Key doesn’t like being shown up by Little

Written By: - Date published: 7:03 am, November 24th, 2015 - 130 comments
Categories: Andrew Little, australian politics, john key, leadership - Tags: , , ,

Good to see Andrew Little taking some action on this issue:

Andrew Little to speak out on treatment of Kiwi expats in Australia visit

Labour leader Andrew Little hopes a visit to Australia will “shake the tree” on the country’s treatment of Kiwi expats who are denied access to government services.

Little will speak to the Australian parliament’s foreign affairs, defence and trade committee, as well as its migration committee, on Wednesday about the rules for New Zealanders who move to Australia.

In 2001, the Australian government removed New Zealanders’ rights to permanent residency, instead granting them special visas allowing them to live and work there indefinitely but denying them access to a range of benefits they could previously apply for.

Little said he had raised the issue with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull some time ago, saying it was unfair to tax Kiwis but then deny them access to the services they were helping to pay for. …

Key’s response yesterday was pretty desperate:

PM hits out at Andrew Little’s lobbying trip

The Prime Minister has hit out at Labour leader Andrew Little’s trip to Canberra to lobby for expat Kiwi’s rights – claiming the visit could jeopardise progress being made through quiet diplomacy. …

This “quiet diplomacy”, according to the article, has been going on since 2001 and has yet to bear fruit. I think it’s time to conclude that that tree is dead Jim. Good on Andrew Little for shaking this up and giving the issue some renewed publicity.

To suggest that this could somehow “make things worse” is to suggest that Australia would be motivated to new punitive acts against Kiwis – which requires a pretty low opinion of Australian diplomacy.

But Labour says John Key has only talked about improving Kiwis’ pathway to Australian citizenship after it raised the issue with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, and arranged Mr Little’s Canberra visit.

“The issues are not new – John Key has been Prime Minister for seven years with no progress having been made. Progress really only seems to have been made since I started talking about the issues, including with Malcolm Turnbull on his recent visit, and when this trip was arranged.”

Key just doesn’t like being shown up by Little. His government has had Seven Long Years (and so on and so forth)…


Extra irony points, Key is claiming that Little could make things worse as he himself heads off to the Paris climate talks where he is going to make things worse.

130 comments on “Key doesn’t like being shown up by Little”

  1. mickysavage 1

    Notice both main papers lead the story by repeating Key’s claim that Little’s trip will be counterproductive, not news of the trip itself. The MSM is becoming a pale repeater of Key’s pronouncements. Makes you wonder how different it would be in North Korea …

    • aerobubble 1.1

      Remembering that its the media whose job it is to keep them honest. Having stacked the talking heads with rightests was it any wonder that the govt was rushing at the eleventh hour to put in legislation as Conair descended. Then the govt was assured that the spin would get the correct placement and imbalance, as even the media chimed in and blamed parliament for not keeping themselves honest and uptodate.
      The nice Ms Clark was not wrong, Australia went feral on kiwis, dishonestly taxing them without providing basic services. The rot hit the pinnacle of farce when Abbott marched professional crimes into lecturing roles on Christmas Island, requiring he quickly depart by gifting a knighthood to a prince. Criminals have been reject by nation states since the beginning, so the idea that we weren’t ready stacks up as more neolib governing logic, cut and burn regulation. Now the nz neolib, Key, are up against the free market Aussie neolibs that believe wholesale witch hunts does the economy a favor, it does not. As any reciprocal war on crims will only magnify the harm to both economies, as repeat offenders are best helped back into their community and innocents whose lives are laid waste caught by these new measures create huge stress for all, as everyone starts worrying about living aboard and the new upside risks of an unfriendly powerful person willing to stir. So in this way Key has been forced into blather, as he can’t dive into a outright diplomatic stouch, as the business lobby were expats and whose kids are expats are all to aware of the cost and mess such bad policies create, i.e when a hard working associate has to up and return home because a relative, spouse, has been rejected a visa.

    • Stuart Munro 1.2

      We’re on the same track, but NK news stories about problem people – refuseniks and countries like the US tend to end with stock lines like “shall suffer death” and “must be annihilated” according to a friend who interned at a North Korea institute.

  2. One Anonymous Bloke 2

    If Little gets any traction the headline will be “Key welcomes Australian initiative”. Or how about “Key diplomacy victory”.

    • Magisterium 2.1

      He won’t get any traction.

      NZ talking to Australia about how NZ is unhappy with Australia having harsh immigration policies is like NZ talking to the USA about how NZ is unhappy with the USA having nuclear weapons.

      The outcome will be the same. Polite nodding while the talk is going on, and then guffaws of laughter and comments of “who was that fucking nut?” behind closed doors.

  3. Vaughan Little 3

    does anyone who’s lived in Aussie have any insight into why it has such a meathead problem?

    • Anno1701 3.1

      i have friends who are returning to NZ in case they change the laws again, scoop them up and deport them to some camp

      They tell me a lot of Kiwis living in Aus arent feeling very comfortable right now

      • Manuka AOR 3.1.1

        “in case they change the laws again, scoop them up and deport them to some camp”

        I don’t know if they need to change any more laws for that to happen – for just about anyone to be locked up without a moment’s warning. The case of Ko Rutene would seem to demonstrate that.

        • aerobubble 3.1.1.1

          An ex-soldier alledgely upskilling gangs would be a reasonable character flaw, what’s worse is they would have no means to clear their name, the innuendo etc.
          That’s why the Aussie law is so draconian, it removes the courts from the process and makes the political minister the judge jury executive. Its so completely wrong no wonder Abbott t kicked out.

          But then this level of creepy creeping fascism exists here too. Take the under payingment of benefits, this is effectively a tax, YES! The government reach back and seized wealth retrogressively. Remember first they can for the Jews, then the socialists, then they came for the priests. The past is the past, Key has now opened the way to grabbing wealth anytime, justified because they dud not mean the law to read the legal way.

          • Tracey 3.1.1.1.1

            And the proposed removal of the court as an independent arbiter of ACC declines… given about 47% of ACC decisions are overruled by the court

    • Expat 3.2

      All the changes towards Kiwi’s in Aus have been carried out by stupid right wing nut pollies, stupid punitive policies, you can blame John “peanut” Howard” and of course the stupid one, Tony “fuckwit” Abbott.

      Globally, right wingnut govt’s have completely screwed up, NZ is no different.

  4. vto 4

    Yep, Little is most definitely showing up Key – exposing Key’s failures.

    Little should find some other issues like this and do same thing.

    Good stuff

  5. Manuka AOR 5

    It is the Kiwis being held in detention centres (internment camps?) that need addressing most urgently. They are NOT there “doing time” — they have either served their sentences and should now be free, or they may have committed no crime whatsoever – (ref: Ko Rutene).

    There is something shockingly wrong about this round-up, sometimes at night by special armed forces, of people who would otherwise be free. There is also something shockingly wrong about the ease with which we all can put this out of our minds, even when those locked up without warning are our own fellow citizens.

  6. Ad 6

    This is such an excellent move by Little, and Goff.

    The rich joy of seeing the Prime Minster’s diplomatic weakness being shown up is just neat.

    Looking forward to it.

    • Chooky 6.1

      +100…Go Andrew Little!

      …Labour should be stalking all jonkey’s weaknesses ….and showing him up as the most corrupt political leader New Zealand has ever had

      The sooner Jonkey with his FALSE FLAGS and his Banana Republic dreams is gone the better….

      Bring on the Next Election with a Labour /NZF and Green coalition win!…and hopefully Mana/Int is part of this coalition as well

  7. esoteric pineapples 7

    Little can’t really lose by pushing this issue. Even if he fails it looks like he is trying and makes Key look like he isn’t.

    • Manuka AOR 7.1

      “Looks like” doesn’t come into it. The situation requires action. Andrew is taking action. For some reason Key seems to be unable to do so. To hide that fact he, via his muppet media parrots, have tried to re-define the situation.

    • Magisterium 7.2

      Prediction:

      “Prime Minister John Key today announced that Australia has cancelled plans to modify its immigration laws to give expat New Zealanders a path to citizenship. ‘I’m terribly disappointed,’ said the Prime Minister, ‘but it appears that years of hard work behind the scenes by our diplomatic staff have been undone by a clumsy delegation from the Labour Party. Sources tell me that the Australian government was offended by some of the language used by Mr Little and that senior diplomats considered his very presence to be inappropriate, given that he is not a representative of the NZ government.'”

      “The office of Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull did not respond to requests for comment.”

      This is a no-lose situation for John Key. Australia is never going to change anything, but now Key can say that Australia was about to and then changed its mind after Little and Goff messed it all up.

      • Puddleglum 7.2.1

        This is a no-lose situation for John Key. Australia is never going to change anything, but now Key can say that Australia was about to and then changed its mind after Little and Goff messed it all up.

        Are you suggesting that Key is likely to lie about the consequences of Little’s visit?

        • Magisterium 7.2.1.1

          Australia will do nothing to change its immigration policy because it doesn’t give a shit what NZ thinks on the issue. But now John Key doesn’t have to care about looking ineffectual, because Little will have tried and achieved nothing as well. And if there’s even the slightest hint that the Labour delegation rubbed anyone up the wrong way…. well, guess how that will get spun.

        • Stuart Munro 7.2.1.2

          The statistical confidence of Key not lying must be pretty negligible by now.

  8. Lanthanide 8

    To suggest that this could somehow “make things worse” is to suggest that Australia would be motivated to new punitive acts against Kiwis – which requires a pretty low opinion of Australian diplomacy.

    No, “make things worse” can equally be said as “we were making progress in our quiet diplomacy, and now we’ve gone and stuck our foot in it, so Australia have started to back away from previous suggestions they had been making”.

    Also I’d note that the part of the article you quoted actually says “jeopardise progress being made” which is not the same as “make things worse”.

    • galeandra 8.1

      Yes it is, if by ‘ jeopardising progress’ you remove the possibility of sometime in the future improvement.
      Too much with the obsessive pedantry.

      • shorts 8.1.1

        I read quiet diplomacy in this instance as while Key may have mentioned this in passing, like those stuck in the detention centres he has no intention to actually make a case with the Australians, rather he is only catering to domestic demand for action here – or in short its just hollow PR bluster by Key and he is now afraid this will be made known

        • Gangnam Style 8.1.1.1

          I think quiet diplomacy is when Murray Mcully sent his counterpart a txt message. Nice work if you can get it!

        • Tracey 8.1.1.2

          I took quiet diplomacy to mean we arent doing anything but you cant prove it

          • Puddleglum 8.1.1.2.1

            I think ‘quiet diplomacy’ is usually code for something like ‘Australia and New Zealand have agreed that New Zealand can claim it has said something about the issue but Australia won’t be criticised by New Zealand for not doing anything’.

  9. ianmac 9

    Some might remember that great TV confrontation/interview between Lange and the then failing PM Muldoon. Suddenly the all-powerful Muldoon looked pathetic as Lange out distanced him and won the election.
    Shades of Key – Little?

  10. Bea Brown 10

    For even more irony points, wasn’t it Phil Goff who agreed, with Helen Clark, on this policy to allow NZers into Australia on special visas but without full residency rights.
    I can remember him defending it and telling us what a good deal it was. Someone on that Australian select committee might remember that too, when he turns up with Andrew Little.
    Perhaps Phil could tell us if he got it wrong then, has changed his mind since or is just hopping on yet another bandwagon for yet another stunt that will leave most Kiwi voters cold.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1

      Is that how you remember it? You poor thing.

      • alwyn 10.1.1

        Unfortunately her memory is quite accurate. Clark and Goff, who had absolutely no power on the changes, should have told New Zealand at the time we were being screwed and that people shouldn’t move there if they intended to do so permanently unless they qualified for a permanent resident visa. If they didn’t qualify they should have been warned not to go.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.1

          Whereas I remember something different. Put up or shut up.

          the new agreement … sends a clear message to Kiwis that when you go overseas you can’t expect nanny state to accompany you where ever you go from New Zealand. You live by the host country’s rules.

          Helen Clark. She repeated the statement that “you live by the host country’s rules” several times. So much for right wing trash parroting Cameron Slater’s lies.

          • alwyn 10.1.1.1.1

            Your puting the statement in italics appears to mean it is a quotation.
            Can you please give a reference to her saying that?

            There was a very mild comment in the original press statement about the option of a permanent resident visa but it was never properly pointed out that for most people going to Australia from New Zealand that that would be impossible and that it would also not generally be possible for children to get any access to benefits, no matter how long they might live there.

            I am not saying that is impossible to find a little aside about the effect of the changes. It was never spelt out clearly though and the emphasis was always that nothing had really changed and that it was a win/win situation.

            • McFlock 10.1.1.1.1.1

              ” sends a clear message to Kiwis that when you go overseas you can’t expect nanny state to accompany you where ever you go from New Zealand. You live by the host country’s rules.”

              lol – literally one google result for that as a quote. Guess who said it.

              • alwyn

                Yes it appears ONE time in a document that appears only in the Australian Prime Ministers press conference notes. Is that even “repeated several times”?
                It is then followed with important news about a memorial in Canberra wasn’t it?
                Wow, she really did push it hard and made sure that New Zealand people going to Australia would understand it didn’t she?
                I consider my statement holds. The New Zealand Government of the time did their best not to tell people what it was that the Australian Government was doing. For that they deserve condemnation.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Which phrase did I say was repeated several times Alwyn? Reading is a skill.

                  • alwyn

                    I may be a little bit literal in my interpretation of things people say.
                    When someone says, as you do that “She repeated the statement that “you live by the host country’s rules” several times.” I expect to see that she repeated it several times.
                    The only time, at least as far as Google is concerned, that she said it was in a press conference release by the Australian PMs office.

                • alwyn

                  Further to my comment McFlock.
                  Here is the Press Release that Helen Clark issued in New Zealand about the matter. Notice the words quoted do not appear in it and a more anodyne “nothing to see. All is fine. Move on” is hard to imagine.
                  http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-social-security-agreement-australia

                • North

                  Thank you Trollwyn.

            • Tracey 10.1.1.1.1.2

              Dont shift the goalposts. First you suggested she hadnt warned them. Then when found doubted it had a source. Then not happy she didnt say it enough.

              • alwyn

                I don’t think I can fairly be accused of that.
                My first comment, at least in this time around was here. It says that Clark should have told New Zealand at the time.

                Key doesn’t like being shown up by Little


                I then said there was a very mild reference in the original press statement. Given that I am complaining about her not telling the NEW ZEALAND public about it I don’t think that a comment in an Australian PMs press conference that is then carefully omitted in what the New Zealand people were told in the press release from the New Zealand PM qualifies as telling us.

                Key doesn’t like being shown up by Little


                My whole point was that Clark and Goff did their best to cover up the fact that they had no influence on the Australian Government and let us down by not saying at the time that we were being screwed.
                Relying on a comment seen only in an Australian sourced document doesn’t cut it.
                As far as the “repeated” bit goes that was OABs claim, which he then implied that he had never said and that I couldn’t read.

                Trying to rely on a comment in an Australian PMs press conference notes to show that Helen told New Zealand what was going to happen without even putting it in her New Zealand Press release reminds me of how John Kennedy said he would announce that he was going to make his brother Attorney-General. He said he would go out on the street in the middle of the night and if there was no one in sight he would whisper “It’s Bobby”

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  It wasn’t reported enough for you? Why don’t you pretend that’s Clark’s fault then make up some more whiny bile about it?

  11. Conal 11

    Let’s be clear about the nature of the “problem”; kiwis living in Australia have had their civil rights restricted.

    Partly this is to save social welfare costs for the Australian federal government, and partly it’s a racist measure to keep out NZers of Pacific Island origins, but more generally it’s so as to make the economic position of part of the working class more precarious. If you are sacked from your job, and have no entitlement to social welfare benefits, you will have an incentive to accept a job with poor pay and conditions just to survive. Your alternative is to eat into savings, or to return to NZ. This also acts as a disincentive to joining in any trade union activity. The political enforcement of “good character” (or threat of it) has a similar role; don’t engage in civil disobedience if you don’t want to be deported.

    The attack on the rights of Australian resident NZers is therefore just good policy as far as Liberal and National politicians are concerned. It’s not a problem at all.

    • Sabine 11.1

      and bingo, we have a winner.

    • Magisterium 11.2

      The problem was also that NZ was far more lenient in its citizenship requirements than Australia, and the Australian government did not like the ease with which all those damn brown people could move to South Auckland, get easy citizenship, and then move to Australia and get special treatment by holding NZ passports.

      Cynical observers opined that those damn brown people who moved to South Auckland tended to vote Labour while they were here and so there was no way Clark’s government was going to restrict their ability to do so.

      So Howard’s government proposed a change to the visa status of immigrants from NZ in 2001, and Clark’s government agreed and signed up to it without so much as a grumpy press statement.

      The NZ Minister of Foreign Affairs at the time was a certain Phil Goff, so he is literally responsible for the current situation. The irony of him trying to get attention for arguing about it in 2015 is lost on no one.

      • Expat 11.2.1

        Yeah, Magis, It was the change made last year by Abbott that has been the point of contention, given you know about the change by Howard in 2001, so did a lot of others, but that hasn’t stopped 200,000 Kiwi’s going to Aus in the last four years, economic refugees.

        If you work in Aus, Employers pay super contributions at the rate 9.5% of your gross pay out of their pocket, as part of the super, most providers include accident and death insurance and Medicare is free, the trade off for restricted rights, is it fair? no, but the same rules apply to all non citizens.

        Arguing about what happened in 2001 is not really relevant now, as up until these recent changes occurred , no one has been making an issue of it.

        In Australia, they simply don’t care about any one else, if you look at how Abbott treated Indonesia, and subsequently lost 75% of their Beef exports to Indonesia, they didn’t care what other nations think of them, and the media will never inform the public of International condemnation of Aus.’s behaviour.

  12. Anne 12

    A further rich irony is that Phil Goff is well known to them as an internationally respected former Foreign Affairs, Trade and Defence minister – the sort who are often sought after for advice from other countries after their terms have come to an end. So, together with the leader of the main Opposition Party of their closest neighbour, the Aussie government is going to treat them with respect.

    Since they’re visit is a formal one in the sense they will be speaking to two important Australian select committees and several Australian cabinet ministers, then it makes John Key even more contemptible. He is the one making things worse by indulging in a hissy fit cos he’s scared they might have some success?

    • alwyn 12.1

      “Phil Goff is well known to them as an internationally respected former Foreign Affairs, Trade and Defence minister – the sort who are often sought after for advice from other countries after their terms have come to an end”

      Wow, where did that come from?
      Actually the people who are in this bracket are people like Ruth Richardson and Jenny Shipley. Sorry about that.

      • Justme 12.1.1

        If Phil Goff was that internationally respected and sought after, would he be chasing the Auckland mayoralty job?

        • Hanswurst 12.1.1.1

          I don’t see why not. :shrugs:

        • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.2

          If Phil Goff was that internationally respected and sought after, would he be chasing the Auckland mayoralty job?

          ?

          Mayor of a city of 1.5M, NZ’s fastest growing and most challenged, ain’t just nothing.

      • North 12.1.2

        So says The Trollwyn @ 12.1……and lo, it is true ! Don’t be sorry dear.

        You might however care to express sorrow about the wilful lies you tapped out about Kelvin Davis a week or so ago…..lies which you still haven’t had the guts to ‘fess up to.

        Sooo like your gauche idol Trollwyn !

  13. roy cartland 13

    Dare we suppose that Little is actually acting like… a Prime Minister?

    • Rodel 13.1

      “Dare we suppose that Little is actually acting like… a Prime Minister?”
      Yes but but it’s actually like … a Prime Minister should, not how our current rather embarrassing Prime Minister does..
      Little is going to be a good Prime Minister.

  14. ankerawshark 14

    Is that the sort of quiet diplomacy where you don’t hear a thing, see a thing and nothing changes?

  15. Puckish Rogue 15

    Is this another variation of the old “Key fears *insert Labour leader de jour*”

  16. srylands 16

    The response from the Australians will be to remind Little that the 2001 changes were proposed by New Zealand. Helen was the main advocate. Goff was in Cabinet at the time. Perhaps he should have a word.

    • alwyn 16.1

      Helen Clark was not the main advocate. The changes were presented as a fait accompli and there wasn’t a damn thing she could do about it. New Zealand has no way of forcing an Australian Government to do anything.

      The only thing that Clark, and Goff did wrong was to not tell the New Zealand public the truth and warn them, loudly and repeatedly, that if a New Zealand citizen moved to Australia without getting a permanent residence visa first they would never be able to get one and they would never be in a position to get Australian citizenship.
      Clark and Goff were not willing to admit they had no influence, as this simply exposed their impotence. They pretended, instead, that everything was peachy.

      Little is being very foolish, if he actually has the best interests of Australian-resident New Zealand citizens in mind, by going on about this in a public forum in Australia. He can only damage their prospects by making it look as if the Australian Government might give in to New Zealand pressure. The only way we might get some improvement is if we do it quietly.
      No Australian politician has ever been damaged by kicking New Zealanders. The average Australian simply does not like people from this country. I know. I worked there from 1989 to 1995 and I finally came home because I simply couldn’t put up with the ignorant a**h***s any longer.

      • Leftie 16.1.1

        @alwyn
        In many respects you have to blame the New Zealand media for not reporting on it like they should have.

        Disagree with you about Little being foolish, I think it is a very good move on his part.

        • alwyn 16.1.1.1

          It may be a good move on Little’s part, if he is only doing it for the advancement of Andrew Little. If he claims to be doing it for the betterment of New Zealand citizens living in Australia it is not. There are only downsides to that.

          If he sounds off, in public that Australia is being mean to NZ it may raise his profile here. It will however make it harder for Australia to ease up on the rules.
          Of course if they don’t change the policy Little will probably claim it is because Key didn’t follow little Andy’s lead.

          As I say. It might be good for his personal prospects but it certainly isn’t for New Zealand.
          I fear he doesn’t care about that though.

          • Leftie 16.1.1.1.1

            @alwyn
            I think your opinions of Andrew Little are completely wrong. I think Andrew Little cares very much about New Zealand and New Zealanders, one cannot say the same about John key.

          • Simple Simon 16.1.1.1.2

            Your view makes Little sound like J Key.

          • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.1.3

            The only thing that Clark, and Goff did wrong was to not tell the New Zealand public the truth and warn them, loudly and repeatedly

            Having a tonne of NZers migrate over to Australia reduced NZ’s unemployment statistics and reduced NZ’s social welfare bill. Clark and Cullen would have been quite fine with that outcome.

        • Nessalt 16.1.1.2

          16 comment chains in before someone blamed the media for this. new record for the standard.

          For the amount people complain about the media, how much they hate it, how they never watch it, everyone sure seems to know exactly what the media do and don’t do.

      • Rodel 16.1.2

        From 16.1….” The average Australian simply does not like people from this country. I know. I worked there from 1989 to 1995…..”

        hmmm…. what does that say?

        • alwyn 16.1.2.1

          Very funny. However do you have anything useful to offer?

          • aerobubble 16.1.2.1.1

            Average Aussies aren’t thugs. The policy dervives from institutional racism, against first Australians and pacific peoples. Did you jnow apartheid existed in Queensland long before S.Africa introduced it. Howards legacy is of growing racism, not saying sorry, the riots, the immigration policy, all a product of a voting system that elects the mediocre, and leads to the inevitable harm to the Australia economy by raising cost risks on every foreign worker there. Its astonishing the silience of the business lobby, this undermines trans Tasman trade in magnifying ways.

    • Leftie 16.2

      Are you forgetting the very harsh stance the Howard government took against New Zealand? You should be thanking Helen Clark, she kept access for Kiwis to Australia open. Given that an unprecedented number of kiwis have fled to Australia in the last 7 years, bet the key National government are very happy about that.

      • alwyn 16.2.1

        Well New Zealand people who went to Australia are coming back. Did you notice that more people moved from Australia to New Zealand in the year to October 31 than went the other way?
        Perhaps you would like to justify your claim about unprecedented numbers going the other way in the light of that comment.
        John Key said he wanted to get New Zealand people staying here rather than going to Oz. He certainly seems to have achieved that doesn’t he? No wonder the Labour Party have gone so quiet on the subject.

        • Leftie 16.2.1.1

          @alwyn
          “New Zealand people who went to Australia are coming back.”

          So the spin says, but they never offer up the actual figures like they try to do with other nationalities. It’s been well documented in the news over the years since National came to power on the exodus of Kiwis to Australia etc.

          John key failed, and he has failed us and our country. He must of broken every promise he ever made.

          Have to say “New Zealand people ” was a funny way for you to refer to New Zealanders.

          • alwyn 16.2.1.1.1

            Gee. The man/woman doesn’t like the way I express myself.
            Am I allowed to comment on the strange wording you use when you say “He must of broken “. What does “must of” mean? Can I also suggest that using a lower case “k” when spelling a surname is “funny”?

            • Chris 16.2.1.1.1.1

              The guy’s gold.

            • Leftie 16.2.1.1.1.2

              Gosh alwyn, you’re touchy.
              Lower case k was just a type error, nothing to be made a fuss over. John Key (look K is in uppercase), must of broken every promise he made, is clear in it’s meaning, and one wouldn’t have thought it needed an explanation. John Key doesn’t have a good track record when it comes to keeping his word, does he?

            • North 16.2.1.1.1.3

              Oh ! It’s “Professor” Trollwyn now is it ? Like rewriting history to say that Richardson the Mad Farm Girl from Selwyn was Minister of Foreign Affairs. And Shipley (Don’t Mention The Lawsuit!) too apparently. Right you are Trollwyn !

              • alwyn

                You presumably have some reason for the “professor” crack?
                I never claimed by the way that Richardson or Shipley was a Minister of Foreign Affairs. I merely identified them as former Ministers who were in demand to provide advice to foreign Governments.
                They were in demand. Goff can merely dream about it.
                Still you have never showed a great deal of understanding have you?

        • Chris 16.2.1.2

          “No wonder the Labour Party have gone so quiet on the subject.”

          Probably don’t understand it.

  17. savenz 17

    +100 Good on Andrew Little!

    Great comment

    “Extra irony points, Key is claiming that Little could make things worse as he himself heads off to the Paris climate talks where he is going to make things worse”

    • savenz 17.1

      Speaking of John Key off to Paris for ‘climate change’ quote below from Greenpeace…

      “The ship we’re on is the NIWA research boat Tangaroa which has recently been refitted for oil and gas exploration at a cost of 24 million to the tax-payer. Now on the eve of the Paris climate talks, it has been searching for deep sea oil reserves off the East Coast of the North Island on behalf of Statoil and Chevron! It’s just madness.

      We’re taking action to highlight how crazy it is that our Government is seeking new oil reserves at a time when the climate is in crisis. Finding new oil to burn is the exact opposite of what needs to happen.”

      Yep our PM who is violently opposed to measures to curb climate change is actually trying to make it worse by giving 24 million of our taxpayer money to his oil mates for oil exploration in NZ while he wastes air miles and tax payer dollars on his Paris junket which will really be about networking for his IDU and promising more NZ troops to bomb the middle East and decrease security and increase climate change and terror attacks.

      While as we go into Christmas, we have Kiwis imprisoned on Christmas Island for no reason which our PM ignores

      And the loss of Kiwi benefits in OZ which Key ignores for 7 years.

      So yep, Good on Andrew Little.

  18. Smilin 18

    Lets face it Key is a control freak like sid holland, even Muldoon wasnt that bad some of the time
    And Key an extreme egoist- no one knows better than him in his own mind but its not about him its about what our democracy requires to represent us to our best ability on climate change
    Key is not a climatologist hes a money grubbing prick and the only relationship he has to the climate is that himself and his dense devotes think the sunshines out of his ah ha

  19. As an expat in Australia and having lived here for around two decades now, I find the manner in which we are regarded and treated as totally out of order. I would love take up dual citizenship and find the process daunting and considering our close political and geographical ties, this should be an easy step, as long as we meet the customs and police checks. What is wrong with the Australian politicians ? why are we treated so unfairly ? Kiwi’s add value to this economy and environment and participate in every aspect of the Australian way, we embrace their culture, cause very little issues and yet we are second class citizens, forgive me for asking, but what exactly is the problem ?

  20. Smilin 20

    “The issues are not new – John Key has been Prime Minister for seven years with no progress having been made. Progress really only seems to have been made since I started talking about the issues, including with Malcolm Turnbull on his recent visit, and when this trip was arranged.”

    This I feel is a profound statement in relation to the opposition hold the govt to account on all issues

    Get in there when Key thinks he has dealt with the issue and stirr it up
    Key is not the only authority on NZ foreign relations
    Every MP has the right at anytime to address any issue that concerns NZ at the same level as the PM
    PARTY POLITICS are not democracy

    • Magisterium 20.1

      “Progress really only seems to have been made since I started talking about the issues”

      The staggering arrogance of this statement.

      What progress? Did the Australian Immigration Act get changed while I wasn’t paying attention?

    • Tracey 20.2

      Key said it was being fixed in february when he and abbott met. It is always “nearly” done.

      • Magisterium 20.2.1

        So what? Little says that progress has been made, and I want to know what that progress is.

  21. Skinny 21

    Smart move by Little, his actions will reap rewards for Labour come the next election. Add record numbers of Kiwi’s returning home and seeing the slave wage economy under Key and I’d say the Tories will wear the backlash at the polls.

  22. Kyra 22

    It is not for those who can find work, no matter how poorly paid, nor those in detention centres that these changes need to be made. It is for the vulnerable at risk of living on the streets because they are trapped in Australia that change will help most.

    The parent who finally makes a stand against domestic violence and gets their kids out of that situation. They are left without financial aid and unable to leave the country because the other parent holds the power of the Hague Convention and can drag the children back into that awful situation they have just escaped.

    The single parent struggling to find work as they have small children and the costs of childcare are prohibitive.

    The families with children whom have a disability requiring care, therapies, specialist treatment – the national disability insurance scheme is not available to Kiwis yet compulsory to pay into.

    The Kiwi who injures themselves at work or is diagnosed with a serious illness. They cannot just allow themselves to heal or receive treatment – they must continue working to survive.

    I’m a struggling single Mum of three in Australia to whom a hand up would be helpful. I spend a lot of my time helping those who are homeless and those who are also struggling. The need for these laws to be changed is great. I live very frugally knowing that one unexpected bill could see us living rough. I have plans in place with my children’s schools for showering etc as it is that much of a reality. Under the current laws, it is a case of when, not if.

    These are the people who seem to have gone unnoticed by the media yet are in the greatest need. A small hand up is all we ask. We’re proud Kiwis – hard working, strong, resourceful … we only need short term support until we get on our feet.

    I truly hope this reality will be presented and questioned.

  23. Detrie 23

    We are not alone in this stance. i.e. http://bit.ly/badauzzies

  24. Manuka AOR 24

    Earlier today the news release was “Specific individuals are planning a terrorist attack in nz right now” (in effect). Key has been called out on this: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/74337359/john-key-scaremongering-kiwis-with-details-of-security-threats-andrew-little
    We do have an Opposition party. Finally. We really do.

    • The Chairman 24.1

      Good on Andrew Little for calling Key out as scaremonger

      • Grantoc 24.1.1

        How are Key’s comments scaremongering given the events of the last couple of weeks and given that many world leaders are also commenting on these events in similar fashion? Are they also ‘scaremongering?)

        I thought he was quite moderate and low key (no pun intended) with his comments.

        I certainly didn’t feel any sense of being ‘scared’ by them – rather I felt pleased that he discussed how we’re monitoring certain individuals of interest in relation to these matters.

        I think Andrew was being a little (no pun intended) hysterical in response.

        • The Chairman 24.1.1.1

          Key seems to think there is enough evidence for him to publicly claim people are planning terrorist attacks here. Yet, when questioned why aren’t they being rounded up, Key claimed there had to be absolute firm evidence before taking them to court. Implying there isn’t. Yet, that didn’t stop him from publicly making the allegation. Therefore, he was scaremongering.

          • Grantoc 24.1.1.1.1

            I don’t think he claimed “people are planning terrorist attacks here”.

            He stated as best I can recall that a small number of people were seeking to raise funds for terrorist groups and were therefore being monitored. He added that the most effective tactic concerning them right now was to continue monitoring them.

            Your claim that “terrorist attacks are being planned” is inaccurate and in itself is scare mongering.

            • The Chairman 24.1.1.1.1.1

              You are incorrect.

              It (his comment) was the initial headline in the stuff article (now changed) yesterday.

              Hence, the revised addition has Little’s referral to Key’s statement.

              http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/74337359/john-key-scaremongering-with-details-of-security-threats-andrew-little

              Therefore, implying I’m scaremongering is not only factually incorrect, it was an unnecessary low blow.

              In future, up your game.

              • Daniel Cale

                Actually your cite is what Andrew Little said about what John Key said. Why haven’t you quoted John Key’s actual words? Here is what Key is quoted as saying on RNZ “There’s no question about what their motivations are and that’s the tragedy of the Isis story is that you get some very dysfunctional people, for want of a better term, who want to associate themselves with Isis”.

                The only one scaremongering is Andrew Little. The man is dangerous.

          • tracey 24.1.1.1.2

            A bit like he was pretty sure who Rawshark was, until the Police came and asked him…

            It’s like he knows SO much more about what our secret services are doing since he relinquished the role of being responsible for them.

          • CR 24.1.1.1.3

            Key said ‘one or two individuals were very threatening and want to carry out attacks in New Zealand, but were unlikely to do so’ (NZH article)

            It defies credibility that authorities can’t get enough ‘firm evidence’ to take action, despite undertaking ’24/7 physical and electronic surveillance’ of people who are supposedly fundraising for Isis, planning local terror attacks, and actually ‘in Syria now, fighting for Isis’.

            We don’t need to worry about them being left at large in the community though, because surveillance.

            • The Chairman 24.1.1.1.3.1

              The fact there is no firm evidence of these claims, coupled with the time frame (seems these 40 odd individuals have been under surveillance for some time now) raises questions about that surveillance.

              Moreover, ever since this (40 odd under surveillance) has been first reported, there has been ample opportunity (a number of notable dignitaries have stopped in and events taken place) for them to have striked. Yet, nothing.

              Additionally, as far as opportunity goes, are we to believe they have been waiting for security measures to further tighten?

            • Daniel Cale 24.1.1.1.3.2

              You show incredible naivety. We have in this country a standard of proof required to bring a prosecution. It is entirely plausible that we have in our country people who do not quite meet that standard, but nevertheless can be considered dangerous by virtue of actions that go close. Terrorists are not walking around with a hat with the word “terrorist” inscribed on it. For goodness sake grow up.

    • Tautuhi 24.2

      National is playing the USA style fear card, why doesn’t he just remove these threatening individuals from NZ mainland and set up something like Guantanamo or Christmas Island on the Chathams like the Government did with Te Kooti in the 18th Century.

  25. UpandComer 25

    What could possibly go wrong with liberals and definite Tories like Malcolm Turnbull and Julie Bishop being symbolically harrangued by some mediocre nonentity unionist from New Zealand on an issue that Australian’s don’t give a damn about and support the status quo on whole-heartedly. All Andrew will do is assure that the Australian Liberal leadership can’t do anything because then it looks like they formulate Australian policy based on the opinions of one of the minor leaders of the New Zealand opposition. Just like Cunliffe’s class intervention into the Royals tour, Little actually should think less about himself and more about New Zealanders.

  26. Tautuhi 26

    At least Little is showing some spine all we get from National and MSM is misreporting and misinformation.

  27. Geriatric 27

    No one has mentioned the fact that Andrew Little is a Lawyer. I would have thought he would have more credibility going into these meetings on that basis unlike the money manipulator Prime Minister who is internationally a bit of a joke.

    Keys releasing information on the alleged ISIS threat in NZ is another dead cat strategy.

    • whateva next? 27.1

      “No one has mentioned the fact that Andrew Little is a Lawyer” and the fact he akshully cares about other people, great combination as far as I am concerned……right behind you all the way Andrew

    • Daniel Cale 27.2

      Key is not a ‘joke’ internationally. He is one of our best regarded PM’s of recent times, as demonstrated by Turnbulls comments.

  28. Eralc 28

    Andrew Little is out of his depth. He has little gravitas in Australia. He wouldn’t know the meaning of diplomacy or how to work it. If Helen Clark couldn’t do anything to stop this policy in 2001, what makes Mr Littlle think he can get a different result?

    • Colonial Viper 28.1

      He’ll do far better than that spineless John Key.

      • Tautuhi 28.1.1

        No Kelvin Davis said he was gutless, and Key’s minders muscled in on him, what does that tell you about the man?

    • sabine 28.2

      Helen Clark is so yesteryear mate, It’s been John Key who has been impotent and pretty useless for the last seven years, especially with the Ozzies. No wonder their new PM like him so much…….:)

    • One Anonymous Bloke 28.3

      Gravitas is a personal quality that isn’t affected by international borders. If you’re going to use long words learn what they mean.

    • tracey 28.4

      Mr Little is Leader of the Opposition. Part of his job is to shine the light on the actions/inactions of the government and to hold Key’s feet tot he fire.

      If he hadn’t said he was making this trip we would NEVER have known that Key is being quietly diplomatic behind the scenes and making progress… Unusual as it is for Key to hide his light under a bushel

    • Daniel Cale 28.5

      I can’t wait. Little will be greeted politely by the Aussies, and then given his backside a good kicking behind closed doors.

      • Tracey 28.5.1

        You’re up late, Labour voter til Labour stood up for human rights of detainees and folks who spent significant parts of their life in Australia, such that any criminality could be a result of being saped by aussie society, not NZ?

  29. Expat 29

    Surely the human rights of the detainees is what the issue really is, Aus has made vigorous representations to all countries failing to provide their citizens with their legal, obligatory human rights , no matter who they are or what they’ve done.

    If the NZ public and the media don’t get behind someone trying to defend the rights of NZ citizens in another country, then I think I would prefer to become an Australian citizen, at least society hasn’t declined to the extent of that in NZ, where the PM leads by example.

  30. Tautuhi 30

    Little finally showing NZers he has a pair of gonads.

    Hopefully there have not been any human rights abuses at Christmas Island as the Australian Government could be in hot water. The Australian Government and Australian citizens were still treating aboriginals as 2nd class citizens until the 1960’s, so
    their track record is not exactly super good.

    Key’s response last week was rather child like, reminded me of a child throwing his toys
    out of the cot.

    Key always plays the blame game?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 30.1

      “Hopefully”?? We’re way past that: the whole place is a human rights violation.

  31. Humanity 31

    Key claims that the visit could jeopardise progress being made through quiet diplomacy. AHAHAHAHA too funny, Turnball is in love with him, maybe he is worried it will damage the man crush the aussie pm has on him. Vanity and Key go hand and hand. Hands out tissues to Turnball and Key.

  32. Just Me 32

    Key is probably annoyed at Little because he(Key)didn’t think of this himself or done the same thing. Abit like Key called Shane Jones’s visit to Christmas Island a publicity stunt.
    Of late Key is coming across as looking totally fed-up and dis-interested in NZ and NZers(even NZers in Aussie). And it also is noticeable that Key happily gets out of NZ at every opportunity. Methinks the guy really does hate NZ and NZers especially as it seems his vanity project aka the flag referendum looks like it will turn to custard for Key’s intending legacy.
    But then has anyone noticed how immature Key has become of late? Whenever Key is caught in a corner he resorts to typical temper tantrums. He is losing all credibility(not that he had much to begin with). And I think he is losing the plot mentally.
    Just recently he was asked by a journalist(I think it was Paul Henry)in regards to the upcoming conference regarding global warming in Paris. Key piped up like an attention seeking idiot of “I am going to the conference too”. The way he said it was sort of “LOOK AT ME. LOOK AT ME.” I looked at him and thought ‘what a bloody idiot’ and we NZ taxpayers will again be paying for his travel expenses.
    The guy lives in luxury and treats NZers with disdain. He spends OUR money on baubles of luxury and ego. And he has absolutely no interest(as I have said)in NZ or NZers(where-ever in the world they are).
    I bet he hasn’t even helped that former body-guard that would have taken bullets for him whilst the former body-guard was serving in Afghanistan.
    That shows how shallow Key truly is.

  33. Daniel Cale 33

    I’m struggling to figure out if you’re comment about Key being shown up by Little is a leg pull. Little is a fool, and will be given the short shrift he deserves. Oh, and taking Goff with him is a master stroke of idiocy.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 33.1

      Stop the press! Delusional right wing fuck-knuckle disparages left wing leader!

      • Tracey 33.1.1

        Be fair OAB Cale only became a rwnj after years of voting Labour when Labour stood up for human rights and for people essentially aussie not kiwi. He just cracked.

  34. Just Me 34

    I re-read my earlier posting(entry 32) and realised I said Shane Jones had gone to Christmas Island. I meant Kelvin Davis. My apologies for this mistake.

    Key is a failure. Always has been and always will be. He no longer has the stomach for NZ and NZers.

    Just wait and watch. He will be out of NZ more times than he has spent in NZ over the past 2 weeks. In fact over the Christmas break he will be back in his beloved Hawaii(and US) and perhaps playing with Obama’s balls(golf balls that is).

    And overe the Christmas break we will be drip fed daily news items involving the attention seeking, as long as it’s positive, John Key.

    • Tracey 34.1

      For all the criticisms of labour and its disunity I note Davis seems to have happily passed the mantle to Little during his trip to argue the case. That suggests agreed strategy to me which must be a good sign?

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