web analytics

Fags bad, piss good

Written By: - Date published: 5:54 pm, April 29th, 2010 - 11 comments
Categories: drugs, national/act government, tax - Tags: , , , , ,

Here’s a great interview by RNZ’s Kathryn Ryan with Professor Doug Sellman, Director of the National Addiction Centre, on Government’s bizarre inconsistency in raising the price of fags to discourage consumption while not raising the price of alcohol – despite its alleged interest in addressing alcohol abuse. Sellman also has some interesting things to say about how alcohol industry lobbyists always enjoy an open door to ministers’ offices while those who try to lobby against the alcohol industry are turned away. Gosh, I wonder why that is?

Update: I also recommend you look at the 60 Minutes link provided below by MollyByGolly, very telling and rather incriminating.

11 comments on “Fags bad, piss good ”

  1. tsmithfield 1

    I don’t see the inconsistency.

    There is a clear distinction between alcohol and cigarettes.

    Cigarettes are bad regardless of how small the quantity they are used in. Alcohol is harmless in small quantities, and may even have health benefits. For instance, one of my workers had a heart attack recently, and the heart specialist recommended regularly drinking a small amount of alcoholic drink.

    Due to the fact there is this clear difference between alcohol and cigarettes, it is not accurate to claim the government is being inconsistent with its treatment of the two as the two are different in principle.

    • Yeah that little canard is immaterial to the argument – did you actually listen to the interview ts, or are you just sticking to National’s PR releases?
      I would sugest that as the Director of the National Addiction Centre, Professor Sellman has a slightly more expert view.

      • tsmithfield 1.1.1

        I actually put a very old argument that predates what National said on the news. However, its an argument that needed to be put. I thought you would have anticipated it and covered it in your article, actually.

        Anyway, yes I did listen to the interview. I also have good awareness of the effects of alcohol from my family backgroud. My mother’s first husband died of alcoholism and my mother and my older half brother and half sister endured quite a lot of alcohol induced violence in that relationship. My older half brother became an alcoholic and went through Queen Mary Hospital in Hamner three times before finally getting off the habit. So, I do know a little bit about the problem.

        However, having said that, I still think you are making an argument of false equivalence between cigarettes and alcohol. There is fairly strong evidence, although not universally agreed on, that the French paradox, for instance, shows that moderate alcohol consumption can have health benefits in terms of reduced coronary problems. I have also seen research that demonstrates why this might be the case. The research I have seen demonstrated that alcohol relaxes the artery walls around the heart, thus reducing the likelihood of a coronary incident. Also, as I mentioned before, my employee was advised to have a small amount of alcohol consumption after a heart operation.

        By increasing the price I have no doubt there will be a small reduction in consumption across the board, with emphasis on the word small. However any benefits might be offset by higher costs in coronary care etc. Also, it is price increases seem a fairly blunt instrument that target not only alcohol abusers but also the many people who drink responsibly, which seems hardly fair. On the other hand, my own experience is that people with major alcohol problems are extremely devious and resourceful in getting alcohol one way or another. Also, price increases might drive some people to even more harmful substances such as metholated spirits.

        Having said all this, it is clear there are major problems associated with alcohol. Therefore I think a better approach would involve:

        1. Concerted effort to change the drinking culture in NZ through education and publicity.
        2. More access to treatment for people with alcohol problems. On that score, Labour closing Queen Mary Hospital was a disgrace.
        3. Restricted access to alcohol. Perhaps maximum amounts being set for each purchase for example might have a similar effect to a price increase without penalizing those who drink responsibly.

        • the sprout

          My condolences for the manifold ills you and your family have suffered through alcohol and thank you for your considered response. I can’t disagree with the points you list above.

          Sellman’s point however is pretty simple.

          Alcohol consumption is very sensitive to price, more so than nicotine (because of the relative inelasticity of demand for nicotine). Those most in need of targetting for alcohol reduction are youth and high volume consumers – both are disproportionately sensitive to price increases when compared to moderate consumers. Raising alcohol prices also has the benefit of encouraging moderate drinkers to stay moderate and not drift into becoming high consumers.

          If you want to reduce consumption in those two problem groups, why not also include pricing as a mechanism?

          And why not introduce more sophisticated means of reducing tobacco consumption, such as those proposed for alcohol, rather than just hiking up the tax?

          That to me seems inconsistent.

          • tsmithfield

            I’m not sure if nicotine per se is universally a harmful substance. After all, there are nicotine patches etc. I think it is ingesting nicotine through the lungs along with other multitudes of chemicals that causes the problems.

            I don’t actually disagree that strongly with raising prices as I know something needs to be done about the problems caused by alcohol. However, my preference would be for some of the methods I mentioned above for the reasons I have stated.

            I do think, however, that if the government is not going to increase prices then they need to adopt other methods that will reduce the problems caused by alcohol. It is not sufficient just to shelve the whole report.

  2. :>the sprout -Cheers.

    I have just listened to this interview. It is so nice to hear some intelligence.
    Actually refreshing.

  3. MollyByGolly 3

    Read this:


    About Associate Health Minister Peter Dunne and his refusal to meet with Sellman and fellow medical experts on the problems of alcohol abuse.

    Why? (1) Dunne already knows their views and (2) some of the medical experts themselves drink so, according to Dunne, they are hypocrites with nothing credible to contribute to the issue.

    However, Dunne is happy to meet with alcohol industry reps despite their views being predictable…

    And here’s the 60 Minutes story:

  4. Lizzy 4

    Why would pollies want to met with fanatics – he’s quite right that Sellman is elevating himself if he feels ENTITLED to a meeting. He’s had more than his fair hearing and influenced more fools in his lecture tours than any fanatic is entitled to, as shown in the hysterical content of the Palmer Law Commission report. Which equates feeling any subjective effects of alcohol within the last year eg dizzyness, with having a problem of “abuse” of alcohol or heavy drinking.

    Um excuse me, but if you don’t feel psychoactive effects from an item that is an intoxicant then you are from what planet. And if it is such a problem to feel some mental shift and truly an unwanted effect then you must be very stupid to have bought alcohol instead of H2go – either that or booze cooks made a grave mistake when first they elected to include alcohol molecules in alcohol – so inconsiderate to the buyers who desire a clean sober head.

    Strong suspicions Palmer and Sellman belong to some secret society of church wowsers with Temperance league funds swirling around them to a point their vertigo is such no piss is needed.

  5. SPC 5

    Politically raising the price to reduce consumption – while promoting the line that people would be compensated for their higher GST cost was not a good look.

    The concept that younger people, beneficiaries, the low waged and many on Super can be excluded from participation by pricing them out of the market is not a new one. The same applies to affording Sky and fast broadband.

    The target should be drunkenness – that means criminalising being drunk (defined by a blood alcohol level), the same way we do drink driving. It’s not drinking or driving that are the problem its getting drunk and its driving after drinking. So target the problem.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Government and horticulture sector target $12b in exports by 2035
    A new Government and industry strategy launched today has its sights on growing the value of New Zealand’s horticultural production to $12 billion by 2035, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor said. “Our food and fibre exports are vital to New Zealand’s economic security. We’re focussed on long-term strategies that build on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 hour ago
  • Cost of living support extended for families and businesses
    25 cents per litre petrol excise duty cut extended to 30 June 2023 – reducing an average 60 litre tank of petrol by $17.25 Road User Charge discount will be re-introduced and continue through until 30 June Half price public transport fares extended to the end of June 2023 saving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • More Kiwis in work as rising wages match inflation
    The strong economy has attracted more people into the workforce, with a record number of New Zealanders in paid work and wages rising to help with cost of living pressures. “The Government’s economic plan is delivering on more better-paid jobs, growing wages and creating more opportunities for more New Zealanders,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Government boosts fund for Auckland flooding
    The Government is providing a further $1 million to the Mayoral Relief Fund to help communities in Auckland following flooding, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced today. “Cabinet today agreed that, given the severity of the event, a further $1 million contribution be made. Cabinet wishes to be proactive ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • New Cabinet focused on bread and butter issues
    The new Cabinet will be focused on core bread and butter issues like the cost of living, education, health, housing and keeping communities and businesses safe, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has announced. “We need a greater focus on what’s in front of New Zealanders right now. The new Cabinet line ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Prime Minister to meet with PM Albanese
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins will travel to Canberra next week for an in person meeting with Australian Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. “The trans-Tasman relationship is New Zealand’s closest and most important, and it was crucial to me that my first overseas trip as Prime Minister was to Australia,” Chris Hipkins ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government makes first payment to Auckland Flooding fund
    The Government is providing establishment funding of $100,000 to the Mayoral Relief Fund to help communities in Auckland following flooding, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced. “We moved quickly to make available this funding to support Aucklanders while the full extent of the damage is being assessed,” Kieran McAnulty ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government steps up to assist Auckland during flooding
    As the Mayor of Auckland has announced a state of emergency, the Government, through NEMA, is able to step up support for those affected by flooding in Auckland. “I’d urge people to follow the advice of authorities and check Auckland Emergency Management for the latest information. As always, the Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Poroporoaki: Titewhai Te Huia Hinewhare Harawira
    Ka papā te whatitiri, Hikohiko ana te uira, wāhi rua mai ana rā runga mai o Huruiki maunga Kua hinga te māreikura o te Nota, a Titewhai Harawira Nā reira, e te kahurangi, takoto, e moe Ka mōwai koa a Whakapara, kua uhia te Tai Tokerau e te kapua pōuri ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Enhanced Task Force Green Approved following Cyclone Hale
    Carmel Sepuloni, Minister for Social Development and Employment, has activated Enhanced Taskforce Green (ETFG) in response to flooding and damaged caused by Cyclone Hale in the Tairāwhiti region. Up to $500,000 will be made available to employ job seekers to support the clean-up. We are still investigating whether other parts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • General Election to be held on 14 October 2023
    The 2023 General Election will be held on Saturday 14 October 2023, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. “Announcing the election date early in the year provides New Zealanders with certainty and has become the practice of this Government and the previous one, and I believe is best practice,” Jacinda ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announces resignation
    Jacinda Ardern has announced she will step down as Prime Minister and Leader of the Labour Party. Her resignation will take effect on the appointment of a new Prime Minister. A caucus vote to elect a new Party Leader will occur in 3 days’ time on Sunday the 22nd of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Trade and Agriculture Minister to attend World Economic Forum and Global Forum for Food and Agricult...
    The Government is maintaining its strong trade focus in 2023 with Trade and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor visiting Europe this week to discuss the role of agricultural trade in climate change and food security, WTO reform and New Zealand agricultural innovation. Damien O’Connor will travel tomorrow to Switzerland to attend the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government funding relief for flood-affected Wairarapa farmers and growers
    The Government has extended its medium-scale classification of Cyclone Hale to the Wairarapa after assessing storm damage to the eastern coastline of the region. “We’re making up to $80,000 available to the East Coast Rural Support Trust to help farmers and growers recover from the significant damage in the region,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government provides support to flooded Tairāwhiti communities
    The Government is making an initial contribution of $150,000 to the Mayoral Relief Fund to help communities in Tairāwhiti following ex-Tropical Cyclone Hale, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced. “While Cyclone Hale has caused widespread heavy rain, flooding and high winds across many parts of the North Island, Tairāwhiti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Government support for flood-affected Gisborne Tairāwhiti farmers and growers
    Rural Communities Minister Damien O’Connor has classified this week’s Cyclone Hale that caused significant flood damage across the Tairāwhiti/Gisborne District as a medium-scale adverse event, unlocking Government support for farmers and growers. “We’re making up to $100,000 available to help coordinate efforts as farmers and growers recover from the heavy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago