Easter Monday Round Up

101 comments on “Easter Monday Round Up ”

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1. johnm 1

   28 March 2016 at 11:15 am

   Easter 1916 saw the beginning of the end of the occupation by Britain. 100 years later Ireland is again an occupied serf nation! This time it owes an impossible to pay debt overseen by the West’s main Loan Shark the IMF. This predatory finance system is what michael hudson has talked and written about.

   Michael Hudson: The financial sector today is decoupled from industrialization. Its main interface with industry is to provide credit to corporate raiders. Their objective isasset stripping, They use earnings to repay financial backers (usually junk-bond holders), not to increase production. The effect is to suck income from the company and from the economy to pay financial elites.

   These elites play the role today that landlords played under feudalism. They levy interest and financial fees that are like a tax, to support what the classical economists called “unproductive activity.” That is what I mean by “parasitic.”

   The financial sector does something similar by pretending to be part of the industrial production-and-consumption economy. The National Income and Product Accounts treat the interest, profits and other revenue that Wall Street extracts – along with that of the rentier sectors it backs (real estate landlordship, natural resource extraction and monopolies) – as if these activities add to Gross Domestic Product. The reality is that they are a subtrahend, a transfer payment from the “real” economy to the Finance, Insurance and Real Estate Sector. I therefore focus on this FIRE sector as the main form of economic overhead that financialized economies have to carry.

   What this means in the most general economic terms is that finance and property ownership claims are not “factors of production.” They are external to the production process. But they extract income from the “real” economy.

   MH: The financial overhead has grown so large that paying interest, amortization and fees shrinks the economy. So we are in for years of debt deflation. That means that people have to pay so much debt service for mortgages, credit cards, student loans, bank loans and other obligations
   2KillingTheHost_Cover_rulethat they have less to spend on goods and services. So markets shrink. New investment and employment fall off, and the economy is falls into a downward spiral.

   My book therefore devotes a chapter to describing how debt deflation works. The result is a slow crash. The economy just gets poorer and poorer. More debtors default, and their property is transferred to creditors. This happens not only with homeowners who fall into arrears, but also corporations and even governments. Ireland and Greece are examples of the kind of future in store for us.

   Financialized economies tend to polarize between creditors and debtors. This is the dynamic that Thomas Piketty leaves out of his book, but his statistics show that all growth in income and nearly all growth in wealth or net worth has accrued to the One Percent, almost nothing for the 99 Percent.

   Basically, you can think of the economy as the One Percent getting the 99 Percent increasingly into debt, and siphoning off as interest payments and other financial charges whatever labor or business earns. The more a family earns, for instance, the more it can borrow to buy a nicer home in a better neighborhood – on mortgage. The rising price of housing ends up being paid to the bank – and over the course of a 30-year mortgage, the banker receives more in interest than the seller gets.

   Economic polarization is also occurring between creditor and debtor nations. This issplitting the eurozone between Germany, France and the Netherlands in the creditor camp, against Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy (the PIIGS) falling deeper into debt, unemployment and austerity – followed by emigration and capital flight.

   This domestic and international polarization will continue until there is a political fight to resist the creditors. Debtors will seek to cancel their debts. Creditors will try to collect, and the more they succeed, the more they will impoverish the economy.

   http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/23/junk-economics-and-the-parasites-of-global-finance/

   Basically ireland’s taxpayers had no legal obligation to bail out speculative bond holders and irresponsible banks but their government in it up to its neck sold them out to the IMF.

   A classic case of speculator’s wealth before the common good of people.
   • johnm 1.1

     28 March 2016 at 11:40 am

     The Bank Guarantee That Bankrupted Ireland

     The Irish have a long history of being tyrannized, exploited, and oppressed—from the forced conversion to Christianity in the Dark Ages, to slave trading of the natives in the 15th and 16th centuries, to the mid-nineteenth century “potato famine” that was really a holocaust. The British got Ireland’s food exports, while at least one million Irish died from starvation and related diseases, and another million or more emigrated.

     Today, Ireland is under a different sort of tyranny, one imposed by the banks and the troika—the EU, ECB and IMF. The oppressors have demanded austerity and more austerity, forcing the public to pick up the tab for bills incurred by profligate private bankers.

     The official unemployment rate is 13.5%—up from 5% in 2006—and this figure does not take into account the mass emigration of Ireland’s young people in search of better opportunities abroad. Job loss and a flood of foreclosures are leading to suicides. A raft of new taxes and charges has been sold as necessary to reduce the deficit, but they are simply a backdoor bailout of the banks.

     The anger among ordinary Irish people about all this has been immense. . . . There has been great pressure here for answers. . . . Why is the ordinary Irish taxpayer left carrying the can for all the debts piled up by banks, developers and speculators? How come no one has been jailed for what happened? . . . [D]espite all the public anger, there has been no public inquiry into the disaster.

     http://ellenbrown.com/2013/11/02/ireland-ground-zero-for-the-austerity-driven-asset-grab/
     • te reo putake 1.1.1

       28 March 2016 at 11:54 am

       A couple of other links that flesh out Ireland’s current problems:

       http://socialistparty.ie/2016/03/the-1916-rising-lessons-for-today/

       http://www.socialistalternative.org/2015/07/21/struggle-water-charges-winning-ireland/
       • johnm 1.1.1.1

         28 March 2016 at 1:33 pm

         Thankyou for those two links te reo! 🙂 I’ll study them a bit more later today. The second is highly relevant to the first comment I posted as Ireland is forced to privatise to pay the financial parasites who have battened on to her! 🙁
       • ropata 1.1.1.2

         28 March 2016 at 10:17 pm

         Best of luck to the downtrodden people of Ireland, I hope they kick out the bankers the same as they kicked out the Poms
2. joe90 2

   28 March 2016 at 12:02 pm

   The Rubberbandits Guide to 1916.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNM8esRbGRM
   • left for dead 2.1

     28 March 2016 at 8:26 pm

     Brilliant…thanks joe90
3. One Two 3

   28 March 2016 at 1:42 pm

   Anti vaxxers, like climate change deniers, need to know that the discussion is over

   Such serious, and complex discussions, can never and will never be ‘over’ despite the protestations of those who would see these conversations shut down
   • Richard Christie 3.1

     28 March 2016 at 3:08 pm

     * “Anti-vaxxers, like climate change deniers, need to know that the discussion is over…”
     Such serious, and complex discussions, can never and will never be ‘over’ despite the protestations of those who would see these conversations shut down

     * “Moon landing deniers, like climate change deniers, need to know that the discussion is over…”
     Such serious, and complex discussions, can never and will never be ‘over’ despite the protestations of those who would see these conversations shut down

     * “Flat Earthers, like climate change deniers, need to know that the discussion is over…”
     Such serious, and complex discussions, can never and will never be ‘over’ despite the protestations of those who would see these conversations shut down

     * “Young Earth creationists, like climate change deniers, need to know that the discussion is over…”
     Such serious, and complex discussions, can never and will never be ‘over’ despite the protestations of those who would see these conversations shut down

     * “HIV causes AIDS deniers, like climate change deniers, need to know that the discussion is over…”
     Such serious, and complex discussions, can never and will never be ‘over’ despite the protestations of those who would see these conversations shut down

     Yeah right, let’s keep up all these conversations (sarc).

     Anti vaxxers et al are welcome to continue the conversations with the voices they hear in their heads, but until they have credible evidence to support their beliefs the rational discussion is over.
   • Craig Glen Eden 3.2

     28 March 2016 at 3:37 pm

     So true ONE TWO.
     As a health professional I have personally witnessed post vaccinations reactions that are not documented. These include fevers causing convulsion and unresponsive states ( tonic clonic seizures) If you don’t record it you cant measure it, and you cant then say its safe! Its that simple. So to use TRPs climate metaphor the ice caps are melting but know one is taking any notice. That ice cap is more and more of our children are being diagnosed with neurological disorders and no one appears to be doing any research into the cause.
     For those parents who had a happy normal child who was meeting all its milestones pre vaccination who then post vaccination have a reaction which in almost every case I have come across has been dismissed by Health professionals as” it couldn’t have been anything to do with the vaccines” is simply not science.

     My advice to anyone who actually cares is this, go spend a day with a family with a child with Autism and then tell me if it was your child that you wouldn’t want to know the cause of this tragic condition. While I agree that many anti vaccine sites are full of propaganda so to are the pro vaccine sites. To not keep an open mind about the cause of Autism is anything but scientific.
     • tinfoilhat 3.2.1

       28 March 2016 at 4:33 pm

       “While I agree that many anti vaccine sites are full of propaganda so to are the pro vaccine sites.”

       Isn’t it best to consult those sites that are run by the medical experts/authorities such as MoH and WHO ?
       • Craig Glen Eden 3.2.1.1

         28 March 2016 at 5:28 pm

         Moh and Who are not above promoting crap medical science.
         Ive been a registered Health professional for 26 years and I can tell you those organisations are filled with a world medical view that is so biased you have to take a long hard look at any advice that comes from them.

         These medical experts told us Thalidomide was safe. and we all know how that worked out.
         Ten years ago at least, research came out that raised the issue of the prescribing of Paracetamol and weather it had any detrimental effects on our children’s health. The thinking (supposedly scientific evidence) was Paracetamol given at the correct does had no side effects, now we know that it suppresses a child’s immune function. Another words when a child has a fever you give them Paracetamol you are actually potentially making them more susceptible to what ever their immune system was fighting.

         Antibiotics have been charted for years to children with ear infections, now best practice is not to give antibiotics as it has no significant beneficial effect.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0010556/

         So, what was often thought to be beneficial treatment based on scientific evidence, when the benefit is measured actually falls short. This is exactly why in my comment above I am saying we need to be sure that detrimental effects ( anaphylaxis) is actually recorded. To question the status quo does not make you unscientific, but to mock those who question is certainly not beneficial to the scientific method.
         • Richard Christie 3.2.1.1.1

           28 March 2016 at 8:08 pm

           These medical experts told us Thalidomide was safe. and we all know how that worked out.

           No. Thalidomide wasn’t at all universally heralded as safe, for instance, the US FDA refused to allow its introduction to USA.

           Nor, at the time, was the use of medication during pregnancy strictly controlled, and drugs were not thoroughly tested for potential harm to the foetus. standards varied widely between nations. Moreover, it was the medical and scientific community that you dismiss that raised questions and ultimately demanded withdrawal of thalidomide from the market.

           Raising of Thalidomide as analogy to medical and scientific protocols involving vaccine safety is both glib and disingenuous. The salient difference is that modern vaccines are as thoroughly tested as current medical science allows, thalidomide wasn’t. Medical science has looked carefully for a causal link between vaccines and autism and one doesn’t exist.

           Antibiotics have been charted for years to children with ear infections, now best practice is not to give antibiotics as it has no significant beneficial effect

           Then you quote one relatively recent study. But one single study is not indicative of best practice guidelines, about which you have made claims. Have you any source for your claims in regard to best practice in this topic?.
           • One Two 3.2.1.1.1.1

             28 March 2016 at 9:09 pm

             http://www.cochrane.org/CD000219/ARI_antibiotics-for-acute-middle-ear-infection-acute-otitis-media-in-children

             Your comments are on the same level as those made in the OP, but inline with the nonsense logged under Richard Christie

             Speak with Helen Petousis-harris, she can tell you about the fraud perpetuated by the industry ‘ authorities’
           • Craig Glen Eden 3.2.1.1.1.2

             28 March 2016 at 11:16 pm

             “No. Thalidomide wasn’t at all universally heralded as safe, for instance, the US FDA refused to allow its introduction to USA.”

             I never said it was universally prescribed. But in NZ sadly it was prescribed for Hypermesis Gravidarum, fact and it resulted in terrible outcomes. Medical Drs in NZ didnt just decide on their own to suddenly start prescribing it did they. It would have had to have been an approved drug.

             At no point have I said there is a link between MMR and Autism but it cant be ruled out either. Science may prove a link in years to come, no one can absolutely rule that out.

             As for best practice there are now a number of studies that suggest a wait and see approach before charting antibiotics if infact they get charted at all.. If you are interested look them up your self here’s just one more for you. Guidlines http://www.bmj.com/content/320/7231/350?variant=full Conclusions: Seven to eight children aged 6 to 24 months with acute otitis media needed to be treated with antibiotics to improve symptomatic outcome at day four in one child. This modest effect does not justify prescription of antibiotics at the first visit, provided close surveillance can be guaranteed.
             • Richard Christie …

               28 March 2016 at 11:52 pm

               At no point have I said there is a link between MMR and Autism but it cant be ruled out either.

               Weasel words. It doesn’t work that way.

               What we know is that there is no proven causal link.
             • Psycho Milt …

               29 March 2016 at 7:55 am

               At no point have I said there is a link between MMR and Autism but it cant be ruled out either. Science may prove a link in years to come, no one can absolutely rule that out.

               I wouldn’t say there’s a link between chewing your fingernails and autism, but it can’t be ruled out either. Science may prove a link in years to come, no-one can absolutely rule that out. Repeat for infinity other possible causes.
     • Fran 3.2.2

       28 March 2016 at 4:55 pm

       Thank you for your thoughtful comment Craig. Why everyone recognises the need to question big pharma but exempts vaccines is beyond me.
       • Colonial Viper 3.2.2.1

         28 March 2016 at 9:33 pm

         For a lot of people, blind use of vaccinations has become a lazy surrogate marker for “proper” “responsible” parenting.

         In the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s “experts” and “professionals” kept dismissing parental reports that some artifical food colourings were adversely affecting the behaviour of their children.

         30-40 years later – its an accepted fact.

         After a couple of generations of kids got fucked up.
     • Sirenia 3.2.3

       28 March 2016 at 5:37 pm

       No, no, no – autism is not caused by vaccines. That has been proven by very large epidemiological studies and meta analysis of thousands of studies of autism. It is a complex interaction of genes, environment and other stuff not yet understood. There is an occasional very, very rare reaction to a vaccine, sometimes because a child is vaccinated when already sick. But the result can be brain damage, not autism. Stop repeating the nasty propaganda that autism is worse than measles, polio, whooping cough, death or any of the numerous dangerous diseases we vaccinate against.
       • Colonial Viper 3.2.3.1

         28 March 2016 at 9:37 pm

         That’s odd; you just stated that a complex interaction of genes, environment and “other stuff not yet understood” causes autism

         But somehow, you can be mysteriously certain that the hundreds of different untested combinations of vaccinations being applied to the immature neuroimmune system aren’t going to influence that!
         • Stuart Munro 3.2.3.1.1

           28 March 2016 at 10:05 pm

           It’s more a matter of the origins of the vaccine/autism link – the research has been debunked. http://aop.sagepub.com/content/45/10/1302.short
           Like the polio CHAT vaccine scare, (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6832/full/4101046a0.html) the anti-vaxers need to find fresh objections.

           Not to say that everything in the vaccine world is perfect, but for the most part 1st world countries avoid the worst of them.

           And, there being no identified current problems with most NZ vaccines doctors are understandably irritated at people moved to refuse vaccination based on rather poor understanding of these two myths.
     • Richard Christie 3.2.4

       28 March 2016 at 6:59 pm

       As a health professional I …

       Yeah, sure you are, but not a mainstream health professional, I’ll bet.

       One thing is obvious, your use of anecdote betrays that you don’t understand scientific method nor how drug safety trials are carried out.
       • Colonial Viper 3.2.4.1

         28 March 2016 at 9:41 pm

         Is it too hard to know that every single drug is toxic?

         Is it too hard to know that in NZ, doctors do not have to report incidents of adverse drug reactions?

         Is it too hard to know that many unsafe drugs have been put on to the market, drugs which then required new warnings to be added or even to be pulled out of the market altogether after reports of deaths and serious injuries piled up sufficiently to make a noticeable statistical blip?
         • McFlock 3.2.4.1.1

           28 March 2016 at 10:38 pm

           lol

           So reporting is voluntary, yet drugs are still pulled after reports of adverse reactions.

           Sounds like the reporting system works reasonably well.

           So what’s the homeopathic or chiropractic reporting framework for adverse reactions? I’m sure they set the example of best practise /sarc

           Oh, and by the way – the other side of the coin is vaccine efficacy. Well demonstrated that the ones on the register save lives.
           • Colonial Viper 3.2.4.1.1.1

             28 March 2016 at 10:43 pm

             if you’re happy to get all the vaccinations on the official list done to yourself, go for it mate, I’ll even cheer you on.
             • McFlock …

               28 March 2016 at 10:49 pm

               Yeah, but my choice doesn’t endanger other people.

               The choice to not vaccinate does. So I’ll keep opposing your dangerous delusions.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 28 March 2016 at 10:54 pm

                 Medical authoritarianism belongs in the primitive past of the 1970s and 1980s McFlock. Like you.
                 • Richard Christie …

                   28 March 2016 at 11:24 pm

                   No, polio, small pox belong in the primitive past.
                   Can you guess why?
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     28 March 2016 at 11:26 pm

                     Richard Christie, I didn’t know that small pox was on the NZ vax schedule.

                     BTW which diseases in NZ in recent times have been as devastating as small pox?

                     I’d support the use of a safe, effective vaccination for such diseases.

                     If you can point them out to me.
                   • McFlock …

                     28 March 2016 at 11:32 pm

                     BTW which diseases in NZ in recent times has been as devastating as small pox?

                     Heart disease, lung cancer, MS, dementia, a few others.

                     Basically, anything we don’t have a vaccine for. That’s an amazing coincidence, eh, but I guess correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation /sarc
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     28 March 2016 at 11:35 pm

                     McFlock, let me ask you then – which diseases has NZ suffered in recent history which have been as devastating as small pox?

                     Go back a hundred years if you like. In terms of history, that is still recent.
                   • Richard Christie …

                     28 March 2016 at 11:43 pm

                     Your reply fails to address the obvious point that vaccines work and have consigned devastating diseases to history.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     28 March 2016 at 11:53 pm

                     Richard Christie – Big Pharma has released dozens of new or revised vaccines in the last few decades.

                     Please name all the devastating diseases in the last 35 years that all these new vaccinations have consigned to history.

                     In fact, I’ll settle for you naming two.
                   • McFlock …

                     29 March 2016 at 12:23 am

                     CV I answered your question already.

                     If you want any from the last hundred years, most of the ones on the current vaccine schedule,pluss polio and smallpox, which were so successful they’re no longer on the schedule.

                     Please name all the devastating diseases in the last 35 years that all these new vaccinations have consigned to history.

                     which vaccines have been added?

                     Some, like measles, will never be eradicated because of non-human vectors or the efficacy rate being very close to the transmission rate (e.g. measles I think has both factors, from recollection). Others, like HPV will take generations to eradicate the resulting disease (asymptomatic for years/decades).

                     There might be one or two, but we wouldn’t really hear about them, because they weren’t devastating. Because they were stopped quickly.

                     How many conditions has chiropracty eradicated in the last hundred years?
                 • McFlock …

                   28 March 2016 at 11:28 pm

                   Yeah, and single-handedly stopping a cholera outbreak by getting a pump-handle removed was the same sort of medical authoritarianism.

                   What pisses me off isn’t that you might or might not be making stupid decisions about your own health.

                   It’s not even whether or not you hide behind the immunity afforded you by 80-90% of the population who are immunised these days.

                   Nope, it’s that some other moron might believe your bullshit, and then their kid dies because of your adamant repetition of tired propaganda. Because that shit definitely happens.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     28 March 2016 at 11:38 pm

                     Drug yourself and your family up all you like McFlock, but you’re not doing me any favours doing so, despite your delusions of grandeur.
                   • One Two …

                     28 March 2016 at 11:44 pm

                     As opposed to the injured or dead child whose parents believed the bullshit propaganda spread by so called authorities, ministry’s and medical professionals, stemming from fraud & corruption inside the self regulated industry & captured regulatory bodies

                     Because that shit definately happens
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     28 March 2016 at 11:49 pm

                     Medical drugs, correctly used, kill a lot of people every year. And if you count up incorrect or unintended use, the number goes up many many millions.

                     Inconvenient facts staring us in the face.
                   • McFlock …

                     29 March 2016 at 1:06 am

                     I think you’ll find that they save many, many more lives every year than your “inconvenient fact”.
                   • ropata …

                     29 March 2016 at 1:12 am

                     Thank-you McFlock. Vaccination is only the “the most successful public health intervention of all time” (Lancet), but there’s an energetic community out there who don’t give a shit about the consequences of their fearmongering for the rest of society
                   • Tim …

                     29 March 2016 at 8:31 am

                     It’s disheartening to read all this isn’t it? My partner and I are doctors – she works with kids and has seen a lot of kids die from meningococcal and pneumococcal sepsis who were unvaccinated…

                     It seems like it’s only at that stage that the parents get it.

                     Completely agree with healthy skepticism in all authorities but at some point you have to make a decision and it seems like far too many people are still making the wrong decision on vaccines.
                   • ropata …

                     29 March 2016 at 7:11 pm

                     +1 Tim, a sobering point.
               • Fran …

                 29 March 2016 at 8:36 am

                 McFlock, your choice can indeed endanger other people. Maybe it would be a good idea to read the package inserts of the vaccines before you make such blanket statements. Some vaccines can shed – and the recently vaccinated can infect other people. This is why many hospitals around the world ask you not to visit if you have been recently vaccinated. Why can’t we be honest about vaccines? No medication is all good or all bad, every medical intervention carries risks. Why can’t it be OK for people to make individual choices based on their health and circumstances?

                 I am tired of the “anti-vaxer” mantra as it stifles healthy discussion. The people pushing vaccines sound like religious zealots – we can’t watch this film or read this article as we may be influenced and no longer believe what they do. Equally, the people on the other side often sound desperate and like they are clutching at straws. I would like to see the information on both sides presented dispassionately without being subjected to the spin and vitriol that happens at the moment.
                 • One Anonymous Bloke …

                   29 March 2016 at 8:48 am

                   What makes you think there’s any “information” on the anti-vax side?

                   I note that the information on the package inserts for vaccines comes from the manufacturers. The warnings you cite come from the medical profession. Again, what “information” do the anti-vaxxers bring?

                   None. They’re still pushing Mr. Andrew Wakefield’s fraudulent lies, for goodness sake!
                   • One Two …

                     29 March 2016 at 10:03 am

                     Zealots still focused singularly on Wakefield as if that is the only angle to the conversation

                     The discussion has widened significantly, and there is no plausible avenue for those who wish to suppress the information, the game is over for the ‘consensus’

                     Truth and exposure on all sides can’t be stopped, nor should any self respecting human being wish it to be….
                   • Fran …

                     29 March 2016 at 11:50 am

                     Point made OAB. You say the only good information comes from the pro side – really?
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     29 March 2016 at 12:33 pm

                     You could totally refute my argument by simply linking to a piece of information generated by the anti-vaxxers.

                     You’re the one claiming there is some. Please may I see it?
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     29 March 2016 at 12:54 pm

                     I suppose I should add: and please, before posting some random link, do your homework properly and check their sources to avoid potential logic fail.
                   • Fran …

                     29 March 2016 at 2:01 pm

                     No, I am not claiming anything except that entrenched positions stifle good discussion. You went right ahead and proved that point with your next comments. I have no answers, just a whole lot of questions which will never be answered because we are not allowed to have the conversation in a mature and reasonable way. Perhaps if everyone stepped back at little and dialled down the hysteria we could look at all the information and make good decisions for individual kids.

                     Lastly, I have questions because of a statement made by a director general of health about vaccines some years ago where she said, “we know some children will have bad reactions, some may even die but we believe these are the sacrifices we must make for the good of society as a whole.”

                     That is pretty scary stuff.
                   • McFlock …

                     29 March 2016 at 3:00 pm

                     It’s not “scary stuff”, it’s a poorly-worded reflection of reality. Because we know that literally millions more would have died without vaccines. As best we can we identify those at risk of adverse reactions and don’t vaccinate them (allergies, or immunosuppressed for some), but nothing is 100% safe. In this case it’s just 99.99% safe, as opposed to an unvaccinated population having an infection rate 3,000 times higher, as the Swansea outbreak suggests.

                     You want a “good discussion” to justify risking children’s lives by a factor of several thousand? How do you even start that “good discussion”? NZ has on average 5 meningococcal disease and meningitis deaths a year. How many more would you allow just so morons can feel they’ve had “a good discussion”?
                 • One Anonymous Bloke …

                   29 March 2016 at 2:19 pm

                   In order for there to be a discussion, there has to be something to discuss. Some substantive point of argument.

                   However, if I want to get at the guts of it: fearmongering, manipulation, cash for speaking engagements, the poor duped movie investors, Gish gallops, and infanticide, I get accused of having an entrenched position.

                   Where does it lead? “Teach the controversy”. Yeah nah.
                 • McFlock …

                   29 March 2016 at 2:41 pm

                   actually, the shedding point is a fair call, for some vaccines.

                   But again, the risk is minute compared to the risk caused by the anti-vax side.
           • Molly 3.2.4.1.1.2

             1 April 2016 at 1:36 pm

             “Sounds like the reporting system works reasonably well.”
             When I tried to report an adverse reaction, the response from the receptionist was “they are OK now though?”. I knew that conversation was going no further, let alone to a national register of adverse reactions.

             One of my children regressed to being non-verbal after immunisation at 18 months, this persisted for several months.

             This is a noticed reaction from a parent’s point of view, but unlikely to be recognised as a legitimate adverse reaction from a medical standpoint.

             SKB also has recognised within it’s own documentation the adverse reaction of autism from the administration of a vaccine. Interesting read, and a bit depressing to read of fatal outcomes where very small children were vaccinated even though they were ill.

             I consider myself to have a healthy skepticism when it comes to claims of therapies, be they natural or pharmaceutical.

             I’m always surprised when others who show the same traits suspend all disbelief when it comes to vaccines. As if they are beyond any criticism.

             Re: medical approval bodies – having watched a friend battle through a decade’s long recovery from a medical injury from the “miracle” surgical mesh that reduced operating times, I retain the notion that the methods by which medical procedures, implants and drugs are approved is fundamentally flawed, and do not have the 100% trust that seems to be required to not be classed as an anti-vaxxer. So I guess, add me to that demographic.

             (IIRC, the study published by the Lancet related the Wakefield study of the link between those on the autism spectrum and the higher incidence of gastrointestinal disorders. It also noted that another study had taken place where there was found to be a link between the MMR vaccine and the increase in gastrointestinal disorders. It was a suggested recommendation that a study be set up to see whether the two were linked. As far as I know, he did not conduct a study on the vaccine and austism directly. However, happy to be corrected, this is going back a few years (18) for me – and as you can infer from the above, my children were vaccinated, just at different schedules).
             • McFlock …

               1 April 2016 at 5:47 pm

               That GSK report doesn’t say what you think it says.
               • Molly …

                 1 April 2016 at 7:01 pm

                 I linked to it for interest sake, not for a definitive conclusion to the discussion.

                 But, there is no discussion is there?
                 • McFlock …

                   1 April 2016 at 10:33 pm

                   Not really.
                   There’s not all that much to discuss. Nobody says modern medicine is perfect, but arguing that everybody in the medical profession down to the receptionists is deliberately or just negligently covering up a real relationship between XXXX and vaccines is a bit doubtful. And yes, the developmental issue you tried to report is indeed something that could be reported.

                   FWIW, I did link in another comment to where anyone can report adverse reactions directly if they’re not satisfied their physician is doing it.
                   • Molly …

                     2 April 2016 at 10:21 am

                     Yes, now you can report adverse reactions online which is an improvement. (I have no idea how those reports are verified – or dismissed (which is a valid part of verification). That was not available when my older children were young, or if it was – I was unaware of it. I also wanted a record on their personal medical files – I’m not sure if that would occur with a direct input into the centralised reporting system. But it would/should via your own personal GP.

                     As for the linked report, which you dismiss so cavalierly. I don’t know what you think I think of it, since I didn’t actually put a conclusion – just a link. But you also don’t mention anything about the fatalities that have resulted from very young children receiving vaccines while they are already ill.

                     I have had the experience myself of taking children to the doctor, and having the offer of “catching up on vaccinations while you are here” being offered (and refused).

                     Not good practice at all.
                   • McFlock …

                     2 April 2016 at 6:44 pm

                     SKB also has recognised within it’s own documentation the adverse reaction of autism from the administration of a vaccine.

                     For one, it doesn’t document “adverse reactions”, it documents adverse events that occurred to the patient after the vaccination. It makes no judgement about the cause of those events. Unlike your phrasing of “reaction” and “from the administration of a vaccine”.

                     You vaccinate x-hundred thousand kids, some of them will develop autism, or a heart condition. But then the same number of kids would have autism or heart conditions even if they weren’t vaccinated. Because vaccines don’t cause autism. But we still count everything, and then do math to see whether an unexpected adverse event really does occur at a higher rate in people who had treatment Y than those who did not have that treatment.

                     But you also don’t mention anything about the fatalities that have resulted from very young children receiving vaccines while they are already ill.

                     Already ill with what? Mildly unwell is not an issue. High fever or immunosuppressed should get a complaint against the doctor and needs an investigation, because it’s already a documented contraindication.
       • Craig Glen Eden 3.2.4.2

         28 March 2016 at 10:13 pm

         Richard Christie I have held 2 health registrations both mainstream in those 26 years. So youve bet wrong. I have worked throughout our public and private Health care system.

         So if you want to make a point then please try and stick to at least some solid logical rebuttal to my comments. However its pretty hard to rebut what I have seen and experienced.

         Evidence based medicine aye its such a bastard when people actually want to measure health outcomes. If you dont measure anaphylaxis reactions you cant claim its safe.
         • McFlock 3.2.4.2.1

           28 March 2016 at 10:47 pm

           But we do measure anaphylaxis hospital admissions and deaths.

           That’s why the vaccine consent forms I sign every year ask about allergies.
           Maybe the medical staff aren’t reporting the reactions you allege in order to cover up their negligence in vaccinating people with clear contraindications? Did you report any of these incidents yourself? Did you advise any of the patients how to report the reaction themselves?

           And we also measure the admissions and deaths for the conditions the vaccines are supposed to work against.
         • Richard Christie 3.2.4.2.2

           28 March 2016 at 11:32 pm

           So if you want to make a point then please try and stick to at least some solid logical rebuttal to my comments. .

           ok, ok, I bet wrong, I should just have pointed out the logical fallacy of your (anonymous) appeal to personal authority.

           I don’t care how long you’ve worked in medicine or if you have a string of letters after your name, you tried to put your authority above the scientific and medical mainsteam’s consensus.

           Scientific and medical consensus or anonymous person claiming industry experience? Um, I’ll get back to you on that.
4. One Two 4

   28 March 2016 at 2:08 pm

   Second bit of good news, the town of Palmyra has been liberated from the clutches of ISIS. The bad news is that it’s now been taken over by the Syrian army

   The state military army of Syria has taken back (from foreign invading forces) control of a town inside borders they are duty bound to defend and protect

   The rout of the ISIS forces has been helped by strategic bombing from the Russian Air Force, who still haven’t actually gone away, despite running out of hospitals to bomb

   No mention of the American support and arms supply for ISIS ?

   More an exposure into prejudiced burdened views, than an Easter Monday Roundup
   • te reo putake 4.1

     28 March 2016 at 2:57 pm

     Sorry for not including your fantasy. Maybe in the Xmas round up?
   • fender 4.2

     28 March 2016 at 5:03 pm

     Yeah Basher al Assad and his father have a long history of protecting people :rolleyes:
   • Colonial Viper 4.3

     28 March 2016 at 9:43 pm

     Assad’s Syrian Arab Army liberates ancient city of Palmyra from ISIS

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GcJ94Mo068
     • Psycho Milt 4.3.1

       29 March 2016 at 8:04 am

       Assad’s Syrian Arab Army liberates ancient city of Palmyra from ISIS

       Well, Assad and his imperial overlords recapture a city Assad lost to foreigners during an armed uprising against his murderous dictatorship, at least. But it doesn’t surprise me that this fits your definition of “liberated.”
5. swordfish 5

   28 March 2016 at 3:46 pm

   Post looks like a bit of a mischievous attempt to bait CV. The grudge continues, TRP ?

   On the Easter Rising, TRP: ‘One hundred years ago, Irish citizens attempted to throw off the shackles of British Imperialism. They didn’t succeed immediately … “

   A pretty small number of Irish citizens and not too surprising that they initially failed to make headway … if the aim was to seize power through a military coup d’etat then the methods and strategy were pretty irrational to say the least. Taking St Stephen’s Green rather than Dublin Castle, taking the Post Office and a bakery rather than City Hall or the arsenal or army barracks. Which I guess is why one historian has called it: “a unique example of insurrectionary abstract art”.

   There’s an argument that the true objective was to enact a highly symbolic blood sacrifice by a small cadre in order to inspire much larger numbers in their wake. Long-term resonance rather than an immediate resolution. Some historians have gone as far as suggesting that by locating themselves in the main shopping area, the rebels ensured significant civilian losses (about half of the 500 dead) and that this was a deliberate facet of the republican strategy – to resuscitate popular support for the more militant section of the nationalist programme.

   (Which could well be true, although it does sound a little like Israel’s attempts to deflect blame after yet another of its regular massacres)

   TRP: The British Regime acted brutally to suppress the nascent Irish liberation movement, murdering many of the leaders in the weeks afterwards.”

   Yeah and arguably it was more this sheer British vindictiveness – rather than the brief uprising per se – that played the key role in resurrecting a quiescent Irish nationalism. And the executions (often carried out very quickly, straight after a brief court martial) were at times quite arbitrary – including the execution of quite distant relatives of rebel leaders, people who weren’t actually involved in the rebellion in any way.

   Things hadn’t necessarily been looking all that promising for the Nationalists.
   The outbreak of WWI, for instance, caused a major split in the (nationalist) Irish Volunteers, with 200,000 Irishmen joining the British Army. And while most Irish people either actively or tacitly supported Home Rule, the obvious enthusiasm that greeted the war effort in Ireland suggested parts of the Country remained quite ambivalent about British rule, or at least fairly nonchalant about the struggle for Independence. Even quite a few of those vehemently opposed to fighting Britain’s war were still against open rebellion or any sort of militancy.

   So it looked like the various Nationalist groups were going to become increasingly marginalised as WWI took its course. The argument of some historians is that the movement therefore responded by focussing on acts that were both imaginative and radical. A lot of Symbolism, mythology, spectacle and a certain amount of bloodshed. The Easter Rising being the supreme example.

   But it was that cold-blooded British response – executions, deportation of thousands of men without trial (and later, of course, the notorious Black and Tans) that pretty soon had authorities reporting this burgeoning, intensifying popular sympathy for rebellion and militant nationalism. People who had been quite neutral or disinterested were quickly transformed.

   James Connolly

   Great Socialist. Shot two days after Asquith sent instructions to Dublin that no further executions were to take place !!!
   • te reo putake 5.1

     28 March 2016 at 4:42 pm

     Re: baiting. Not really intending to bait anyone, swordfish, but the news that De Niro had come to his senses did make me wonder what the anti-science segment of the commentariat thought about it. So, that’s why I included it. It’s a pretty big slap down for the scammer Wakefield.

     Great insights into Irish history. And you’ve reminded me that I really should get the guitar out and have a crack at Come out ye Black and Tans to commemorate the weekend 😉
   • Colonial Viper 5.2

     28 March 2016 at 9:46 pm

     swordfish – heh! 🙂

     Authoritarians always think they know best.
6. RedLogix 6

   28 March 2016 at 4:12 pm

   Worth a read:

   http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/futuretense/has-rampant-capitalism-hijacked-the-promise-of-the-digital-age/7266210
7. Muttonbird 7

   28 March 2016 at 8:26 pm

   Second bit of good news, the town of Palmyra has been liberated from the clutches of ISIS. The bad news is that it’s now been taken over by the Syrian army.

   -Te Reo Putake

   Which other army would you prefer Palmyra to be taken over by? When I last checked Palmyra is in Syria.
   • te reo putake 7.1

     28 March 2016 at 8:46 pm

     I’d prefer it was taken over by the locals, not anyone’s army.
     • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

       28 March 2016 at 9:47 pm

       Never picked you as an anti-central government anarchist mate. Good on ya!
8. dv 8

   28 March 2016 at 9:21 pm

   The remaining few WWII surviving soldiers are further denied dignity by the present government refusing funding for those able to still travel to attend the 2016 ANZAC memorial service at Gallipoli. Contrast with $26M on a flop flag ‘debate’……

   Says a lot about the morality of the Natz
9. Colonial Viper 9

   28 March 2016 at 9:26 pm

   It’s good that the flaky film has been dropped, but sad that it will probably benefit financially from the exposure in the news. Anti vaxxers, like climate change deniers, need to know that the discussion is over.

   big pharma likes your lines.
   • ropata 9.1

     28 March 2016 at 10:06 pm

     There’s a line between post modern critique & anti science kookery, and you’ve crossed it I’m afraid
     • Colonial Viper 9.1.1

       28 March 2016 at 10:12 pm

       adopted pro-corporate thinking and you don’t even realise it.
       • ropata 9.1.1.1

         29 March 2016 at 1:18 am

         Ha, funny how that works. I’m not pro-corporations, I am pro-public health and education, and anti dangerous misinformation.
         • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1.1

           29 March 2016 at 1:48 am

           +1
     • weka 9.1.2

       28 March 2016 at 10:37 pm

       TRP crossed a line too. Forcing medical treatment on people has massive ethical implications for society. To suggest that the debate is over signals that people with concerns should shut up and take their medicine (I don’t believe that vaccines cause autism btw, and I think that there are many situations where vaccination is important so I don’t consider myself to be an anti-vaxxer). I can’t be bothered with another long argument about vaccination that pushes people into false binaries, but I do take exception to inflammatory statements from people that are supposed to be progressive.

       I also think the comparison with climate change is misleading and is intellectually lazy.

       I’ve decided that the most interesting thing about the whole vaccination debate is how it brings out the authoritarian in so many people and how some on the left support what are basically proto-fascist lines. That and how it makes so many scienceheads illogical.
       • ropata 9.1.2.1

         28 March 2016 at 10:49 pm

         The ethical implications for society is that scaremongering rubbish by ill informed hysterical parents should not supersede the well being of the community.

         http://thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2815%2900072-9/fulltext

         At this stage in the fight against vaccine-preventable diseases, responsible governments should not allow such efforts to go wasted on the altar of freedom of choice. Although vaccination programmes should not take their relevance for granted, legal frameworks placing the health of the community above the individual choice should be established or clarified. Just as parents cannot choose to not educate their children for whatever reason, they should not be given the choice to opt-out their children from vaccination. The most successful public health intervention of all time should be more vocal than anti-vaxxers.
         • weka 9.1.2.1.1

           28 March 2016 at 11:55 pm

           Are you saying you support enforced compulsory vaccination?

           In NZ we have enough coverage generally for vaccination to provide herd immunity. The small numbers of people who choose not to vaccinate isn’t a big issue. Forcing them crosses ethical boundaries that sets a new line in what the govt can force people to do. You lose all moral ground when you ignore these ethics.
           • ropata 9.1.2.1.1.1

             29 March 2016 at 12:41 am

             What happens when a kid gets an infection but the parents refuse to allow treatment? Is the state “forcing” its ethics on the family. Damn right it is, because there are kids lives at stake.
           • Psycho Milt 9.1.2.1.1.2

             29 March 2016 at 8:07 am

             Are you saying you support enforced compulsory vaccination?

             What was that about pushing people into false binaries?
     • One Two 9.1.3

       28 March 2016 at 10:38 pm

       Anti science can be witnessed by having a film showing shutdown without having seen it

       What threat could the film possibly be if the ‘vaccine science is settled’ ?

       What happens next is that the publicity created will ensure the film content reaches an even wider audience than the festival ever could have, thus exposing the ‘science’ to greater levels of scrutiny and raising public awareness

       The fraud genie is out of the bottle, its staying out and the narrative can no longer be controlled

       This event is a landmark
       • ropata 9.1.3.1

         28 March 2016 at 10:51 pm

         The film isn’t a threat, but purveying ignorance is irresponsible at best and dangerous for the health of society. This is the kind of mind numbing anti science argument used by young earth creationists and leads to an ill informed populace voting Trump
         • One Two 9.1.3.1.1

           28 March 2016 at 11:15 pm

           Ropata, your comments are repeatedly a confused mess and make no sense

           The health of society as you put it, explicitly depends on robust and transparent examination, of every aspect of ‘the science’ which can be tabled

           Anything less than that is censorship at best, murder at worst
           • ropata 9.1.3.1.1.1

             29 March 2016 at 12:39 am

             You didn’t read the quote in my last comment. Vaccination has been proven effective the world over, but in NZ we have the crazy situation where there is a risk of entirely preventable diseases breaking out again because there is an increasing LACK of immunity.
       • DoublePlusGood 9.1.3.2

         28 March 2016 at 11:15 pm

         The threat it presents is in the public perception, which is frequently not a place where much attention is paid to whether there is scientific consensus on an issue. As a result, science on an issue can basically prove through overwhelming evidence that something is not harmful, but a film like this can spark fears in the populace not based on evidence. This happens in a wide range of fields, and can lead to problems from changes in public behaviour, and even some really stupid lawmaking to court public opinion.
         When it comes to vaccines, such films threaten public health, not the soundness of scientific consensus.
         • One Two 9.1.3.2.1

           28 March 2016 at 11:23 pm

           “Such films threaten public health, not the soundess of scientific consensus”

           Confused, and logically flawed rationale

           Good luck qualifying your statement!
           • Draco T Bastard 9.1.3.2.1.1

             29 March 2016 at 1:59 am

             How about you backing up yours. Just show us where the public, with no information, no idea as to what to look for nor what information is available made a good scientific criticism.
         • ropata 9.1.3.2.2

           29 March 2016 at 1:00 am

           Exactly so DPG. People lap this stuff up and don’t have the critical capacity or the background needed to assess the claims rationally

           http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2015/02/01/anti-vaccine-movement-causes-worst-measles-epidemic-in-20-years/#63a24b887ef9

           http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-vaccination_movement

           https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzxr9FeZf1g
           • te reo putake 9.1.3.2.2.1

             29 March 2016 at 12:57 pm

             Excellent vid, ropata! Non judgemental and fact based. Superb stuff.
           • One Two 9.1.3.2.2.2

             29 March 2016 at 2:06 pm

             Ropata, do you have the awareness to critically evaluate, or have ‘ the background’ to “lap up” the information you onboard?

             Thats rhetorical because you don’t!

             Perhaps you can disprove it by explaining the relationship between the human species, microbes, infectious disease, immune system, and how they might synergize to create a healthy human organism , with lifelong immunity against multiple other infectious diseases

             Too much for you. Here is an easier one.

             Describe all components of the human immune system , how they interract and the stages/levels of protection they individually, and collectively give the host

             Provide your respose for:

             Fetus
             New born
             Infant
             Adolescent
             Adult

             Easier still:

             Can you provide evidence of a lifetime warranty that toxic chemicals administered directly into the blood stream of human beings, will not cause future health problems to the host?

             Easiest of all:

             What percentage of testing is carried out by the manufacturers themselves. Essentially creating self certification in the industry?

             [Or you could just watch the video ropata helpfully provided. Sneering requests for other people to do your homework for you aren’t well regarded around here One Two, so if you have actual evidence of a substantial nature that contradicts the known facts around vaccination, by all means put it up yourself. TRP]
       • Draco T Bastard 9.1.3.3

         29 March 2016 at 1:55 am

         What happens next is that the publicity created will ensure the film content reaches an even wider audience than the festival ever could have, thus exposing the ‘science’ to greater levels of scrutiny and raising public awareness

         Greater scrutiny by people who have NFI WTF they’re talking about? Yeah, not what the community wants or needs.

         We need credible scientists looking at the data. That’s what peer review is for and, in general, it works pretty well.
10. tinfoilhat 10

    29 March 2016 at 2:15 pm

    Goodness me I made an innocuous and rather self evident comment about 24 hours ago on this thread and there seems to have been yet another full blown argument with everyone talking over the top of everyone else – this blog really is getting more unfriendly and incoherent as time goes by.
    • te reo putake 10.1

      29 March 2016 at 2:46 pm

      That’s often the nature of blogs. The discussions can head in all sorts of unexpected directions and sometimes what seems innocuous can lead to some pretty sharp debates. Our readership and commenting figures suggest TS is regarded as a pretty coherent site by thousands of Kiwis. Friendly may be another matter 😉
11. joe90 11

    29 March 2016 at 3:15 pm

    For those interested.

    Irish Foreign Minister Charlie Flanagan announced last week that the Irish government has provided a gift to the world to mark the Easter Rising’s centenary: a free downloadable e-copy of the Royal Irish Academy’s book “1916 Portraits and Lives”.

    The book, a winner of the Best Use of Illustration in Design at the 2015 Irish Design Awards, is a collection of 42 short biographies, accompanied by original illustrations by artist David Rooney, of the men and women whose lives helped to shape or were touched by the events of the Easter Rising.

    It is available to download until March 31 at http://www.dfa.ie and http://www.ireland.ie/portraits.

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/irishvoice/Irish-government-launches-free-1916-Easter-Rising-e-book.html

    Direct download link below –

    http://assets.ria.ie/publications/1916-portraits-and-lives/1916-portraits-and-lives-complete-book/1916-portraits-and-lives-complete-book.epub
12. Ross 12

    29 March 2016 at 8:43 pm

    Quite a lot of hate when it comes to anti-vaccination. I prefer to look at the rather expensive facts.

    “On September 23, 2014, an Italian court in Milan award compensation to a boy for vaccine-induced autism. A childhood vaccine against six childhood diseases caused the boy’s permanent autism and brain damage. While the Italian press has devoted considerable attention to this decision and its public health implications, the U.S. press has been silent. … As in many other developed countries, government, not industry, compensates families in the event of vaccine injury.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-media-blackout-italian-courts-rule-vaccines-cause-autism/5430940

    “The first (US) court award in a vaccine-autism claim is a big one. CBS News has learned the family of Hannah Poling will receive more than $1.5 million dollars for her life care; lost earnings; and pain and suffering for the first year alone. In addition to the first year, the family will receive more than $500,000 per year to pay for Hannah’s care. Those familiar with the case believe the compensation could easily amount to $20 million over the child’s lifetime.”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

    “The federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, better known as ‘vaccine court’, has just awarded millions of dollars to two children with autism for “pain and suffering” and lifelong care of their injuries, which together could cost tens of millions of dollars. …. In 2009, Ryan’s case was transferred to vaccine court’s Autism Omnibus Proceedings, according to the docket. A year-and-a-half later, the government conceded that MMR vaccine had indeed caused Ryan’s encephalopathy.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/post2468343_b_2468343.html

    “A mother whose son suffered severe brain damage after he was given the controversial MMR vaccine as a baby has been awarded £90,000 compensation. … The Department of Health had always denied that the jab was the cause of Robert’s disability. But now, in a judgment which will give hope to hundreds of other parents whose children have been severely affected by routine vaccinations, a medical assessment panel consisting of two doctors and a barrister has concluded that MMR was to blame.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1307095/Family-win-18-year-fight-MMR-damage-son–90-000-payout-concerns-vaccine-surfaced.html
13. Ross 13

    29 March 2016 at 8:58 pm

    Then there’s the massively expensive experiment called the MeNZB vaccine which cost taxpayers here more than $200 million, and maybe prevented – at best – one death. Even Treasury said the vaccine didn’t stack up in terms of costs/benefits, and the same vaccine had been dropped by Norway because it had been shown to be ineffective. After the Ministry of Health disseminated so much false and misleading information about MeNZB, it would be difficult for officials to ever be able to restore their credibility.

    A snippet from the second link:

    “…documents received under the Official Information Act reveal that while the country has been sold on the need for three vaccinations to bring any immune response up to a suitable level, the Ministry’s own unpublished cost benefit analysis was based on five doses.

    Referred to by the Minister as an, ‘independent economic evaluation of the anticipated economic benefits [of the vaccine]” the analysis was undertaken by the faculty that stood to gain many millions of dollars of research funding from Cabinet approval of the vaccination program. The authors included senior meningococcal vaccine researchers and their colleagues at Auckland University. Puzzlingly, neither the report [nor the Minister] disclosed this important fact to Cabinet; the report falsely declared, “Competing Interests: None.”

    Another cost benefit analysis by Treasury in 2001 showed that the cost-to-benefit ratios were seven times those normally used by Pharmac to approve funding of prescription medicines and that was before the significant declines in disease and deaths that have occurred naturally.

    An Honours student at Canterbury University also did a cost benefit analysis. Whilst presented at the New Zealand Association of Economists conference in Wellington in June 2004, the paper has not been posted on the website as is usual practice but has been ‘temporarily withdrawn’ from public purview. This is considered unusual as the Audit Office says the paper is in public domain once presented. The paper is said to have revealed that the MeNZB™ vaccination program did not stack up economically and, like the Auckland District Health Board, questioned the program’s rationale. A university source has revealed that the paper was removed to protect the interests of the student after the University received a threatening letter ‘advising against publication.’ We are aware of the student’s name and have been asked not to make it public as to do so could jeopardize their career options. We are also informed that the student was approached by officials from other government departments and congratulated for raising questions they were not allowed to.”

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0610/S00257.htm
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0502/S00064.htm
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0607/S00284.htm
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0505/S00352.htm
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0611/S00403.htm

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