National’s lies, damn lies and statistics on housing

43 comments on “National’s lies, damn lies and statistics on housing ”

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1. Richardrawshark 1

   9 June 2016 at 10:10 am

   Can’t help people who won’t fight for themselves. I’m sorry starting to get to the point that perhaps the hardships not enough yet for them to stand up and protest.

   Do they expect everyone else to fight for them. If your homeless perhaps move to Wellington and sleep at the beehive. maybe the smell will insight action by National.

   😛

   I know it’s harsh but I am perplexed at the state of the Nation yet no ones doing squat.
   • leftie 1.1

     9 June 2016 at 10:32 am

     The National government is a massive part of the problem, it doesn’t serve it’s agenda to do anything about it. When are people going to realize that National has no intention whatsoever of fixing the problem it is actively fostering.
     The only way to start tackling this crisis, that in the face of it, National vehemently denies, is to get rid of the National government. Kick National out of office. Until that happens, expect the crisis to get worse.
     • TC 1.1.1

       9 June 2016 at 10:58 am

       Youre too kind, working as designed by national and their choices.

       Migration based on money, sod any character tests
       No cgt
       No restrictions on foreign housing ownership
       Tax free funding facilitation
       Potray house prices as ‘proof’ of economic growth
       Dysfunctional supercity undermined by nactiod nimby’ers
       • leftie 1.1.1.1

         9 June 2016 at 12:10 pm

         +1 TC.
       • D'Esterre 1.1.1.2

         9 June 2016 at 9:45 pm

         TC: “Migration based on money, sod any character tests
         No cgt
         No restrictions on foreign housing ownership”

         The banks have front-footed the issue, it seems. Perhaps they tired of waiting for the gummint to do owt? Or more likely, they’ve looked at the bottom line and decided that the game isn’t worth the candle.

         http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80840914/first-home-buyers-will-benefit-from-tougher-investors-lending-rules–canstar
     • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2

       9 June 2016 at 11:40 am

       The only way to start tackling this crisis, that in the face of it, National vehemently denies, is to get rid of the National government.

       Thing is, we’re not seeing anything from Labour Greens about doing anything about it either. Well, nothing more than tinkering at the edges. They know as well as National that dropping house prices by 87%, which is how much they need to be dropped by, will ensure that they only have one term in power and one term just isn’t long enough to even start undoing the damage that National has done.

       So, they’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. The only thing that they can do is to stop house prices rising while ensuring wages rise and return to capital decreases.
       • leftie 1.1.2.1

         9 June 2016 at 12:08 pm

         Disagree Draco T Bastard. Labour and the Greens both have polices to tackle this, and both parties have been talking about it for quite some time now. Rather a government made up of the opposition with a plan, than the dismal, self serving failure, that is the current “don’t want to do anything” National government.
       • NZJester 1.1.2.2

         9 June 2016 at 1:31 pm

         The problem with the opposition releasing plans to early is that National borrows some of the ideas. They then nurf it to it is ineffectual and then says, see we tried their idea and it failed to work!
         • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.2.1

           9 June 2016 at 4:51 pm

           +1

           Yep. Seen that happen time and again. Seen National twist ideas so that they become another subsidy from the poor to the rich as well.
   • M. Gray 1.2

     9 June 2016 at 11:03 am

     No they don’t expect everyone else to fight for them they expect to be treated fairly and like human beings. The best thing they can do is be encouraged to vote if need be take them to vote I do this with my family but they need a physical address to get welfare and to receive voting papers
   • The New Student 1.3

     9 June 2016 at 12:06 pm

     Can we not start a movement or do whatever it is people did way back when
     • McFlock 1.3.1

       9 June 2016 at 1:19 pm

       I was thinking about that a wee while ago, the lack of mass protests on issues that were unthinkable when I was a teen.

       Part of it’s the slow conditioning over the last thirty years to accept TINA and greed as natural, even necessary.

       But also the war on unions (labour unions and student unions). Those groups acted as some organisational focal points for community leadership.

       Now, back when those groups started, conditions were much worse – both in occupational safety and in general conditions.

       Thinking on the recent Dunedin hospital protests (both food and neurology), the protests had legitimacy from the support of the city council representatives. I think that gave them a lot of weight and the organisational clout to really pull it off (the logistics of march permits, getting people there without picking the one day nobody can go, street closures, liaison with the cops, all that jazz – even knowing where to get a loudhailer). Back in my student days, the association had some institutional knowledge on how to do that stuff, in addition to the placard painting workshops 🙂 . I assume the unions have had similar capabilities.

       There’s hope – people are getting better at organising stuff, and the fizzbook helps. And more people are looking for general change – there are hardworking grassroots activists spending huge amounts of time off their own bat on the Radio NZ funding issue or the hospital food problem, for example. They’re learning how to do it, and sharing their regained knowledge with others.
       • jcuknz 1.3.1.1

         9 June 2016 at 5:14 pm

         My wife has sadly been in DPH several times over the past months and finds the food good wholesome and just what a sick person needs … balance that with her room-mate who thinks the Compass food is disgusting rubbish.
         I guess they are both right but with different expectations.
         • Stuart Munro 1.3.1.1.1

           9 June 2016 at 5:18 pm

           It could be true – but equally your wife may be objectively wrong. What do the dietitians say?
           • McFlock 1.3.1.1.1.1

             9 June 2016 at 5:35 pm

             90% of the junior doctors aren’t impressed by it either. They think it’s worse than what they’d previously been fed at their random and long hours of work.
   • G C 1.4

     10 June 2016 at 12:37 am

     I think that’s a little unfair considering the Labour and Green Party supporters have been crying out against homelessness and housing affordability for the past 8 years.

     Such supporters are looking to give Labour and the Greens a second chance. Less complaining about the disenfranchised and struggling who expend all their energies just scratching out a living.

     The struggle is real for most Kiwis, more effort from those elected to represent the working classes, rather than distain and resentment. What we are seeing is if the Left listen and articulate the needs of us Kiwis, we will get behind a change of government.
2. save nz 2

   9 June 2016 at 10:28 am

   @ Richardrawshark When you are living in an old van with 6 kids while working – hard to rise up.

   But personally feel there is a movement of discontent gathering for change.
   • leftie 2.1

     9 June 2016 at 10:47 am

     Yes, and it’s not just the tragic consequences of the crisis itself, I think National’s arrogant denials, it’s lying and deceiving lipservice to the nation in the face of this undeniable ever growing crisis, is garnering a lot of hostility and angst.
     • WILD KATIPO 2.1.1

       9 June 2016 at 8:30 pm

       The question then is… how many of us like a liar / like being lied to ?

       The answer is not many among us.

       And it is this that is the greatest asset for a rejuvenated Labour / Greens alliance in the form of the MOU. There will be mistakes made, some blunders… but at the very heart of it all is peoples innate yearning for honesty/ integrity.

       No one likes being lied to. And those that support a liar/ lie do so to protect their own self interests. And that is a powerful motive for many.

       Yet, the majority have no respect for being lied to… it will have consequences… the trick is harnessing that anger. And that is where credibility , honesty and integrity is the Lefts greatest asset. If they don’t present that and divulge into political mind gaming, and just turning out to being more of the same… any grand notion of ‘changing the govt ‘ just becomes a hollow and self defeating exercise. This MOU is going to be a hard road.

       It’ll have to be both constantly standing on the moral high ground and providing a pragmatic solution at the same time . It isn’t going to be easy , and the only way I can see it working is if there is constant consultation and honest appraisals carried out on a regular basis between the two . It is just so easy for negative outside influences to infiltrate and subvert any fledgling movement – particularly in this biased MSM environment.
3. linda 3

   9 June 2016 at 10:44 am

   National and the country went all ont in houseing speculation it the money tap of imigration is turned off the whole mess collapses along with the economy and the national government
   You. Cant flick the switch off. On aponzi scheme. And these wankers. Really have screwed us over
   • jcuknz 3.1

     9 June 2016 at 5:21 pm

     Since housing takes time to build, I have built a couple in my spare time, if the government started a building program of reasonable proportions the bubble would slowly ease away with luck or at least not increase the way ‘ do little or nothing’ generates. Building 40 a day, or completing them, unless at reasonable prices or reasonable rentals will not solve anything.
     • Pat 3.1.1

       9 June 2016 at 8:35 pm

       even the announcement of a large scale state housing project would negatively impact prices and cause an exit for many…..its bloody hard to gently deflate a bubble.
4. Enviro Gal 4

   9 June 2016 at 10:49 am

   —–and you add a smiley face to that to that negative comment [Richardrawshark]
   Some people don’t seem to have enough to do !
   A well researched story ROB.
   Surely refusing to recognize rising poverty and homelessness is the end of the line
   and people will get out and vote for a new government next year.
   There are new houses being built out here Orewa/Millwater but as you have noted the high prices put them out of reach of more than half of the population.
   Who are the buyers ? new immigrants, overseas buyers, will try and find out.
   • WILD KATIPO 4.1

     9 June 2016 at 7:54 pm

     ‘ Surely refusing to recognize rising poverty and homelessness is the end of the line
     and people will get out and vote for a new government next year.’

     ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

     Ask yourself this:

     How far can human beings be pushed?… you agree neo liberalism by its very nature seeks to create an elite class and a mass pool of unemployed/ low paid workers…

     Now… throw aside all prejudices of what I’m about to say and take for example the ‘ untouchable’ class of India… or in fact the caste system itself. Translate that for a religious hierarchical system into a secular one…

     What therefore is the difference?… besides one being historic and the other being a modern mechanism to enslave… for the benefit of the few. And although eastern stoicism is entrenched… what about the historic English feudal system … or that of feudal Japan?

     These cultures survived for hundreds of years enforcing those societal divides through force, belief systems and simply … personal self interest. And all using various tools in various guises to enact governmental policy’s.

     If we think for one moment we can throw open the doors and expect the milk of human kindness to suddenly burst forth as a spring from those who have allowed / been conditioned to think not of the social good , but to deny democracy, to place the individual on a pedestal above all others… to view others as a stepping stone, a unit, a commodity with which to use… we place ourselves at a disadvantage…

     And it is for this very reason we have laws and regulations… to moderate the excesses of those who would work against the common good for personal self interests… if we think for a moment that these will have a sudden pang of consciousness , that they will see their error and become full fledged philanthropists overnight.. we will be disappointed.

     This weaning of people off the mentality of speculation and exploitation is going to be a long, hard process… it took neo liberal lies 32 years to permeate this culture… why should we think it will take anything less to unlearn this self centered thinking in a mere one or two terms of a true social democratic govt?

     We are all in this for the long haul . And much must be relearned.
5. RedLogix 5

   9 June 2016 at 11:56 am

   Great article r0b .. and thanks for all the research.

   You absolutely nail the crucial point here: It takes no account of the risk (how screwed you are when interest rates go up)

   For those who follow Steven Keen this is the aspect that sticks out most vividly. Because while National can afford to electorally ignore the homeless, the families in vans and garages, young people still living with parents and little prospects of leaving, and desperate renters … this risk to homeowners if and when interest rates rise will hit hardest on their electoral heartland.

   Almost no-one properly evaluates or prices this risk, nor the handcuffs it places on government and fiscal policy.
   • Sabine 5.1

     9 June 2016 at 12:00 pm

     the logic seems to be voting for National again so as to prevent this “interest going up” scenario from preventing.
     same reason as last election people voted for National so as to not end up with a Capital Gains Tax, and more houses – as was and still is labour policy – would have ruined the property value.

     Greed,fear and fiscal stupidity. A very ugly and lethal combination.
     • RedLogix 5.1.1

       9 June 2016 at 1:11 pm

       Well if nothing else it becomes a powerful propaganda tool … get everyone deeply in debt and then play the “Labour will make interest rates rise” card.

       One thing is absolutely certain … John Key understands this idea very, very well.
6. Richardrawshark 6

   9 June 2016 at 12:21 pm

   -Enviro Gal it was a toungue actually look at it again. you know : and P didn’t come out looking like a tongue so I forgive you../sarc

   The gist of what I was implying went right over the argumentative ones heads.

   Why is there No action?, I’m here and bloody ready to fight for what’s right and nothings happening, at what point do people start complaining?, as they are heading into the gas chamber?
7. Enviro Gal 7

   9 June 2016 at 12:52 pm

   I accept your response @ Richardrawshark
   Poor people have limited options [going to Wellington?]
   and we need more people with understanding working for a better society.
   One where children in poverty get education and opportunities.
   Does anyone think that this government is supporting our good education system
   well ! not me.
8. mikes 8

   9 June 2016 at 4:06 pm

   Another thing i noticed about that Massey study that Smith is using is that they used the average income against the median house price. Why do thy not use median income against median house price.

   Someone suggested it’s because the average house price is dragged up by very expensive properties. But surely the same is true for income in that very high incomes drag the average up, hence the average is always much higher than the median.

   Surely median v median is a much more accurate indicator? (or average v average for that matter)
9. Ad 9

   9 June 2016 at 4:07 pm

   Westpac and ANZ will now no longer lend to foreign buyers:

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11653623

   All other banks expected to follow suit.
   When even the foreign banks accept Labour was right from the beginning, you know you’ve got a market crisis on your hands.

   Everyone: lower your mortgages as fast as you freaking can, and hold on.
   • b waghorn 9.1

     9 June 2016 at 4:12 pm

     Load of PR dribble. I bet they lend sfa to overseas buyers.Its the banks that drive house prices . Banks are the no1 cause of rising house prices.
     • Ad 9.1.1

       9 June 2016 at 4:25 pm

       The banks will be commenting on this tonight and tomorrow, so you can figure out whether it’s PR or not, and make your own judgement.
     • Richardrawshark 9.1.2

       9 June 2016 at 4:28 pm

       Exactly foreign speculators will have their own foreign bank for logics sake.

       Why would they borrow in Zn when where they are they have their own bank manager, sounds like a PR stunt. Free advertising and trying to change the perception they are all for their aussie masters.
       • b waghorn 9.1.2.1

         9 June 2016 at 5:41 pm

         Why would you pay 4% in nz when you can get .5% elswhere
         • tangled_up 9.1.2.1.1

           9 June 2016 at 6:07 pm

           From the article:

           The majority of non-resident, overseas-based buyers would take out New Zealand bank loans for purchases here, unless they paid cash, Mr Patten said.

           “Most banks around the world won’t take security in a country other than their own…it is going to cut any overseas purchases out. They are either going to have to pay cash or have somebody in New Zealand purchase for them.”
           • Richardrawshark 9.1.2.1.1.1

             9 June 2016 at 8:01 pm

             -tangled_up, cheers mate didn’t know that. Ok, it may be effective then. I must be in sceptic mode from so much BS lately. My Bad.
   • Debbie 9.2

     9 June 2016 at 8:42 pm

     I suspect the banks have taken this stance, not in order to ‘correct’ the market but purely to protect themselves.

     When the market crashes, an overseas borrower can default and it’s near-impossible to recover the borrowings from abroad. A NZ-based borrower, however, can be pursued for their debt.
10. hoom 10

    9 June 2016 at 7:21 pm

    Does BLIP keep the Long List of Lies up on a website somewhere?

    Not that the Gre/bour campaign should focus on it but it’d be nice to be able to drop a URL from time to time when people deny there is any proof that Key is a lying sack of shit.
    • Richardrawshark 10.1

      9 June 2016 at 8:07 pm

      They are currently working on a quantum computer to process it. If we could just get DR Nick to STFU for five minutes we’d get enough of a break in the bullshit to run a analysis.
11. Paul 11

    9 June 2016 at 8:40 pm

    Looks like the banks are taking the housing crisis more seriously than the government.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/306011/rbnz-considers-property-investor-crackdown
    • tc 11.1

      10 June 2016 at 6:57 am

      Talk is cheap, we see a lot of that, whitewash inquiries, toothless measures, engineered recommendations etc. Cue a working group of nactiods and bankstas to kick this down the road.

      Banks never lose, they know a correction is inevitable but till then there’s money to be made and properties to foreclose on when it does happen.
12. Jack Ramaka 12

    10 June 2016 at 6:59 am

    With land prices getting so high it is not economic to build low cost housing, rat boxes in Auckland going for $1.0 million, hence you are really just buying land value, it has been one big Ponzi Scheme fuelled by the Banks, Asian Investment, limited land supply, council building restrictions and Government Tax Policies which favour residential investment over other investment classes?

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