Key Derangement Syndrome

Written By: - Date published: 8:06 am, March 1st, 2016 - 232 comments
Categories: Dirty Politics, making shit up, spin - Tags: , , , ,

Bryce Edwards had one of his regular political roundups in The Herald yesterday:

Increasing hatred for John Key?

Last week Patrick Gower argued “There is no doubt the Prime Minister is experiencing a more visceral hatred than ever before this year” – see: Danger signs but never underestimate John Key. Gower points out that what Key has been through already this year – booed at the Auckland nines and the Big Gay Out and “targeted by a dangerous internal leak” – was “previously unthinkable”. He argues it’s a sign of a “new found disrespect” as Key’s detractors have been emboldened by vibrant opposition to the TPP. …

Edwards goes on to cover many other pieces with similar observations of Key’s fading star, and so on. But here’s how the piece begins:

There appears to be a growing hatred of John Key, especially from the political left. Some label this phenomenon “Key Derangement Syndrome”. But is this anger toward the prime minister simply an understandable by-product of personality-driven politics and a polarised society?

Matthew Hooton has a theory that the New Zealand political left suffers from “Key Derangement Syndrome” (KDS). By this he means that political activists – especially those aligned with Labour and the Greens – tend to have an irrational hatred of John Key that is out of line with reality and with the wider public. According to Hooton, sufferers of KDS are hamstrung by their hatred of Key as their lack of perspective undermines their effectiveness as an opposition.

I’m a little bit surprised that Edwards takes Key Derangement Syndrome seriously. People have always hated politicians, there’s nothing special about Key. “KDS” is just standard political framing from the usual dirty operatives, Farrar / Slater / Hooton. There is no such thing as KDS, it’s a made-up term designed to mock and belittle any criticism of their primary asset. Dislike that Nice Mr Key? Why you must be mad!

Expect to see plenty more accusations of KDS as Key cops more and more criticism. Pretty brazen really, from the crew who ran an active and very personal hate campaign against Helen Clark.

Just a suggestion of course, but perhaps KDS really stands for “Key Defensive Sycophancy”.

232 comments on “Key Derangement Syndrome ”

  1. roy cartland 1

    A thinking person reviews evidence and arrives at a conclusion.
    A bigot harbours a prejudice then hunts for ways to justify it.
    Is it possible that a thinking person can ‘hate’ John Key, or at least the policies and ideologies that he symbolises? Without being deranged?

    • Rosie 1.1

      +1 roy. Of course. No derangement necessary to form a distrust and dislike of Key based upon the evidence of his promotion and implementation of socially harmful policy combined with his power abusing personality. (see Sabine’s comment below regarding harassment of Amanda Bailey).

      We’ve seen this KDS term used a bit here on TS by Key supporters and apologists. I see it’s use as being a frightened knee jerk reaction to Key’s diminishing popularity. They would rather make up a desperate sounding term than suffer the embarrassment of acknowledging that “you know, I could have been wrong about Key” or face the fact that the Key they blindly had faith in doesn’t square with the reality that Key is manipulative, abusive and deceitful, and his leadership has seen the country go backwards.

      Look at the past month of protest against the Key government. It has been relentless – more activity than we’ve seen in the whole seven years he’s been in power.

      The right are wrong if they think this is limited to some “left activists”. They are the ones who are deranged if they believe this. As mentioned in the post, their were boo’s (really loud ones) at a rugby league crowd and boo’s (again really loud ones) that went on for over 3 minutes when Key took to the stage at the BGO, before he had to eventually step down.
      There was a crowd of 1000 in CHCH on the eve of the 5th anniversary of the quake protesting their treatment at the hands of EQC and insurance companies. There was the massive TPPA demo in Auckland that blocked city roads for hours.

      And on top of all that you have traditional and conservative Nat voters such as RSA members opposing the Key Vanity Project.

      So there is a wide cross section of society becoming fed up with Key.

      Nothing deranged about that.

      • aerobubble 1.1.1

        Key said no GST rise, yet we got one and it was called a tax cut.
        Now Key says TPPA will help farmers, yet it doesn’t, locking in US farm subsidizes and the US withdrawing from international talks to remove them.
        Two faced Key would not have been able to pass TPPA had he been open.

      • Sacha 1.1.2

        “They would rather make up a desperate sounding term than suffer the embarrassment of acknowledging that “you know, I could have been wrong about Key”

        They do not care. More cynical that you would believe. This desperate PM is their tool, not their master.

    • whateva next? 1.2

      “Is it possible that a thinking person can ‘hate’ John Key, or at least the policies and ideologies that he symbolises? Without being deranged?”
      As a “thinking person” I would answer “of course, seems obvious” one day when the little boy points out the emperor has no clothes on, Hooten will wake up and start squealing about knowing all along Key was a phony etc.

      • Redbaiter 1.2.1

        Hooton is often critical of Key already.

        And rightfully so.

        There is in fact plenty of real reason to be critical of Key. However the effect of any criticism has been blunted by the left’s tendency to make it personal rather than policy.

        For example the pony tail event, which they pushed hard and heavy for so long.

        When Key’s “good economic management” is an illusion underpinned by massive borrowing (debt is now around $100 billion) and capital inflow from Chinese communists laundering their money in NZ real estate.

        Which is the real issue and which is the non-issue?

        Labour cried wolf on the non issues and thereby blunted their ability to hit hard with any real issues.

        • Sacha

          People vote on character more than policy. I agree that’s undesirable, but there we go.

          • Redbaiter

            True, but assuming that an opposition party only has a certain amount of capital to use on criticism, because of the danger of appearing over-critical, they need to try and make sure it hits as hard as possible.

            For myself, I think Key and Nats have been let off the hook by Labour, who have never challenged them enough on their claim to be good economic managers.

            In fact NZ’s so called economic well being is only sustained by borrowing, as the steady increase in debt shows, and selling Auckland off to Chinese communists. In the hope that if they keep doing this long enough things will come right.

            Now with a world wide recession on the cards, it doesn’t look like it will come right, and if so, then the Nats will suddenly hear the loud thud of their good economic management claims colliding with reality.

            They’re gone when that happens. Its only their smoke and mirrors economy that is keeping them popular.

        • Redbaiter

          Sorry, debt around $70 billion, spending getting close to $100 billion.

        • whateva next?

          National dictating the narrative….

  2. AmaKiwi 2

    Business confidence takes a sharp drop ( ), incumbent governments are ousted in Iran and Ireland.

    The mood of society is becoming gloomier and angrier.

    Challengers who reflect this anger will get elected (Trump).

    Politics is about the mood of society more than about policies.

  3. Sabine 3

    I think you could turn the Term around and hang it around the necks of those like Gower that will defend the Prime Minister on everything and against everyone.

    Pulls the Ponytail of an unwilling women, Ah shucks, the PM needs a bit of entertainment and after all he is just horsing around and she should just horse around with the PM. – A classic case of KDS.

    • Grindlebottom 3.1

      I like that Sabine. Hooton, Farrar, Slater, and all the other RWNJs & sycophants who think Key’s a great leader are the ones suffering from Key Derangement Syndrome.

    • Grindlebottom 3.2

      I agree, Hooton, Farrar, Gower, Hosking, Henry and all the other sycophants and RWNJs who think Key is a great leader are the ones suffering from Key Derangement Syndrome. He may be an undoubtedly successful con artist with a Clintonesque teflon exterior but he’s not a great leader.

      • Whateva next? 3.2.1

        Agree.Very strange when those who do not like Key and all he stands for are out in the spotlight….,……… What about asking people to explain what they like about him?

  4. miravox 4

    There’s nothing special about it. I disliked Jenny Shipley at least as much as I dislike the current PM. Both are lying, callous pretenders.

  5. RedLogix 5

    I’ve rarely commented about Key himself. I don’t like his lazy politics, nor his smiling suit management style, but he’s no fool and I’m on record a number of times saying the Left has underestimated him at considerable cost.

    But what does ‘derange’ me is watching a clearly bought and paid for media over and again letting Key get away with shit that they would have crucified Clark for.

    • mosa 5.1

      Keys position should have been untenable after the dirty politics deception.
      A labour PM would have been hounded out of office by a vicious right wing collabaration with MSM support
      Remember the outcry when Labour overspent at the 2005 election and Brownlee screaming in parliment demanding the money be repaid which of course it was.
      This country has moved away from the strict standards we were proud of including accountability.
      We are in the words of the NZ Herald a one party state-NATIONAL of course.

  6. Ad 6

    Hooten would do better to figure out why the business confidence ratings have gone through the floor, every single NZ oil and mineral exporting company is shutting up shop, and banks are preparing just the first round of dairy farm foreclosures.

    Honey, it ain’t just the left.

    • BM 6.1

      What? the arse has fallen out of the commodities market, that’s why every one is leaving
      Drilling for deep sea oil at the current price, you’d have to be a complete idiot.

      • Ad 6.1.1

        You may recall that drilling and mining were a core of this current government’s economic development policy. Whoops.

        As was dairy. Darn.

        Business confidence falls are a strong indicator of business confidence in the government.

        • BM

          Yeah, but you do realise nothing is static?, factors do change

          What was a good idea last year, could be shit the next, drilling for oil is not a good idea currently so it’s been put back on the shelf.

          This is what it’s like to be in business, some ideas a winners, some are losers, some could be winners but the timing is wrong.

          • Ad

            Except this is the longest dairy price slump the world’s ever experienced.

            It’s also the longest oil price slump the world’s experienced in over 50 years.

            Need I comment on the government’s business acumen on coal?

            This government has backed the most colossal set of loser industries that we’ve seen since they finished making television sets in Waihi. And I wasn’t even born then.

            Business has figured it out.

            • Wayne


              The fact the economy is has broadly held up despite the reduction in dairy prices (according to you the worst the world has ever experienced) shows that there is rather more depth in the economy than many on this site seem to believe.

              For New Zealand a reduction in oil prices is basically a good thing. We are a net consumer of oil.

              Now of course the next couple of years could be all doom and gloom on the economic front, given the most parts of the world (though not Europe or the Middle East) have had 6 years of sustained growth.

              The growth has been the principal reason why the government has retained its popularity, coupled with its careful stewardship during the recession. And I am prepared to give some credit to Dr Cullen in paying down enough debt that meant the incoming National government to borrow during the recession at a level that did not seriously affect the stability of the economy, but which sustained activity. Of course we did have to prune back virtually all the surge of Labour’s 2008 budget expenditure. Otherwise debt would be much higher than it is today.

              If one looks at typical economic cycles of the last thirty or more years, there should be a retraction within the next two or three years. The last “up” phase lasted from 1998 to 2008, with a savage retraction for 2 to 3 years (mid 2008 to 2010).

              • s y d

                broadly held up by…..earthquake rebuilding, an ongoing fire sale of residency encouraging mass immigration, money laundering on a monumental scale, massive borrowing to fund tax cuts (ahh offset no doubt by the fiscally neutral rise in GST) and huge debt based property bubble.
                The government has retained is wafer thin majority by its careful stewardship of it’s own voters interests at the expense of the rest of NZ.
                IIRC Mr Key announced in his election night speech in 2008 that he was going to govern for all NZ’ers. A far cry from his..’well they don’t vote for us so yeah”.

                • integralenz

                  Well said, SYD. Exactly

                • Amanda Atkinson

                  If an earth quake was good for the economy , lets just drop bombs on all our other cities instead, geez, that gives me the screaming shits listening it idiots who think natural disasters are good for the economy.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Odd that you don’t think the injection of billions in new funds due to the Christchurch earthquake hasn’t helped pay a lot of people and a lot of small businesses.

                    It has.

                    What kind of economic incompetence are you sporting?

                  • Andre

                    Rebuilding from natural disasters increases GDP. Waging wars increases GDP too. Which shows what a crap measurement GDP is.

                  • Murray Simmonds

                    What do you think the American War Machine exists for, Amanda?

                  • Amanda, if you spent a multi-billion dollar rainy day fund while mismanaging the economy, regardless of why you had to spend it, you would expect it to make the economy look better managed.

                    This is exactly what happened to the National government. GDP looks great when people are making successful insurance claims to fix their property. But all it really means is that we’re depleting our savings and insurance funds. (govt and private)

              • Ad

                So it’s really the fault of business for just not understanding National’s obvious truth and effectiveness.

              • Colonial Viper

                The fact the economy is has broadly held up despite the reduction in dairy prices (according to you the worst the world has ever experienced) shows that there is rather more depth in the economy than many on this site seem to believe.

                LOL Wayne

                It’s early days mate, you get that, right? The negative flow through from the farming sector is going to take a little while more to get through the entire economy.

                But provincial farming centres, far from where you are, are already feeling a hard pinch.

                • Wayne

                  Well, I have been traveling around over the summer. Much of tourism is based in the regions and the beneficial economic impact is very evident. Of course dairy farmers don’t get direct benefit of that but many people in the regions do. Also not all agriculture is down. Meat is doing well, as is wine and most horticulture.
                  Manufacturing has done quite well in the last few years. Construction in Auckland is strong.
                  The left has been saying for the last few years it is all doom and gloom, but in fact NZ has done quite well over the last 5 years (look at the annual growth rates and the employment levels).
                  I do appreciate there are risks ahead, and on cyclical measures of growth and recession, an economic retraction is likely in the next two or three years.

                  • The employment levels only JUST recovered from the government’s mismanagement, Wayne, and we still bled about 40,000 jobs in that time. That’s a lot to make up for.

                    The government has coasted on the Canterbury rebuild pumping up GDP and creating temporary jobs for over half a decade now. It needs to actually do something useful for the economy if it wants its sunny stats to continue now that the insurance payouts are winding down.

                  • RedBaronCV

                    Lovey to hear that things are going so well for you and your cohort Wayne.
                    Judging by what you say your lot will no doubt be absolutely delighted to pay back the $130 billion that your goverement has borrowed.
                    You’re not going to do that? Really why not? Please explain – everything is going so well isn’t it.

              • Draco T Bastard

                For New Zealand a reduction in oil prices is basically a good thing. We are a net consumer of oil.

                No it’s not as we shouldn’t be a net consumer of oil. Nor should we be exporting it. This is called living within your means.

                And that doesn’t even take into account climate change.

                The growth has been the principal reason why the government has retained its popularity, coupled with its careful stewardship during the recession.

                There’s been no real growth in NZ and NZ government debt has exploded under this government. The only thing that’s happened is a housing bubble that this government seems determined to keep going.

                Under no circumstances can that be considered careful stewardship.

                And no government should borrow money ever – they should just create it.

              • Lloyd

                Careful stewardship includes roads of national uselessness while letting railway lines fall apart?

                • Lloyd

                  And don’t forget dropping taxes for the rich while cutting services left, right and centre,
                  And how about giving money to Saudi billionaires,
                  Read the blog!

                  Careful stewardship in your language must mean throwing money on the sky city tables.

          • Lanthanide

            Be nice if the government had a broad and balanced strategy, instead of just focussing on a few ‘high value’ industries.

            • Lloyd

              And they can’t even get a good deal for the dairy industry after years of TPPA negotiations – useless at advancing one of their central economic planks.

      • Redbaiter 6.1.2

        The oil price would be OK, its the National Govt and its new regulations that make it too costly to drill for.

        Compliance costs probably run to $30 /bbl. Maybe even more.

        I mentioned this to Andrew Little, but he said he was fine with it. Apparently he’d rather pander to loony tune watermelons than look after the jobs of workers, or go after the Nationals.

  7. One Anonymous Bloke 7

    Leaving the obvious Dirty framing to one side, I think I’d rather hate destructive divisive vandalism than succumb to Stockholm syndrome.

    • alwyn 7.1

      With the extreme views that are so routinely expressed about Key and the Government he leads I am rather scared that the “Stockholm syndrome” we should worry about is not the one you refer to but instead that which struck down PM Olaf Palme in 1986 and Foreign Minister Anna Lindh in 2003.

      • Matthew Hooton 7.1.1

        I think that’s right. I think there is a very real risk the political left in NZ will soon explode into violence out of feelings of hate and their own impotence.

        • McFlock

          we’re stockpiling the dildos already… /sarc

        • Jenny Kirk

          Both you and alwyn are just stirring up trouble, Matthew Hooton.

          What you are suggesting is not at all what left-wing NZers think of doing .

          This is just you and other rightwingers bullsh – – – – – because your leader is in a bit of trouble.

          • International Rescue

            Jenny, Matthew’s concerns are reasonable, given the increasingly violent approach by the left. Throwing objects at people is assault. It is not clever, and it is not legitimate protest.

            • Anne

              Aha… so you’re blaming the entire left for the actions of a couple of single individuals? Did you blame the entire right for the actions of ‘single individuals’ in Helen Clark’s days? Like the individual who was threatening Clark at a Ch.Ch. function which caused the police to get her out of the city as fast as they could – the primary cause of the speeding motorcade incident which the media chose to ignore. Or the fellow who smashed Clark’s electorate windows with an axe?

              No. you didn’t did you.

              • alwyn

                “which caused the police to get her out of the city as fast as they could”
                That seems a very odd explanation for why Helen’s motorcade travelled so fast.
                You do remember I assume where the cars were travelling TO when the speeding took place. They were going TO Christchurch. Now why would the Police take her to the city if they were trying to get her out of the city?

                As for “Did you blame the entire right”. Of course not. However no one is blaming the entire left for the behaviour of the deranged individuals who assaulted Joyce and Brownlee either. You only need one nutter unfortunately in order to get a tragedy. John Wilkes Booth for example.

                • Anne

                  Ooops, you’re right. The incident must have occurred in Waimate – or thereabouts – and the speeding took place between Waimate and ChCh. Yep, the drivers were travelling fast to catch a plane to Wellington, but that may have been the result of the incident. Iirc, the info. didn’t come out until some time later (there may have been concerns of a copy cat attempt) but someone was apparently threatening Clark. I don’t know whether it was verbal or whether the person was carrying a weapon of some sort but the police saw fit to get her out of the area as fast as they could. For some reason, that aspect of the story was never reported in any detail so can’t enlighten further.

                  Whatever… the police detail who were with her and the driver of the car were cleared of any wrong doing which, in the apparent circumstances, was a good outcome.

              • International Rescue

                “so you’re blaming the entire left for the actions of a couple of single individuals?”

                Nope. And nor was Matthew. I was responding to Jenny’s comment “What you are suggesting is not at all what left-wing NZers think of doing.” The reality is that some in the left are resorting to violence out of frustration that their viewpoint is not being shared by the wider community.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  In fact, it’s disgust at the policies and behaviour of the National Party.

                  I note you are incapable of constructing an argument without succumbing to logic fail, in this case, pretending to be a mind reader. That’s ok, though, because it means you fit neatly within the typical pattern of monumental incompetence.

                  In other words, you’re malicious because you’re stupid.

                  • International Rescue

                    I may be disgusted with the policies of Len Brown, but I would never assault him. No logic fail, just an ounce of decency. national are the elected government. They are the most popular party in parliament by a long stretch. Disgust at their policies does not justify assault.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Meanwhile, on Earth, you are not a mind reader; it is your limited intelligence that deludes you that you can sense frustration in others, and leads you to your logic fail.

                      Your malice is born of stupidity.

                    • International Rescue

                      Neither frustration or disgust warrants assault. Is there something about this you don’t agree with?

        • BM

          Do you think the SIS should get involved ?, do some background checking and see how valid the threat is?

          • McFlock

            run surveillance on all the sex shops, that sort of thing.
            No shortage of volunteers from the security services there…

            • BM

              Yeah that’s the one.

              Honestly though, there seems to be some seriously unhinged people on the left, hard to know who’s just an internet blow hard and who’s a deranged crazy.

              It might pay to just play it safe and check every one out.

              • weka

                Lol, so spins the man with a Mad Max fantasy.

              • McFlock


                So by that logic, someone who’s filmed himself hacking websites to get inhe shouldn’t have access to, someone who has allegedly hired others to commit more serious crimes to further his political objectives, should have the close attention of not just the police but the SIS as well?

              • Gabby

                Hootie Blowhard’s no leftie. But you’re right, the SIS should give him the once-over. See what else he’s ‘worried’ about.

              • AB

                “It might pay to just play it safe and check every one out”.
                I think the security services came to a similar conclusion long before you BM. Not “every one” of course, just the more visible.

        • Sacha

          “and their own impotence”

          ooh, fair bit of projection there looking at the antics of Slater, Lusk, and Carrick via their latest mark, Palino. Soft little lads clutching guns.

        • Saarbo

          Key’s Flag failure will ease our pain…looking forward to that.

          • Anne

            The Herald went to Flagsstaff Lane , Wellington to find out which way people intended to vote. There were six of them (photos’n all). One voting for the current flag. One is undecided. Four voting for new flag. Given the polls are pointing in the opposite direction you get the feeling….

        • AB

          “I think there is a very real risk the political left in NZ will soon explode into violence”
          You don’t think that at all – bullshit artist.

        • ankerawshark

          No Mathew. That’s the latest attempt to spin the left as violent.

          BTW, your Key Derangement Syndrome is ridiculous. By terming it you imply some sort of pathology of the mind of the left. You are not trained or qualified to determine pathology of the mind.

          But your job is to spin for the Govt. The left see through you and the spin of this Govt. Understandably we are angry.
          In terms of hating Key, I do hate him. I am afraid I do. Not too many people I hate. But when I hear about the kids in Christchurch suffering from real pathology i.e. genuine mental health problems as a result of the quakes and I read from reputable sources that Chch mental health service are underfunded and then I hear Key on breakfast tv spinning that those services aren’t underfunded its just that more people have moved to Chch after the earthquakes, I think you piece of slime. I don’t think that is a deranged thought at all. I think it is a decent, moral way to view the situation.

          How does that all sit with you Mathew? Still liking John Key after that one? If is sit’s o.k. with you then perhaps other commenters on this post are correct and the so-called Key Derangement Syndrome is the syndrome of those on the right who are in denial about how damaging JK Govt’s policies are.

          Do you have the guts to respond to that?

          • Rob

            Key doesn’t lie he bullshits and bully’s
            People who bullshit are much more dangerous than those who lie
            Liars know what is true but bullshitters just want to be one up and control

        • whateva next?

          Do you have Key Derangement syndrome Mathew? His influence seems to affected your cognitive abilities/judgement

        • ann johns

          How very typical of this american loving govt and it’s sycophants. Obama Derangement Syndrome was a term used by them way back in 2011. Been trolling for ideas?

          • Matthew Hooton

            It started with Clinton Derangement Syndrome in the 1990s I think. Not sure if there was Bush1 Derangement Syndrome and Reagan Derangement Syndrome. So it is quite common. But KDS is very strong in NZ at present, as this whole thread proves.

            • vto

              and as you just proved its validity, thanks

              try trump derangement syndrome if it helps you understand

            • ankerawshark

              Was it well researched and found to be valid and reliable? What are the symptoms of KDS? If it is just selectively attending to all the negative things a politician does, does the reverse arise, i.e. only attending to positive qualities, traits and actions of the politicians and deleting, distorting problematic behaviour and actions, e.g continuing to pull a waitresses hair when she has let you know it is unwanted? The example I gave about underfunding Chch mental health services and then presenting spin as to why that is not the case???????

              I ask these questions, because as I freely admitted I hate JK. But you see part of my hatred is born out of the failure of the NZders and the media to see him and his policies for what what they are. Hopeless at best (with the odd exception and highly detrimental to the people of this country). If we had a media who in any way challenged Key, rather than as some have suggested on this post, have Key Devotion Syndrome, I doubt I would have to carry the hate so to speak. I think this is a better formulation of the phenomena you are noticing. And as is to be expected from you you spin KDS as something to do to with those who hate Key on the left. As oppose the something more meaningful. That our hate is generated by the dis-joint between what we know is going on and how Key and the msm present it. In my view my hatred of this is quite rational and reasonable.

  8. Stuart Munro 8

    Hooten is a funny guy – ostensibly on the right, he barely voices a peep about Key’s irresponsible economics.

    NZ has a lot of problems and we need competent government. Incompetent government is costly and creates more problems than it solves.

    I don’t like Key. I didn’t like Clark or Shipley or Bolger or Lange or Muldoon. They don’t seem to have done a credible job and they love to tell folk how to live their lives. They made NZ poorer and our lives harder and more constrained.

    Key is the worst of them because he is still doing harm. The simplest way to mitigate that harm is to remove Key. NZ has no impeachment process but clearly we need one. In the meantime other methods must be contemplated, including but not limited to pelting him with phallic objects and gagging him with his stupid bacon wrapper ‘flag’.

    • alwyn 8.1

      “they love to tell folk how to live their lives”.
      That is merely the definition of a politician. Every politician believes that they, and only they, are the source of all wisdom. They are RIGHT and the commoners had better remember it and obey them.
      If you think the ones you name were bad just think how much worse the ideologues in the Green Party would be if they ever got near the Government benches.

      • Stuart Munro 8.1.1

        You clearly know less than nothing about the Greens and how they develop policy.

        Parties of the ‘right’, like baboons, subordinate their intelligence to a single alpha leader – in your case the execrable reptile Key – the Greens run policy forums where ideas are in fact debated. Prejudices like yours do not get to loiter indefinitely without means of support.

        • alwyn

          They may have “policy forums”. The ideas may be “in fact debated”.
          So what? It just means that there are more politicians involved in addition to the ones in Parliament.
          The Green Party will still end up with policies. It is just more people who are in the group who “love to tell folk how to live their lives”.
          Why does control by a lot become any more benevolent than control by a few? The public still get to vote on who are to become the Government. Even if they pick people who are, in your opinion, evil. You may want to prevent it but it doesn’t mean that you are right.

          I would also like to know what gives you the right to make such stupid comments as “in your case the execrable reptile” etc.
          I regard John Key as being exactly the same as ALL politicians. If you read my comment carefully you would see that. Instead you simply project your silly prejudices onto me and claim you know my beliefs. That simply shows how one-eyed you are.

          • Stuart Munro

            Congratulations – you have hit upon what looks superficially like a halfway decent argument. “It’s just more people in the group”

            No it’s not. Democracy is not a process of control, it is a process of assent. This is what you Key idolators either never understood or have chosen to forget – his only authority is as a representative of the people.

            The flag is a perfect example – a surprising number of people who frankly don’t like the union jack and would cheerfully support the change to almost anything now reject Key’s choice because the arrogant son-of-a-bitch thinks he’s entitled to impose his choice on them. If he had kept his views and his sycophants out of the process the fern flag would probably have succeeded.

            You may embrace the rich tapestry of dirty politics with Lusk & Whaleoil – but that is contrary to democratic practice and I think anyone subverting democratic process in that fashion is a traitor and should dealt with as traitors historically are, by the application of sanctions that the Standard prefers we not discuss.

            You think Key is the same – but to me he is the worst I’ve seen in the long unattractive parade of ambulant dog-tucker shambling through parliament.

            I suppose you think I have to ask your permission to say so? As it happens that’s only in your crazy cryptofascist dreams.

            • alwyn

              “you Key idolators”. That is b*s. I am not, and never have been such a thing.
              “the arrogant son-of-a-bitch thinks he’s entitled to impose his choice on them”
              How on earth can you even consider making such a ridiculous statement? We are going to have a vote on the matter, aren’t we? Only people who suffer very badly from KDS could possibly believe that he will somehow fiddle the result of the referendum.
              “You may embrace the rich tapestry of dirty politics”. Another of your statements that is total b*s.
              “I suppose you think I have to ask your permission”. You suppose wrong, as you seem to do in most of your “suppositions”. You don’t need my permission to make an ass of yourself.
              “your crazy cryptofascist dreams” You really are beginning to sound more and more deranged.

              • Stuart Munro

                The ostensible point of a flag referendum was to allow an independent vote – ok on the face of it, though not asking whether people wanted to change the flag first was costly and attempted to subvert the process.

                The unnecessary flag panel was stacked with Key goons who were paid infinitely more than they were worth. Bribery.

                Key’s own endorsement, his ringing in of celebrities to push his choice, his newspaper columns for heavens sake all demonstrate his desire to procure his preferred result.

                It shouldn’t be about him, it should be about New Zealand.

                You’re no better than most of the tr0lls here Alwyn – I see you’ve learned a new word ‘deranged’. Do you expect a stamp on your hand and a pat on the head from your mum? On kiwiblog maybe – not here.

                • alwyn

                  You really aren’t very sensible are you? You claim that we had an
                  “unnecessary flag panel was stacked with Key goons”

                  The panel was as follows

                  Prof John Burrows (Chair), ONZM, QC
                  Nicky Bell
                  Peter Chin, CNZM
                  Julie Christie, ONZM
                  Rod Drury
                  Beatrice Faumuina, ONZM
                  Kate de Goldi (Deputy Chair)
                  Lt Gen (Rtd) Rhys Jones, CNZM
                  Stephen Jones
                  Sir Brian Lochore, ONZ, KNZM, OBE
                  Malcolm Mulholland
                  Hana O’Regan

                  Before you tell us who are “Key Goons” I suggest you look at the group who picked them. It was comprised of the following people

                  Jonathan Young (Chair) National
                  Hon Trevor Mallard Labour
                  Dr Kennedy Graham Green
                  Marama Fox Māori
                  David Seymour ACT
                  Hon Peter Dunne United Future

                  New Zealand First chose not to nominate a member. Perhaps you can explain just how a panel which had one member from each party in the house could possibly have come up with a “stacked” panel of Key enthusiasts?

                  KDS is very strong in you, isn’t it?

                  • repateet

                    ” how a panel which had one member from each party in the house could possibly have come up with a “stacked” panel of Key enthusiasts?”

                    Depends on the list they were chosen from then from there it was just like the Select Committee process, you know, fair and democratic and only based on sound, intelligent reasoning.

                    And there’s no way the National man, the ACT man and the Maori Party woman would have acted in cahoots.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    The flag panel was unnecessary in the first place – if you’re going to the expense of two referenda the least you can do is let the people choose.

                    But get out there and sell it Alwyn – hot and cold running corruption – and you love it. I guess you’re expecting a slice of it at some point.

                    Far-right tr0lls – I have more intelligent things growing in my garden.

                  • weka

                    Mallard and Graham aside, aren’t all the others Key’s goons anyway? (Plus I’m not sure about Mallard)

      • Anno1701 8.1.2

        “f you think the ones you name were bad just think how much worse the ideologues in the Green Party would be if they ever got near the Government benches.”

        you can give us an example of one of these Policy’s ?

        • alwyn

          Why are you asking about “policy’s”.
          The phrase “the ones you name” referred to people. Clark or Shipley etc.
          An “ideologue” is a person.

          Someone like the noted advocate of homeopathic remedies, Steffan Browning. Pharmac would have to fund them I suspect.
          Denise Roche would put the minimum wage up to $19.80 an hour. After all that is what a person supporting a family needs. To bad if that is only a tiny proportion of the population.
          Julie Genter will stop all road building and build lots of railways and cycleways, no doubt. To hell with what the public might think.
          Gareth Hughes will set a price that electricity generators MUST pay anyone who sticks a solar panel on their roof and has some surplus power. Don’t worry what it costs or whether anyone needs it. I know better would be his policy.

          • aidan

            its funny how you point out these kind of policies as being somehow terrible, I think they are actually quite good

            • alwyn

              So, apparently, do about 10% of New Zealand voters.
              I suppose that means, in this quote attributed to Abe Lincoln, that “Some of the people” means 10%. Luckily “all of the people” weren’t fooled.

              “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time”.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Actually, I believe it’s about 80 percent that like Green Party policies. The problem is that people are voting for parties rather than policies. Why do you think I advocate participatory democracy over the elected dictatorship that we have?

          • Draco T Bastard

            Gareth Hughes will set a price that electricity generators MUST pay anyone who sticks a solar panel on their roof and has some surplus power.

            You really should do some research before you mouth off and prove you ignorance.

            That policy is that the electricity companies would have to pay the wholesale price to home generators, i.e, the same price that they pay the corporations for electricity.

            • alwyn

              That wasn’t what he had in his Private Member’s Bill that was tossed out by Parliament in November last year.
              That said ” sets a fair and reasonable minimum rate, which must be greater than the wholesale electricity price ….”
              Greater is not the same as, is it?

              • Stuart Munro

                Your concern for the profitability of the corporate thieves who stole much of our public electricity capacity is touching.

            • inslider

              You should have learnt by now dtb that telling someone else to do their research is a sure way to reveal your own inadequate efforts. P9 of the greens solar policy says the electricity authority will set a fair price between the retail and wholesale price.

              • alwyn

                Oh well, you said it for me.
                I manfully resisted the temptation to quote back to him his own statement.
                “You really should do some research before you mouth off and prove you ignorance.”
                I have now succumbed to the temptation.

          • Sacha

            “Julie [Anne] Genter will stop all road building and build lots of railways and cycleways, *no doubt*”

            Making shit up, I see. Must go down a treat at the RSA.

            • alwyn

              Well this was the Green Policy before the last election.
              It was announced by Norman but it was the work of Genter.

              Note the words “the massive increase in public transport investment would be at the expense of highways” and “spending on cycling and walking infrastructure would increase by 300 per cent”
              That sounds like they would cut out the major highway developments and spend it on trains and cycleways to me.
              They do allow that they will continue to do road maintenance I suppose. No new roads though.

              • Sacha

                Liar. From the same article:

                “But motorways would not be completely neglected under a Green Government.

                Dr Norman said: “We will also invest in making roads safer by upgrading our state highways. Over ten years we plan to spend $3 billion on projects to improve state highways, making safety the number one priority.”

                His party’s transport spokeswoman, Julie Anne Genter, said the Greens would spend no less than National on maintaining highways and local roads.”

                • alwyn

                  Just which part of it is a lie?
                  “cut out major highway developments” perhaps?
                  “No new roads” perhaps?
                  Well actually they are both completely accurate. They proposed to spend money making existing roads safer. They proposed to go on maintaining the highways and local roads.
                  As I said though, and as is entirely true.
                  No major highway developments and no new roads.
                  Do you always have such trouble understanding the English language?

    • CnrJoe 9.1

      And in the Joyce segment Oliver dismisses Key as “N.Z’s ridiculous prime minister..’

      • pat 9.1.1

        I have resolved to post this clip anytime RWNJs get bent out of shape about the questioning of Keys credentials…..the man is an overrated clown, his reputed ability to “judge what matters to ordinary kiwis’ is simply the product of CT data collection…and his cabinet no better

  9. Jenny Kirk 10

    Totally agree with you rOb – looks to me like Bryce Edwards has fallen for the KDS big time. For a political scientist he’s peculiarly one-sided !

  10. Ovid 11

    It’s not uncommon for the right in NZ to adopt memes from the US. Charles Krauthammer coined the term “Bush Derangement Syndrome” in 2003 to make a claim that criticisms of Bush arose from an emotional place rather than from one of fact and logic. Of course since then his national security policies, decision to invade Iraq and economic policies that helped precipitate the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression saw his approval drop to the low 20s by the time he left office.

    In New Zealand, many of the criticisms around Key point to his mishandling of the Auckland housing crisis, his failure to diversify the economy away from dairy, his failure to maintain investment in the Cullen fund to secure superannuation into the future, his asset sales programme which surrendered a significant income stream for the state coffers, and his privatisation of core state services in education (charter schools), justice (contracted prison services) and social housing. Not to mention the TPP, which he’s done an inartful job of selling to the public. Christchurch is still languishing half a decade after the earthquakes and the Canterbury Regional Council is still not accountable to its electorate at the ballot box. The only achievements I can think of is building a few roads (which don’t have a great return on investment) and ultra-fast broadband – which we were heading towards regardless of government.

    All these considerations have led me to the conclusion that Key is a mediocre prime minister who has allowed the country to drift in a direction where democratic accountability for the decisions around core government matters has been neutered. I don’t hate the man, but I have weighed him and found him wanting.

    • AmaKiwi 11.1

      This is entirely my personal perspective. If you lie to me or cheat me, I will NEVER do business with you again. Key certainly fills that bill.

      • cogito 11.1.1


        The moment I sniff a liar I go in the opposite direction.

        • Anne

          Early in 2008 John Key said in an interview he couldn’t remember whether he was for or against the 1981 Springbok tour. He was a first year uni student and he could not have avoided having a view of some sort. He lied of course. He didn’t want to admit he had been on the pro-tour side because he didn’t want to be associated with losers – time proved the pro-tour supporters had been wrong.

          From that moment I knew he could never be trusted to tell the truth about anything.

          • cogito

            The amazing thing is that he is allowed to get away with it.

            Back in my younger days in the UK, I used to watch the likes of Robin Day and Brian Walden interview politicians and absolutely put them through the mincer until they squirmed. They would have outed Key as a fake in no time flat!

            • Gangnam Style

              You see Key on UKs Hard Talk cogito? He gets utterly grilled & hung out to dry. Shows how much ‘our’ media cover for him.

              • International Rescue

                It’s interesting how the passage of time has been kind to much of what John Key says in the interview, including the turnaround in migration and the economic recovery. Meanwhile, where is Phill Goff?

              • North

                The last bit’s hilarious, even more so when we consider that NZ MSM has routinely allowed Key to get away with “I don’t agree…..”. No wonder when pressed by a real interviewer without anything to lose in terms of patronage he got those tragic “please don’t bash me……” eyes.

              • cogito

                He got it easy…. The guys I mentioned would have torn him to shreds and then fed him to the wolves.

              • Whateva next?

                Not very “charismatic” either! no wonder Cameron has been attempting to undermine BBC, it manages to undo all of Crosby Textors work in an hour.

          • repateet

            The really good thing is that since that first decision John Key has continually reinforced your view about him being trusted to tell the truth.

          • weston

            i thought the same anne the springbok tour polarized the whole country so how could you not know how you felt at the time w.t.f.?! !Pretty stupid to decide to lie about too afterall he would have gained considerable cred for having told the truth .Instead he looks like a liar and a fool .

    • Stuart Munro 11.2

      I think that Key would have to work a lot harder to rate mediocre – and the constant lying is inexcusable. Dishonesty is a sackable offence for any employee and Key is the most dishonest PM we’ve ever had.

  11. AB 12

    Bah Humbug,
    There’s been another version of KDS around for years but nobody dared name it – ‘Key Devotion Syndrome’ – and Paddy Gower has been one of the more seriously afflicted.
    Describing it as ‘hate’ is also a form of spin that suggests derangement and instability. A much better word is ‘loathing’ – a word that allows for the possibility that the thing loathed is actually loathsome.
    Why do soft-leftish commentators like Bryce get trapped into talking inside the hard-right framing of people like Hooton?

    • Pasupial 12.1

      “Key Devotion Syndrome” is a nice take on the KDS meme. But for me it has always been; Key Bafflement Syndrome. People say he’s charming and a down to earth everyman, but I’ve never been able to see it. It’s like calling Donald Drumpf charismatic, when what his possesses is more akin to what the late Terry Pratchett termed; charisntma.

      Key has perplexed me ever since I first saw him on the TV – when he was finance spokesman for Brash’s Nats; saying that taxcuts wouldn’t be paid for by increasing borrowing, but instead paid out of operating expenses, and that operating expenses would be paid for by increasing borrowing [I can’t find a transcript but that was the gist]. It seemed impossible to take the charlatan seriously. But here we are in his third term as PM, and his smoke and mirrors approach to policy seems remain effective to many.

  12. tinfoilhat 13

    Yes people have always hated politicians and those at the more extreme activist edge have always been most extreme in their hatred/sycophancy, so there’s nothing special about Key

    I believe anyone with a modicum of objectivity would also accept that there has been just as much “Key Derangement Syndrome” as there was “Clark Derangement Syndrome” during Helen’s time as PM.

  13. Ad 14

    Note from business to John Key:

  14. The lost sheep 15

    “tend to have an irrational hatred of John Key that is out of line with reality and with the wider public. …..sufferers of KDS are hamstrung by their hatred of Key as their lack of perspective undermines their effectiveness as an opposition.”

    In the 9 most recent posts on TS frontpage…
    Direct comments about JK / comments directly relating to those 74.
    Generic comments about NATS / comments directly relating to those More than 74.
    Direct comments about Leaders of LAB/Greens 0.
    Direct comments about NZ LW Political Parties 11. (9 of which were critical).

    Read quote at top of this comment again….

    • Pasupial 15.1

      This breaking news just in from the lost sheep:

      Commenters on a political blog pays more attention to the government of the day than to opposition parties (in a very selective sample of posts).

      • The lost sheep 15.1.1

        No problem with ‘more’ Parsupial, but that is not the proposition the post raises.
        Whether or not it is an ‘Obsession’ is the question raised.
        The state of being obsessed with someone or something.
        An idea or thought that continually preoccupies or intrudes on a persons mind.

        74 to 0, and 150+ to 11. That’s ‘not more’. That’s almost total preoccupation. And it’s not random, I happily wager that any more scientific analysis would show that as a consistent trend on TS.

        • ankerawshark

          LOst Sheep, Commenting on a blog post takes a few minutes.

          Most of my day is spent doing enjoyable and useful things (such as helping others). When that is the case, I am not thinking about JK, promise. I do like to read The Standard though, because although my life is good, I want to stay in touch with what is happening to NZ on a political level. I don’t like what a read and hear about it.

          In order to determine whether anyone who comments on the Standard is obsessed with hating John Key, you would have to interview them about how much time they thought about him.

          • The lost sheep

            true. But on the hard evidence, when people are on TS, they are very significantly preoccupied with JK and The Nats.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              That’s right, we should just ignore the vandals in the room, smashing the furniture, flogging the valuables, and killing people 🙄

              • The lost sheep

                It’s a subtle point OAB, but there is a slight difference between ‘ignoring’ something and being ‘obsessed’ by it.

                Going too far either way is unhealthy, and there is no question that on this blog at least, there is a massive bias towards an unhealthy preoccupation with JK and the Nats, and far too little time spent on positive discussion of LW alternatives.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  There is no question that is what you believe, nor that so far as you are concerned, everything will point to you being right. That’s why your comments invite so much ridicule.

                  • The lost sheep

                    You have said you “have no interest in engaging in another of the Lost Sheep’s feeble mendacity-fests” OAB.
                    So when will you actually stop doing so?
                    Resist the flame. Close your eyes to the light. Be strong. Make me very happy.

            • ankerawshark

              The lost sheep. Yes when people are on the Standard they are “pre-occupied with JK and the Nats”…………………well yes. Its a political blog.

              That would be like say when people are on the black caps blog (if one exists) they are significantly pre-occupied with Brendon McCullun and the Black Caps.

              Opps, better sign off I am off to a concert tonight…………John Key and the Dildos! Ha, just kidding nothing to do with Key and politics…………………………

  15. Rodel 16

    Well done Mr Hooten. Achieved one of his KPI’s and got people debating KDS and using the ‘Key word’ a lot.
    LDS – (read ‘Little’ or ‘Left’)- is just as prevalent as CDS was among Tories.

    • Gristle 16.1

      KDS and blaming the failure of the tea towel being adopted are a strategic response by National to falling voting support for itself. There is a consistent approach of trying belittle genuine concerns and trivialise opposition. Aligning reduced polling support for Key as preferred PM and the non-support of the replacement flag as being un-National is an attempt to shore up internal National voter support.

      Last week a dairy support farmer up the valley opened his gates and walked off the farm. How many more times does this occur before ripples of concern turn into waves of discontent amongst heartland National supporters?

      Yesterday Key said that National’s polling showed support for the old flag was in the 40% range (less than 50%) but sounded evasive in his answer. This figure is at odds with polling done by others who actually publish the results. (Of course there is a more nuanced answer where Key could be correct, one were the question was along the lines of “would you want the existing NZ flag if you could choose an alternate flag.” That is, if this wasn’t a bake off between tea towel and butchers apron, would you want a different unspecified flag? A. Yes 50+%.

      The bake off A:B question is getting 60% to 70% support for the status quo. So how is that the KDS can create this level of anti National support but a Green/Labour/NZF grouping only gets 48%?

      Look there’s a panda.

      • RedBaronCV 16.1.1

        I’m very sorry to hear that one of your neighbours had to walk off the farm. Not an end that anyone needs.

  16. Observer (Tokoroa) 17

    TO : OVID
    Your article is right on target. No normal adult person in New Zealand can deny the dismal outcomes that have gushed like so much putrid liquefaction out of Key’s and English’ office during the past 7 years.

    The two of them have been utter failures. The worst of their stupidity has been to make sure that the greater population of our once thriving Nation, will never own property. Slaves to Key’s and English’ wealthy friends and absent foreigners. Our population overwhelmingly under the boot of ugly Dickensian land lords.

    John Key’s favourite project, is the illegitimate expansion of his preferred gambling den. Key has embarrassing tendencies towards low life. The boos will hang around him for a long time.

    We must stop naming the likes of Hoskings and Hootons as worthy political columnists. They have shown themselves not capable of analysing bad policy. They are merely acne splattered teenagers who have never grown up.

    They are political “Denialists”.

    • Anne 17.1

      They are merely acne splattered teenagers who have never grown up .…who support acne splattered teenagers who have never grown up.

  17. Draco T Bastard 18

    Pretty brazen really, from the crew who ran an active and very personal hate campaign against Helen Clark.

    But exactly what you’d expect from the type of people who run such hate campaigns.

  18. dv 19

    Damn I thought it meant Key was deranged

  19. Hami Shearlie 20

    Key’s “everything is rosy” speeches are not what the IMF is saying right now! Maybe it is Key who is deranged?

  20. weka 21

    “Matthew Hooton has a theory”

    No, Bryce, it’s not a theory. It’s a carefully constructed meme that Hooton is using to manipulate public discourse to favour Key and National. Well done for lending that some credibility via your power in the MSM.

    I’d suggest that on the left we need to be very careful about not validating Hooton’s meme by reacting against it or trying to defend ourselves. Let’s just name it for the outright lie that it is.

    • AB 21.1

      Bang on. Should be “Matthew Hooton has a clever and self-serving line he’s running”.
      Why Bryce, why?

    • aerobubble 21.2

      I have not listen to ntn politics for some time now because of Hootens inability. Its supposed to analysis instead Hooten contrives some nonsense that requires refutation, most here on Thestandard blog. Please do yourself and this blog and just make stuff up about what he said, his take is, if you can’t hold yourself back and have to listen. NTN should find time to have real political analysus from those not invested, even earning a living close to the govt. As all that’ll we get is super spin on the spun gvt is putting out, hardly informative just more distractive padding.

      • weka 21.2.1

        Yes, and RNZ’s inability to see Hooton as inappropriate is a concern, because it’s part of the greater malaise in NZ around ethics and boundaries.

        OAB mentions Stockholm Syndrome below too.

        • weston

          rnz seems more consumed by its white guilt response to willie jacksons demands than conccerned about nationals dirty politics .

          • weka

            What’s willie Jackson done?

          • aerobubble

            Children of gangs are being abused. Sure by their gang parents neglect, or outright abuse. Its a crime to setup a child for poorer outcomes. Govt has finally realized this, started listening to the hate speach directed at the great leader, or to those outside the gulag of Hootens head commonly called the loyal opposition doing its job of holding Key to the radiator of ridicule. Oh, how precious Key is, that Hooten must come to protect this poor incapable victim of a hate cult that is modern politics. Or we could just read properly what current angst the nats are in, that even policies that point out to abusers that their mind set is harmful to their kids, or their voters, or their listeners is the real problem, must be stamped out Key detractors as hate toward the great leader. Just as Hootens hate of democracy leads him to simpify economics to the supine belief that all we are rational people, or Jacksons acknowledgement that his self-selecting belief in the inviolability of non-racism in his own stance justifies a basis for an argument against racism, for only those without racism can us racism to crush racism. oh joy.

            How to get change, point out to Conservatives that it’ll cost them tax cuts.

    • Anne 21.3

      Hey weka, You live in Dunedin. So does Bryce Edwards. How about you email him your comment @ 21. These right wing (or fence sitting) “celebrity” media commentators continue to misrepresent the responses of the likes of the Hooton claims and counter claims as if they are based on rational thinking when Edwards knows full well they’re nothing but subtle – and sometimes not so subtle – lies and spin. Sock it to him weka. Better coming from a local. 👿

      • weka 21.3.1

        I quite agree about the local angle. I don’t live in Dunners, but there are a few here who do, so let’s pass the task on to them 😈

        Is Edwards right wing? I’m never sure.

        I have wondered if a concerted letter writing campaign (that old fashioned term) would be useful for a number of media problems (esp RNZ).

        • Anne

          Sorry. Don’t know where I got the idea you lived in Dunedin.

          • weka

            No worries Anne.

          • maui

            It was a good guess, I get the feeling about half the Standard commenters are from there!

            • Anne

              I get the feeling about half the Standard commenters are from there!

              Nah, its just they’re a very vocal bunch. 😉 Something to do with the Scottish blood maybe. Ever tried to get a word in edgewise when talking with a bunch of Scotties?

        • North

          Edwards seems to have nothing more about him than parroting what is said by others……without analysis or mature judgment. Seems to happen to them all when they achieve a ‘profile’. Like the other Edwards. More concerned about being besties with Tory crone Boag and wanking on about his personal real estate deals.

        • Stuart Munro

          He’s not – but he got monstered by the other Herald… columnists… after he wrote a few opinion pieces so now he just plates up surveys of the opinion field.

  21. One Anonymous Bloke 22

    It’s inevitable: the longer Key remains as PM, the more disgust his actions and policies will generate, as more and more people’s lives are destroyed.

  22. The lost sheep 23

    The NZ Left doesn’t have the positive ideas or Leaders of it’s own to feed and sustain an alternative narrative, so it’s natural that most of the LW attention span has fallen onto the other sides game. Much easier just to hate the opposition than to go through the painful process of questioning your own game.
    And as all those years of focus on JK has lead to absolutely no progress at all towards LW Government, it’s understandable that frustration is setting in, and some sections of the LW are becoming bitter and twisted.
    And it’s understandable that there are those of you who think that the next ‘justified’ step is even more focus and overt hatred….and so throwing dildo’s is a sensible response.

    Only small issue i would raise is that, in terms of advancing the LW cause, that is all stupidity of the highest order.
    Simple concept 1. The LW needs to win back some of the center in order to be in a genuine position to implement LW policies.
    Simple concept 2. Making it all about National sends a message it is all about National. You are granting them the position of dominance.
    Simple concept 3. Hatred turns people off.
    Simple concept 4. Positivity attracts people.
    Simple concept 5. If you tried something repeatedly and it hasn’t worked, you try something new.

    Simple ‘something new’. Form a bright new vision, articulate it clearly, put on the smiley faces, and get out there and convince the people it will make their lives better. Make the conversation a happy, vibrant discourse that is all about the LW. Relegate JK to irrelevance. Make the LW the place the people want to be. Simple.

    • BM 23.1

      The left don’t have the skills, money or the people to do what you propose.

      Sadly, attacking Key is all they’ve got.

      • weka 23.1.1

        Bot is getting boring.

      • North 23.1.2

        C’mon BM…….you can smell it and you’re shitting cos it’s gonna make you look such a mug and not the master of the universe you fancy yourself.

    • red-blooded 23.2

      Nobody here is arguing that the left should ONLY criticise. Of course we also need to form a positive vision and a coherent set of policies. Of course we need to communicate these. People (like me) who belong to political parties already involve ourselves in policy work. We constantly review our policies and do our best to communicate them effectively.

      I agree that criticising Key on a personal level isn’t the way to win over people from the middle of the political spectrum. However, most of the criticism in leftwing circles is of the government’s policies. When it focuses on individuals, it’s mainly about their values or their competence. But some personal qualities (such as sincerity and integrity) are also significant political issues; it’s perfectly valid to criticise someone who’s showing themselves to be manipulative, or insincere.

      Sometimes the criticism on this site (and others) strays into personal abuse. Well, guess what? The same is true of rightwing sites. Personally, I focus on issues, but if someone wants to vent a bit about the people who are pandering to the powerful while ignoring the needs of so many, I don’t see it as ‘deranged’.

      • The lost sheep 23.2.1

        On this site this week anyone who came here could read a comment wishing that JK would be hit in the head by a golf ball and die.
        That is not deranged? That reflects well on the Left?

        You have a sensible attitude Red Blooded, but I really believe that the ‘hater’ side of the LW is causing immense damage to the overall perception of the Left with the essential Centrist voters..

        • Anne

          … anyone who came here could read a comment wishing that JK would be hit in the head by a golf ball and die.

          Cmon. Link to it. There’s no way the moderators would have allowed such a comment through. It would have been deleted. You’re either not telling the truth or quoting something out of context.

            • Anne

              OK, so out of context.

              …hope you get hit by a golf ball and you become a complete vegetable so that I dont have to waste anymore of my good sense having to listen or see any more of your BS.

              A ‘wish’ one makes out of frustration or humour. Easy to distinguish from the real thing unless you’re stupid. I knew someone who would run off to the ‘authorities’ reporting people for sins that never were. Caused a mass of trouble.

              • tinfoilhat

                How is it out of context Anne ?

                I and a number of other people commented at the time that such comments reflect poorly on those making them. They reflect just as poorly on those who turn a blind eye.

        • Stuart Munro

          Pfft – people freely discuss the premature demise of those they dislike – not necessarily seriously.

          You need to distinguish between “Nixon should be shot” and “Let’s shoot Nixon”.

          The first won’t kill even the most deserving targets.

          • The lost sheep

            “people freely discuss the premature demise of those they dislike”

            How many elections do you plan on discussing this ‘premature’ demise Stuart?
            I’ve been listening to people like you discuss it for 3 now, and I’m just wondering when you might consider that 3 elections is not ‘premature’, and understand that ‘discussing it’ ain’t working?

    • Stuart Munro 23.3

      Don’t be silly Sheep – the memes that have kept the Gnats in power in spite of their stupendous torrent of failures include the myth that a government that survives by borrowing unprecedented amounts of money without building anything or creating any jobs is somehow marginally adequate.

      The left need to disabuse voters and commentators and tr0lls like yourself of this pleasant illusion and drag them kicking and screaming into the real world before the IMF do it to them the hard way, as they have with Greece.

      Certain treacherous and incompetent individuals must of course be punished as a deterrent to future governments that might be tempted to betray their people as Key and English and Joyce have. If an extreme right commentator like Hooten is complaining about Joyce’s corruption it must be gross, graphic, and demonstrable in a libel action.

      • The lost sheep 23.3.1

        The left need to disabuse voters and commentators and tr0lls like yourself of this pleasant illusion and drag them kicking and screaming into the real world

        Yeah, but that’s the exact thing I am pointing out hasn’t worked so far.
        So are you proposing to do more of the same thing, or do you have some different plan in mind?

        • Stuart Munro

          I don’t think it’s been done much – Gareth Hughes’ demolition of Key, though thorough, stands out because of its rarity. The Greens also refrain from invective, but Labour don’t, so they should get after JPK like Mallard on PCP on a bad hair day.

          And that’s in the sedate and mannerly drawing room world of parliament – My own preferences run to something a little more colourful – Perhaps Leonardo DeCaprio’s colleague is available.

          We are a vibrant and diverse society – so glitter bombs from the glitterati – animal byproducts from foreclosed dairy farmers, burning couches from Dunedin students – every sector has something unique to contribute.

          We celebrate our nationhood by uniting against the common enemy.

  23. ‘KDS’, according to Hooton, is widespread on the left.

    Hooton also confesses to having endured ‘CDS’ (Clark Derangement Syndrome).

    There’s a pattern here and I think I can explain it with a new ‘theory’:

    Hooton suffers from ‘DSDS’ – Derangement Syndrome Derangement Syndrome: Having an irrational tendency to explain political views in terms of a derangement syndrome.

    In that vein I’d like to add another couple of possibilities, and reveal my own ‘DSDS’:

    Clearly Hooton also suffered from another variant of ‘CDS’ – Cunliffe Derangement Syndrome.

    And he suffered, at various times, from ‘BDS’ – Boag Derangement Syndrome.

    He has also exhibited strong signs of ‘HDS’ – as have many on the right – Hager Derangement Syndrome.

    There’s also signs he’s an acute sufferer of yet another strain: ‘GPDS’ (Green Party Derangement Syndrome).

    The list – and the silliness – just goes on and on … at least when you’re in the grip of DSDS.

    • Clark Derangement Syndrome

      Now there was a syndrome. Whenever I see someone peddling this Key Derangement Syndrome bullshit, I ask whether they mean people have started putting up billboards at their own expense comparing Key to Mugabe and other dictators.

      • Puddleglum 24.1.1

        Thanks Psycho Milt, I’d forgotten about that.

        Yes, it was a very strange time.

        I also remember being at one of those open air markets in 2008 in Christchurch and overhearing one stall-holder say, with incredible vitriol, how disgusted she was with Helen Clark because of Clark’s crooked teeth?!?!

        “Have you seen her teeth?” – she quizzed the person she was talking to – “They’re so ugly!! There’s no way I’d vote for her.” The comments were spat out with what can only be called visceral hatred.

        While it was entirely irrational vitriol I suspect it found its release because of the clever but cruel rhetoric put out by right wingers about Clark having her picture on billboards airbrushed to hide her supposedly imperfect teeth. Apparently some further evidence of how deceptive she was.

      • Sacha 24.1.2

        “at their own expense”

        well, funded by their clients, ultimately 🙂

    • miravox 24.2

      If there is any difference between how people feel about the current PM and ones before, it’s not the anger of those who want him gone – that’s always a problem for the incumbent – left or right (ask Helen Clark).

      Shipley, as an example of a PM i dislike just as much, didn’t have people who loved her as much as Key has. People were more open to acknowledging her faults as a person and as leader of the country.

      The derangement syndrome is the cult of Key, imo.

    • ropata 24.3

      How the fuck can they print this crap about Key Derangement Syndrome then pretend to be above the debate… is DPF giving the editor tips?

      The Dirty Politics machine is gearing up for another year of slander and lies.

      • Sacha 24.3.1

        Farrar might well be giving them some tongue action beneath the table – who knows? It’s all just dirty politics and his crew maintains everyone does it.

  24. ropata 25

    KDS is a transparent ad hominem attack on government critic and anyone using the phrase is engaging in a dishonest smear campaign. That a major NZ paper thinks it has any credibility and publishes this uncritical shite, shows that actual jouralism is almost dead in NZ

    • Draco T Bastard 25.1


      • ropata 25.1.1

        Calling govt critics “deranged” is a pathetic response and shows that the right cannot defend their hero.

        And the MSM treats this dishonest rhetoric seriously. How crap they are.

        • weka

          +1 to both comments. Hooton will do Hooton things. But the MSM really shouldn’t.

        • Sacha

          “But the MSM really shouldn’t.”

          Most of NZ’s remaining editors and producers and publishers are rank embarrassments. #hacks

          • ropata

            dirty politics was a clear message that the “news” in this country is an #epicfail, and nothing has changed since 2014.

            lack of experience, lack of critical reasoning skills, lack of education in social sciences to be able to analyze the bullshit narratives of wealth and power (and susceptible to being seduced by its glamour)

            here’s Glenn Greenwald having a crack at the NYT:

            what journalistic value is provided by agreeing to conceal parts of the interview with a presidential candidate from the public? Doing so virtually ensures that the journalists become the candidate’s collaborator in deceiving the public. How is that journalistically justified..?

            same applies here

    • AB 25.2

      In the old Soviet Union dissent was sometimes ‘diagnosed’ as mental illness.
      So Hooton has excellent (and not dissimilar) antecedents for this nasty little exercise.

  25. Richard Christie 26

    That’s the way, suck harder, Patsy Gower, Johnny doesn’t want you to stop yet.

    (btw Gower’s jonolism career will be history when the tide turns)

  26. Whispering Kate 27

    Quite agree McFlock, in reply to 4.2 when a person is not well enough to work and is on a Job Seeker’s benefit and struggling from hand to mouth each week I can understand their hatred of our “no name” leader. When they have to get a Food Grant every so often just to buy cleaners for their kitchen bathroom in their humble abode and toiletries like essentials deodorant and sanitary pads because the basic benefit they get just doesn’t stretch that far after rent and utilities etc then I say its pain too far. When one has to give up eating meat and becomes a vegetarian for lack of money and tries every way which way to survive – then that is when hatred is bred and thrives. This government are a pack of tossers and hopefully we will see the light of day and boot them out soon. Too many good and honest people who through no fault of their own are suffering – jobless and ill people alike. Bring on the revolution I say.

    • cogito 27.1

      “Bring on the revolution I say.”

      We could start by building a great big high wall in front of a certain Parnell mansion, and make the incumbent pay for it.

  27. Smilin 28

    Just a little thing about Key and his BS
    He could fire 100 people in a day personally and have no remorse
    Just imagine if he had AK47 – PSYCHOPATHE There isnt any difference

  28. North 29

    Ultimately you can’t polish a turd. Repeated ponytail assault, pissing in the shower, “munter”, “I love you Richie…..”, murder/child rape oh so funny, intended rape a minor thing, gargoyle-faced urgings to “Gair Sarrmm Garts !” – nah, ultimately it’s all too much. This is not prime minister stuff. The little man-child’s on his way out. And that’s without the wooden gauchness. The desperation in the idolators is palpable.

  29. Incognito 30

    When ‘theorising’ about polarisation it is obvious that each story has two sides. Clearly many on the right suffer from Key Infatuation Syndrome (KIS).

    It is particularly strong among political editors and people writing for the NZ Herald.

    Hatred and infatuation are mental states often associated with rather immature individuals. In other words: grow up!

    BTW, Hooton is an old spinster.

  30. Lloyd 31

    How about worrying why we have an abnormal government, when the normal situation in New Zealand is a government with a socialist core. Normal and centre in New Zealand is left wing to the rest of the world.

    FJK isn’t centre=right. He’s right and wrong at the same time.

  31. RRM 32

    LOL – say what you like.. you lot were demonizing Key for no real reason before he even made PM and you know it.

    (You can’t trust John Key, he’s a rich prick / jew / banker / lizard person… no I haven’t got a study to back that up, I don’t need one, you can tell just by looking at him.)

    • One Anonymous Bloke 32.1

      You can’t trust him, fool, because he tells so many lies. Tranzrail, for example: how many shares was it?

    • Gabby 32.2

      You didn’t do that billboard tampering did you?

    • Draco T Bastard 32.3

      We’ve always had reason to distrust him. Started with his back-stab of Don Brash and went downhill from there with all his lying.

      And, yeah, considering the research that indicates that bankers show more psychopathic traits than the rapists and murderers in our jails that’s probably a good reason to mistrust him as well.

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