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Greens oppose rebranded TPPA

Written By: - Date published: 12:33 pm, November 13th, 2017 - 150 comments
Categories: capitalism, Economy, greens, trade - Tags: , , ,

Newshub are reporting that the Green Party will vote against the rebranded TPPA.

Green Party trade spokesperson Golriz Ghahraman says it will be opposed by the Party as long as foreign investors have the ability to sue our Government – either now or in the future.

“We’d like to move forward to a more modern type of trade agreement. We see this much more as an investor type of agreement,” Ms Ghahraman told Newshub.

“We’d like to put things like environmental protection and protection of human rights and our democracy at the centre of trade deals, so we won’t be supporting this.”

Golriz Ghahraman tweeted this morning and is answering some questions on twitter:

The TPPA is now called CPTPP – the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Or TPP for those that think ‘Comprehensive and Progressive’ is an oxymoron when applied to the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement.

Details of Green Party trade policy are here.

150 comments on “Greens oppose rebranded TPPA”

  1. The decrypter 1

    James,- sort things out pronto.

    • weka 1.1

      Assuming you mean Shaw and not our commenter James 😉 Shaw is in Germany for the Climate Change conference,

      • The decrypter 1.1.1

        No I meant commenter james, he seems to be on the negative side of things.

        • James 1.1.1.1

          Nope – I’m all for signing it.

          Not negative on it at all. Just finding it funny that labour will sign it.

          • David C 1.1.1.1.1

            You mean funny that Labour needs Nationals help to get it passed?

            • Muttonbird 1.1.1.1.1.1

              You’re jumping the gun there. This deal has gone back into negotiation. There’s more to be done on it and the Greens might very well be happy with the outcome at a later point.

              No need for corrupt National then.

              • David C

                Mutton.
                Yip we know the Greens will bend whichever way Taxcinda tells them to so you are right, they will support in the end.
                Souls are sold.

                • Muttonbird

                  No. There’ll be discussion, partnership, and consensus.

                  National weren’t very good at that. They preferred to destroy their friends. They killed the Maori Party and they tried to killed NZF. This is the reason they failed to form a government and one of the reasons their front bench was in the high court today.

                  • David C

                    Mutton.
                    I really hope you are right and the Greens bend over and take it, consensus, if that is what you wish to call it.

                    As for the Nats, pray tell, which of the front bench attended HC today?

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Another bitter angry little Toryboy. How does opposition feel, Davey?

            • Puddles 1.1.1.1.1.2

              I can understand your amusement David but you can’t really be surprised. Labour were opposed to the TPP only because they saw it as a potential vote winner vs real ideological reasons.

              Now they are in power they are just as keen to sign up to this dog of an agreement as National were/are. People may think that Labour are somehow “better” than National but the sooner citizens wake up to the fact that they are simply to sides of the same coin and both owned by the same corporate masters the sooner New Zealand can be reformed into a country for her citizens vs overseas interests.

          • Peter 1.1.1.1.2

            If Labour needs National for it to pass then there is something wrong with it, and cannot be good for the workers.

            • The decrypter 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Yep –but good for the likes of james and his mates,-very good for them all, in its probable, present format.

            • Muttonbird 1.1.1.1.2.2

              Agree. The carve outs some of these other countries have negotiated on worker conditions is appalling. Single party Communist nation Vietnam for instance has negotiated exemptions from worker protection and, as has been mentioned elsewhere today, harasses anti-government activists.

              Still at least they’re not as bad as China.

      • cleangreen 1.1.2

        James Shaw please save us from disaster as I am fullly supportive of your opposition to TPP 11 (or what it is called for now) see this event justn reported from our own scientists in Antartica as we are needing to reverse our use of oil now and use electric trains for freight and passengers and ditch trucks.

        http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2017/11/daunting-antarctic-sea-ice-plummet-could-be-tipping-point.html
        13 November 2017
        Newshub

        ‘Daunting’ Antarctic sea ice plummet could be tipping point
        • 1 hour ago

        Samantha Hayes

        Fullscreen
        Your video will resume in 1 seconds
        Learn More
        The Antarctic sea ice growth in winter and melt in summer is the biggest annual change on the planet. Credits: Newshub.
        A dramatic drop in the amount of sea ice around Antarctica has scientists wondering if the continent has hit a tipping point.
        There has been a record 30 percent decrease in the total amount of sea ice, and this summer it’s disappearing from the Ross Sea at a rate not seen in more than 30 years.
        The rapidly changing conditions are having a major impact on this year’s scientific research at Scott Base, with scientists describing the changes as “unusual”, “unprecedented” and “daunting”.

        One of the affected scientists is Antarctic oceanographer Dr Natalie Robinson, who studies sea ice and what lies beneath it.
        “We had about 200km of sea ice to play with last year, but this year we’re down to about 25-30km, so it’s certainly a very different ball game,” she told Newshub.
        The team’s plan to drill holes through the sea ice has proved impossible this season, with some of their sites now just open water.
        It’s also affected their camping plans. The team usually bring eight modified shipping containers onto the ice to live and work from for several weeks, but Scott Base checked the ice and it was deemed too thin or weak for heavy vehicles to travel on.

        The Antarctic sea ice growth in winter and melt in summer is the biggest annual change on the planet. Dr Robinson describes it as the heartbeat or pulse of Earth, and it affects everybody because it drives global weather.
        “It basically doubles the size of Antarctica each year and where that sea ice sits determines where the storms go, and when and where they might hit New Zealand,” she said.
        But the big changes occurring in Antarctica impact not only weather, but the health of the world’s oceans too, delivering oxygen and nutrients.
        During November the sea ice edge is usually around 100km further north of where it is this year. For it to have broken out this early is a significant change and it’s causing alarms bells to ring.
        “This is my 30th trip into the Southern Ocean and Antarctica,” climate scientist Professor Gary Wilson told Newshub.
        “Of all the visits I’ve made down here, we haven’t seen the sea ice break out as much as it has this early.”

        This graph shows the normal range of sea ice in November since 1978. In 2016, there was a sudden and dramatic drop.
        This year looks to be following suit.
        “We’re seeing the ice shelves break up around the peninsula, we’re seeing sea ice extent change,” Prof Wilson said.
        “It dropped rapidly last year and we’re seeing now early break-up of the sea ice. Many of these things coming together certainly don’t bode well.”
        The sea ice is not only melting ahead of schedule, there’s a lot less of it to begin with. Last year there was 30 percent less ice – a drop of around 1 million square kilometres.
        Climate scientists believe Antarctica may have hit a tipping point.

        “This could be the moment that Antarctica is catching up with the Arctic,” Prof Wilson said.
        “Geologically we know that’s the case that both poles warm equally, but it hasn’t been the case yet with the Antarctic. But maybe this is the moment.”
        There is now less sea ice globally than at any other time since satellite records began in 1978. Last year, when it reached a record low, was also the hottest year on record.
        “The impacts that we’re having on the planet, it wouldn’t surprise me if we are going to some sort of step change in how the Antarctic sea ice system operates,” Dr Robinson said.
        “We’re really in a critical position I think… We’re actually in a race because we know changes are coming, and it’s just whether we’re ahead of the changes to understand them and predict them better.”
        Prof Wilson said the abrupt change is “exciting” but troubling.
        “In one sense it’s exciting we’re starting to see signs, in another sense it’s daunting because when ice melts it tends to melt rapidly,” he said.
        The scientists and staff at Scott Base have been forced to adapt to the changes in sea ice this season. They can’t traverse as far north on it and it needs to be regularly checked for safety when the large vehicles are driving over it.
        At least one expedition has had to be cancelled, while cracks have made some regular routes impassable for vehicles carrying scientific equipment.
        Climate scientists will be watching closely over the next few years to establish whether this is a one-off event, or the moment Antarctica began to succumb to a rapidly warming planet.
        Newshub.

        More From Newshub

  2. Ad 2

    What are the Green numbers on Foreign Affairs and Trade Select Committee?

    That is the next hot point.

    • Wayne 2.1

      Ad,

      Not a hot point at all.

      The government has guaranteed support from National.

      Sure, the people who are opposed will make submissions in opposition, but in reality they will make no difference.

      • weka 2.1.1

        Resistance is futile.

      • marty mars 2.1.2

        Democracy in action eh wayne

        • Stunned Mullet 2.1.2.1

          Yep, fair to note that over 75% of votes counted were for Labour and National so if passed through the house it would definitely be democracy in action from an NZ perspective.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1.1

            Yep.

            So would Labour losing all it’s voters as them agreeing with National is not what Labour voters want which would giving us our first Green government in 2020.

            • Stunned mullet 2.1.2.1.1.1

              You may be right, albeit unlikely that..

              1. All those who voted for Labour were against this agreement

              or

              2. Of all those who voted for Labour and were against the agreement that Labour proceeding with the agreement outweighs all the other issues that cause them to the vote for Labour.

              Also Labour probably have a base of around 20-25% of the potential voter base who’ll vote for them regardless of what they do.

              • 1. 56% voted for change. IIRC, from the polls 54% wanted the TPPA dropped. This would tend to indicate that most of those that voted for labour wanted the TPPA dropped.
                2. I’d say that it’d be quite high as many see a large part of the problems that they want addressed as being caused by the FTAs that both Labour and National have entered into against the publics wishes. At no point in the last thirty years has the majority of people wanted FTAs, the dropping of tariffs and foreigners being able to buy up NZ.

      • tracey 2.1.3

        I think you are right, which is sad cos it means the public submission process is simple a charade. Will full cost/benefit analysis be released before the call for submissions do you think Wayne?.

        • Wayne 2.1.3.1

          Tracey,

          I presume so.

          I would note that on lots of legislation the select committee process is really valuable and can improve legislation.

          But on treaties, especially multilateral treaties, it is really an exercise where everyone gets to parade their views. The submissions can’t change the legislation to implement a treaty, unless the legislation somehow fails to implement the treaty, or does more than required to implement the treaty.

          • tracey 2.1.3.1.1

            Do you mean the legislation already passed? If yes, cannot a new government move to repeal any of that? I realise labour is not going to want to do that but am asking for clarification. I replied to you in yesterday’s thread relating to your statement that parker was talking about stuff already in the agreement. Might be worth your while to take a peek. It is not a long or offensive post.

            • Wayne 2.1.3.1.1.1

              I actually did not recall the Aussies had already made that agreement back in 2016.

              If so it makes it look like that Labour has been spinning to excess. All govts spin to some extent, but how much makes a difference. As soon as I saw Parker on Q & A I knew he was exaggerating, to an extent that was virtually a lie. Not that the things he was claiming weren’t there, but rather that he had negotiated them. They were mostly already there.

              On Select Committees I mean on the bills actually referred to the Select Committees. They do their thing between the first and second readings. And most bills get some changes during the select committee stage. But not treaty bills, they go back unchanged, but with a commentary on the hearings. The Greens will do a minority report on the CPTPP.

              • KJT

                Seems to be a trait of advocates of the neo-liberal religion. Lying!

              • tracey

                But you were always ok with Keys levels though Wayne 😉

                And he made spin, flip flops, poor memory and misleading statements an art.

                Thanks for the committee clarification

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                According to Dick and Spielberg, we need to heed The Minority Report, but tbh I can’t take much more of National.

              • Muttonbird

                How would we know what was already there and what wasn’t? The National government arrogantly draped the entire process in secrecy which was more than half of the reason for opposition. It’s great that Parker is more open and informing the public – to you though he is somehow stealing Nat’s IP???

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.3.2

          I think you are right, which is sad cos it means the public submission process is simple a charade.

          It is and always has been.

          The MPs in a select committee have no compunction to even read the submissions never mind actually taking them into account and so we see select committees passing on policies that the majority of submitters were against (often with good arguments and reality backing them) which then gets passed as legislation by government.

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 2.1.4

        Blinglish did suggest National might be difficult for the sake of being difficult – so maybe they will about-face on the TPP simply to oppose Labour, and save us all!

      • cleangreen 2.1.5

        Wayne,

        Regarding NZF – it is not a clear now NZF will be backing TPP 11 (or whatever they call it for now).

        So do you think Labour are prepared to risk ‘isolating their base and both suppoort poliitical parties’ over this toxic rat swallowing of -TPP 11??

  3. I hope the spokesperson hasn’t gone early on this. Something doesn’t feel right about this announcement to me – hope I’m wrong.

    • tracey 3.1

      Like what? I suspect it is part of Labour and Green pre Coalition announcement discussions.

      • marty mars 3.1.1

        What – are you saying the greens knew about this ages ago?

        • weka 3.1.1.1

          New that they would oppose the TPPA? Yes. New that they would oppose the TPPA with a revised ISDS clause whereby older parts of the agreement could be reactivated if the US join the TPP? Yes.

          • marty mars 3.1.1.1.1

            So they are agreeing to disagree with labour – assuming they are up to speed on everything. So it really now is just a massive pr exercise of distancing and political siloing to minimise any fallout. Not that I have problem with any of that – politics is more like survivor than married at first sight generally imo.

            • weka 3.1.1.1.1.1

              “So it really now is just a massive pr exercise of distancing and political siloing to minimise any fallout.”

              Not sure what you mean there tbh. The Greens have had a very clear position on the TPPA, including in the month before the election. Their position was to not support the TPPA, whereas Labour’s was to renegotiate it. None of that is new. Even on the bits in the public domain in the past day it’s clear that what Labour are doing isn’t supportable by established GP policy.

              I don’t see a massive PR exercise, I see a single, brief interview with Shub and some tweets, designed to let voters know where the GP stand. I’m grateful for that, not least because it’s clear.

              “of distancing and political siloing to minimise any fallout.”

              I don’t see how this is the Greens siloing, they’re just doing normal, routine stuff under MMP and with the kind of agreement they have with Labour. That was the whole point, that the Greens go to be a distinct party and work on issues as they see fit.

              • Fair enough I got a bit carried away thanks for explaining.

                • tracey

                  😉

                  We all have to remember there is a reason (and a prid quo pro) to Greens being outside cabinet. I think this is an example.

                  NZF on the other hand are very very quiet on the new iteration of TPP which is odd considering…

                  ““The government and the TPPA cheerleaders need to remember Japanese farmers are the most subsidised farmers in the world with $US45 billion every year in direct support.

                  “We need a decent free trade deal with Japan. New Zealand First is all for free trade deals that benefit us, but going through the TPPA is not the best approach.

                  “By all means negotiate with Japan, but not with rose-tinted glasses so you can tick off a deal, but come away the loser.

                  “The TPPA was not a free trade deal, but an international corporate protection racket, covering a wide range of laws which challenged our national sovereignty, giving legal preference in a court not of New Zealand’s choosing. That’s just to highlight just some of its defects,” says Mr Peters.” May 2017 http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/nz_foolish_to_sign_up_to_dead_tppa_with_japan

                  How hard he is pushed to provide evidence for why this should not now be the case will be interesting.

                  • Wayne

                    NZF is actually part of the government and their Ministers, being in Cabinet (as opposed to being outside it), are bound by cabinet responsibility.

                    I therefore expect NZF will support the legislation to implement the CPTPP.

                    Also another reason to support is that much of NZF support is in the provinces, and unlike the Greens, they will not want to be seen as implacably opposed to an FTA. The provinces live and die on agricultural trade. NZF, like Labour, will say all their concerns have been met (whether or not that is really true).

                    • tracey

                      And yet Peters was very scathing on it…

                    • cleangreen

                      As much as you are a gracious man Wayne (that I quietly admire) this is wrong; – that NZF is bound by Cabnet resas it apears there is an agreement for both parties to agree to disagree aparently.

                      NZF confirmed this today on Newshub.

                      http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/11/nz-first-support-for-tpp-not-guaranteed.html

                      13 November 2017
                      RadioLIVE
                      LISTEN NOW

                      NZ First support for TPP not guaranteed
                      • 1 hour ago
                      Anna Bracewell-Worrall

                      NZ First leader Winston Peters and Labour leader Jacinda Ardern. Credits: Newshub.
                      Labour may have to pass the CPTPP into law with the support of National and ACT – and without its Government support partners.
                      Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says New Zealand First won’t make a decision on whether it backs the CPTPP (the rebranded Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement) through Parliament, until it’s seen the final deal.
                      Labour already knows it doesn’t have backing from the Greens.
                      Earlier on Monday, the Greens reiterated its decision to vote against the deal, while investor-state dispute settlement mechanisms remained an option.
                      Without support from either Government partner, the CPTPP can still easily pass through into law. National says it does – and will – support the agreement.
                      Speaking from the Philippines, Ms Ardern said, despite New Zealand First having Cabinet responsibility, it also had the ability to agree to disagree.
                      “We won’t have a conversation about where party support will fall, until we have a final agreement,” she said. “I absolutely understand parties in some cases will wait until the final deal’s on the table.”
                      From time to time, Labour, New Zealand First and the Greens will take differing positions, she said.
                      Ms Ardern has had ongoing conversations about the deal with NZ First leader Winston Peters.
                      The TPP agreement initially included the United States, but President Donald Trump withdrew from the agreement, forcing the remaining countries to form a TPP11 agreement.
                      Newshub.

                  • Thanks Tracey – I spose my ramblings give a good opportunity for people to outline the greens policy and ethos as you and weta have done. Thanks again.

                  • veutoviper

                    NZF on the other hand are very very quiet on the new iteration of TPP …

                    Well NZF may be quiet, but Winston Peters has been standing to the left of Jacinda Ardern, with David Parker at the right of her, in numerous video interviews from Vietnam over the last few days on the TPP negotiations – and he has not looked unhappy.

                    In fact from a couple of video interviews from Vietnam and from Manila in the last few hours, I get the impression that Winston and Jacinda are getting on well (and I don’t mean anything untoward) and that he is actually growing to quietly admire her handling of interviews etc from his facial expressions when she is talking.

            • cleangreen 3.1.1.1.1.2

              Marty mars,

              NZF have now said they may not support TPP 11 (or whatever it is called for now)

              They want to see the full completed legal text of the TPP 11 ‘thing’ first.

              This is very wise because only a fool signs sometjhing they have never seen written as proof firstly, – any Lawyer would advise their clients of this, it’s a no-brainer. Common sense policy no less.

        • tracey 3.1.1.2

          That they would oppose the TPP or its new incarnation? Absolutely. They even campaigned on that?

  4. tracey 4

    I am not suprised by tis announcement. Anyone who is does not follow Green party politics. I am pleased to see it in black and white so it cannot be used as a diversion by those saying “what about the Greens”.

    Now we await NZF’s statement again or in support. Peters as I posted in another thread has been pretty scatching of TPP. I suppose the name change will give him an out 😉

    I am looking forward to analysis that might come from the Greens spokesperson who has this backgroound

    “Ghahraman has a Masters degree in International Human Rights Law from the University of Oxford. She has worked as a lawyer for the United Nations in both defence and prosecution with the tribunals in Rwanda, Cambodia and The Hague.[3] She returned to New Zealand in 2012 and worked as a barrister, specialising in human rights law and criminal defence. Ghahraman appeared before the Supreme Court of New Zealand in a case which ultimately led to the police overhauling their rules about undercover operations|

  5. Puckish Rogue 5

    Well they can oppose it all they like but labour and national equals 80 percent of the vote so if it comes down to a vote it’s going to happen…unless national plays silly buggers

    • Ad 5.1

      If I were National on this, I would simply screw Labour again in the Select Committee, in the debates in the House, and in the media.

      If National can shear the Greens off this government enough, the government will become inoperable, the government will fall, and Ardern will then have to go for a snap election. We’re a long way from a Confidence and Supply issue yet, but this is where it starts.

      The objective is not to be “loyal opposition”; the objective is to bring the government down and force a change of government.

      • weka 5.1.1

        How are National shearing the Greens off the government?

        • Ad 5.1.1.1

          They would do this by using any future instance of disagreement by the Greens
          with the remainder of the government to sow division. Wait for the next 48 hours and you will see what this looks like.

          • weka 5.1.1.1.1

            ok, using spin etc (I wondered if you were meaning parliamentary processes somehow).

            • Ad 5.1.1.1.1.1

              Just suspend your judgement until this hits the Foreign Affairs and Trade Select Committee.

              I can understand why Wayne as a trade specialist and previous relevant Cabinet Minister would presume all will sail smoothly in Parliament with National on this.

              I remain skeptical, but look forward to their cooperation.

              • weka

                So the Greens could push for further changes in the select committee? I would expect that as well.

                • Ad

                  Both there and through all bill stages in the House.

                  • weka

                    Yes. Do you mean that National might politicise the select committee process to fuck with Labour even though they’re going to vote for the TPPA?

                    • ianmac

                      There were numerous times when the Maori Party or Act or United Future did not vote with the past Government. A big deal? Nah!

                    • tracey

                      It’s what Ad would do if he were National, and from a principles/values perspective he might as well be 😉

                    • greywarshark

                      tracey
                      It’s useful to have someone who can get their mind around Natinal’s ploys. I think Ad’s RW learnings are useful as a tool to indicate where the fractures might occur, the pressure be placed.

                    • Ad

                      I see it as a reasonable risk.

                      Far better to rehearse the plays before going into Parliamentary battle.

                      And as we have seen, National are in full battle formation from the start.

                    • tracey

                      It is one thing to play devils advocate greywarshark but I have been reading Ad for a long time and it is his Machievellian approach that I am criticising, which is NOT the same as Devils advocate.

      • Wayne 5.1.2

        Ad,

        On this issue National will not cause trouble, except of course to highlight the contradictions within the govt. National is too deeply committed to TPP to “play” with it. That would be hugely brand damaging.

        National knows the govt will not fall on it, since it was obvious all the way along that the Greens would oppose TPP, no matter what changes. Anyway all the hard left opponents will be able to gravitate to the Greens as the one true bearer of the light. The conditions the Greens, through their spokesperson Golriz Ghahraman, put on free trade agreements are such that there will never be any free trade agreements the Greens would agree to. No surprise there.

        • marty mars 5.1.2.1

          It is good to get the hard right perspective ta wayne

        • Ad 5.1.2.2

          That will be a welcome magnanimous sign from National on the government’s first parliamentary test when they fought hard and well against the Deputy Speaker appointment.

          The new government would otherwise be in a very weak position, so I look forward to being shown wrong and seeing National’s full cooperation through all stages on this one.

          • tracey 5.1.2.2.1

            Rather than displaying magnanimousness (is that word?)? won’t it reinforce the notion that labour lied to its members and cant be trusted cos it is introducing something the Nats love?

            • AB 5.1.2.2.1.1

              Magnanimity.
              As in Yeats:
              “Have no business but dispensing round
              Their magnanimities of sound”

              (Comparing his daughter’s thoughts to the song of linnets)

        • tracey 5.1.2.3

          Theoretically Wayne, given NewsHub’s reporting today, National are also climbing down from a position. Afterall their position (and yours) is they did all they could, the team worked bloody hard to get these kinds of changes but just could not get it… or, those changes were not necessary at all and yet… here we are with 11 nations thinking they were (including NZ. You will know as a lawyer if you can get more certainty out of your clauses you should try and not rely on a belief that we won’t be sued). It is how both sides play it that will be interesting.

          Given many in the media covering this did not even pick up that Parker’s statement yesterday about Aussie and ISDS was not new, their part as a purveyor of information rather than regurgitation of press rleases will also be interesting.

        • Matthew Whitehead 5.1.2.4

          Actually, the Greens have said all along that they could be persuaded to support the TPP if the contentious parts, like the current style of ISDS, the harmful intellectual property provisions, (which go well beyond just an extension of copyright to life + 70 years from the current, too high life + 50) and so on, were removed from the deal.

          The new CPATPP proposal gets us like 10% further to that goal but it’s not enough.

          You can claim reasonably that what the Greens wanted would never be agreed to, but the party isn’t actually against the deal categorically like you imply. I’d rather see it fail than pass even in the form currently agreed, as would the Green Party, (especially as they’re pulling the trick of suspending the worst parts instead of removing them so they can simply reactivate them if a more globally-minded/pro-corporate President comes to power next after Trump. If the US wants into the CPATPP, they should have to negotiate from scratch rather than using this “suspend the bad parts” nonsense to avoid having to pass laws again on it in the future) but that’s not the same thing as it being “obvious all the way along that the Greens would oppose TPP.”

          The Greens support fair trade deals. The problem is that the CPATPP proposal isn’t even a trade deal as-is, let alone fair: it’s a multinational corporate rights deal.

          • Enough is Enough 5.1.2.4.1

            Yep

            The Green Party and Labour Party held similar positions prior to the election essentially opposing the same bits and saying they could not support it for that reason.

            The fact that the Green Party is still opposing it clearly demonstrates that the Treaty is essentially the same, and Labour’s pre-election opposition was disingenuous cynical politics.

            • Matthew Whitehead 5.1.2.4.1.1

              I’d actually argue that taken as a whole, this is not “essentially the same.” The suspension of the intellectual property chapter is a giant leap forward in the defacto immediate impact of this proposed CPATPP revision, but the fact it’s done through suspension means that that progress is insecure, because the terrible policies insisted upon by the USA can be reactivated at any time, presumably to allow their re-entry into the deal.

              Where it is essentially the same is the critical area: no meaningful progress has been made on the ISDS mechanism, they’re just saying “look, we agreed with Australia we won’t use that mechanism with each other” and then moved the goalposts aftewards and claimed they’d got 80% of what they wanted because right now 80% of our trade is with aussie. That’s spinning so hard a tyre would be envious.

              • cleangreen

                100% Matthew.

                Goood call there.

                What is disturbing is that o-one has seen any text of ISDS or the changes/alterations ‘changed’ for a deal yet so this is not transparency promised at all.
                It is as if we have to take Labour only at their word like we have for nine years?

                Where is the trust to be built on as this TP 11 (or whatever is is called for now) as we know it is binding on all 11 to be enforced for 30+ yrs and what government lasts for that long?

                • Matthew Whitehead

                  Well, I understand why we haven’t seen any text yet: because it’s only an agreement in principle and there’s still outstanding issues to resolve. Unknown if they’ll write a draft on the new revision now or wait until those four issues are dealt with, but either way I wouldn’t have expected them to have a draft agreement penned and released quite so quickly.

                  (I can understand why people are already calling for the text though- there’s been so much policy laundering on this rubbish that nobody wants them to do that stuff again. Not only should they release the text, they should release notes telling us who asked for what)

                  It’s called the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership now, which some media have been acronyming to CPTPP, but I’ve maintained the A as per TPPA to make it the CPATPP.

                  Going back to the Australia thing again- it’s even worse than that, because if any of that trade coming through australia is from a company that has offices in any other TPP signatory, they can avoid this new side-letter by simply rehoming to their other country and then suing us under the ISDS. So this limited ISDS carveout with Australia doesn’t necessarily even protect us from Australian multinationals- in fact, Australia had exactly this happen to them when Phillip Morris International rehomed to Signapore to sue them under that FTA agreement for their plain packaging law on cigarettes.

                  • cleangreen

                    Yes Matthew i get that but many secretive facets to this setup are toxic to us ‘outsiders’ wile unsetling to say the least.

                    You wrote; “Unknown if they’ll write a draft on the new revision now or wait until those four issues are dealt with,”

                    1/ we are not consulted on these issues, or privy to anything?
                    2/where s jacinda’s promise of “transparency”
                    3/ Where do “we have a voice & will be heard” as promised by jacinda?

          • greywarshark 5.1.2.4.2

            Thanks Matthew W
            It would be so hard to get through the thickets of the TPP original document, its changes, their meaning to us, now and in the future, the effect on not having the USA, the value to us of opening up anything we may still have left to explore in the bag of gizmos left to us, that not many of us will have read it all and will rely on seemingly honest brokers like yourself!

            What are we to do? We are so little, and the others are so big. This is explained as the very reason we have to be in. So it seems we are stuffed if we go in and we starve if we stay out, that’s the way it is presented to us.

            I think we are a bunch of people being gamed and humoured so that we feel important. We are ignorant of how tiny we are and how precarious we have made our economic position, and how high our expectations of personal wealth are in a completely irrational belief that a small city isolated from the world can enjoy the world’s wonders.

            With that image of being an advanced country blinding us, we have overlooked the fact that the country is being directed back to our colonial past when we all relied on dairy and sheep and primary produce. Our new big thing, our tourism resource is being put at risk to do this, and yet primary only produces about 6% of our GDP. Only a small fraction, and the cost to keep exporting the volume of this dried milk is great and only looks good when one ignores all he externalities.

            We have a hostile takeover of the country aided by quisling politicians and the Greens are trying to do much with the support of many of those who still have enquiring minds. But almost half the country don’t want to feel the discomfort of the truth. They can’t handle it.

            A Treasury report tends to inflate the importance of primary sector and confuse when referring to the size of exports compared to financial return. I have attempted to give a quick summary of statements and relevant figures:
            ‘Given the importance of the primary sector to the economy….'[p7/52]

            ‘Primary commodities account for more than half of total goods exports while exports of goods and services represent around one-third of real expenditure GDP. ‘[p11/52]

            In a chart for 2015 Table 7 – Primary industries are 7.9% of GDP, Goods-producing industries are 19%, and Service Industries 65.6%. [p14/52]

            In Figure 2 Piechart, the importance of Housing, rental shows in its greater proportion to Agriculture, forestry and fishing [p15/52]

            ‘The agricultural, horticultural, forestry, mining and fishing
            industries play a fundamental role in New Zealand’s economy,
            particularly in the export sector.
            Overall, the primary sector directly accounts for around 6% of real GDP and contributes just over half of New Zealand’s total export earnings.’ [p17/52]
            ‘Dairy farming [45.0] is the predominant agricultural activity, followed by beef [12.4] and sheep [meat 10.3, wool 3.0] farming and horticulture’
            [p17/52]

            External Sector
            External trade is of fundamental importance to New Zealand.
            Primary sector-based exports and commodities are important
            sources of the country’s export receipts, while exports of
            services and manufactured products also provide a significant
            contribution.'[p25/52]

            [A key feature of New Zealand’s current account deficit is the large
            deficit on the primary income balance, reflecting New Zealand’s
            net international investment position which stood at -61.9% of
            GDP in the year to September 2015.]
            [p30/52]
            http://www.treasury.govt.nz/economy/overview/2016/nzefo-16.pdf

            (I included the last sentence referring to NZ international investment which someone more proficient may interpret for me and others.

            But I again note the importance laid on the earnings from primary production, when it is only a small percentage of the total GDP. And that dairy is less than half of that small percentage of primary export earnings.)

            • Matthew Whitehead 5.1.2.4.2.1

              I was planning on doing an analysis of the highlights of both the best and worst parts of the most current available TPPA text, (there are good bits, but they’re mostly symbolic, or they involve things like “protect intellectual property in countries with loose laws” etc…) but I’m not sure I can honestly condense it enough for people to find it helpful. The suspended bits are great bits to be rid of, (the IP clauses were some of the most troubling to me, it basically brought all TPP12 signatories halfway to the US copyright law) but the problem is that they’re suspended, not gone.

              I suspect there’s no way the trade deal is worth saddling ourself with the ISDS, even the reduced one Labour piggybacked onto Vietnam’s requests for.

    • weka 5.2

      It’s a little thing called values PR. Also, if the Greens vote against it means Labour early in its first term has to rely on National to pass an important piece of legislation. That’s not a problem per se, it’s MMP after all, but it’s not a good look. Will be interesting to see what NZF do.

      It’s also the longer game for the next election.

    • Enough is Enough 5.3

      National will play silly buggers, like they did with Mallard.

      They will support this through the house but it will come at a cost.

      • marty mars 5.3.1

        Yep the gnats led by their great brainboxes bennett and bridges will try to score points. That in itself will provide many laughs. But playing silly tuggers is automatic when you are silly tuggers so go you good things gnats.

      • Matthew Whitehead 5.3.2

        Actually, I’m going to disagree slightly.

        I think National want the TPP in any form so much that they’ll support this without game playing, all they’ll do is try to claim victory on it for themselves, and claim that Labour messed up the process.

      • cleangreen 5.3.3

        Agreed EIE.

  6. ankerawshark 6

    Ok, I was wrong. Said Greens would support the TPP (or whatever it is now called) on a thread yesterday. Said I might be wrong and so I was.

  7. Enough is Enough 7

    Thank you Green Party.

    Their current position is not exactly a surprise as it is entirely consistent with their pre-election policy. This is what a principled party does.

    Labour watch and learn. You have time and the opportunity to joins the Green Party and walk away entirely from the mess.

    Do not spin this as some kind of good thing for us after all your opposition. we are not that stupid, we can read and we will know whether you have sold us down the river.

    • The Chairman 7.1

      “We can read and we will know whether you have sold us down the river.”

      As long as we forgive them by next election, I don’t think Labour care.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.1

        When National was re-elected in 2011 they didn’t waste much time transferring public assets to private ownership. In the 2014 election campaign, PM Key promised no more sales of public assets, then continued on as before but didn’t stay to face the music.

        Labour will burn some popular support if the CPATPP is signed on their watch, and if so I hope they can recoup that support by 2020.

    • tracey 7.2

      and when Nats support labour it will paint labour as a liar and not the new great hope they wanted to be… if only for now. BUT they will have to scrub that stain off first.

  8. Richard Christie 8

    If NZF come out with a similar reiteration of position (in particular over their stated allergy toward ISDS) where would that leave Labour?

    So early in the term Labour would be suicidal to lie down with National in opposition to the views of their coalition and C&S partners (as well as the viewpoint of a sizeable proportion of the Labour party’s base.

    • Ad 8.1

      That would be testing whether NZF are bound by Cabinet collective responsibility.

      If NZF split from Labour of CPTPP without rupturing Cabinet, it would also demonstrate to NZF and the Greens that Labour can simply sideline them both by going with National on a vote-by-vote basis. Principles don’t keep you warm at night.

      • tracey 8.1.1

        They do keep you warm at night and you do take them shopping with you.

        • Ad 8.1.1.1

          Principles are stars.
          Partners keep you warm at night.

          • tracey 8.1.1.1.1

            non principled partners wont keep you warm at night, partners that aren’t home when you go to sleep won’t keep you warm at night, a partner that stays way on the edge of the bed doesn’t keep you warm at night. Keep rolling out your pseudo poetry. I know you and I will not agree because in the end there is the merest hair difference between you and National. As long as you have the Treasury benches you have made it clear you don’t care the price.

            • cleangreen 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Bloody well said Tracey.

              I will always vote for NZF as they have a clear policy against TPP as greens do.

              National are trying to figure how to fracture NZF/Greens on this one but wont kill their allegance to disagree with TPP.

              That is the stain labour will altermately bear over this if they sign TPP.

              Remeber it was jacinda at the Auckland town hall Pre-election that her Labour government will be ‘inclussive’ and that eveyone will have a voice and be heard’
              Then jacinnda put this into a referedum then!!!!!

      • Richard Christie 8.1.2

        it would also demonstrate to NZF and the Greens that Labour can simply sideline them both by going with National on a vote-by-vote basis. Principles don’t keep you warm at night.

        And it would spell the end of Labour as a political force, as the overwhelming majority of its base would regard such accommodation with National an anathema.

        So, as usual recently, the power to set the agenda rests with Peters.

        • Ross 8.1.2.1

          I don’t agree Richard. Parties can hop into bed with each other over a single issue. Remember the anti-smacking bill? Did that dent National’s support?

          • Richard Christie 8.1.2.1.1

            National members were granted a conscience vote on the anti-smacking bill, wasn’t a case of parties hopping into bed with each other.

    • tracey 8.2

      Labour may paint it as them being bi-partisan, to achieve what is |best” for NZ.

      Peters will find a way to distance himself from the following, the name change of the agreement might help…

      http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/nz_foolish_to_sign_up_to_dead_tppa_with_japan

  9. Puckish Rogue 9

    Its a win-win for National no matter what happens. Support the TPPA (or whatever its called now)and National get to say we got it through even if we’re not in power.

    Vote against it and add another brick to the support being built with the Greens while embarrassing Labour

    Personally I want them to vote for it

    • McFlock 9.1

      still after the blue-green fantasy, eh?

      The nats might be able to make some hay, but it’s up to the greens and nz1 as to whether this is a coalition-breaker. And if it is, I’d be surprised if Labour go through with it – in fact, I’d expect the coalition partners to have had a fair idea of what the result could be well before the talks fell through.

      • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1

        I’m not suggesting blue-green is going to happen anytime soon but if it is going to happen it has to start sometime, I mean there’s this and the fishing companies seem to be going all right at the moment at the expense of sanctuaries…

        • McFlock 9.1.1.1

          Whatever dream gives you comfort. You guys need friends…

          • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1.1.1

            So you scoff at the idea of blue-green then say national need friends…

            • McFlock 9.1.1.1.1.1

              The Greens are out of the nats’ league, unless the nats stop being nats.

            • weka 9.1.1.1.1.2

              if the Greens go with National they’ll end up with no friends too, which I assume is the point of RWers pining for it.

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                “He’s not dead, he’s just pining for the fjords.”; that and mining the conservation estate.

              • GregJ

                More likely to try and split off sufficient of the (imaginary?) right of the Greens so neither wing gets over the 5% threshold and the core Green vote – say 7% gets no representation in Parliament. National’s whole long term strategy appears to be based on sitting on 45-46% and drive the smaller parties under the threshold so they can manipulate the Webster/Sainte-Laguë method to achieve a single Party parliamentary majority.

        • tracey 9.1.1.2

          If Greens had gone with Nats, National would not have the support of its only partner on this issue

    • Puck if the gnats vote with labour, which is likely, it will be the gnats which will be the big losers. Labour will get the deal and the gnats will be laughed at for supporting them. Over time the gnat aspect of the deal will be forgotten. Frankly the gnats cannot win with this – they are supporting labour lol what a joke of a party the gnats are.

  10. SpaceMonkey 10

    Good. This is what a principled party does and why the Greens have my support.

  11. greywarshark 11

    But playing it for the long game must also be in the mix. It’s the old thing that clever politicians can walk and chew gum at the same time, and change direction without falling over.

  12. Andre 12

    Am I the only one that mentally sees CRAPT every time the new abbreviation appears in writing?

  13. Sparky 13

    Well that’s something I suppose. I personally feel they should have steered clear of Labour from the get go. The Greens lost my vote to NZF in good part because of their decision to partner with them.

    • weka 13.1

      that worked out well didn’t it.

    • cleangreen 13.2

      Me to sparky. I thought we stood more chance there for change. I voted NZF party and labour MP.

      Our family may vote different next time as I like James Shaw now since he stood against the TPP 11 (or whatever it is called for now) today as we need to stand against this corporate thugery at alll costs here as it will bind us for 30yrs + if it is signed off, then I will die in 10yrs and leave my kids and grandkids in corporate bondage which I will be haunted in my grave with.

      • weka 13.2.1

        “Me to sparky.”

        Ok, you stopped voting Green, because of the MoU with Labour, and you voted NZF who are now in an actual formal coalition with Labour?

        Shaw has been standing against the TPPA for his 3 years in parliament (and I’m pretty sure long before that).

  14. cleangreen 14

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/11/nz-first-support-for-tpp-not-guaranteed.html

    Interesting NZF may jump ship also on TPP (or what else it is called for now)

    • Wayne 14.1

      Cleangreen,

      If that is true, that will cause coalition trouble, and so it should. A big policy where Labour is entirely dependent on National. That did happen with the China FTA, but in that case NZF was not formally in coalition, and it was near the end for Labour.

      Because this is at the beginning of the govt it will be remembered. A fine start to the coalition indeed. Except in this instance it is a different coalition than is formally the case. Effectively a grand coalition.

      Labour may as well ditch NZF and the Greens now and just do a coalition with National. That way it covers 80% of all those who voted.

      Jacinda can be PM for 18 months and Bill for 18 months. It would certainly be a better govt than the current one. I guarantee that votes would never be lost, since they would only do things they both agree on. Which in fact would be a huge amount. The country would get more houses, more green policy, and more effort on child poverty. Immigration would not be wound back nearly as much so there would be people to actually build the houses.

      It works for Germany. They regularly have grand coalitions. Since we adopted MMP from Germany, we might as well adopt the way they do things over there!

      • Richard Christie 14.1.1

        It will only cause the coalition trouble if Labour fall in with National and vote against both their C&S partner and coalition partner.

        Labour’s support will then implode and National will have a field day in opposition, which is why the rw trolls are suggesting that the grand coalition is a viable option.

      • Labour may as well ditch NZF and the Greens now and just do a coalition with National. That way it covers 80% of all those who voted.

        Except that some 56% voted for change and Labour going with National would not bring about the change that they wanted.

        And there’s a high probability that one of the changes that they voted for was the dumping of the TPPA.

  15. Wayne 15

    Draco,

    Well, it is all dependent on Winston (yet again). Is he going to decide whether Labour allowed to do TPP?

    Obviously my suggestion was tongue in cheek. But it has a serious side to it. The TPP does illustrate that grand coalitions are possible. And in many circumstances would be better for New Zealand. The current situation being a case in point.

    If grand coalitions are work well enough in Germany, why not New Zealand?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      Because the National Party is utterly untrustworthy, tells too many lies, sells access to ministers and trades legislative favours for “lucrative business opportunities”.

      That’s not an opinion; those really are the reasons no-one wants to be in government with you.

      Plus, your breath smells of dead rats.

  16. Wayne 16

    Well, all I can say is that Jacinda is dependent on National votes on one of her first major initiatives.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1

      That’s how MMP works.

      Surely you understand this by now. After all, it’s another reason you’re not in government anymore.

  17. Macro 17

    James S: ” It that a turd you’re rubbing David?”

    David P: “Yes but look how shiny it is!”

    The TPPA was called by Jacinda a “dog”. Now it has a new shiny name and is “Comprehensive and Progressive” I guess it is now a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

  18. RRM 18

    [deleted]

    I’ll do it if nobody else is keen.

    But I kinda feel like someone from the left should do it, because… consistency… principles…

    [too much weird hatred in that comment to parse, so I’ll just suggest you mind your manners – weka]

    • RRM 18.1

      Really, weka?

      Here’s a post by The Standard CELEBRATING that dildo incident, back when National and Joyce were advancing that same trade deal that Labour are now advancing..

      Spare a thought for Steven Joyce

      And now suddenly you’re all testy about it.

      Do your feet get sore from dancing on the head of a pin?

      [lprent: We get testy when idiots:-

      1. Think that “The Standard” has a mind.
      2. Think that the authors or commenters here think the same.
      3. Repeatably do it despite being told to read the policy.
      4. But since you like testy, and I’m a kind soul who likes to grant people their wishes….
      5. Banned for 6 months.

      Fuck off and finger your brain elsewhere. We can’t be bothered with the grunting you seem to think indicates thought. ]

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    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz The growth of the human population over the last 70 ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • The disappearing Women …
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In her excellent oral submission to the Abortion reform select committee on 31st October on behalf of Otago University’s Department of Public Health, historian and public health researcher Hera Cook stated: “We would ask that the committee not use the term ‘pregnant persons’ and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • “A Passage to India”: enduring art in changing times
    by Don Franks In 1957, E M Forster wrote, of his greatest work: “The India described in ‘A Passage to India’ no longer exists either politically or socially. Change had begun even at the time the book was published ( 1924) and during the following quarter of a century it ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Contemptuous
    The Referendums Framework Bill was due back from select committee today. But there's no report on it. Instead, the bill has been bounced back to the House under Standing order 29593) because the Committee didn't bother to produce one. They probably tried. But given the membership of the committee (which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Zero Carbon: It’s not just a good idea, it’s the law
    Two years into New Zealand’s Labour-led government, the long-delayed Zero Carbon Bill became law on 7 November. Passed essentially unanimously, the lengthy public debates and political manoeuvring faded away until the final passage was even anticlimactic: Flipping through the @nzstuff @DomPost I was starting to wonder if I’d dreamt ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    7 days ago
  • Climate Change: What happens next?
    Now the Zero Carbon Bill is law, what's next? Obviously, the ETS changes currently before select committee are going to be the next battleground. But we're also going to get a good idea of where we're going, and if the progress the Zero Carbon Act promises is good enough, during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Climate change will fuel bush fires
    Grant Pearce The effects of the current Australian bushfires in New South Wales and Queensland (and also again in California) are devastating and far-reaching. To date, the fires have resulted in several lives being lost and many homes and properties destroyed. Here in New Zealand, the impacts have been only ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    7 days ago
  • Participation rates
    A passing comment in a post the other day about the labour force participation rates of older people prompted me to pull down the fuller data and see what we could see about various participation rates over the decades since the HLFS began in 1986.   As it happens, the ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Reddell
    1 week ago
  • Not So Much “OK Boomer” As “OK Ruling Class”.
    Distract And Divert: The rise of what we have come to call “Identity Politics” represents the ideological manifestation of the ruling class’s objective need to destroy class politics, and of the middle-class’s subjective need to justify their participation in the process.THE RELIEF of the ruling class can only be imagined. ...
    1 week ago
  • Asking for it …
    "I saw a newspaper picture,From the political campaignA woman was kissing a child,Who was obviously in pain.She spills with compassion,As that young child'sFace in her hands she gripsCan you imagine all that greed and avariceComing down on that child's lips?" ...
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand’s Poor Pandemic Preparedness According to the Global Health Security Index
    Dr Matt Boyd, Prof Michael Baker, Prof Nick Wilson The Global Health Security Index which considers pandemic threats has just been published. Unfortunately, NZ scores approximately half marks (54/100), coming in 35th in the world rankings – far behind Australia. This poor result suggests that the NZ Government needs to ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Thank Winston
    The Zero Carbon Act is inadequate, with a weak methane target designed to give farmers a free ride. But it turns out it could have been worse: Climate Change Minister James Shaw was so desperate to get National on board, he wanted to gut that target, and leave it in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Illicit markets and Bali Booze
    The Herald reprints an Australian story on a couple of tragic deaths in Bali from drinking cocktails that had methanol in them.  The story argues that methanol is likely the result of home distillation. But what the young tourists were experiencing was far from a hangover. They’d consumed a toxic cocktail ...
    SciBlogsBy Eric Crampton
    1 week ago
  • This is not what armed police are for
    Last month, the police announced a trial of specialist roaming armed units, which would drive round (poor, brown) areas in armoured SUVs, armed to the teeth. When they announced the trial, they told us it was about having armed police "ready to attend major incidents at any time if needed". ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Spain’s failed electoral gamble
    Spain went to the polls today in the second elections this year, after the Socialists (who had come to power in a confidence vote, then gone to the polls in April) rejected the offer of a coalition with the left-wing PoDemos, and instead decided to gamble n a better outcome ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The astroturf party
    National has finally rolled out its "BlueGreen" astroturf party, fronted by an array of former nats and people who were dumped by the Greens for not being Green enough. Its initial pitch is described by Stuff as "very business-friendly", and its priorities are what you'd expect: conservation, predator-free funding, a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • How to cheat at university
    A couple of days ago I attended (and spoke at) the University of Waikato’s “LearnFest” event. There were lots of talks and sessions on very diverse aspects of teaching, mostly at tertiary level. One was by Myra Williamson from Te Piringa Faculty of Law here at Waikato, on Contract Cheating ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    1 week ago
  • How NZ was put on world maps using a transit of Mercury
    There will be a transit of Mercury – the planet Mercury will pass across the face of the Sun – taking place at sunrise in New Zealand on Tuesday, 12th November. It was by observing such an event 250 years ago that James Cook and his scientist colleagues were able ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Georgina Beyer: We need to be able to talk without being offended
    Since becoming the world’s first openly transexual mayor and member of parliament, Georgina Beyer has been recognised as a trailblazer for trans rights. Daphna Whitmore talks with her about where she sees the current trans movement We start out talking about legislation the government put on hold that would have ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The anti-fluoride brigade won’t be erecting billboards about this study
    If FFNZ really put their faith in “Top Medical Journals” they would now be amending their billboards to recognise new research results. Image from FFNZ but updated to agree with the latest research. ...
    1 week ago
  • Chosen To Rule? What Sort Of Christian Is Chris Luxon?
    National Messiah? Chris Luxon identifies himself as an evangelical Christian. If he is genuine in this self-characterisation, then he will take every opportunity his public office provides to proselytise on behalf of his faith. He will also feel obliged to bear witness against beliefs and practices he believes to be ...
    1 week ago
  • War of the worms
    I'm going to make a Reckless Prediction™ that the Tories have 'topped out' in the 'poll of polls' / Britain Elects multipoll tracker at about 38%, and in the next week we will start to see Labour creep up on them.In fact, we might just be seeing the start of ...
    1 week ago
  • Marvelly shows us how to be a feminist without feminism
    by The Council of Disobedient Women Lizzie Marvelly: “I may have missed this… has @afterellen gone all terf-y? Or am I reading something incorrectly? “ https://twitter.com/LizzieMarvelly/status/1191840059105742849 After Ellen is a lesbian website that is unashamedly pro-lesbian, as you’d expect. So why is Ms Marvelly so bothered about lesbians having their ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Out of the past – Tories to revive racist laws from the 16th century
    Did you know there once was a time when it was illegal to be a gypsy (aka Romani) in Britain?That was between 1530, when the Egyptians Act was passed, and 1856, when it was repealed.Amongst other things, the act forbade the entry of 'Egyptians' into England, ordered those already there ...
    1 week ago
  • 1000 of these now
    Some days I sit and think, “what will I write…?” What do you say when you get to 1000 posts? Maybe you just start where you are, diverge to where this all began, then offer a collection of reader’s favourite posts, and a few of your own? (And throw in ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    1 week ago
  • Has Shane Jones Just Saved NZ First?
    Counter-Puncher: The “activists” and “radicals” (his own words) from the Indian community who took such strong exception to Shane Jones’ remarks about Immigration NZ’s treatment of arranged marriages, may end up bitterly regretting their intervention. Jones is not the sort of person who turns the other cheek to his critics.SHANE ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: As predicted
    Yesterday, when National voted for the Zero Carbon Bill, I predicted they'd gut it the moment they regained power, just as they had done to the ETS. And indeed, they have explicitly promised to do exactly that within their first hundred days in office. What would their amendments do? Abandon ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Let this never be forgot
    In the spirit of Remember, remember the fifth of November, let's keep this in mind FOREVER.
    Oh dear. Extraordinary interview on PM with Andrew Bridgen and @EvanHD just now. Bridgen was defending Jacob Rees Mogg’s Grenfell comments. Evan asked him if JRM had meant to say he would have left ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Too Late To Change Capitalism’s Flightpath?
    Collision Course? In conditions of ideological white-out, the international bankers’ “Woop-Woop! Pull Up!” warning may have come too late to save global capitalism.WHAT DOES IT MEAN when international bankers are more willing to embrace radical solutions than our politicians and their electors? At both the International Monetary Fund and the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Whooping cough vaccine works well despite its imperfections
    Pertussis (whooping cough) is a conundrum. It is a disease that was described hundreds of years ago and the bacteria that causes it (Bordetella pertussis) isolated in 1906. We have had vaccines for about 80 years but this disease is defiant in the face of human immunity. I wanted to ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Passed
    The Zero Carbon Bill has just passed its third reading, uanimously. In the end, National supported it - but we all know they'll turn around and gut it the moment they regain power. Meanwhile, I guess ACT's David Seymour didn't even bother to show up. I am on record as ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Retailing of vaping products – New NZ Research
    Dr Lindsay Robertson, Dr Jerram Bateman, Professor Janet Hoek Members of the public health community hold divergent views on how access to vaping products or electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) products should be arranged. Some believe ENDS should be as widely available as smoked tobacco and argue for liberal ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 weeks ago
  • Justice for Bomber
    When the Police were trying to cover up for the National Party over Dirty Politics, they went all-in with their abuses of power. They illegally search Nicky Hager's house, violating his journalistic privilege and invading his privacy. They unlawfully acquired Hager's bank records. They did the same to left-wing blogger ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Britain’s climate tyranny was unlawful
    Last month, in response to a wave of protests by Extinction Rebellion, the British government purported to ban their protests from the whole of London. It was a significant interference with the freedoms of expression and assembly, and another sign of the country's decline into tyranny. But now, a court ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • More crime from the spies
    Last year, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security reported on significant problems with the intelligence warrant system. While they were unwilling to declare any warrant "irregular" (meaning unlawful) due to the recent law change, they were also not willing to give the system a clean bill of health. Now, they've ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Vaccination, compulsion, and paternalism for the lower orders
    The National Party has come out in support of encouraging greater vaccination uptake. But it sure isn’t the way I’d do it. National’s suggested docking the benefits of those on benefit whose kids aren’t keeping up with their vaccinations. Some in National have suggested extending that to payments under Working ...
    SciBlogsBy Eric Crampton
    2 weeks ago
  • Global Protests Rage On: But Slogans Are Not Plans.
    Feeding The Flames: It is simply not enough to demand an end to “corruption”, or “inequality”, or the overbearing influence of the authorities in Beijing. These are just “lowest common denominator” demands: the sort of slogans that pull people onto the streets. They are not a plan.WHERE’S THE PLAN? Across ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 11,000 employed under Labour
    The labour market statistics have been released, and unemployment has risen to 4.2%. There are 115,000 unemployed - 11,000 fewer than when Labour took office. In that time the minimum wage has gone up by $2 an hour, which shows that the right's fears about increases causing unemployment are simply ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Boycott this democratic fraud
    The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has called for submissions on Andrew Little's tyrannical Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill. Normally I encourage participation in the democratic process. I am not doing so in this case. Instead, I encourage all of you to boycott this submissions process, and to post ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Why Mars is cold despite an atmosphere of mostly carbon dioxide
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz If tiny concentrations of carbon dioxide can hold enough heat ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Ban private jets
    Aviation is one of the fastest growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions, and within it, one of the fastest sources is elite travel: billionaires flitting around the world in their private jets, spewing excessive pollution into the atmosphere just so they can avoid mixing with us dirty peasants. But in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Untold Suffering
    That's what we face if we don't stop climate change, according to a warning from 11,000 scientists:The world’s people face “untold suffering due to the climate crisis” unless there are major transformations to global society, according to a stark warning from more than 11,000 scientists. “We declare clearly and unequivocally ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The left and violent misogyny
    by Phil Duncan Here’s just a few of the kind of threats issued day in and day out against gender-critical women – feminists, marxists, etc – overwhelmingly by MEN (albeit men identifying as women). “Kill all Terfs”. “Shoot a Terf today”. “All terfs deserve to be shot in the head”. ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and the iPhone
    This is the third of the synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016). The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Unlike the humble cup of coffee and t-shirt that we looked at in ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The freshwater mussel housing crisis: eviction by invasive weeds?
    Tom Moore Traditionally a food source and cutting tool, freshwater mussels/kākahi are now widely valued as water filters that help clean our waterbodies and maintain ecosystem health throughout Aotearoa. The improvement they provide in water quality can make it easier for other animals to live in streams and rivers, as ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Back it up Luxon: endorsing the destructive past is not actually the way forward
    And to think he gave all the potential goodwill away with that moronic, cult-like statement (repeated ad nauseam by many National hardliners) that Key is quite simply “the greatest PM we ever had”… Installation complete: this was nothing ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago

  • Wayne Brown hits back at critics: Ports of Auckland has to move
    The chairman of the Upper North Island Supply Chain Strategy (UNISCS) working group, Wayne Brown, has hit back at critics of his group’s recommendations to relocate the Ports of Auckland cargo operations to Whangarei’s deepwater port of Northport. The working group's recommendation to close Auckland waterfront to all but cruise ...
    19 hours ago
  • Week That Was: Supporting our schools
    We're setting our young people up for success, investing in education around the country.  ...
    1 day ago
  • Kiwis to have their say on End of Life Choice
    Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First backs the public to decide on the End of Life Choice Bill via a referendum at the 2020 General Election. The Bill, with New Zealand First’s referendum provision incorporated, passed its final reading in Parliament this evening. New Zealand First Spokesperson for ...
    5 days ago
  • Addressing miscarriages of justice
    Darroch Ball, Spokesperson for Justice New Zealand First is proud that a key Coalition Agreement commitment which will provide for a more transparent and effective criminal justice system has been realised. Legislation to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission, an independent body focused on identifying and responding to possible miscarriages of ...
    6 days ago
  • Week That Was: Historic action on climate change
    "Today we have made a choice that will leave a legacy... I hope that means that future generations will see that we, in New Zealand, were on the right side of history." - Jacinda Ardern, Third Reading of the Zero Carbon Bill ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Tax-free deployments for Kiwi troops
    Darroch Ball, New Zealand First List MP A Member’s bill has been proposed that would provide income tax exemptions for all New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel while on operational deployment overseas. The Income Tax (Exemption for Salary or Wages of NZDF Members on Active Deployment) Amendment Bill proposed by New Zealand First ...
    2 weeks ago
  • A balanced Zero Carbon Bill passed
    Rt Hon Winston Peters, New Zealand First Leader New Zealand First is proud to have brought common sense to the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill, which passed its final reading in Parliament today. Party Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters says months of hard work went into negotiating a balanced ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Paramedics’ status to be recognised
    Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First has listened to calls to recognise paramedics as registered health professionals under the Health Practitioners’ Competence Assurance Act (the Act). Today, the Coalition Government announced plans for paramedics to be registered as health practitioners under the Act, and the establishment of a ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Week That Was: 2,000 teachers in two years
    We began the week by commemorating the New Zealand Wars and celebrating a major increase in the number of teachers. Then, we were busy supporting offenders into work and getting our rail back on track after years of underinvestment. And that's just the start! ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Winning an election one conversation at a time
    In October I was sworn in as the Mayor of Lower Hutt. It’s the privilege of my life to serve Hutt people as their Mayor. There is something really special to be able to serve the community where I was raised, and where I live.   ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Closer cooperation with Korean horse racing industry
    Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister for Racing Racing Minister Winston Peters met with Korea Racing Authority Chairperson Nak Soon Kim in Seoul today to discuss closer cooperation between the New Zealand and Korean horse racing industries. As part of the visit to the Seoul Racecourse, Mr Peters witnessed ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Otago to lead digital creativity
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing $10 million to establish Otago as the centre of New Zealand’s creative digital industry over the next ten years, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “The initiative will bring us closer to the vision of ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Young Otago students encouraged to take on forestry careers
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF)’s skills and employment programme will help young Otago people into long-term forestry careers, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. Te Ara Mahi will invest $63,000 in the 2020 school year to support eight 17 and 18 ...
    3 weeks ago
  • PGF backing Dunedin’s waterfront ambitions
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) will support local plans to revitalise and stimulate economic development opportunities in Otago, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. The four Regional Economic Development Ministers have approved an in-principle investment of $19.9 million towards the region’s ...
    3 weeks ago
  • M. Bovis eradication progress welcomed
    Mark Patterson, Spokesperson for Primary Industries New Zealand First is pleased to have received the Technical Advisory Group (TAG) report on the Coalition Government’s Mycoplasma bovis eradication efforts, which shows significant progress in the fight against the disease. New Zealand First Spokesperson for Primary Industries, Mark Patterson, says the report’s findings ...
    3 weeks ago
  • PGF boosts Otago’s engineering and manufacturing sector
    Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development Hon David Parker, Minister for Trade and Export Growth The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing to support economic growth opportunities for Otago’s engineering and manufacturing sectors, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones and Trade and Export Minister David Parker announced today. Almost $20 million ...
    3 weeks ago

  • Forestry helps prisoners into jobs
    Eleven men from a pilot forestry training programme for prisoners in Northland now have full time jobs or job offers upon release, Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis and Forestry Minister Shane Jones announced today. The ‘release to work’ programme was a collaboration between Te Uru Rākau and the Department of Corrections, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • Reform of public service a step closer
    Minister of State Services Chris Hipkins today introduced into Parliament a Bill that will make it easier for the public service to tackle the biggest challenges facing Governments. The Bill represents the most significant change in the public service in 30 years. The State Sector Act 1988 will be repealed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Donations scheme to relieve pressure on families
    The families of more than 416,000 students will be better off next year as their schools have signed up to the Government’s donations scheme, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. The scheme will see almost $62.5 million in additional Government funding go to schools nationwide next year. “I’m really pleased ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Further support for Samoan measles outbreak
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced further support as the Government of Samoa responds to a serious measles outbreak. “New Zealand will deploy a further 18 vaccination nurses, bringing the total to 30 working in Samoa over the next four weeks,” Mr Peters said. “A New Zealand Medical Assistance ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Speech to the Child Poverty Action Group 2019 Summit
      Fa’atalofa atu, malo e lelei, Kia ora koutou katoa Thank you to the Child Poverty Action Group for asking me to be here today to provide an update on some of the things that have been happening across my the social development portfolio.  Can I firstly acknowledge the vast ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing Annual Conference
    ***Please check against delivery*** Good morning everyone. It is a pleasure to be with you this morning to open this year’s New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing Conference and AGM. Firstly, thank you Dr Alan Jackson, NZTR Chair for your introduction. And let us acknowledge also: The NZTR Board; Dean McKenzie, Chair ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Fairer rules for tenants and landlords
    The Government has delivered on its promise to the over one million New Zealanders who now rent to make it fairer and more secure, Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing) Kris Faafoi has announced today. Both renters and landlords will benefit from the suite of practical changes to the Residential ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Two decades of marine protection celebrated at Te Tapuwae o Rongokako in Tairawhiti
    A marine conservation milestone - the 20th anniversary of the establishment of Te Tapuwae o Rongokako Marine Reserve - is being celebrated today at a community event in Tairāwhiti/East Coast attended by the Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “The creation of this marine reserve in November 1999 was a game ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Food industry asked to step up fight against obesity
         The Government is asking the food industry to step up work to tackle obesity including reducing sugar, fat and salt in their products, better information for consumers, and tighter restrictions on advertising to children. Health Minister David Clark and Food Safety Minister Damien O’Connor have responded to a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Modern emergency care for Queenstown area
    ew, modern emergency department and outpatient facilities at Queenstown’s Lakes District Hospital mean better emergency care for the growing tourist mecca’s visitors and locals, says Health Minister David Clark. Today Dr Clark officially opened the hospital’s redeveloped Emergency Department and Outpatient facilities. The new facilities include: •    An extended Emergency Department ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Contraception important for New Zealanders
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter says today’s release of sexual and reproductive health data reinforces the significance of the Government’s commitment to providing free or very low-cost contraception. The Ministry of Health today published statistics from the Ministry of Health’s 2014/15 Health Survey. “It is important people can make ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ medical staff and measles vaccines going to Samoa
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced that at the request of the Samoan Government, New Zealand will be providing further support to Samoa as it faces a worsening measles outbreak. “In response to a request from the people of Samoa, New Zealand is providing 3000 measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Disability Action Plan 2019 – 2023
    “The new Disability Action Plan 2019–2023 moves us towards the inclusive and accessible New Zealand that this government has committed to,” Minister for Disability Issues Carmel Sepuloni announced today.  “The Action Plan was designed by disabled people, their family and supporters, the disability sector and government agencies. It will ensure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Joint Statement – Third Singapore-New Zealand Defence Ministers’ Meeting
    Third Singapore-New Zealand Defence Ministers’ Meeting 14 November 2019 Joint Statement 1. Defence Ministers Ron Mark and Dr Ng Eng Hen today conducted their third annual Singapore-New Zealand Defence Ministers’ Meeting in Singapore. 2. Building on the Enhanced Partnership signed between both countries in May this year, this annual meeting ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Sexual Violence Legislation Bill has its first reading
    A Bill to improve the court system’s response to sexual violence has passed its first reading in Parliament today. Justice Minister Andrew Little says the Sexual Violence Legislation Bill will reduce the trauma sexual violence complainants experience in court, while maintaining defendants’ fundamental rights and making sure the trial process ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Streamlined business invoicing a step closer
    Streamlined payment practices are a step closer for Kiwi businesses with the formal launch of New Zealand’s e-Invoicing framework. Small Business Minister Stuart Nash says the government has now established the structure to enable automated and direct data exchange between the accounting systems of buyers and sellers. “The move to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • More frontline biosecurity officers protecting NZ
    Another 51 quarantine officers and four new biosecurity detector dog teams will help protect New Zealand from invasive pests and diseases this summer, says Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor. “The Government is delivering on its commitment to strengthen New Zealand’s biosecurity system and support our valuable primary sector “New Zealand’s flora, fauna ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ space economy worth $1.69 billion
    A new report has found New Zealand’s space sector contributed $1.69 billion to the economy in the last financial year and employs 12,000 people, Minister for Economic Development Phil Twyford announced today. The report by Deloitte was commissioned by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and shows New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Chair for Royal Commission into Abuse
    Judge Coral Shaw has been appointed as the new Chair of the Royal Commission into Historical Abuse in State Care and in the Care of Faith-based Institutions, Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin announced today. "Judge Shaw, who is currently one of the inquiry commissioners, is extremely well qualified for the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Better mental health facilities for Palmerston North
    The Government has confirmed its third major mental health facility upgrade since the Budget, this time at Palmerston North Hospital. The Prime Minister and Health Minister today visited MidCentral DHB to announce that $30 million has been allocated to upgrade its acute mental health facility. It follows earlier announcements in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Bowel Screening hits halfway point
    The roll out of the National Bowel Screening Programme has reached the halfway mark, with 10 out of 20 District Health Boards now part of the programme. MidCentral DHB, which covers Palmerston North, Manawatu and surrounding districts, this week became the latest to DHB to offer free bowel screening to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • More vaccines for meningococcal disease
    The Government welcomes PHARMAC’s decision to fund a vaccine to protect young people from meningococcal disease from 1 December this year. “Meningococcal disease is a serious threat which people at higher risk should be protected from,” says Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter. “The combined pharmaceutical budget was increased by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Fisheries innovation projects supported
    Groups involved with innovative fisheries research projects are encouraged to apply for government support in the latest funding round from the Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures programme. Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash says the SFF Futures funding is designed to be flexible enough to support small or large projects across a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Government fixes culturally arranged marriage visa issue
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