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JT, eh?

Written By: - Date published: 5:05 pm, December 2nd, 2012 - 78 comments
Categories: labour - Tags:

I see John Tamihere’s been let back into the party. On one hand it’s just a party membership and Labour’s a broad church. On the other hand he’s professed a desire to stand for Labour in Waitakeri, has made a big show and dance about his attempts to join, and was (still is?) a man who regularly had a wine in Ponsonby with the party leader. Given the evidence on the other hand I think it’s fair to discuss the possibility of Tamihere being brought back into caucus.

First of all let’s dispense with the f*cking ridiculous notion that Tamihere speaks to the working class. Remember this is an aging, privileged man with a chip on his shoulder. When he was young he could get away with his bigoted claptrap because of his “boyish charm”. Now he’s just another has-been bore who believed his own publicity, didn’t live up to his potential, and blames it on teh gayz and the unions.

I think the real issue the “JT” scenario throws up is the fact there’s a group in Labour that think that provincial and/or working class are synonyms for “bigot”. I can tell you from long experience that’s not the case. Getting Tamihere on board is like getting Goff talking about Maori privilege or Shearer trying some bene-bashing – all it will do is piss off the liberals in the party and make working class and provincial people feel even more patronised. It’d also confirm their suspicion that Labour doesn’t even know who they or how to connect with them.

That said, Tamihere’s only just a member and Labour is a broad church. Hell, it now accommodates me and him.

78 comments on “JT, eh? ”

  1. Skinny 1

    Agreed!

    It’s been a while since I attended a LEC meeting so will be going to the next one. Last thing we need is JT championing his own cause during election year & turning voters off in droves. His carry on  supporting Gibson & co at POAL sums him up. Bloggers on here referring to him as an attack dog, as if he is a heavy hitter have to be kidding. I’d rather have his side kick  Willie Jackson at least he fights from a true left corner. 

    Bit of a cross post but saves on typing.

    • karol 1.1

      He has recently made some quite derogatory comments about the LP.  How can they even consider picking him as a candidate?

  2. Aotearoean 2

    I trust the leadership are strong enough to tell him that he should not stand for Waitakere. Carmel Sepuloni did a great job last election with the support of a very dedicated LEC and I know that many of them would walk if Tamihere was the candidate.

    And yeah he brings something to the party but this should not mean that his return to Parliament should be fast forwarded or even pre determined. Let him earn the privilege of being a Labour candidate through work for the party.

    • BillODrees 2.1

      Dear Aotearoan,
      Phil Twyford deliberately supported John Tamihere for that reason: to shaft Carmel and to piss off the Liberals.

      Phil is a bit sore that Carmel was selected over him to replace Lynn Pillay when she retired. Phil was bumped in Auckland Central and Mt Albert before the Waitakere vacancy.  He finally got Te Atatu when Carter threw a paddy over Goff’s loosing ways. 
      Phil was understandable frustrated that it took so long to get a seat: he had done solid ground work. Perhaps the experience has left some scars. He needs to build a bridge and get over it. Unfortunately I suspect he does not have that trait in his make-up: a fatal flaw in a politician. 
      It is a pity that Phil is now alienating all the other West Auckland members.  He is betting heavily that attaching himself to Shearer/Robertson will pay a better dividend than attaching himself to the values and  wishes of the members.  
      Phil is very exposed. Very exposed. 
       

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

        He is betting heavily that attaching himself to Shearer/Robertson will pay a better dividend than attaching himself to the values and wishes of the members.

        And he’s not the other one in caucus. As you suggest, not the wisest move.

      • karol 2.1.2

        And Phil is currently my MP.  Word of warning, Phil – right now I am thinking to vote Green (or maybe Mana) for both the electorate and party vote. 

        I will not vote for a candidate that supports a bigot.  And I think Labour needS Sepuloni in Waitakere and the House. 

        • Jim Nald - Once Was National 2.1.2.1

          Hi karol
          Just wondering, and please excuse the lack of knowledge or memory on my part about your background info. Perhaps you need to be a party member and at the Waitakere LEC/branch meetings etc to ensure the correct thing is done for Labour in that electorate.

          • karol 2.1.2.1.1

            Thanks, Jim.  I’m not a Labour Party member.  Never joined a party before.  But I’m giving serious thought to joining the Greens to help with their campaign.  Labour has got to do more to actually look like a left wing party for me to ever consider joining – or party voting for them again.

  3. karol 3

    and was (still is?) a man who regularly had a wine in Ponsonby with the party leader. 

    He was seen yesterday in Henderson doing his come-back interview and photo op for the sun herald, at a (largely pakeha), and probably mostly middle-class eatery in a colonial heritage building.   A place where I suspect most of the customers don’t have much patience with his bigotry.

    • quartz 3.1

      Typical. He’s always been more “flashy Auckland bastard” than “voice of the working man”.

  4. Tanz 4

    He’s very cool, glad he’s rejoined.

    • Tracey 4.1

      If you think that a man who has no respect for women (other than as mothers and wives), is homophobic and considers he is more intelligent and his opinions are more worthy than those of others is “cool”, then I feel for you and your loved ones.

      Before ANYONE suggests y comment is race-based I feel exactly the same way about Damien O’Connor, amongst others.

      No party is perfect and no one person can reflect everyone (although BM constantly tries to here) but he seems to think that being gentlemanly is a swear word because it means you respect the contributions of others. He seems to have made it very clear that he isn’t going into parliament to represent anyone but himself. I recall a similar opinion offered by our PM when he said I came in as John Key, that’s who I am gonna be.” At least with Tamihere we have some fore-knowledge of what being JT means, we didn’t about Key…

  5. lurgee 5

    “First of all let’s dispense with the f*cking ridiculous notion that Tamihere speaks to the working class. Remember this is an aging, privileged man with a chip on his shoulder. When he was young he could get away with his bigoted claptrap because of his “boyish charm”. Now he’s just another has-been bore who believed his own publicity, didn’t live up to his potential, and blames it on teh gayz and the unions.”

    Don’t hold back, tell us how you really feel.

    One News poll putting Labour up to 35% and Greens on 17%. Suddenly the Red-Green alliance looks a lot more feasible.

    • IrishBill 5.1

      Tamihere had it all put on for him, he cocked it up, and rather than accept it he bleats on like it’s everyone else’s fault. I’ve no time for that kind of self-pitying vanity.

      As for the colmar? I’m sure Met and JT will have a great time co-ministering Social Development. 

      • Akldnut 5.1.1

        He has cocked it up with his outrageous comments and innuendo.
        I and many others will definitely leave the Waitakere LEC and Labour party if he’s selected instead of Carmel.

    • Skinny 5.2

      He will struggle in gaining the electorate candidacy of Waitakere. The chickens will come home to roost for JT, as most LEC’s have a workers, women’s & rainbow branches, ‘no votes there.’ Add the elected Executives votes & it simply won’t happen. I know the Labour Council will not support a high enough list ranking. Shearer & his crew will chicken out when push comes to shove from the grunt workers in the Party. Besides he has a battle getting Nash back in if he holds in Feb.

       JT is playing games as his real desire is to Lead his natural ilk the Maori Party. 

      • Benghazi 5.2.1

        Shearer and Robertson are strongly behind this Tamihere bid for Waitakere. The Labour Council couldn’t face them down in Tamihere’s application yesterday. Why would you think they would ‘chicken out’?

        The only way to fight fire is with fire. Sepuloni is now on the defence and this means she needs to get out there and enrol her own new members now.

        Incidentally does anyone know whether such new members would get a vote in February if the trigger is pulled? Does anyone know the answer to that question? Is membership from February 2012 required to vote in February 2013? Or does joining now count?

        • Skinny 5.2.1.1

          Stare him down? Why would they he is only signing up as a member. Later on it’s a sign of purging the Party of crap comeback wannabe MP’s, liken him to Banks when the time is right, which will further garnish support. Let him full his boots trying in that electorate. Easy enough dropping in an affiliate rep into that LEC for voting power & floor numbers, I am sure others can too if directed from there GS.

          No real power for him in Feb unless he turns the LEC upside down which is highly unlikely.

        • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.2

          Incidentally does anyone know whether such new members would get a vote in February if the trigger is pulled? Does anyone know the answer to that question? Is membership from February 2012 required to vote in February 2013? Or does joining now count?

          Joining right now counts for Feb.

          In a few days however it flips over to the 2013 calendar year for memberships, and joining then will NOT count for any post February members vote.

          • deuto 5.2.1.2.1

            Thanks for that as a reminder. Joined online which was quick and easy – but does not guarantee my vote in the actual general election especially if the new membership participation rights are ignored by the parliamentary wing.

            • Tracey 5.2.1.2.1.1

              I bet Matthew Hooten and some of his mates joined too so they can vote for Shearer… Pseudonyms perhaps?

            • lprent 5.2.1.2.1.2

              The nice thing about it is that even if the caucus sew up the Feb election, then it is pretty cheap to stay in Labour and simply wait for a vote to head to the party. Besides it usually isn’t that hard to get to LEC’s, regional conferences, and even conference as a voting delegate. Mostly saying that you’re interested at a branch meeting is enough to get elected 🙂

        • Stephen 5.2.1.3

          Really? That’s a bold claim. How do you know that? Who are you?

          • Akldnut 5.2.1.3.1

            There is another way to bolster members and votes for when the time comes and that is for Centenary club members to have family memberships, where all members of their are registered as voting members at a very reduced cost.

  6. QoT 6

    On one hand it’s just a party membership and Labour’s a broad church.

    On the other, like fuck a self-centred wanker like him would make this much of a fuss about getting his membership back if he wasn’t after a seat.

    • IrishBill 6.1

      Yep. I figure that, come selection time, the LEC vote coupled with the affiliates taking the floor vote should see him off.

  7. Colonial Viper 7

    Too many “fragile” people in Labour, Tamihere promises to give them a “rev-up”

    http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/john-tamihere-give-labour-party-rev-up-5253430

    • Saarbo 7.1

      ok, if he is not going to make any changes to his wanky behaviour then he should have NO chance of ever becoming a Labour candidate. We have Hipkins, Mallard…we dont have enough room for another fu$% wit in the party. 

      • Jim Nald - Once Was National 7.1.1

        Such behaviour he has shown actually seems to demonstrate his own fragility that crumbled years ago which he has not seemed to have got over. If anything, he would be better off taking his own medicine, rev up himself and move off.

  8. arants 8

    Another conspiracy? No. A foolish and unprincipled (pragmatic?) decision, probably driven by the fear of trying to apply consistency in dealing with the myriad of other cases involving those who bring the Party into disrepute, even at Caucus level? Yes.

    Nonetheless, complacency about the chances of keeping Tamihere out of Waitakere seems foolish. He has significant numbers, resources & patronage to dispense in Waitakere, while claims about the strength and effectiveness of the ‘incumbent candidate’ and Waitakere LEC are overblown – they would have cruised in in 2011 if they’re that good. If they have the numbers they say they have, they’ll keep him out, but they shouldn’t underestimate him. It will be a good opportunity for the West to front up in terms of its organisational capability.

    I doubt whether Twyford has anything to fear in terms of his selection, seat or left credentials. He has built a growing and effective organisation out of the ruins left by Carter, actually gets things done, and has a coherent left ethos and analysis, which is more than can be said for most of his colleagues on either side of the recent leadership tif.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      Why was Twyford vocal in his support for Tamihere’s re-admittance to the Labour Party?

  9. BM 9

    Shearer brought back JT to help clear out the gay and liberal power blocks and return labour back towards it’s more traditional roots.

  10. peterlepaysan 10

    Well put, IRISHBILL. Concise and witty

  11. millsy 11

    Gays, women and unionists are to JT what the Jews and gypsies were to Hitler.

    Yes, the guy is a brown Hitler who uses the evil gays as scapegoats for the nation’s problems.

    He may not be able to recriminialise homosexuality, but we will see a purge of gays from the teaching profession and the public service like we have never seen before if he gets into power. It will be a new pogrom.

    JT must be stopped AT ALL COSTS.

    Get out and protest. Picket his studio, blacklist the bastard. He must be destroyed.

    • Arkonaut 11.1

      Do people like you actually really exist in the Labour Party, or are you a right-wing troll trying to start a flame war?

      [lprent: Read the about, and don’t make assumptions. You can use the search to look at previous comment history. Use @author millsy. Trolls tend to lead short lives here. Read the policy. But moderators will make those decisions, not you. ]

      • Arkonaut 11.1.1

        Hello lynne I was replying to millsy not the standard authors. Comparing JT to Hitler is as disgusting a comparison as it gets. The guy is just a joke.

        [lprent: Moderators mostly read the comments completely out of context. We’re reading them backwards in the order or arrival. This allows us to do things like looking at astroturfing and other troll like behaviours. As a side benefit we look at what people actually write rather than what they think is visible from context. This allows us to give ‘useful’ feedback…

        Often in fast flowing debate your comment may be well down in the responses and no-one else has any frigging idea about what you are responding about either. So if you don’t want moderators on your arse (and other commentators taking it out of context as well), then provide a point to your abuse/attack in the comment.

        Calling someone a troll and not providing a reason for that is usually a precursor to a very dumb style of flamewar. You’ll find that we intervene early.

        BTW: if the godwin factor gets too extreme then I just start adding words like Hitler, Stalin, etc into auto-moderation until people stop using them unless they really mean it. You’ll find that most commentators say one of these godwin style phrases here then they usually do mean it. I looked over millsy’s comment and he did in fact use it in context. You might disagree, so argue on that basis rather than trying to do our job. ]

  12. And Tamihere has just ruled out standing as a candidate in 2014 …

    • BillODrees 12.1

      And he spoke about the importance of always speaking the truth in the same breath!

       

    • Pascal's bookie 12.3

      Wrong link?

      try here:

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/122456/john-tamihere-promises-plain-speaking

      Rules out standing in an electorate, ( leaves list spot open).

      Hilarious part is here:

      “That’s the problem we’ve got in the last grey era of New Zealand politics where everything’s dumbed down so nobody upsets any voter demographic lest they don’t win the Treasury benches.

      “That’s not in me. I just come from a community and a region where we like to spell it out in black and white and some people don’t like that.”

      his whole schtick is that the LP has been upsetting a part of the electorate and that’s why they aren’t winning. What he doesn’t like is when people point out that he spouts a load of bigoted horsehit and expects everyone to shut up about it.

      • mickysavage 12.3.1

        Right you are PB.

        As a fellow resident of that wonderful area known as Waitakere can I say that westies do like to speak simply and say what they think.  But out here there is also a generosity of spirit and generally an acceptance of everyone no matter what their gender, sexual preference or if they want to join a collective. There is also support of community.

         Tamihere would do well to obtain this generosity of spirit because without it he will always fail as a politician.

        • gobsmacked 12.3.1.1

          He hasn’t ruled it out in any meaningful sense.

          Dust settles, time passes, he’ll be “reluctantly” putting his hand up “because so many Labour voters have asked me to …”

  13. One Tāne Huna 13

    This sideshow will go on, but the main issue here is our high level of youth suicide and the part that homophobia, and especially homophobic bullying, plays in that.

    The sideshow amounts to little more than the question “Is there a place for bigots on the left?”

  14. vto 14

    “I think the real issue the “JT” scenario throws up is the fact there’s a group in Labour that think that provincial and/or working class are synonyms for “bigot””

    There’s a group on the left wing that think that white, working class, provincial, male, old people are bigots fullstop.

    Ignorance is everywhere.

    As for Tamihere – he is one of those people who think they call a spade a spade, but in my experience when people think they call a spade a spade they are generally simply quite ignorant about the nuances and background and detail of the spade (eg. is the spade plastic or steel, trowel or shovel, new or historic) and they are also just loudmouths who speak too quickly (e.g. everybody see’s that a spade is needed to dig the garden but the loudmouth shouts out “just use the bloody spade, you idiots” whereupon everybody else quietly rolls their eyes)

  15. Sanctuary 15

    My flatmate is a bit of bloke. He dislikes the Greens as fundamentalist luddites and bolshie feminists as troublemakers. He rides a motorbike, works bloody hard in a (skilled) manual job, drinks Heineken and smokes cigarettes like a chimney. He can’t stand managers, white collar workers are all wankers and he thinks John Key is a dick. He used to vote Labour, voted National in 2008, and didn’t bother last time. He even grew up in Swanson.

    He likes David Tamihere and is pleased he is back in the Labour party.

    There is no question that David Tamihere the iconoclast “connects” with a part of the electorate that isn’t just vital for Labour electorally, but vital for it’s self-identitification as the party of working class New Zealanders as well. The real issue is if David Tamihere the person has the work ethic and discipline expected of a person who wants to a MP again.

    • geoff 15.1

      Ah David Tamihere?

    • felix 15.2

      Errrr, I don’t think there’s much chance of David Tamihere getting elected…

    • Rich 15.3

      smokes cigarettes like a chimney

      Oh well, at least we won’t have to put up with him for too much longer then.

    • Johan 15.4

      I think that JT would be a welcomed addition to the Labour hierarchy. At the moment he is probably kite-flying to see how he stands. JT has the ability to remind the Labour Party what it really is about, return to grass root issues, not merely issues that suits Labour caucus members. Many people are confused when sizing up Tamihere, I believe that many people confuse his sense of humour with not being serious or dumb, which certainly is not the case.

      • karol 15.4.1

        You mean serious grass roots issues, like Charter Schools?

        • Johan 15.4.1.1

          Not at all, Charter Schools would be the domain of National and Act party members and certain libertarians. Labour grass root issues, to me would mean affordable housing and food, subsidised health and day care, availability of jobs and retraining/upskilling in education just to mention a few off the top of my head. Cheers

          • felix 15.4.1.1.1

            Perhaps you’re unaware that Tamihere has been a staunch and very vocal supporter of National’s charter schools. He even wants to run some of his own.

  16. Sanctuary 16

    Opps, my mistake… Still, I think you all get the point of my post.

  17. Olwyn 17

    My concern is not whether or not Tamihere appeals to some sector or other, it is rather that the ABC’s seem rather eager to fill any position they can find with their own supporters, so as to subvert any future vote against their chosen one.

    No one has been publicly censured for their continuous run of leaks to Duncan Garner, which seemed intended to undermine Cunliffe, and Hipkins does not seem, in their eyes, to have “brought the party into disrepute” by voicing fabrications on TV. And no one is much concerned about Jones’s unbridled running off at the mouth.

    Would Chris Carter be welcomed back with similarly open arms? I doubt it. It is much worse, so it seems, to clumsily suggest a leadership spill after an unnecessarily harsh public humiliation, than it is to favour charter schools and to side with the POAL against MUNZ.

    Tamihere’s reinstatement suggests that the ABC’s see the Labour Party rather than the National Party as the thing they need to defeat.

  18. Tracey 18

    Olwyn, if you are right I am minded of the following saying

    “be careful what you wish for… you might just get it.”

  19. gobsmacked 19

    Tamihere has been ranting this afternoon on Radio Live about a journalist (female) who asked him questions. Basic summary: “I’m not a misogynist or homophobe, and any lesbo who says I am can fuck off” (er, not verbatim quote).

    He is so utterly narcissistic that it seems never to occur to him that HE is the privileged one, with unfettered access to a talkback microphone for 3 hours so he can spew, while his new colleagues in the Labour Team have to just put up with it.

    Maybe there’s a smart strategy underlying it all … give him enough rope, let him destroy himself so it’s impossible to select him as a candidate. Given the lack of smartness we’ve seen all year from the Great Labour Strategists, it’s hard to believe they could be that cunning, but with any luck that’s how it will pan out.

  20. tracey 20

    Ghe hasnt ruled out standing he said its a long time til 2014.

  21. karol 21

    Way to go, Nanaia!  Tell it!

    • karol 21.1

      Nanaia Mahuta speaks out against JT, Sepuloni is a little more measured.

      • gobsmacked 21.1.1

        Tamihere’s been a big hit on Twitter today.

        Approx 90% think he’s an idiot. The other 10% aren’t so kind.

        • Jim Nald - Once Was National 21.1.1.1

          RadioLive listeners and members of the public would be well advised to make known their views to RadioLive about this thing called Tamihere.

          What would be the best email, fax, snail mail address or phone number? Here: http://www.mediaworks.co.nz/Default.aspx?tabid=267 ?

          Can people note the advertisers as well and share the info, eg here, so that those of us who write to RadioLive can also copy to or address our comments directly to the advertisers.

          • quartz 21.1.1.1.1

            What a fragile ego he’s got.

          • Johan 21.1.1.1.2

            JN, who cares? How many people listen to RadioLive. Many people seem to be getting side-tracked (JT is a minor issue) away from Labour needing to have an effective leader, who is able to match it with John Key in a debate. Also, why isn’t Shearer being more robust in the House, afterall he is the leader of the opposition, who should shame the Nats for their many blunders while in govt.

        • felix 21.1.1.2

          “90% think he’s an idiot. The other 10% aren’t so kind.”

          Annoying idiot or evil fuck?

  22. Paula Bennet is fat. Problem? Labour is too PC. I won’t be voting for them. Ever.

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