Labour and the Greens

Written By: - Date published: 1:42 pm, April 11th, 2014 - 162 comments
Categories: greens, labour, MMP - Tags:

So the Greens want a pre-election coalition deal and a formal working together for election.

And Labour don’t.

That doesn’t mean that there’s a big split between the 2 parties, any more than different policies on Deep Sea Drilling do – if they agreed on everything, they’s be the same party.

It’s simple – there’s advantages for the Greens, so they want the pre-election deal.  There’s not for Labour, so they don’t. It needs them both to agree, so it won’t happen, and the Greens will live with it – it was just a proposal.

They and the public all know that after the election Labour and the Greens will have to come to an agreement to govern. If there are Labour ministers, there will be Green ministers. Nothing promised from either side beforehand, as that weakens the negotiating hand – but it will happen. What gets negotiated will depend on what numbers each side gets.

Advantage for Greens: First in, best dressed; guaranteed alliance, ministries, equal partnership.

Disadvantage for Labour: Added complexity in coalition negotiations (trying to fit others into a pre-ordained agreement); lose ‘big party’ status (the 2 are seen as equal if it’s described as “Labour-Greens” instead of “Labour-led”); some loss of interest from centrist voters.

So Guyon on Morning Report this morning, desperately trying to get Cunliffe to say something to put the Greens nose out of joint – let it rest. Everybody knows the position, let’s move on.

And to all those who think coalition agreements should be done beforehand so voters know what they’re getting? It’s just not practical.

You say who you’re likely to work with, who you can work with, and who you can’t.  But until you know the hand voters give you, there’s no way you can say what the agreement will be. You don’t know what other sides will insist on, how much of your manifesto you can negotiate in.  Even a percentage point or 2 can change your hand drastically if it tips the balance. And how many ministries you need to trade for how many policies…

Labour and the Greens have said they’re likely to work together – they’ll need to, and their policies are very similar.  Labour’s said they can work with NZ First, Mana and even the Maori Party; they can’t work with National or Act if it still exists.  That’s all they can give you pre-election, and we shouldn’t expect any more.

162 comments on “Labour and the Greens ”

  1. Chooky 1

    thanks …very succinct…and it needs to be broadcast repeatedly to the public by both Labour and the Greens

  2. Wyndham, George 2

    Two totally different Parties, Bunji. Their projectories are entirely different. Perhaps pointing in the same direction but at very different angles and speeds.

    Labour under Cunliffe will become the party that represents growth, opportunity, safety and sustainability for the workers, the families, the ethnic minorities and the marginalised.
    The Greens are a group of comfortable middle class pakeha who would rather love everything to change a little bit in a somewhat better direction.

    Cunliffe job and the job of every Labour member is to maximise the vote for Labour. He made the right call. Keep it up David.

    • weka 2.1

      Meteria Turei… “comfortable middle class pakeha” 🙄

      “Cunliffe job and the job of every Labour member is to maximise the vote for Labour”

      I agree. So why isn’t he doing that?

      • Ant 2.1.1

        Cunliffe is probably busy having to respond to the politicking around the Green’s bad faith proposal and consequent fallout from them leaking the response.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1

          I doubt it would have been the Greens that leaked it. Plenty of precedents of leaks in the Labour caucus though.

          • Ant 2.1.1.1.1

            Yeah, it just happens that everything from the form of the proposal (that Labour obviously wouldn’t buy in a million years) to the leaking of the rejection completely benefits the Greens to the detriment of Labour.

            But of course, nothing to do with the Green Party.

            • felix 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Plenty of precedent of stupid short-sighted own-goal leaks in the Labour caucus too.

          • Stephen J 2.1.1.1.2

            At least one Green MP I know was happily talking about it at a party I attended recently. They’re humans not saints.

        • weka 2.1.1.2

          “Cunliffe is probably busy having to respond to the politicking around the Green’s bad faith proposal and consequent fallout from them leaking the response.”

          Doesn’t explain his behaviour for the previous 6 months though. Why is he still not making the move that established Labour as a left wing party again, and bring back the lost non-votes?

          • Clemgeopin 2.1.1.2.1

            It is clear that Labour is not a right wing party based on the debates in parliament, the statements from its leader and MPs, and looking at the POLICIES announced so far.

            In reality Labour policies encompass a broad spectrum from the so called
            Far Left ( e.g, buy back assets) to Left (e.g, control power prices) to Centre (e.g, tax regime)

            By the time of the next election in Sept, after all the policies are announced and discussed in the election campaign proper, I think lots of the non voters from both left and right will drift in back towards Labour.

            • The Al1en 2.1.1.2.1.1

              “By the time of the next election in Sept, after all the policies are announced and discussed in the election campaign proper, I think lots of the non voters from both left and right will drift in back towards Labour”

              That’s just not going to happen. Labour led by Cunliffe is a magnitude better than that ‘led’ by Shearer, yet here we are months out from an election and no traction, no momentum and clearly no headway being made to catch up and overtake the national party and it’s crony coalition partners.
              Only way Labour could ever win back another 10% of the party vote is to get rid of the old guard that have failed since 08, grow a pair and commit to policy that’s radical, equitable and sustainable. This sadly, they are unable or unwilling to do.

              I don’t really blame DC, he’s hamstrung by the failed and doesn’t own the parliamentary caucus, and it shows. I think what he needs to remember is that he won’t get another chance post election defeat, so if he’s got the gonads, now is the time to give them an airing. Again, I don’t think this will happen.

              Me, I was a life long Labour voter (here and GB), yet now I have no qualms in voting Green.
              I don’t think of it as deserting or abandoning my past or letting go of tradition, more like deciding to party vote to get the best left government available, and the more than do likewise, the louder the left voice being heard.
              The dinosaurs can’t be trusted, and to borrow a tory slogan – Labour isn’t working.

              • anker

                I think from the moment he took the reigns DC has been under attack by the msm. Some on the DB have talk about the smear campaign against Dot Com, but I think it has been just as bad for DC, (remember that crazy story about him helping his friend buy a house as if it was all very suss).

                I don’t know what’s going on in the Labour Caucus, but if anyone doubts DC wants to take Labour to the left, I have two things to say, policies to date (excepting super) and Matt McCarten. My impression is that the Labour Caucus appear to be firing. Jones, Robertson against Collins, even Trevor Mallard over the PGA contract being terminated. Hipkins too.

                My hunch and my hope is that National are starting to unravel and it will continue and get worse and Labour/Cunliffe, like the horse a little behind in the race is going to gain that momentum and cross the finish line.

                • Clemgeopin

                  I agree!

                  DC has not got enough media coverage and exposure yet. Often it has been for negative reasons, some legitimate, but many for unfair reasons. The so called political commentators or journalists have been quite often unkind unnecessarily without merit.

                  The treatment they mete out to Key is different and favourable.

                  The media makes or breaks politicians. But in the end, I think people will slowly see through the media tricks and bias.

                  So, even if Cunliffe’s personal rating goes even lower, one must not worry too much at this stage. It will go up by Sept by when he and the policies would have got more exposure

            • Jim Nald 2.1.1.2.1.2

              What about pushing the pension age further away? Is that Far Left, Left or Centre? Or ACT?

              • The Al1en

                Far left, centre or act, I couldn’t say, but with an ageing population it’s a common sense policy, just like means testing eligibility is.

                • Ergo Robertina

                  It’s Act policy. It is common sense to neoliberals to create a pool of older desperate workers to keep wages down, and increase inequality.

                  • anker

                    I think we have to remember who will be footing the bill for the people who retire and get a pension at 65……………..yes the younger people. The people who got student loans and were in the past charged interest when many of us got free tertiary education, the people for whom buying a house is almost an impossibility, unless they have very rich parents. The people now who have a deregulated employment market.

                    • The Al1en

                      Indeed, don’t want to create a pool of younger desperate workers overly burdened by taxes, ensuring lower take home pay, and increasing inequality.

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      OK, lets fix the deregulated employment market, the education loan system, and the overpriced housing market, instead of attacking older people and forcing them into an overcrowded labour market or making them go cap in hand to seek early pensions.
                      Oh, and most of the baby boomers who got the free education and low cost first homes will not be affected by the change under the proposed timeframe anyway.
                      And you aren’t helping the young by increasing the labour pool.

                    • The Al1en

                      “attacking older people and forcing them into an overcrowded labour market or making them go cap in hand to seek early pensions”

                      25 years in the future 😆

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      ‘Indeed, don’t want to create a pool of younger desperate workers overly burdened by taxes, ensuring lower take home pay, and increasing inequality.’

                      Wrong. There will be more jobs if the pension age stays at 65, which increases wage rates.
                      Plus, most elderly people spend all their money on goods and services helping the money go round. You assume the young stand to benefit from lower taxes because of a higher retirement age, but it is the rich who will reap any benefits through NZ’s regressive tax regime.

                    • Ergo Robertina

                      ’25 years in the future….’

                      Raising the pension age is ‘common sense’ to you, but it’s not necessary to consider possible consequences and outcomes?
                      Even though you raised the spectre of a bleak future for young people in the counterfactual scenario. Odd.

                    • The Al1en

                      “Wrong. There will be more jobs if the pension age stays at 65, which increases wage rates.”

                      Surely the number of jobs is finite, the variable, using your argument, is whether they are done by the ‘young’ or 65 and 66 year olds.

                      “You assume the young stand to benefit from lower taxes because of a higher retirement age”

                      I assume that the tax burden on all workers will be greater if they have to pay for an ageing population, who live longer, who retire at 65. Not paying those increased taxes will of course be a benefit.

                      “Odd”
                      “it’s not necessary to consider possible consequences and outcomes?”

                      I don’t think raising the pension age to 67 in 25 years is as much of a drama as you are believing it to be.
                      But it doesn’t bother me, I’m a worn out manual worker with f all savings, so I’m getting my bus pass early any way by all accounts. 😉

                      Nothing wrong with looking at different outcomes, but the consequence, if left the same, will prove a costly burden on the workers of the future. It might not be a vote winner, but many here will see the need for it.

                      Ideally Id like a few green Labour governments to sort the economy out and we’ll all retire at 50 on 2/3 the average wage, so let’s cross our fingers and hope for the best.

              • Clemgeopin

                That I think is centre and being pragmatic for today’s world in terms of longevity, health conditions, better medical facilities, work necessities, aging population etc provided the option is left for people to retire at 65 if they choose it for defined legitimate reasons.

                Do remember that if there is a pension age change it will come into play many years from now, 20 or 30 years later, but will be signaled now so that people may make suitable adjustments to their future planning.

                Labour has also signaled that they would bring in compulsory Kiwi Saver which should complement the pension age change from 65 to 68 which will be introduced slowly, a few months extra each year, over time. It won;t all happen suddenly.

                What is your opinion?

      • yabby 2.1.2

        Like it or not George is right that the “comfortable, middle class voter” is the Greens voter. There is many a working class, plain living Labour voter who would rather not vote than vote Green and they’ll hoping that Labour picks up momentum on their own I am sure.
        It would have been political suicide for Labour to be on a joint ticket with the Greens

    • fambo 2.2

      “Labour under Cunliffe will become the party that represents growth, opportunity, safety and sustainability for the workers, the families, the ethnic minorities and the marginalised.”

      Labour might (and hopefully) will become that – the Greens already are that

      • Clemgeopin 2.2.1

        The Green party works with their hearts and sentiments.
        Labour party works with their head, heart and practicalities.

        • greywarbler 2.2.1.1

          Clem.
          FGS what piffle.

        • Tracey 2.2.1.2

          rubbish

          • weka 2.2.1.2.1

            kind of interesting seeing Labour supporters coming out with slurs against the GP though.

            • Tracey 2.2.1.2.1.1

              yes. they sound like national.

              what has gone on this week wont deter me from viting green. I gave them my party vote in 2011 and will do so this year.

              • srylands

                Thats OK. Lots of Green voters at 21 will be ACT voters at 41. You will probably follow suit.

                • felix

                  From my observations it usually works the other way around. Randian nonsense appeals quite strongly to the selfish teenage mentality.

                  • srylands

                    The Greens have four groups of constituents:

                    Communists, generally older

                    Environmentalist extremists (Greenpeace et al), generally older

                    The Young and Confused

                    Urban middle class prosperous people who are apolitical but think the Greens make the flowers grow.

                    • McFlock

                      Some of the old, some of the young, and some of the urban middle class? Pretty broad church.

                      ACT have two groups of constituents:
                      Three unclecousins who think they’re the future leaders of the nation, and epsom national party members who blindly follow dunnokeyo.

                    • DS

                      I think Greens come in two flavours: Old Greens (aka the Hippies), and the New Greens (aka the Liberals). The latter, which have become the dominant force over the last decade, are urban, well-educated, and comfortably off (poor people don’t vote Green – they either vote Labour or don’t vote). This New Green base is socially liberal and empathetic, but in terms of demographics, is not dissimilar to a sort of “ACT with a conscience”.

                      This isn’t to say that the Greens aren’t the good guys (Labour and Greens are both fighting the same enemy), just that the two parties don’t represent the same sort of people.

                    • felix

                      For all the stereotyping that goes on to explain the Green demographic, it just doesn’t match with what I see on the ground.

                      I guess it depends where you look, but this “middle-class urban liberal” thing is only part of the picture. It probably seems true if you’re in central Wellington.

                    • DS

                      It matches the voting patterns. Greens do well in the likes of Wellington Central, and Dunedin North: well-educated voters. They do terribly in South Auckland.

                    • felix

                      Yeah but it’s a massive leap from that to “Greens come in two flavours” et al. I know plenty of Green voters who aren’t old hippies or middle-class urban liberals.

                      Anecdata of course, but so is yours.

                • Stuart Munro

                  Yeah the pattern is pretty clear – you’ve got that 15% of Greens – double that in the youth demographic, and as they age the shift starts to show up as that surge in ACT’s 0%. Oh, wait…

                • Martin

                  speak for yourself. I’m well past 40 and still vote Green.
                  I remember one of my conservative friends tell me at 18 that I would turn by 40.
                  No chance mate.

            • felix 2.2.1.2.1.2

              Labour supporters or NZFirst supporters, weka?

          • Clemgeopin 2.2.1.2.2

            Why rubbish?

            The Green leadership did not use their HEAD properly in their IMPRACTICAL and politically damaging Labour-Green pre-election SENTIMENTAL alliance idea AND damaged Labour (and the Greens too, a little) by making it known to the media too!

            So what I sated IS not rubbish at all. Quite accurate, actually:
            The Green party works with their hearts and sentiments.
            Labour party works with their head, heart and practicalities.

            • weka 2.2.1.2.2.1

              Or maybe the GP just gave a very clear signal to voters. Here is where we all stand.

            • Tracey 2.2.1.2.2.2

              repeating your opinion doesnt make it anymore factual.

              • Clemgeopin

                Well, I have defined Greens and Labour as I see them.
                How would YOU define the two parties from your point of view?

            • Martin 2.2.1.2.2.3

              I still find this stereotypical. I have worked within the Peace Movement and encountered a diverse, effective and democratic community. It was an honour to work with them.

    • Colonial Viper 2.3

      Labour under Cunliffe will become the party that represents growth, opportunity, safety and sustainability for the workers, the families, the ethnic minorities and the marginalised.

      So…we’re back to selling the “growth” snakeoil panacea?

      Look around you. The only economic “growth” happening anywhere in the world is happening courtesy of environmental destruction, fossil fuel depletion, greenhouse gas emissions, and money printing to QE-infinity.

      Unless we find politicians who are willing to talk about achieving a steady state economy or achieving humane, civilised ‘de-growth’ we’re going to keep inviting our “leaders” to lie to us with fairytales of the happy ever after kind.

      • Chooky 2.3.1

        +100…you are sounding like a Greenie…it also means keeping our population down or at least steady in order to protect the environment and std of living

        • Mike S 2.3.1.1

          “keeping our population down”

          By “our” do you mean the west? I ask because it is the rich developed nations which have the population growth problem, the worst being the United States.

          • Populuxe1 2.3.1.1.1

            The west is actually at zero or negative population growth. One reason immigration is an issue

            • Mike S 2.3.1.1.1.1

              The US would have to be at negative population growth for a long time to curb their consumption of resources. For example the average American uses 30 times more resources than someone from India over a lifetime. So India would need a population of somewhere near 15 Billion people just to be on a par with the USA in terms of resource consumption.

              • Populuxe1

                The problem being that what CV is suggesting (but, one suspects, not following himself) is democratically unpalatible and contrary to all humanist principle.

      • Mike S 2.3.2

        “The only economic “growth” happening anywhere in the world is happening courtesy of environmental destruction, fossil fuel depletion, greenhouse gas emissions, and money printing to QE-infinity.”

        Plus natural disasters….(without which GDP growth under National at the moment would be SFA)

  3. captain hook 3

    It will all come out in the wash.
    Labour and the Greens will form the next government and in the meantime the National party who are totally bereft of any meaningful policies are spitting venom.
    Suck it up you losers.

  4. Tamati 4

    The Greens need to have sort of formal arrangement otherwise they’ll been seen as sellouts following any coalition talks. If they continue with “No bottom lines” policy up to the election, what is the point in them releasing any policies or a manifesto?

    They have effectively said they are willing to compromise anything, and are promising nothing!

    On the other hand, I can see entirely why Labour has rejected this idea. They Greens have already pledged to support a Labour government, so why do they need concede anything? The Greens are stuck in a corner, with nowhere to go. They’ll soon come to relize that MMP is great for taking principled stances, but near on impossible for them to achieve anything.

    They’ll be fucked over more than Nick Clegg was.

    • Tamati, Russel has been right when he has been interviews on this issue, bottoms lines are hollow statements unless there is the strength of votes to support them. We Greens will announce our policies (as we have been doing) and the voting public will respond in the numbers related to the support that exists for them. The more support we get, the more likely our policies will be acted on.

      Bottom lines only practically happen during negotiations when the two parties must prioritize their policies to see what is possible and what they may have to give up. Negotiating strength is dependent on the % of the vote. If the Greens got 8% then we would have to seriously think if a coalition is worthwhile because we would end up supporting a raft of policies that we just couldn’t be associated with. If we got 20% and labour got 35% then negations would be far more balanced and there is no way that Labour could completely dictate terms, it would have to be a fully function coalition. Your Nick Clegg analogy would only really apply if the Greens went into coalition with National and that is highly unlikely

      • mickysavage 4.1.1

        Agreed Dave and your comments reinforce why it is important for both parties to campaign hard, increase turnout and then negotiate after the results are known.

      • Tamati 4.1.2

        But Russel is clearly uneasy about having no bottom lines. Why would he go out of his way to propose a pre-election coalition?

        As I’ve said before, what value are policies if you are unwilling to stand up for them? If everything is negotiable, what are the Greens principles?

        I also reject the notion that negotiating strength in dependent on number of seats. Labour will be able to dictate terms unless they actually surpass Labours vote, or consider working with National. What threats can the Greens make to David Cunliffe? They’ve promised to support him regardless. If its 33% to 14% or 38% to 10% or 16% to 31% will make no difference.

        There are countless other analogies where the minor party has been fucked over by the electorate, Nick Clegg is just one example. Ask Nick McKim of the Tasmanian Greens, or Bob Brown and the Australian Federal Greens, the Free Democrats of Germany, United Future in 2005, NZ 1st in 1999 or 2008, the Alliance in 2002, …I could go on.

        • Clemgeopin 4.1.2.1

          I think what ‘negotiating’ means is that some policies will not be able to be pursued during that particular term of office.

          For example, say if the two parties, Labour and Greens are able to form a government on their own with Labour at say, 40% and Greens at 12%, obviously, more of the policies of Labour will get implemented and fewer of the Greens policies as that is the verdict from the voters. The parties could negotiate to see which are the prime policies that they would prefer to be implemented and both parties are in agreement with that.

          There can not be bottom lines especially with parties which have similar policies. Otherwise no government can function.

          Bottom lines make sense if a left party is in coalition with a right wing party.
          For example, for the Maori party it was the repeal of the foreshore and sea bed legislation. But to achieve that, the Maori party swallowed many other ratbag right wing policies of National and ACT

        • fisiani 4.1.2.2

          Correct. Labour if ever in government will give the Greens the bare minimum. The only way for the Greens to get their fair share is to get more votes than Labour. The only way to do that is to get Labour voters to change to Green.

      • Clemgeopin 4.1.3

        Yes, that is the correct situation.

        A formal alliance before the election, if at all desirable, can only be considered if the current polls suggest the two parties have pretty close proximity in party vote figures such as 20 to 30 (or 25 to 35). At the moment that is not indicated as it is around 33 Lab to 11 Greens.

        It is also possible that NZF may win around 7 to 10% and Mana.Dom around 5% This complicates pre election alliances between Labour and Greens as the alliance will favour the Greens far in excess to Labour.

        Since there is very little chance of the Greens winning an electoral seat, it would make more sense if the Green voters who constitute about 11% of voters, vote for the Labour candidates and give their party vote to the greens Greens. Greens voting for their own candidates will be a wasted vote from practical purposes.

        In the case of the Labour voters, it will be sensible for them to give both votes to Labour : Candidate and party, in order to ensure Labour has sufficient MPs in case there are some (or many) candidate electorate defeats by stronger National candidates.

        I think that if the strategy I have suggested above is not followed, it will be harder to form a Labour led left government that many of us want and we may actually end up with a National lead coalition government.

    • Tracey 4.2

      sorry, but i am struggling to follow your agument?

      what was uf, nz1, act, national and the maori party’s bottom line prior to the election in 2011?

      • Tamati 4.2.1

        It’s simple.

        -The Greens have already ruled out supporting a National government. Thus by default they have promised to support a Labour government. (Those on the crossbencher still need to pick a side for confidence in supply.)
        -They’ve also said they won’t make any pre-election commitments.
        -My question, is what the point in voting Greens if they have already committed to supporting Labour and won’t commit to any policies?
        -People voting Greens will essentially be voting on personality and ideology. They don’t really have policies, just aspirations and ideas.

        In terms of 2011 and minor parties on the right. UF and ACT had already committed to support a National government so supported Key with virtually no policy concessions. Key only engaged with Maori party to improve his own image. And NZ 1st promised to go into opposition and did!

        • Tracey 4.2.1.1

          they have committed policies they just wont be the tail that wags the dog that so many in this thread seem to be supporting.

          • Tamati 4.2.1.1.1

            No they don’t Russel Norman has said he is willing to compromise on anything. And if he is willing to compromise on anything, how can he have any principles?

            • McFlock 4.2.1.1.1.1

              Because “compromise” does not mean “surrender”.

              I think the Greens have learned how to work in an MMP environment. If they compromise on mining, they won’t have to compromise on fishing. Alternatively, if they compromise on fishing, they won’t have to compromise on mining. And compromising on mining doesn’t mean opening up all national parks to strip mining, and compromising on fishing doesn’t mean removing all quotas and marine reserves.

              And declaring bottom lines simply allows the nats to use those declarations to try to drive a wedge into negotiations.

              • Tamati

                Because it’s a pretty arrogant attitude to hold against your own voters. It’s basically saying we’ll make all these promises before the election, but only stand up for some of them afterwards.

                What makes you think Labour will concede anything to the Greens anyway?

                • McFlock

                  No, it’s saying “this is what we want to do, but in the real world we’ll have to see because this is a democracy, not a dictatorship”. Non-national voters are grown up enough for that.

                  If labour don’t want to make concessions to other parties, why should those other parties give labour confidence votes – or even merely abstain? That’s why labour or the nats will need to compromise with other parties after the election.

                  • Tamati

                    The Greens have already given Labour their confidence vote. There’s no other option, they’ve painted themselves into a corner by ruling out working with National. The options for the Greens are either the scraps off David Cunliffe’s table or siting down for a glass of milk with Judith Collins.

                    Norman knows he has nothing to offer in the negotiations, hence why he was so keen on a pre-election deal.

                    • McFlock

                      Not supporting national does not equal supporting labour.

                      Like everyone else, I expect they will. But if labour go all neolib and refuse to compromise a little bit on that, then the greens should bring down the government and force either labour to go with national or a snap election.

                    • Tamati

                      Yes, unfortunately it does. The Greens effectively have choice between Labour, Labour and Labour. If they played anarchist and forced another election they would be out of Parliament for good.

                      I really don’t see a Labour/National coalition as viable. But we should really be open to it. It happens all the time in Germany. (Who we copied our electoral system off)

                    • McFlock

                      If they played anarchist and forced another election they would be out of Parliament for good.

                      Or they’d get more support from people who think that the two main parties are too similar for comfort.

                      Maybe even hit 25%.

                      The only question is whether Labour refuses to compromise and thereby forces the Greens’ bluff. Is it a bluff? Who knows…

                  • srylands

                    The problem comes when the compromises are simply not in New Zealand’s interests. For example Green agricultural policies are not capable of compromise. Rather than compromise with minor parties, New Zealand would be better served by another election, and even a third of a fourth until the voters elect a workable government.

                    This will eventually happen if we keep MMP. If we are stuck with it the best outcome would be the re-emergence of a prominent neoliberal faction in Labour so we could have a Labour-National coalition. This is my pick for 2020 if Labour loses the next 2 elections.

                    Remember both National and Labour are left parties. This is the best solution,

                    • Clemgeopin

                      Only a complete idiot, a half wit or a right wing crooked propagandist will say that National is a ‘left’ party!

                    • McFlock

                      Yes, Clemgeopin, sspylands is the voice of the <1% idiot-fuckwit vote.

                    • Martin

                      National? Leftwing?

                      next to Who?

                      Hitler? Pinochet? ACT?

                    • Martin

                      “re-emergence of a prominent neoliberal faction in Labour so we could have a Labour-National coalition.”

                      that would be the death of Labour after the last one.

  5. Puckish Rogue 5

    Labour don’t need to go with the Greens because the Greens have nowhere else to go which is why HC treated them like dirt (good on her for that) and instead courted P Dunne and W Peters

    The Greens have no one else to blame but themselves (though no doubt they’ll try)

    • Tamati 5.1

      Their problem is they have no fall back on their negotiating position. Their option is to be DC’s lap dog, or have another three years in opposition.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1

        Exactly, does anyone think they’d go with National? So Labour can keep them in the cold while negotiating with WinstonFirst knowing that the Greens have no choice but to take whatever Labour give them

        • Tamati 5.1.1.1

          They could offer them associate minister of dog catching and they’d probably take it.

      • Clemgeopin 5.1.2

        Do not underestimate or demean Labour or Mt Cunliffe. They have enough sense and values to support Greens with some or many of their policies, not as their ‘lap dog’ but as good left wing friends and partners.

  6. Lanthanide 6

    “Everybody knows the position, let’s move on.”

    I don’t think that’s fair.

    YOU might know the position, but it doesn’t mean the average punter in the street, who Guyon is supposed to represent and be doing his job for, does.

    • Bunji 6.1

      Except Guyon wasn’t trying to establish the position (which was well-established yesterday, and indeed prior to the Greens’ proposal), he was trying to get DC to diss the Greens: “so you’re going to sacrifice the Greens…”

      • blue leopard 6.1.1

        It sounded to me that he was trying to make it clear that Labour would be working with the Greens and make sense of Cunliffe’s/ Labour’s prevarication on the matter.

      • Lanthanide 6.1.2

        I simply don’t agree with that portrayal at all.

        Guyon was trying to get DC to give his position on it. Because this was actually his first media interview since the story had broken.

  7. Tracey 7

    so winston, who rules out saying who he will wotk with post election, is chastising and ridiculing labour for not working with the greens before the election.

    if reported in a particular way, winston has just indicated he will go with national post election. if i heard correctly winston he couldnt work with labour greens in a govt if they cant work together now.

    i understand people find it hard to fathom how the greens stick to their principles rather than sell their soul for power, funnily enough, some of the very same people who have a go at the maori party for doing just that with national.

    • Tamati 7.1

      If the Greens had principles, wouldn’t they have bottom lines?

      • Tracey 7.1.1

        you mean like fixed and unmoved… makes for very workable negotiations.

        • Tamati 7.1.1.1

          Yes, that’s entirely what principles are. Fixed and unmovable beliefs.

          • Tracey 7.1.1.1.1

            right. so if labour has some fixed and unmoveable beliefs that oppose greens fixed and immoveable beliefs you dont have a coalition you have N impasse.

            I think you misunderstand the difference between prinicples and beliefs.

            you might believe in god but that is not a principle.

            • Tamati 7.1.1.1.1.1

              Because if the Greens have no principles or bottom lines, they’ll end up with nothing. Can you imagine the hypocrisy of Green government allowing more offshore oil drilling!

              As I said before, the Greens have nothing to negotiate. They’ve already pledged to support a Labour government, so why would Labour concede anything to them?

              • Clemgeopin

                Because Labour is an honourable party with values of head and heart with principled leaders and is not a double crossing ungrateful crooked untrustworthy rat bag of a right wing party?

                • Tamati

                  Lol, you keep telling yourself that.

                  Tell me which one of the Labour front bench would be happy to forgo a cabinet seat and a $100,000 pay rise to make way for one of the Greens?

    • Mike S 7.2

      “so winston, who rules out saying who he will wotk with post election, is chastising and ridiculing labour for not working with the greens before the election.”

      Say what? That’s not what I garnered from Winston’s comments here:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11236078

      He seems to be quite supportive of Labour’s position and very critical of the Greens..

      Also, I think he said that NZFirst won’t work with the Maori party so I guess they possibly can with all other parties?

    • Lanthanide 7.3

      The problem with Winston is that he never gives a straight answer to anything, it’s very easy for different people to come to exact opposite conclusions from anything he’s said.

      Also when confronted later, he’ll just deny whatever interpretation is being presented to him that he finds inconvenient at the time.

  8. Pete 8

    If the Greens really wanted to demonstrate good faith, they would have first floated their proposal with Labour behind closed doors. If successful, a joint announcement could have been made.

    Doing it the way Norman did was always either going to force Labour’s hand or embarass Cunliffe in having to shoot the proposal down. It wasn’t a friendly gesture.

  9. Tracey 9

    The New Zealand First leader, Winston Peters, has questioned why his party would want to be part of any post election deal with Labour and the Green Party, if the two cannot co-operate in the run up to polling day. winston april 2014

    “In the ensuing months you’re going to hear all kinds of commentators tediously making all kinds of predictions about the formation of the next government.

    Where New Zealand First is concerned, the smartest thing you can do is to treat those comments with total ignore.

    We are not going to be pre-programmed or pressurised into any coalition arrangements before the people of this country have voted. What we are preparing for is to do whatever it takes to hold the other parties to account on the issues, some of which have just been mentioned. If that means that we may have to do that from the cross benches, then that is exactly what we will do.” peters dec 2013

    this means winston has just called himself tedious

    ” “

  10. Jimmie 10

    Up until now the hopes of the left have been on an Election result of roughly the following outcome:
    Nats 45-46%
    Lab= 34%
    Green= 12%
    NZF= 6%
    Mana + 1 seat

    The achilles heel in this scenario is Winne ‘I love my baubles’ Peters.

    He has historic ties with National and has never been in a government where the greens were involved. He has also indicated that he doesn’t want to be in a government with the greens and probably less with Mana.

    So what is Labour’s plan B if Winnie and John Key seem likely to hold hands on Sept 21 which could be enough to hit the magic 50% mark? (Not including I’m Dunne for, and ACTivate)

    Two scenarios that I can see:

    1 Tell the Greens to stay out in the cold but still provide confidence and supply to a Labour NZ First Government (A bit of a cheek if NZ First only have half the MP’s of the Green party)

    2 To entice Winnie to Labour’s camp promise him the earth – several cabinet posts and Himself back to Foreign Affairs?

    In either case the Greens get shafted badly, no policy gains and no cabinet seats but are still expected to cough up their support for confidence and supply.

    Or is David Cunliffe going to try and get Winnie and Russell Norman to hold hands together? Will Winnie be allowed to veto which green policies can be implemented?

    Gona be very interesting to see the outcome……and also if JK forms another government will Labour give Cunliffe another 3 years to have a crack in 2017?
    What happens to the ABC club – surely they have to be dealt to at some stage – a cancer left grows.

    • Pete 10.1

      What’s very interesting is last week’s Horizon Poll showing that while 66.5% of those polled think National will lead the government after the next election, 51.5% would prefer to see a Labour led government. Turnout is going to be so important.

      • BM 10.1.1

        51.5% would prefer to see a Labour led government.

        Just not this one and especially this one with Cunliffe in charge.

        I haven’t heard any one, apart from his idolaters say anything remotely positive about the man.
        Everyone seems to hate him.

        • Hanswurst 10.1.1.1

          Everybody I’ve met thinks John Key’s a complete dick. One of the reasons why we have opinion polls is so that people can be provided with information that doesn’t reflect the biases that they surround themselves with in everyday life in the form of friends, publications and personal interpretations. Of course, that doesn’t stop fools like you reading information into such polls when it isn’t there.

          • Mike S 10.1.1.1.1

            I agree. Everyone I know hates John Key with a passion. In fact I haven’t met anyone who likes him at all, which leaves me bewildered when I see poll figures.which always show him as being so popular.

            • Hanswurst 10.1.1.1.1.1

              It doesn’t bewilder me at all. Most people I talk about politics with are a bit like me in some ways. However, the evidence of my own eyes tells me that most people in general aren’t much like me at all. Therefore polls that do not reflect my opinion are to be expected.

      • srylands 10.1.2

        So why doesn’t Labour attract 51.5% of the vote?

        • Ant 10.1.2.1

          Because of reading comprehension.

          A Labour led government and a Labour majority are two different things. 😀

        • miravox 10.1.2.2

          Because Labour is not National-no-mates (credible mates, that is).

    • Clemgeopin 10.2

      As regards the possibility of NZF going with National which is a real possibility, it is relevant to recall what Key said of Winston’s supporters in his secret tape during the Banks-Key cup of tea shenanigan that the NZF voters are a dying lot. Not sure these supporters will be thrilled with such a coalition deal.

  11. Pascal's bookie 11

    From what I understand, and please give me a link that shows I’m wrong, the only ‘coalition deal’ being talked about was that ‘the executive would reflect the votes of the coalition’.

    This means that if it was more than just Lab+Greens, then that’s already accounted for. NZF, for eg, would be entitled to their share. I’ve seen a lot of talk from Labour people saying this was about locking NZF out or locking down ministries, or whatever. I’ve seen no evidence of this though.

    • Jimmie 11.1

      Sounds good and fair PB however Winnie’s view of what ‘entitled to his share’ means may be entirely different to yours – think Helen Clark in 1996. Peters has stated he doesn’t want to be part of any government where the Greens are involved and will likely have a veto over what Green policy is implemented.

      If Labour and the Greens don’t like this he will quite easily say I’m with the blue camp.

      So would Labour prefer to be in Government by snubbing their green mates and letting Peters have free reign or tell Winnie First to piss off and staying in opposition for another 3 years?

      Rock and Hard place scenario

      • Pascal's bookie 11.1.1

        Right, so contra what Labour peeps have been saying, this isn’t about ‘arrogant greens’, but about Winston wagging the dog.

        Few points:

        That C&S isn’t the end game. Governments have to pass legislation. (This factors in when we start talking about parties, (NZF or The Greens), sitting on the cross benches. They don’t have to vote for legislation, which is all that matters.)

        That Labour should be doing all it can to emphasise that a vote for Winston isn’t a vote to change the government (this means never, ever, describing him as an ‘option Labour has’. He isn’t, Labour is an option Winston has).

        That increasing the Greens vote, (by suggesting to Labour friendly voters that Labour might sideline the Greens), makes the LP more beholden to the Greens, not less. It reduces options, rather than increases them.

        • Tracey 11.1.1.1

          plus lots

          I suspect some of the comments are from the right just stirring it up

        • Bunji 11.1.1.2

          “the proposal had largely been about the language they used to describe their relationship.”

          Greens wanting to define it as a “Labour-Green” or “Green-Labour” government, Labour wanting it to be a “Labour-led” government. One putting them on equal footing, one making clear that one party would be the predominant force in the coalition.

          On top of that, yes, ideally NZ First isn’t needed – but if it is, does NZ First want to be the bridesmaid at a pre-arranged Labour-Greens wedding, or does it want to participate in a “Labour-led” government. One of these will be much more palatable to Winston…

          Labour can campaign against Winston, but when he still turns out to be the kingmaker – what then?

          Nailing things down in a formal arrangement reduces options, not waiting to see the cards voters deal and negotiating things then.

          • Pascal's bookie 11.1.1.2.1

            “Labour can campaign against Winston, but when he still turns out to be the kingmaker – what then?”

            Winston will do what Winston will do. It’s a crap shoot. If it comes down to it, he will probably go with National instead of being a third fiddle. Or maybe not.

            But saying Labour led, instead of Labour/Green will have so little bearing on it that I don’t even know what the hell y’all are talking about.

            Personally, I’d advise Cunliffe to wait for Winston’s next racist outburst, or Grosser, or whoever, and use it to announce that NZF may be necessary to get rid of National, but they are the last cab off the rank, because they are inherently unstable (Horan!) and are just as likely to go with National anyway.

            The point being to signal loud and clear to everyone who wants to get rid of National, that they should not vote for Winston. Voting for Winston is not voting to change the government. It is voting to have Winston in government.

            Winston would huff and puff and say Labour will come crawling when Labour wants to escape the Greens. Let him. Every vote Winston gets from National helps. Every vote he gets from Labour, hurts.

            And none of it change the fact that if Winston holds the ballance of power, he will decide what to do based on what he wants to do then, not on what happened during the campaign.

    • Ant 11.2

      The One News story from last night had the proposed deal, 3 main points; campaigning as a Labour/Green government, posts dictated by percentages, and one other thing I can’t recall.

  12. greywarbler 12

    Not much enlightenment from the commenters here. Still at chewing gum stage. Baby steps yet to come.

  13. outofbed 13

    Labour and National are more suited
    centre and centre right
    if you want a centre party vote Labour
    If you want left ,Vote Green or Mana

    • Clemgeopin 13.1

      Read the policies of all parties on their party websites and vote for the party that suits you and the country best overall.

      However, it is a little premature to read all the policies yet because the all the policies will only be revealed a few weeks before the election and not before due to busy people’s short memory span as well as to ensure maximum exposure in the media just before the elections.

  14. Sabine 14

    actually, i would not mind to know more on the things that Labour and the Green Party can or can not work on.

    What are the differences and why? Who can not work with whom and why?

    I, the Voter would very much like to know just how far centrist right Labour is going to move to appease the National voter who does not want to vote National, but might vote labour just to get rid of Key.

    I, the Citizen, would very much like to know what Labour believes it can achieve, and no, I am not really interested in Education and housing only. I would like to know what Labour is going to do to revive rural NZ, what Labour is going to do to reduce Unemployment, what Labour is going to do about the consequences of the Beneficiary Bashing, and how they are going to re-educate Winz staff so that their Clients may be treated with respect.

    I, the women would like to know if Labour is going to address Pay Equality – this one i really would like a Party to finally stand up and explain to the men of NZ how much money they don’t get because their Wifes are not paid full fare. and while Labour is at it, announce that you will just raise the friggen minimum wage to something like 16$, and don’t back down.

    and so on and so on.

    I really don’t care anymore of the Antics of Mrs. Bennett, Mrs. Collins, Mr. Bridge and the likes. I want to know what Labour is going to do, and I want them to be loud, proud and brash about it, and I want them to speak to all their potential Coalition Partners, discuss their agreements beforehand and make these discussions and their content known.
    We the Citizens, the Voters and their dependent should know just what we are voting for. You think not?

    • Stuart Munro 14.1

      Yes.

      And if Labour is busy trying to be the mirror to Winston’s chameleon no-one is going to have any idea what Labour stands for beyond ‘trust us’ – a very big ask from the party of Douglas & Prebble.

      There is much work to be done and no excuse for dissembling.

    • Clemgeopin 14.2

      It makes absolutely no sense to negotiate and discus AGREEMENTS for a coalition deal before an election, unless the polls show close proximity in support. Labour at 33% and the Greens at 11% is not close enough.

      The ONLY way for you is to not worry about coalition policies but to concentrate on the policies of each party and see which overall you like better.

      Simply go to their party websites and study the policies and vote for the party that suits YOU best without second guessing what the other voters are thinking..

      After the votes are in, we will all know what the voters have dealt. It is then that common or suitable policies that they can live with could be negotiated between parties.

      We have no idea if Greens get 4% in which case they are gone or 11% as the polls now suggest. There are still 5 months to go and all policies are yet to be announced.

      If we go into an election on common platform, we might as well make it a single party!

      The same applies to other possible coalition partners such as NZA( possibly 7 to 10%), and Mana.Com ( Possibly 5%)

      Why should the Greens get an advantage over the others before the voters have shown their preferences?

  15. gnomic 15

    The last time I saw Winston preaching to the oldies, he gave the triumvirate (Key, English, Joyce) both barrels in terms that a lawyer might have found interesting. Certainly didn’t seem like a friend of the National Party. As per usual he utterly rubbished the Greens. Fundamentally I don’t think Winnie cares about birds and snails, or indeed anything much but a handsome salary with expenses, baubles and foreign travel with photo opps. And oddly enough the Labour party didn’t rate a mention whatsoever. There was no mention of his successor as leader of the Winnie First League.

    • Ad 15.1

      Winston cares about stuff that at least 8% of voters care about, and no other party does this policy combination:
      – people over 65
      – people worried about immigration
      – an export-led economy
      – too much land owned by foreigners
      – horse racing and gambling
      – smoking and drinking

      I think he’s going to do 8% this time.
      Watch him work the magic.

  16. dave 16

    even greens and NZ policy isn’t that different lets take kiwi saver ,labours work with private providers the current system .NZ first and the greens nationalise kiwi saver funds same general idea.
    there is a lot more in common than you think ,some NZ firsts policy and greens and labour ideas are very very good affordable housing ,stop corporate rorting of ordinary citizens and best of all three parties is to turn there backs on neoliberalism.

  17. Bill 17

    Don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this in the comments. I agree, it’s not that complicated. But it’s also not about the Green Party or the Labour Party. It is, or should be, about us. That’s how simple it is.

    • Each party simply present it’s leaders, candidates and policies to ‘us the people’ as well as they can and let us judge them via the ballot box? That would be a bit too radical.

      Wheeling and dealing and squealing rules.

  18. vto 18

    The Greens made a mistake in not going into government in the past as now they are unable to point to any experience or ability at being in government, right when they need it the most. And conversely, this lack of experience and proven ability makes it very easy for the right to paint them in the light they do.

    Best acknowledge the mistake and remedy at next available opportunity.

    • BM 18.1

      Yep if they worked with national they’d have some political track record by now.

      Also they would get more concessions from labour when the red team gets a shot.

      This is basic stuff but some how overlooked by all the big brains in the green camp.

      • felix 18.1.1

        They have worked with National you idiot. They still are working with National wherever possible.

        They work with National on any policy goal that’s common to both parties, which is exactly what any party should do. It’s a pity most of National’s policy goals are inhuman and stupid, but that’s not the Greens’ fault.

  19. MrSmith 19

    Another good week, if nothing else Labour/Greens have had plenty of air time, the more the public hear Cunliffe and Norman speck before the election the better, yes it wasn’t the greatest of issues but that’s not the point, the point is to get people interested, talking and familiar with them so they feel they know and trust them before the election.

  20. Clemgeopin 20

    Good point.

  21. fisiani 21

    Found this list on DPF’s blog
    If you want to know why The Cunliffe does not want to be joined at the hip with The Greens. The Greens are fanatics. They are not normal people. They are zealots who want to impose their beliefs on us all. They truly want to
    1.Ban fizzy drinks from schools
    2.Ban fuel inefficient vehicles
    3.Ban all gaming machines in pubs
    4.Ban the GCSB
    5.Ban violent TV programmes until after 10 pm
    6.Ban feeding of antibiotics to animals that are not sick
    7.Ban companies that do not comply with a Code of Corporate Responsibility
    8.Ban ACC from investing in enterprises that provide products or services that significantly increase rates of injury or illness or otherwise have significant adverse social or environmental effects
    9.Ban commercial Genetic Engineering trials
    10.Ban field testing on production of GE food
    11.Ban import of GE food
    12.Ban Urban Sprawl
    13.Ban non citizens/residents from owning land
    14.Ban further corporate farming
    15.Ban sale of high country farms to NZers who do not live in NZ at least 185 days a year
    16.Ban the transport by sea of farm animals, for more than 24 hours
    17.Ban crates for sows
    18.Ban battery cages for hens
    19.Ban factory farming of animals
    20.Ban the use of mechanically recovered meat in the food chain
    21.Ban the use of the ground-up remains of sheep and cows as stock feed
    22.Ban animal testing where animals suffer, even if of benefit to humans
    23.Ban cloning of animals
    24.Ban use of animals in GE
    25.Ban GE animal food
    26.Ban docking of dogs tails
    27.Ban intrusive animal experimentation as a teaching method in all educational institutions
    28.Ban smacking
    29.Ban advertising during children’s programmes
    30.Ban alcohol advertising on TV and radio
    31.Ban coal mining
    32.Ban the export of indigenous logs and chips
    33.Ban the use of bio-accumulative and persistent poisons
    34.Ban the establishment of mustelid farms
    35.Ban new exploration, prospecting and mining on conservation land and reserves
    36.Ban mining activities when rare and endemic species are found to present on the mining site
    37.Ban the trading conservation land for other land to facilitate extractive activities on.
    38.Ban the further holding of marine mammals in captivity except as part of an approved threatened species recovery strategy
    39.Ban the direct to consumer advertising of pharmaceuticals
    40.Ban sale of chips and lollies on school property
    41.Ban any additional use of coal for energy
    42.Ban fixed electricity charges
    43.Ban further large hydro plants
    44.Ban nuclear power
    45.Ban further thermal generation
    46.Ban private water management
    47.Ban imported vehicles over seven years old
    48.Ban the disposal of recyclable materials at landfills
    49.Ban the export of hazardous waste to non OECD countries
    50.Ban funding of health services by companies that sell unhealthy food (so McDonalds could not fund services for young cancer sufferers)
    51.Ban healthcare organizations from selling unhealthy food or drink
    52.Ban advertising of unhealthy food until after 8.30 pm
    53.Ban all food and drink advertisements on TV if they do not meet criteria for nutritious food
    54.Ban the use of antibiotics as sprays on crops
    55.Ban food irradiation within NZ
    56.Ban irradiated food imports
    57.Ban growth hormones for animals
    58.Ban crown agency investments in any entity that denies climate change!!
    59.Ban crown agency investments in any entity that is involved in tobacco
    60.Ban crown agency investments in any entity that is involved in environmentally damaging oil extraction or gold mining
    61.Ban non UN sanctioned military involvement (so China and Russia gets to veto all NZ engagements)
    62.Ban NZ from military treaties which are based on the right to self defence
    63.Ban NZers from serving as mercenaries
    64.Ban new casinos
    65.Allow existing casinos to be banned
    66.Ban promotion of Internet gambling
    67.Ban advertising of unhealthy food to children
    68.Ban cellphone towers within 300 metres of homes
    69.Ban new buildings that do not confirm to sustainable building principles
    70.Ban migrants who do not undertake Treaty of Waitangi education programmes
    71.Ban new prisons
    72.Ban semi-automatic weapons
    73.Ban genetic mixing between specieis
    74.Ban ocean mineral extractions within the EEZ
    75.Ban limited liability companies by making owners responsible for liability of products
    76.Ban funding of PTEs that compete with public tertiary institutes
    77.Ban the importation of goods and services that do not meet quality and environmental certification standards in production, lifecycle analysis, and eco-labelling
    78.Ban goods that do not meet quality and sustainability standards for goods which are produced and/or sold in Aotearoa/New Zealand
    79.Ban new urban highways or motorways
    80.Ban private toll roads
    81.Ban import of vehicles more than seven years old unless they meet emission standards
    82.Ban imported goods that do not meet standards for durability and ease of recycling
    83.Ban landfills
    84.Ban new houses without water saving measures
    85.Ban programmes on TVNZ with gratuitous violence

    The problem here is that several posters will hail this list as wonderful news. It actually explains why the Greens have and never will be in government.

    • Clemgeopin 21.1

      Thanks for that exhaustive list!
      I am not a Green voter and I did not know all their policies you have publicised. I actually like many of those policies. Sure, a few are debatable, but most are very very good! You have perhaps inadvertently put in a valuable plug for the Greens even though you seem to be a hardened extreme right wing nutter going by some of your posts!

      It DOES NOT explain why Greens don’t get elected. It actually does explain why at least 11% of the population SUPPORT them!

      Labour gets more support because Labour has policies that are doable without extremism.

      • fisiani 21.1.1

        It explains why 8 out of 9 people realize they are nutters

      • srylands 21.1.2

        “sure, a few are debatable, but most are very very good! ”

        All of them are very very bad.

        This is my problem with you. You are looking at policy making through an irrational lens.

        “Ban new urban highways’? We need hundreds of kms of new motorways. We are the way behind other OECD countries on motorways.

        Ban cellphone towers near homes – not based on science.

        Ban private toll roads – hurts the poor – greens forcing poor to subsidise people who drive a long way.

        Ban new casinos – not a role for government.

        Ban private water management – irrational.

        Ban imported goods that don’t meat recycling standards – breaches WTO rules.

        They are nearly all nutty. But they are also damaging , and would especially hurt those on lower incomes. That is the perversity. The Greens purport to have the interests of the poor in mind, when their policies will be most damaging to those on lower incomes.

    • felix 21.2

      So tell me fisiani, which policy on that made-up list do you object to and why?

      Be specific please, pick any one and give the reason you think it’s a bad idea.

    • Lanthanide 21.3

      I’m actually surprised by the number of those I agree with.

      There are a few I’m on the fence on, and a bit more that I’m against. But overall it’s good policy.

      • felix 21.3.1

        Yeah me too, a lot of it just seems like sensible and pretty moderate mainstream stuff for a modern progressive society.

        And that’s supposed to be the right’s “shock horror” list, which really says more about how radical and extremist Farrar and his drones are.

        • McFlock 21.3.1.1

          Yep.
          I had to look up “mustelid” though. We have ferret farms in NZ?

        • Populuxe1 21.3.1.2

          4.Ban the GCSB seems a bit silly – put controls on it by all means, especially in terms of domestic spying, but let’s not pretend the world is all unicorns and rainbows.
          5.Ban violent TV programmes until after 10 pm – don’t see the point of this at all.
          8.Ban ACC from investing in enterprises that provide products or services that significantly increase rates of injury or illness or otherwise have significant adverse social or environmental effects – in principle I agree, practically I would like to see a structured plan.
          9.Ban commercial Genetic Engineering trials – yet to see comprehensive scientific evidence that all GE is bad, and why rule out possible medical applications.
          14.Ban further corporate farming – ban affordable food while you’re at it.
          22.Ban animal testing where animals suffer, even if of benefit to humans – nope, if it benefits humans it trumps animal rights.
          23.Ban cloning of animals – what, even if it can be done without harming animals? What’s the point in that?
          24.Ban use of animals in GE – depends if it can be shown to benefit humans or not.
          27.Ban intrusive animal experimentation as a teaching method in all educational institutions – Not sure I agree, especially in medical and vet schools.
          28.Ban smacking – somewhat redundant as it is already dealt with in legislation.
          30.Ban alcohol advertising on TV and radio
          31.Ban coal mining
          40.Ban sale of chips and lollies on school property
          41.Ban any additional use of coal for energy – I would support in principle
          43.Ban further large hydro plants – no.
          44.Ban nuclear power – It’s already banned.
          45.Ban further thermal generation – I can’t even think why.
          50.Ban funding of health services by companies that sell unhealthy food (so McDonalds could not fund services for young cancer sufferers) – well that’s just stupid.
          53.Ban all food and drink advertisements on TV if they do not meet criteria for nutritious food – fuck off. By all means keep it out of children’s TV hours, but otherwise that’s just fascist.
          55.Ban food irradiation within NZ – no science to back this
          56.Ban irradiated food imports – no science to back this
          61.Ban non UN sanctioned military involvement – no, we are a sovereign nation and no other UN member would agree to this.
          62.Ban NZ from military treaties which are based on the right to self defence – WTF?!?!
          65.Allow existing casinos to be banned – excessive wowserism
          71.Ban new prisons – not sure this is practical as our existing prisons age.
          72.Ban semi-automatic weapons – I was under the impression they were effectively controlled anyway
          79.Ban new urban highways or motorways – really not sensible, especially if there is an earthquake or something
          82.Ban imported goods that do not meet standards for durability and ease of recycling – that will be a rather expensive stance
          83.Ban landfills – not practical at all
          85.Ban programmes on TVNZ with gratuitous violence – paging Mary Whitehouse. So no Sopranos, no Game of Thrones, no Walking Dead, no anything really.

          • felix 21.3.1.2.1

            You do realise this is just David Farrar’s list, don’t you?

            • McFlock 21.3.1.2.1.1

              even so, it’s funny to see some of the things that farrar thinks would be nightmarish policies 🙂

  22. fisiani 22

    It explains why 8 out of 9 people will never vote for them. It explains why The Cunliffe does not want to be linked with them. It is an exhaustive list of why they will lose. Let me patiently explain. 8 out of 9 voters do not want these extremist nutbars. Get Labour get The Greens thus less votes for Labour/Green axis of fanaticism.

    • blue leopard 22.1

      So what is your explanation of the results of this poll saying 52% (approx. 5 out of 9) of eligible voters would prefer a Green/Labour government over a NZFirst/Labour government – and only 6% (half a person out of 9) said they wouldn’t want either choice?

      http://www.colmarbrunton.co.nz/images/ONE_News_Colmar_Brunton_Poll_report_19-23_Oct_2013.pdf

      (pg 17)

      Also, just because someone votes for one party, doesn’t mean they are not o.k about another getting in. I realise this will be a difficult concept for you to grasp but on the left we have lots of good parties to choose from.

  23. Craig Y 23

    Here’s an overview of how social democratic/green/anti-market populist party coalitions have worked out from an international perspective (an excerpt from a forthcoming Gaynz.Com article on the issue):

    I must also admit that frankly, I find remarks from some political commentators that a Labour/Green coalition would be unstable or unworkable either woefully ignorant or highly selective in terms of their awareness of overseas centre-left social democratic/green coalitions that have worked well. In Germany, Social Democrat Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder led a successful and effective Social Democrat/Green coalition (1998-2005) for two Bundestag terms. In Finland, Social Democrat Prime Minister Paavo Lipponen’s government included Cabinet minister representation from both the Green League and Finnish People’s Party (akin to New Zealand First), so it might be interesting to focus on how that worked (1995-2002). Iceland saw (out lesbian) Prime Minister Johanna Sigurdasdottir lead a ‘red/green’ coalition in power for four years (2009-2013). There are therefore ample examples of functional and stable social democratic/green coalitions in place within Western Europe should anyone wish to consult them for precedents. In Canada, the centrist Liberal Party and Green Party of Canada also have an informal ‘red/green’ relationship in the House of Commons. I would suggest that instead of unsubstantiated and subjective opinion, television news and current affairs programmes research these prior instances, as indeed should Labour and the Greens themselves. Germany, Finland and Iceland suggest that a red/green coalition is stable and workable.

    What about ‘traffic light coalitions’ that might conceivably include Labour, the Greens and New Zealand First? These have existed overseas. In particularly, the Czech Republic may offer some interesting insights into how this might unfold. Rather like New Zealand First, the Czech Peoples Party is predominantly targeted at elderly voters and its political existence is marginal, depending on whether or not it is acting as a protest vote or taking advantage of the cyclical weakness of one of the major Czech political parties. However, in Denmark, the Danish Peoples Party has aligned itself with the centre-right Conservatives and Liberals in government over the last decade, which might hearten New Zealand First (and National?), or not. Similarly, in 2007, the Polish Peoples Party formed a coalition with the centre-right Civic Platform, the major winner in that year’s national election. However, again, in Slovakia, its Peoples Party formed a coalition with the centre-left Social Democrats (2006-2010). Thus, if Winston Peters chose to play a more constructive role in current New Zealand electoral politics, he would have precedents on both sides of his prospective balancing act. The Czech Republic and Slovakia offer one set of examples, while Denmark and Poland offer the other option. However, the Czech Republic seems to be the only example of a ‘traffic light’ coalition arrangement. Winston could go either way, judging from the behaviour of his counterparts and closest political equivalents elsewhere.

    Recommended Further Reading:

    Charles Lees: The Red/Green Coalition in Germany: Politics, Personalities and Power: Manchester: Palgrave: 2000.

    Werner Reutter: Germany on the Road to Normalcy: Politics and Policies of the Red/Green Federal Government: 1998-2002 Manchester: Palgrave: 2004

    Franko Zelko and Caroline Brinkman: Green Parties: Reflections on the First Three Decades: Washington DC: Heinrich Boll Foundation: 2006.

    Elizabeth Bomberg: Green Parties and Politics in the European Community: London: Routledge: 1998.

    Tad Shull: Redefining Red and Green: Ideology and Strategy in European Politics: Albany: State University of New York Press: 1999

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Growing affordability concerns over power and housing
    TL;DR: Electricity affordability is a growing concern for households and small businesses, despite falling generation costs for solar and wind, a survey has found.Meanwhile, Stats NZ is forecasting more than a third of 19-29 year olds will stay living at home within the next two decades, no doubt because of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 hour ago
  • Some fine ideas for making Aotearoa safer
    This is a guest post by Darren Davis, reposted with his kind permission. It originally appeared on his excellent blog Adventures in Transitland, which we warmly encourage you to check out. Aotearoa has one of the worst road safety records in the developed world. Australia is doing quite a bit ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    2 hours ago
  • Saying Goodbye To a Friend
    The audio in today’s newsletter contains a conversation I had last year with journalist Elizabeth Williamson, author of an incredibly moving book on Sandy Hook. We talked America, conspiracies, and Alex Jones. It’s been gathering dust for reasons we’ll get to, but I wanted to share our conversation today. ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    3 hours ago
  • The real reasons why Councils opposed Three Waters
    The anti Three Waters campaign which seemed so simple during the election campaign is now bogged down in a Select Committee as submitter after submitter raises issues with the replacement legislation. The so-called “Local Water Done Well” has now morphed into the Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill, which ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 hours ago
  • At a glance – What caused early 20th Century warming?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    16 hours ago
  • A privilege
    On we go, at 20 kilometres an hour, truly the best pace for rolling through the world and breathing it all in.Fascinating to get to see two, four, twenty new places each day. Marvellous to get to see how very many different ways you can make it good for people ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    18 hours ago
  • Unbridled power again
    There's a couple of pieces about architect-of-our-constitution Geoffrey palmer's views on the current government doing the rounds today. The first, on Newsroom is an excerpt from a speech he gave to a Young Labour meeting last weekend, in which he says NZ an executive paradise, not democratic paradise. The Spinoff ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    18 hours ago
  • National’s secret schools
    The government just introduced its Education and Training Amendment Bill to the House. The name is deliberately obfuscatory, because what the bill actually does is reintroduce charter schools - effectively allowing National to privatise the education system. That's corrupt and it stinks, but to add insult to injury, National's new ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    19 hours ago
  • Bernard's mid-winter pick 'n' mix for Tuesday, June 25
    Confidence about future job availability collapsed after Budget 2024 to lows last seen during the the Global Financial Crisis of 2008/09. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Employee confidence in more jobs being available in a year’s time collapsed in the first two weeks of June after the Budget, falling ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    23 hours ago
  • “I Don't Care”
    Walking through the rooms in my headI came across your image,You looked at me with that sweet smile and saidSomething they won't let me repeatWe hurt the ones we love the mostIts a subtle form of complimentAfter you’ve watched Christopher Luxon for a while you think to yourself - that ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    24 hours ago
  • Gordon Campbell on cancer drugs, and the Great Ferries Cancellation Disaster of ’23
    The decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind, let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    24 hours ago
  • June-24 AT Board Meeting
    Today the Auckland Transport board meets again,so I’ve taken a look through the items on their public agenda to see what’s interesting. Musical Chairs The first item of note is another change to the make-up of the AT Board. The legislation that established Auckland Transport allows for Waka Kotahi to ...
    1 day ago
  • Colonial oppression in Kanaky
    How does France deal with opponents of its colonisation of the Pacific? Arrest them and deport them to France to face prosecution in a foreign court: A group of pro-independence leaders charged with allegedly organising protests that turned into violent unrest in New Caledonia last month was indicted on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Media Link: Post-pandemic economics and the rise of national populism” on “A View from Afar.”
    On this edition of AVFA Selwyn Manning and I discuss post-pandemic economics and the rise of national populism. It seems that a post-pandemic turn to more nationalist economic policies may have encouraged the rise of populists who use xenophobia and … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: National’s vice-signalling
    Two weeks ago the climate denier government announced they would be giving farmers what they want and removing agriculture from the ETS. On Friday they introduced the bill for it to the House. Due to past efforts and backdowns, the Climate Change Response Act has a lot of inactive clauses ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • The Left’s Joyous Cherub: Keith Locke, 1944 – 2024.
    The Struggle Continues: Keith Locke belonged to a generation that still believed in a world that could be, through struggle, relieved of its chains. That struggle constituted the core of a life lived with purpose, courage and determination. MANY NEW ZEALANDERS would, no doubt, have been surprised to discover that Keith Locke was ...
    2 days ago
  • The Night Before Yule: A Reprint
    A couple of my stories – A Breath Through Silver, and The Last Libation – have previously earned themselves reprints. Well, I am pleased to report that the nice people at Heroic Fantasy Quarterly (https://www.heroicfantasyquarterly.com/) have included my narrative horror-poem, The Night Before Yule, in their newly-compiled Best Of anthology. ...
    2 days ago
  • Bernard’s mid-winter pick ‘n’ mix for Monday, June 24
    TL;DR: Responding to the grounding of the Aratere over the weekend, the Government has signalled it will buy new replacement ferries, but only enough to replace existing freight capacity.That would effectively limit Aotearoa-NZ’s ability to handle any growth in population or the need to reduce emissions by shifting freight from ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Greater Auckland 2.0 – we need your help!
    Hi, we’re Greater Auckland. We’ve been a part of the landscape for over 15 years now. Over that time, we’ve provided informed commentary, evidence-based analysis, and inspiring visions for the future of Tāmaki Makaurau. You might know us from such hits as: The Congestion-Free Network 2013 (and its 2017 ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    2 days ago
  • Distractions and Inaction.
    Fancy, a fast carA bag full of lootI can nearly guaranteeYou'll end up with the bootThe Prime Minister arrived home, perhaps a bit surprised, maybe even secretly a little pleased at the diversion, to find the country falling apart. Things going more badly that even his c-list, self back-slapping, trip ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • KiwiRail aground while Government obfuscates
    The problems at KiwiRail go further and deeper than the maintenance issue, which caused the inter-island ferry Aratere to run aground on Saturday. The company is also the subject of a damning report published last week about the way it runs its rail operations from the Transport Accident Investigation Commission. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #25
    A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, June 16, 2024 thru Sat, June 22, 2024. Stories we promoted this week, by publication date: Before June 16 ‘Unprecedented mass coral bleaching’ expected in 2024, says expert, ...
    3 days ago
  • The Realm Of The Possible.
    The People’s House: What would it be like to live in a country where a single sermon could prick the conscience of the comfortable? Where a journalist could rouse a whole city to action? Where the government could be made to respond to the people’s concerns? Where real change was possible? And ...
    3 days ago
  • Public Service Day
    Good morn or evening friendsHere's your friendly announcerI have serious news to pass on to everybodyWhat I'm about to sayCould mean the world's disasterCould change your joy and laughter to tears and painIt's thatLove's in need of love todayDon't delaySend yours in right awayHate's goin' 'roundBreaking many heartsStop it pleaseBefore ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • When is a road of National significance not a road of National significance?
    I loved everything about my first Cook Strait ferry crossing: a day parked in the car in howling Wellington wind and driving Wellington rain, waiting to hear if they were going to sail or not; watching the huge black ministerial limousines come and go; listening to the adventures of Chicken ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Fact Brief – Was the Medieval Warm Period a global event?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by John Mason in collaboration with members from the Gigafact team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Was the Medieval Warm Period a global ...
    4 days ago
  • Aotearoa Runs Aground
    Your face has fallen sad nowFor you know the time is nighWhen I must remove your wingsAnd you, you must try to flyCome sail your ships around meAnd burn your bridges downWe make a little history, babyEvery time you come aroundWhen I went to bed last night I thought the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • Wagon keeps movin'
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past somewhat interrupted week. Still on the move!Share Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago
  • Mainstreaming Māori
    Mainstreaming need not be inherently anti-Māori. It will be if it is done badly because it will be anti-those-in need, and proportionally more of them are Māori.That the Coalition Government says it will deliver public services on the basis of need rather than, say, race deserves consideration, even though many ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • National says “fuck you”
    The Justice Committee has reported back on the government's racist bill to eliminate Māori representation in local government. The report duly notes the Waitangi Tribunal's finding that the bill breaches te Tiriti, and the bill's inconsistency with our international human rights obligations - and then proceeds to ignore both. Instead, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Christopher Luxon is – Big in Japan
    This week our Prime Minister Christopher Luxon… mmm, let’s take a moment to consider just how good that sounds. Hope you weren’t eating.Anyway that guy. Better? That bloke from the telly, he said - what I would say to you is… I’m big in Japan. My kind of people, hard ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 21-June-2024
    Tis the winter solstice! The shortest day and longest night of the year. The good news: we’re on our way back to summertime. Here’s another roundup of stories to brighten up your Friday. Our header image is from CRL and shows Waihorotiu Station lit up for Matariki 2024 The ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    5 days ago
  • Bernard’s mid-winter pick ‘n’ mix for Friday, June 21
    Our economic momentum remains anaemic, and it’s possible the tiny increase in GDP was a ‘dead cat bounce’. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Per-capita GDP has fallen 4.3% from its peak over the last 21 months, which is more than it it fell in the Global Financial Crisis recession ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The Futility of Punishment
    Hi,I was in Texas recently and couldn’t stop thinking about how in some parts of America they really like to kill their prisoners. As a society we tend to agree murder is wrong, but somewhere along the way Texas figured it’s fine if it’s after 6pm and the killing is ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago
  • The new Beehive approach to the environment
    A persistent theme has been weaving between the Committee rooms at Parliament all this so-called “Scrutiny” week as MPs have probed Ministers and agencies about their work and plans. The question has been simply what the environmental price might be if the country begins to accelerate its infrastructure building to ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #25 2024
    Open access notables Climate Change Is Leading to a Convergence of Global Climate Distribution, Li et al., Geophysical Research Letters: The impact of changes in global temperatures and precipitation on climate distribution remains unclear. Taking the annual global average temperatures and precipitation as the origin, this study determined the climate distribution with the ...
    6 days ago
  • You take nicer pictures when you’re not drunk
    Readers keeping count will know it's more than five years since I gave up booze. Some of you get worried on my behalf when I recount a possibly testing moment. Anxious readers: today I got well tested.All the way across France I've been enquiring in my very polite and well-meaning but ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • Cancer
    Turn awayIf you could, get me a drinkOf water 'cause my lips are chapped and fadedCall my Aunt MarieHelp her gather all my thingsAnd bury me in all my favourite coloursMy sisters and my brothers, stillI will not kiss you'Cause the hardest part of this is leaving youI remember the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on why we shouldn’t buy new planes for the PM
    Its not often that one has to agree with Judith Collins, but yes, it would indeed cost “hundreds of millions of dollars” (at least) to buy replacement aircraft to fly the Prime Minister on his overseas missions of diplomacy and trade. And yes, the public might well regard that spending ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    6 days ago
  • The Stadium Debate – What About the Transport Options?
    A few weeks ago, Auckland Council took another step in the long-running stadium saga, narrowing its shortlist down to two options for which they will now seek feasibility studies. The recommendation to move forward with a feasibility study was carried twenty to one by the council’s Governing Body for the ...
    6 days ago
  • Bernard’s mid-winter pick ‘n’ mix for Thursday, June 20
    Social Development Minister Louise Upston has defended the Government’s decision to save money by dumping a programme which tops up the pay of disabled workers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: It has emerged the National-ACT-NZ First Government decided to cut wages for disabled workers from the minimum wage to $2 an hour ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Where the power really resides in Wellington
    The new Chief Executive of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) yesterday gave a Select Committee a brutally frank outline of the department’s role as the agency right at the centre of power in Wellington. Ben King, formerly a deputy Chief Executive at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago
  • Climate Adam: Why we're still losing the fight against Methane
    This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Carbon dioxide is the main culprit behind climate change. But in second place is methane: a greenhouse gas stronger than CO2, ...
    7 days ago
  • Climate Change: More ETS failure
    A few weeks ago, I blogged about the (then) upcoming ETS auction, raising the prospect of it failing, leaving the government with a messy budget hole. The auction was today, and indeed, it failed. In fact, it was such a failure that no-one even bothered to bid. Its easy to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • The Return of Jacinda.
    Oh, take me, take me, take meTo the dreamer's ballI'll be right on time and I'll dress so fineYou're gonna love me when you see meI won't have to worryTake me, take mePromise not to wake me'Til it's morningIt's all been trueEarly morning yesterday, well before dawn, doom-scrolling.Not intentionally, that’s ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • How good is the interim NW busway?
    This is a guest post by Pshem Kowalczyk, a long-time follower of the blog. With great fanfare, just over six months ago (on 12 November 2023), AT launched its interim busway for the NorthWest region, with the new WX express service at the heart of the changes. I live ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    1 week ago
  • Consumer confidence collapses after Budget, in contrast with rest of world
    The first widespread survey of consumers and voters since the Budget on May 30 shows a collapse in confidence. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The belt-tightening and tax-cutting Budget delivered on May 30 has not delivered the boost to confidence in the economy the National-ACT-NZ First Government might have ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The end for the Air Force 757s
    The Air Force 757 that broke down with the Prime Minister on board in Port Moresby on Sunday is considered so unreliable that it carries a substantial stock of spare parts when it travels overseas. And the plane also carries an Air Force maintenance team on board ready to make ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago
  • At a glance – Was 1934 the hottest year on record?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    1 week ago
  • It's not New Zealand they've never heard of, it's him
    Sometimes you’ll just be so dog-tired, you can only keep yourself awake with a short stab of self-inflicted pain.A quick bite of the lip, for instance.Maybe a slight bite on the tongue or a dig of the nails.But what if you’re needing something a bit more painful?The solution is as ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • Some “scrutiny” II
    Last month I blogged about the Ministry of Justice's Open Government Partnership commitment to strengthen scrutiny of Official Information Act exemption clauses in legislation", and how their existing efforts did not give much reason for confidence. As part of that, I mentioned that I had asked the Ministry for its ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Gordon Campbell on why the Biden “peace plan” for Gaza is doomed
    After months and months of blocking every attempt by the UN and everyone else to achieve a Gaza ceasefire, US President Joe Biden is now marketing his own three-stage “peace plan” to end the conflict. Like every other contribution by the US since October 7, the Biden initiative is hobbled ...
    WerewolfBy lyndon
    1 week ago
  • Raised crossings: hearing the voice of vulnerable pedestrians
    This is a guest post by Vivian Naylor, who is the Barrier Free Advisor and Educator at CCS Disability Action, Northern Region, the largest disability support and advocacy organisation in Aotearoa New Zealand. She also advises on AT’s Public Transport and Capital Projects Accessibility Groups. Vivian has been advocating and ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    1 week ago
  • Leaving on a Jet Plane
    So kiss me and smile for meTell me that you'll wait for meHold me like you'll never let me go'Cause I'm leavin' on a jet planeDon't know when I'll be back againOh babe, I hate to go“The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Bernard's mid-winter pick 'n' mix for Tuesday, June 18
    The election promises of ‘better economic management’ are now ringing hollow, as NZ appears to be falling into a deeper recession, while other economies are turning the corner. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The economy and the housing market are slumping back into a deep recession this winter, contrasting ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • Scrutiny week off to rocky start
    Parliament’s new “Scrutiny” process, which is supposed to allow Select Committees to interrogate Ministers and officials in much more depth, has got off to a rocky start. Yesterday was the first day of “Scrutiny Week” which is supposed to see the Government grilled on how it spends taxpayers’ money and ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago
  • The choice could not be more stark’: How Trump and Biden compare on climate change
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Barbara Grady Illustration by Samantha Harrington. Photo credits: Justin Lane-Pool/Getty Images, Win McNamee/Getty Images, European Space Agency. In an empty wind-swept field in Richmond, California, next to the county landfill, a company called RavenSr has plotted out land and won ...
    1 week ago
  • Differentiating between democracy and republic
    Although NZ readers may not be that interested in the subject and in lieu of US Fathers Day missives (not celebrated in NZ), I thought I would lay out some brief thoughts on a political subject being debated in the … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Bernard's mid-winter pick 'n' mix for Monday, June 17
    TL;DR: Chris Bishop talks up the use of value capture, congestion charging, PPPs, water meters, tolling and rebating GST on building materials to councils to ramp up infrastructure investment in the absence of the Government simply borrowing more to provide the capital.Meanwhile, Christopher Luxon wants to double the number of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • You do have the power to change things
    When I was invited to come aboard and help with Greater Auckland a few months ago (thanks to Patrick!), it was suggested it might be a good idea to write some sort of autobiographical post by way of an introduction. This post isn’t quite that – although I’m sure I’lll ...
    Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Turning Away – Who Cares If We Don't?
    On the turning awayFrom the pale and downtroddenAnd the words they say which we won't understandDon't accept that, what's happeningIs just a case of other's sufferingOr you'll find that you're joining inThe turning awayToday’s guest kōrero is from Author Catherine Lea. So without further ado, over to Catherine…I’m so honoured ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Dissecting Tickled
    Hi,Tickled was one of the craziest things that ever happened to me (and I feel like a lot of crazy things have happened to me).So ahead of the Webworm popup and Tickled screening in New Zealand on July 13, I thought I’d write about how we made that film and ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand Webworm Popup + Tickled!
    Hi,I’m doing a Webworm merch popup followed by a Tickled screening in Auckland, New Zealand on July 13th — and I’d love you to come. I got the urge to do this while writing this Webworm piece breaking down how we made Tickled, and talking to all the people who ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    1 week ago
  • What China wants from NZ business
    One simple statistic said it all: China Premier Li Qiang asked Fonterra CEO Miles Hurrell what percentage of the company’s overall sales were made in China. “Thirty per cent,” said Hurrell. In other words, New Zealand’s largest company is more or less dependent on the Chinese market. But Hurrell is ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 week ago
  • Review: The Worm Ouroboros, by E.R. Eddison (1922)
    One occasionally runs into the question of what J.R.R. Tolkien would have thought of George R.R. Martin. For years, I had a go-to online answer: we could use a stand-in. Tolkien’s thoughts on E.R. Eddison – that he appreciated the invented world, but thought the invented names were silly, and ...
    1 week ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #24
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, June 9, 2024 thru Sat, June 15, 2024. Story of the week A glance at this week's inventory of what experts tell us is extreme weather mayhem juiced by ...
    1 week ago
  • Sunday Morning Chat
    After a busy week it’s a good day to relax. Clear blues skies here in Tamaki Makaurau, very peaceful but for my dogs sleeping heavily. In the absence of a full newsletter I thought I’d send out a brief update and share a couple of posts that popped up in ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • The Book of Henry
    Now in the land of Angus beef and the mighty ABsWhere the steaks were juicy and the rivers did run foulIt would often be said,This meal is terrible,andNo, for real this is legit the worst thing I've ever eatenBut this was an thing said only to others at the table,not ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • Fact Brief – Is ocean acidification from human activities enough to impact marine ecosystems?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from the Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is ocean acidification from human ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Happiness is a Warm Gun
    She's not a girl who misses muchDo do do do do do, oh yeahShe's well-acquainted with the touch of the velvet handLike a lizard on a window paneI wouldn’t associate ACT with warmth, other than a certain fabled, notoriously hot, destination where surely they’re heading and many would like them ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 weeks ago
  • Still doing a good 20
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past somewhat interrupted week. Still on the move!Share Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 weeks ago
  • Coalition of the Unwilling?
    What does Budget 2024 tell us about the current government? Muddle on?Coalition governments are not new. About 50 percent of the time since the first MMP election, there has been a minority government, usually with allied parties holding ministerial portfolios outside cabinets. For 10 percent of the time there was ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    2 weeks ago
  • Of red flags and warning signs in comments on social media
    Somewhat surprisingly for what is regarded as a network of professionals, climate science misinformation is getting shared on LinkedIn, joining other channels where this is happening. Several of our recent posts published on LinkedIn have attracted the ire of various commenters who apparently are in denial about human-caused climate change. Based ...
    2 weeks ago
  • All good, still
    1. On what subject is Paul Henry even remotely worth giving the time of day?a. The state of our nationb. The state of the ACT partyc. How to freak out potential buyers of your gin palace by baking the remains of your deceased parent into its fittings2. Now that New ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 weeks ago
  • The looting is the point
    Last time National was in power, they looted the state, privatising public assets and signing hugely wasteful public-private partnership (PPP) contracts which saw foreign consortiums provide substandard infrastructure while gouging us for profits. You only have to look at the ongoing fiasco of Transmission Gully to see how it was ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Minister celebrates students’ space success
    Space Minister Judith Collins is applauding students from Canterbury University’s Aerospace Club on their success at the world’s largest inter-collegiate rocket engineering competition, the Spaceport America Cup. “More than 120 teams from 20 countries participated in Spaceport America Cup, with the team from Canterbury University winning in their ‘30,000 Foot’ ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Address – Commemoration of the 74th Anniversary of the Commencement of the Korean War
    Tena koutou.Ki nga kaumatua,Ki nga whanau,Ka maumahara tonu tatou ki a ratou. Greetings.To the elders,To the families,We will remember them. Firstly, a special welcome to all the veterans here this morning and their families.  I want to acknowledge the veterans who are marking this day but cannot be with us ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • New WorkSafe board appointments to address a history of poor financial management
    Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says three appointments to the WorkSafe board have been made to strengthen the organisation, ensuring it has the skills and expertise it needs to carry out its functions.  “WorkSafe has faced a number of recent challenges, including accumulating an almost $18 million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Next phase of the Royal Commission into COVID-19
    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says this coalition Government is delivering on our commitment to expand the terms of reference for the independent Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons Learned. “There will be a second phase to the Royal Commission which features new commissioners and an expanded terms of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Government introduces Three Strikes Bill
    The Government has introduced a Bill today to restore the Three Strikes sentencing law, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee says. “New Zealanders are rightly concerned about violent crime. We are delivering on our commitment to introduce a revised Three Strikes law as one of our key law and order priorities.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • New support for agricultural emissions reduction
    The Government and the Bank of New Zealand (BNZ) are together committing an additional $8 million towards AgriZeroNZ to boost New Zealand’s efforts to reduce agricultural emissions. Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says the strength of the New Zealand economy relies on effective and affordable emission reduction solutions for New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Government actions strengthening Māori success
    Tākina Puanga. Ko Puanga kei runga. Ko Puanga e Rangi. Tākina mai te ara o Puanga nui o te rangi. Tākina ngā pou o te tau. Ki te whai ao ki te ao marama. Puanga or Rigel celebrations reflect a renewed energy across our communities – to acknowledge those who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Transformative investment in cancer treatments and more new medicines
    The coalition Government is delivering up to 26 cancer treatments as part of an overall package of up to 54 more new medicines, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti and Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. “Pharmac estimates that around 175,000 people will benefit from the additional treatments in just ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • More support for drought-affected communities
    The coalition Government is providing more financial support to drought-stricken farmers and growers in many parts of the country to help with essential living costs. “Rural Assistance Payments have been made available in 38 districts affected by dry conditions to help eligible farmers and growers whose income has taken a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Job seekers to report on progress after six months from today
    A new requirement for people on Jobseeker Support benefits to meet with MSD after six months to assess how their job search is going gets underway today. About 20,000 Jobseeker beneficiaries with full-time work obligations are expected to attend MSD’s new ‘Work check-in’ seminars over the next 12 months, Social ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New cops means more Police on the beat
    The decision to deploy more Police on the beat in Auckland CBD has been welcomed by Police Minister Mark Mitchell and Associate Police Minister Casey Costello. Starting from 1 July, an additional 21 police officers will be redeployed in Auckland City, bringing the total number of beat police in the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government takes action to address youth crime
    The Government is introducing a new declaration for young offenders to ensure they face tougher consequences and are better supported to turn their lives around, Children’s Minister Karen Chhour announced today. The establishment of a Young Serious Offender declaration delivers on a coalition Government commitment and supports the Government’s target ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Reserve Bank chair reappointed
    Professor Neil Quigley has been reappointed as Chair of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Board for a further term of two years, until 30 June 2026.  “Professor Quigley has played a key role in establishing the new Board after the commencement of the new RBNZ Act on 1 July ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • School attendance increases
    School attendance data released today shows an increase in the number of students regularly attending school to 61.7 per cent in term one. This compares to 59.5 per cent in term one last year and 53.6 per cent in term four. “It is encouraging to see more children getting to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Record investment in public transport services
    The Government has announced a record 41 per cent increase in indicative funding for public transport services and operations, and confirmed the rollout of the National Ticketing Solution (NTS) that will enable contactless debit and credit card payments starting this year in Auckland, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“This Government is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • GDP data shows need to strengthen and grow the economy
    GDP figures for the March quarter reinforce the importance of restoring fiscal discipline to public spending and driving more economic growth, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  Data released today by Stats NZ shows GDP has risen 0.2 per cent for the quarter to March.   “While today’s data is technically in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Women continue to make up over 50 per cent on public sector boards
    Women’s representation on public sector boards and committees has reached 50 per cent or above for the fourth consecutive year, with women holding 53.9 per cent of public sector board roles, Acting Minister for Women Louise Upston says. “This is a fantastic achievement, but the work is not done. To ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government supporting Māori business success
    The Coalition Government is supporting Māori to boost development and the Māori economy through investment in projects that benefit the regions, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka say. “As the Regional Development Minister, I am focused on supporting Māori to succeed. The Provincial Growth Fund ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Better solutions for earthquake-prone buildings
    Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk has announced that the review into better managing the risks of earthquake-prone buildings has commenced. “The terms of reference published today demonstrate the Government’s commitment to ensuring we get the balance right between public safety and costs to building owners,” Mr Penk says.  “The Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Prime Minister wraps up visit to Japan
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has just finished a successful three-day visit to Japan, where he strengthened political relationships and boosted business links. Mr Luxon’s visit culminated in a bilateral meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Kishida Fumio followed by a state dinner. “It was important for me to meet Prime Minister Kishida in person ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Major business deals signed on PM’s Japan trip
    Significant business deals have been closed during the visit of Prime Minister Christopher Luxon to Japan this week, including in the areas of space, renewable energy and investment.  “Commercial deals like this demonstrate that we don’t just export high-quality agricultural products to Japan, but also our world-class technology, expertise, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Strategic Security speech, Tokyo
    Minasan, konnichiwa, kia ora and good afternoon everyone. Thank you for the invitation to speak to you today and thank you to our friends at the Institute for International Socio-Economic Studies and NEC for making this event possible today.  It gives me great pleasure to be here today, speaking with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • National Infrastructure Pipeline worth over $120 billion
    The National Infrastructure Pipeline, which provides a national view of current or planned infrastructure projects, from roads, to water infrastructure, to schools, and more, has climbed above $120 billion, Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop says. “Our Government is investing a record amount in modern infrastructure that Kiwis can rely on as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Making it easier to build infrastructure
    The Government is modernising the Public Works Act to make it easier to build infrastructure, Minister for Land Information Chris Penk announced today. An independent panel will undertake an eight-week review of the Act and advise on common sense changes to enable large scale public works to be built faster and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ enhances North Korea sanctions monitoring
    New Zealand will enhance its defence contributions to monitoring violations of sanctions against North Korea, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today.  The enhancement will see the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) increase its contributions to North Korea sanctions monitoring, operating out of Japan. “This increase reflects the importance New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to Safeguard National Health and Safety Conference
    Good afternoon everyone. It’s great to be with you all today before we wrap up Day One of the annual Safeguard National Health and Safety Conference. Thank you to the organisers and sponsors of this conference, for the chance to talk to you about the upcoming health and safety consultation. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Ōtaki to north of Levin alliance agreements signed
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone for the Ōtaki to north of Levin Road of National Significance (RoNS), following the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) signing interim alliance agreements with two design and construction teams who will develop and ultimately build the new expressway.“The Government’s priority for transport ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Improvements to stopping Digital Child Exploitation
    The Department of Internal Affairs [Department] is making a significant upgrade to their Digital Child Exploitation Filtering System, which blocks access to websites known to host child sexual abuse material, says Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden.  “The Department will incorporate the up-to-date lists of websites hosting child sexual ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New vaccine research aims to combat prevalent bovine disease
    A vaccine to prevent an infectious disease that costs New Zealand cattle farmers more than $190 million each year could radically improve the health of our cows and boost on-farm productivity, Associate Agriculture Minister Andrew Hoggard says. The Ministry for Primary Industries is backing a project that aims to develop ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Making it easier to build granny flats
    The Government has today announced that it is making it easier for people to build granny flats, Acting Prime Minister Winston Peters and RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop say. “Making it easier to build granny flats will make it more affordable for families to live the way that suits them ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • High Court Judge appointed
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Auckland King’s Counsel Gregory Peter Blanchard as a High Court Judge. Justice Blanchard attended the University of Auckland from 1991 to 1995, graduating with an LLB (Honours) and Bachelor of Arts (English). He was a solicitor with the firm that is now Dentons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health workforce numbers rise
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says new data released today shows encouraging growth in the health workforce, with a continued increase in the numbers of doctors, nurses and midwives joining Health New Zealand. “Frontline healthcare workers are the beating heart of the healthcare system. Increasing and retaining our health workforce ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government to overhaul firearms laws
    Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee has today announced a comprehensive programme to reform New Zealand's outdated and complicated firearms laws. “The Arms Act has been in place for over 40 years. It has been amended several times – in a piecemeal, and sometimes rushed way. This has resulted in outdated ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government delivers landmark specialist schools investment
    The coalition Government is delivering record levels of targeted investment in specialist schools so children with additional needs can thrive. As part of Budget 24, $89 million has been ringfenced to redevelop specialist facilities and increase satellite classrooms for students with high needs. This includes: $63 million in depreciation funding ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Major health and safety consultation begins
    A substantial consultation on work health and safety will begin today with a roadshow across the regions over the coming months, says Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden.  This the first step to deliver on the commitment to reforming health and safety law and regulations, set out in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Growing the potential of New Zealand’s forestry sector in partnership
    Forestry Minister Todd McClay, today announced the start of the Government’s plan to restore certainty and confidence in the forestry and wood processing sector. “This government will drive investment to unlock the industry’s economic potential for growth,” Mr McClay says. “Forestry’s success is critical to rebuilding New Zealand’s economy, boosting ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government cancels forestry ETS annual service charges for 2023-24
    Annual service charges in the forestry Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) will be cancelled for 2023/24, Forestry Minister Todd McClay says. “The sector has told me the costs imposed on forestry owners by the previous government were excessive and unreasonable and I agree,” Mr McClay says. “They have said that there ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to the LGNZ Infrastructure Symposium
    Introduction Thank you for having me here today and welcome to Wellington, the home of the Hurricanes, the next Super Rugby champions. Infrastructure – the challenge This government has inherited a series of big challenges in infrastructure. I don’t need to tell an audience as smart as this one that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government boosts Agriculture and food trade with China
    Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay and Food Safety Minister Andrew Hoggard welcomed outcomes to boost agricultural and food trade between New Zealand and China. A number of documents were signed today at Government House that will improve the business environment between New Zealand and China, and help reduce barriers, including on infant formula ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • NZ and China launch Services Trade Negotiations
    Trade Minister Todd McClay, and China’s Commerce Minister Wang Wentao, today announced the official launch of Negotiations on Services Trade between the two countries.  “The Government is focused on opening doors for services exporters to grow the New Zealand’s economy,” Mr McClay says.  As part of the 2022 New Zealand-China Free Trade Agreement Upgrade ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-06-25T22:02:33+00:00