Hide on Nats’ woes

45 comments on “Hide on Nats’ woes ”

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1. infused 1

   6 August 2008 at 4:28 pm

   I see the Standard was just named in the house.
2. r0b 2

   6 August 2008 at 4:35 pm

   I see the Standard was just named in the house.

   First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin!
3. infused 3

   6 August 2008 at 4:41 pm

   Was pretty negative to be honest, but nothing that hasn’t been said before.
4. Dan 4

   6 August 2008 at 4:45 pm

   I agree SP. And the Standard deserves a mention in the House. Of course the blog is left leaning, but that is what it proclaims. It is not the Fairfax dominated print media with its monumental undeclared agendas suppporting the blue party with its obvious undeclared agendas.
   A number of commentators have called the taping of politicians’ party ramblings a low threshold but I would disagree completely. Private conversations that clearly show public pronouncements to be a lie (or at best smoke and mirrors) deserve very public airing. Surely it is a positive that politicians are held accountable for their intentions. English can be condemned by his boss for being honest; Lockwood is being told off for being honest to his party members. Mike Williams was told off for being open. Let us have more tapes to get rid of the double-speak.
   The problem for the Nats is their hidden policies. Labour are up front and cannot be caught out in the same way. If the Nats actually told us what their policies were, there would be no issue. But as long as the right are totally preoccupied with gaining power by subterfuge and hope to put in place their nonsense ideology that has been discredited world-wide, then they will continue to be caught out.
   Remember the electricity reforms; remember bulk-funding; remember Ruth Richardson; and ask why the only sensible moderate in the Nats, Katherine Rich has left. Self inflicted Nats!! Your two-faced smugness has caught you out!
5. r0b 5

   6 August 2008 at 4:47 pm

   Of course it was negative. They are spinning out of control and lashing out wildly. Not a pretty sight.

   Plus, the material covered here at The Standard must be really getting to them. (I’m reminded of an old saying, to the effect that sunlight is the best disinfectant).
6. Steve Pierson 6

   6 August 2008 at 4:48 pm

   infused. The Nats have been telling journos how I applied to the conference as media and they rejected me cause I’m with The Standard. As I said in another thread about Key’s mention of ‘Young Labour’ being “evicted” from the conference-

   “Key is referring to me and some others (which included some Young Labour people) holding a protest outside the conference on the Sunday. On the Sunday, a Young Nat recognised me as The Standard guy and took me briefly into the foyer of the Town Hall where I spoke to some old Nat for a couple of minutes – essentially:

   ‘you’re secret Labour stooges aren’t you?’
   ‘no, we’re just a bunch of people from the leftwing, I don’t even vote Labour’,
   ‘but Whaleoil proved you’re Labour’,
   ‘Whaleoil is a technically illiterate pornographer, I wouldn’t rely on his ‘proof’
   ‘so, you’re going to be heckling during the speech?’
   ‘No, I wouldn’t do that, besides, I have something else on’

   Then I got a phone call to say the others had arrived for the protest and I left the building. There was no ‘eviction’. Actually, they had seemed quite happy to have me there, even watch the speech, but I was otherwise engaged with the protest.

   No-one else from that group entered the Town Hall, apart from one guy who went to grab the journos to watch our skit. And this was all on the Sunday morning anyway. Key knows that, he knows the public doesn’t, so he’s trying to confuse matters.”

   I’ve been getting phone calls and emails from journos all day about it but there’s nothing to tell, just National grasping at straws.
7. Scribe 7

   6 August 2008 at 4:55 pm

   The Nats have been telling journos how I applied to the conference as media and they rejected me cause I’m with The Standard.

   Are they telling the truth? Did you apply to cover the conference as media? Are you media?

   [lprent: I think he is media. Certainly writes enough posts around here – according to the backend, 380 of them.]
8. Rex Widerstrom 8

   6 August 2008 at 4:59 pm

   Meanwhile, back on topic: Rodney is completely right. That is one reason I still retain confidence in Act, the Greens and the Maori Party… they (so far, at least) say what they mean and mean what they say.

   Sadly neither of the “major” parties can lay claim to the same, and are reduced to an argument that amounts to “we’re not quite the big fat liars that they are”.

   It’s a pity these shabby, dilapidated facades of what were once great parties won’t be dismantled by this election, leaving the way clear for smaller parties of principle to engage in an honest battle for hearts and minds. The “broad church” party doesn’t belong in a proportional representation environment. It has to perform ridiculous contortions to remain in power, and eventually those contortions morph into deception.

   If we had a “real” MMP Parliament, with a plethora of philosophies and interests represented by several parties (or better yet, 120 independents) people would be astounded at the improvement in behaviour and quality of policy.
9. Chuck 9

   6 August 2008 at 5:01 pm

   surely it’s the other way ’round.

   That’s one solution, but the best solution would be to say in public what you say in private.

   Going from being evasive in public and frank in private, to being evasive in both public and private might be a good idea from a spin perspective, but surely we’d prefer that a party went from evasive in public and frank in private, to frank in both?

   captcha: 1917 again – I guess the Worker’s Party is going to win this election!
10. Daveski 10

    6 August 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Funny, I made a similar comment earlier acknowledging that HC has said the same re living in a goldfish bowl.

    There is a certain irony and I’d be interested in SP’s view.

    Not tugging any chains but we have debated for some time the fact that the pre-campaign period wasn’t about policy.

    The problem for the Nats is that they now have to convince that public that there isn’t a hint of a hint of a policy to do the things implied.

    In other words, we’re not actually debating policy and the policy specifically states that the dire things won’t happen.

    I realise that the comeback is “they can’t be trusted” but that falls into the similar hole of not debating policy.

    Actually, I agree with Rex’s comments re the smaller parties particularly the Maori party. They have impressed me with the way they have developed their positions and reacted to issues – so much better than the Nats
11. Ben R 11

    6 August 2008 at 5:18 pm

    “If we had a “real’ MMP Parliament, with a plethora of philosophies and interests represented by several parties (or better yet, 120 independents) people would be astounded at the improvement in behaviour and quality of policy.”

    George Washington warned about the risks of political parties in his farewell speech. Hard to imagine life without them though.

    http://www.forbes.com/business/global/2006/0508/014.html
12. Rob 12

    6 August 2008 at 5:22 pm

    Isn’t it funny that there aren’t any Secret tapes of Labour Party members private conversations.

    Perhaps there is only one party that lacks the class and will stoop so low because they are behind in the polls. That would do this a new low in NZ Politics but who is surprised after Professor Bill Hodge said on One ZB
    That the legacy of this Labour Government will be that it will go down as one of the most corrupt Governments New Zealand has ever seen

    [lprent: Tape of Mike Williams at the NZLP congress in closed session earlier this year.

    Rob – I’m starting to get seriously irritated with your persistent level of inaccuracy. It is starting to look to me as being deliberate rather than simple stupidity. I’m getting tired of listening to people bitching about it. It has stopped being amusing or comical. Consider yourself to be warned – list lift your comment level or leave. ]
13. the sprout 13

    6 August 2008 at 5:39 pm

    Hide has learnt the importance of fully internalizing his lies.
    Reminds me of the saying “it’s one thing to hide the truth, and another thing altogether to forget where you put it”.
14. forgetaboutthelastone 14

    6 August 2008 at 5:54 pm

    “Isn’t it funny that there aren’t any Secret tapes of Labour Party members private conversations.”

    Please refer to the secretly taped conversations of Mike Williams.
15. Rob 15

    6 August 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Helen

    Said she has some BIG IDEAS FOR NEW ZEALAND does anyone know where they are. Or was the taping saga one of them everyone has a different perspective of big I guess
16. travellerev 16

    6 August 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Way to go Standardistas !!! Out with the truth and yes, if Newspapers and mainstream media don’t do their job: Finding out what we the people need to know so we can make an educated choice than others must step in. Blogs are the main source of real information around the world and that makes us citizen journalists. It is the duty of every citizen to partake in a democracy and to make sure that politicians are afraid of us. Not because we are violent but we won’t take shit lying down. You lie to us, we dump you and that’s how it should be. This is our country not theirs and they are there to serve us not the other way around.
17. forgetaboutthelastone 17

    6 August 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Oh what a tangled web we weave,
    When first we practice to deceive!
18. Draco TB 18

    6 August 2008 at 6:37 pm

    George Washington warned about the risks of political parties in his farewell speech. Hard to imagine life without them though.

    So did Thomas Jefferson – the man who started todays US Democratic party. He also said (paraphrased) that we couldn’t legislate against them as it would be a gross violation of free association and liberty. We have them, we’re always going to have them and so the best thing we can do is make sure that we have legislation that works with them.

    I to would like to see more of the 20 registered parties in parliament which is another reason to support state funding of parties.
19. Anita 19

    6 August 2008 at 6:39 pm

    Shouldn’t it be

    “the best solution is to say in public what you say in private”?

    Hide’s comment could be read to say that you should tell your public lies to your friends and family. Shouldn’t we be asking politicians to tell us the same truth they tell people they’re close to?
20. Stephen 20

    6 August 2008 at 6:41 pm

    “list your comment level or leave”

    Lift?

    [lprent: typo – lift damnit]
21. Julie 21

    6 August 2008 at 7:01 pm

    Thanks for telling your side of what happened at the conference Steve, I was wondering after the media coverage, having been at a few party conferences in my time and thinking that Key’s explanation sounded rather illogical.

    I guess that’s the one thing you can say for Hide, at least the guy’s honest. You know what you are voting for with Act. Which is why they are under 5% I guess

    Anyone from National keen to withdraw and apologise for all their claims that they had no secret agenda? With the refusal to release papers backgrounding their policies, comments by senior MPs that conflict with public statements by the leadership, spokespeople who seem to be privy to a different policy from what has been released, it’s all starting to look like National is not a Government in Waiting. Imagine what the Cabinet meetings would be like?!
22. travellerev 22

    6 August 2008 at 7:10 pm

    forgetaboutthelastone

    Indeed. Been reading my blog lately? LOL.
    Must have given you some food for thought and more to come.
23. the sprout 23

    6 August 2008 at 7:12 pm

    “what the Cabinet meetings would be like?!”

    John: Right then, today we’re going to talk about what not to say

    Bill: Are you sure we should be talking about that John?

    John: Are you questioning my grasp of the facts Bill?

    Bill: Sorry John, I chose my words poorly

    John: Yeah well don’t do it again you crater-faced prick-pauper

    Lockie: Does that mean we shouldn’t talk about the secret agenda either boss?

    Bill: Shut up Lockie, stick to your studs

    Lockie: I resent that insinuation Bill. John, Bill is being nasty

    Brian: Is there something we should know about?

    John: There is nothing you should know about

    etc, etc
24. travellerev 24

    6 August 2008 at 7:21 pm

    Nice one sprout. LOL.
25. Steve Pierson 25

    6 August 2008 at 7:34 pm

    Scribe. Thought I had replied to your question but it’s not here:

    I did apply to attend the conference as media – just as Farrar and I attended the Budget as media and Farrar attended the Nat conference as media. My application was denied on the grounds that The Standard is not friendly to National.

    I think any fair analysis would say that Kiwiblog and The Standard are media outlets and it was as a media rep for The Standard that I applied.
26. forgetaboutthelastone 26

    6 August 2008 at 7:44 pm

    travellerev – marvellous work you do on your blog there. just waiting for another quote i can steal.
27. mike 27

    6 August 2008 at 7:51 pm

    “My application was denied on the grounds that The Standard is not friendly to National.”

    But being a sad wee young labour stooge you went along anyway.
    Great to see all this is starting to paint labour as dirty players. Did you smile for the cameras Clinton?
28. dk 28

    6 August 2008 at 8:10 pm

    Public? Private? Ethics? Dirty tricks? Who commissioned and paid the private investigators that collected all the dirt on Winston?
29. RedLogix 29

    6 August 2008 at 8:32 pm

    Oh what a tangled web we weave,
    When first we practice to deceive!

    But when we have the art perfected,

    It’s time to go and get elected!!

    (Dennis Glover actually…)
30. Scribe 30

    6 August 2008 at 8:38 pm

    My application was denied on the grounds that The Standard is not friendly to National.

    Is that what you were told, Steve, or is that your opinion of why you were not given media accreditation?
31. outofbed 31

    6 August 2008 at 8:51 pm

    I loved Nicky Hager on TV3 saying “it wasn’t one of my guys” classic
32. dad4justice 32

    6 August 2008 at 9:17 pm

    Anybody that admires a turd master like the Hager wimp needs a lobotomy asap. Is the timid geek hailed as the standard liar?The freak is the epitome of the new age androgynous man ? This country is plummeting in a sewage pond!!
33. dad4justice 33

    6 August 2008 at 9:19 pm

    “I loved Nicky Hager”

    Go back to bed and clean up your chunder!
34. dad4justice 34

    6 August 2008 at 9:23 pm

    Anybody that loves Hager needs a lobotomy. Is he the made in NZ wimp hailed as the epitome of the new hollowhead androgynous freak?
    Go back to bed nutbar.
35. Ari 35

    6 August 2008 at 9:23 pm

    Julie- I thought the same thing about how he worded that comment. Apparently Hide has some experience in keeping secrets- maybe National should listen to its potential coalition partners more carefully next time Meanwhile us greenies will continue to say in private exactly what we say in public.

    OoB- heh.

    edit: Wow, D4J continues to be inciteful
36. dad4justice 36

    6 August 2008 at 9:35 pm

    “D4J continues to be inciteful”

    Oh shut up you wimpster, everybody knows I am a spiteful prick you sad arse fairy.Must go the warden needs his computer.
37. Quoth the Raven 37

    6 August 2008 at 9:38 pm

    D4J – This from someone who takes Ian Moon Landing was Faked Wishart seriously.
38. dad4justice 38

    6 August 2008 at 9:42 pm

    Have they found where the Hager alien was hatched on planet Mars yet?

    Sorry must go lockdown is well overdue. Cell 666.
39. Lew 39

    6 August 2008 at 9:48 pm

    D4J: Performance art.

    L
40. Steve Withers 40

    6 August 2008 at 11:48 pm

    Hide has it right. Saying the same in private as in publis IS the answer. Obvious to everyone except the clever-clever types who disrespect the voting public by misleading them.

    If they told the truth, they would lose votes. They know it….so are “forced” to cheat.

    With ethics like that, they shouldn’t hold public office. I’ve been saying that about the worst Nats since 1983….and about Richard Prebble since he signed up to ‘the public must be lied to for their own good’ brigade.
41. relic 41

    7 August 2008 at 8:18 am

    The odious Mark Ellis had a wee rant on his sports show last night about -a desperate Labour Govt. using entrapment- mirroring the Key diversion line of earlier in the day. How do this motley television crew (Breakfast, Gone Fishing even, with its fawning recent recommendation of Key) repeatedly get away with this stuff?

    It sure seems to be working with a certain type of kiwi bloke.Go the Standard! lets deny these willfully uninformed oafs their electoral prize.
42. Bill 42

    7 August 2008 at 9:33 am

    I’ve had it with all this crap from the mainstream and others about who was behind the taping of Nat MPs.

    Two points.

    1. A wee while age I suggested in a comment that someone should bail up to one of these guys with a tape recorder and pin them on a few issues. Now, if I can think it’s a good idea so can countless other individuals. So well done that man for having the wherewithal to follow through on his idea.

    2. JK appears to have transferred the nastier aspects of individual corporate success strategies to our electoral process. While it might be okay for individuals to employ subterfuge for their personal gain within a party, is it okay for an entire party to practice it within the context of an election bid? Of course it is (sadly), but not if you are caught out.

    So excuse me as I dream a while on the long odds of the two shibboleths of NZ politics burying each other in enough slung mud to hand us a “Green November”. Yeah, yeah, it’s a very long shot, but we deserve to be completely rid of neo-liberal economic policies and parties. (Labour with their occasional lifebelt tossed over to prevent a few drownings and Nat with their ‘no lifebelts’ policy).

    Back to the point. ‘The punters’ applaud you, whoever you are.
43. PhilBest 43

    7 August 2008 at 10:20 am

    Hey, be careful what you wish for, guys. If what Rodney Hide said was the main thing that mattered, he’d be PM and ACT would be the government…….
44. Lew 44

    7 August 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Incidentally, if anyone has a clip of that Gone Fishin’ episode `A Day on the Water With John Key’, I’d love to see it. Aired Saturday July 12 at 1730 on TV3.

    L
45. Stephen 45

    7 August 2008 at 3:34 pm

    good luck! ha

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