. …
Only a fraction of those affected by problem gambling seek help, and the cost of intervention services is only a fraction of the harm costs, which range from poor parenting to crime, lost productivity, family issues and suicide.
Those voting for this Bill are voting for more social harm, including more suicide.
The Greens have a page up with contact details for Nat MPs, so that you can email them with your request not to create more pokie victims.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention r0b. I hope a lot of Aucklanders realise that this is happening in their city under Key’s direction.
What a load of crap.
Where are all these problem gamblers going to come from?, if there wasn’t an existing casino then yes without a doubt there would be an increase in problem gamblers.
But there is an existing casino which caters to all the problem gamblers in Auckland so these extra machines won’t make one iota of difference.
The real question is why the left want to throw spanners into the economy of NZ and rob the NZ public of a valuable asset, is it purely just to spite National and try to score some cheap points.
The fact the most of the major labour politicians were more than happy to turn up and partake in Sky citys hospitality leads me to believe that may indeed be the case.
They are created by access to pokie machines.
We must make pokie machines more difficult and unpleasant to access, not easier.
So what’s stopping all these extra problem gamblers at the moment?
What is it about the pokies in this convention center that’s going to turn people into problem gamblers?
If some one wants to piss money away on the pokies they can wander down to any number of pubs and do it there.
personal responsibility and all that…
Yes infused, our (your’s and mine) personal responsibility to protect the weak from the predatory.
Is that you Jesus?
appears you two dont have much of an argument – otherwise you would have made it by now
The fact that you guys think that giving a shit about the exploitation of others is beyond sainthood says it all, really.
Fuck off to Somalia and see how successful you’d be without a government protecting your own weak arses.
Gambling to Somalia… lol.
framu, argument to your points has already been made months ago.
see – still not much of an argument. Its like youve stopped trying.
If you dont like my comments theres plenty of other salient ones on this topic – but, well… preschool taunts is as far as youve risen
Gambling machines are designed by behavioural and motivational psychologists using the latest in psychological and addictive behaviour research.
The lights, sounds and other aspects of gambling machine design is absolutely finely tuned and precision implemented.
While infused and BM may be ignorant and unaware of the human factors science which is implemented in each pokie machine, the casinos and machine manufacturers themselves are not.
cool – im into that. So why are tax payer stumping up millions to promote a private business and why are ratepayers going to be pinged with disbursement fees to a private business?
why arent sky city responsible for their own personal business?
Who gave you the power to decide for others, Colonial Viper?
BM take it up with the government: it’s their impact statement. You really need to stop blaming Labour for your shit.
Why do SkyCity want to expand their business if there will be no added return BM?
Have you ever being to a casino?
A lot of the posters on here seem to be from down south and especially from that socialist hell hole Dunedin.
So this may come as a shock but the vast majority of people can go to a casino, have a good time, spend a bit of money and go home still wearing their shirt.
A conference center will bring in more punters by tapping into another associated market, which will make sky city money.
It will also make the city of Auckland more money, it’s one of those win win deals.
Don’t know why you ran off on some rant like an idiot…
Dunedin has many fine residents, not me though. No matter where people are from in this country they all deserve to have a voice on any social issue.
But getting back to your stupid statement : ” Where are all these problem gamblers going to come from?, if there wasn’t an existing casino then yes without a doubt there would be an increase in problem gamblers.”
If sky want extra machines and tables but there will be no increase in revenue, why would they bother?
The Auckland InterCity Bus Terminal is not a casino, BM. Do you think it is just possible that in such an environment a gambling addiction could easily start and develop?
“It will also make the city of Auckland more money”
really? – i guess you can then link us to a detailed financial business case study to back up that claim then?
most people can do cocaine without becoming addicted.
The harm felt and inflicted by the minority who do, however, outweighs the economic benefits.
Same with gambling. Companies have gone under because the local casino took all the money that a financial administrator was prepared to steal.
This is NOT for foreigners to gamble here.
Many years ago Greece has one casino. In order to enter you had to show a foreign passport. NO locals were allowed to gamble.
That’s what you do if you are serious about not harming the local economy.
No, it won’t!
The flow on is that, should the Sky City deal fail, it will be propped up using other methods, don’t be fooled, regardless of this deal, SC, will not be losing a dime!
It also opens up the opportunity for the already, well understood corruption operating inside the casino, an expanded operation, with which to function, and prosper.
The damage from the current casino scale is already large enough. Get down to the district court sometime, and see how many cases are related to Sky City, if you want to get a feel for the variants in the secondary/tertiary crime flow, coming out of the casino!
“But there is an existing casino which caters to all the problem gamblers in Auckland so these extra machines won’t make one iota of difference.”
Come on BM, don’t you know how Capital Expenditure is justified in businesses. Money spent on Capital requires a return, more pokies will bring in X extra gambling $=more problem gamblers.
Sky City aren’t stupid, you are though.
Pokie machines are excellent conduits for economic Darwinism.
Very good at seperating complete morons from their cash.
Money is actually dangerous in the hands of these retards.
So let’s not have an international convention centre because there are some idiots out there who lack impulse control and while we are at it let’s make all woman cover themselves from head to toe when in public because a very small number of blokes get a bit rapey.
no – lets not have a conference center because as yet there is no actual business case that says we need one and that it will be a financial success
focusing on increased problem gamblers – while part of the equation, is a red herring
the bigger issues are
– incorrect and sloppy tender process
– deals done in secret to the detriment of other bidders
– political corruption
– law changes that favour a single private business
– lack of community consultation
– lack of business case
– contradiction of govt documents by ministers (simultaneously pimping for duplicate centers in other cities when govt paperwork clearly states theres no the market for it)
– deliberate and misleading statements from govt ministers
– govt interference in due diligence
– highly dubious, bordering on outright fabrication of number and type of jobs created
– butt ugly design
There were other groups willing to build a conference center for free.?
you know exactly what that means BM – stop being a cock
but its good that youve accepted all those other points as issues – surely if there was a problem you would have made some idiotic comment about them to signify your non-acceptance
For the political block who likes to crow about how awesome they are at business who lot are behaving like economic neanderthals on this one
My friend’s business ruined because his bookkeeper was a problem gambler. She was eventually caught but not until a fine business was destroyed and a lot of people who were NOT gamblers lost their jobs.
We don’t try to stop people from destroying their bodies with alcohol. We try to stop them from killing US on the roads.
I expect you will be there parting with your cash then.
Now that it will be a conscience vote, I wonder if those Labour members who were enjoying Skycity’s hospitality at Eden Park will show their gratitude…
so by receiving hospitality means they have bought their vote? is this why john key & national are going to vote for it?
National Party MP’s are being bullied by Key to vote for the Pokies Bill. They are not allowed to have a conscience, just like Key, they have to obey the will of their corporate commanders…befehl ist befehl.
Yes, it was a clever tactical move by Carter (and Key). They knew they had the votes beforehand.
I am sure there are a few in Labour who would be in favour of this deal. Do you not think they are being told that they must vote against it even though it is a personal vote.
No and no.
I wasn’t aware that National determined conscience votes for other parties….
Perhaps you should read up on the subject rather than looking quite so ignorant.
Farmer suicides. Government policy of capital farming forcing higher farmland prices is leading to greater harm. I call it the low key neo-liberal agenda. Whether it be undermining Hobbit loving unionists, or empowering a monopoly casino with their own train station, its clear whose to get the rewards from growth.
As for casino and conference jobs, what happens to the jobs the money that would have been spent in the economy and is now destined to flow straight into the hands of the owners of the casino, leaving families without food, on a direct path to ill health, and tax payer help.
concerning agricultural debt; “15-20% of farmers (individuals and families, in the main) are at extreme risk” (of defaulting).-RNZ
Its okay, Chinese investors are lining up to buy the land, Key did such a good job of ignoring both farmers exposed to the capital farming scam, and on the other side of the debtate how we cannot buy Chinese land to balance out the inequality.
and now sky city are issuing outright threats
” Morrison said the bitter and long-contested process culminating in the Government and SkyCity signing a deal on July 8 had made the casino a “political football” subject to savage attacks.”
– well perhaps skycity shouldnt have gotten involved with corrupt backroom practices on a deal that they knew should’ve been out in the open. Skycity and nationals own actions turned it into the political football
“It’s been quite horrific, quite frankly,” Morrison said of some opposition to the deal.”
– aww boo fricken hoo – toughen up you champion of industry
“Morrison said SkyCity had considered and then rejected defamation action against some of the deal’s more vociferous opponents. ”
– HA HA HA – best joke of the day
why are these titans of free market industry such damn wimps?
Saying that increasing the numbers of pokie machines in the existing casino will increase the number of problem gamblers is like saying incresing the size of the biggest McDonalds in central Auckland will increase obesity! It’s not the size of a one-off casino that is the big problem, it’s the easily accessible pokies in residential areas. These are already reducing due to the ‘sinking lid’ policy that Labour rightly introduced, so in my opinion this deal really is a win-win for NZ.
An international convention centre that will help business tourism and more jobs for both the construction and ongoing running of the centre.
from the Regulatory Impact statement, provided to, and suppressed by Ministers as ‘commercially sensitive’; 4700 more individuals likely to be harmed by the additional pokie machines, 3600 more individuals likely to be harmed by the additional gaming tables (notwithstanding families, businesses and associated communities). Along with increased instances of money-laundering.
-Bright light city gonna set our soul, gonna set our soul on fire, Gotta whole lotta money that’s ready to burn So get those stakes up higher, Viva las vegas, viva las vegas.
The issue with the Regulatory Impact statement is that it will be using data extrapolated from the number of pokies nationwide and taking an educated guess from there. As this is going to be a unique situation since the sinking lid policy was introduced, and the sinking lid policy is still going to be reducing the number of pokies elsewhere in the country this seems like a pretty wild stab in the dark to me. It is obviously still extremely valid to analyse these numbers, but to put a specific number on the hypothesis is misleading to say the least, a range with some kind of error rate would be much more useful in deciding the overall risk imo.
“Along with increased instances of money-laundering”, this is another interesting one, as part of this legislation states that any person wanting to withdraw more than $500 at one time would now have to give their personal details. Surely this would give authorities a way to track money-laundering, at least a better way than currently exists!
Money-laundering utilizes Mules ; readily available, identifiable and disposable. It’s a numbers game.
Dear Nanny, please protect us from ourselves for we have been raised to expect the state to take responsibility for our actions. Years of socialist nanny state have made us forget that part of having freedom to make choices in how we live our lives also means we need to take responsibility for the consequences of those choices. Nanny, please let us have choices but protect us from the consequences of our actions by banning things that might temp us to not live our lives according to your most sensible and necessary constraints. I know that will take choices away from some people but you know what is good for us Nanny, so don’t delay – ban stuff that you personally don’t like and stop us from being tempted to make choices you think are silly.