“It’s not okay” today either

Written By: - Date published: 11:45 pm, July 10th, 2008 - 37 comments
Categories: maori party, Social issues, uncategorized - Tags:

The other day Dancer made some good points about the campaign “It’s Not Okay” and the role that organisations like the Families Commission play, as we strive for a caring and compassionate society. And Russell Brown who participated in the ads shared his view through the comments, that it had “helped focus minds” and dedicated his blog to it today.

So the Maori Party now finds itself in a tricky predicament, following Truth’s front page revelations today about Derek Fox having “a well-known history of violence towards women”. For the Maori Party, Fox is a good candidate, with appeal stretching further than the Ikaroa-Rawhiti electorate seat he wants to contest against Maori Affairs Minister Parekura Horomia. Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples, himself by no means sparkling clean on this front, was said to have known about the rumours. To be honest it wasn’t that hard, on both counts they were pretty established rumours in some Maori circles.

The predicament for the Maori Party though having been strong on the anti-violence message is when and how will they remove Fox as candidate. Tariana Turia is on record as having said “violence is unacceptable in any form”. Hone Harawira has similarly claimed that “[b]ashing the missus and the kids is a serious problem all over the country, and every step we take to reduce the devastating effects of that violence has to be commended”. These kinds of statements make it difficult to see how they can both keep Fox as a candidate and maintain Party unity while also upholding the principles that they purport to follow.

For the Maori Party this week comes on the back of previous revelations back in May that a former 2005 Maori Party candidate was arrested, accused of grooming young teenage girls on the internet and meeting them for sex. In the past Tariana Turia has issued her own challenge – “The challenge for this Government now is to extend its gaze to every institution and to ensure that we say ‘no’ to violence at all levels.” It’s a challenge that she, and the Maori Party she created, must now answer. So, does the Maori Party agree “It’s not OK”?

So far their attempt to quash the story hasn’t worked. It’s no secret that the Maori Party are looking to work with the Nats – maybe John Key would be willing to lend them Crosby Textor for a bit…

37 comments on ““It’s not okay” today either”

  1. tarquin 1

    Lets see what comes out on this eh, before we judge the mote in thy brothers eye.

  2. Where historical offenses are concerned, I’d say there should be an element of forgiveness amid the baying for blood.

    Destroying the careers of people who have long ago stopped “bashing the missus” (if they ever did – what a lovely, powerful smear if you can pull it off) doesn’t make any sense. Certainly, no one in their right mind would own up to it after the fact, given the consequences.

    From a “harm reduction” point of view, It seems to me restorative justice would be a better approach than the usual (often counter-productive) hang’em high stance Kiwis take toward crime generally.

  3. Steve – agreed.

  4. “It’s no secret that the Maori Party are looking to work with the Nats”

    So is this why “The Standard” is putting the boot in ? I’m sure that if the Maori Party was cosing up to Labour you would be very quiet on the issue.

    I see the name of the poster is suitably “politically correct”.

  5. Stephen 5

    Lol, the name of the poster could be ‘whenua’, Bryan..?

  6. Tane 6

    Bryan, some Maori people have Maori names. Get over it.

    Anyway, as far as I see it I don’t think there’s much to be gained bagging the Maori Party on domestic violence. Nothing I’ve seen so far suggests they are soft on it, and I don’t share the view that someone who has done wrong should be shunned forever – the idea of redemption is core to left-wing principles.

  7. higherstandard 7

    While not excusing the behaviour of Tony Veitch or Derek Fox I would like to note the following.

    Both undertook voluntary anger counselling, admitted they were in the wrong and appear to be reformed and contributing to society.

    That there appears to be a feeding frenzy in the media regarding these two yet still no-one has been brought to account in relation to the murder of the Kahui twins is somewhat concerning.

  8. sally 8

    Both undertook voluntary anger counselling, admitted they were in the wrong and appear to be reformed and contributing to society.

    Tony Veitch tried to buy his victom off, HS. Hardly admitting he was wrong…

  9. T-rex 9

    That’s an interesting point actually HS.

    We start campaigns like “it’s not ok” to encourage people to come out and admit an issue exists… but when they do, we crucify them.

    Makes you think. I was pretty pissed at Veitch, but now I’m starting to question myself.

    I’m not sure anyones interests will be served by hanging him out to dry, and I’m not sure he deserves it.

    Ha! Captcha: ‘Award Democratic’

  10. mike 10

    Will the MP extend their softening view of historical events to the Treaty as well?

  11. T-rex 11

    Sally-

    He underwent councelling for a year. That’s exactly what he should have been doing in the circumstances. This does NOT forgive his actions, but can you blame him for wanting to keep the allegations secret?

    My question is: Will what we’re doing here help or hinder progress towards the goal?

  12. Tane: “I don’t think there’s much to be gained bagging the Maori Party on domestic violence.”

    If you are trying to help Parekura Horomia hang onto his very vulnerable seat there probably is.

    Labour should never have shafted Maori property rights with the Seabed & Foreshore Act. Wouldn’t it have just been easier to give Maori their democratic right to legal process ? Instead Labour pissed off a very politically savvy group of voters.

  13. Phil 13

    “the idea of redemption is core to left-wing principles”

    It’s core to most people – left, right, centre…

  14. T-rex 14

    Agreed Phil,

    It’s just quite inconsistent with right wing economic policy. Redemption requires opportunity, and the ‘poverty trap’ effect is a very real denial of that opportunity.

    I certainly don’t think those on the right are heartless, I just don’t think they realise some of the ways in which people can be shut out. I’ll rant in more detail on that when I reply on the housing post though…

  15. Tane 15

    Labour should never have shafted Maori property rights with the Seabed & Foreshore Act. Wouldn’t it have just been easier to give Maori their democratic right to legal process ?

    I tend to agree, but I guess that’s where political pragmatism comes in. You have to remember this is around the time National had billboards up bleating on about “our beaches” that the Maoris were trying to take away so they could ban white people from them.

    In my opinion Labour had to make a choice – try protect Maori rights and see their electoral chances go down the gurgler and with them the very rights Maori were trying to protect, or make a compromise that impinged on Maori rights but kept Labour in the game politically. They obviously chose the latter.

    I don’t think it was a nice choice, or even necessarilty the right one. I’m not even sure my analysis is correct. I’m just saying politics is a dirty business, and things aren’t always as easy or clear-cut as they might seem.

    The rise of the Maori Party gives me hope our political system can move beyond that kind of racism and wedge politics.

  16. Tane 16

    It’s core to most people – left, right, centre

    Phil, yes, it’s just you often don’t see it in right-wing politics.

  17. T-rex 17

    “The rise of the Maori Party gives me hope our political system can move beyond that kind of racism and wedge politics.”

    Uhh…. right.

    The rise of a party predicated on race gives you hope our political system can move beyond racism and wedge politics? That’s one optimistic outlook right there…

  18. Tane 18

    T-Rex. I agree ethnic parties aren’t ideal and give rise to all manner of contradictions, but in an environment where the two main political parties gang up on a minority, the minority in question often has little choice but to seek political power in their own right.

    The results of the Maori Party’s formation also seem to back up my thoughts – do you think National would try another Orewa speech or Iwi/Kiwi campaign if they had to rely on Maori Party support to form a government?

  19. T-rex 19

    Agree with your above, but sadly I think that’s a sign that racism remains alive and well in our political system. Suppression is different to evolution.

  20. higherstandard 20

    Tane

    The only parties that didn’t play political games with the Foreshore and Seabed Act were ACT and the Greens who both took, from my perspective, a pretty principled position.

    ‘ACT opposed it on the grounds of the legislation being retrospective, that it was a denial of property rights (in this case Maori property rights), and that it was an unwarranted incursion by the Crown into areas that were specifically Tikanga Maori. The Greens also voted against the bill, saying that it overrode Māori rights and offered no guarantee that the land would not later be sold.’

  21. Tane 21

    HS, agreed. I guess my point is minor parties can afford to take principled positions. When you have to convince 40+ percent to vote for you then that isn’t always an option.

    It’s the exact same reason why National can’t reveal its true policy objectives, which are far closer to ACT than their current positioning would have you believe.

  22. higherstandard 22

    Tane

    Indeed I’ve made the same point myself many times, which is why I take anything from National and Labour with a grain of salt.

  23. Ari 23

    If Derek has made amends, genuinely accepts responsibility for what he’s done, and publicly apologises, I don’t see a reason for dropping him. Veitch didn’t manage the second criteria, and whether he managed the first or not is very much debatable.

  24. Lew 24

    T-rex: “The rise of a party predicated on race gives you hope our political system can move beyond racism and wedge politics? That’s one optimistic outlook right there ”

    This is a common reactionary misconception about the maori party, and one you seem to have swallowed wholesale.

    The maori party isn’t predicated on race, it’s predicated on several tenets of Maori philosophy. The word `maori’ has a lowercase m in the party’s name and logo because it means `normal’ or `ordinary’. Their purpose is n’t to separate Maori from non-Maori; it’s to normalise Maori and their worldview into the NZ mainstream. They’re quite explicit in saying that anyone who agrees with and wants to live by this philosophy, regardless of race or anything else, is welcome to join and participate.

    L

  25. T-rex 25

    Great!

    I stand corrected.

  26. Lew 26

    T-rex: I wrote a research paper on this, disambiguating their kaupapa. Email lewis#feayn;org if you’d like to read it.

    L

  27. Ben R 27

    “The maori party isn’t predicated on race, it’s predicated on several tenets of Maori philosophy.”

    That is great in theory, but why was Tariana Turia complaining about white immigrants last year then? I note she stated she wasn’t being racist because she wasn’t complaining about Asian immigrants. I thought that revealed a certain bias based on skin colour rather than philosophy?

    I agree that their purpose is “to normalise Maori and their worldview into the NZ mainstream”, but think it’s naive to think you can just separate race out of the equation. It feeds peoples tendency to create in-group/out group distinctions based on race. Similarly if you had a ‘Chinese Party’, or ‘European Party’.

  28. I’m afraid the attempts on this blog to try and kiss and make up are all a wee bit too late.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/multimedia/tv/national/10361.html

    Still, Heather Simpson has stated a certain staffer in Shane Jones office has been ‘disciplined’ for certain activities. Will a body be found floating in Wellington harbor or is someone wiping a wet bus ticket off their wrist? 😉

    As for race based party’s- well if someone wants to form one and another person wants to vote for one then that’s fine, that’s democracy but it will be limiting the amount of votes it will ever get to those of its ‘race’ and ignoring the reality of a multi-ethnic society which is why all political party’s try and get candidates from as many different ethic backgrounds as they possibly can in order to expand the vote base. Unfortunately there are zero Asian, Pakeha etc faces in the Maori party line up.

    [Tane: What attempts are these Richard? I am confused. Personally I think it was stupid behaviour either way – if it’s a lone staffer then they should have known better than to act alone like that. If it’s directed from higher up then the Labour Party is even stupider than I thought.]

  29. Lew 29

    Ben R: “it’s naive to think you can just separate race out of the equation. It feeds peoples tendency to create in-group/out group distinctions based on race.”

    I think you’re absolutely right. I certainly don’t argue there’s no ethnic aspect to the maori party’s politics, I’m simply arguing the party isn’t predicated upon race or ethnicity – it’s predicated on philosophy.

    If you argue that the fact that it’s a Maori philosophical basis means they’re an ethnic or racial party, then for consistency’s sake you need to accept that the National and Labour parties’ foundations in European enlightenment philosophy mean they are also ethnic or racial parties – and to an extent this is so, because all parties are ethnocentric inasmuch as their philosophical bases are ethnocentric. The maori party isn’t unique in this regard – only in that it is the only philosophically Maori party.

    L

  30. Ari 30

    It feeds peoples tendency to create in-group/out group distinctions based on race. Similarly if you had a ‘Chinese Party’, or ‘European Party’.

    We do have a “European Party”, it just calls itself the “National Party”, and it is by far the biggest source of exclusionary, one-size-fits-all-white-straight-men politics.

  31. Oh god Ari – don’t get them started. They’ll be talking about the oppression and racism they are exposed to for being rich white men…

    Honestly, whoever let these pricks get away with adopting the rhetoric of victim hood while victimising everyone else should be shot.

  32. Lyn 32

    Ari – you took the thought right out of my brain.

  33. mike 33

    Looking at the lists the Nats look to be one of the more multicultural Parties.

  34. Lew 34

    mike: Right, because you can tell what ethnicity people are by their names.

    Like Winston Peters, right?

    And Clem Simich?

    Ron Mark?

    Shane Jones?

    Charles Chauvel?

    Yeah, all good multicultural names, those.

    L

  35. higherstandard 35

    Lew

    Apparently that is one of the criteria along with whatever formulae Ari is using , one of which appears to be that if you are a member or supporter of the National party you are a heterosexual white man.

  36. Ben R 36

    “We do have a “European Party’, it just calls itself the “National Party’, and it is by far the biggest source of exclusionary, one-size-fits-all-white-straight-men politics.”

    Ari, Karl Marx was a straight white Male from Europe. The trade union movement originated from white males in Europe.

    I think that other factors are more significant in deciding whether to support National (or Labour) than whether you’re European or male.

  37. QoT 37

    The only time people should be “crucified” for “coming forward” is when they qualify their statements with “I’m not making excuses for my awful actions except that I was stressed and tired and cranky and she nagged me and I “lashed out” etc etc”.

    If Fox (assuming truth to rumour), or Veitch, or anyone for that matter, were to come forward and say “Yes, I committed assault, and it was wrong and unjustified and will never happen again”, more power to them. Just no more “I’m sorry I got caught”, please?

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    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    7 days ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    7 days ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    1 week ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    1 week ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Hard News: Time for a New Deal: 25 years on
    In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Not impressed
    KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Solar beats coal
    As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Step Too Far.
    A Crown Asset? For reasons relating to its own political convenience, the Crown pretends to believe that “No one owns the water.” To say otherwise would re-vivify the promises contained in the Treaty of Waitangi – most particularly those pertaining to the power of the chiefs and their proprietary rights ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Where Money Comes From
    Most people would say, no doubt, that they have a pretty good idea of what money is. They live with the reality of money every day. It is what is needed to buy the necessities of life and to maintain a decent standard of living. You get money, they would ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Banned by the Green Party leadership: Jill Abigail on women’s rights and trans rights
    The article below was an opinion piece that appeared in the Spring 2019 issue of Te Awa (the NZ Green Party’s newsletter) and on the Greens website.  In keeping with their policy of hostility to women defending women’s right to female-only spaces, Green bureaucrats have since removed the opinion piece.  ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The fallacy of the proximity argument.
    Longer term readers may remember my complaining that, as a political scientist, it is burdensome to have non-political scientists wanting to engage me about politics. No layperson would think to approach an astrophysicist and lecture him/her on the finer details of quarks and black holes, but everybody with an opinion ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Where We Stood: Chris Trotter Replies To Stevan Eldred-Grigg.
    Joining The Fight: Stevan Eldred-Grigg's argument for New Zealand staying out of the Second World War fails not only on the hard-headed grounds of preserving the country’s strategic and economic interests; and not just on the soft-hearted grounds of duty and loyalty to the nation that had given New Zealand ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Universities back the climate strike
    On September 27, School Strike 4 Climate will be striking for a future to pressure the government for meaningful climate action. This time, they've asked adults to join them. And now, Lincoln University and Victoria University of Wellington have signed on:Victoria University of Wellington has joined Lincoln University in endorsing ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Another constitutional outrage
    Another day, another constitutional outrage in the UK. This time, the government is saying that if parliament passes a law to stop Brexit before being prorogued, they may just ignore it:A senior cabinet minister has suggested Boris Johnson could defy legislation to prevent a no-deal Brexit if it is forced ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ending dairy in Canterbury
    Environment Canterbury has finally proposed nitrogen limits to stop dairy farmers from poisoning Christchurch's water supply. And naturally, farmers are whining about it:A proposed move by Environment Canterbury (ECan) to protect Christchurch's drinking water by setting tough – some would say, draconian – nitrate reductions in the decades ahead and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Is National the party of climate arson?
    The Zero Carbon Bill is currently before select committee. While its targets are weak, its a generally sensible bill that promises to establish a long-term framework to guide emissions reductions. But National hasn't made up its mind on whether it will support it - and according to Andrea Vance in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Experts warn Harold the Giraffe “well past” typical giraffe life expectancy, may not have long
    Dum-de-doo. Children across New Zealand have known him for generations as the lovable giraffe who tells them to exercise, hydrate and not to shove lit cigarettes up their nostrils. But a world renowned giraffe expert says we shouldn’t be getting attached to Life Education’s Harold the Giraffe, as he is ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • August ’19 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: 22 BLOGGERS WITH ADVICE FOR RESEARCHERS AND EVALUATORS, ILLUSTRATED I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Bye, bye to the collusion lie
    Sums it up, really. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Opinion: Treat your car by buying extra petrol to snack on while you aren’t driving
    By Mike Hosking. Yesterday morning, I waltzed into work, and as I walked past the drones aggressively typing out news on the computers I’ve repeatedly asked to be moved further away from, I caught a glimpse of the words “climate change”, and noticed that suspiciously they weren’t in condescending quotation ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago

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