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Market not impressed with $30 Million payout

Written By: - Date published: 7:11 am, August 9th, 2013 - 89 comments
Categories: economy, energy, john key, Privatisation - Tags: , , , ,

Yesterday John Key gave $30 Million of tax payer’s money to Rio Tinto in order to prop up its electricity deal with Meridian – and thus to prop up his privatisation ideology. (I note in passing that Rio Tinto just posted a 6 monthly profit of $4.2bn, but I guess that every little bit helps).

Looks like the “wisdom” of the market was unimpressed – there was a spike in trading of Mighty River Power shares, and a 7c drop in share price. Smart investors getting out?

MRP-price-8-August-2013

89 comments on “Market not impressed with $30 Million payout ”

  1. Skinny 1

    Yes of course they are. Our power utilities sell off is still John Keys biggest 
    weakness. The opposition parties need to keep linking as much mud back to this point. Hone in on property and really own this hot issue. Hard hitting bad press like;

    Why the contradiction John Key? what sane mum & dad investor would buy power shares, when the returns on property are rising thru the roof? Come on Mr share market trader don’t tell us your’ve pumped and dumped your (‘our shares’).

     We will force this out of touch Government to ‘understand’ Kiwi’s want the house door firmly slammed shut, on greedy oversea’s investors currently putting our next generations out on the street. 

    And our coalition Government of forward thinking progressives, will brain storm a total overhaul on housing full stop, one that successive generations will be truly proud of.

    I think you all get the drift, back on song. When is the anti assets sales petition result coming out anyone know?             

    • srylands 1.1

      “Come on Mr share market trader don’t tell us your’ve pumped and dumped your (‘our shares’).”

      Just a reminder – all his shares are held in a blind trust. What you are suggesting could not have occurred.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1.1

        Just a reminder – he has a “seeing eye” trust that enables him to do exactly that. Didn’t you know?

        • Jim Nald 1.1.1.1

          “all his shares are held in a blind trust” with the “seeing eye”

          John Key’s blind trust means the public is kept blind to the shady operations of his trust.

          And people like srylands foolishly give him their blind trust.

          • felix 1.1.1.1.1

            srylands knows exactly how John Key’s trust network is set up.

            srylands is a liar, not a fool.

      • Skinny 1.1.2

        My banner hit a nerv did it Shrilly?

        Ok now let me think (all of a nano second) hmm wine..no not wine-box, that’s those other 2 money trader mates of his. Umm that’s right, forgetful Mr Share-Trader & his Xmas gifts to his rich masters, the ones who stumped up the loose change to buy the 2.2 million dollar new digs. You know… the one just up the road from the GCSB offices. Talk is, Transport Minister, Mr Who-Ate- All- Pork-Pies, has delayed the build of a Auckland rail tunnel, because Mr ST wants a tunnel to the GCSB HQ built first. Go figure…apparently something about his rights to privacy from the public eye.
        Anyway here is the ‘conflict of interest’ link to refresh you memory Shrilly. http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10647699

        • srylands 1.1.2.1

          “the 2.2 million dollar new digs”

          You mean the slightly run down unremarkable house in Thorndon? It is next door to the Ministry of Education, not the GCSB. It is two blocks away from GCSB. The tunnel would need to be a long one.

          • SpaceMonkey 1.1.2.1.1

            It’s about 100m away… not a long tunnel at all.

            • ghostwhowalksnz 1.1.2.1.1.1

              Will have a direct line of sight microwave link- its the fastest point to point.

              Just like Dotcomm had from his Coatesville house to the Sky tower

              Seriously though. the house will be used for meetings between donors and ministers.

              That way its off government premises and they can allways say – they arranged to meet but got delayed etc. Just like Peter Dunne said about his so called ‘missed’ meeting with Vance.

      • Mike S 1.1.3

        Hahaha, the only thing ‘blind’ would be you to the real world if you think he doesn’t know what his investments are.

      • Murray Olsen 1.1.4

        Sometimes you can be funny, sorryhands. This one was real ROFLMAO material.

        • srylands 1.1.4.1

          whatever Murray – you can ROFLYAO as you grow old watching electricity generators being privatised. Oh wait, I forgot the New Zealand Left has this sorted. It is the rest of the world that has it wrong.

          • Murray Olsen 1.1.4.1.1

            It was your touching faith in Key that I found funny. Your economic and social theories make me vomit.

            • srylands 1.1.4.1.1.1

              I don’t have any faith in any politician.

            • srylands 1.1.4.1.1.2

              “Your economic and social theories make me vomit.”

              Yes because you have a naive faith in the ability of governments to achieve higher living standards via regulation and control.

              • Murray Olsen

                You have some evidence to back up your claims? Have I written that somewhere? Or are you just making stuff up to justify your own character failings, much like your high priestess, the lovely Ayn Rand?

                • srylands

                  “Have I written that somewhere? Or are you just making stuff up to justify your own character failings”

                  I’m just making stuff up.

              • Colonial Viper

                Only governments can apply and enforce the regulation and control needed to balance societal and private sector needs.

                Not sure why you cannot see the obvious. You should stop going to neoliberal church for a while, methinks.

              • Skinny

                Speaking of Vomit Shrilly, Who were the mugs Joyce contracted to come up with the Nats conference catch cry- ‘Helping Families.’ Are they that cocky their now taking the piss, at the expense of the poor- including white, middle class, swing voters? Or was it simply a typo and should have read ‘Hurting Families.’ Seriously dumb slogan, the whole Country is thinking, actually, ‘that’s more National bullshit’, all this Government is doing, is ‘Helping Rich Families.’

                Classic-I hear big party donators the Talley family provided more than their quota of snapper for the gig. Don’t think Natan Guy will be eating fish, nor Key for that matter.

  2. srylands 2

    You need to get the context right. MRP shares have fallen by about 10% since the float, with about half of that being in line with the NZX index.

    MRP’s long term prospects still look good. The share price should trade around those fundamentals. The biggest regulatory risk remains the WM NZ Power plan. As the election nears you would expect to see some volatility as markets price in the likelihood of a Labour/WM win. I still maintain that NZ Power will never happen whatever.

    I think at $2.15 MRP would be a strong buy. I would be looking to increase my (modest) shareholding at that price. As a shareholder I would be relaxed with the price trading in the $2.00 – $2.30 range for the next year. If it cracked $2 I would reassess.

    I agree that the Rio Tinto subsidy was a bad idea. I would have preferred to see the smelter close fast. Meridian value would then have settled. We could then all have bought our Meridian shares with more certainty in the next float. I have not decided on a Meridian buy. I think it is wait and see.

    • vto 2.1

      Dontcha just love the way ownership of MRP has gone from all New Zealanders to just a few New Zealanders who are all srylandss and gosmanss

      fucked

    • richard 2.2

      What a load of meaningless twaddle. One thing you should ask your lecturers in econ101 is to teach you how to write plain English. Then you won’t have to rely on the jargon and slogans you copy and paste from your textbooks and back issues of the Economist.

    • tracey 2.3

      syrlands I thought your (and Nats and Act) iedology was government out of business. This looks like government is very much in this business (RIO Tinto) and giving our money away and yet you dont seem outraged. Especially as the parent of the smelter is LOADED. I say outraged because “not a good idea” is kind of “meh” and you dont seem worried provided you can profit from the share sale.

      • srylands 2.3.1

        I don’t think getting “outraged” by Government policies is healthy. Governments do many things I disagree with. I could be outraged all day.

        The subsidy is a bad idea. It is the left that has historically supported subsidy to industry. Last time I checked the Greens were in favour of tariff protection. Which is simply a transfer from consumers to business.

        So yes – it was a bad idea, along with 100 other bad things I could list.

        Selling Meridian is a good idea. I’m not going to stop buying shares. The really bad part of the sale process is that the Government is only selling 49% – it should be 100%. Inevitably a future governmnet will sell the remaining 51% of all the SOES now being partially floated.

        The irony is that many people I have discssed the sales with actually think the Government is selling 100% now! – so they may as well have.

        • Tracey 2.3.1.1

          you’ve come across quite emotional on other topics here though Sryland, so you have exhibited the ill health before. I’m glad you think it’s a bad idea but as long as you get the shares at a good price you don’t really care.

          I have no doubt you think outrage is unhealthy because it is outrage that leads to change and stops bad things happening. You’re a staus quo or “good old days” kind of a guy/gal I suspect.

          • srylands 2.3.1.1.1

            “You’re a staus quo or “good old days” kind of a guy/gal I suspect”

            No I am not. I do care. I have worked to change poor public policy for 30 years. The subsidy is a bad idea. But there are many other policy settings that are a higher priority becuse they are more costly. Just one example – removing the remaining 10% tariff on clothing and footwear would benefit lower income New Zealanders considerably. I don’t see the Left lobbying for this removal of a subsidy from consumers (especially lower income consuemrs) to the capitalist owners of clothing manufacturers, many of which are owned by Australians. Over the last decade this subsidy would certainly have exceeded $30 million.

            One moderating factor in the Rio Tinto subsidy is that it is one off.

            • vto 2.3.1.1.1.1

              “I have worked to change poor public policy for 30 years”

              there we go

              for all to see

              1984 to 2014

              hasn’t it gone well

              you confirm all suspicions

              no wonder you cannot see

              start again

              at the beginning

              people first

            • richard 2.3.1.1.1.2

              …removing the remaining 10% tariff on clothing and footwear would benefit lower income New Zealanders considerably.

              Haven’t heard that argument for years. As the only thing an economist has successfully predicted is what has happened in the past, let’s have a look at how tariff removal has worked in New Zealand:

              1. tariff makes imported goods more expensive
              2. tariff enables New Zealand employers to set up factories to make those goods and pay their employees at a rate where they can afford those goods.
              3. remove tariff
              4. low paid workers can now buy more imported goods
              5. low paid workers employer’s factories now can’t compete with imported goods
              6. factories close making low paid workers unemployed
              7. previously low paid workers are on unemployment benefit.

              Yep, tariff removal has been a great success in the past and there’s no reason why we shouldn’t continue with it.

              Edit: would be handy if we could put in bulletted lists

            • freedom 2.3.1.1.1.3

              ” I have worked to change poor public policy for 30 years.” after reading most of your slogan heavy potpurri that now malingers on the pages of The Standard, one could argue that you believe any policy that actually helps the public would fall under that category.

            • framu 2.3.1.1.1.4

              “I do care”

              then why are you so blind to the destruction and harm that your ideology inflicts on society?

              im calling either BS or deluded on that claim

            • Colonial Viper 2.3.1.1.1.5

              I love Shitlands continuing push for income deflation for ordinary people, and continuing upwards wealth redistribution.

              BTW Government is in the business of subsidies and wealth transfer, of getting things done that the private sector is either unwilling to, or unable to. That is one of the main reasons for government’s existence.

              Its also one of the main reasons that neolibs and corporates hate government (unless they are the ones receiving the wealth transfer).

              • srylands

                “continuing push for income deflation for ordinary people, and continuing upwards wealth redistribution”

                Really? I thought the consensus on this thread was that my MRP shares were going to end up worthless?

                “once Meridian shares are dumped on the marke tand (sic) the govt subsidy has gone (Tiwai will close) your MRP shares will be worth nothing”

                Looks like a plan for income deflation for the “rich” (sic)

                New Zealand can’t escape the trend of governments getting out of business. 20 years from now there won’t be any SOEs – all electricity generators will be privately owned (with majority foreign ownership unless we lift productivity).

                Even if the left get into government they can’t renationalise the privatised assets. So the politcial cycle will deliver a shrinking role for the state, even though change will come in spurts. As the population acquires shares, the consensus for further privatisation grows. The debate here now is exactly what we saw in Australia in the late 1980s. But it has now gone. Same will happen here.

                • McFlock

                  we’ll see.

                • freedom

                  “Even if the left get into government they can’t renationalise the privatised assets. ”

                  You confuse ‘can’t’ with ‘probably won’t’.
                  A government can nationalise anything it chooses to.
                  A government’s willingness to accommodate the repurcussions is the main factor seperating the two.

                  • felix

                    You mean a sovereign parliament doesn’t have to play by the rules set out according to srylands’ ideology?

                    Well fuck me.

                    • srylands

                      “You mean a sovereign parliament doesn’t have to play by the rules set out according to srylands’ ideology?”

                      Of course it can. But (back in the real world) it won’t.

                    • felix

                      If it’s a neoliberal fuckjob government, yeah.

                      Your delusion is that that’s the only type we’re ever going to have.

                    • srylands

                      “If it’s a neoliberal fuckjob government, yeah.”

                      No – whatever Government – won’t happen.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      For the moment mate, I agree. All the main political parties in the western world are pretty much right of centre, on the political economic spectrum.

                    • felix

                      I find your lack of imagination disturbing.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Looks like a plan for income deflation for the “rich” (sic)

                  The rich can afford it. And it better reflects their real contribution to society.

                  • srylands

                    “The rich can afford it. And it better reflects their real contribution to society.”

                    Bloody hell – whatever .. NZ probably has about 500 “rich” individuals. An annual income of $200,000 NZD certainly does not qualify close to being rich. Plus you have to work your arse off to maintain it. Plus you pay all the nation’s tax. If you have a couple of kids it requires careful budgeting to make it work.

                    • McFlock

                      ‘For just $547 a day, you can help Emmanuelle get taken to private school in a late model SUV, rather than a used car’…

                      Try raising a kid on a fifth or a tenth of that, and then talk about how life is such hell on $200k.p.a.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      An annual income of $200,000 NZD certainly does not qualify close to being rich.

                      It’s seven times above the country’s median income. So you can fuck off.

                      Plus you have to work your arse off to maintain it.

                      Ahhh, the “life is so hard” cry of the wealthy. Again, fuck off.

                      Plus you pay all the nation’s tax.

                      Hey shit for brains, I know a few thousand people who’d like to make $200K pa and pay all that tax on it too. Maybe if rich people want to pay less tax they should take less of the nation’s income share OK?

                      If you have a couple of kids it requires careful budgeting to make it work.

                      You really are a toff creep haha

                      PS fuck off

                    • srylands

                      “It’s seven times above the country’s median income.’

                      Misleading much? It is 4.6 times median income for those receiving income from wages and salaries.

                      http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/Income/nz-income-survey-info-releases.aspx

                      4.6 x the median hardly qualifies as “rich”.

                      So you fuck off.

                    • felix

                      “Misleading much? It is 4.6 times median income for those receiving income from wages and salaries.”

                      Yes, how misleading to include poor people in the calculation.

                      “4.6 x the median hardly qualifies as “rich”.”

                      lolz

                    • McFlock

                      Once again spylands gives us a glimpse into his fucked up little mind. Poor people don’t count and don’t even deserve to be counted.

                    • srylands

                      “Yes, how misleading to include poor people in the calculation.”

                      Why the fuck would you include people getting government transfers in the calculation??? Low paid workers are included.

                    • felix

                      Because we’re discussing how much more some have than others. What did you think we were talking about?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Hey srylands, as others have mentioned, nice of you to exclude the lowest income 2.25 million NZers in your quoted sadistics.

                      You really are a dick shit.

                    • srylands

                      “Hey srylands, as others have mentioned, nice of you to exclude the lowest income 2.25 million NZers in your quoted sadistics.”

                      Only those receiving government transfers are excluded. They are always going to be poor. No matter what happens to GDP growth. Because they are on welfare.

                    • tricledrown

                      Not easy being on $200,000 a year if you had universal benefits for families like the Mana party promotes it would be easier for you gooseman.

                    • felix

                      Ok srylands, but you also have to exclude all 4th 5th and 6th decile salary earners.

                      Because they’ll always be in the middle.

                      You.

                      Fucking.

                      Moron.

                    • McFlock

                      I’m somewhat horrifically fascinated as to what spylands would regard as “poor”.

                      Probably something like being forced to wear suits that cost less than a thousand dollars.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Off the rack, the fucking indignity of it all.

                    • srylands

                      “Ok srylands, but you also have to exclude all 4th 5th and 6th decile salary earners.”

                      Felix – You are the moron. Of course middle income salary earners will be in the middle but their incomes will grow in real terms with GDP if that GDP growth is driven by productivity improvements. Welfare is indexed to CPI.

                      So – if we get our policies right, real incomes might increase by 50% over the next 20 years. But welfare payments will not. They will simply increase by CPI.

                      You.

                      Fucking.

                      Moron.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Middle income salary earners are in the top 20% of NZers.

            • tricledrown 2.3.1.1.1.6

              goooose an election bribe to rescue failing asset sales with Tiwae will most likely shut down 1/2 its production, so their will be an over supply of power on the market reducing other power companies profits reducing their value for long term. Because the smelter will close in 2016 .Investors they are better waiting for mugs like You SCHRILGLANDS to buy them at full price. then buy them when the price has gone down by 10%!
              You have been duped by your own propaganda!

              • srylands

                “then buy them when the price has gone down by 10%!”

                You are deluded. You only lose money if you sell the shares now.

                If I keep these shares for the next 30 years it is the dividend stream that matters.

                I will buy some more at $2.15. So should you.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Funny how you support the “dividend stream” being transferred away from the commons to foreign investors and privateers.

    • “MRP’s long term prospects still look good. The share price should trade around those fundamentals.”

      It sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself, Sry?

      Don’t forget the market principle when there is an excess of a particular item. What happens to the price…?

  3. tricledrown 3

    Schrilands once Meridian shares are dumped on the marke tand the govt subsidy has gone (Tiwai will close) your MRP shares will be worth nothing
    Meridian are selling power for less than cost causing losses so you bought MRP shares and have lost 10%+ you are a politically Naive dumbarse Troollle Gooosseeman.
    That is the level of National party supporter!
    The partial self off of power companies is over any investor in their Right mind would be looney to part with money!
    Schrilands subsidizing the National parties asset fire sale!

    • srylands 3.1

      “any investor in their Right mind would be looney to part with money!”

      I predict the Meridian float will be over-subscribed.

      • fender 3.1.1

        Dream on, One News did a poll and found a whopping 3% were interested in buying shares.

        • srylands 3.1.1.1

          It said 3% of people are very likely to invest, with another 11% saying they are quite likely. Even 3% is plenty enough when you add in the institutions

          So I repeat – it will be over-subscribed by a very big margin.

          • vto 3.1.1.1.1

            and so too is 3% of foreign landlords being banned plenty enough to have a market effect.

            • Skinny 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Yes quite right vto, that’s the point. Shrill & his gullible 2 bob-tory mates have been sold a pup for the time being Too much blind faith in their share trading leader.  Now don’t try tell us it’s not a contradiction, the market is too small here to have both competing successfully. So what’s it going to be… power shares or property? Of course it’s property as gutless Key won’t fair up the property market. So what’s a share investors to do, because it concerns a slab of your money? Your’ve pretty much said it! Slink out of the polling booth in 2014, having party voted Labour (never admitting it), justified insurance will keep your conscious at ease.

          • fender 3.1.1.1.2

            Doesn’t matter how many times you repeat the same crap, 3% is a sad result (MRP is lower than that). But it suits National to have only 3% benefiting from this wealth transfer scam.

          • tracey 3.1.1.1.3

            I agree with srylands, in that it wont have trouble selling, but it wont be the mums and dads we were promised for nearly 6 years…

          • framu 3.1.1.1.4

            so 49% NZ ownership transferred to 3% global ownership

            thats just fucking magic innit

            • framu 3.1.1.1.4.1

              ok – that doesnt actually come out the way i meant – but you get the idea

          • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.5

            So I repeat – it will be over-subscribed by a very big margin.

            And that’s a measure of what? How greedy the capitalists are combined with how impotent they are at creating their own billion dollar assets that they have to nick ones from the commons.

      • tracey 3.1.2

        but not by mums and dads.

  4. Raymond a Francis 4

    The workers (you know the people who vote left) in Invercargill are happy to have their jobs even if the market doesn’t like the payout

    • tracey 4.1

      yup, self interest prevails all round, the right doesn’t have that to themselves.

      I assume there is no guarantee to have those jobs for say 10 years?

      • idlegus 4.1.1

        reported this morning on radio nz is that an announcement is expected next week where the number of job losses from tiwai point will come out. the restructuring that has been going on already, so at the moment up to 800 people are employed there (not 3000 that keeps getting repeated on tv3 & elsewhere), & job losses are expected to number in the 100s, a very shonky deal for nz.

        as an aside, nz post will be announcing their 3 day week sometime in the near future, that will be half the staff made redundant & there are actually 1000s of employees at nz post, will national come to their rescue? i doubt it. even though they can help kiwibank by throwing them some work instead of it all going to westpac.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 4.2

      So its too big to fail – again.

      Too bad for all the other smaller factories getting the chop. They dont happen to be in or near Bill Englishs electorate

    • Foreign Waka 4.3

      Yes, and anybody who has half a heart will feel with the people. Still, I think this is an election ploy as more job losses should not loom large on peoples minds (via the news, press etc).

  5. infused 5

    Well National have played this one smart.

    If the opposition attack this, then you have ‘think of the workers argument’. Which is bad for the left, since you are meant to be the workers party. Opens the left up for a National attack.

    However, personally, I think this was stupid. They were not going to go, maybe in a few years, but not now.

  6. SpaceMonkey 6

    So when are the Rio Tinto CEO and Board being drug tested? Presumably before they receive their handout…

  7. Huginn 7

    Some background on Rio Tinto’s thinking here, from the Financial Times. It seems that:

    Rio has been trying to divest Pacific Aluminium, which comprises high cost smelters in New Zealand and Australia and an alumina refinery, for almost two years.

    It is one of several assets that Rio has put on the block as it looks to reduce net debt of $22bn and retain its single-A credit rating.

    Rio’s debt burden is a legacy of its disastrously timed acquisition of Alcan. The miner paid $38bn for the Canadian company in 2007 just as the financial crisis hit and demand from industrial users slumped. Impairments have now eaten away at some $20-$25bn of the purchase price.

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ffcdfab6-ffec-11e2-9c40-00144feab7de.html#axzz2bIvEApxM

    • bad12 7.1

      Listening to Bernard Hickey on RadioNZ national just now i think it might be a long long wait for Rio Tinto if they now plan on holding onto the Tiwai point smelter until demand and prices pick up to pre-2007 levels,

      The Chinese have according to Bernard got enough smelting capacity for aluminum coming on stream in the next four years which will make Rio Tinto’s output look insignificant,

      i would suggest that (sadly), the people of Invercargill had better prepare for the smelters total closure sometime in the next 5 years,

      The Government of course could ensure the future of the smelter by offering Rio Tinto a few bucks for it having already dropped 30 million as a deposit…

  8. tracey 8

    Lol @ remove tariff to help the poor. The warehouse was responsible for more job losses than it created by bringing cheap stuff in.

    if you believe even half of what you write it must be cold in your shoes.

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