If you still need to be persuaded about New Zealand’s homeless crisis …

Written By: - Date published: 8:52 am, June 9th, 2016 - 153 comments
Categories: housing, john key, national, paula bennett, radio, same old national - Tags: ,

Paula Bennett John key

Then you should watch last night’s Campbell Live.

John Campbell and Co are really hitting their strides. They investigate real issues and let ordinary New Zealanders tell the story in their own words without embellishment. It is so refreshing to actually be given an insight into what is happening without the presenter bombarding you with ill informed world views a la Paul Henry and Mike Hosking.

Last night’s presentation of the plight of an 11 year old called “TA” was stunning. It laid out in very simple terms what it means to a young woman when her family are homeless.

The video is a must watch.

A series of tweets from Checkpoint summed up the absurdity of the situation and the tragedy of TA’s plight.

TA could have a great future.  She is clearly bright.  Despite the upheaval caused by living in their car she almost won a scholarship to attend St Cuthberts College.  She gets her homework done in the office where her mother works (yes homeless people include those with jobs).  At night they just drive around and eat takeaways.  She does not like this because she cannot read.

Her family now stay at Te Puea Marae and she thinks it is great. Life is returning to some sort of normality for her.

There are no doubt thousands of other children like TA and you have to wonder at the devastation being caused to their lives.

What is the Government doing? Apart from lying about how MSD staff went around with the Salvation Army and knocked on car windows of homeless people who refused help and talking about booking hotel rooms very little.  Despite what John Key said it appears that the “flying squads” had only one wing.  There were no MSD officials involved to add to the other discrepancies that have previously been identified.

The first Labour Government had the solution. Build houses, lots of houses. This Government is unable to even contemplate this because it would actually require the Government to do something proactive.  Even if the cost is the blighting of the future of young people like TA.

153 comments on “If you still need to be persuaded about New Zealand’s homeless crisis …”

  1. save nz 1

    Heartbreaking stuff.

    Remember John Key’s election stunt with Aroha. TC doesn’t even have a state house in a ‘bad’ street after 8 years of John Key’s government. She lives in a van she shares with 8 people and her mother is working!

    Is that progress?

  2. Sabine 2

    i was pretty much in tears listening to this yesterday. This girl puts the whole National Party at shame. All their posturing about people not trying hard enough, being hopeless, unemployeable and such is just bullshit they make up to make themselves feel special. I doubt that Ms. Bennett would be were she is today if she would have had to actually do without the Domestic Purpose Benefit and any of the other governmental financial aides she received when she was a single non working mother, and later when she went to University receiving Allowances and help from the government to buy her own first home.

    In saying that, please pretty pretty please can we all agree that 11 year old girls are not young women. She is 11. She is a kid. Please change your wording accordingly.

    • leftie 2.1

      Many +1’s Sabine.

    • Paul 2.2

      Taking your words for a face book post – similar can be said of John Key.

    • mickysavage 2.3

      Hi Sabine

      I chose the description because I was so impressed by her maturity and the way she handled the questions. She is clearly mature beyond her years.

      • Sabine 2.3.1

        MS, reading this one does not get the idea that we are talking about a child here. No matter how ‘mature’ she comes across she is a child. Heck she is not allowed to drive, drink, vote, have a boyfriend, go out at evening time etc etc etc .
        A young women can do most if not all of these things.

        Call her a child that is mature beyond her years. Ok. But at 11 years old she is a child. Not even a teen. A child.

    • True she is a child,… and a bright one at that… but ,… apart from being talented academically , in a few years she will need her own space , … how many were having to live this way? … quite a big family group… which demonstrates even more graphically this immoral – yes, – immoral govt !

      That they would do this to a family… let alone how many other siblings who will be like TA in that family… and even if they were not?… how dare this govt treat our fellow citizens this way?

      How dare they !!!!

      And I can never get this from my mind as I see more and more of cases just like these….

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10468960/Aroha-of-McGehan-Close-flees-NZ

      Nothings changed under Key – its just got a lot worse.

      Fuck John Keys bullshit ideas of a ‘ brighter future’.

      Its all bullshit and lies from the top down.

      Believe it.

  3. Tiger Mountain 3

    heh, “Campbell Live”–many still call Checkpoint by that name and long may it last, I put the TV on channel 50 and let it roll

    non grandstanding, breathtaking journalism from JC resulted with this dirty filthy tory government being shamed yet again

    we could do with an “NZ Bernie” at the moment, not as ‘saviour’ but as a spark

    • leftie 3.1

      Yes, but lets use the opposition that we have now. National has to go, and go now.

    • Gangnam Style 3.2

      Channel 50 here too for Johns show, can’t keep a good man down. & I cannot understand why people will watch Henry/Hoskings berate them & laugh at them & treat their viewers like shit.

  4. jcuknz 4

    I happened by chance to hear TA and was disgusted that this could happen in ‘God’s own country’
    Along with a woman describing the hopelessness of being poor and being intelligent knowing she was making the wrong choices [ of smoking] but what the heck, it kept her going.
    sorry I didn’t keep the link but it was more to confirm me that we need more for these people. Aas one case manager put it at KB todayThere are the needy and the greedy and also a lot who simply do not know they are stupid.

  5. BM 5

    Is this the family that’s already been offered three state houses?

    • vto 5.1

      It is the family that works a decent days work but doesn’t receive wages sufficient to support itself.

      That is worse than slavery.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      It is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to keep a slave.

      • BM 5.1.1

        How much is the family getting a week with WFF.

        • vto 5.1.1.1

          That’s the problem with right wing thinking – you haven’t got a clue what the right questions are

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1.1

            “Right wing thinking” is an oxymoron. How much thought do you need to put into rote-learning a pack of lies?

            • marty mars 5.1.1.1.1.1

              +1 bm wins ‘the biggest loser’ beating bennett and key because at least they don’t pretend to care about anyone other than themselves

        • save nz 5.1.1.2

          @BM clearly not enough to afford a rental property in Auckland for 8 people.

          I put 6+ bedrooms into Trade me and only got 6 properties in the entire Auckland available – the prices ranged from $690 – $1150 per week. A person on minimum wages is on approx $610 p/w less taxes. However the $690 place was in Glorit so you would have to factor in Petrol and commuting to work which could be costing a lot with an old van. The rent of the house was over a week of work for a minimum wage worker. Then you have to factor in food, electricity, petrol, maintenance, clothes, school fees etc etc

          I put in 5 bedrooms and got 20 additional properties ranging from $590 (but just a short term let) in Rodney to $3000 per week.

          I put in 4 bedrooms and got 87 properties however the cheap ones were not in Auckland and the cheapest in Auckland were $540 p/w in Rodney to $3000 p/w.

          Most landlords would refuse to house 8 people in a place that was only 3 bedrooms due to overcrowding. So 3 bedrooms or under would be out.

          But National’s answer is to add more people to Auckland! Not everyone agrees this is the right approach!

          http://sciblogs.co.nz/the-dismal-science/2016/05/28/heralds-wrongheaded-call-ever-bigger-population/

        • tophat 5.1.1.3

          Heart wrenching story, i cried my eyes out.

          @Bm My wife and I discussed your type last night.
          We wondered how many of these horror stories it would take before you had to man up and admit that you can no longer support this evil regime. The question turned to all those Natz supporters whom to stand up and take their leaders falls. How often can you make ugly little snips at poor homeless people. How many ignorant unfounded posts do you make before you feel sick to your stomach and just can’t sleep at night? Do you sleep at night?
          or is it you just don’t believe a word you type?
          I kind of feel sorry for you, I’d hate to be plagued with the sick bitter mind that the likes of you are stricken with.

          • leftie 5.1.1.3.1

            +10000000… Well said Tophat.

          • BM 5.1.1.3.2

            Jesus, talk about hysterical, why are you lefties always so over the top.?

            I only asked how much WFF are they getting.

          • Paul 5.1.1.3.3

            I wonder if people start dying in cars…will bm and fisiani still defend the governments housing policies.
            Immoral. They have been poisoned by greed, selfishness and cruelty.

            • Tom 5.1.1.3.3.1

              Tom, sweetheart, you are going to be standing on your ‘own’.

              You need someone suitable to stand with you, someone much much better than david, someone who is actually intelligent, progressive, and brilliant.

              david is an idiot, he isn’t good enough and he has no leadership abilities.

              You need ‘the best’.

        • leftie 5.1.1.4

          No one could ever accuse you of having compassion, empathy and intelligence BM. What an ugly troll you are.

        • Sabine 5.1.1.5

          @BM 5.1.1
          9 June 2016 at 9:38 am
          How much is the family getting a week with WFF.

          This family will get the same amount via WFF as any other family with working parents and 6 children would get.

          If you have an issue with families receiving WFF you should address this issue with the National Party, the National Party led Government and the National Party Ministers of Parliament. They are the ones that had 8 years to abolish WFF and for some unknown reason so far have failed to do so.

          I suggest you try a different avenue to slander and belittle this family, WFF is law, and everyone that fits the criteria gets it.

          • BM 5.1.1.5.1

            This family will get the same amount via WFF as any other family with working parents and 6 children would get.

            Which is how much?, do you know?

            • Sabine 5.1.1.5.1.1

              http://www.workingforfamilies.govt.nz/tax-credits/

              Working for Families Tax Credits
              Working for Families is a package designed to help make it easier for you to work and raise a family.

              Working for Families Tax Credits are made up of four types of payments – family tax credit, in-work tax credit, minimum family tax credit and parental tax credit. You may qualify for one or more, depending on your personal situation.

              Inland Revenue explains these payments on their website:

              How much you can earn and receive Working for Families Tax Credits
              If your family income before tax is less than the amounts shown in the table, you may qualify for a payment. The amounts are based on your eldest child being aged 15 years or under and all other children being aged 12 years or under. If you have older children, you may be able to earn more and still be eligible.

            • WILD KATIPO 5.1.1.5.1.2

              I wonder also… does WINZ require a permanent address to be entitled to WFF?… in which case…as they and other family’s cant even afford the rent for a large family… yet still pay taxes… but have to live in cars in order to survive, which immediately disqualifies them from the so called benefits…

              It would seem there is something unfair going on… and… unless one wants to regress to eugenics and offer up the solution of ‘only the rich can afford to have children ‘ … one should duly shut ones mouth… to which we see that the pathetic wages offered are a mockery of any decent lifestyle… in John Keys ‘ brighter future’…

              And wages being neglected in the equation… and that neo liberals desire a pool of the unemployed and the working poor to gain their corporate welfare from… it would suggest that either wages come up ,… or rents come down…

              So which then would you have it , BM… if you don’t want to be perceived as a sadistic advocate of eugenics or a miserable bastard that wishes to hold your hand out for corporate welfare?

        • Anno1701 5.1.1.6

          you ever claimed WFF BM ?

          if you did you know most families give up after the IRD continually get it wrong ad you end up with a massive tax bill every year

          its just not worth it

          i stopped claiming it years ago

          • Gangnam Style 5.1.1.6.1

            Same here Anno1701, we were always ending up owing 1000s a year because our pay rates would be calculated either 2 low or 2 high, now we do without.

    • we do know bm that this family didn’t get their window tapped as john flea and paula bereft said – cos they just made up complete bullshit to hide their inaction and utter contempt for the poor and destitute living in fucking cars and vans. Your hero john key is just like you – a loser with no moral compass, a sad shitsack of a person who laughs at others misfortune.

    • Infused 5.3

      Yep… the one that won’t move.

    • Paul 5.4

      Defending the indefensible.

  6. vto 6

    It is a shameful indictment on John Key and his politics.

    It is a shameful indictment on National Party supporters.

    Terrible. Shame shame shame

    And there is Wayne, busy commenting on another thread about US elections, completely ignoring this situation in his backyard. Wayne is the classic National Party supporter who doesn’t give a shit – as evidenced by his actions and inactions. Shame Wayne, shame

    You are a terrible person for supporting this type of government

  7. Brian 7

    Well done John Campbell, well done Te Puea Marae and best wishes to T.A. and those others in similar circumstances.

    Shame on you John Key.

  8. dv 8

    The interesting note this post is the BOTH those in the picture have had the states help to get up.

    • leftie 8.1

      Very true that DV, they wouldnt be where they are today if it hadn’t of been for the government support they received.

  9. fisiani 9

    According to The Minister of Housing
    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/51HansQ_20160601_00000001/1-building-and-housing-minister%E2%80%94confidence

    40 houses were built on Monday, 40 houses were built on Tuesday, 40 houses were built on Wednesday and 40 houses will be built today. What is shameful about that? What is shameful about housing 200 families each week? That’s 10,400 families housed each year at the current rate of building.

    • Keith 9.1

      Firstly you would have to believe a National Party minister quoting stats, so good luck to you on that bullshit laden front.

      And yet the minister keeps boarding up state houses and selling them off while this disgraceful scandal goes on. That is what is shameful.

    • save nz 9.2

      @Fisini – after 50 days they have enough houses built for the new workers building the Sky City Convention centre! After 67.5 days they have built enough to replace the 2700 state houses they sold…

      anything else wrong with this picture?

      • save nz 9.2.1

        after 1675 days of building they have built enough for 67,000 new migrants entering NZ.. Oh but that alone is more than 4.5 years of current building just for last year of population growth…

        And what about the infrastructure that has yet to be built and how is going to pay for it, current residents?

        And with the budget freeze on health and education but the increase of population are medical people and teachers expected to work harder for longer or are the government just going to cut down these services or both?

      • save nz 9.2.2

        You haven’t worked out that we now have the ‘gold bricks’ where people just leave the property vacant as an investment. Investors planning to renovate, speculate or make a bigger less affordable house… because they are in it for profit – they are developers not government.

      • fisiani 9.2.3

        The workers building the convention centre presumably already have houses!!!! State house ownership matters not a jot when the houses are occupied. 2700 state houses owned by the state house 2700 families. They still house 2700 after they get better owners. Get some better arguments.BTW another two houses built.

        • save nz 9.2.3.1

          I know it’s hard Fisiani but do the Maths, the only way to catch up the housing demand is to dump immigration as a policy but the Natz will never do that because getting the local poor and homeless out of Auckland is a great way to take out their votes and win elections by default.

        • North 9.2.3.2

          It’s official – there is no problem. Fish Anus says so. May karma be spectacularly cruel to it.

        • Keith 9.2.3.3

          Not neccearily, when they are boarded up they are vacant. Then when investors buy them they can stand vacant, aka ghost houses and theres plenty around. But then again they could well be ready for removal or demolition just like in GI or Upper Hutt to name but a few, then no one lives in anything!

          Then again families who are struggling may not be able to afford to rent these ex state houses put up for rent by investors and so live in cars, Is that a good point?

          And 2 houses, which about sums up Nationals efforts, have been built, so what, who can afford these, people living in cars? How many people can live in 2 houses? Is 2 houses going to solve anything?

        • Keith 9.2.3.4

          BTW you believe Nick Smith which is delusional and BTW if all tbese houses a flooding the market why live in a car?

    • leftie 9.3

      Seriously Fisiani? you’re quoting a liar?

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 9.4

      Geez..this is back. I thought BM was bad enough.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.5

      Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The building consent rate that converts to building houses being met is virtually 100 percent—a little less than that, but it is very high.

      Andrew Little: In view of his clarification that he is now talking about 40 consents a day, just how many families are living in those consents?

      So, it’s consents not actual houses. I happen to have family working on some of those houses and HNZ are demanding that they be built in 20 days – which happens to be physically impossible. Typical, though, of the useless management that we have in NZ who just demand things to be done without understanding what needs to happen to get that done – and they keep paying less and less for more and more work.

      As I’ve said before, I know builders who’ve been in the business for 20+ years who are getting out because they’re simply not being paid enough. The type of people you actually need to build high quality houses and that comes down to National’s policies of dumping all risks, responsibility and costs onto the builders while removing them from the developers. The developers get richer, the builders get screwed.

    • McFlock 9.6

      You can’t live in building consents.

      And how many houses were torn down to clear space for those proposed buildings? Were they all greenfields sites or converted from industrial? Otherwise your “40 consents a day” might be only 20 new buildings a day 8 months from now…

    • Paul 9.7

      Defending the indefensible.

    • Ahhh… but what you and yours always conveniently like to forget is that the shitty wages on offer for the ‘working poor’ can never , ever , ever raise the deposit to buy a house.

      Great if you own a home and have several in your portfolio…

      Better even still for the National party as they get an assured vote…. however … the long term fall out of this is the destruction of the Key led National party…

      Why?… because its a policy of national shame, and, will be constantly thrown before their faces right up until 2017…they know, and we know… they are trapped by their own neo liberal policy’s… and are impotent.

      AND THAT … is the harbinger of their fall. Hence the desperate bullshit see- through lies that are currently cascading out of parliament to justify being caught out in an ideology that cannot be defended in a true democracy.

      Look at it this way : this is the poor striking back simply because of their poverty and the National party’s deliberate policy’s to impoverish them . Else why should they be called the poor -barring someone to name them as the poor?

      Such as National?

      And in turn bringing the proud and the haughty low – brought about by their own pride , their own avarice , their own arrogance… and you know the thing that really goads the far right wing fanatics?… is the fact that up until now the poor were dismissed as ‘ irrelevant’ , ‘ as those without a voice’ , as ‘ useless and rejects’ to the elites…

      It would do well to remember just what the Bastille was all about…

  10. Keith 10

    The village idiot Nick Smith thinks he’s been a bit clever by stretching and manipulating stats and telling the fools out there houses are more affordable than in 2008. Maybe the minister is including Honda Odysseys in housing nowadays.

    You’d have to be very slow or a National voter to believe this shit. And this is where Smith best illustrates the warped poll driven “solutions” and thinking the besiege National, that gets us to precisely where John Campbells sorry item finds us as a nation.

  11. adam 11

    Talk, talk, talk.

    Time to go away from the keyboard and talk to people.

    Engage.

    This will only change when people with morality, lead the amoral crowd by the nose to accept what it means to be a moral caring human being.

  12. tophat 12

    I may go down to the park this evening and knock on a window. See if the occupants need/want a room. Or something. it feel so wrong to just sit here and do nothing.

  13. Your Average Voter 13

    This sort of thing makes me sad and angry. Sad for the child and angry at the people wanting to exploit her.

    I feel very sorry for the young girl. She is not a woman. She is an 11 year old child and should not be in this situation.

    We don’t have child poverty in this country. We have poverty inflicted upon children that is driven by circumstances or neglect by their parents or caregivers. Adults have choices, children do not. They rely on their parents/caregivers to make the right choices on their behalf.

    JC is indulging in emotive journalism with little regard to any sort of balance. It’s crap journalism at its best. JC should be ashamed for exploiting a child for his own agenda.

    There are eight people living in this van. You cannot blame the State for everything in peoples lives. At some stage personal responsibility has to come into the equation. The child has no control over her living situation. So it is the parents that should be answering the hard questions.

    Questions to ask parents. And of course they are never asked by the MSM as it doesn’t suit their narrative. The government agencies can never answer the questions because of the privacy act. So round and round it goes.

    1. Is father working, if not why not?
    2. Have they been to the appropriate social welfare agency for help?
    3. If not, why not?
    4. If so, what help, if any, was offered.?
    5. Do they receive any type of social welfare payments?
    6. If so, how much?
    7. Are there adult brothers/sisters that are earning money from any source living in the van?
    8. Have they ever lived in a house?
    9. If so, what was the circumstances of them leaving their last house?
    10. Are they involved in any sort of family planning and budgeting services?

    I know that others will see this as some sort of cruel right wing attack. But it’s not. Get the facts which are often multi layered, ask the hard questions, get the honest answers and then you can go about solving the problem. Until then it’s all just emotive knee jerk reactions which ultimately help no one.

    • Sabine 13.1

      Paula Bennett is that you?

      John? Nick?

    • Venezia 13.2

      Your Average Voter……You clearly do not want to know the facts, but like many others who support a corrupt government, do not want to know the facts. Read the Child Poverty Action Group web page. They have lots of research results which show the growth of children living in poverty as result of the policies of this government. This situation of homelessness doubling in Auckland over the last three years has to be seen as intentional, if you consider the selling off of thousands of State Houses, continual change and reduction of income support policies, hollowing out of the public services and reduction in real terms of incomes for all but the top 30%.
      “We don’t have child poverty in this country” you say…. Have you noticed that under John Key, incomes have reduced over the last 8 years. And John Key is down on record, speaking to an Employers gathering in 2008 saying “I would love to see wages drop”.
      Have you read the account given by Te Puea marae about this family? it answers most of your questions. Go read it on their Facebook page. The father in this family has been laid off from his job and is desperately looking for another. The mother is in paid work, but not enough to afford a rental right now in Auckland. We now know, because of the experience of other people applying to government agencies for help, that if this family receive that “Help” it comes with huge debts attached. Living in their van is the rational approach.

      • Your Average Voter 13.2.1

        If the media are going to bring something into the public arena then they are beholden to give all aspects and facts to the story. That way we, the public, can make informed opinions and vote accordingly come election time.

        So, one question number one answered. Good to know and I wish him well with his job searching.

        • marty mars 13.2.1.1

          I find your comment insincere – you don’t care – that is proven by your BIG list of questions YOU need answered in your comment above. You, like bm, are sad scum appologists for the useless gnats and their inaction. What the fuck have YOU done to help, what?

        • mickysavage 13.2.1.2

          Right wing: it must be the father’s fault cause this Government is super duper and John Key is the best.

          Left wing: this is terrible and why haven’t they done something about it?

          As for releasing all the details YAV if that happened then the likes of Slater would be all over the parents’ details looking for something to smear them with.

          Why not accept the situation for what it is, appalling.

          And why not ask why the number of homeless has spiked under this Government’s watch.

          • Infused 13.2.1.2.1

            left wing: lets keep throwing money at this. What are the outcomes? who cares, keep throwing money at it.

            • Stuart Munro 13.2.1.2.1.1

              Rightwing “Lets sell the assets that kept cost of living down and steal the money”.

              Every one of them should be in the chokey.

          • Your Average Voter 13.2.1.2.2

            Hi Mickey

            I agree with you about the Slater angle and dragging the family through the mud.

            But the fact remains. It is JC that has exploited this young girl and her family by placing them under the media microscope.

            • marty mars 13.2.1.2.2.1

              “It is JC that has exploited this young girl and her family by placing them under the media microscope.”

              That is depraved thinking – you’d rather, like bennett and key, it was all “nothing to see here”, “no issue”, “move along”. Guess what noddy this issue is REAL and not going away because REAL people are suffering and REAL people are talking and discussing what the hell can be done. You don’t want that and fair enough from your idiotic position, but this is NOT going away.

              and the fact that you use the well worn keyism “but the fact remains” shows even more how out of touch you are – small hands?

            • Hanswurst 13.2.1.2.2.2

              That sort of information is what we have statistics and research for. Pieces like this are dsigned as part of balanced reporting by getting the viewpoints of those affected. People giving their own views in that sort of situation should never be required to give more information than they are comfortable with. She is not responsible for apportioning public money or administering policy, so she isn’t obliged to disclose any more than she wishes. You are just looking to denigrate a private person.

    • Macro 13.3

      If you represent the average voter – then it is no wonder why this country is in such a poor state.

    • adam 13.4

      Solving the problem is simple, the facts are in. Stop being amoral, and looking for someone to blame.

      Build more houses.

    • Wensleydale 13.5

      Or you could help people first, and then interrogate them at your leisure later on. You know, after they’ve been fed, and clothed and housed as is their right. As a human being.

    • AB 13.6

      Question 11. Why is their mum not working as a currency speculator for Merrill Lynch instead of (presumably) doing low-paid productive work? It pays much better

    • leftie 13.7

      @Your average voter, yes it is a cruel right wing attack of scapegoating, and you know it is. What you wrote is a litany of outrageous bollocks. Easier to blame the victims than address the real problems and it’s causes, isn’t it?

      Kicking the key led National government out of office will go a long way in beginning to solve the problems National are actively fostering.

      • Your Average Voter 13.7.1

        Please quote where I have blamed the victim for anything.

        If you think changing the government will solve the problem then you are sadly mistaken. Labour/Green or whoever will have to face these issues and the facts and they will offer as many lame excuses as this government.

        Regardless of who is in power. Identify the facts. Fix the problem.

        • weka 13.7.1.1

          “Please quote where I have blamed the victim for anything.”

          It’s implied in your comments. You can clear it up quickly though. Do you think that the family in question are responsible for the situation they are in?

          • Your Average Voter 13.7.1.1.1

            Do you think that the family in question are responsible for the situation they are in?

            No, I simply do not have enough facts to make that call. Hence the questions

            • marty mars 13.7.1.1.1.1

              Yep you are a worthless factman who doesnt give a shit. Now we know whereas before we could only accurately guess.

            • weka 13.7.1.1.1.2

              “Do you think that the family in question are responsible for the situation they are in?”

              You didn’t answer my question, which make me think you are being disingenuous. So let me hazard a guess. You believe that people who are on low incomes or benefits are there because of their life choices. That if they just tried harder, were better people, made different decisions then all would be well. You use this belief to detract from the social responsibility of the government to do things like make sure there are enough houses, that the cost of living matches income, and that everyone deserves a certain standard of living because we live in a society where we all benefit from state, even you.

              “Do you think that the family in question are responsible for the situation they are in?”

              I don’t actually care. Because until we as a country run things so that everyone gets a fair go, the question is pretty moot. That family could be making the best decisions in the world and still be homeless, because not all things come down to personal choice. I also don’t care because everyone makes bad decisions at some point, and it’s not fair that for some people (you I am guessing) the consequences are minor because you happened to have privileges that other people didn’t.

              Plus, you need to read some Linda Tirado, who will explain in terms even you can understand why personal choice when below the poverty line is completely different from what you believe.

              http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/21/linda-tirado-poverty-hand-to-mouth-extract

              Like BM above, I think your questions are designed exactly to garner information that would give you some theoretical, but still bullshit support for your prejudices.

              • Your Average Voter

                Hi Weka
                Yes, I answered your question honestly. It just wasn’t the answer you wanted or needed.

                The truth is I don’t know and nor do most people on this forum.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Yes, we do: we know that poverty, homelessness, and unemployment are caused by government policy, period, Otherwise, you would have to acknowledge that under National, far more people make bad decisions.

                • weka

                  It’s not that I didn’t want the answer, it’s that I don’t believe you. Everything you are saying in this thread tells us that you believe that you are entitled to make judgements about other people based on your own criteria of what is relevant or not. It’s simply not possible to do that in any way other than a prejudicial one. You’re a bigot and a dishonest one too. Read Tirado.

            • Kevin 13.7.1.1.1.3

              Why do you expect other commenters on here to find your facts for you?

        • leftie 13.7.1.2

          Your average voter, your comment is victim blaming and it’s so typical that you cannot see it. I never said changing the government will solve the problem, what I said was “Kicking the key led National government out of office will go a long way in beginning to solve the problems National are actively fostering.”
          Is your assumption that a new government will “offer as many lame excuses as this government” an excuse for not kicking National out? That’s just a biased assumption on your part, that could very well turn out to be wrong.
          Lets kick “this government” out and and see if a new government can take steps to address the problems and its causes, we have already lost so much and have nothing left to lose, after all, 8 years of this Key led National government has failed this country and its people on so many levels already.

          • Robert Guyton 13.7.1.2.1

            It’s a curious coincidence, I suppose, that “maninthemiddle” and “average voter” have pen-names that are designed to sound reasonable and innocuous, kind of ordinary, yet their views are clearly far (right) from that. In fact, the two names could almost have been generated in the same place, for the same purpose. Who, after all, would not be put at their ease by someone named, “niceordinaryguy”.

            • leftie 13.7.1.2.1.1

              Good point Robert, that is what the rw do, and ‘appearances’ are deceptive aren’t they? Their personas don’t reflect the name. “Your average voter” has a decidedly familiar “Maninthemiddle” aspect in their comments.

              • yep good observations – probably a ‘pretend we are reasonable’ name generator although as usual righties go too far and expose themselves…

                • Robert Guyton

                  He’s the same person.
                  His MO is being untruthful.

                  • it’s naughty to try and guess peoples names or identities here Robert – or should I call you ROB!!!!! 🙂

                    • Can’t be naughty to try and guess, marty. Publishing those guesses might be frowned upon, but making guesses, informed guesses, in the privacy of one’s own home can’t be naughty can it?
                      In any case, this guy’s as transparent as wet paper tissue. His MO can’t be concealed. He’s got form being untruthful and needs to be reminded of that whenever he comes over all sincere, that is, whenever it suits him.

                    • Yes I agree, please keep up the good work.

                • Anno1701

                  “undecided voter” anyone ?

    • weka 13.8

      Questions to ask parents. And of course they are never asked by the MSM as it doesn’t suit their narrative. The government agencies can never answer the questions because of the privacy act. So round and round it goes.

      1. Is father working, if not why not?
      2. Have they been to the appropriate social welfare agency for help?
      3. If not, why not?
      4. If so, what help, if any, was offered.?
      5. Do they receive any type of social welfare payments?
      6. If so, how much?
      7. Are there adult brothers/sisters that are earning money from any source living in the van?
      8. Have they ever lived in a house?
      9. If so, what was the circumstances of them leaving their last house?
      10. Are they involved in any sort of family planning and budgeting services?

      It’s none of our business, and even if all your questions were answered, that still wouldn’t give you enough information or knowledge to form a useful opinion. For instance, you don’t ask how much debt they have, which could render all your other questions pretty meaningless.

      Let’s take a hypothetical family then. I’m always amazed at the lack of imagination by people with prejudices. By imagination, I mean being able to think through possible scenarios.

      1. Is father working, if not why not?
      Yes, minimum wage.

      Or, no, has serious depression that makes full time work impossible.

      2. Have they been to the appropriate social welfare agency for help?

      Yes. WINZ offered them a motel, but they would have to take on a WINZ debt which they cannot afford to repay.

      HNZ offered them a state house, but it’s a 1 1/2 hour drive from the grandmother who is care and at the end of her life and that distance means they wouldn’t be able to spend time with her.

      3. If not, why not?
      4. If so, what help, if any, was offered.?

      They are reluctant to go back to WINZ because each time they have been WINZ have treated them without respect and humiliated them. This is a common experience for WINZ clients, they’ve heard this from their friends and family too. In the end most people know that you don’t actually get much assistance and the assistance you do get comes with both humiliation and strings. Also, WINZ has lost their paperwork 3 times and they don’t have the time to keep going back to sort it out. WINZ no longer use appointments with case managers, so it’s a matter of turning up and sitting and waiting to see someone. Very hard to do when you are working.

      HNZ have them on the waiting list.

      5. Do they receive any type of social welfare payments?
      6. If so, how much?

      What diference does that make? You get that wages and benefits are both not enough to live on for many people?

      7. Are there adult brothers/sisters that are earning money from any source living in the van?

      All kids.

      Or, there is a 17 year old who has left school who picks up part time work here and there. What difference does that make?

      8. Have they ever lived in a house?
      WTF? You think they’ve been living in a van for 10 or 15 years?

      9. If so, what was the circumstances of them leaving their last house?
      Again, what would that matter?

      10. Are they involved in any sort of family planning and budgeting services?
      Budgeting services are pretty upfront about the fact that many of their clients can’t be helped because you can’t budget if you don’t have enough income.

      How would family planning help them find a home? Do you know what Maslow’s heirarchy of needs is?

      I don’t give a shit what your politics are or who you vote for, but your attitude is basically that people are always responsible for what happens to them. That kind of judgement damages people and makes society worse off.

      • Your Average Voter 13.8.1

        Hi Weka.

        Good reply and I appreciate you arguing the points

        Using your hypothetical family.

        Yes, unaffordable debt is another that will put you in the poor house. Try targeting the parasites that prey on the poor. Eg. truck shops, loan sharks. etc etc

        1. Yes. Job loss, accidents, health issues and mental health issues can change your circumstances for the worse in the blink of an eye. In which case the State should provide a safety net where possible.

        4. I agree completely. The system should be a lot simpler.

        6. Exactly how much would the State pay for all the kids? I’m not suggesting it’s a fortune but if it’s adequate then perhaps budgeting advise would help.

        7. What difference does it make? People living together and earning should all contribute. That is just a basic life skill.

        9. Were they kicked out for being bad tenants? Were they good tenants and the rent was to high? Yes, it adds context to everything.

        10. Reset the clock. Waive crushing debt that can never be repaid and start again with budgeting advise. Over simplistic solution I know.

        Family planning. Too many kids will keep you and the children in poverty. I know that is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted for some. But why not identify it and encourage it on smaller families before it becomes a problem to them.

        End of hypothetical family.

        No, I do not believe that people are always responsible for everything that happens to them. We all have circumstances change through no fault of our own. See above

        But I also don’t believe in giving everyone a a free pass on their own consistent bad decision making. Otherwise we run the risk of them becoming permanently reliant on the state or permanent victims. Neither which is healthy for them or society.

        How do you strike that balance?……That’s the eternal question.

        • leftie 13.8.1.1

          YAV, National’s entire caucus got a free pass. None of them would be where they are today if it hadn’t of been for good government support. Was it bad decision making that John key lived in a state house and received free education provided by the government? Was it bad decision making that Paula Bennett cared for herself and her child on a benefit, got a house, free education and support provided by the government?

          Then the Key led National government pulled up the ladder so no one else could have the support that they themselves received.

          You realize that poverty and homelessness is NOT a “life style choice” (John key’s words), don’t you? You realize that John key and his government lie, don’t you?

        • weka 13.8.1.2

          “6. Exactly how much would the State pay for all the kids? I’m not suggesting it’s a fortune but if it’s adequate then perhaps budgeting advise would help.”

          I’ll repeat, budgeting won’t solve the problem of not enough income.

          “7. What difference does it make? People living together and earning should all contribute. That is just a basic life skill.”

          What makes you assume that they’re not?

          “9. Were they kicked out for being bad tenants? Were they good tenants and the rent was to high? Yes, it adds context to everything.”

          How does that change the fact that there aren’t enough affordable houses in Auckland?

          “10. Reset the clock. Waive crushing debt that can never be repaid and start again with budgeting advise. Over simplistic solution I know.”

          How does that solve the problem of there not being enough affordable housing in Auckland? You can waive the debt (good idea), but if the income to housing cost ratio doesn’t change then they will end up in the same situation.

          “Family planning. Too many kids will keep you and the children in poverty. I know that is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted for some. But why not identify it and encourage it on smaller families before it becomes a problem to them.”

          Because, Maslow’s heirarchy of needs.

          “No, I do not believe that people are always responsible for everything that happens to them. We all have circumstances change through no fault of our own. See above

          But I also don’t believe in giving everyone a a free pass on their own consistent bad decision making. Otherwise we run the risk of them becoming permanently reliant on the state or permanent victims. Neither which is healthy for them or society.”

          Please cite 3 examples of people here wanting to give everyone a free pass on their own consistent bad decision making. You are arguing with a figment in your imagination.

          • Your Average Voter 13.8.1.2.1

            “Please cite 3 examples of people here wanting to give everyone a free pass on their own consistent bad decision making. You are arguing with a figment in your imagination.

            Where did I say that people here are giving a free pass? I was stating my own opinion.

            If you read and thought about what I have actually said instead of a knee jerk reaction then perhaps there could be be some rational debate.

            No wonder nothing changes. How bloody sad.

            • marty mars 13.8.1.2.1.1

              name 25 things that don’t change?

              • McFlock

                1: the rich and powerful exploiting the poor and weak.
                2: acolytes of the rich and powerful pretending to be concerned at the suffering of the poor and weak, while seeking excuses to ignore it.

                Those two seem pretty constant.

                • you enjoy the lists don’t you 🙂

                  silly to expect average fool to answer – 15 reasons why he won’t answer?

                  1. takes too long to text bennett and key when it is easier to just talk to them across the room, even though they aren’t talking to each other because of the tiff resulting from bennett putting key’s arse in the fire and allowing one of his many lies to be easily refuted, but almost impossible to get the storylines straight regarding talking points and muddle thrown because of said tiff.

            • McFlock 13.8.1.2.1.2

              Forget “free” pass – the “Hail Mary” pass is to hope nobody notices that you ignored five points to latch onto one comment that you might be able to turn into an excuse to shake your head in a theatrically-disappointed manner and leave.

              You raised the question of the moral hazard. Obviously, if nobody wishes to give everyone a a free pass on their own consistent bad decision-making (with its concomitant problems in the fevered tory mind), then that particular question is irrelevant to people sleeping in cars.

            • weka 13.8.1.2.1.3

              “Where did I say that people here are giving a free pass? I was stating my own opinion.”

              yeah, like I said, you are arguing with a figment in your imagination. That’s why you don’t understand what people are saying here, or why they are calling bullshit on what you are doing. Now you are just saying we are all bad debaters and blaming us for the problems. That sounds awfully familiar, ie you just like blaming people who don’t fit your ideas of what is proper behaviour.

              Out of everything I said in my last comment, you pick one thing and decide we’re not being fair. Try arguing the actual points.

    • Your Average Voter has a nice checklist of excuses to withhold the provision of help and support to those who really need it. Good work. Sums up the average voter rather well.

      Also: “we don’t have child poverty in this country” So ignorant its hilarious. Again, the actual view of the average voter in this country. Why? Is the truth too inconvenient? Does it damage their fragile belief that somehow only they possess the power to pull themselves up their bootstraps, that they’re special, unique little snowflakes? Oh dear.

      • Expat 13.9.1

        The New Student

        Great Summary!!

        The question is: What happened to the real NZers, it appears greed and self interest has replaced kindness and empathy.

    • Paul 13.10

      Unbelievable.
      Borderline psychopathic.
      Google empathy.

  14. Your Average Voter 14

    “Your Average Voter has a nice checklist of excuses to withhold the provision of help and support to those who really need it.”

    The response will depends entirley on the box that is ticked. Or are you suggesting that everyone should get State money just for turning up and spinning a good story instead of analysing pertanent facts.

    “Also: “we don’t have child poverty in this country” So ignorant its hilarious”

    You have taken my comment out of context. Here it is in full

    “We don’t have child poverty in this country. We have poverty inflicted upon children that is driven by circumstances or neglect by their parents or caregivers. Adults have choices, children do not. They rely on their parents/caregivers to make the right choices on their behalf”

    You will notice that I have used the words circumstance or neglect. See my comments above. 13.8.1

    To help the children you have to help the adults first.

    • leftie 14.1

      Bollocks Your average voter, and your comment hasn’t been taken out of context, it’s utter rw bullshit.

      • Muttonbird 14.1.1

        Next we’ll hear Your Average Voter used to vote Labour, along with his father, and his father’s father…

    • The New Student 14.2

      Yes, what you say is true: adults need help so they may be better positioned to help their children. I think we can all agree on that. So why the beef? Why do we need to withhold assistance? Why do we need to be petty?

      Meanwhile, these children are still in poverty, no matter which way you’d like to spin it.

      I personally believe all of NZ’s children have the right to much more than just being clothed, fed and housed. But this country is failing them on even these basic necessities.

  15. Sirenia 15

    Ruth Richardson and the National Government got rid of the Family Benefit that would have given the family another several hundred dollars a week (just as John Key’s mother got the equivalent of a third of the pension for each child). What a different that could make to them now.

    • Your Average Voter 15.1

      Hi Sirenia

      Yes, and from memory you were able to capitalise the family benefit to put toward a deposit on a house. It literally helped thousands of young people with families into their own homes.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1.1

        Obviously people made better choices back then 🙄

        • Sabine 15.1.1.1

          People only make bad choices under the National Party led government. Its like the National Party contagious disease…..it spreads from the National Voter to the National Party MP to the National Party PM and so on, and before you know it the whole country is sick, tummy aches, runny nose etc etc etc and all the hospitals have been closed down.

  16. kieron 16

    Time to charge parliament and remove all politicians ala the iraqi people storming their parliament

    • McFlock 16.1

      have fun with that.

      Although NZ is not Iraq, so people might think your proposal… disproportionate.

      • Expat 16.1.1

        Not a bad idea though, although, if you look at another banana republic, Papua New Guinea, the police shot the protesters (students) who were only trying to hold the corrupt govt to account, which only happened yesterday.

        • McFlock 16.1.1.1

          PNG has a massive gang problem and corruption problem and general violence problem at the moment. As does Iraq.

          Don’t get me wrong, I reckon we’re artificially high in the international corruption-free ratings, but we’re not at the Sleeping Dogs level yet.

          • Expat 16.1.1.1.1

            No we’re not, but very concerning when any govt starts shooting their own citizens.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1.1.1.1

              Why shoot them when preventable infectious diseases, poor housing and changes to employment law can save on bullets?

          • ianmac 16.1.1.1.2

            Aha Sleeping Dogs! Trying to remember the name of that film as it is a fine line between that film and current NZ trends.

            • McFlock 16.1.1.1.2.1

              nah – much more Muldoony.

              this lot are more about distraction and boredom than direct control and martial law.

  17. Paul 17

    TA’s story hits the MSM.

    ‘Homeless family: The realities of living in a van
    A family who lived for four months in their van kept going to work and school throughout their ordeal – and their daughter almost won a scholarship to St Cuthbert’s College.
    The two parents and six children aged 7 to 17 got up early every day to shower and eat breakfast at the mother’s workplace.
    Their 11-year-old daughter has posted on Facebook under the pseudonym “TA” about how she made lunches for all the children – “but sometimes there’s barely anything”.
    “It’s hard to do my homework with my family around,” she wrote.
    But despite being homeless, she just missed out on winning one of four scholarships offered by elite St Cuthbert’s College to Year 7 Maori and Pacific students each year.
    Favona Primary School deputy principal Heather Harvey, who encouraged her to apply and drove her to the test, said the college offered “fabulous resources” that the girl would never have access to at Mangere’s Decile 1 high schools.
    “She’s a very lovely, capable girl,” she said. “She was the head of our kapahaka team.”
    Mrs Harvey also wrote a letter supporting the family’s application for social housing, but had no response.
    “Things have been very hard for them. I just can’t understand how they lived,” she said.’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11653678

  18. Tanz 18

    Perhaps JK could open up his mansion to the homeless? He could rent out his garage for four hundred a week (apparently the going rate for a garage), or perhaps his garden shed. FFS, he is a multi millionaire. Why does he not simply hand the homeless enoughfor a home each> or at least help say ten to fifty families…yes, I am dreaming.

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