Finally Fighting for Democracy?

31 comments on “Finally Fighting for Democracy? ”

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1. David Scott 1

   31 October 2015 at 11:10 am

   Cold War 2.0 with a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” reality on intervention.
   Let’s just cut ties with USA, China, and Russia and the world will be a happier place.
   • Colonial Viper 1.1

     31 October 2015 at 11:12 am

     Let’s just cut ties with USA, China, and Russia and the world will be a happier place.

     A small country like NZ has to actively, pro-actively and independently engage with the major powers of the world.
     • marty mars 1.1.1

       31 October 2015 at 9:48 pm

       why?
2. Colonial Viper 2

   31 October 2015 at 11:11 am

   Neither the Iraqi nor the Syrian Government have invited US forces to begin combat operations in their countries, making the US intervention unilateral and illegal in international law.
   • Bill 2.1

     31 October 2015 at 11:29 am

     I take your point, but there have been ‘consultations’ with the Iraqi PM, whatever that means.

     Would you have argued the same if say the UK had sent some expeditionary force to Spain in the ’30s to help out in the revolution (ie, on the side of the Spanish people as opposed to the side of Franco or Stalin)?

     If…and it is a huge ‘if’, the US is actually going to back up the peoples in the Autonomous Regions in a way that doesn’t simultaneously fuck them up or over, then I for one am going to be struggling to object.
     • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

       31 October 2015 at 11:49 am

       The US has tacitly OK’d their allies Turkey to bomb US allies the Kurds. How’s that for friends.
       • Bill 2.1.1.1

         31 October 2015 at 11:58 am

         Bastards doing ‘the right thing’ by accident and for all the wrong reasons is a possible reality.

         Anyway. Just been reading Turse’s piece at ‘The Intercept’

         The contingent, comprised of fewer than 50 members of the special operations forces, will be sent to Kurdish-controlled territory “where they will help coordinate local ground forces and Coalition efforts to counter ISIL.”

         Would that be the Kurds who are seeking the formation of a Kurdistan or the Rojavans? I can’t quite figure it, but if the former, then yes, it’s petrol on fire…and ironically, the same Kurds (I think) that Turkey bombed with tacit US permission.
       • GregJ 2.1.1.2

         31 October 2015 at 12:57 pm

         Let’s be clear – not just the US – all of Turkey’s NATO allies are turning a blind eye to it. Turkey’s air offensive against Da’ish is token at best.
         • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2.1

           31 October 2015 at 1:25 pm

           Indeed. And the weird thing – by turning a blind eye to Turkey and the US in Syria, many of those NATO countries are now having to cope with hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees.

           Talk about blowback.
       • left for deadshark 2.1.1.3

         31 October 2015 at 5:48 pm

         Does anybody know if the got to the bottom of a British women found hanged in a Turkish airport toilet she had worked for IWPR in Arbil Kurdish region of Iraq.
         • left for deadshark 2.1.1.3.1

           31 October 2015 at 6:15 pm

           Edit.. Her name was Jacky Sutton..Ex-BBC journalist working for Institute of War and Peace Reporting.

           excuse my clunkiness
           • dukeofurl 2.1.1.3.1.1

             1 November 2015 at 1:27 pm

             Institute of War and Peace Reporting?

             Sounds like one of those organisations heavily infiltrated by Western intelligence agencies.
   • dukeofurl 2.2

     31 October 2015 at 1:57 pm

     Thats incorrect, the Iraqi government has invited the US back to their country to fight, ( which applies to to Iran as well)what the US did was lie about it being only training.

     Regarding Syria, yes it true Obama is doing something they say that Putin and Russia should have sanctions for.

     The US has been heavily involved in Syria from the get go with the Arab spring uprising against Assad. I wouldnt have been possible for a civilian style revolution to operate effectively against Assads ‘heavier’ military forces. The fiction was around that the Gulf states were the prime movers here, while they have made funds available, its the US that has bought weapons on a large scale from the shambles in Libya and shipped them across the Med to Turkey and then into Syria.

     As for the idea they are supporting the Kurds, history shows they are led along until the US will turn on them or deliver them up to Turkey ( who is also operating inside Syria )
   • PI 2.3

     2 November 2015 at 2:20 pm

     If you google it, there are many references to the Iraqi government consenting to air strikes.

     In terms of Syria – again, if you google it you will find various descriptions of the argument for the legality of the air strikes – which essentially turn on the defence of Iraq.

     Here is one of those arguments from the London School of Economics website (which also refers to Iraqi consent): http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2014/10/01/airstrikes-on-isis-targets-in-syria-and-iraq-are-legal-under-international-law/

     (This is the authors’ view, not my view.)
     • Colonial Viper 2.3.1

       2 November 2015 at 2:29 pm

       If you google it, there are many references to the Iraqi government consenting to air strikes.

       Air strikes yes, not the return of ground combat troops.
3. johnm 3

   31 October 2015 at 11:29 am

   “Unnamed U.S. officials reportedly “stressed” to Reuters that the new boots-on-the-ground in Syria were “not meant to engage in front-line combat but rather to advise and assist moderate rebels.” ”
   ‘Gasoline on the Fire’: Obama Orders Ground Troops To Syria

   Expanded military footprint will include Special Ops forces inside Syria and expanded ground operations in Iraq

   http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/10/30/gasoline-fire-obama-orders-ground-troops-syria

   Comments:

   “Russia in Syria: CIA-backed ‘moderate’ rebels struck by fresh air strikes as Iranian troops ‘pour into conflict’4

   Yes, I lit the fuse, but I had no idea that would make the bomb explode.

   What happens when U.S. troops are killed in a Russian air strike?

   The Reuters article states that the US Special Forces will be embedded with “moderate rebels” in the “northern part of Syria.” That would put them in the midst of the al Nusra militias, an offshoot of al Qaeda. Although this group is willing to accept money and arms from the US, it is hostile to the US is every other way. Meanwhile, the Russian deputy foreign secretary has stated that any armed intervention in Syria without the invitation of the Syrian government is “unacceptable.” Our special forces will be under bombardment not only from ISIS, but from the nearby Kurds, the al Nusra, and Russian air attacks. Scahill is right — this is bound to end well!

   Yeehaaah, we’re gonna start a war with Russia! Cracking job Puppet Emperor!

   We thought Obama would be “better than Bush” but even Jr. didn’t try to start a war with Russia. I hope the law of unintended consequences takes a vacation.

   I’m drained of all emotion. This is beyond sick. This country is sick, psychotic really. I guess the government is ready to borrow another six trillion dollars for more war. It didn’t get enough in Iraq and Afghanistan. It needs more — more death, more destruction, more killing and maiming of innocents. What does that part of the world hold that is worth the first six trillion dollars and the next six trillion dollars? Is if for the oil companies? If so, couldn’t the taxpayers have just given them two or three trillion and called it all even and stay out of that part of the world? What the hell is really going on here? It has to be much more than meets the eye, much more than the intent of the mainstream media propaganda. I’m sick of all of it. I’m sick at heart. Stop it. Please. Stop it.

   Just wait for the pandemonium that will ensue following the first televised beheading of a Murkin Soldier. Looks like we’ll all be getting ready for the Neutron Dance.

   “Guess I’m really good at killing people.” Barack Obama 2013

   Fuck the god damned USA. The USA is hell bent on vaporizing the entire world with World War III. There has never been a more evil terrorist nation than the USA in the history of the world.

   To “control the world” and the world economy, including key energy supplies, against China, Russia, and any other possible future threat to US military hegemony. To have WWIII (at the appropriate time, which sure seems to be drawing close), and to emerge as the undisputed world hegemon. In the illusory mad dreams of the architects of US strategy.
   • Bill 3.1

     31 October 2015 at 11:41 am

     The Reuters article states that the US Special Forces will be embedded with “moderate rebels” in the “northern part of Syria.” That would put them in the midst of the al Nusra militias, an offshoot of al Qaeda

     The northern part of Syria is also where the autonomous regions are. (Look at the map I attached to the front page of the post.) The peoples in the autonomous regions are not seeking nationhood and are building democratic institutions that cast our shabby ideas of democracy into stark relief. They are also militarily engaged against Al Nusra/Al Qaeda. They are not interested in overthrowing Assad and have no wish to establish a Kurdish state either in N. Syria or S Iraq. And Russia isn’t bombing anywhere near that region.

     Now, if that is where the US is looking to lend support….
     • GregJ 3.1.1

       31 October 2015 at 1:03 pm

       It may well be a big if though.

       There is a real feeling in this part of the world that the Russians have really outflanked the US & NATO over Syria. There are even rumblings coming out of Iraq which indicate a glance northwards to the Kremlin. Of course views here are clouded by the Sunni/Shia split, Iran and the nasty little war down in Yemen.
     • johnm 3.1.2

       31 October 2015 at 1:20 pm

       ” The US and its allies already have boots on ground inside Syria. It’s not official, it’s a so-called “covert operation” which everybody knows about. ”

       ” The Pentagon together with NATO, Turkey and Israel, et al, have routinely dispatched their military advisers, special forces and intelligence operatives to the Syrian war theater. These foreign forces have operated within rebel ranks from the outset of the war on Syria in March 2011.

       While neither Washington nor the mainstream media have “officially” acknowledged their presence inside Syria, it should be understood that these Western special forces have performed routine command functions within the various terrorist groups in liaison with the US-NATO led coalition. In other words, they are largely responsible for coordinating countless ISIS and Al Nusrah terrorist operations against civilians inside Syria on behalf of the US led coalition. Needless to say, they are also supported by the US led air campaign, which theoretically is targeting (rather than “protecting”) the terrorists. ”

       ” We are at a dangerous crossroads

       International diplomacy has collapsed. US foreign policy makers are ignorant and corrupt, unaware of the implications of their actions.

       The US led air raids are being implemented simultaneously with those of Russia.

       Stalemate at the UN. The UN Secretary General Ban ki-Moon (appointed by Washington ) supports the US led war under a humanitarian banner.

       These various actions and threats by the US led coalition –not to mention the chatter pertaining to a “World War III option” in the corridors of the US Congress– point to a scenario of military escalation, which could potentially lead to direct military confrontation between the US led coalition and the Russian Federation. ”

       http://www.globalresearch.ca/boots-on-the-ground-inside-syria-the-pentagon-comes-to-the-rescue-of-the-islamic-state-isis/5485183
4. Colonial Viper 4

   31 October 2015 at 12:31 pm

   US Congresswoman Gabbard to Wolf Blitzer CNN:

   US needs to stop taking illegal action against the sovereign government of Assad; US should not be arming Al Qaeda and Al Nusra who are the sworn enemies of the USA; US must avoid situations which place it in direct conflict with Russia.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHkher6ceaA
   • johnm 4.1

     31 October 2015 at 8:00 pm
5. RedLogix 5

   31 October 2015 at 12:45 pm

   It doesn’t take much imagination to foresee that with the USA, China and Russia all in the first stages of direct military conflict with each other right now – there is every reason to suspect it will end very badly.

   So badly in fact – there is the hope that the fear of the unholy consequences just might become a catalyst for some fundamental change.
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     31 October 2015 at 1:22 pm

     The South China Sea is going to be another flashpoint this decade.
     • RedLogix 5.1.1

       31 October 2015 at 2:41 pm

       Decade? I’m concerned for the next few months. The South China Sea question is a very black or white territorial issue with virtually no wriggle room.

       And with so many regional pressures and face at stake, neither side is going to back down.
       • McFlock 5.1.1.1

         1 November 2015 at 2:45 pm

         Some of the safety comes from the fact that it’s such a long-running and obvious flashpoint: pilots would be very clearly briefed on ruled of engagement, captains told to avoid the disputed zone unless ordered to send a message, all sides would have controllers who can speak the others’ languages, etc. It’s a diplomatic dance, everybody wants to lead but nobody wants to trip up the entire group.

         WW1 started because one nobody walking out of a cafe in the arse end of Europe happened to see a car that had taken a wrong turning and was trying to reverse back onto the correct route, and all the plates came crashing down. That’s the sort of thing that will screw us.
6. One Two 6

   31 October 2015 at 1:11 pm

   http://m.journal-neo.org/2015/10/26/genies-and-genocide-syria-israel-russia-and-much-oil-2/
   • GregJ 6.1

     31 October 2015 at 1:45 pm

     Well it’s interesting but a bit too much conspiracy theory in it for my liking. Israel has already annexed the Golan Heights and I doubt they would ever give it back due to it’s strategic significance so any oil/gas there is just a bonus.
     • One Two 6.1.1

       31 October 2015 at 4:10 pm

       Perhaps you could explain where you belieive conspiracy does not exist in ME strategy, as you see it Greg

       Users of the term ‘conspiracy theory’ have been shown up in recent times for what they are…
       • GregJ 6.1.1.1

         1 November 2015 at 4:00 am

         Well your the one who posted the link with no comment – you show me yours first before I show you mine. 😉
     • left for deadshark 6.1.2

       31 October 2015 at 6:01 pm

       I think you will find water is the issue here, GregJ
       • GregJ 6.1.2.1

         1 November 2015 at 4:06 am

         It is certainly an issue I agree. It is 6.00pm in the evening here and 32 degrees outside. Believe me I know about water issues in this part of the world! 😉

         The Institute of Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences is an interesting organisation – I subscribe to a number of their feeds (Russian & Eastern European History is my academic background) but like all Russian government sponsored organisations I always view their contributions with some caution.

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