Guns don’t shoot people, men do

Written By: - Date published: 6:33 am, November 7th, 2017 - 200 comments
Categories: gender, us politics - Tags: , , ,

With regard to the latest US shooting, I suspect we’ve already passed a marker in the road that suggests there is no turning back, and that whatever liberal solutions we have floating round in our heads about gun control are largely irrelevant, no matter how much we might like to think the US is still part of the civilised world. So this post isn’t about Sutherland Springs, nor gun control. It’s about what lies beneath.

I have a friend who lives in a self-sufficient, rural part of the US. She once asked me how women in NZ protect themselves from sexual assault if they don’t carry a gun. Where she lives that kind of protection is necessary and normal and she has a hand gun as well as her hunting rifles. It was a fair question, not easily answered, but most interesting for me is thinking about where my pro gun-control politics would be at if I lived in the part of the world she does.

It leads me pretty quickly to maybe we should be looking at the common denominator problem not as guns but men. Guns don’t shoot people, men do.

The media are reporting that there is no known motive yet for the Sutherland Springs shooting but that the victims included a pregnant woman and her children, and the town was where the man’s wife came from. No idea how much of that is true or relevant, but it led me to thinking again about the Montreal shooting in 1989 where a man went onto a co-ed polytech campus and shot fourteen women engineering students. The media covering that story at the time were complicit in downplaying the gendered nature of the crime.

Then Toronto Star journalist Shelley Page,

Looking back, I fear I sanitized the event of its feminist anger and then infantilized and diminished the victims, turning them from elite engineering students who’d fought for a place among men into teddy-bear loving daughters, sisters and girlfriends.

Twenty-five years later, as I re-evaluate my stories and with the benefit of analysis of the coverage that massacre spawned, I see how journalists— male and female producers, news directors, reporters, anchors — subtly changed the meaning of the tragedy to one that the public would get behind, silencing so-called “angry feminists.” We were “social gatekeeping,” as filmmaker Maureen Bradley later asserted in her 1995 film, Reframing the Montreal Massacre: A media interrogation.

Quebec journalist Francine Pelletier,

In hindsight, it’s obvious that the Montreal Massacre was too extreme — no one could draw a line between women being gunned down on a university campus and what women, as a rule, were being subjected to.

Unable to look the tragedy in the eye — to this day we have yet to acknowledge that this was not just a crime against women but against feminism, against women who dare go where only men have gone before — we have been paying lip service in the fight against violence against women.

So here we are nearly 30 years later. Maybe we should try and talk about it differently now. For instance there are the known connections between domestic violence and mass shooters, including with the alleged Sutherland Springs shooter (media report he was courtmartialed and convicted for domestic violence in 2012).

https://twitter.com/JennyKayNZ/status/927475319950393344

That video quotes a study done on 156 mass shootings between 2009 and 2016. Fifty four percent of those shootings were related to domestic or family violence. You can watch the video to see the inadequate legislative response to this despite it being a known issue.

Then there are the problems of talking about whether white loner men are terrorists. We can have another conversation about the definitions of terrorism, but in the context of the media coverage of the Montreal shooting let’s not pretend that the ways we define terrorism are determined by anyone other than the dominant culture.

The Montreal École Polytechnique shooter’s suicide note read,

“Would you note that if I commit suicide today it is not for economic reasons … but for political reasons,” it read. “Because I have decided to send the feminists, who have always ruined my life, to their Maker … I have decided to put an end to those viragos.”

(That note was not released at the time for fear it would spark copy-cat murders, but the non-release played into the ungendering of the crime)

Try arguing that’s not terrorism. Consider why we couldn’t say that it was a terrorist act against feminists thirty years ago and use that to inform our political understanding about gendered violence and mass shootings.

Think about the connections between domestic violence, my friend who carries a gun to protect herself from rape, and the phrase “shot fourteen women engineering students”. Think about what feminists of colour would be writing instead of this Pākehā feminist. Think about how it might appear if you related primarily with the class of people being shot. What if the women being shot were telling the story?

For those of us who followed #gamergate or who read and talk with outspoken and angry feminists online, that phrase about women in engineering carries immediate meaning three decades later. There are men in society who hate women and will kill them, and the ones that don’t kill will still terrorise.

Women by default live in a world where walking down the street at night carries risk of violence from men. They also live in a world where being in various kinds of relationships with men carries risk. Not all women, not all the time, but enough that we can generalise to widely shared experiences ranging from caution to hindering levels of fear.

When women then enter into traditional male territory, like tech, gaming, science, or engineering, the threat of those risks is often made plain. Prominent feminist bloggers routinely get threats of rape, murder, doxing, and attacks on their families including children. These aren’t by lone ‘nutters’, they are men operating intentionally in the context of a wider movement that has a political agenda. That political agenda promotes and sanctions violence against women.

Think I’m over-egging things? Writer Michelle Goldberg on writing as a feminist,

Feminists of the past faced angry critics, letters to the editor and even protests. But the incessant, violent, sneering, sexualized hatred their successors absorb is harder to escape. For women of color, racial abuse comes along with the sexism. “I have received racialized rape threats that I don’t think I would necessarily receive if I were white,” Wilson says. “A lot of things about anatomy — black women’s anatomy.” She talks about the online abuse in therapy. “There is trauma, especially related to the death and rape threats,” she says. Eventually, such sustained abuse ends up changing people — both how they live and how they work.

Read that again in the context of understanding that many women are actual victims of violence, overwhelmingly at the hands of man. This isn’t about getting one’s feelings hurt.

If the purpose of terrorism is in a dictionary definition – “the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims”, how is what I am describing not terrorism? Maybe it’s not unlawful enough. Maybe not enough women have been killed or raped. Maybe too many of the perpetrators don’t have a paid up membership to the club. Or maybe it’s just too common and widespread to be called terrorising. Perhaps it’s just that women don’t get to decide.

But consider this. The kind of ongoing, background fear that some in the US are now starting to experience because of mass shootings is not new to women. And feminists have been talking about this for a long time.

To be clear, I’m not commenting on the motivations of the shooter yesterday. I have no idea what that was about. But we do know he was a man out of control. This is an opportunity to rethink what terrorism is, and to move the conversation beyond the rather futile gun control debate. I still believe gun control is essential, I just think it’s a symptom and I’d rather we also look at the cause. Until we address much more fundamental issues of power, who has it and why they have it, and how it gets used, the gun debate will continue to circle impotently above people of all genders.

Because many people aren’t used to these conversations, I also need to point out that naming men as a common denominator doesn’t mean that men are inherently bad. It means that men as a class have a problem that needs to be sorted. There are whole political analyses about in what way it’s a male problem, and how men are also damaged by this, and what the solutions might be, but to have useful conversations about that we first need to learn how to talk about the gendered nature of violence.

This conversation isn’t primarily one of women against men either. Feminists have brothers, sons, fathers and male friends they love and care about, and thus most feminists have a vested interest in the wellbeing of men.

Here’s a radical thought to end on. When women have a free voice, when we not only let them talk about their experiences and politics in ways that are meaningful to them, but actively create space for them to do so, they tend to find solutions that work for all people. What would happen if we stopped and listened to women now?

200 comments on “Guns don’t shoot people, men do ”

  1. chris73 1

    I dunno, its a tough one. From what I’ve heard the guy was disqualified (under Texas law) from having a firearms licence so it was an illegal weapon and, from, witness accounts, a civilian drove the guy off by returning fire

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/98620414/texas-hero-describes-gun-battle-and-150kmh-chase-with-church-shooter

    I own a bolt action and a semi-auto and I’m a responsible owner but what to do in the USA is difficult.

    Its difficult because the USA has more than enough gun laws but where it falls down (imho) is in its treatment of the mentally ill, I realise its not scientific but I think if you want to kill a whole bunch of people then you’re not right in the head and it seems like mental health treatment in the USA is woefully underfunded.

    But then how do you treat someone if they don’t want to be treated or go looking for treatment, we know he was discharged from the airforce for domestic violence (why he couldn’t legally obtain firearms) so maybe committing certain crimes means you have to undergo treatment but how do you make the person accept they need help?

    • Carolyn_nth 1.1

      The domestic violence charge is relevant to weka’s excellent post.

      RNZ reported that the shooter had an argument with his mother-in-law, he had previously been charged with assaulting his wife and child, and that his mother-in-law was a member of the congregation of the church where the shooting occurred.

      But the article doesn’t identify it as a hate crime because it wasn’t motivated by racism of religion – the gender component is overlooked.

    • boggis the cat 1.2

      how do you make the person accept they need help?

      There isn’t a choice. Either they take the course(s) and evaluation, or they get to sit in jail until they reconsider it. That is the rule for driving offences, so why not more serious issues?

      • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1

        So how do you make the treatment stick, like if they don’t want it in the first place then all they have to do is say the right things and get the tick in the boxes but nothings really changed

        • KJT 1.2.1.1

          So you want to forcibly treat the “mentally ill”. Now!

          Great to demonise at least a quarter of our population. Most of whom, despite being ill, do not harm other people. More likely to harm themselves, at least in part because of stereotypes about mental illness.

          Except that most crimes of violence against others are committed by “sane” people.

          • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1.1.1

            I don’t think its unreasonable to suggest that if someone wants to, and proceeds to, murder people then they probably do have some form of mental illness

            I also believe that if you are mentally ill and do want to murder people then yeah you should be treated

            • Matthew Whitehead 1.2.1.1.1.1

              As someone who has actually experienced mental illness, I actually do think it’s unreasonable to assume that. Not all people who commit murder are mentally ill, even if I do think that all people who would consider unprovoked murder seriously are in need of therapeutic treatment.

              It’s good to point out that some people who kill others are considered legally insane and that that’s a valid defense under the law, and these people deserve our help and compassion because they are often unable to make the necessary decisions to avoid violence. But suggesting even that everyone who commits a mass murder must have some sort of underlying condition is fundamentally incorrect. Some of them are healthy people who are merely in unhealthy situations, and this is not mental illness, it’s a symptom of a dysfunctional society. As Weka points out, misogyny and violence towards women are, as bad and preventable as they should be in their own right, also warning signs for outright murder or even mass killings, and ensuring that everyone can integrate well with the entire population, including women, brown people, queers, etc… etc… will help prevent this kind of violence. It’s one reason why it’s so important to have an inclusive society.

              Back to mential health and murder, it’s entirely possible for the motivations of these mass killers to be political, or discriminatory, or driven by alienation, and while all of these might merit therapeutic treatment, none is actually an underlying mental illness, they are simply situations that might make you come to justifiably excessive conclusions. (that’s not “justifiable” to your average, reasonable person in a healthy situation, it’s “justifiable” to someone in their frame of mind and with the same determinants of their emotional situation) Mental illness, by comparison, leads you to come to unjustifiably excessive conclusions when making decisions given the situation you’re in. For a relatively regular example, you might be a highly punctual person who never misses a bus, but you might also be constantly worried about doing so even when you arrive early. That’s a symptom of anxiety, which could have a number of causes.

    • KJT 1.3

      Except that most shooters in the USA are not mentally ill/different.

      Neither is Trump. He is simply an oversized child who has never been told he cannot have his own way.

      But, keep perpetuating the stereotype.

  2. Andre 2

    The Texas mass murderer’s history of domestic violence.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-church-shooting-domestic-violence_us_5a0095f7e4b04cdbeb351cd0?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    “Guns don’t shoot people, men do.”

    While female mass murderers are very rare compared to male mass murderers, the number is not zero. In the US, where guns are commonly available, the (very few) female mass murderers commonly use guns. Outside the US, where guns are not commonly available, other weapons are used.

    No argument that most of the world has a serious problem with males perpetrating physical violence on females, much more so than the other way around. In America, the problem is severely compounded by the easy access to guns.

    https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/ppmzkk/the-sparse-history-of-female-rampage-killers

    • Cinny 2.1

      It’s like they get the rage on, then like you said Andre about guns been so accessible, it’s a recipe of disaster.

      Just like domestic violence, when they get the rage on they can’t stop and thank heavens guns aren’t so common in NZ homes.

      • Andre 2.1.1

        And in New Zealand, we have regulations around how guns and ammo are to be stored. So even with the rage on, and a gun in the house, there’s still the chance that the extra time it takes to actually get the gun and get it ready will cool the situation just enough to avert the murder that might have otherwise happened.

        • Cinny 2.1.1.1

          For sures Andre, for sures.

        • Matthew Whitehead 2.1.1.2

          Yeah, I think by and large our regulations around guns in New Zealand are sensible. There’s some valid debate to be had about whether there should be some additional restrictions on the number of guns a licensed firearms owner should be allowed to keep on their own property, but I like that our approach is centred around ensuring that people know how to responsibly treat firearms before they can personally own them, and that they can be denied a license on reasons of character. (which, you would hope, would include reasons like those Weka is concerned about in this post)

      • James 2.1.2

        Actually they are common – about 22 firearms per 100 people. Finland, Norway And Canada also have higher rates also without the level of gun crime.

        So it’s not gun ownership or indeed “men” that are causing the problem – there is something else I’m the mix

        • Robert Guyton 2.1.2.1

          the bullets?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.2.2

          Something else? Not exactly.

          There are overlying factors that exacerbate what we might call “mens’ issues”, cf: James Gilligan on the effects of triggers like disrespect, loss of face and humiliation. And it’s still the men committing the violent crimes.

          Although women comprise more than half the U.S. population, they committed only 14.7% of the homicides noted during the study interval.

        • joe90 2.1.2.3

          there is something else I’m the mix

          Ya reckon….
          /

          Aurora: AR-15
          Orlando: AR-15
          Las Vegas: AR-15
          Sandy Hook: AR-15
          Umpqua CC: AR-15
          San Bernardino: AR-15
          Sutherland Springs: AR-15

          — Michael Skolnik (@MichaelSkolnik) November 6, 2017

          Instead of sensibly prohibiting civilian use of assault weapons, they are still legal in most places and in the wake of the Las Vegas tragedy, you can still make one fire automatically with a “bump stock.” The fact that only semi-automatic, and not fully-automatic rifles are legal, isn’t the point. What is the point: a tool meant for combat situations is widely available in civil society for no apparent reason other than to let civilians feel like they are soldiers. So we wind up with men carrying a legally-purchased weapon of war. No, they are not designed exactly the same, but when the bullet leaves the barrel at subsonic speeds to shred bones and organs, the results are often the same.

          (my bold)

          http://www.newsweek.com/guns-texas-shooting-ar-15-assault-rifles-church-26-dead-devin-kelley-mass-703160

        • Cinny 2.1.2.4

          So if that’s the case James, maybe it’s because of the storage and accessability of firearms that it’s not so common here.

          In NZ the arms holder has to be registered and checked, it’s quite a process, the police come around and ask questions of the person applying for the license and check out their firearms storage etc, also the firearms holder has to do a mountain safety course etc etc. Not the case in the USA, from my understanding the weapon is registered rather than the owner and with gun shops a dime a dozen.

          The corolation between domestic violence, mass shootings by men etc is really interesting, would be good to see such findings acted upon. Would take a miracle in the USA for that to happen, gun lobbyists and all that.

          I guess what makes things even more difficult when analysing certain situations is the shooter often is either shot dead or kills themselves, so everyone essentially is guessing as to their motive and thinking at the time. Guns seem to be the preferred male weapon of choice over there.

          Edit… Joe is on to it, just read your comment Joe, makes sense to me.

          • joe90 2.1.2.4.1

            The corolation between domestic violence, mass shootings by men etc is really interesting

            The majority of mass shootings—54 percent of cases—were related to domestic or family violence.

            Mass shootings significantly impacted children: 25 percent of mass shooting fatalities (211) were children. This is primarily driven by mass shootings related to domestic or family violence, in which over 40 percent of fatalities were children.

            In nearly half of the shootings—42 percent of cases—the shooter exhibited warning signs before the shooting indicating that they posed a danger to themselves or others. These red flags included acts, attempted acts, or threats of violence towards oneself or others; violations of protective orders; or evidence of ongoing substance abuse.

            https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/

          • james 2.1.2.4.2

            “it’s quite a process..”

            No its not. Ive done it – and its as easy as pie.

        • tracey 2.1.2.5

          Do tell James, on what basis did you eliminate “men” as a cause of the problem and what might the “something else” be?

          • james 2.1.2.5.1

            Well – if you think its just guns, or just men that are the problem you are being simplistic.

            Yes – Men are involved in Gun killings more than women – but women still a reasonable number of people using guns.

            https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-gender/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

            There are more factors at play – Picking on gender is I think not the primary reason.
            Mental state / financial pressures / drug use are issues that could be causes of gun crime more than just because of their gender.

            • tracey 2.1.2.5.1.1

              Citations? Of course it is complex but your certainty that men are not a central part of the cause invites a request for supported reasons in reply.

              For example do men suffer from financial pressures, mental illness and drug use in much higher numbers than women?

              I note you seem to refer to more men involved in killing than women using guns. They are separate issues not to be conflated in the context of wekas post?

            • weka 2.1.2.5.1.2

              “There are more factors at play – Picking on gender is I think not the primary reason.”

              No-one is suggesting that there aren’t multiple factors. The post is saying that it’s about time we looked at gender in mass shootings.

              If mental state, financial pressures, drug use were factors that overrode gender, then we’d see women committing mass shootings in much greater numbers. You might want to argue that there are specific ways that men respond to mental and financial stressors or use drugs, but then we are having a gendered conversation again.

              I suspect you are worried that looking at men means that men are somehow bad or wrong. But really that’s not what I am saying.

  3. Cinny 3

    Really good post Weka, very well written, fascinating and interesting.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1

      +1

    • tracey 3.2

      Agree.

      I do think in 2017 it is sad that when we put forward a view like this, or sexual violence against women, and we are female writers, we have to bend over backwards to point out we are not men haters, have brothers, fathers, sons, and partners we love.

      Great piece weka. Am reading about Charlotte Perkins Gillman at the moment. Her basic treatise (and to sum it up as succinctly as I am about to try is trite) was women are Humanists.

      • weka 3.2.1

        I should look her up again. I read Herland a number of times as a young woman, would be interesting to revisit it now and see what was influential.

        “I do think in 2017 it is sad that when we put forward a view like this, or sexual violence against women, and we are female writers, we have to bend over backwards to point out we are not men haters, have brothers, fathers, sons, and partners we love.”

        quite. It’s getting better I think.

      • Matthew Whitehead 3.2.2

        Yeah, it’s unfair for sure. Hell, I had to be similarly careful when writing about pathological masculinity, because even as a man you’ll be accused of being brainwashed by “shrill feminists” and “not having a mind of your own.”

        Existing while female is still a bloody trial and men underestimate just how different it is on a social level. I have a lot of respect for women who put their hands up for being in the public spotlight and how much more difficult that is than for people like me.

        We just have to keep putting the complainers and harassers in their place over and over again, talking to people who are more moderate in that excessively reasonable way, until they come around and start telling off their less liberal friends to be behave like adults around women.

        And like all of these problems, it’s men talking to men that’s what’s needed to change it, and even though we’re beginning to make progress, (it’s a little surreal, for instance, watching people coming forward with stories of sexual abuse or harassment being treated seriously more often all of a sudden now) it’ll still be a while before that necessary attitude shift solidifies.

        • tracey 3.2.2.1

          “And like all of these problems, it’s men talking to men that’s what’s needed to change it, and even though we’re beginning to make progress, (it’s a little surreal, for instance, watching people coming forward with stories of sexual abuse or harassment being treated seriously more often all of a sudden now) it’ll still be a while before that necessary attitude shift solidifies. “

      • Tony Veitch (not etc) 3.2.3

        Tracey, I’ve just finished reading Charlotte Gilman’s novel ‘Herland.’ Available through Gutenburg.org in a digital form.

        A bit dated, but the humanitarian and compassionate nature of women is stressed.

        Snap – just noticed Weka’s comment.

  4. Puckish Rogue 4

    NZ has pretty good gun laws, a good balance between the individual and society but then we have one set of laws for the entire country whereas the USA has different laws between the states

    One of the best things the USA could do (they won’t of course) is to one set of gun laws across the entire country

    • Andre 4.1

      And the reason the US won’t is that the Second Amendment starts “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State…”

      So the argument that the Second Amendment is about states rights to regulate guns as they see fit is a lot stronger than the argument that it is about an individual right to bear arms.

      • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1

        Yup

      • boggis the cat 4.1.2

        Parsing the Second Amendment as a ‘State’s rights’ issue is incorrect.

        At the time of writing, militia were envisaged to be required and were to be under local State control (“well regulated militia”). This was intended to prevent establishing a Federal army, which the early ruling elite were leery of (having just fought such an armed force). For practical reasons, the USA ended up creating an army and navy that came under Federal control.

        No militia exists now, however the National Guard is a close analogy.

        Individual right to own weapons is not guaranteed explicitly by the Second Amendment. If it were so, then why can’t a US citizen buy whatever weapon they see fit, up to and including nuclear devices?

        • Puckish Rogue 4.1.2.1

          Because, contrary to what some believe, there is gun control in the USA but gun control means a lot of different things to a lot of different people

        • Andre 4.1.2.2

          The US had the Continental Army over the relevant time period

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Army

          The bill of rights including the second amendment was introduced in 1789 and ratified in 1791. Considering there was effectively a federal army before, during, and immediately after the second amendment was introduced and ratified, preventing such an army doesn’t seem to have been the intent. But ensuring states retained the power to stand up to a federal army on the other hand …

          • tracey 4.1.2.2.1

            You kind of need to be armed when you have been committing a genocide on those who occupied the land before you… angry retaliation and so forth.

            Interestingly however that Rights have been ammended so if the only reason given for holding on to something is that we can’t change the bill of Rights, we know that is not true.

            • Andre 4.1.2.2.1.1

              By 1790 the risk of retribution from dispossessed and displaced original inhabitants had passed for white male land-owners on almost all of the coastal region from Norfolk through Baltimore, Philly, New York and Boston. Which is the vast majority of those whose interests shaped the constitution and early amendments.

              To be sure, genocide was ongoing on the edges of those areas. But I’m not aware of anything written in the constitution that appears intended to encourage and assist that genocide and land-grab. (However I’ve never read it with the intent of looking for provisions like that, so they may be there and I’ve skimmed over)

              It’s not impossible to amend the constitution, it’s just very difficult. Difficult enough that a few committed nutters can easily derail a proposed amendment. And gun nuts are as nutty and committed as they come.

              • tracey

                I didnt mean that the law was to help genocide but rather if you piss off enough people they get angry and might come after you so you need guns. I absolutely bow to you on this as you have hufe knowledge that I do not.

          • Exkiwiforces 4.1.2.2.2

            You would find the Continental Army slowly became a small cadre of Officers and NCO’s, rather like the NZ Army before WW1 and WW2 and backed up with semi/ under trained troops from the Militia or in the case of NZ the Territorials.

            But that all change after the war of 1812 when some “bright spark of the president” decide to invade Canada, which went pear sharp rather quickly and if it wasn’t for the Royal Navy and the British Army tied up fighting old Boney over in Europe at the time. As it could’ve been a lot worst than just the White House being “Burnt Down” (just a side note some my Anglo Canadian relatives were there when they Burnt the bloody thing down) as the Anglo Canadian Forces lack the number in both men, material and Ships to push home the advantage over an under trained, under equip, poorly led US Army. During the defensive battles along the Great Lakes (The Battle of the Great Lakes) as the Anglo Canadian Forces withdrew as they need to shorted their supply line for the coming winter and with the UK fighting old Boney in Europe and additional men and supplies etc were to hard to come by. The Anglo Canadian Force though outnumbered still manage to out fight US Forces, but couldn’t push home the attack due to a lack numbers and material.

            The end result of the war of 1812 the apart from the current US/ Canadian Border and a few other things was the US Congress standing up full time Army, increased funding to the state militias (now known at as the State National Guard which have an Army and a Airforce to back up the Federal Army and USAF. Another side note is that Federal Army and USAF cannot be deployed operational within the United States only the Guard can) and expanding the US Navy with some really good designed Frigates.

            The standing up of a Federal Army and the State National Guard pretty well make’s the second amendment an outdated piece of history, that need’s to be amended reflect a more modern meaning. But I think I’ll more likely too see a four term Labour led coalition than the US House of Congress amend the 2nd amendment.

          • boggis the cat 4.1.2.2.3

            No, the federal army was disbanded following the Revolutionary War — excepting a small contingent set to guard the artillery stored at West Point, and another small force tasked with securing the western frontier. Distrust of standing armies is precisely why the Second Amendment exists, to codify the right of individual States to maintain an armed militia.

            Note that the vagueness of the wording could be interpreted to allow for any weaponry, but in practice the States did not procure heavy armaments or naval forces.

      • Matthew Whitehead 4.1.3

        The second amendment is not the actual reason that US gun law is so ridiculous. No reasonable judge would have interpretted the second amendment as anything other than a right to own a weapon to participate in the armed forces, back when you had to bring your own weapon, because at one time the US was that small and under-developed a country.

        For one thing, there probably wouldn’t have been a second amendment if it weren’t for slavery and the compromises to it that the US offered before the civil war. For another, there would never have been the modern interpretation of the second amendment as granting a right to firearms for personal defense as opposed to communal defense, if not for the NRA’s transmutation from an organization promoting gun skills in the northern US into what it essentially is now, an advocacy group for manufacturers of firearms. Combine that with the rampant culture of political corruption (sorry sorry, “legal use of money in political campaigns”) in the US, and you have a recipe for stonewalling of any sensible gun control measures despite their overwhelming popularity with voters. (This isn’t to say that the sorts of half-baked gun control measures that have been passed previously in the US are popular, rather that further reforms with common-sense rules poll well even among Republicans)

        • Andre 4.1.3.1

          Uh, what’s the connection between slavery and the civil war, and the second amendment’s existence? The second amendment was signed and ratified in 1791, the civil war was seventy-ish years later.

          But yeah, the current judicial interpretation of the second amendment guaranteeing an individual right to own just about whatever weapons they want only goes back a couple of decades at most.

          • Matthew Whitehead 4.1.3.1.1

            The connection is that a lot of the job of early militias was to put down slave revolts and pursue escaped slaves in the slave states. Guaranteeing people the right to own arms to participate in those militias was one of the compromises that kept the slave states part of the union in the early days, so the second amendment is deeply connected to slavery, well before the era of the american civil war. The slave states probably (but not definitely) wouldn’t have felt the need to enshrine their right to form militias in the constitution if it weren’t for the context of slavery, and then the modern day NRA wouldn’t have had the same legal leverage to oppose regulation of handguns, nor would they have had the social leverage of white men being so keen on firearms because of the traditions that started in a culture of trying to intimidate and control African-Americans.

            • Andre 4.1.3.1.1.1

              Ok, I’ll need to look into that a bit more. Most of the articles that come up on a quick google seem to be very recent, rather than it being an interpretation going back decades.

              Gotta love that the most common citation is a dude named Bogus 🙂 !

            • Andre 4.1.3.1.1.2

              Ok, had a bit more of a look into it. Seems to me the case has been made that the role state militias had in keeping slavery sustainable is an important piece of context for the time, and that it has been understated.

              But that argument is a long way short of making the case that slavery was a dominant factor, or even anything more than a minor contributing motive for the second amendment. It appears to rely heavily on inserting words [in brackets] into historical documents in some sort of modern interpretation of what those documents “really were saying”.

              If Bogus and Hartmann and co expect to achieve the extraordinary feat of revising the centuries-old understanding of the second amendment, they need extraordinary evidence. But they haven’t presented it.

  5. Antoine 5

    So true, violent men are the problem.

    A.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1

      …and those who stand by and pretend it’s nothing to do with them.

    • boggis the cat 5.2

      The issue is societal, I think. Our culture produces damaged people.

      Men are conditioned to be ‘in control’ and so anything that undermines that expected reality causes stress. Women are the obvious target for male rage because their lower status and expected subservience has been internalised by men.

      The solution is feminism: accepting that all human beings are of equal worth, regardless of gender or other distinctions.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.2.1

        Not quite

        https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expandhomicidemain

        “Of the 12,996 murder victims in 2010 for which supplemental data were received, most (77.4 percent) were male. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 1.)”

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2.1.1

          A narrow focus on crime and punishment deflects from the issue Weka raised in the OP:

          men as a class have a problem that needs to be sorted.

          And I don’t think the solution is that women should carry handguns, although I don’t think I’d die in a ditch to stop them.

          • Puckish Rogue 5.2.1.1.1

            No but I was responding to this: “Women are the obvious target for male rage because their lower status and expected subservience has been internalised by men” whereas the reality is that 77% of victims of murders by gun are male

            • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.1.1.1

              But how many of those 77% were because of rage? And then compare that to how many of the 23% were.

              In other words, you got your comparison wrong.

              • Puckish Rogue

                I’ll admit this is conjecture but I’m guessing that most murders are committed by someone in a rage

                • McFlock

                  In NZ, probably.
                  In the US – well, maybe, but also a mix of drug deals, gang issues, and status issues that wouldn’t really count as “rage” (seeing red, sort of thing). Probably a higher proportion of calculated/semi-calculated murders than in NZ. Robberies gone wrong, too.

            • tracey 5.2.1.1.1.2

              How many of the women murdered by men are partners or spouses? How many of the victims of men’s rage, both convicted and not convicted have been domestic violence?

              • Puckish Rogue

                From the same link:

                Of the female murder victims for whom the relationships to their offenders were known, 37.5 percent were murdered by their husbands or boyfriends. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 2 and 10.)
                rom the same link

        • Matthew Whitehead 5.2.1.2

          Have you stopped to consider that maybe men killing men is also driven by some of the societal attitudes opposed by feminists that are often known as “toxic masculinity?” That in fact, if we got the equality that feminists and their allies want, that men would also feel less responsible for high-pressure jobs, less isolated, and more able to solve problems without violence?

          Just because men are the majority of murder victims doesn’t entirely undermine Boggis’ point- it is likely the men with toxic attitudes to women who are disproportionately committing the violence, even if their victims are more often men.

          • boggis the cat 5.2.1.2.1

            Women are simply an easier target (and more ‘logical’ — especially if they are not conforming to the expected subservient role).

            There is no good evidence for men being innately more aggressive and predisposed to violence without the acculturation / indoctrination that occurs. You just need to read the comments thread below any YouTube video that attacks (or supports, or sometimes doesn’t even mention) ‘feminism’ to see an outpouring of rage predicated on expectations that young men develop. They don’t come up with this by themselves, in a vacuum: it is cultural.

            • Matthew Whitehead 5.2.1.2.1.1

              I didn’t say innately more agressive. I said conditioned to be more aggressive by societal attitudes to the place of men, so you don’t even disagree with me.

            • tracey 5.2.1.2.1.2

              Or when a party with 44% of votes doesnt get to form a govt!

      • Fred H 5.2.2

        Let’s see if boggis’s rational argument works when we substitute a couple of words:

        The issue is societal, I think. Our culture produces damaged people.

        Southerners/Nazis are conditioned to be ‘in control’ and so anything that undermines that expected reality causes stress. Jews/Slaves are the obvious target for Southern/Nazi rage because their lower status and expected subservience has been internalised by Southerners/Nazis.

        The solution is equality/abolition: accepting that all human beings are of equal worth, regardless of religious beliefs/ethnicity or other distinctions.

        Looks like it stands up, I think Unichem sells some creme for all those butthurt ‘what aboutism’ men out there…grow up and see your bullshit culture for what it is…f**kin misogynstic

    • james 5.3

      “are” the problem?

      What about Violent women? could they not be part of the problem also?

      I dont think that this is a subject that can have the “problem” referred to in absolutes.

      • weka 5.3.1

        By all means bring forth an argument about women doing mass shootings, but I’d prefer you put it in the context of the post.

        There are very obvious differences in how men and women do violence. That apparently needs restating.

        I did refer to the problem in an absolute. I said that male violence is a male problem I don’t see what’s particularly controversial about that.

        • Matthew Whitehead 5.3.1.1

          Indeed, a good starting point is actually looking at the disparity in how women who commit violence do so. For instance, women are much more likely to use poisoning than men, and it’s often (although not always) in response to men taking away their autonomy or commiting violence against them first, and therefore a desperate attempt to escape.

          Naturally women committing mass murders and using firearms is going to be more common in the USA because of the other compounding factors not related to toxic masculinity.

      • tracey 5.3.2

        Would you like to see a reduction in violence in society?

      • Antoine 5.3.3

        > What about Violent women? could they not be part of the problem also?

        Not a big part, no.

        Tell you what, if you could first sort male violence out, I’d be happy for the focus to shift 100% on female violence after that

        A.

  6. greywarshark 6

    Humans need to understand ourselves inside and out. The primitive drives, what has been found about the unconscious and subconscious. How our minds are programmed. The quiet perceptions of the powerful and how they influence the politicians that we elect because we think they are worthwhile people with their own minds and skills, and often they are not, just puppets and filled with entitlement talk.

    One thing that appears important is that there is likely to be in every society a scapegoat person or entity that people blame for their misfortune, or for society being under par. At present in NZ it is housing – the idea that all people who need housing should get it and that every social problem will then go away. Also it is beneficiaries, many of whom are women. And so those women get a double dose of disdain, and if they are Maori, probably a triple dose. The ideas are like an addiction that people go to first when there is dissatisfaction, unease, difficulty. Add drugs and alcohol that provide the outward chemical addiction to the inner one and domestic violence is sure.

    And social systems are set up here in a way that goes beyond men being irritated by women in the main, to being declared to be fathers and being landed with responsibility to pay for having a child, which they never wanted. So unsatisfactory men, because they have never learned to be thoughtful, responsible, kind etc. are forced by the state to take responsibility but have no abilities or commitment to gain them. And the woman is saddled with this male with festering dislike, that can turn to hatred – she, they spoil my life. It’s all her fault, she caught me, she should have been taking the pill.

    The rigid, moralistic style of National epitomised by Shipley and Richardson and probably most of the females and males too, also in some Labour pollies, has led to a rotten social system that is part of the drop in services and humaneness towards narrow Victorian times.

    • tracey 6.1

      Perhaps our social, political and financial systems, devised by men to serve and favour men, are at the root of the problem? That is not to say I blame all men today for that.

      Sadly, it is hard to unwind, in a democracy, something so embedded and to get those whom it favours to agree it needs to change. As important as being able to recognise our prejudices, bias etc is being able to acknowledge our privilege and how we do or do not use it.

      Thanks for your thoughtful piece. The love of money seems to be at the root of alot of problems and in NZ it certainly forms the basis of our definitions of success in private and public discourses. Education matters IF it leads directly to a nameable job for example. Health is immediately accessible to, and of a quality, those who can afford medical insurance…. even ACC has become something you need a lawyer to fight for…

  7. JanM 7

    It seems he’d just had a row with his mother-in-law and the church was the one she attended – just happens she wasn’t there that day

    • mpledger 7.1

      Yea. I thought his reason for driving away and not killing himself at the church was because he hadn’t killed who he wanted to.

  8. Bill 8

    Until we address much more fundamental issues of power, who has it and why they have it…

    Well, we know that society focuses power through a cultural lens of patriarchy.

    So (and this is just a loose thought) if men are to be the main benefactors of that arrangement – the ones who can expect to be ‘lifted up’ and advantaged – then maybe deeper senses of hopelessness, anger and/or alienation result when that “rightful” position is shifted out of reach, or if cultural or social markers for it are taken away – or when there’s a perception that “the other” is threatening avenues to attaining that supposed apex of entitlement?

    The higher we are, or perceive ourselves to be – or are “expected” to be – the higher we fall. And similarly, perhaps, the further we are from where we believe we rightfully ought to be, the deeper the perceived shortcomings bite and gouge.

    Power’s essentially a zero sum game.

    If we concentrate it in fewer hands, it’s always by way of taking it away from other hands. One potential reaction to dis-empowerment is violence, to oneself as well as to others, that can find form and expression from across a spectrum that runs from the psychological/emotional through to the physical.

    Anyway. Why do we tolerate this nonsense that sees some of us being systemically and disproportionately empowered in relation to others – whether by way of expectation or in actual fact?

    It seems to me it isn’t working out too well.

    • RedLogix 8.1

      When power and authority are lodged with the individual, almost always there is a corrosive downside. Part of the humanity of this person dies, and almost always that power is misused, either intentionally or carelessly.

      Yet outside the rarefied circles of anarchists, most people acknowledge the critical need for sufficient power and authority to order and regulate society.

      The big idea is to formally decouple the individual from power. I would argue that authority can only be legitimately vested in a collective institution, be it family, community or political in scope. The individual’s role is to serve the institution and the community it works for.

      It is this inversion of thinking which is the path forward. We already have many examples of great leaders, selfless and sacrificing people who have made their special mark on history for their service to humanity. We know it is possible, yet the general adoption of it eludes us. We still suffer the abuses of power at all turns in life.

      But it is fear that holds us back; we grasp at every vestige of power in order to attempt to control the world we live in, to tame it’s unpredictable whims, protect from the rapacious, defend from the outsider and define our social status, roles and identity. There are deep mammalian instincts at work.

      What we struggle with is trust, trust that if we serve others selflessly that we in turn will be looked after ourselves. Not so much in terms of a simple transactional reciprocity, but that if we work to build better, healthier and more connected communities, that this long-term investment will be repaid with the joy of living happily and wisely with all around us.

      • Bill 8.1.1

        So you don’t understand, or you mis-understand anarchy. All good. (Hint – it’s not about individualism)

        Or, perhaps more constructively, as AB suggests (below) [Power is] inherently illegitimate unless it stems from profoundly democratic processes and contains an element of consent.

        And then you drop (yet again) into arguing biological essentialism. Which is a hopeless and pointless perspective. (“It’s in our inescapable nature/genes. Help us God!” 🙄 )

        • RedLogix 8.1.1.1

          So you don’t understand, or you mis-understand anarchy.

          Fair enough I did skate very quickly past an entire political edifice there. Apologies.

          But to be honest the rest of you comment eludes me and I prefer to leave there.

      • weka 8.1.2

        Red, can you please pop into the back end, I left a note there for you.

    • Carolyn_nth 8.2

      My understanding of the meaning of patriarchy, is that it is a hierarchical system, with some men having more power than other, while generally speaking women have less power than all/most men.

      The original meaning is “rule of the father” or chief. It has tended to be extended to mean a system where men have rule over women. But, I think all or most patriarchal systems are hierarchical, while also privileging most men over most women. Some women can be deemed honorary men and given pretty high status within the system.

      But, within contemporary patriarchy, it seems to me, there is a tendency for society to socialising men into measuring their power against each other, and part of that includes the status achieved in controlling, or being higher status than, the women in their lives.

      And this is often the source of male-on-male violence.

      • marty mars 8.2.1

        Well patriarchy is brutal. For instance women are ridiculed – all women. Ridiculed because they are not considered even in the race. They are an appendage to a man. And a commodity – an item of exchange or value to the man, a status symbol, a direct fuck you to other men. Obviously a lot of men don’t or can’t fit into this and the system also abuses them, as well as men abusing them. They are in the game but as cannon fodder.

        So this is the situation that must be changed. This is the toxic meta culture men and women are born into – we fight this shit every day in support of our mothers sisters and daugters and for our fathers brothers and sons too.

      • Bill 8.2.2

        I might extend that idea of power out beyond “rule” and throw some other stratifiers in there – like notions around “social standing” and ideas of what marks someone as “better” or of what constitutes “success” etc.

        Not so long ago, subjugated/exploited/oppressed pink skinned men could nevertheless imagine themselves as ‘belonging’, and experience a sense of power (however vicariously) simply because “pink skinned’ – no matter how ‘done in’ or ‘done over’ they were a part of “what mattered”

        Now, for a host of reasons, there’s turmoil and fall-out.

        And I guess we can choose to ‘row through it’ and wait for a new hierarchy to bed itself in – the makeup of the strata perhaps altered somewhat (eg – less white, less male or whatever) – but fundamentally just the same shit.

        Or maybe we’ll discover it just collapses in on itself, if or when enough of us find the wherewithal to simply walk away…

  9. One Two 9

    Human beings, kill/maim/displace/violate other human beings..

    The ‘weapons’ used are, as you point out..not ‘the cause’…

    Nor is the sex of the abuser…

    Every human being walking in this world, is being abused in some way..

    • greywarshark 9.1

      1,2
      Bit of an empty argument. More substance please.

      • One Two 9.1.1

        Hello GW, thanks for the offer

        What was it about the comment you feel is missing?

        Something attracted you to ask for more..

        I would be interested to hear what that was, as my thoughts on the matter are succinct, as per the comment..

  10. joe90 10

    Religious loon – god was answering the prayers of the victims and fully defeating evil, eternally, by letting them get shot. Sick.

    Despite the horror that madman made the saints of First Baptist endure, those who endured it with faith in Christ have received his victory. Although the murderer filled their eyes with terror, God has now filled them with his glory. Although he persecuted them with violence, God seized that violence and has now used it to deliver his faithful into a kingdom of peace. Although this madman brought death to so many, God has used that death to give them the eternal life won for them in the blood of Jesus.

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/06/saints-first-baptist-church-murdered-god-answering-prayers/

  11. Keith 11

    Wow, men eh? Bastards.

    Take one massacre in the US and all Klan-like, use it to the max to denigrate the race/gender/religion for your own purposes. Muslims will know how the evil creature men feel!

    For your friend in the States who carries a gun to prevent her being raped, is that not the reason for arming oneself in the US, to stop the theoretical boogeyman coming into your trailer at night and doing all kinds of bad things? Its worked brilliantly for politicians over there, instil fear, fear and more fear and then say you have the answer.
    Then have the NRA back you up, Second Amendment style.

    No one admits becoming aroused by having a gun, oh no, its to protect me from the …… just add whatever is topical or feels good.

    Just like brown/black people need to take a look at themselves because they are over-represented in crime statis and jail.
    Just like the Jews were to blame for Germany’s woes.
    Just like homosexuals are sick.
    Just like the Tutsi’s.
    Just like Muslims
    Take your pick, there’s an awful lot of examples to enjoy!

    “Men” (the word is written with contempt) are the last bastion for trouble free biggotry/racism/stereotypical prejudicial rant, you can write up a good ol’ storm about these arseholes whilst equally insanely writing the virtues of the angelic blamefree female.

    But just like any other bullshit like that it is wrong, way wrong

    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1

      That isn’t what Weka said. So yeah, what you wrote is bullshit and wrong.

      There’s not one ounce of contempt in the OP. That’s all you.

      provoked by the experience of feeling shamed and humiliated, disrespected and ridiculed

      And look at the angry pushback!

      • tracey 11.1.1

        Thanks for saying it so articulately OAB. For what it is worth I took “men” to be in quote marks to emphasis it was not a universal condemnation of every man on the planet, but there you are.

        Cos Wow, just wow Keith.

    • weka 11.2

      What OAB said re most of your comment.

      But this requires more response,

      “For your friend in the States who carries a gun to prevent her being raped, is that not the reason for arming oneself in the US, to stop the theoretical boogeyman coming into your trailer at night and doing all kinds of bad things? Its worked brilliantly for politicians over there, instil fear, fear and more fear and then say you have the answer.
      Then have the NRA back you up, Second Amendment style.”

      Given my friend is a rape survivor, the threat isn’t theoretical, it’s literal. And she wasn’t raped by a bogeyman she was raped by an actual man. Like most women, she knows other women who have also been raped by men. She works in an area where women are at particular risk from men, including risk of death. At times she has lived in places where I’m pretty sure the incidence of rape is much higher than the US as a whole, but the incidence of rape in general in the US is still high. Her carrying a gun seems entirely reasonable to me.

      For liberals there’s a conflict there, because if they take the guns away then what happens to women who are at risk? I still support gun control, and I’d guess the US would be a safer place if it had a similar laws for being in possession of a firearm as NZ does. But that still doesn’t protect women. From men.

      Fear of men doesn’t come from politicians. It comes from eons of experience with men. Men can of course choose to do something about that.

      And it’s always useful to have out in the open the men who blame women for being victimised. The rest of your bigoted rhetoric is abhorrent and noted too. I suggest you read the Policy.

  12. KJT 12

    Of course, endless US movies about the “gun totin” cowboy, whether the old Western version or the new cop/spy/soldier/disgruntled right winger, solving his problems, and angst, by “shootin the shit” out of them, have no bearing on the matter.

    • Cinny 12.1

      Add the kill em all video games etc and the electronic babysitter (devices tv etc) in to that mix please.

      • Puckish Rogue 12.1.1

        Except that these movies, games and everything else are readily available in NZ and yet we’re not seeing the same (not even close) results in NZ or anywhere else

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 12.1.2

        You understand that those games are pixels on screens and we gamers know the difference between what is real and what is not.

        If you don’t know the difference between the two then I would worry.

        Next we’ll be blaming rock and roll music or comics.

        I also see the economic violence perpetrated on society as part and parcel of the physical violence. The aggressiveness shown economically quite easily manifests itself as physical violence.

        Violence begats violence begats violence.

    • weka 12.2

      I think how society socialises men absolutely has bearing on the matter, including how popular media does that (and is used to do that). I think the context that socialisation happens within is important.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 12.2.1

        I’d like to see some breakdown of by-country statistics. Or rather, a useful breakdown.

        For example, Business Insider confidently states that NZ is in the top 23 “least sexist” countries, based on economic and political participation, education and health, and yet our rate of domestic violence is pretty high.

        Sweden scores very high on sexual violence, but that’s because Sweden takes the issue seriously.

  13. AB 13

    “Until we address much more fundamental issues of power, who has it and why they have it, and how it gets used, the gun debate will continue to circle impotently above people of all genders”

    Yes, and I think that insight will apply to just about every significant problem if you widen it to consider all types of power – physical, emotional, economic, political, the workplace etc. So in this case there is not only the assumed power of men in a patriarchy to control the behaviour of others (especially women) by force, but also the economic and political power of the NRA and the arms manufacturers.

    The place I increasingly start from is to regard the power of any individual over another as inherently illegitimate unless it stems from profoundly democratic processes and contains an element of consent. (Parents and children being a limited exception)

    • tracey 13.1

      Well said.

      ” So in this case there is not only the assumed power of men in a patriarchy to control the behaviour of others (especially women) by force, but also the economic and political power of the NRA and the arms manufacturers.”

      …and that economic and political power of the NRA and Arms manufacturers is inherently driven by masculine perspectives.

  14. McFlock 14

    Thanks weka, very interesting post.

    • Puckish Rogue 14.1

      I’ve been impressed that no one here has called for the banning of MSSAs and/or semi-autos in NZ

      • weka 14.1.1

        Probably because that’s not what the post is about.

        Cheers McFlock.

        • Puckish Rogue 14.1.1.1

          Its not (and that’s good) but you know topics like this can be somewhat…contentious at times 🙂

          • weka 14.1.1.1.1

            I’ll stick up a post sometime about guns in NZ and then I can pick your brains about various things where I have unanswered questions 🙂

            • Exkiwiforces 14.1.1.1.1.1

              Look forward to that post weka.

              • weka

                cheers, your input would be great too.

                • Exkiwiforces

                  Not during late Nov as i’m going to be in NZ for a RNZAC Reunion and i’m more likely to have very sore head and it was bad enough after lay up the NZ Scots colours in Dunedin last yr. Lol

                  BTW, if you in wellington I have a few hours on the afternoon of 22nd or around Palmy from 23 to 29th Nov, but not the weekend as i’m in Waiberia.

            • Puckish Rogue 14.1.1.1.1.2

              Probably fair to point out I have a slight bias in this area although one law change I would make, in NZ, is that I would remove the MSSA classification altogether and instead make the E endorsement apply to all centre fire semi auto rifles

              Shot guns and rimfires would still be exempt but it just doesn’t make sense, to me anyway, when a couple of minor adjustments turns a MSSA AR-15 into a rifle you can buy on a firearms licence

              • Exkiwiforces

                Some MSSA’s are very easy to convert to full auto and some require the skills of a Gunsmith/ Armourer. Unless you have a heavy barrel fitted to the weapon its rather pointless as you wear the barrel more quickly and you would be lucky to hit the side of a barn door unless you have a stable fire position aka bipod or firing control bursts of 2-3 rds. The only time I’ve full auto is when I’ve been a lead scout or doing Close Quarter Battle Drills aka Force entry into buildings, bunker type complex’s where its the quick or the dead in those scenarios.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Best times was always getting rid of ammo instead of returning it but yeah its interesting comparing Hollywoods depiction compared to real life especially the concept of recoil

                  As I say you take an AR-15 and its an e endorsement but make some changes to the stock or magazine size or whatever and suddenly its considered the same as a bolt-action, doesn’t seem right to me

                  • Exkiwiforces

                    “Best times was always getting rid of ammo instead of returning” yeah it was always good especially when you are on the gun (Machine Gun), but now’s it a chargeable offence to have yippee shoot unless its under sanction training and even then its with blanks for safety reasons.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Yet at the same time the army is getting some really good weaponry in, .338 Lapua and .50cal sniper rifles and M4 rifles

                    • Exkiwiforces

                      You’re found they are Lewis Machine Tool Rifles (a very bespoke version of the M4) not M4’s. What I found funny about the new Rifles that NZDF are getting is our EF90 Rifle the ADF are getting didn’t even pass the NZDF paper broad selection.

                      .338 Lapua is very round and actually I use their .308 round to zero my Howa 1500. By god you pay though the nose for a box 20 full jacket, but again I have a mate who shoots buffalo using .445 or .455 I can’t remember and anyway he pays close to a $100 bucks a box.

      • joe90 14.1.2

        I guess people have confidence in our licensing system and a police force intent on enforcing the laws around the security of weapons and hoovering up as many illegal/illegally possessed firearms as possible.

        • Puckish Rogue 14.1.2.1

          I agree with your first but I think the police are a bit lax when it comes to enforcing laws in this country and the penalties in courts around illegal firearms need to be toughened up

          • Exkiwiforces 14.1.2.1.1

            You’ve hit the nail on the head with that one: “police are a bit lax when it comes to enforcing laws in this country and the penalties in courts around illegal firearms need to be toughened up”

            • Puckish Rogue 14.1.2.1.1.1

              I’ve always felt owning firearms is a privilege and we have opportunities here others around the world are envious of so to protect that I think its better to come down hard on those that want to ruin it for others

              • Exkiwiforces

                Since I was kid shooting the Slug gun and later the .22 single shooting bunnies from the lounge room (can’t do it now as the area where parents live it all built up), later on in the Air Scouts, Army Cadets and later as I got older on the coast or up around Nelson area. I was taught the Owning a firearm was a Privilege not a God given right and I still hold that value to this day even when I lost my privilege after I was section under the NT Mental Health Act after Australia Day during PTSD induce Suicide attempt.

                • tracey

                  Thanks for your insights. It is great to get input on topic/s I know bugger all.

                  Sorry to hear of the impact of your service. Kia kaha

                • Puckish Rogue

                  I’m sorry to hear that, if you ever need help let me know and I’ll help as best I can

                  • Exkiwiforces

                    Thank guys, for your support. My treatment team and the NT Firearms Section is happy for me to re-apply for my licence once my treatment team gives the ok, I still have issues here and there until i’m stabilise with my PTSD which might next yr in 3-4 yrs time etc.

              • tracey

                Where do you sit with respect to the possible (probable) push by the Police Association under its new Union boss toward arming all police? You too exkiwiforces if you see this

                • Puckish Rogue

                  As I understand it most police cars have weapons stored away but its a tough one. On the one hand we expect police to protect us from criminals yet we don’t give them the adequate tools to do the job (especially sole charge coppers) on the other hand theres a more than a few people that don’t want police walking around with pistols on their hips in the belief it will embolden criminals to arm themselves

                  I err towards keeping the police safe so if they feel they need to be armed then I’d, grudgingly, support it as long as they get a lot more time on the range to practice

                  • tracey

                    Bugger wrote a long reply and it disappeared.

                    I will support side arms for sole charge IF IPCA gets resourcing to ensure much quicker decision times and police statements taken at same time as they would if civillian involved in shooting. And we try and have an evidence based discussion rather than polarised he said/she said….

                  • Exkiwiforces

                    It’s tough one, on one hand they there to protect the public and uphold the law, but they need all the right tools in their tool box as the government and public put an awful lot of pressure on the Police force when they have to deal with people up to their eyeballs in drugs aka ice, the rundown of mental health sector within our public health system, the under staffing of the police as well and that’s leads too a WHS issue.

                    I think and still believe the current system in NZ and like the UK one is still the best model for arming Police. But they really need to spend more time on the range or as we called “train the way you are doing to fight” it may sound a bit hash. But there is evidence to back this up by reading:

                    On Killing and On Combat/ Law enforcement both are by the same author. Where he talks about training, during the shooting event and the after effects from active shooting event.

                    There one thing I do really hate about NZPF (well its not their fault its funding issue from central Government) is their one man stations and one man police cars attending possible accidents that may involve someone being armed. Then we are pretty awful lot of pressure on some poor sod, who has to have a split second to decide what tool to use and if he or she opts to use a firearm its shoot to kill policy none of this Hollywood bullshit of shooting in the leg or arm etc as this is more chance of shooting a bystander than actual target.

                    • Exkiwiforces

                      Whoops, that was for Tracey’s comment.

                    • Fred H

                      No, it’s an easy one. Considering the vast majority of corpses(that have died in a traumatic manner) the police encounter, are killed via suicide or murder box collision this makes the necessity for being constantly armed questionable at best. Remember murders number between 40-50 per annum and the majority don’t involve firearms.
                      Secondly the belief that firearms or deadly levels of violence are an effective deterrent has to got to be the biggest joke that only the most sheltered of morons could think up.
                      Picture you’re a member of the taleban in pashtun country, firstly you haven’t received formal education, are highly religious, believe in the afterlife and your cause, disagree with foreign occupation, have lived through 30 years of civil war, and suffer from a myriad of mental health issues making your appreciation for life threatening situations a little muddy. To top it off you know that western conventional armies in the late 20th and early 21st century have proven to be as effective as tits on a fish(though they like to think otherwise) when it comes to forcibly dictacting the will of a people who choose to fight in an asymmetrical manner. How is answering this person with violence somehow going to bring about a nice cordial relationship? He speaks fluent violentese there’s plenty more where he came from and you can’t negotiate with an IED…
                      Or picture you’re a drug dependent, mentally unwell New Zealander, you suffer from a neglectful, violent, and poverty stricken background, at times you don’t think rationally, you’d like to receive some help, you aren’t concerned with long term consequences such as assets and liberty, so the concept of a cop with a glock or a life sentence doesn’t hold quite the same respect as it does for the lovely law abiding homeowner with wifey, 2.1 kids, and a picket fence. And you’ve previously attempted to top yourself and are also relatively fluent at violentese, but not as proficient as terry that we described above…
                      The concept that the Police should act in an ultra violent and adverserial manner with their own citizenry undermines the reason for their very existence, a society that seeks to dress the wounds of it’s own people can do far more than one that believes it is at war with itself, a society with decent mental health provision, rehabilitative justice, and a comprehensive ‘free’ education can prevent and bring about changes that will see the absence of such high levels of violence that cause such reactionary statements as ‘shoot them’, ‘lock em up’, ‘execute them’. A broken person with nothing to lose cannot be reasoned with with more violence.

                    • Exkiwiforces

                      Fred, there is no need to lecture me about the Taleban which date right to the time Soviet Russia invaded the Gan and I’ve had Ex troops who transferred to RAAC and was blown up twice in one day while conducting a bullshit political task that had no reason to undertaken. This poor lad is more **** up than I am atm.

                      As for the second question,

                      We are putting an awful lot of pressure on our police force who like every other government department that has been run into the ground. These guys every need tool in the toolbox and why is it Fred? It because they are last line in public safety because mental health/ drug rehabilitation clinics are broken. IRT drug related and mental health call outs, the government and joe public thinks it Safe for a single PC blogs to attend to an incident where member or members are or armed due to drug or mental health issue. PC blogs has to make a life or death decision in a split second the because no else wants accept responsibility for the individual or individuals. We are really asking to much from our police forces to make what is really heath system problem.

                      Thirdly I take umbrage that you have brought my mental health problems in the picture which is way below the belt.

                      i’ve Been to hell and back. There are days I wish I wasn’t here or somewhere else. Than having to put with shit from might tough key broad warrior like you when The Department of Dead Veterans Affairs is bad a enough as the police have a union I don’t. In your spare time go to a PTSD clinic to the mess we put our people in or going Peacekeeping like South Sudan, the Congo and my case it East Timor as I handle the Gan Middle East Shit. But Peacekeeping is something else you Muppet.

                      People who PTSD suffer are fighting for there life everyday for the rest of their life regardless of who they are.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      (Supposed to go here)

                      Like my grandfather said. “It’s never the machines fault, it’s always the operators fault.” And. “To forge a weapon you need 3 things, 1) the right metal, temperatures over 1400°, and you need some one who is willing to kill.”

                      Believe it or not. A weapon is also a machine with complex moving parts. An energy source (chemical explosives) and some one with the imagination to use it.

                      People have fantasies of driving machines like Ferrari’s really fast. People also need to have fantasies about hunting rifles in order to select the correct weapon for the job. Some may choose a bow for the silence, some may choose .22 calibre for rabbits. Others may choose a semi auto for use on aerial deer hunts when it’s essential to maximise your shots per fly over in helicopters that typically cost $400 per hour just in fuel. But when some one fantasisiese about purchasing a semi auto with out consideration of the practical purposes in obtaining the correct license. Then you have to question that persons sanity. And his eligibility to purchase the weapon.

                    • Exkiwiforces

                      I had a two .22 mag’s (bolt action& semi auto) fitted with a silencer for the rabbits, ferrets and posiuims.

                      .308 Parker and Hale bolt action for Thar and deers etc.

                      SKS for pigs and goats. Got some good scars from using a old .303 Martini Henry rifle as a youngster and hence why I use a SKS after that.

                      SLR, and M14 for Heli shooting, they were use also for service rifle match shooting to maintain a my shooting/ marksmanship standard due to the defence cuts in 90’s under the National Government and it was the same for the L4 Bren Gun (the 7.62mm version of the old .303 Bren Gun)

                      When I was living in NZ before I left in 98 and my dad took care of them before his license expired as I was only expecting to be away for 10yrs.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      Pig dogs was my style back in NZ all those years ago. Went for a walk mostly. But when it was time to deliver my dogs new what to do. Styles make fights I suppose. Kept my dogs in a caged enclosure with a balcony. Never let the kids fumble around with them, not at all. But when I put there impact vests on they all respected what needed to get done in order to make a delivery of prime New Zealand wild pork.

                      Got into bow hunting for abit. Found it a different kind of chase. Quite technical in many respects, just took a bit more time to set everything up. Iv got some found memories of my APEX bow. Now I just dive for crays off the west coast of Australia. Never could quite kick the habit of just taking off for a bit.

                    • Exkiwiforces

                      I never use dogs and fact they are one our biggest problems atm in almost of all the state pastoral area which gone feral either by dumb redneck piggers or feral camp dog from the communities as attack young stock and evidence suggests they cross breeding with native dingo. The wild pig the second biggest issue in the NT followed horses/ donkeys camels down south of New Castle waters and the buffalo in the very top end.

                      I have mate that does bow hunting for buffs, pigs etc and I think he bloody mad as they are as blind as a bat, but then again I use a 12g double barrel coach Gun with solid shot and he thinks I’m the crazy one.

                      With the wet season slowly upon us, I’m usual out with the 30.30 lever action rifle stalking the wee piggy”s for the spilt, the smoker and goes towards my carb bit / fishing bait. But since I was section I’m now using traps and a bloody big knife which is a bit hit miss.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      Yeah, I keep all my tools locked away in its proper place including my chefs knives and power tools and just take the correct tool out for the appropriate occasion. One of the reasons I don’t hunt wild boar in Australia is because they are diseased. So I don’t put my dogs on them, prefer to keep them locked away just in case they catch something ill, worms and all that.

                    • exkiwiforces

                      The wild pigs around where my bush block are pity good to eat, but I always check first and any waste goes into the crab pot or fishing bait. Further south and around QLD/ NSW where the big razor backs live are full of worms which only good for baiting wild dogs and wild cats. Once I get firearms licence back I’m hoping to try get into Arnhem Land and have crack at the wild cats as they causing all sorts of problems along with wild dogs to the native birds and other native animal species.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      Ah yes. New an old soldier who talked like that. Stalking brought the best out of him as well.

                    • KJT

                      The job of the police is to protect the public.

                      Beating, tasering, chasing them into a tree and shooting them to make it 100% convenient for themselves, is not the job description.

                      It seems from most deaths when the police have guns, that armed police, in most cases make the public, and police, less safe.
                      The USA may not be a good example considering their shoot first culture, but Armed police in Australia havn’t been as effective as some would think.

                      Just as the police were once required to be large and intimidating, (Bigger weapons) it has been found that less physically imposing people, especially women, are more effective in defusing dangerous situations.

                    • exkiwiforces

                      I love the stalk as I was taught by my elders and was later re-enforce when I joined the Army as assault trooper (now called Recon Scout) in NZ Scots Sqn especially when we still had a lot of Vietnam/ South East Asia era guys in at the time like Sam Hoki, a teacher in the fine/ or the dark art of tracking, basic battle/ field craft, Mr Giddens an ex RM from 3Cdo and few others I can’t remember there names. How find sign to track, use the wind to track, smell, understand the weather, vegetation to find water/ what’s eatable and when vegetation is used to cam a ambush site or as a cache site.

                      The Stalk is battle of skill and wits against the animal or human and it’s probably why VC/NVA soldiers in South Vietnam hated the Kiwi’s more than Aussies. Two yrs ago I was the Nui Dat, Dat Do area and I got to talk to some VC vets when I visited VC/ NVA war cemetery off the cuff. The stories they said were wonderful to hear especially where I told that was trained by Vietnam Vets in the NZ Army and later with RAAF ADG’s as they passed on info there was a wee smile from the VC Vets. There was a lot of respect for the ANZAC’s who served in Nam as they knew they were there for Political reasons.

                    • exkiwiforces

                      KTJ,

                      It comes down to training, there was case in NSW last yr at Hornsby when a female copper use a whole mag from he 44mag Glock on a person carry a knife run towards her. Of the 80% of the rounds fired only 2 or 3 rd hit the knife carrying person and rest hit 3 to 4 bystanders or into the gardens/ shop fronts.

                      With drugs like ice and this Zombie/ Hillbilly heron on the streets now the cop’s have to make really fast decision’s on what their course of action is and when they the poor copper is by her or his self like they do in NZ unlike here in OZ or UK and Canada etc. They really don’t have many options left to them especially when the last NZ government has ran the health, mental health systems and Drug Rehab clinics into the ground. It then left to the cops to pick up the pieces because the everyone doesn’t give a crap about some dope up drug or mental health individual until after the poor copper has either tasered or shot the dope up drug individual or if its mental health patient where both person should under the care of the health or their family.

                      If see me go off, I go from Zero to Warp 10 in less than a second, my partner and others who have seen go off say its very scarier and no wonder the poor bloody copper has to use a taser, pepper spray or has use a firearm.

                      It’s going to be fun in late Nov when I travel myself to NZ for a Army reunion especially if I lost the plot at the Airport either in Oz or in NZ over something.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      We called him ‘Dingo. Sir, yes sir, right away sir. My pleasure sir. Or would you like that in a pint, stubby, or stubby holder.’ Thoroughly enjoyed his freedom. Was very honest about enjoying his Liberties. I recall Dingo standing around the entrance to a pub with a few of his boys, some of whom were working the doors when a drunk stumbled over. The drunk looked like he had just come off his swing (rostered hours/days/weeks of work) still in his dirty work gears. So the drunk was denied entry into the pub. An argument ensued, the guy started saying “I earn more money, I’m an MMA fighter blah blah blah.” Angry the drunk pulled a knife and started swinging. Every one immediately stepped back. As that happened the drunk fell to the floor. What happened to the guy happened so fast no one noticed the blade sticking out of the guys bum (his own knife), but not to deep so the guy could hobble home under his own steam. In that respect Dingo was very wise.

                      So it is the responsibility of intellectuals to expose lies and truths. Exposing the deepstate neoliberalism masquerading as capitalism is a primary concern, hopefully no one agrees neoliberalism is wonderful. Never the less capitalism is imperialisms older brother which is a stupid development, no doubt about it. So where does all this come from? Was it developed 30 years ago?

                      It came from colonisation and imposing on the indigenous inhabitants from all over the world, trade barriers, fines, draconian labour laws. And a system of power and control over the population, most notably the police force. Just to protects the rights of foreign interests to control land and profits derived from the land and we are puzzled about how to deal with it.

                      Police brutality didn’t come out of no where. Actions have consequences.

                      So when any one threatens the rights of capitalist to control the population the police will move in and shut the whole game down. But if you ask police officers themselves and they put out plenty of publicly available surveys about what some of them might be thinking. Overwhelming the notions of community policing and reducing harm to the public emerge. But that has nothing to do with the functions they are ostensibly payed to do.

                      What police where payed to do from the beginning was to protect the rights of settlers to till the land that was important to Auckland or any other big capital city globally. It was the responsibility of the police to arrest those that interfered with this form of capitalism. And push every one up into the hills that didn’t conform to the way settlers spoke, thought, or acted. Any one who deviated from the settler way of doing things was labeled a rebel. Today they are typically labeled activists and terrorists, who threaten the rights of transnational corporations to make profit. Never mind that it might destroy the prospects of future generations.

                      If the opinions of the public to protect the prospects of future generations was reflected in the policies that governed the constitution that controls the police. Then a useful set of land rights will have been enabled.

                      So now the shadowy lies are not so opaque and we can go about finding out the truth for an informed decision come the next 2020 elections.

                    • Fred H

                      Firstly you clearly didn’t read the statements I made or counter answer the argument but just doubled down on a non-existent ad hominem attack, which you then proceeded to rebut with an ad hominem response yourself, ‘key broad warrior’ I think you wrote, both an assumption and poor spelling.
                      And where did I mention you personally or your mental health? Or did you want to see that to avoid answering the question?
                      Secondly, claiming you know about the taleban because someone you once knew ran into them (probably more like some cheapo sympathisers that planted a device or shooted and scooted I’d imagine if it was against the kiwi forces) is like saying Rachel Hunter knows loads about music because she used to shag Rod Stewart?
                      And the taleban were formed in 1994-1995 by Mullah Omar and some former Mujahadeen in Kandahar Province in response to the devastation and extortion by the warlords that took power following the Russian occupation….clearly needed a lecture, and how would you know I haven’t served, and maybe in places clearly more horrible than you’re describing? Maybe I just don’t chops off about it and see the failings in thinking that getting rounds down is going to fix domestic issues?

                    • Sam aka clump

                      What was that mountain down south? Maybe you might know. You know the one with the volcanic rock and if you made the mistake of digging in a place that had already been dug up you were informed where to go? It’s on the tip of my tongue just can’t get it out.

                    • McFlock

                      Damn, I quite enjoyed that hunting discussion.

  15. Sparky 15

    More men are actually victims of gun homicide than women but more women are victims of homicide at the hands of spouses and partners in the US.

    So yes guns are a problem for people in the USA both male and female.

    • weka 15.1

      In both cases overwhelmingly the person shooting is a man. People of all genders are victims of violent crime. Who commits violent crimes is specifically gendered.

      Because women are particular victims of violence by men, I’m suggesting we spend more time listening to what women, feminists in particular, are saying about this. In this case, mass shootings, where the violence is overwhelmingly done by men and there is a clear link with gender in terms of victims.

      • Keepcalmcarryon 15.1.1

        We can break this down all sorts of ways weka
        Above, you unfairly label Keith’s comments bigoted but insist on the title you have given the above piece and it reads like “blame men”
        That’s fine and you have form on such issues.
        We could equally look more broadly at gun violence than just multiple shootings and realize in America gun deaths affect men and in particularly black men more than women.
        https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15/guns-and-race-the-different-worlds-of-black-and-white-americans/
        This doesn’t mean men aren’t the main perpetrators, but it does mean we should concentrate on social factors and sensible gun control ( such as we already have) rather than beating all men around the head with this ( and yes that is exactly what you are doing)

        • weka 15.1.1.1

          I’m really happy to amplify the voices of other classes of people who are victims of male violence too. Black men, transgender people, children, men in prisons, all have useful things to share about their experiences and what needs to change.

          But you appear to be saying that we shouldn’t look closely at the perpetrators of male violence. You haven’t said why. Is there is reason?

          “you unfairly label Keith’s comments bigoted”

          The man said that homosexuals are sick and Jews were to blame for the problems in Germany. How is that not bigotry?

          As for blame, I’m sorry you’ve taken it that way, because I went to some trouble to make it clear that in order to talk about solutions we have to be honest about the gendered nature of violence but that this isn’t about making out that men are inherently bad.

          I think men have a particular accountability, you can call that blame I guess but it begs the question of why you appear to want to let men off the hook.

          “but it does mean we should concentrate on social factors”

          Agreed, gendered violence is one of those factors.

          “and sensible gun control ( such as we already have)”

          Which is pretty much what I’ve said, I just don’t think focussing on it in the US situation is going very well.

          “rather than beating all men around the head with this ( and yes that is exactly what you are doing)”

          Interesting how most of the men in this thread didn’t take it that way.

          • Keepcalmcarryon 15.1.1.1.1

            A reasoned response and I thank you for that.
            I think you misunderstand What Keith was saying.
            What I inferred was that it is prejudice to frame a situation as ” men kill people” just as it is to say “muslims car bomb people ” because the huge majority of people in those subsets do not.
            Keith’s examples were- I think- illustrations of the same point. That you found such claims bigoted might further illustrate his whole point.
            Because most men here didn’t claim offense doesn’t make something inoffensive.
            Think of a man cracking sexist jokes that most women at the party didn’t object to but which quietly offended others as a comparison. Also (fortunately or not) the subset of men who post here are not a balanced representation of either the population of nz or the web.
            Lastly yes, repressed feelings of disempowerment are all too often mixed with macho aggression with violent consequences and that cycle should be broken.

            • Carolyn_nth 15.1.1.1.1.1

              Probably most guns don’t kill people, either. But guns do kill a helluva lot of people – one of the main weapons used to kill people.

              Weka didn’t say ALL men kill people. Statistically, it’s mostly men who kill, especially these mass public shootings – and that was what weka is referring to – and it has been discussed well here today.

              Car bombs have been used a lot in recent years in the Middle East, but, over time, there have certainly been a lot of non-Muslims using them, including the IRA, Vietnamese, Colombian mobsters…

              But, more usually the negative stereotype is that Muslims are terrorists – and basically, there are people from diverse groups using terror tactics, and against civilians – it’s no predominantly a Muslim thing.

            • weka 15.1.1.1.1.2

              It’s possible I misunderstood Keith’s comment. I did read it a number of times and found it hard to parse. When I called him a bigot that was me taking his words at face value, that he thinks homosexual people are sick. He’s welcome to come and clear up what he meant.

              You still didn’t answer my question,

              “But you appear to be saying that we shouldn’t look closely at the perpetrators of male violence. You haven’t said why. Is there is reason?”

              Other than it looks to me like you are taking personal offence at something I am not doing (blaming all men for the acts of a few). I might be wrong about that but what I am seeing from you is a number of assertions (e.g. about what I am doing) without backing that up or demonstrating why you might be right.

              I’m also not seeing much in the way of refutal of the post apart from getting that you don’t like it.

              IME these conversations can’t really go anywhere unless both sides are willing to dig deeper and explain what they mean.

  16. Priss 16

    Americans could live in a more peaceful society if they didn’t insist on playing with their lethal toys. Here in NZ we can walk along a street, go to a mall or theatre or church or college, and not risk being shot by a crazed gunman.

    It is a crazy situation, allowing lethal weapons to be freely available and then being surprised when lunatics go on a shooting rampage. What did they expect would happen??

    The “right to bear arms” should have gone out with “the right to own slaves”. Both are way past their use-by date.

    Until Americans realise this simple truism they will continue to live in a blood-drenched society.
    What a place to raise children in!

  17. Cinny 17

    Wows I’ve sure learnt something today… NRATV… no bloody wonder there are problems.

    Check out how the marketing is directed, this is highly crafted propaganda from every angle.

    • Cinny 17.1

      Far out…

      • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1

        On the other hand we have this:

        I’d ask each and everyone of these celebrities how much money they made from movies or TV shows that glamourized the use of firearms or how many of their security are armed, how many live in gated communities, how many have the police close by

        • Cinny 17.1.1.1

          Good point, do they walk the talk with this ad? Thanks for posting it PR

          I’m still amazed at the lengths of the NRA propaganda machine

        • Fred H 17.1.1.2

          So that bullsh*t ad hominem argument somehow invalidates their point?? Peter Dinklage glorified dragons, he so can’t criticize the illegal trade of komodo lizards the hypocrite as he somehow benefited, I heard Beyonce benefited from glorifying 1970’s British spies with bad teeth so she can’t criticize terrorism laws or the MI6

          • Cinny 17.1.1.2.1

            Fred, it carries a bit more weight if they walk the talk, don’t you think?

            A Dutch take on the NRA

            • Fred H 17.1.1.2.1.1

              Without a massive platform(the above individuals all have one) walking the talk is merely going to get you heard at the local bar/church/blogsite, it’s why so many personalities with platforms get elected as heads of state and the honest sorts are ignored…walking becomes irrelevant in a world of mass media

  18. mpledger 18

    The first segment of This American Live episode 545 is about a women who talks to a man who had been trolling her and they talk quite openly about what his motivations were.
    https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/545/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say-say-it-in-all-caps

    It’s worth listening too.

  19. Juno 19

    Hi, The evidence is that carrying a gun will not protect against gun crime. You are buying into an NRA fuelled myth that has contributed to the current situation in the USA. I cringe to see the following paragraph presented in this country as sensible comment. Very few USA women carry guns and the vast majority of USA women support gun control. There is a concerted ongoing effort to persuade women to buy and carry guns but it appears to be largely a failure. I feel deeply sorry for your friend and her fantasies about self-sufficiency.

    “I have a friend who lives in a self-sufficient, rural part of the US. She once asked me how women in NZ protect themselves from sexual assault if they don’t carry a gun. Where she lives that kind of protection is necessary and normal and she has a hand gun as well as her hunting rifles. It was a fair question, not easily answered, but most interesting for me is thinking about where my pro gun-control politics would be at if I lived in the part of the world she does.”

    I recommend subscribing to and reading The Trace if you are interested in firearms issues and research in the USA.
    Here is there archive. https://www.thetrace.org/category/data/
    They have reported directly on research about the impact of owning guns on outcomes but I can’t see that as a topic. You might want to email them and ask.
    Kind regards,
    Juno

    • weka 19.1

      Thanks Juno. I wasn’t suggesting that women in the US carry guns to protect themselves, nor that they should have to. Nor was I suggesting that my friend’s situation applies to all or most women in the US. It’s not a fantasy for her, she lives that shit and makes her choices accordingly. She’s not been propagandised by the NRA either, but simply lives in a part of the country where women having guns is normal. Given her lifetime of experience with male violence I don’t think you get to tell her she’s fantasising.

      The reason I wrote about her situation was in the context of the overall point of the post. That violence is gendered, both in that men commit most of it, and often they target women. I’m not saying women in the US should arm themselves, I’m suggesting to NZ liberals who react to another mass shooting by exclaiming ‘gun control!’ that they also need to focus on solving male violence. Yes gun control is needed and will save lives, but it’s not sufficient. I personally no longer believe that the US will be able to do anything substantial about gun violence and mass shootings until it addresses male violence in general.

  20. Angel Fish 20

    Meanwhile in Saudi Arabia, women are only now enjoying their right to drive vehicles!
    But yeah, let’s make no mention of the degeneracy of Ideologies like Islam
    and it’s oppressive effects on women. Let’s just vilify all men by the actions of a few lunatics, eventhough there is literally nothing that connects all men in general, other than possessing certain sex organs… What a joke.
    Women are thriving in the west, especially in higher education.

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  • The Left’s Joyous Cherub: Keith Locke, 1944 – 2024.
    The Struggle Continues: Keith Locke belonged to a generation that still believed in a world that could be, through struggle, relieved of its chains. That struggle constituted the core of a life lived with purpose, courage and determination. MANY NEW ZEALANDERS would, no doubt, have been surprised to discover that Keith Locke was ...
    24 hours ago
  • The Night Before Yule: A Reprint
    A couple of my stories – A Breath Through Silver, and The Last Libation – have previously earned themselves reprints. Well, I am pleased to report that the nice people at Heroic Fantasy Quarterly (https://www.heroicfantasyquarterly.com/) have included my narrative horror-poem, The Night Before Yule, in their newly-compiled Best Of anthology. ...
    1 day ago
  • Bernard’s mid-winter pick ‘n’ mix for Monday, June 24
    TL;DR: Responding to the grounding of the Aratere over the weekend, the Government has signalled it will buy new replacement ferries, but only enough to replace existing freight capacity.That would effectively limit Aotearoa-NZ’s ability to handle any growth in population or the need to reduce emissions by shifting freight from ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Greater Auckland 2.0 – we need your help!
    Hi, we’re Greater Auckland. We’ve been a part of the landscape for over 15 years now. Over that time, we’ve provided informed commentary, evidence-based analysis, and inspiring visions for the future of Tāmaki Makaurau. You might know us from such hits as: The Congestion-Free Network 2013 (and its 2017 ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    1 day ago
  • Distractions and Inaction.
    Fancy, a fast carA bag full of lootI can nearly guaranteeYou'll end up with the bootThe Prime Minister arrived home, perhaps a bit surprised, maybe even secretly a little pleased at the diversion, to find the country falling apart. Things going more badly that even his c-list, self back-slapping, trip ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 day ago
  • KiwiRail aground while Government obfuscates
    The problems at KiwiRail go further and deeper than the maintenance issue, which caused the inter-island ferry Aratere to run aground on Saturday. The company is also the subject of a damning report published last week about the way it runs its rail operations from the Transport Accident Investigation Commission. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 day ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #25
    A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, June 16, 2024 thru Sat, June 22, 2024. Stories we promoted this week, by publication date: Before June 16 ‘Unprecedented mass coral bleaching’ expected in 2024, says expert, ...
    2 days ago
  • The Realm Of The Possible.
    The People’s House: What would it be like to live in a country where a single sermon could prick the conscience of the comfortable? Where a journalist could rouse a whole city to action? Where the government could be made to respond to the people’s concerns? Where real change was possible? And ...
    2 days ago
  • Public Service Day
    Good morn or evening friendsHere's your friendly announcerI have serious news to pass on to everybodyWhat I'm about to sayCould mean the world's disasterCould change your joy and laughter to tears and painIt's thatLove's in need of love todayDon't delaySend yours in right awayHate's goin' 'roundBreaking many heartsStop it pleaseBefore ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • When is a road of National significance not a road of National significance?
    I loved everything about my first Cook Strait ferry crossing: a day parked in the car in howling Wellington wind and driving Wellington rain, waiting to hear if they were going to sail or not; watching the huge black ministerial limousines come and go; listening to the adventures of Chicken ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • Fact Brief – Was the Medieval Warm Period a global event?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by John Mason in collaboration with members from the Gigafact team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Was the Medieval Warm Period a global ...
    3 days ago
  • Aotearoa Runs Aground
    Your face has fallen sad nowFor you know the time is nighWhen I must remove your wingsAnd you, you must try to flyCome sail your ships around meAnd burn your bridges downWe make a little history, babyEvery time you come aroundWhen I went to bed last night I thought the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Wagon keeps movin'
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past somewhat interrupted week. Still on the move!Share Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Mainstreaming Māori
    Mainstreaming need not be inherently anti-Māori. It will be if it is done badly because it will be anti-those-in need, and proportionally more of them are Māori.That the Coalition Government says it will deliver public services on the basis of need rather than, say, race deserves consideration, even though many ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • National says “fuck you”
    The Justice Committee has reported back on the government's racist bill to eliminate Māori representation in local government. The report duly notes the Waitangi Tribunal's finding that the bill breaches te Tiriti, and the bill's inconsistency with our international human rights obligations - and then proceeds to ignore both. Instead, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Christopher Luxon is – Big in Japan
    This week our Prime Minister Christopher Luxon… mmm, let’s take a moment to consider just how good that sounds. Hope you weren’t eating.Anyway that guy. Better? That bloke from the telly, he said - what I would say to you is… I’m big in Japan. My kind of people, hard ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 21-June-2024
    Tis the winter solstice! The shortest day and longest night of the year. The good news: we’re on our way back to summertime. Here’s another roundup of stories to brighten up your Friday. Our header image is from CRL and shows Waihorotiu Station lit up for Matariki 2024 The ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s mid-winter pick ‘n’ mix for Friday, June 21
    Our economic momentum remains anaemic, and it’s possible the tiny increase in GDP was a ‘dead cat bounce’. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Per-capita GDP has fallen 4.3% from its peak over the last 21 months, which is more than it it fell in the Global Financial Crisis recession ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The Futility of Punishment
    Hi,I was in Texas recently and couldn’t stop thinking about how in some parts of America they really like to kill their prisoners. As a society we tend to agree murder is wrong, but somewhere along the way Texas figured it’s fine if it’s after 6pm and the killing is ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    4 days ago
  • The new Beehive approach to the environment
    A persistent theme has been weaving between the Committee rooms at Parliament all this so-called “Scrutiny” week as MPs have probed Ministers and agencies about their work and plans. The question has been simply what the environmental price might be if the country begins to accelerate its infrastructure building to ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #25 2024
    Open access notables Climate Change Is Leading to a Convergence of Global Climate Distribution, Li et al., Geophysical Research Letters: The impact of changes in global temperatures and precipitation on climate distribution remains unclear. Taking the annual global average temperatures and precipitation as the origin, this study determined the climate distribution with the ...
    5 days ago
  • You take nicer pictures when you’re not drunk
    Readers keeping count will know it's more than five years since I gave up booze. Some of you get worried on my behalf when I recount a possibly testing moment. Anxious readers: today I got well tested.All the way across France I've been enquiring in my very polite and well-meaning but ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • Cancer
    Turn awayIf you could, get me a drinkOf water 'cause my lips are chapped and fadedCall my Aunt MarieHelp her gather all my thingsAnd bury me in all my favourite coloursMy sisters and my brothers, stillI will not kiss you'Cause the hardest part of this is leaving youI remember the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on why we shouldn’t buy new planes for the PM
    Its not often that one has to agree with Judith Collins, but yes, it would indeed cost “hundreds of millions of dollars” (at least) to buy replacement aircraft to fly the Prime Minister on his overseas missions of diplomacy and trade. And yes, the public might well regard that spending ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    5 days ago
  • The Stadium Debate – What About the Transport Options?
    A few weeks ago, Auckland Council took another step in the long-running stadium saga, narrowing its shortlist down to two options for which they will now seek feasibility studies. The recommendation to move forward with a feasibility study was carried twenty to one by the council’s Governing Body for the ...
    5 days ago
  • Bernard’s mid-winter pick ‘n’ mix for Thursday, June 20
    Social Development Minister Louise Upston has defended the Government’s decision to save money by dumping a programme which tops up the pay of disabled workers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: It has emerged the National-ACT-NZ First Government decided to cut wages for disabled workers from the minimum wage to $2 an hour ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Where the power really resides in Wellington
    The new Chief Executive of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) yesterday gave a Select Committee a brutally frank outline of the department’s role as the agency right at the centre of power in Wellington. Ben King, formerly a deputy Chief Executive at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Climate Adam: Why we're still losing the fight against Methane
    This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Carbon dioxide is the main culprit behind climate change. But in second place is methane: a greenhouse gas stronger than CO2, ...
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: More ETS failure
    A few weeks ago, I blogged about the (then) upcoming ETS auction, raising the prospect of it failing, leaving the government with a messy budget hole. The auction was today, and indeed, it failed. In fact, it was such a failure that no-one even bothered to bid. Its easy to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The Return of Jacinda.
    Oh, take me, take me, take meTo the dreamer's ballI'll be right on time and I'll dress so fineYou're gonna love me when you see meI won't have to worryTake me, take mePromise not to wake me'Til it's morningIt's all been trueEarly morning yesterday, well before dawn, doom-scrolling.Not intentionally, that’s ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • How good is the interim NW busway?
    This is a guest post by Pshem Kowalczyk, a long-time follower of the blog. With great fanfare, just over six months ago (on 12 November 2023), AT launched its interim busway for the NorthWest region, with the new WX express service at the heart of the changes. I live ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    6 days ago
  • Consumer confidence collapses after Budget, in contrast with rest of world
    The first widespread survey of consumers and voters since the Budget on May 30 shows a collapse in confidence. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The belt-tightening and tax-cutting Budget delivered on May 30 has not delivered the boost to confidence in the economy the National-ACT-NZ First Government might have ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • The end for the Air Force 757s
    The Air Force 757 that broke down with the Prime Minister on board in Port Moresby on Sunday is considered so unreliable that it carries a substantial stock of spare parts when it travels overseas. And the plane also carries an Air Force maintenance team on board ready to make ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago
  • At a glance – Was 1934 the hottest year on record?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    7 days ago
  • It's not New Zealand they've never heard of, it's him
    Sometimes you’ll just be so dog-tired, you can only keep yourself awake with a short stab of self-inflicted pain.A quick bite of the lip, for instance.Maybe a slight bite on the tongue or a dig of the nails.But what if you’re needing something a bit more painful?The solution is as ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago
  • Some “scrutiny” II
    Last month I blogged about the Ministry of Justice's Open Government Partnership commitment to strengthen scrutiny of Official Information Act exemption clauses in legislation", and how their existing efforts did not give much reason for confidence. As part of that, I mentioned that I had asked the Ministry for its ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on why the Biden “peace plan” for Gaza is doomed
    After months and months of blocking every attempt by the UN and everyone else to achieve a Gaza ceasefire, US President Joe Biden is now marketing his own three-stage “peace plan” to end the conflict. Like every other contribution by the US since October 7, the Biden initiative is hobbled ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    1 week ago
  • Raised crossings: hearing the voice of vulnerable pedestrians
    This is a guest post by Vivian Naylor, who is the Barrier Free Advisor and Educator at CCS Disability Action, Northern Region, the largest disability support and advocacy organisation in Aotearoa New Zealand. She also advises on AT’s Public Transport and Capital Projects Accessibility Groups. Vivian has been advocating and ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    1 week ago
  • Leaving on a Jet Plane
    So kiss me and smile for meTell me that you'll wait for meHold me like you'll never let me go'Cause I'm leavin' on a jet planeDon't know when I'll be back againOh babe, I hate to go“The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Bernard's mid-winter pick 'n' mix for Tuesday, June 18
    The election promises of ‘better economic management’ are now ringing hollow, as NZ appears to be falling into a deeper recession, while other economies are turning the corner. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The economy and the housing market are slumping back into a deep recession this winter, contrasting ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • Scrutiny week off to rocky start
    Parliament’s new “Scrutiny” process, which is supposed to allow Select Committees to interrogate Ministers and officials in much more depth, has got off to a rocky start. Yesterday was the first day of “Scrutiny Week” which is supposed to see the Government grilled on how it spends taxpayers’ money and ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago
  • The choice could not be more stark’: How Trump and Biden compare on climate change
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Barbara Grady Illustration by Samantha Harrington. Photo credits: Justin Lane-Pool/Getty Images, Win McNamee/Getty Images, European Space Agency. In an empty wind-swept field in Richmond, California, next to the county landfill, a company called RavenSr has plotted out land and won ...
    1 week ago
  • Differentiating between democracy and republic
    Although NZ readers may not be that interested in the subject and in lieu of US Fathers Day missives (not celebrated in NZ), I thought I would lay out some brief thoughts on a political subject being debated in the … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Bernard's mid-winter pick 'n' mix for Monday, June 17
    TL;DR: Chris Bishop talks up the use of value capture, congestion charging, PPPs, water meters, tolling and rebating GST on building materials to councils to ramp up infrastructure investment in the absence of the Government simply borrowing more to provide the capital.Meanwhile, Christopher Luxon wants to double the number of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • You do have the power to change things
    When I was invited to come aboard and help with Greater Auckland a few months ago (thanks to Patrick!), it was suggested it might be a good idea to write some sort of autobiographical post by way of an introduction. This post isn’t quite that – although I’m sure I’lll ...
    Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Turning Away – Who Cares If We Don't?
    On the turning awayFrom the pale and downtroddenAnd the words they say which we won't understandDon't accept that, what's happeningIs just a case of other's sufferingOr you'll find that you're joining inThe turning awayToday’s guest kōrero is from Author Catherine Lea. So without further ado, over to Catherine…I’m so honoured ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Dissecting Tickled
    Hi,Tickled was one of the craziest things that ever happened to me (and I feel like a lot of crazy things have happened to me).So ahead of the Webworm popup and Tickled screening in New Zealand on July 13, I thought I’d write about how we made that film and ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand Webworm Popup + Tickled!
    Hi,I’m doing a Webworm merch popup followed by a Tickled screening in Auckland, New Zealand on July 13th — and I’d love you to come. I got the urge to do this while writing this Webworm piece breaking down how we made Tickled, and talking to all the people who ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    1 week ago
  • What China wants from NZ business
    One simple statistic said it all: China Premier Li Qiang asked Fonterra CEO Miles Hurrell what percentage of the company’s overall sales were made in China. “Thirty per cent,” said Hurrell. In other words, New Zealand’s largest company is more or less dependent on the Chinese market. But Hurrell is ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago
  • Review: The Worm Ouroboros, by E.R. Eddison (1922)
    One occasionally runs into the question of what J.R.R. Tolkien would have thought of George R.R. Martin. For years, I had a go-to online answer: we could use a stand-in. Tolkien’s thoughts on E.R. Eddison – that he appreciated the invented world, but thought the invented names were silly, and ...
    1 week ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #24
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, June 9, 2024 thru Sat, June 15, 2024. Story of the week A glance at this week's inventory of what experts tell us is extreme weather mayhem juiced by ...
    1 week ago
  • Sunday Morning Chat
    After a busy week it’s a good day to relax. Clear blues skies here in Tamaki Makaurau, very peaceful but for my dogs sleeping heavily. In the absence of a full newsletter I thought I’d send out a brief update and share a couple of posts that popped up in ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • The Book of Henry
    Now in the land of Angus beef and the mighty ABsWhere the steaks were juicy and the rivers did run foulIt would often be said,This meal is terrible,andNo, for real this is legit the worst thing I've ever eatenBut this was an thing said only to others at the table,not ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • Fact Brief – Is ocean acidification from human activities enough to impact marine ecosystems?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from the Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is ocean acidification from human ...
    1 week ago
  • Happiness is a Warm Gun
    She's not a girl who misses muchDo do do do do do, oh yeahShe's well-acquainted with the touch of the velvet handLike a lizard on a window paneI wouldn’t associate ACT with warmth, other than a certain fabled, notoriously hot, destination where surely they’re heading and many would like them ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Still doing a good 20
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past somewhat interrupted week. Still on the move!Share Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • Coalition of the Unwilling?
    What does Budget 2024 tell us about the current government? Muddle on?Coalition governments are not new. About 50 percent of the time since the first MMP election, there has been a minority government, usually with allied parties holding ministerial portfolios outside cabinets. For 10 percent of the time there was ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    2 weeks ago
  • Of red flags and warning signs in comments on social media
    Somewhat surprisingly for what is regarded as a network of professionals, climate science misinformation is getting shared on LinkedIn, joining other channels where this is happening. Several of our recent posts published on LinkedIn have attracted the ire of various commenters who apparently are in denial about human-caused climate change. Based ...
    2 weeks ago
  • All good, still
    1. On what subject is Paul Henry even remotely worth giving the time of day?a. The state of our nationb. The state of the ACT partyc. How to freak out potential buyers of your gin palace by baking the remains of your deceased parent into its fittings2. Now that New ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 weeks ago
  • The looting is the point
    Last time National was in power, they looted the state, privatising public assets and signing hugely wasteful public-private partnership (PPP) contracts which saw foreign consortiums provide substandard infrastructure while gouging us for profits. You only have to look at the ongoing fiasco of Transmission Gully to see how it was ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The Illusion of Power: How Local Government Bureaucrats Overawe Democratically-Elected Councillors..
    The Democratic Façade Of Local Government: Our district and city councillors are democratically elected to govern their communities on one very strict condition – that they never, ever, under any circumstances, attempt to do so.A DISINTEGRATION OF LOYALTIES on the Wellington City Council has left Mayor Tory Whanau without a ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Lowlights & Bright Spots
    I can feel the lowlights coming over meI can feel the lowlights, from the state I’m inI can see the light now even thought it’s dimA little glow on the horizonAnother week of lowlights from our government, with the odd bright spot and a glow on the horizon. The light ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 weeks ago
  • Weekly Roundup 14-June-2024
    Another week, another roundup of things that caught our eye on our favourite topics of transport, housing and how to make cities a little bit greater. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday, Connor wrote about Kāinga Ora’s role as an urban development agency Tuesday’s guest post by ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    2 weeks ago
  • The Hoon around the week to June 14
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers features co-hosts and talking with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent about the National-ACT-NZ First Government’s moves this week to take farming out of the ETS and encourage more mining and oil and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate policy axed in broad daylight, while taxpayer liabilities grow in the dark
    In 2019, Shane Jones addressed the “50 Shades of Green” protest at Parliament: Now he is part of a government giving those farmers a pass on becoming part of the ETS, as well as threatening to lock in offshore oil exploration and mining for decades. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s the ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 weeks ago
  • Rage Bait!
    Hi,Today’s newsletter is all about how easy it is to get sucked into “rage bait” online, and how easy it is to get played.But first I wanted to share something that elicited the exact opposite of rage in me — something that made me feel incredibly proud, whilst also making ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    2 weeks ago
  • Bernard's Dawn Chorus and pick 'n' mix for Friday, June 14
    Seymour said lower speed limits “drained the joy from life as people were forced to follow rules they knew made no sense.” File Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things to note in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Friday, June 14 were:The National/ACT/NZ First ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 weeks ago
  • Friendly but frank talks with China Premier
    It sounded like the best word to describe yesterday’s talks between Chinese Premier Li Qiang and his heavyweight delegation of Ministers and officials and Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and New Zealand Ministers and officials was “frank.” But it was the kind of frankness that friends can indulge in. It ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 weeks ago

  • Government introduces Three Strikes Bill
    The Government has introduced a Bill today to restore the Three Strikes sentencing law, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee says. “New Zealanders are rightly concerned about violent crime. We are delivering on our commitment to introduce a revised Three Strikes law as one of our key law and order priorities.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • New support for agricultural emissions reduction
    The Government and the Bank of New Zealand (BNZ) are together committing an additional $8 million towards AgriZeroNZ to boost New Zealand’s efforts to reduce agricultural emissions. Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says the strength of the New Zealand economy relies on effective and affordable emission reduction solutions for New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Government actions strengthening Māori success
    Tākina Puanga. Ko Puanga kei runga. Ko Puanga e Rangi. Tākina mai te ara o Puanga nui o te rangi. Tākina ngā pou o te tau. Ki te whai ao ki te ao marama. Puanga or Rigel celebrations reflect a renewed energy across our communities – to acknowledge those who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Transformative investment in cancer treatments and more new medicines
    The coalition Government is delivering up to 26 cancer treatments as part of an overall package of up to 54 more new medicines, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti and Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. “Pharmac estimates that around 175,000 people will benefit from the additional treatments in just ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • More support for drought-affected communities
    The coalition Government is providing more financial support to drought-stricken farmers and growers in many parts of the country to help with essential living costs. “Rural Assistance Payments have been made available in 38 districts affected by dry conditions to help eligible farmers and growers whose income has taken a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Job seekers to report on progress after six months from today
    A new requirement for people on Jobseeker Support benefits to meet with MSD after six months to assess how their job search is going gets underway today. About 20,000 Jobseeker beneficiaries with full-time work obligations are expected to attend MSD’s new ‘Work check-in’ seminars over the next 12 months, Social ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New cops means more Police on the beat
    The decision to deploy more Police on the beat in Auckland CBD has been welcomed by Police Minister Mark Mitchell and Associate Police Minister Casey Costello. Starting from 1 July, an additional 21 police officers will be redeployed in Auckland City, bringing the total number of beat police in the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government takes action to address youth crime
    The Government is introducing a new declaration for young offenders to ensure they face tougher consequences and are better supported to turn their lives around, Children’s Minister Karen Chhour announced today. The establishment of a Young Serious Offender declaration delivers on a coalition Government commitment and supports the Government’s target ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Reserve Bank chair reappointed
    Professor Neil Quigley has been reappointed as Chair of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Board for a further term of two years, until 30 June 2026.  “Professor Quigley has played a key role in establishing the new Board after the commencement of the new RBNZ Act on 1 July ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • School attendance increases
    School attendance data released today shows an increase in the number of students regularly attending school to 61.7 per cent in term one. This compares to 59.5 per cent in term one last year and 53.6 per cent in term four. “It is encouraging to see more children getting to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Record investment in public transport services
    The Government has announced a record 41 per cent increase in indicative funding for public transport services and operations, and confirmed the rollout of the National Ticketing Solution (NTS) that will enable contactless debit and credit card payments starting this year in Auckland, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“This Government is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • GDP data shows need to strengthen and grow the economy
    GDP figures for the March quarter reinforce the importance of restoring fiscal discipline to public spending and driving more economic growth, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  Data released today by Stats NZ shows GDP has risen 0.2 per cent for the quarter to March.   “While today’s data is technically in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Women continue to make up over 50 per cent on public sector boards
    Women’s representation on public sector boards and committees has reached 50 per cent or above for the fourth consecutive year, with women holding 53.9 per cent of public sector board roles, Acting Minister for Women Louise Upston says. “This is a fantastic achievement, but the work is not done. To ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government supporting Māori business success
    The Coalition Government is supporting Māori to boost development and the Māori economy through investment in projects that benefit the regions, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka say. “As the Regional Development Minister, I am focused on supporting Māori to succeed. The Provincial Growth Fund ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Better solutions for earthquake-prone buildings
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