FFS

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1. just saying 1

   8 August 2011 at 9:50 pm

   With King!. That’s it – Labour is definitely trying to fail, they couldn’t make such appalling decisions and fuck-up so consistently and so spectacularly by accident. it’s just not possible is it?

   King – JFC.
   • Deadly_NZ 1.1

     9 August 2011 at 6:25 pm

     Mallard need to be gone by yesterdays lunchtime. He is now a liability for the labour party.
     • millsy 1.1.1

       9 August 2011 at 7:15 pm

       …and a lot more should follow him.
2. rosy 2

   8 August 2011 at 9:55 pm

   Surely they’ve already seen what happens when you reward long an faithful service with the top job. A leadership that captures the imagination of the public and press is the only way Labour can come back from this debacle yet they’re going to do it again? FFS all right.
3. Deano 3

   8 August 2011 at 10:10 pm

   I hope that people and journos in particular realise that one MP playing silly buggers for his own personal reasons does not represent the Labour Party as a whole.
   • Anne 3.1

     8 August 2011 at 10:18 pm

     Good response Deano. I wasn’t impressed with Mallard’s ‘joke’ post either, but don’t you think there’s a bit of over-reaction going on? I do.

     I’ve heard rumours that there will be a Mallard/King deputy/leader ticket bid shortly after the election

     Bet you that’s a Nact inspired crap rumour. The dirty tricks brigade was expected to be up and running around now. It won’t be the only rumour either.
   • IrishBill 3.2

     8 August 2011 at 10:18 pm

     He’s running the Labour Party’s election campaign. Doesn’t that strike you as the party quite firmly endorsing his judgement and values?
     • Anne 3.2.1

       8 August 2011 at 10:34 pm

       Maybe I.B. But I think this post was a response to something similar Slater did to Labour and Goff not so long ago. I’m sure the message from his colleagues will be sufficiently negative to ensure it won’t happen again. If it does he’ll be relieved of his position.
       • Lanthanide 3.2.1.1

         9 August 2011 at 12:37 am

         Slater regularly does these stupid “txts from NYC” jobbies, supposedly HC giving advise to Goff.
         • Chris 3.2.1.1.1

           9 August 2011 at 8:55 am

           Thats the worst thing – why would he copy an unoriginal and unfunny thing from Slater
           • SHG 3.2.1.1.1.1

             9 August 2011 at 9:23 am

             Whaleoil’s thing was a play on the widely-held belief that Helen Clark is a control freak and compulsive text-messager. Thus text messages from Helen Clark in New York attempting to manipulate the Labour Party in NZ are believable enough to be funny. And Whale got the tone and in-jokes pretty well.

             Mallard’s attempt was just woeful. And it’s what, fifty-something days to the election! Mallard’s the campaign manager! Aren’t there other things he should be doing? Or has he just given up?
             • Chris …

               9 August 2011 at 10:12 am

               Maybe it was just me but I always thought they were pretty lame, nowhere near as lame as mallards though
     • Deano 3.2.2

       8 August 2011 at 10:41 pm

       I think it’s a sign of the leadership making a mistake and not getting him under control. I don’t think it’s a stamp of approval on everything he does from the party, which is bigger than one man, or even the leadership.

       It’s a funny kind of strategy if he is trying to aid a defeat and take over. Everything he is doing is necessarily in public. Who would back a saboteur? Unless he’s counting on a weak, depleted caucus not having the will to oppose him.
       • Anne 3.2.2.1

         8 August 2011 at 11:17 pm

         Mallard’s on recent record as counting himself out of any future leadership bid. He said something to the effect that… he isn’t leadership material. He didn’t have the right temperament for the job. Yes. We know that. 🙂

         That’s why I pick the rumour is a Nat. inspired one. There’s going to be all manner of rumours and innuendo designed to destabilise the Labour Party from now through to Nov 26!
     • Deadly_NZ 3.2.3

       9 August 2011 at 11:44 pm

       Well thats it Labour are gone Mallard even puts me off.I posted this on Red Alert But i fully expect Clare to lose the plot and ban me forever, just for telling the truth as I see it. My Post
       Have you not worked it out yet?? Trevor Mallard is a liability to the Labour party getting back into power in 2011 I for one will NOT vote labour in any for if he is still around. and to be brutally honest when Helen left, then Trevor ,Annette, You, and yes even Phil and anyone who was in a position of power should have seen the writing on the wall and resigned.It would have been better for this election. Now I hope I am wrong but you are going to get a beating in the election, because me and every one like me, who battles every day to feed their family does not need the kind of bullshit we see in parliament. Of the whole lot of you the only 2 that make sense are the two Davids. Now I know that you will delete this as an attack on you, trevor and the like. But then again it’s the first sign of over use, to take the constructive criticism as an attack and delete everything that they have said. Yep typical National Party policy, are you going to be the same?

       Oh an I have voted Labour ALL my life. But this year I think not, too many people scared about their pay packets me thinks.
       • Colonial Viper 3.2.3.1

         10 August 2011 at 12:40 am

         Sorry you feel that way. Having read your comments over time I believe that you are consistently more Left than most.

         It appears to me that LAB needed a very fundamental renewal plan after 2008. And I don’t mean your suggestion of every bugger in caucus resigning. You need some experienced old hands around and I’m sure you know that too. Also I don’t mean a pile of fresh faces in caucus; that’s only superficial especially if the fresh new faces were all passed through the same starting filter.

         The generational renewal required was (IS) one of transformational ideology and identity i.e. Labour as a truly inclusive, community focussed, political economic movement.

         The utter failure of free markets to deliver, the domination of financialised crony capitalism, the consequent unpicking of decent family life and community life. The naked theft from future generations of New Zealanders by those wealthiest (typically 50+ age group) who are in power and influence today. And of course the darkening backdrop of global financial collapse and energy depletion. The list goes on.

         This is all ample tinder-dry fuel to start a visionary Centre Left Wing movement with. Where is the spark?

         Now, a CGT is excellent, but I’m sick of people saying that it is brave policy. It’s one step in the right direction, but a step that almost every other OECD country has already taken before us. Given that, how goshdarn “brave” is that really? It’s only brave relative to how timid and neo-liberal conformist our mainstream political economics has become.
       • The Voice of Reason 3.2.3.2

         10 August 2011 at 7:59 am

         Your comment is still up, Deadly. It appears Clare Curran is more tolerant of your comments when you lay off the personal abuse.
          
         I hope you do vote Labour in the end, even if you don’t like the current leadership. The party is more than just the MP’s and still deserves your support, particularly when the chips are down. One of the reasons the MP’s are engaging with the public via social media is that the party cannot afford a full strength media unit to do it for them, as the Nats do. There’s no money for 24/7 commenting, so the MP’s are doing themselves, with assistance from supporters on sites like this. Occasionally there will be outbreaks of lameness, but so what?

         Irish knows better than most what is needed in this area, so I find this post self serving and petulant. But what is worse is losing the support of someone like yourself whose interests are best served by a Labour led Govt. I really hope you’ll think again, maybe help out with the campaigning, maybe make a donation. If Labour don’t make a good showing at the polls, despite the weakness of the current position, we will get a NACT government that feels empowered to set this country back a generation. Ultimately, it’s not up to the Labour MP’s to stop this happening. It’s up to you.

         IrishBill: This isn’t about “lameness” but symptomatic of problems that are being enabled by party members’ silence.
         • LynW 3.2.3.2.1

           10 August 2011 at 8:17 am

           I agree TVOR…lets not allow divide and rule. Labour needs every vote it can muster and the loyalty it’s policies deserve. No asset sales and CGT should set Labour apart enough to look past the ‘silly’ errors.
         • Pete George 3.2.3.2.2

           10 August 2011 at 8:46 am

           TVOR: I hope you do vote Labour in the end, even if you don’t like the current leadership. The party is more than just the MP’s and still deserves your support, particularly when the chips are down.

           An odd comment. Supporting the party regardless of the lack of quality of it’s leadership and it’s MPs is blind loyalty at it’s worse, it won’t pressure the incumbents to improve or stand aside, and you end up with the remnants of a weak party in parliament – and the weakness is magnified because an injection of fresh new talent has been prevented.
           • The Voice of Reason 3.2.3.2.2.1

             10 August 2011 at 9:28 am

             Thanks for your sympathy, troll. It’s not an odd comment, if you understand politics. If it will help, I’ll draw a sporting parallel.
              
             I support West Ham United Football Club on the same basis I support Labour. Win, lose or draw, they are my team. Like the Hammers, Labour don’t always win, even when they are playing well. But the LP represents the values I hold dear and the traditions that made this country strong and I will continue to back them, whatever the relative strengths of the team they put out on the field at any given moment. The party is not the MP’s, it’s the members and WHU is not the players, it’s the club. Both have earned my support and both will continue to get it, even if both do occasionally score an own goal or two.
              
             Now that the Hammers are relegated to the Championship I could jump ship to another London team, say Arsenal, Chelsea or MUFC*. But I won’t, for the same reason I won’t abandon Labour. I know Labour and WHU will be back and when they are back, it will be all the sweeter for me, because I stuck with them when the fair-weather fans turned their backs.
              
             *wee joke for the football fans
              
              
             • IrishBill …

               10 August 2011 at 9:40 am

               You’d never be critical of a West Ham coach that was clearly damaging the teams chances?

               I disagree with you in that you seem to be claiming that anyone that raises concern about how the party is being run is a fair weather friend. I wonder if you would’ve said the same thing in the mid-eighties when plenty of party members were very vocal with their concern?
               • The Voice of Reason …

                 10 August 2011 at 10:23 am

                 Well, it would be fair to say that the problems at West Ham stem from the owners rather than the coaches, a problem duplicated at many businesses. We narrowly avoided bankruptcy when the owners were Icelandic bankers and now the ‘ammers are owned by two ducking and diving porn merchants whose first act as owners was to sack the best coach we’ve had in ages and appoint a man with a proven record of relegating teams, who promptly did just that. But enough about things that are more important than life and death, let’s talk politics!
                  
                 I’m not claiming that anyone (or everyone) that raises concerns is a fair-weather friend, because most people who raise these issues are genuine frustrated at the lack of progress and fearful of what a second term for Key will mean. But I think those issues are best addressed where a difference can be made, which is inside the party, not providing ammunition for the likes of Pete G.
                  
                 The eighties were definitely different times than now and the internal opposition to the Douglasites didn’t crystallise into the NLP until the end of the decade. I wasn’t in Labour then, I was in a smaller but quite influential party and we helped Lange into power in both ’84 and ’87. By 1990 any enthusiasm had well and truly gone and the LP got a deserved hiding because it’s policies and direction were fundamentally wrong. That’s not the case here in 2011 and despite the difficulties we face, the fact remains that a Labour led government is still possible and is the only alternative.
                  
                 We just need to hold our nerve, stop bickering and send Trevor Mallard an email when we disagree with something silly happens rather than make it a bigger deal than it deserves to be.
                  
                  
                 • IrishBill …

                   10 August 2011 at 11:12 am

                   But I think those issues are best addressed where a difference can be made, which is inside the party, not providing ammunition for the likes of Pete G.

                   Where you either strike the same for or against us attitude or a nothing-we-can-do-about-it shrug.

                   The eighties were definitely different times than now and the internal opposition to the Douglasites didn’t crystallise into the NLP until the end of the decade.

                   I’m pretty sure I recall discontent being voiced at the ’86 conference in Dunedin but I might be mixing up dates. There were certainly major affiliates making harsh public criticisms around the time.

                   We just need to hold our nerve, stop bickering and send Trevor Mallard an email when we disagree with something silly happens

                   Like I said, my post isn’t the result of single instance of stupidity but I’m not interested in airing the family laundry here so I guess we’ll just have to discuss this over a beer some time instead.
                   • The Voice of Reason …

                     10 August 2011 at 11:29 am

                     Sounds good to me, IB. Cheers!
             • Pete George …

               10 August 2011 at 11:11 am

               Politics is not like sport – nonperforming coaches, captains and players are dumped, and fanatical supporters are likely to be leading the call to do it, and they are likely to be amongst the most vocal critics too.

               In politics the coaches and captains run the party and won’t usually dump themselves.

               Ignoring or quietly accepting politicians doing dumb and counterproductive things gives tacit suport to incompetence, and leads to the same people repeating the same mistakes. Sound familiar?

               But I think those issues are best addressed where a difference can be made, which is inside the party, not providing ammunition for the likes of Pete G.

               That’s nuts. I can see the problems as well as IB and every ex voter can see them, if they are not openly addressed and fixed then the polls will continue to punish.

               BTW, those quiet emails don’t seem to be working.
               • IrishBill …

                 10 August 2011 at 11:14 am

                 Given you’re a mindless cheerleader for Peter Dunne (albeit the only on on the planet), you’re not really in a position to throw stones on this one PG.
                 • Pete George …

                   10 August 2011 at 11:26 am

                   Who’s most likely to achieve what they want in November – Goff, Mallard or Dunne?

                   Pragmatism is a better bet then repeating failures and not rebuilding.
                   • IrishBill …

                     10 August 2011 at 11:34 am

                     Your mate’s not pragmatic. Or centrist. He’s socially and economically rightwing and only pragmatic in that he’s willing to do what ever it takes to secure his position and the vanity-boost that comes with it. His problem is there’s no love for him anywhere now even the Nat’s “deal” with him is exceptionally lukewarm and I know for a fact there are several cabinet ministers who would happily see him gone.

                     Let’s hope he’s looking for a new job come November 27.
                   • Pete George …

                     10 August 2011 at 11:50 am

                     You didn’t answer the question.

                     I suspect there’s more than a few shadow ministers who would like to see Goff and Mallard looking for new jobs before the election, but probably all cabinet ministers are happy to see them keep on keeping on.
             • Rich …

               11 August 2011 at 4:59 pm

               But a football team is just a symbolic thing. It doesn’t have any practical effect on anyone’s life (well, except a few absurdly wealthy players and coaches) if West Ham win or lose.

               Politics is about choosing who has the right ideas to make the country better. If the party you support has failed and is an incompetent mess with no ideas, it’s time to change parties.
4. sam 4

   8 August 2011 at 10:27 pm

   they’re fucked because the party is full of retards. they’re the ones responsible for the nats high polls and popularity. of course you only have to read the fan boys and girls on here to see that is evident and they won’t do anything about it as they dont see a problem within the party. case and point, the article which appeared on here a while back slamming goff for ruling out that idiot Hone. Hone isn’t popular, people don’t like him so ruling him out was a good idea, oh it may be undemocratic but for how many people? just a few militant handicaps in the far north. National is good because they just read their electorate and take the populist lines. hey what was that thing with goff and the sis the other day? I don’t know, because I don’t give a shit…im still being paid the same shitty salary and milk is still a fuckin rip off. but nice job any way dumbass.
   • richard 4.1

     8 August 2011 at 10:49 pm

     You are a troll. Go back to your gutter.
     • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

       8 August 2011 at 10:56 pm

       Trolls live in caves. Or Kiwiblog. Just sayin 🙂
       • Lanthanide 4.1.1.1

         9 August 2011 at 12:38 am

         Typically trolls are said to live under bridges.
         • felix 4.1.1.1.1

           9 August 2011 at 1:12 am

           Yep, under bridges is definitely the traditional habitat in the stories I learned as a child.

           But I think the LOTR/Dungeons & Dragons types have a cave-troll element to their mythology.
     • Bored 4.1.2

       9 August 2011 at 7:29 am

       Yes a troll BUT have another read, in his own dull way he has pointed out the obvious. The bugger is very aware of Labours faults at a visceral level. Lots of self inflicted wounds from Lab keeping Nact ahead with the voters.
5. jackal 5

   8 August 2011 at 10:44 pm

   Perhaps National’s decision to not engage with the public through a blog site like Labour has was the right move. National’s belief system and general failure to respond would be far more damaging than anything Trevor Mallard might come up with. It’s interesting that he’s getting such a hard time considering that National’s self appointed bloggers Cameron Slater and David Farrar undertake such juvenile posts on a regular basis, and nobody bats an eye.
   • Gosman 5.1

     9 August 2011 at 8:50 am

     Cameron Slater I would agree with you does but David Farrar is not known for too many silly posts beyond his ubiquitous holiday posts.
     • jackal 5.1.1

       9 August 2011 at 11:06 am

       That’s a matter of opinion. The self appointed thing with Farrar might be incorrect, as I’m unsure who is paying for those holidays?

       Back on topic: I totally agree that there’s no benefit for Labour in silly interaction with disingenuous right wing bloggers.
   • lonelyavenger 5.2

     9 August 2011 at 11:57 am

     Cameron Slater and David Farrar are not senior Members of Parliament.
     • Phil 5.2.1

       9 August 2011 at 1:02 pm

       Neither is Mallard, apparently.
       • jackal 5.2.1.1

         9 August 2011 at 1:26 pm

         Let’s stop listening to everybody who isn’t a senior member of Parliament then shall we?
6. barnsley bill 6

   8 August 2011 at 10:51 pm

   Jackal, he is a paid member of parliament, campaign manager and shadow leader of the house. The others are bloggers. Does that need further explanation?
   Who is in charge over at Labour HQ. Evidence would suggest it is N.O Body.
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     8 August 2011 at 10:57 pm

     Actually it seems Right Wing bloggers get better access to SIS info. Anything else?
   • jackal 6.2

     8 August 2011 at 11:06 pm

     The leader of the opposition Phil Goff is in charge at Labour HQ. I compared Labours Red Alert to National’s lack of an online presence in the blogosphere and compared the posting of Trevor Mallard to those who purport to represent National. Making a straw man argument out of that by attributing a posts worth to who made it, clearly shows that you support the hierarchical system that I hate. Mallards blogging skill’s might be far below his debating prowess and knowledge of procedural matters, but how does Labours engagement compare to Nationals total lack of any presence on the blogosphere?
7. barnsley bill 7

   8 August 2011 at 11:12 pm

   The polls suggest that ignoring the blogosphere is working out quite well. However I get your point, Ministers should be too busy but it would be nice to see a few more of the junior blue team mixing it up.
   As far as Colonials comment about the sis OIA situation, I suspect I will get slapped for responding to your offtopic comment but here we go anyway. Don’t bag a blogger for wording an OIA better than the media. Fairfax should be getting a serve for their poor effort abd Goffs three attempts at a version is the real story.
   • jackal 7.1

     8 August 2011 at 11:18 pm

     I wasn’t aware that there were three different accounts given by Phil Goff… perhaps you’ve been reading too much RWNJ spin? From the media I’ve seen, Phil Goff has been consistently saying that he was not privy to the documents. I disagree that Ministers should be too busy to engage with their constituency, government can only represent if they engage with the public. Could you reply to the comment instead of creating a new thread please barnsley bill?
   • Colonial Viper 7.2

     8 August 2011 at 11:28 pm

     Don’t blame a blogger for receiving better coaching about wording an OIA than the media.

     Fixed it for you, see.
     • McFlock 7.2.1

       8 August 2011 at 11:36 pm

       and, most likely, a tutorial session in wandering around websites that don’t belong to him.
        
       I think I know where all the night-class funding is going…
8. barnsley bill 8

   8 August 2011 at 11:32 pm

   thanks, who coached him?

   [lprent: I realize that you are a bit hopeless at this technology bit. But do learn to use the reply button to reply in the threads rather than scatter-gunning all over the comments for the post. At present you appear to think that you are at the sewer or no minister. ]
9. barnsley bill 9

   8 August 2011 at 11:34 pm

   which question [name deleted]?
10. Clint Heine 10

    8 August 2011 at 11:43 pm

    Sounds to me like something is leaky inside Labour… anybody know a plumber?
    • McFlock 10.1

      8 August 2011 at 11:54 pm

      Lol – as opposed to the high-pressure hermetic seal that is ACT media communications, Clint?
      Let he who is without sin, and all that.
       
      How’s life being lead by Brash and Banksie?
      • Clint Heine 10.1.1

        9 August 2011 at 1:48 am

        Whoosh, that was my comment going over your head. But awfully cute you tried to spin something back at me while ignoring that giant freight train heading right for you.

        Jackal may be able to fill you in on that one, he is a leak specialist.

        Back to the subject at hand – it is never nice to see a campaign strategist losing the plot. ACT had Ansell, a complete trainwreck and Labour has Mallard, who seems to be deliberately hurting Labour in places they never thought they had. Do you ditch or muzzle the guy or play along and hope he doesn’t have further ambition after November?

        I got bigger fish to fry, been a little bit of “urban disruption” out my way.
        • McFlock 10.1.1.1

          9 August 2011 at 11:52 am

          lol.
          That’s not urban decay – it’s a giant billboard telling you that marx was far more correct than Adam Smith.
    • felix 10.2

      8 August 2011 at 11:59 pm

      Err, what? The “leak” you’re talking about is either a blog post or… another blog post.

      Best get that plumber on the phone though, you’re full of shit again.
      • Clint Heine 10.2.1

        9 August 2011 at 1:50 am

        Meh. It’s an in-joke between me and Jackal.

        Didn’t stop you running in though did it? No need to tell me, you just were desperate to talk to me weren’t you? Glad we got the formalities out of the way!

        [lprent: That is silly. It is a wide open public forum where it is likely that a thousand or more people will read this today. Use e-mail or other closed forums for private conversations. ]
        • felix 10.2.1.1

          9 August 2011 at 2:02 am

          Of course. I know you only come here because you miss me.
        • jackal 10.2.1.2

          9 August 2011 at 10:58 am

          It’s an in-joke between me and Jackal.

          I don’t “leak” information as everything I blog about is in the public arena already. If that is what you were implying, it’s not funny and hardly an in joke.
          • Clint Heine 10.2.1.2.1

            9 August 2011 at 10:39 pm

            I meant that Jackal is a plumber. The obvious subtlety about it went well over your head.
            • jackal 10.2.1.2.1.1

              9 August 2011 at 10:51 pm

              How long did it take you to come up with that one Clint? Fucking hilarious!
              • Clint Heine …

                9 August 2011 at 11:39 pm

                All of 2 seconds [name deleted].
                • jackal …

                  10 August 2011 at 9:49 am

                  It shows.
                  • Clint Heine …

                    10 August 2011 at 11:25 pm

                    And more to come [name deleted]. You’re welcome.
                    • jackal …

                      11 August 2011 at 11:31 am

                      PS My names not [name deleted].

                      [lprent: Sorry, I didn’t pick up on that. I assumed that you’d put your real name out and I haven’t been crushing outing on you as I’d normally do. Oh well, I’ll just be a bit more ruthless than usual. I see that it was just a previous psuedonym ]
                    • jackal …

                      12 August 2011 at 7:04 pm

                      No probs. It’s more a continuity thing where people will wonder who the hell they’re talking about. Thanks lprent.
11. felix 11

    9 August 2011 at 12:00 am

    The whole thing is meh.

    Bigger fish.
12. logie97 12

    9 August 2011 at 12:30 am

    Yawn. Really not an issue. You have to wonder who reads newspapers’ blog sites. Bit like letters to the editor really. Junkies get exercised but matters little really in the overall scheme of things.

    Next…
13. gobsmacked 13

    9 August 2011 at 1:32 am

    I agree 100% with Irish Bill (and I don’t always).

    It’s got well past the stage where those of us who are left-leaning should try and defend Mallard and his “strategy” (though that’s a misnomer, it’s just a shambles). The fact that right-wingers are dancing a jig or concern-trolling doesn’t mean we should just leap in to defend this incompetence, this wilful self-destruction of Labour’s campaign.

    He seems to be out of control. It’s beyond a joke now, and the leadership and caucus should rein him in. If they’re doing it behind closed doors, that’s fine – just make damn sure Trevor gets the message. NOW.
    • seeker 13.1

      9 August 2011 at 1:59 pm

      “I agree 100% with Irish Bill ……”

      With all due respect I knew you would Gobsmacked.

      Both you and Irish bill (you mostly), appear to be so negative about Labour and so vociferous with your nagging that i wonder you don’t remove yourselves during the lead up to the election to kiwiblog or slaters (such an unfortunate name to live up to) site. At least Mallard’s heart is in the right place even if his efforts at satire/parody appear lame to you. I’m not at all sure your heart, or Irishbill’s for that matter is in the right place judging by your negs.and nags.

      I, and many people in this country, need Nact out if we are to survive, and you are not helping……..
      • gobsmacked 13.1.1

        9 August 2011 at 2:45 pm

        Seeker, a simple search of this site will give you hundreds of comments by me, attacking the Right / supporting the Left. It’s pretty clear where I stand.

        But I don’t kid myself that what I say or do on here matters much. It doesn’t. So don’t worry about it.

        On the other hand, what Labour’s chief strategist is doing matters very much. And what he’s doing is clearly frustrating and disappointing a lot of people on the left, or centre-left. And it’s not winning votes.

        If he (and the Labour leadership) get their act together, Labour still might win the election.

        If they carry on acting the way they have been, they won’t.

        We need NACT out. He isn’t helping.

        [lprent: Or a less simple search. Use advanced search, set to comments and prefix the commentators name with @author ]
        
14. mickysavage 14

    9 August 2011 at 8:00 am

    Hmmm.

    Me thinks this is much ado about nothing.  Day in day out Red Alert posts weighty well thought through articles where issues of the day are debated and put out for discussion.  RWNJs frequent the site but the moderation is remarkably liberal.

    Trevor has a bit of fun with the slithery one and everything else is ignored and this is held up as evidence that the campaign is on the ropes.

    This is not the strategy.  Look at how the CGT was handled.  That is an example of how things are going to be rolled out.  Forgive Trevor if he has a bit of fun occasionally however.

    Cameron must be smiling from ear to ear …

     
    • SHG 14.1

      9 August 2011 at 9:33 am

      Look at how the CGT was handled. That is an example of how things are going to be rolled out.

      You mean an important policy is released prematurely, with important details to be left to a vague “Expert Group”, and about which Trevor Mallard accidentally leaks an internal email that contains scripted “spontaneous” Internet messages of support and instructions to not talk about details of the policy?
    • seeker 14.2

      9 August 2011 at 2:13 pm

      Very well put Micky Savage @ 8.00am. Take note Irishbill and moan your head off down the pub.or write to Trevor if you have to nag in the written word. You are not helping New Zealand.
      • seeker 14.2.1

        9 August 2011 at 2:31 pm

        Sorry Irish Bill, my last comment@ 2.13pm may have sounded bad “you are not helping New Zealand”. I tried to correct but time ran out.I just meant that to help New Zealand survive we need to get rid of neo liberalism in the guise of Nact (once and for all,hopefully) and writing this sort of post at this time with only weeks to go to the election is not helping. Wrong post,wrong time.
    • Deadly_NZ 14.3

      9 August 2011 at 6:31 pm

      Bullshit Trevor cant even count. he banned me for a month 5 months ago and I still can’t post under that nom de plume. And as to his antics in parliament, for gods sake he’s supposed to be an adult, and now to attack the NACT loving media, makes me wonder if he’s secretly working for the bloody nats.
    • QoT 14.4

      9 August 2011 at 9:59 pm

      I don’t think this shows the campaign is “on the ropes”, micky, but this – plus other wondrous “hilarity” like the totally edgy Hopoate joke in the incredibly shitty “Let’s Not” Flash game – pretty certainly demonstrates that the Labour campaign is being run by someone with an incredibly immature sense of humour – and a complete lack of the judgement necessary not to display that immaturity for the world to see.
15. Southern Man 15

    9 August 2011 at 8:52 am

    Im undecided who to vote for this year.But looking at the preformance of labour of late i have my doubts as to whether i will vote labour..i have in the past but lived to regret douglas’s tenure.Trevor seems to be undermineing phill goff by being a loose cannon.
    How can the constituants have confidence in a party that appears to be running round like a headless chook and produceing policies that are poorly thought out. A CGT is not a bad idea but given how it was presented it resmbled a dogs breakfeast. If Labour wants my vote this year they are going to have to get a lot more credibility and get members like trevor to pull their head in.
    None of the parties realy inspire me..none of them
16. Tom Gould 16

    9 August 2011 at 10:23 am

    “I’ve noticed the gallery taking Key and his government to task a lot more this year than previously.”

    What? You watched One News or 3 News lately? Like, since 2008? You seem to be saying that after giving Key and his government slavish positive coverage, now we are a few weeks out from an election, they feel for appearances sake the need to look a wee bit balanced. Meanwhile, they still spike real stories like Joyce ‘overlooking’ a vital OIA letter involving a multi-million dollar deal, or Brownlee not being ‘100 percent’ when blaming appointees’ demands for jacking up fees when it turns out he didn’t even ask them? Imagine if these two incidents had happened under Labour? These would have been a front page scandal campaign and resignations demanded by the editorial writers and gallery. But somehow the rules have changed? Can it be political?
17. Rodel 17

    9 August 2011 at 10:28 am

    Go Trevor!! At last…at last someone in Labour is prepared to fight instead of wimpishly kowtowing to our third rate media and their devious political masters.
    Maybe now the voters will take some notice and realize that Labour means business.
    I’d still like to see Goff display a bit of Mallard’s mongrel instead of being a nice John Key clone

    Trev won’t get everything right all the time but more power to him.
    • TEA 17.1

      9 August 2011 at 1:32 pm

      Yes I like Mallard too, a man with a bit of go about him and can stand pain. Mallard is another bike rider like myself with ACC history.
      On all accounts he hit the road pretty hard in Otago during the two day “Tour deTaieri” I bet Nic Smith smiled at that one.

      Why is it that most of the Nats are so smiley these days.
      Perhaps the smiles will have been wiped off this week due to the US AA+ downgrade.

      I would love to know how much return the NZ Supper Fund has made/loss from the $19.22bn held at May 2011 to today.
18. outofbed 18

    9 August 2011 at 10:53 am

    So all we do is sit and wait for the impeding election loss for the left and Labours implosion.
    4 months out and National look unassailable.
    Time to try something out of the square, a bit radical.. nothing to lose eh?
    I reckon Labour should roll Goff and install Jacinda Ardern as leader.
    Any male leader is going to have a hard time competing against Mr Perfect. But a young presentable female, different kettle of fish. Lots more female votes and a few xtra shallow males
    The press would be all over it and And the National party would be a little spooked with such a potential game changer, Can’t see Key attacking JA in the same way as he is does Goff
    Put a bit of a bomb under things.
    Lets face it can’t be worse then what is about to happen.
    • Southern Man 18.1

      9 August 2011 at 11:12 am

      Changeing jokeys half way through the race isnt going to do anything if the horse is about knackered is it? Labour should pay close attention to the situation in australia.Juliar gillard knifed krudd and then did a deal with the greens for power and look where that has ended up. if there was an election in australia next month apart from bob katter independants would be extinct.labour would be demolished and the greens would go the same way as the democrats did. into politcal oblivion
      Changeing leaders is not going to acheive anything at this stage.Phill Goff needs to get a spine and tell the likes of trevor and co to pull their heads in or they are looking at another term in opposition. as i said above.im undecided but judging by this latest bit of malarky by trevor its obvious they dont want my vote.
      • prism 18.1.1

        9 August 2011 at 9:22 pm

        @southern man – It seems to me that you can’t look at Julia Gillard’s ratings without taking into account the carbon tax. As I understand it she either, or practically, said – read my lips there will be no carbon tax. A reckless statement and all the media I hear say that now she is introducing one people feel a lack of trust and enthusiasm for her. Though it may be right to do, she promised cross her heart she wouldn’t and she is seen as a smooth liar. Labour here should stress each lack of commitment to promises shown by NACT.
        • millsy 18.1.1.1

          9 August 2011 at 10:13 pm

          Gillard is toast come 2013, along with Labour. I’m picking that the ALP will be out of power for a generation after that.
      • Deadly_NZ 18.1.2

        10 August 2011 at 12:00 am

        @Southern Man. If you want to make a point or two, then correct spelling is a help, and the correct spelling of peoples names is essential.
    • Tom Gould 18.2

      9 August 2011 at 11:19 am

      @ outofbed, brilliant! At last someone who ‘gets’ how politics is done in NZ these days. Phew.
    • Bored 18.3

      9 August 2011 at 11:54 am

      Snap…absolutely spot on.
    • SHG 18.4

      9 August 2011 at 11:57 am

      To be fair, Key doesn’t really attack Goff at all. It’s not necessary.

      In fact National’s plan for beating Labour seems to be “sit back, say nothing, and watch Labour beat Labour”.
      • Marisa 18.4.1

        9 August 2011 at 1:00 pm

        Umm, no. Lie back and think of England.
    • Maui 18.5

      9 August 2011 at 1:13 pm

      Agreed. National frequently pushed the theme of entrepreneurial youth
      versus boomer conservatism.

      The last time I checked, a lot entrepreneurial youth were rioting in the UK.

      Jacinta would expose the shallowness of that argument, doubtless suggested by
      Crosby-Textor & as a convenient differentiator.

      Labour needs generational renewal.

      With burgeoning youth unemployment, it may be forced on them.
    • Deadly_NZ 18.6

      9 August 2011 at 11:57 pm

      Good point or even Cunliffe of Parker both have proven themselves masters of the oral debate where as Goff asks questions and Key just laughs at him.
19. deemac 19

    9 August 2011 at 11:26 am

    the average voter does not pay attention to any of this stuff but the overall bias of the MSM does have a longterm drip drip effect on their perceptions. I have spoken to hundreds of voters over the last few months and though many are unhappy with the current situation, the media are telling them that the govt is doing a good job and rarely covering anything Labour says or does so they see no alternative.
    Oh and if anyone really is having trouble deciding how to vote, try to remember that after 26 November we will either have a Nat govt or a Labour-led one – there is no alternative.
    Anyone care to imagine what NZ will look like after another 3 years of the current showert?
    .
    • seeker 19.1

      9 August 2011 at 2:06 pm

      Well said Deemac! Life with three more years of Nact doesn’t bear thinking about.It will make that plate of :”cold porridge” that Prism mentioned @ 12.32pm look like ambrosia.
20. prism 20

    9 August 2011 at 12:32 pm

    I don’t know Mallard as well as some people on this blog do but what I know doesn’t encourage me to think well of him or Labour. Labour can’t win unless they stop serving last week’s cold porridge to the punters. Thinking in culinary vein, John Key is a tasty high-class meal with sparkling wine. Given a choice between that and cold porridge only masochists would choose Labour.
21. Rodel 21

    9 August 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Lots of little snide right wing moles here pretending to support the left and trying to undermine it at the same time..Be a bit more subtle lads.You’re not fooling anyone except yourselves…

    Remember Hooten’s comment in the Hollow Men……..”F***k we’re good!” (They weren’t)
    • gobsmacked 21.1

      9 August 2011 at 1:34 pm

      little snide right wing moles here pretending to support the left

      Such as? Outofbed? Bored? Irish Bill? Who?

      The right-wingers (Heine, Barnsley) are obvious, and who cares what they think? It’s the frustration on the LEFT that matters – and it’s real.

      A few examples online …

      No Right Turn
      Imperator Fish (Labour member)
      Dim-Post
      Plenty of of left-supporting people commenting here, and on other blogs (no, not just trolls)
      etc.

      Forget the MSM. Forget the Right. This is going down like a cup of cold sick on the LEFT.

      You can encourage Labour (and Trevor) to keep trying to lose votes, or not. I vote not.
      • seeker 21.1.1

        9 August 2011 at 2:52 pm

        Thought I’d re post my earlier comment here, as it seems even more appropriate now.

        “I agree 100% with Irish Bill ……” wrote Gobsmacked @ 12.32.am

        With all due respect I knew you would Gobsmacked.

        Both you and Irish bill (you mostly), appear to be so negative about Labour and so vociferous with your nagging that I wonder you don’t remove yourselves during the lead up to the election to kiwiblog or slaters (such an unfortunate name to live up to) site. At least Mallard’s heart is in the right place even if his efforts at satire/parody appear lame to you. I’m not at all sure your heart, or Irishbill’s for that matter, is in the right place judging by your negs.and nags.

        I, and many people in this country, need Nact out if we are to survive, and you are not helping …..
        Reply
        • IrishBill 21.1.1.1

          9 August 2011 at 7:43 pm

          You’ve no idea.
        • Maggie 21.1.1.2

          10 August 2011 at 7:49 pm

          Are you serious Seeker? Get a clue! The reason why people like IB continue to “nag” is they do nothing but work towards ousting the Nats and neoliberalism from New Zealand. So seeing Labour stuff around with crap like Mallad’s internet antics is particularly galling.

          Labour did really well with much of the CGT release. But for Fsake, one good media release after three years of no centralised vision and focus isn’t going to reassure Labour supporters/volunteers that Labour has got it together. Thanks IB, you are continuing to try to get through to them long after many of us have given up trying.
      • Clint Heine 21.1.2

        10 August 2011 at 11:31 pm

        Now that is very uncharitable. My point was very genuine.

        I said that Trev has gone loco, just as we had a problem with Ansell. It wasn’t pretty for ACT nor is it for Labour. Plenty of time to rearrange things and get your message out. I might not agree with it wholesale – but at least put out a message that all of your MPs will stand beside, rather than the loose collection of messages that are being put out lately.
22. MrSmith 22

    9 August 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Good post Irish, to much back slapping going on around hear lately. If you think Trevor is fucking things up then better to speck up than to sit and hope. I have noticed the media giving labour a little more slack lately as well.
     
    Labour need to give the media more good common scene policy that they can throw at the Nact’s, Labour shouldn’t expect them (the media) to do the work for them.
23. prism 23

    9 August 2011 at 9:33 pm

    There may or may not be some truth to that, but either way, instead of whingeing incessantly about it and sending out barely veiled attacks on journalists, why not try something else to turn it around?

    The Pope had a Popemobile, Kiwibank had the little green car, Labour could get a high 4wd, paint it cream and drive it around NZ with a tongue in cheek message that though some people say that pollies get lost in an ivory tower, they are bringing their ivory tower to the people. It would make a point, humorously. At each town it went to something would occur that would be newsworthy for the region at least and probably all the MSM.
24. Jeff 24

    10 August 2011 at 10:55 am

    Will undountedly be labbelled a Troll for this but…

    NZer’s are voting for a personality in John Key. One day, those in the Labour party will realise the reason why NZer’s are so turned off by Labour at the moment, is the personalities within Labour, the old guard epitomised by the likes of Toxic Trev. Unfortunately his toxic, inept brand of politics seems to be permeating the some of the newer members of the Labour Caucus. Perhaps after the coming election, this maybe realised by the Labour Party and a much needed clean out and refreshing of the parliamentry wing removing the perception (real or otherwise) of the party being run by “the gaggle of gays and self serving unionists”.

    Maybe, just maybe then Labour will become a credible opposition and have a chance of taking the treasury benches once again.
    • Ian Jackson 24.1

      10 August 2011 at 1:11 pm

      Absolutely-my old great grandfather was one of the founding fathers in Blackball-I know he’s turning in his grave listening to the tripe being espoused here.
      Lemmings he would say. His dear old party has turned into a rabble. Some of the comments are juvenile and desparate. Leaders are what the party needs, someone with (dare I say it) charisma!
      Who have the party got that can get the message across-none that I can see even in the current lot.
      As for Mr Presland, please desist from sullying the great name.
    • The Voice of Reason 24.2

      10 August 2011 at 1:20 pm

      It really depends on whether you want personality or policy, Jeff. I’d rather have more of the latter with a sprinkling of the former. Obama has personality, too, but without policy, he has turned into a major disappointment. So, de we go down the route that National have taken, where winning comes first and ideas come a distant second or do we go with offering a choice on the things that matter, such as fairer taxation and the retention of the family silver?
      • Jeff 24.2.1

        10 August 2011 at 1:35 pm

        TVOR … at the moment, the public dont give a shit what policies Labour put up. Fact is, as shown in all polls of late, they just do not like the Senior Labour Caucus and the way they act. That is why they were beaten at the last election, that is why they will be beaten at the coming election and unless something is done to remove the “old Guard”, read Goff, King, Mallard, Street, Dyson, Tizard and a number of others, they will be beaten at the 2014 election

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