Harawira’s recount bid did not “backfire”

155 comments on “Harawira’s recount bid did not “backfire” ”

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1. Bruce 1

   9 October 2014 at 3:45 pm

   [deleted]

   [lprent: You didn’t read the post. Banned for 4 weeks for diversion trolling. ]
   • The Other Mike 1.1

     9 October 2014 at 3:50 pm

     Well done on missing the entire point of the OP, Bruce.
2. Realblue 2

   9 October 2014 at 3:49 pm

   A bit harsh there, he’s entitled to ask for a recount. [deleted]

   [lprent: You didn’t read the post. I will be a bit harsh here – banned for 4 weeks for diversion trolling. Also just be grateful that I don’t have time today to look to see if you are talking to yourself. I’d give you a really good ban for sockpuppetting. ]
3. Picard101 3

   9 October 2014 at 4:07 pm

   I’m sorry but I simply do not agree that this was a purely altruistic maneuver by Hone. He was hoping to win.

   He was going on about 100s, if not 1000s of votes early this week/late last week. As well as boasting about not having conceded meaning he could jet around the place on the taxpayers dime to visit mates. He really did not believe that the voters had gone with someone else.

   Yes he has some fantastic ideas and desires, especially when it comes to kids and the poor of our country, but almost all his good will in the country will be gone after this mess. Refusing to concede and showing off that he can run around on the taxpayers dime (which wasnt true),claiming acts of racism at polling booths, which he never produced any evidence of, claiming 100s/1000s of votes were illegally invalidated, demanding a recount and IMO being less than honest for his reasoning, is it any wonder his political foes are having a field day?

   It is time for Hone to just go. Accept the voters wishes and just go.
   • Chris 3.1

     9 October 2014 at 8:06 pm

     Yes, you’re right. Hone will go, for three years. Then he’ll be back. Is that okay with you?
     • Picard101 3.1.1

       9 October 2014 at 9:09 pm

       Hone won’t be back.
4. Gonzo 4

   9 October 2014 at 4:08 pm

   What should they have said on Stuff then. Maybe Harawira kicks own goal?

   It is after all a headline and I have seen a few quite inventive ones even on this site, for instance “John Key’s police poodles”. Clearly they are not poodles regardless of your opinion.

   [lprent: It appear you didn’t read the post either. 4 weeks ban for diversion trolling. Don’t these morans ever use their brains or read the policy. They are like lemmings ]
   • wekarawshark 4.1

     9 October 2014 at 4:14 pm

     It’s a metaphor. You understand what someone means when they say someone is a poodle? If you disagree that the police have that kind of relationship with Key then say so, but saying they aren’t poodles is just stupid.

     Likewise, Harawira didn’t kick an own goal, because the reason for the recount wasn’t to increase his vote. I doubt he gives too much of a shit about the numbers. He wanted the votes looked at because of voter suppression issues. Did you even read the post? What was so difficult to understand?
   • McFlock 4.2

     9 October 2014 at 4:18 pm

     The problem is not the use of an analogy in a headline.
     The problem is that the analogy apparently illustrated a lie.

     Harawira did not “bid to overturn the result”, he “wanted independent scrutiny of the results”. Tacked in at the end of the stuff article, it appears the objective was achieved (my italics):

     Judge Broadmore said he would issue a further judgement relating to matters that came to his attention during the recount, and which of concern to the parties, but which had not affected the result.

     It’s a very short post you commented on. I’m surprised you missed the point.
5. NeutObserver 5

   9 October 2014 at 4:09 pm

   Backfire is not the word. “Roundly defeated” is the more appropriate term
   • wekarawshark 5.1

     9 October 2014 at 4:15 pm

     I haven’t looked. Is Harawira’s vote more or less than 2011?
     • swordfish 5.1.1

       9 October 2014 at 5:11 pm

       Party Vote Te Tai Tokerau 2011-14

       2011……………………………………………………….2014………..
       Lab……. 6855 ……….34.7%…………….8033……….35.5%
       Mana…. 4844……….24.5%…………….4247……….18.8%
       Maori…. 2208……….11.2%…………….2301……….10.2%
       NZF…… 1950 ……….9.9%………………3296……….14.6%
       Nat…… 1814…………9.2%……………..1938………..8.6%
       Green… 1704…………8.6%……………..2275……….10.0%

       Candidate Vote Te Tai Tokerau 2011-14

       2011………………………………………………………2014………..
       Lab…….6956……….37.1%…………….9710……….44.8%
       Mana….8121……….43.3%…………….8971……….41.3%
       Maori….3114……….16.6%…………….2565……….11.8%
       ALCP…….559………..3.0%…….Ind…….451……….2.1%

       2014 = does not include recount
6. adam 6

   9 October 2014 at 4:16 pm

   And the racist come out of the woodwork.

   I’m pretty sure all the jingoists want our army to go to war – an army which is made up of predominantly maori.

   So why is it when a Maori leader ask what is happening to Maori votes – they coming spewing their vial rubbish?

   Is it that you hate Maori so much you think their votes are worse less?

   And I can attest to the second part of his statement, I have watched some pretty ignorant dealings by staff at polling booths over the years – especially of my Kāi Tahu friends.
   • Rob 6.1

     9 October 2014 at 4:56 pm

     “So why is it when a Maori leader ask what is happening to Maori votes – they coming spewing their vial rubbish? ”

     We actually do know what happened to the Maori votes in this electorate, the majority voted for Labour. You just don’t like the result do you?
     • adam 6.1.1

       9 October 2014 at 5:09 pm

       Can you read rob? I’m serious, in the context of the original post?

       Do you understand why he asked for what he asked for?

       Is this you trying to be a Politically Correct racist, and hiding it around the electoral result?
     • GregJ 6.1.2

       9 October 2014 at 8:39 pm

       I think you mean a plurality voted for Labour and the Labour candidate not a majority.
7. The Real Matthew 7

   9 October 2014 at 4:17 pm

   A recount was a strange way to try and address the issues Hone was raising.

   Andrew Geddis has written an excellent piece on the situation over at Pundit (apologies if we aren’t allowed to link to other blogs) http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/hones-last-stand

   [lprent: Link all you like. The trick is not to just dump a link in or to drop in links that are not relevant to the post of comments (that is known as link-whoring), but to provide a reason why people should click on it.

   You did well. Thank you. Have a look at the policy. It describes the types of behaviours that the moderators will get pissed about, and those that are allowed. ]
   • wekarawshark 7.1

     9 October 2014 at 4:34 pm

     Linking is good.
   • wekarawshark 7.2

     9 October 2014 at 4:54 pm

     “A recount was a strange way to try and address the issues Hone was raising.”

     It’s taken me a while to get it. I thought at first there was something about the recount that would make any irregularities on voting day apparent. But now I think it’s more that Harawira used the recount in two ways. One is to get a whole bunch of people talking (achieved), and the other is to get the recount judge to say something (judgement not out yet).

     If Harawira had not asked for a recount and had simply raised the voter suppression issues, then I think it would have gotten a days coverage in the media and then sunk like a stone. These issues were being raised well before the recount, but no-one was paying much attention. Now they are.
     • Picard101 7.2.1

       9 October 2014 at 5:46 pm

       The problem for Hone is the story is going to be about him having less votes than he got on the night, and he will be seen as a petulant child by the general public for demanding this recount. Most people will see this as a failed attempt by Hone to overturn the vote on the night, and it failed. He will be made to look like a joke.

       He has not helped his cause by running around saying he gets to keep his free travel by not conceding, which was just untrue. Nor claiming racism or intimidation at the polling booths with zero hard evidence presented.

       If is intent was to bring to light potential illegal activities, (which as I stated above, I personally do not buy) then he has failed. So unless the judge finds that Maori voters were turned away in the 1000’s by white people screaming racist abuse at them, then this will be a dead story.
       • wekarawshark 7.2.1.1

         9 October 2014 at 6:04 pm

         fuck the MSM and fuck the white people who want to write this off. Harawira’s knows what he is about. You think he doesn’t know what the MSM will do? You think Māori don’t understand full well how the MSM misreprents them and their issues? Seriously?

         Just consider that Harawira may be quite aware of the things you raise, and factored them into his strategy.

         From my Pākehā perspective I think that the white people in NZ who support anti-racism work will be paying attention and will be working through the issues in themselves and getting to a place of understanding and tautoko. But I think that Harawira will be operating out of a world view that most Pākehā are largely unaware of.
         • Picard101 7.2.1.1.1

           9 October 2014 at 6:16 pm

           Facts to take away from the news on both channels tonight:

           1: Hone went down in the recount and Kelvin went up
           2: He requested it (no mention of his campaign to fight irregularities)
           3: It cost taxpayers $30’000
           4: The word ‘backfired’ was used
           5: The story got about 20 seconds of airtime on both channels

           You can rant and rave about the MSM conspiracy, and praise Hone for his strategy, such as it is given how well his strategy to align with the Internet party worked out – but judging from tonight’s coverage, this is a dead story already and Hone just looks silly.
           • wekarawshark 7.2.1.1.1.1

             9 October 2014 at 6:23 pm

             Well that’s all very interesting, but it has absolutely nothing to do with anything I have said. I think you are missing the point, and I’m guessing you are ideologically blind to Harawira’s strategy, which might be why you keep insisting on viewing it through what you think he should have done instead of understanding why he did the he did.

             oh, and you failed almost competely to respond to my comment, and instead just rephrased what you said before. Just because you say it twice doesn’t make it more true or more meaningful.
             • Picard101 …

               9 October 2014 at 6:29 pm

               It really matters not one jot why he did it (but for the record I do not believe he is doing this for anything other than sour grapes. Hell he bragged about sucking on the taxpayers teat all last week, not someone with great standards in my opinion).

               What matters is how it will play out. And you can make all the grand claims you like about strategies and what not, but the fact is, this little trist will only serve to undermine him further, ruin what credibility he has, allow Kelvin to fully overshadow him in the north and bring about nothing he is claiming to be fighting for. And come 2017, he will be almost unelectable.
               • wekarawshark …

                 9 October 2014 at 6:41 pm

                 “What matters is how it will play out.”

                 Ok, concern trole, as mentioned already saying something multiple times doesn’t make it more true or meaningful. You obviously dislike the guy so of course you are going to go with the most negative interpretation of events you can come up with.

                 And of course now here we are arguing about Harawira’s personality flaws instead of looking at voter suppression in NZ. Well done mate.
                 • Picard101 …

                   9 October 2014 at 9:13 pm

                   Where is the hard evidence of voter suppression? Hone has made the claim, now he needs to back it up.

                   Lets see the proof. Or is Hone taking lessons from Winston. Making grand claims, then never backing them up.

                   As for the man himself, not fussed on him one way or the other. I like many of his policies around children and poverty, but he sold out to DC for money. So for all his talk, he is just another trougher now.
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:21 pm

                     Dude, the point of the post was to show that Harawira had a different agenda when he asked for a recount (other than increasing his vote). That different agenda was to get some focus on what’s been happening with voting in Te Tai Tokerau. The judge who did the recount has indicated there are some issues but hasn’t made his judgement yet. It’s all in process. How about you come back in a months time and see if there is any evidence?

                     In the meantime there is this, try doing some reading on the topic, you can start here,

                     http://thestandard.org.nz/harawiras-recount-bid-did-not-backfire/#comment-907198

                     We might want to ask why you think Harawira is a liar. Although I’m sick of this conversation now, because it looks like just another Bash Hone attempt and I can’t be bothered.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:30 pm

                     The reason I do not buy into this whole “racist conspiracy” weka is because of Hone himself.

                     He has committed acts of racism in the past, he boasted about not conceding and jetting around to see his mates on the taxpayers back, went on about 100s or 1000s of votes not being allowed (clearly a hint they were for him). He sold out to DC for money. I simply do not find him a honest or moral person anymore. And the only agenda he had IMO was to overturn the vote.

                     And the fact that he has been running around the place screaming racism and presented no proof, only enlarges my mistrust of his word. And the reason you can no longer be bothered is because I have asked for proof and you have none.

                     As I said before, he has some very good policies on poverty and children. Sadly he has thrown all that to the wind in recent weeks and now looks like just another politician trying to hang on to the perks of the office.
                   • Pascals bookie …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:32 pm

                     what did he sell out?

                     name one policy or goal he gave up for money, that’s what ‘selling out’ means doesn’t it? what did kdc get for his money? what did Hone give up or abandon?

                     so now you’ve made the allegation that he sold out, let’s see your hard evidence.
                   • Pascals bookie …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:35 pm

                     and you should stop lying. go and find his farewell to parliament and check all the tributes from various people from across the spectrum to him, and check what he says about feeding the kids.

                     nah, you’re just a bell end mate, you’re not fooling anyone.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:40 pm

                     He joined up with Dotcom for the money, not because of policy, not because of a shared vision of the future. For money. He sold out for cash, as opposed to staying true to his convictions. I truly believe that if he had stayed away from Dotcom he would be an MP right now. Instead he took the cash.

                     Hell, even his position on dope started to soften as the campaign went on. Which was a massive shame. It went from no means no, to well we are still looking at this that and the next thing.

                     Bradford saw him as a sell out for this, a lot of his long time supporters were very upset and angry with him, and on election night his actions cost him his electorate.

                     You may not think this makes him a sell out, but for me, Bradford, the voters of TTT, it does.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:42 pm

                     And I see in typical form, when someone cannot argue the point they go all childish and name call.

                     Oh well.
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:46 pm

                     What racist conspiracy? Now you’re just making shit up and pretending it’s what other people have said.
                   • blue leopard …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:46 pm

                     Picard 101

                     Hone accepting help from Dotcom simply showed he would take any opportunity to get more representation for the people and causes he works hard for. i.e. to me it showed passion that he joined with Dotcom – not compromise or ‘troughing’.

                     I agree with the good points that Wekarawshark has made.

                     Additionally, I think it is important to point out that getting a recount was the best thing to do in order to address concerns being expressed about the accuracy of the count and whether votes had been missed.

                     The results of the recount has paradoxically both allowed more confidence to be felt for that process, because not huge amounts of votes were missed yet because there were some votes missed – which is a pretty serious matter – has also shown that there are some issues that need to be addressed.

                     Democracy needs to be questioned and checked from time to time, to avoid slackness, corruption and/or lackadaisical attitudes from creeping in and to ensure that the all-important sense of trust is retained by the public for the process.

                     Harawira requesting a recount was actually an extremely sound action to pursue for the above reasons.

                     It is a pity that the news missed raising these types of points in their coverage of the matter. TV One obviously felt it was more important to mention the money it took to get the recount, rather than mention the important matters that getting the recount addressed – that of ensuring our electoral processes are sound and can be trusted.

                     Good on Hone for pursuing the matter.
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:48 pm

                     “You may not think this makes him a sell out, but for me, Bradford, the voters of TTT, it does.”

                     Did you know he got more votes this time than in 2011?
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:49 pm

                     I suggest to check what Hone has been saying as well as others on here Weka.

                     Racism rife in this country, corrupt system etc…

                     Oh and I thought you were done. Or did you find some proof of the claims being made to show me? I would be happy to look at if if you have it.
                   • The Real Matthew …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:50 pm

                     “what did he sell out?

                     name one policy or goal he gave up for money, that’s what ‘selling out’ means doesn’t it? what did kdc get for his money? what did Hone give up or abandon?”

                     Drug Reform
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 9:52 pm

                     Blue leopard, it showed a great number of people that Hone was after the cash and was willing to lose someone as loyal as Bradford for it.

                     Sorry, I just do not see it in the same way you do.
                   • blue leopard …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:02 pm

                     @Picard 101

                     What do you think he intended to do with that cash? Buy a new swimming pool or a multi-million dollar mansion?

                     It is very obvious that the cash was accepted in order to have more resources for raising awareness, and thus support, for the causes that he represents.

                     What about the other points I raised?

                     I think it is very important that the recount is not misunderstood because there are some very important principles in a democracy at stake that are missed when the recount is viewed incorrectly.

                     I really do think Hone’s actions are commendable in the pursuit of ensuring that trust is retained in the system, rather than having questions left unanswered.
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:03 pm

                     Māori pointing out racism doesn’t have anything to do with a racist conspiracy. Get a dictionary and look it up.

                     I’ve already answered your question about evidence and you’re ignoring that.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:08 pm

                     Blue, given how he has carried on in the last couple of weeks, I do not believe he got the recount for the reasons he is now stating.

                     The reason being touted for the recount is a good reason to carry out a recount, but I do not believe this was Hone’s reason.

                     As for the cash, yes he got it to bolster his warchest, but where it came from – hell he may as well of had John Key funding him.

                     I do not expect us to agree.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:10 pm

                     Maori pointing out racism.. no hard proof of that at all. And as for what you have presented – yea, opinion of board posters does not equal hard proof.

                     Keep trying Weka.
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:19 pm

                     it was a description of events.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:22 pm

                     A description is not hard proof.
                   • Colonial Rawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:24 pm

                     Picard101 you’re a small minded kind of prick.

                     What I wonder, is why you’re so concerned about former MP Hone Harawira. The guy has lost his seat in a humiliating loss, yet you’re still on his case. What about Hone keeps worrying you mate?
                   • blue leopard …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:25 pm

                     @Picard 101

                     You now appear concerned what his intent was, however earlier in the conversation you stated: “It really matters not one jot why he did it”

                     I suggest you make up your mind.

                     You are probably correct in that we are unlikely to agree, however I think you are being somewhat suckered in by the line that has been fed to the general public and, worse, are propagating it and I think it is important that the facts of the matter gets an airing.

                     As I said, I think wekarawshark has made some extremely pertinent points, and I hope you reread those points and absorb them.

                     Fact of the matter is having a recount clears up questions that have been floating around this election. This is a good result.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:29 pm

                     Goodness more name calling.

                     How is it small minded to hold an opinion that is not the same as yours?

                     And as for why the discussion – this thread is about Hone and his recount and his reason for it. I have just as much right to express my opinion as everyone else. Also, I am not the only person in this thread that has expressed their disbelief of his current reasoning for asking for the recount. I just happen to be the one that the likes of Weka have focused on. So, I answer because I want to. No other reason.

                     You do not have to agree with it, but calling me names like a kid in the playground does nothing for your point of view.
                   • Colonial Rawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:32 pm

                     Picard the Prick with the Pretence of Polite Poltick
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:36 pm

                     Blue – the only questions about the TTT result were from Hone.

                     Perhaps if the Maori Party came out with similar second hand information, we might have to scratch our heads and say, hold on this isn’t right. But not a word from them. Unless the next suggestion is going to be only Mana voters were excluded – which would be interesting to say the least.

                     And as for the whole suckered in by the MSM bit -yeaaa na.

                     And as for Weka’s points, nothing to support them.

                     I suspect the judge will come back with a few minor things to look at, but nothing like what has been suggested. There will be no evidence of widespread exclusion, no evidence of Maori being made to wait while others were served first, etc… But if there is, then I would be happy to say I was wrong. But I doubt very much I ever will have to.
                   • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:39 pm

                     Hey Picard, people are calling you out for what you are and what you fully invite to yourself as well as deserve. It is a wake-up call and you are given opportunities to reflect and re-examine your attitude.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:42 pm

                     Yes, how dare I be polite and refuse to call people names and focus on the topic at hand.

                     Bad, bad me. How evil am I.
                   • blue leopard …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:48 pm

                     @ Picard 101

                     There have been quite a few questions floating around the internet regarding dubious/unfair treatment around voting. As I understand it, it has not simply been ‘coming from Hone’. [I will take a look around for links, haven’t got them right at hand]

                     Although, even if it were solely Hone Harawira speaking up about it, that doesn’t mean it ‘solely comes from Hone’. The man has been an MP and people will approach him and express concerns if untoward things are going on; so it isn’t a simply case of ‘Hone saying something ‘when he raises an issue – he may be speaking for many people.

                     You are repeating exactly the type of ideas that have been rocking around the mainstream news repetitively for years about Hone, so saying ‘yeah nah’ to the view that you have absorbed these ideas is neither here nor there. In fact, it might indicate you have absorbed Tui adverts too. 🙂
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 10:54 pm

                     Blue – all Hone has to do is come out with evidence of it. That’s it. Don’t Winston the situation, just slap that proof down.

                     Blow the whole thing out of the water and get the system fixed. Hell if it is as bad as claimed I would have at a guess there could be grounds for a new election.

                     So, all I ask is for Hone to front up.

                     But I bet the lead story in all the papers and media tomorrow will not be about Hone fronting up. Nor even in a weeks time or a months time.
                   • McFlock …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:03 pm

                     He raised the issue with the relevant authorities.
                     The judge will release his findings in due course.

                     Or do you belive in democratic-reforms-by-media?
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:07 pm

                     And as I have said, I do not believe that the judge will find any evidence of what Hone is claiming.

                     So I guess my next pondering is how will Hone react when the judge does not support him? One of two ways I suspect, but given the rather hostile environment in here towards opposing views I think I will keep those thoughts to myself.
                   • blue leopard …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:07 pm

                     @ Picard 101

                     Here is a link where Harawira is stating the problem prior to the election.

                     https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/25042241/polling-booths-asked-to-treat-maori-voters-with-respect/

                     The article is dated 18 September before the result was announced. He can’t have been making such statements “because he ‘lost’ his electorate” at that point.

                     Clearly he is concerned by the feedback he is hearing and acting on that concern – as any decent member of parliament would.

                     [This is not responding to your latest comment, it was supposed to be attached to the end of my last comment]

                     Edit: Agree with McFlock
                     Not sure what the process is with the recount, but fortunately we are not living in such a banana republic that they haven’t taken his complaint seriously. I presume any ‘evidence’ (whatever that could be?) will be provided in the process.
                   • Colonial Rawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:08 pm

                     Picard’s fascination with an ex-MP…what’s Picard so afraid of? Courageously holding a former Parliamentarian with no power or influence in Wellington like Hone to account – that’s Picard bravery for you.
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:09 pm

                     yeah and he believes that Harawira and everyone else should jump to his demands and timeframes.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:13 pm

                     And his proof of this was……….

                     And given his behaviour over the last 2 weeks, I still do not buy this was his reason for asking for the recount. And again, if this was such a big issue, where was the Maori Party on this? Labour – given their determination to reclaim the Maori seats, the Greens? Surly their Maori voters would be expressing similar concerns to the party they support.

                     I want to see the hard evidence of it. Not second hand comments from an ex MP with questionable motives.
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:16 pm

                     “One of two ways I suspect, but given the rather hostile environment in here towards opposing views I think I will keep those thoughts to myself.”

                     Oh good. That will save us getting out the world’s smallest violin.

                     The reason you are getting abuse is because,

                     1. you started posting your opinions here

                     2. people challenged you on those opinions by raising issues that ran counter to them

                     3. you ignored those issues and just kept saying the same thing in different ways

                     4. people again tried to discuss the issues with you

                     5. you ignored them

                     6. you twisted what other people said

                     7. you expressed opinion as fact

                     8. you tried to make out you’re a victim

                     9. you tried to tell the regulars here how to behave

                     10. you pulled the poor me card

                     did I miss any?
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:20 pm

                     “I want to see the hard evidence of it.”

                     No you don’t, you want something that will affirm your prejudices.

                     You just haven’t realised yet that what you demand is irrelevant to this conversation.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:20 pm

                     Interesting theory.

                     Factually incorrect, but then that is your right.

                     Not sure exactly what I have ignored, etc… but hey feel free to repost anything you like, and I will repeat myself for you.
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:22 pm

                     No weka, I want the evidence. Electoral fraud is a big deal. So, let Hone back up his claims.
                   • blue leopard …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:27 pm

                     @Picard 101

                     And his proof of this was……….

                     Did you read the link I provided? It is clear that he has been approached by many people commenting about the way they have been treated.

                     I think that your implication that he is making stuff up because he lost his seat has been fairly blown out of the water at this point…

                     You can keep expressing ‘your opinion’ yet at least anyone else reading can see that you are not really basing your opinion on any evidence that indicates your opinions are simply lacking foundation. At least people can see that your opinions are just based a ‘hunch’ (aka grudge?), or, as I suggested earlier, the common garden spin you have been fed.

                     I’d watch that susceptibility to spin, if I were you.
                   • McFlock …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:32 pm

                     No weka, I want the evidence. Electoral fraud is a big deal. So, let Hone back up his claims.

                     I think that the problem is that you want you to have the evidence. Now. Forget going through the appropriate process for such issues, forget the fact that the judge is currently considering the issues and will release the decision in due course, you want the evidence in your hands right now.

                     Even though it would have absolutely no effect on the electoral process (and probably your opinion and desire to express that opinion without any evidence) if that actually occurred.
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:33 pm

                     I don’t think 101 is that interested in evidence unless it supports his own views.

                     I read the link though, thanks 🙂
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:33 pm

                     Blue, it is all hearsay.

                     Proof please. Hard, solid proof, electoral commission findings perhaps when Hone raised this concern? Did he make an official complaint? Was there an investigation? If so what were the findings?

                     I think that that sort of thing might have made the news. Yes?

                     So, while you and others may claim that there is more to see, that just does not seem to stack up at this point.
                   • blue leopard …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:42 pm

                     Picard 101,

                     I suggest that you read McFlock’s contributions to this conversation for the answers to some of those questions you posed after he wrote the comment that answers them. [Erhem]

                     I also suggest that some of the answers to your questions are in the link I provided about 1/2 an hour ago @ 11.07pm

                     @weka I’m so glad someone read the link, it would appear pretty clear someone else hasn’t 🙂
                   • wekarawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:44 pm

                     Broken record, won’t listen to anyone else, just keeps saying the same thing over and over again.

                     Still haven’t realised your demands are irrelevant?
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:48 pm

                     Yes Blue, he contacted electoral supervisors, but never laid a complaint with the commission. A situation as serious as electoral fraud and he never laid a complaint. Rather odd really. Poor judgement perhaps?

                     And no, my questions have not been answered with solid proof. Just a lot of second hand information.

                     Sorry, nothing in this thread comes even close to conclusive proof. Guess we just have to now wait and see what the judge says. Somehow I do not think I will be surprised by the findings.

                     [lprent: “..never laid a complaint with the commission..”.

                     The people affected have to lay the complaints. At this point we don’t know how many if any have.

                     Hone’s allegations are directed at the Electoral Commission and their employees.

                     Perhaps you should read the electoral act. A petition may be made before the court, It is effectively a civil case, which means that he has to fund it. Something that an unemployed MP who isn’t a lawyer would not usually do. The only ex-MP I can recall doing these was Peters, who is of course a lawyer.

                     I don’t like the pwned / owned stupidity that you are using demanding a particular result, ignoring others explaining why it is impossible, and then claiming victory.

                     It is a mindless flamewar starter. Read the policy for the next two weeks. Banned. ]
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:52 pm

                     Not irrlevent Weka. Pointless because there is no proof is there.

                     But despite requests that I must keep changing my views on a given topic (on the hour if one poster is catered to) oddly enough I tend to hold fast to my views unless valid evidence that a change is required is presented. An odd quirk for some to accept I know, but there you go. I just have this bad habit of standing by my convictions.
                   • blue leopard …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:52 pm

                     @Picard 101

                     Could have sworn that I read hours ago Weka saying one would have to wait for the outcome, but am not looking around for that comment to link to it. For sure, that is what McFlock was relaying.

                     Glad you have absorbed something.

                     Thank goodness for small mercies.

                     There has been evidence provided that Hone was airing concerns prior to the election. This indicates that your view that Hone was making the complaint due to his loss is quite incorrect. You appear to still be holding such beliefs , despite the fact that it has been shown he was voicing concerns prior to the loss, and therefore you have proven that you do not shift your views in the face of valid evidence.

                     [Weka, very prophetic]
                   • McFlock …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:52 pm

                     Guess we just have to now wait and see what the judge says.

                     Finally he gets the point.
                   • Colonial Rawshark …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:52 pm

                     Some fucker Picard is looking for “conclusive proof” on the interwebs and declaring it a win if it doesn’t materialise. LOL
                   • Picard101 …

                     9 October 2014 at 11:58 pm

                     Yes “WE” will have t wait for what the judge says.

                     I, on the other hand, don’t. I already have a very strong suspicion of the outcome. And it will not be to your liking.

                     Oh and as for Weka’s comment, the fact that no complaint was made to the commision over this, despite his concerns, just makes his chest thumping now look 2 faced. And again, I say I do not believe he asked for the recount for purely altruistic reasons. If anything his actions before the election (or inaction) strengthens this view.
                   • McFlock …

                     10 October 2014 at 12:05 am

                     lol

                     So when picard says “we”, they means “you”.
                     The other option is that a brief moment of clarity has now been scabbed over by picard’s belief in their ability to gain knowledge based on absolutely no evidence. Because “they” (meaning “picard”) don’t need to wait for the judge’s decision, apparently.
                   • blue leopard …

                     10 October 2014 at 12:10 am

                     @ McFlock & CV

                     chortle 😆
8. Ad 8

   9 October 2014 at 4:26 pm

   Harawera is a Faust who sold his soul to the Devil and paid for it.
   • wekarawshark 8.1

     9 October 2014 at 4:33 pm

     Not everyone lives in a world of Christian sin and punishment.
     • greywarshark 8.1.1

       10 October 2014 at 11:47 am

       I loved the bit about the world’s small est violin to accompany the wails of the bewildered and misunderstood.

       And a quote that says it all from the mouth above.
       9 October 2014 at 11:58 pm
       Yes “WE” will have t wait for what the judge says.
       I, on the other hand, don’t. I already have a very strong suspicion of the outcome.
   • Chooky 8.2

     9 October 2014 at 4:35 pm

     ?….explain yourself
   • adam 8.3

     9 October 2014 at 4:39 pm

     I really hate the shallow theology of some, the gospels are a message of hope – not an excuse for you to be a vile hateful little soul. May I recommend Ad, you go back and read the New Testament again – it shows from your comment you have not, or you have been listening to preachers who have not. As you missed the essential messages of goodwill to all and loving one another.
     • Ad 8.3.1

       9 October 2014 at 5:34 pm

       Stop your pleading and go back and read Goethe.
       Harawera knows it. Bradford knew it and decided the sale of political principle wasn’t worth it.
       Even that idiot on Thedailyblog knows it.
       They sold themselves out, and traded down.
       • adam 8.3.1.1

         9 October 2014 at 7:22 pm

         This is a different issue – but stick with your vitriol – it looks so good on you.
       • Murray Rawshark 8.3.1.2

         10 October 2014 at 5:16 am

         He didn’t sell his soul. If there was any sin, he was perhaps a little opportunistic. He, and others, were offered an opportunity that could have gained more representation and a bit more of a voice for the dispossessed of our country. It didn’t work, but Mana will keep going. They are much more than an electoral party, and will learn from this.
   • greywarshark 8.4

     9 October 2014 at 8:49 pm

     By now anyone who’s anyone knows the name is spelt Harawira.
9. Tiger Mountain 9

   9 October 2014 at 4:54 pm

   This is a good time to shine light on the disproportionate amount of disallowed ‘specials’ in Māori electorates. The rules are there to be used so good on Hone and Mana Movement for taking the opportunity.

   My partner served at two polling booths in the Far North in recent elections. On one occasion the chief clerk did not even unpack the Māori roll by opening time. Several Māori seat voters were confused–the name of “their” candidate was not on the papers–general seat–given to them. The clerk reluctantly did her duty on prompting and gave my partner the evils all day. The trend around Doubtless Bay was booths staffed by farmers wives and retired torys some seeming to have no time for the existence of Te Tai Tokerau.

   The reaction from the usual suspects to the Mana challenge highlight again the racist remnants that continue to haunt this country.
   • Jenk 9.1

     9 October 2014 at 6:02 pm

     Yes – I’ve heard similar stories, Tiger Mountain. Racism is well and truly embedded in this country and it comes out like these instances you mention at election time.
     That’s why Hone put forward the request for a recount – to try and highlight these instances where it happens, and to try and ensure it doesn’t happen again.
   • wekarawshark 9.2

     9 October 2014 at 6:18 pm

     hope you don’t mind TM, but I quoted your comment at Pundit,

     http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/hones-last-stand#comment-39782
     • Tiger Mountain 9.2.1

       9 October 2014 at 6:25 pm

       No worries, I can back up what I claim if needs be, it seems that Mana got some declarations off people prior to the recount and review.
   • Pawsharkial 9.3

     9 October 2014 at 6:24 pm

     I seem to recall that the disallowed specials rate in the 2013 Ikaroa-Rāwhiti by-election was an astonishing 52%. It’s not the easiest data to locate on the EC site, so let’s go with the 2011 election results (party votes):

     http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2011/e9/html/e9_part10_1.html

     In General seats, the rate of disallowed specials was an average of 7.3%, in Māori seats this soared to 17.1%. In specific electorates, the disparity was even more salient; Dunedin North had 3%, Ikaroa-Rāwhiti 22.3%; Epsom 4.5%, Waiariki 20.7%. Also, the average rate of informal specials was disproportionately greater in Māori electorates at 2.1% versus 0.7% in General electorates. Then of course there’s the turnout rate difference between General and Māori electorates

     The thing that really surprised me about this recount was that it was only for the Te Tai Tokerau candidate vote. It’s not like the the IMPs have anything to lose at this point, why didn’t they go full-on and demand a party vote recount, plus candidate in all Māori electorates?
   • Murray Rawshark 9.4

     10 October 2014 at 5:18 am

     +1 TM
     I think we’ve seen one of those racist remnants posting at great length above.
10. Andrew Welsh 10

    9 October 2014 at 6:15 pm

    Hang on, in the post you used the words “mistreated” and Hone was reported to have used the words “racism”. It’s difficult to believe that the recount was nothing other than “sour grapes”, even though by law he was entitled to a recount (backed up by his refusal to front up following the election)
    • wekarawshark 10.1

      9 October 2014 at 6:19 pm

      I don’t find it difficult to believe. Why do you?
11. Rodel 11

    9 October 2014 at 6:34 pm

    Hone should now join the Labour party and stand as a list candidate. After all they have similar objectives and the people of Te Tai Tokerau want Labour representation.
    Dunno about his mum though… Oh why not? We need a bit of fire.
12. In Vino 12

    9 October 2014 at 8:18 pm

    “None so blind as those who will not see.”

    ‘Will’ in this case meaning ‘want to’, and ‘those’ being the right-wingers who are determined to cry sour grapes.

    Despite Hone’s lapses into foul language, etc., I respect him as having ideals and a bigger vision than the ‘Self Self Self’ ideology of right-wingers. He was NOT trying to win the seat with the recount. (I am repeating what you have already been told.)

    To use a biblical expression, critics of Hone need to think about the plank in their own eye.

    A very thick plank.

    And I am Pakeha, even if the term may have been derived from ‘Bugger you’.
13. Ray 13

    9 October 2014 at 8:32 pm

    Well I have a lot of time for Hone, I can almost forgive him for his WMF comment and he represents a genuine underclass. Interesting his vote went up compared with 2011
    The look on his face as the results came in told you all you needed to know at his sorrow and loss of mana
    He will come back
    Stand tall
14. The Lone Haranguer 14

    9 October 2014 at 8:33 pm

    Well Im still disappointed that Hone didnt get back to Parliament.

    Sure I was disappointed that he sold out to the German (my opinion only) but still reckon we need him saying the stuff he was saying. He will have to do that from outside Parliament now.

    Its now up to the rest of the Left to ether support his “Feed the poor” deal or if thats off the table, then one of the opposition parties needs to draft a duplicate of it and call it their own with some help from Hone. 🙂

    And then you parties of the Left can practise working together for the next three years and at the 2017 polls, people will understand that you are collegial and not competitors, and that you want the best for everyone.

    I might be a bit to the right for some of you, but that doesnt mean that I cant support what Hone was doing.
    • GregJ 14.1

      10 October 2014 at 5:46 am

      Out of interest why do you refer to (I assume) Kim Dotcom as “the German” rather than by his legal name (or even his birth name Kim Schmitz)? There are 12,945 New Zelanders born in Germany according to the last census and over 200 000 New Zealanders who can claim German ancestry. Do you refer to them as “The German” when you talk about them? And one in four people living in New Zealand was born outside the country – do you make a habit of referring to them by the country they were born in as well?

      Is there some significance of his German nationality I’m unaware of? And why does that take precedence over his Finnish nationality?

      As a New Zealander who has German ancestry on both sides (albeit a few generations back) I’m curious as to why this is somehow relevant? Is there something wrong with being German that I don’t know about?
15. Dont worry. Be happy 15

    9 October 2014 at 9:13 pm

    So why is it exactly that polling place staff can enroll people right up to election day but come the day itself, they pull a swifty i.e. when the person comes intending to vote, which is their right in a democracy, the staff hand them a special vote, if their name does not appear on the roll…the voter duly votes, perhaps feeling a little “special” but the vote will be disallowed.

    That is a dirty trick. And it works against the poor who move around from pillar to post.

    If there were more than 29,000 disallowed votes in TTT, one electorate…most of them disallowed due to not being enrolled…how many in the whole country? 100,000? 200,000? Forget abiut the missing million voters for a minute and think about the bamboozled hundreds of thousands!

    This is dodgy as….and has been for many elections. It must be changed. People are being tricked. If voters continue to be fobbed off with “special vote ballot papers” then the only conclusions that can be drawn are that elections in NZ are rigged and those who should damn well kick up a fuss….the media, lawyers, academics, judges…havent so far….So who benefits?
    • Picard101 15.1

      9 October 2014 at 9:22 pm

      If their name is not on the roll on election day, they cannot vote as I understand it.

      And frankly, too bad. If they cannot be bothered to get things sorted before election day, given the massive effort that is put in to get people to enroll, then those people should miss out on voting. Rights come with responsibilities. It is each voters responsibility to ensure they are enrolled so they can exercise their right to vote.

      If anything all this highlights the need for civics to be taught in schools. Educate people on how the electoral system works, their rights, their responsibilities, because I strongly suspect that if we were to dig into this as deeply as we should, we would find most of these disallowed votes are because of voter error. Not some sort of racist conspiracy theory to keep Hone out of office.
      • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 15.1.1

        9 October 2014 at 10:44 pm

        some sort of racist conspiracy theory

        You have the cheek to carry on with “racist conspiracy” by kicking that off at 6:16pm, here at 9:22pm, and then banging on at it again at 9:30pm!
        • Picard101 15.1.1.1

          9 October 2014 at 10:50 pm

          My goodness how evil of me again.

          I will remember in future to change my opinion on a subject every hour on the hour. Must not be consistent, must flip flop. Got it.

          Does that meet with your approval? Or are there other pointless made up rules you need to impart to me?
          • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 15.1.1.1.1

            9 October 2014 at 11:00 pm

            Listen to yourself. See the words that you use, the words that you yourself bring up. Look at the thoughts and accusations that you project and provoke.
            • Picard101 15.1.1.1.1.1

              9 October 2014 at 11:04 pm

              People do not always take opposing views well. Not my problem if many of them cannot react like adults as opposed to kids in the playground calling others names.
              • McFlock …

                9 October 2014 at 11:25 pm

                Thanks for the maturity advice, Jean-luc.
                • Picard101 …

                  9 October 2014 at 11:28 pm

                  Anytime Wesley.
                  • McFlock …

                    9 October 2014 at 11:34 pm

                    Kirk would have kicked your arse.
                    • Picard101 …

                      9 October 2014 at 11:39 pm

                      No chance.
                • wekarawshark …

                  9 October 2014 at 11:28 pm

                  To be fair though, this is the first time that there’s been an opposing view on the standard, so we obviously don’t know how to deal with it properly.
                  • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark …

                    9 October 2014 at 11:30 pm

                    L O L !
      • ropata mako shark 15.1.2

        9 October 2014 at 11:43 pm

        Picard has decided to eliminate people who are slack with mail, and haven’t passed their civics class in school. Who else do you wanna exclude?

        people without land ?
        peepul what dont read good ?
        people without a penis ?
        • Picard101 15.1.2.1

          9 October 2014 at 11:54 pm

          There is being slack and then there is being lazy. I make no apology. If you cannot be bothered to accept the responsibility, then don’t cry about not being able to exercise the right.
          • McFlock 15.1.2.1.1

            9 October 2014 at 11:59 pm

            “Rights” aren’t negotiable or contingent upon meeting some bureaucratic hurdle. Otherwise they’d be “privileges”.

            Why don’t we design the system around the people, rather than arbitrarily requiring people to conform to the system?
            • Picard101 15.1.2.1.1.1

              10 October 2014 at 12:08 am

              People were given a huge amount of time to get themselves on the roll. There was a massive drive by the commission, and political parties across a wide range of mediums to get people signed up and out to vote. How much more time do you want to give them to get off their backsides and post a letter, or use the net to register? Do we need to send people door to door and have someone collect the letter and post it for them?

              It is a person’s responsibility to make sure they are enrolled to vote. And it is not a hurdle, it is not a massive undertaking. It is a very very simple thing to do.

              It is pure laziness if you are not on the roll, or by design – I know a few who are not on the roll for one reason or another by choice.

              I do not understand why people pander to those who are too lazy to undertake such a simple act.
              • McFlock …

                10 October 2014 at 12:18 am

                Let me put it this way:

                If a business said that customers could only by a product if they filled in a form and registered for the company transaction card, and they couldn’t get one at the time of purchase, then that’s the business’ choice. But if the business then found they were losing customers that way, the business would demand a better system.

                Anyone can buy anything with legal tender, but businesses have eftpos for those customers who don’t want to use cash.

                Now, some small business owners might say that customers who want one or the other are morons, and don’t deserve to shop at that store. But they’d be the idiots, because their objective is to maximise the number of customers.

                Our objective is to maximise the number of voters, no? So shouldn’t the system be tailored to the citizens, not the other way around?
                • Picard101 …

                  10 October 2014 at 12:26 am

                  And in what way is the current system not?

                  There has to be a check on who has voted to avoid fraud. So, you have to have a roll.

                  You have to give people time to get on the roll, and plenty of opportunities/methods to do so. Which there is.

                  Those who cannot vote on the day, must be given a chance to have their vote count, and there is a system in place to ensure this.

                  There has to be a multitude of places to cast your vote on election day to ensure maximum opportunity to access a polling station – which is what happens now. To the point of political parties sending out vans to collect voters and take them to a polling booth.

                  So, in what way are people not able to get onto the roll and in what way are they being prevented from voting? (And no, Hone’s claims do not count as he himself could not muster the desire to lay an official complaint over them before he lost his seat).
                  • McFlock …

                    10 October 2014 at 1:12 pm

                    And in what way is the current system not?

                    Because apparently some people wished to vote on the day, and could not.

                    It’s a fairly self-explanatory problem.
              • ropata mako shark …

                10 October 2014 at 12:21 am

                Some people’s lives are dysfunctional and chaotic. They often can’t physically get to a polling booth, hence offers of transport in areas like Mangere.

                Clearly these are undesirable people and their democratic rights should be ignored, right Picard?
                • Picard101 …

                  10 October 2014 at 12:30 am

                  Those who cannot physically get to a polling station can cast special votes before hand on a day when they have help to get there. Or as you point out, get picked up on the day and transported to a poll booth. They are in no way prevented from voting.

                  And a chaotic household is no excuse given the length of time one can register and vote over. As for dysfunctional – unless you mean drugs, booze or abuse, still no excuse.
                  • ropata mako shark …

                    10 October 2014 at 12:47 am

                    What is inexcusable is the fact that the right to vote is withheld from a vast swathe of the (Māori) population.
                    • Picard101 …

                      10 October 2014 at 12:49 am

                      Of which there is no proof this has happened.
                    • ropata mako shark …

                      10 October 2014 at 12:58 am

                      yeah, nah bro
                    • Picard101 …

                      10 October 2014 at 12:59 am

                      Lol, you go on believing in fairy tales then.
                    • ropata mako shark …

                      10 October 2014 at 1:26 am

                      A fairy tale contains a lot more moral truth than your vacuous pontificating.
                    • Picard101 …

                      10 October 2014 at 1:42 am

                      Well given how Hone was gloating about screwing over the tax payers, I’d be careful to whom you ascribe good morals too.
                    • ropata mako shark …

                      10 October 2014 at 1:50 am

                      And Hone was trying to feed poor kids! What a bastard.
                    • Picard101 …

                      10 October 2014 at 2:33 am

                      Yes, such a shame he was led astray by greed.
                    • ropata mako shark …

                      10 October 2014 at 4:03 am

                      Because the government are such unquestionable paragons of pecuniary parsimony, the MSM has to focus on the spending of one ex-MP who actually stands up for the poor.
      • trendy lefty 15.1.3

        9 October 2014 at 11:48 pm

        Do you live in the north? I have (white, farming, tory) family up there and believe me, I find it quite believable that tory types working in polling booths would do everything they could to get Maori votes disallowed. You can keep your wee head buried in the sand and pretend that there is not any systemic racism in New Zealand, but, how would you know? Have you ever suffered the effects of racism? Maori have and do, Hone Harawira knows it and it is his mission to do something about it.

        Mr Harawira isn’t prosecuting a criminal, so he doesn’t need “hard evidence”, he was acting as a still-encumbent MP in a Maori electorate listening to the concerns of his constituents and taking a sensible step to to address those concerns – as he clearly stated. If you have any interest in how a recount is a good way to investigate those issues, have a look online for the judgement issued after the recount in Waitakere in 2011. It is probably the best, cheapest and most thorough avenue available to investigate whether disallowed votes were disallowed properly or improperly.

        You can blather on about teaching civics all you like, but for a lot of people, school and politics have no meaning because they are aprt of a system stacked against them from the start. You can deny it all you like if it makes you feel more comfortable, but, really, who gives a fuck what you think?

        You know you are reading a loser when they start whining “I have the right to voice my opinion”. Sure, you do, but your opinion is dumb.
      • Murray Rawshark 15.1.4

        10 October 2014 at 5:25 am

        You’ve learned all the RWNJ memes pretty well. You have constructed quite a view straw men here and shown an incredible inability to comprehend anything. Are you either (1) a National MP, or (2) a chook with it’s head cut off?

        Shit, could also be (3) both.
        You come across as a nasty racist prick, Prickard101. And bloody boring as well.
16. ropata mako shark 16

    9 October 2014 at 11:33 pm

    Parliament has lost a lot of mana with the departure of Hone Harawira; the only politician who spoke purely for the underclass in Aotearoa New Zealand. My (pakeha) relatives living up North have warmed up to him as a man of integrity.

    Politics is the art of compromise, and Hone attempted to further the cause of his beloved Te Tai Tokerau by leveraging the wealth and publicity of DotCom.

    A few wavering (probably Auckland-based) voters had a natural aversion to the Bond-villainesque KDC, and we had the grotesque display of National politicians endorsing Kelvin Davis. What a farce. Hone will return, he is revered in places like Kaikohe which have missed out on Key’s “brighter future”.
    • wekarawshark 16.1

      9 October 2014 at 11:36 pm

      “Parliament has lost a lot of mana with the departure of Hone Harawira”

      +1.

      It’s sad that so many people are afraid of him.
      • ropata mako shark 16.1.1

        10 October 2014 at 12:40 am

        This is why I think Hone is a good fulla.. http://www.openbible.info/topics/poor_people

        Matthew 6:24 ESV
        “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

        Matthew 5:3
        “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

        Proverbs 29:7
        A righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.

        Luke 6:20-21
        And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied. “Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.

        Matthew 25:35-40
        For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
        […]
        ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

        Psalm 140:12
        I know that the Lord will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and will execute justice for the needy.

        James 5:1-6
        Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

        Micah 6:8
        He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

        Isaiah 58:6-12
        “Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh? Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily; your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard. Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; you shall cry, and he will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you take away the yoke from your midst, the pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness, if you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday.
        • adam 16.1.1.1

          11 October 2014 at 5:02 pm

          Hug
17. North 17

    9 October 2014 at 11:39 pm

    Oh Picard……..all is not lost. You do at least have two things left – your tut tut tutting about diction and your pomposity.
    • Picard101 17.1

      9 October 2014 at 11:56 pm

      That and my annoying habit of standing by what I say. I know how frustrating it is for some on here that I refuse to flip flop without actual evidence of the claims being made.

      How naughty of me.
      • ropata mako shark 17.1.1

        10 October 2014 at 12:24 am

        Not naughty, just a bit ignorant. Could be dangerous if you hang around here too long, you might actually learn stuff.
        • Picard101 17.1.1.1

          10 October 2014 at 12:32 am

          How is it ignorant to refuse to accept the view of the loudest voices on here based on nothing but the wind?
          • wekarawshark 17.1.1.1.1

            10 October 2014 at 12:39 am

            says the commenter whose just overloaded the thread with demands for the past half day 🙄
            • Picard101 17.1.1.1.1.1

              10 October 2014 at 12:44 am

              Oh, I am sorry. I had no idea there was a limit on how many replies to posts one was allowed. Another one of my bad habits. Answering when spoken to.

              So sorry not to have ignored you after your second or third post. Although that said, it seems you share this habit.
              • ropata mako shark …

                10 October 2014 at 12:55 am

                There is a limit to how much pedantry the mods will tolerate, but you’ll have to try a lot harder to reach the level of pomposity achieved by Pete George. Keep going!
                • Murray Rawshark …

                  10 October 2014 at 5:30 am

                  He’ll make it. He’s the little prickard that could.
                  • ropata mako shark …

                    10 October 2014 at 1:02 pm

                    Yep, he made it! Well done that man (?).
18. Dont worry. Be happy 18

    10 October 2014 at 8:01 am

    I am not making my point clearly enough. Sorry. Try again…..

    I have worked in polling places many times. I know how lacking in confidence some people are….for those who can read easily, who are used to dealing with forms and “officials”….no problem. For the others, the opposite….it is an ordeal. You want to know why people dont vote? Many fear looking foolish. Something that has happened many times in their lives in similar contexts. Like all human beings they shy away from events with predicatably negative connotations. And you do not need me to tell you which class has lower levels of reading skills and lower levels of confidence when faced with officialdom.

    When they summon up the courage to go to vote (this is no exaggeration remember, courage) and they dont appear on the roll of the electorate they think they live in, they should be enrolled on the spot in that electorate and the vote they then cast should be counted.

    Instead they are given a “special” vote…and their vote is later disallowed…thousands of them.

    Call that ballot paper what it is when it is given to that voter….a Claytons vote, the one you get when youre not getting a vote. At least then people would not be under the false impression that they have voted. I dare you!

    Or put the extra people in polling places on election day and keep enrolling people so that their votes are counted and their voices are heard.

    So what if it costs more money to keep enrolling throughout the election process?

    So what if we have to wait longer for the election results?

    Because the present situation…. if it is not rascism it looks a lot like it.
    • GregJ 18.1

      10 October 2014 at 8:50 am

      Thanks for this.

      It is very easy to underestimate the institutional barriers (let alone casual and institutional racism) that make what should be a very basic and ostensibly simple act of exercising a democratic right something that for some is a painful and often frightening experience.

      And then multiply that again when it is something more complex when dealing with governmental institutions.
    • ropata mako shark 18.2

      10 October 2014 at 1:06 pm

      +1 insightful
19. Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 19

    10 October 2014 at 12:07 pm

    This morning’s update

    A good statement from Hone:
    http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/positive-result-recount-harawira/5/204418

    Note:
    “On another note … there are still a number of issues affecting Maori voting which still need to be addressed, including polling booths without Maori roll voting papers; Maori people being turned away because their name wasn’t on the roll; Maori people being turned away because they didn’t have their ‘easy vote’ card; Maori people being told they can’t cast a special vote; Maori people being told they can’t vote at certain polling booths; Maori people being told to wait while Pakeha voters were served first; Maori people being told they have to travel more than 40kms to vote; Maori people not being offered assistance to vote; and Maori people having their identity questioned because of their many names. I hope to follow these issues up through other avenues in the weeks ahead.”
20. RRM 20

    10 October 2014 at 1:27 pm

    Of course it didn’t “backfire”… he got another couple of weeks’ salary and free airfares all over the country to visit the whanau, he said so himself on air. You’re welcome Hone.
    • blue leopard 20.1

      10 October 2014 at 3:55 pm

      So you are not concerned at all over the issues Hone raised on behalf of the people who expressed concerns over disturbing treatment at the polling stations to him?
21. RRM 21

    10 October 2014 at 6:42 pm

    Blue leopard – not at all concerned.

    The allegations of someone who talks about “white motherfuckers” are not worth reading.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1

      10 October 2014 at 6:54 pm

      Anyone who’s been elected to Parliament has a voice much louder and more credible than yours.

      Sincerely, choke on it,.
    • blue leopard 21.2

      10 October 2014 at 10:42 pm

      @RRM

      So basically, you don’t know what the serious issues are that Hone raised, and have dismissed him prior to posting – so you simply came onto the thread to spew venom.

      If you didn’t like Mr Harawira sounding off, why do you do the same?

      Mr Harawira had good reasoning and intent behind what he said.

      Where is yours?
    • wekarawshark 21.3

      10 October 2014 at 10:50 pm

      RRM, are you the RRM from Kiwiblog?
    • greywarshark 21.4

      11 October 2014 at 12:35 pm

      RRM
      I don’t like the words you refer to which I know that Hone said. However they have actually been in films on tv and have got into the language of some people, and can slip out even when a person has decided not to use them. Hone apologised for that use which was, I understand in an email to a co-worker when he was expressing his feelings in private or so he thought.

      Now the sort of poisonous thoughts that you come out with are also inclined to be absorbed into the mind and lodge there. You should relearn your approach to other people in society and stop denigrating people who are working to improve and have a better society.

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