Nats losing it on the TPP

Written By: - Date published: 7:02 am, August 27th, 2015 - 73 comments
Categories: accountability, capitalism, democracy under attack, Globalisation, john key, trade - Tags: , ,

National are really losing it on the TPP. On Tuesday a farce unfolded in Parliament:

Green Party trade spokesman Russel Norman repeatedly questioned associate Minister of Trade Todd McClay during Parliamentary Question Time yesterday on whether the text of the TPP could be modified once the Government had signed, a claim made recently by Whangarei MP Shane Reti. Mr McClay refused to give a yes or no answer, despite the question being posed four times.

“From the National Party’s point of view, they want to present an image that there’s a big parliamentary process [around the TPP]. Really, the point of those questions was to expose them for not wanting to admit the truth,” Dr Norman said.

The video is quite something to behold:

On Wednesday Russel Norman returned to his questions, and this time he got some answers:

Once again the video:

It’s not just in Parliament that the Nats hate any kind of scrutiny of the TPP. Groser has called those concerned “breathless children”, Key has called us “misinformed”. Yesterday Groser lashed out again:

TPP sceptics won’t halt deal – Groser

Trade Minister Tim Groser has lashed out at public opposition to the Trans Pacific Partnership, saying he won’t let “anti-trade forces” stand in the way of the contentious deal. … “I mean, really?” Groser said. “It is a mixture of a set of deeply ideological opponents to the use of markets … [who] focus on trade liberalisation to express a deeply ideological view that is the antithesis of all countries’ practical experience over the last 40 years.”

The thousands of people who marched 2 weeks ago are not anti-trade (there were no such marches for other FTAs) – they are anti-TPP. Arguably the TPP is more anti than free trade – most of the text is about enforcing more and more restrictions.

“But when we’ve done this deal – if we do this deal – then we’ll be able to get the facts out and confront these ludicrously exaggerated concerns,” he said.

The concerns are not “ludicrously exaggerated”, it has already been admitted that the TPP will for example raise the cost of medicines.

“I’m absolutely beyond the stage of argument on the value of integrating our communities in a politically sensitive way and we’re not going to be stopped by these anti-trade forces.”

Groser is absolutely beyond the stage of rational thought and is now operating on pure ego. He needs to stop flinging out the random insults and engage with people’s legitimate concerns.

73 comments on “Nats losing it on the TPP”

  1. les 1

    freedom and democracy…U.S style!

  2. Charles 2

    “I mean, really?” Groser said. “It is a mixture of a set of deeply ideological opponents to the use of markets … [who] focus on trade liberalisation to express a deeply ideological view that is the antithesis of all countries’ practical experience over the last 40 years.”

    So was that an argument for, or against, from Groser? I mean really, 40 years? That’s the extent of his World history?

    “But when we’ve done this deal – if we do this deal – then we’ll be able to get the facts out and confront these ludicrously exaggerated concerns,” he said.

    Confront people with what, authoritarian compulsion after the fact? Confront people with the “fact” they have no longer have a say and it’s a done deal? Really? Now where have I experienced this kind of behaviour before. Sure there’s a name for it… Oh, here we go, it’s in full flight now….

    “I’m absolutely beyond the stage of argument on the value of integrating our communities in a politically sensitive way and we’re not going to be stopped by these anti-trade forces.”

    You’re beyond the stage of integrating the community in a sensitive way, and you’re going to impose it onto the community whether they agree or not? I’d argue you never had any good faith toward the NZ people in the first place, then. Tell them nicely, then demand against their will? Right. Ok.

    I’d bet Groser is being a World-class dipshit in an attempt to agravate whatever protests come next so the government can demonise sane, rational, people, and get the police to attack them with their new tasers. I mean, someone as aggressive and stupid as Groser, who’d let him any where near any kind of negotiating process. All that is happening is he’s exposing the National government for the hill of fresh excrement that it is. Good work, Grosey.

  3. Ad 3

    Mr Norman’s questioning is old and misdirected.

    The media have moved on.
    TPP is dead – the left didn’t kill it, but it’s dead all the same.

    Mr Norman should focus on holding the government to account for their failure to plan for the looming crisis in our trade with China. He and Labour have worked on joint initiatives about the economy before.

    It’s time the Greens and Labour showed again that they can work together on an alternative economic plan for New Zealand. Neither of them will be in government unless they can convince New Zealand that they are ready to govern together.

    Don’t waste your breath Mr Norman.
    Work on your legacy in your remaining time in office.

    • Sabine 3.1

      IT might be that he considers asking these questions his “legacy”. A finer ‘legacy’ then a new tea towel flag, or an undemocratic agreement giving our sovereignty over to a handful of multinational corporations.

      as for the looming crisis with China……Mr. Key just assured us that he is most comfortable with the happenings there, and that we will be well looked after by Mr. English.
      That should re-assure you, after all it is most important that Mr Key is most comfortable.

      Media? What media? The gossip journalists on the big box? Who really watches that shit still? You do? Oh dear….!

      • George Hendry 3.1.1

        @ Sabine

        ‘It might be that he considers asking these questions his “legacy”.’

        Thoroughly agree.

        As the farcically blatant corruption from National reaches new lows nearly every week now, it becomes ever more important for remaining principled politicians to stick to the task of eliciting what few scraps of truth there may be among the government’s rain/reign of lies. When a question is asked enough times, even the most hardened liar will eventually give up the lie, once maintaining it starts to seem too much like hard work.

        So much persistence is required – it must be really tiring.

        Of course “the media have moved on’. Just as sheep move on, droppings left on the ground, when the (state) dogs bark behind them.

        Most commenters on this site understand that media don’t tell what we need to know, but what the 1% want us to believe or be distracted by.

        However, there is much comment made on political polls which seems to assume that, unlike media, polls are reasonably accurate and essentially trustworthy.

        I find it much more reasonable to assume that, like media, polls can be and often are bought, rigged, and used to maintain the collective government lie.

      • Ad 3.1.2

        He’s bigger than that, and he knows it.

        He needs to go out with more than a minor infraction.

        Parliament’s debating chamber is the very definition of a forest with no-one watching: if a tree falls, no one would care, no-one could prove it, and life goes on.

        Choose something more substantial to go out on Mr Norman. This battle’s over.

        • Tracey 3.1.2.1

          Lay out your concrete suggestions for him here Ad?

          I consider his legacy is made up of work over a number of years, but that’s just my view.

          • Ad 3.1.2.1.1

            Nope. His job not mine. I know he’s worn out – fair enough.
            But so far taint nowhere near enough. It’s arguing about how TPP was lost.
            Minor game for political entail readers.
            Plus, I offered a clear suggestion above. Keep up.
            In fact, today I’ve generated an entire post on it.

            • Tracey 3.1.2.1.1.1

              The looming crisis with China, that John Key and English say is under control? Yeah that will be a winner against the National machine.

              🙄

              TPP is NOT dead, despite how much you tell yourself that.

              • Draco T Bastard

                TPP is NOT dead, despite how much you tell yourself that.

                QFT

                Although I’m sure that a lot of people would wish that we all believed that it was.

    • Chooky 3.2

      re “It’s time the Greens and Labour showed again that they can work together on an alternative economic plan for New Zealand. Neither of them will be in government unless they can convince New Zealand that they are ready to govern together”

      …agreed

      ….and they must both work together with Winston Peters NZF ….anything less will deliver the next Election back to Nactional and more of the same

      • Ad 3.2.1

        That’s the point.

        There won’t be an alternative government until NZFirst, Greens, and Labour show that they can work together.

        They have done that last term in the huge petition on the sale of the electricity companies.

        They need to show the public where they have common interest.
        That is what the beginning of an alternative government would look like.

        • Tracey 3.2.1.1

          and where is the common interest?

          • Ad 3.2.1.1.1

            It’s their job to figure it out.

            I’m not proposing anyone should do it for them.

            They get paid to figure out how to win.

          • Jones 3.2.1.1.2

            Whatever it is it has to clearly state a desirable future.

            Just some thoughts… A return to a more egalitarian NZ? An re-emphasis on the commonwealth and the renationalisation of assets that should belong to it? Improved regional governance and delegation of decision-making to local government and communities?

        • Sacha 3.2.1.2

          The joint manufacturing inquiry was another constructive example of all three parties working together. Only takes a handful of such things across a range of issues during next year or two.

      • save NZ 3.2.2

        +100 Chooky

    • Tracey 3.3

      My God you are in a deep funk of negativity today. have you rolled over and accepted national as government til you die or something?

      Question nothing, but win back the Treasury seats. how pray tell.

    • weston 3.4

      you must be watching a different parliment to me ad time and again when ive been watching over the last few years russel norman has provided almost ALL the opposition in the house he has absolutely doggedly followed through on his attempts to force national to concede points and done so in a calm friendly but determined manner all credit to him .your tone is hovering arround political snobery yet you claim to want the greens and labour to work togeather again ??hopefully your nowhere near parliment

  4. dv 4

    The NATS problem is they are not trusted to tell he truth. And the crap in the house with McClay does NOT help.

    That performance by McCLay illustrates their contempt.

    • James 4.1

      “The NATS problem is they are not trusted to tell he truth.”

      Anything to back that up? (other than other people on a left wing blog) – Didnt think so.

      Given that they are over 50% in the polls kind of indicates that they are trusted and people would vote for them.

      • dv 4.1.1

        Anything to back that up? (other than other people on a left wing blog) – Didnt think so.

        See blip.

        AND Reti
        . . . As part of ratification, the agreement comes before parliament and opposition parties and select committees for debate and modifications . . . the treaty comes before parliament many times for robust debate as “readings” and the “committee of the whole house”. After each reading the agreement is usually referred back to select committee for even further debate. It is in the many select committee processes that we look to hear the voice of the public through public submissions . . .

      • Tracey 4.1.2

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9085347/John-Keys-believability-low

        Only 23% believe what John Key says. That is he doesn’t tell the truth. Not from a left wing blog either, but a poll.

    • aidan 4.2

      I agree. there are few as contemptuous as mccclay

  5. Chooky 5

    +100…Good Post …and Russel Norman’s questions are absolutely pertinent and crucial for New Zealand Democracy

    The TPPA is about undermining New Zealand Democracy and New Zealander’s rights in their own country by outside corporates and their Nact representatives

    The TPPA MUST NOT be signed!… and if it is signed it will NOT be binding on New Zealanders and future New Zealand governments.

  6. heather 6

    Their behaviour is contemptable, they can not and will not answer a simple question.

    Their waffle and obsfuscation is outdated and foolish. These are yesterdays men.

    If Grosser has nothing to hide, why has he skulked off to another office, he obviously could not deal to people going to his office and asking questions.

    We are tired of being given a constant daily dose of being treated like fools.

    • les 6.1

      ‘Their waffle and obsfuscation is outdated and foolish. ‘….au contraire…it is effective as is reflected in polling…the voters do not care.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1

        And that is why Labour and the other opposition parties need to start calling National liars in the MSM – especially on live TV/Radio.

        • tc 6.1.1.1

          +100 Draco, the opposition just doesn’t seem to get it do they and keep bringing knives to a gun fight.

          Goff got good traction calling out Keys GST lie in 2011 (and caught him out as he wasn’t expecting to be called on it) and he’s handed them a bat with state housing sales after clearly stating ‘no more asset sales’ in last years GE.

          This is a major reason people aren’t engaged….lightweight opposition not throwing punches.

        • Jones 6.1.1.2

          Spot on! Because that directly challenges the Government to bring on defamation lawsuits if it isn’t true. There is no point in treating a Government with respect when it holds the people in contempt.

  7. save NZ 7

    TPP and associated agreements are death to NZ, our social democracy, jobs, environment and way of life.

    It is the LOONIE RIGHT

    an agreement that gives NZ zero benefit and more secret rules and regulations – more red tape for trade that is secret and exposing NZ to massive litigation in international courts.

    Goodbye dairy industry, agriculture and property in local hands, goodbye clean waters, goodbye a fair go for everyone.

    Look at the tobacco industry – even if you are in the wrong you litigate and litigate until everyone fears you and your victims are broke and dead. Kill people, make a profit, make the health system pick up the tab and blame your victims for smoking who are often young, uneducated and poor.

  8. Draco T Bastard 8

    …all countries’ practical experience over the last 40 years.

    All countries practical experience over the last 40 years is that free-trade doesn’t work and exemplified by the GFC. National, and all other supporters of more corporate control, are in denial of this experience.

    Groser is absolutely beyond the stage of rational thought and is now operating on pure ego. He needs to stop flinging out the random insults and engage with people’s legitimate concerns.

    He’s operating as National always operates – they assume that they know best and that everyone else is beneath them and should do as they’re told.

    Pure authoritarianism. Stalin would be proud.

  9. Richard Christie 9

    Can some please explain to me the process in regard to the refusal of permission to table documents in the House.

    To me it appears that any Member can veto on whim and without provision of any reason.
    Furthermore, the Speaker makes no attempt to identify and therefore record the identities of those who object.

    • Tracey 9.1

      usually if a document is available in the public domain already it is vetoed.

      • Richard Christie 9.1.1

        Thanks Tracey, for the observation, but to an old cynic like me the lack of requirement for any reason to be given and recorded for the casting of a veto is open to abuse and corruption.

  10. Macro 10

    Groser is absolutely beyond the stage of rational thought and is now operating on pure ego. He needs to stop flinging out the random insults and engage with people’s legitimate concerns GO.

    FIFY

  11. Rolf 11

    TPP is an annexation of New Zealand to become a slave state and satellite state of the USA. Japan annexed Korea in the same way 1910, and the Soviet Union annexed Eastern Germany and other USSR slave state precisely like that too. The TPP agreement means that decision will be made in Washington and in US big corporations, and then under that agreement implemented in New Zealand. Don’t make your self any illusions of anything else. Don’t con yourself.

    • Wayne 11.2

      Get a grip.

      Do you really think Japan, Mexico, Canada, Australia Malaysia, Vietnam, Chile, Singapore, among others, are about to make themselves slave states of the US.

      The more I read of the opponents “opinions” the more they sound like they have completely lost all proportion of the issues at stake. Even if you don’t know the precise text of the agreement, any amount of reading will show that these kinds of ridiculous assertions don’t warrant serious consideration.

      No wonder Tim Groser can hardly be bothered arguing the merits directly with the opponents, when this is so often the level that the debate is being conducted at.

      • Ad 11.2.1

        Wayne, we have been outplayed on TPP. When it started we were a central player.

        Groser does neither himself nor his government any favors. He essentially still works for MFAT, and has kept the MFAT attitude. You know what they are like in there.

        Just imagine if MFAT really had to answer in a Better Public Services sense.
        Fail mark.

        Government’s own failure to communicate or engage with the public has fueled the paranoia and protests. The failure is militating against the government. Figure the politics out Wayne.

        • Wayne 11.2.1.1

          I have always supported TPP. That is in line with my general belief in the virtues of free trade. That should be no surprise to anyone on this site.

          New Zealand is simply joining in a partnership of 11 other Asia Pacific economies, in improving trade and investment. And expanding international trade is core National Party philosophy and should not surprise anyone. If many of those on the Left don’t share that viewpoint, what that is what political contests are about.

          Of course many on the Left like to over egg the pudding by accusing those on the Right who support TPP of being “traitors, sellouts, slaves, betrayers, bought off, etc”, but that is hardly the stuff of reasoned debate. And unsurprisingly does lead to exasperation.

          • dv 11.2.1.1.1

            Of course many on the Left like to over egg the pudding by accusing those on the Right who support TPP of being “traitors, sellouts, slaves, betrayers, bought off, etc”, but that is hardly the stuff of reasoned debate. And unsurprisingly does lead to exasperation.

            So Wayne where does that leave McLay and Reti in the reasoned debate continuum

            SO Wayne why would mcClay NOT answer the Normans question
            AND
            Why was Reti so wrong.

            Is that the level of debate you are referring to?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.1.1.2

            When you pretend that all opposition is couched in such extreme terms, Dr. Mapp. you reveal that you are unwilling (incapable?) to engage with the fact that opposition stems in large part from the argument that the TPPA is a restraint of trade agreement.

            You’ve been made aware of this enough times now that your refusal to even acknowledge it is starting to look dishonest. Either that or very very stupid.

            Which is it?

            • Wayne 11.2.1.1.2.1

              It is only a restraint of trade agreement in respect of extended patent terms, which also occurred under WTO 1994.

              In all other respects it will expand trade. That is after all the major point of such agreements.

              • Tautoko Mangō Mata

                Trade rules are putting our world at risk. Here is yet another example of the stupidity of elevating trade above all other considerations.

                “The World Trade Organization (WTO) on Wednesday ruled against India over its national solar energy program in a case brought by the U.S. government, sparking outrage from labor and environmental advocates.

                As power demands grow in India, the country’s government put forth a plan to create 100,000 megawatts of energy from solar cells and modules, and included incentives to domestic manufacturers to use locally-developed equipment.

                According to Indian news outlets, the WTO ruled that India had discriminated against American manufacturers by providing such incentives, which violates global trade rules, and struck down those policies—siding with the U.S. government in a case that the Sierra Club said demonstrates the environmentally and economically destructive power of pro-corporate deals like the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).”
                http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/08/27/wto-ruling-against-indias-solar-push-threatens-climate-clean-energy

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Bollocks.

                The major point (if by “point” you mean human benefit) of such agreements is to extend the positive influence of invention and technology within the rule of law. Meanwhile, your mates pass legislation that fundamentally conflicts with the rule of law (as a law commissioner I’m sure you’re aware of this) and let’s not forget that according to your political allies owner/donors, corporations are people.

                Blabbermouth Lusk let the cat out of the bag, You’re shilling for the Yanks much?

          • Johan 11.2.1.1.3

            Wayne your naivety is stunning!!! Certainly, you do not live life under a bubble???

        • Wayne 11.2.1.2

          Ad,

          Well I think Fran O’Sullivan would agree with you. The government does need to do a better job in selling the merits of TPP.

          TPP stated out as P5 and New Zealand was a central player. Once Canada, Japan, Mexico and the US were in, the negotiations were always going to be dominated by these nations. On some issues we can make common cause with them, but on others it is harder to do so. But ironically vis a vis Japan, NZ and the US are pretty much on the same side when it comes to improved agricultural access. And that then helps NZ vis a vis the US, since it is hard for the US to argue for improved agricultural access to Japan without also improving agricultural access to its own markets.

          Anyway all this should be clear enough soon enough. Either TPP succeeds in the next three months or it is off for some years. One would imagine President Obama will want to push hard for success. Failure on a flagship policy like this not only damages his own legacy, it will also damage to overall reputation of the US among the other 11 nations, since the US would be seen as unable to deliver. Not that would concern too many people on this site.

          Incidentally my earlier comment (11.2.1.1) was directed to One Anonymous Bloke.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.1.2.1

            As I said, telling lies about the ratification process while character assassinating all opponents leaves you no moral high ground in this debate, Mapp.

          • Tautoko Mangō Mata 11.2.1.2.2

            The problem is that the product (TPPA) that the salesmen are trying to sell has little merit. More BS is not going to change the fact.

      • dv 11.2.2

        SO Wayne why would mcClay NOT answer the Normans question
        AND
        Why was Reti so wrong.

        Is that the level of debate you are referring to?

        • Wayne 11.2.2.1

          dv

          Shane Reti is right, but only in respect to enabling legislation.

          The parliament does not get to modify the agreement itself. And indeed neither does any other nation. That is the point of the fast track approval in the US. It is an up or down vote.

          But if there is enabling legislation required to implement a part of TPP then Parliament has all the rights that it has with any other legislation. But off course the Government will be introducing such legislation to implement TPP, so in practice it would vote down any amendment that thwarted that intention.

          • dv 11.2.2.1.1

            AND McClay refusal to answer?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.2.1.2

            Oh sure, you just won’t call it “the restraining PHARMAC Act”, will you. How about the “tilting the playing field in the favour of the strongest act”?

            Too honest?

          • lprent 11.2.2.1.3

            Not to mention that the majority of the changes required will probably not require much legislation because

            1. They can be handled by orders in council.
            2. As an actual free trade economy we already had most of the required changes.

            Look at real free trade deals like the Chinese or Korean FTAs. In both cases the legislative changes were minimal to the point of being non-existent.

            The few legislative changes that will need to go forward to the house are the restraint of trade changes. For instance lengthening copyright provisions, adding in patent laws of software, removing the ability to parallel imports, etc. Since all of these will be on phased changes. The legislation is unlikely to be needed for years, or even up to a decade depending on what the negotiated came up with.

            So I’d expect your gutless ex-colleagues to NOT put legislation forward immediately, but instead to put it through as far down the timetrack as possible for purely political reasons. The only things that they will put in front of the house in the months AFTER signing the treaty are the things that they have to by the unknown terms of the agreement. My guess is that Groser will have forward loaded those with patsy changes. Ones that would not normally be disagreed with.

            I’d expect that any controversial demands from the TPPA agreement will be loaded into parliament as late as possible. Before the end of the term, and probably before the campaigning season kicks off. They will be passed through under urgency using a slim majority. And done so to bind a subsequent government.

            If National feels that they are going to lose, then they will leave them for the next government as a poisoned chalice.

            This is a variant of the same bullshit you have been sprouting for years. Effectively parliament has no real effect on the TPPA after the executive council signs it. There is no accountability for the executive council to parliament.

            Nope. National needs to get widespread cross-party support from the house of more than 60-70% for the TPPA – just like what happened in every other treaty I know of. If it is signed by these idiots in National without cross bench support, we need just repudiate it next change of government. Basically Tim Groser is a political idiot if he thinks he can push this through on just with the executive.

            We also need to remove that ability of the crown and the executive council to bind the country without the widespread support of parliament.

            • RedLogix 11.2.2.1.3.1

              We also need to remove that ability of the crown and the executive council to bind the country without the widespread support of parliament.

              And watching Australian politics I’m increasingly convinced NZ is far too vulnerable to the fiats of a single Cabinet.

              In my opinion, democracy in Australia is in a lot better health. Sure it isn’t perfect, it’s loud, tough and in your face. Sure Abbott is a thug – but the conversation around his government is not stifled as it is with Key’s. The two Houses and State governments DO provide counterbalancing voices.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                “Thug”

                In his dreams he’s a thug. In reality, he’s just another lame right wing incompetent who has fewer life skills than most thugs.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.3

        Cherry-picking the low-hanging fruit, while telling lies about the ratification process.

        Do law commissioners get a cut or is the job itself your reward for such betrayal? Is betrayal too strong a word for your relationship with personal ethics?

      • les 11.2.4

        I doubt that Vietnam would,couldn’t vouch for the rest.

  12. Point 12

    Even if signed it wont be over…how long before the actions by a foreign entity elicit a direct resistance with the capacity to snowball to a purge of unwanted businesses here?

  13. Foreign waka 13

    I don’t get it, surely neither Mr Grosser nor Mr Key are that ignorant or stupid to see what so many point out. The only conclusion is that someone has NZ on the short and curlies? Has the country been sold without any of the people knowing? Also, is it not interesting how the indigenous population has absolutely nothing to say. Something does smell fishy here.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1

      There are too many examples of allegedly knowledgeable intelligent people making utter fools of themselves to count. What makes you think Key or Groser are any different?

      The National Party sells legislation, and exchanges line-toeing for lucrative business opportunities. Do you think its Ministers are clean of this corruption?

      • Foreign waka 13.1.1

        To take this to its conclusion, why then are NZlanders not standing up and demanding their right, having the Bill of Rights, Magna Carta on their side. Where are all the lawyers having been put through University at the peoples expense (not 100% but to a large part)?
        I belief that NZlanders ought to insist on a written constitution. Did you know that only Britain, Israel and NZ have none?

  14. Smilin 14

    Our parliament in its democracy should be entitled to be informed of every piece of the TPPA, whats wrong with that ?Too simple to do whats right in a free society
    Ruling Party prerogative I think not this is against the majority, the masses right to be informed. Double speak , lie to the nation and get away with it .When do the guns start firing Herr Key.
    1984.

  15. Smilin 15

    Our parliament in its democracy should be entitled to be informed of every piece of the TPPA, whats wrong with that ?Too simple to do whats right in a free society
    Ruling Party prerogative I think not this is against the majority, the masses right to be informed. Double speak , lie to the nation and get away with it .When do the guns start firing Herr Key.
    1984.

  16. Smilin 16

    Our parliament in its democracy should be entitled to be informed of every piece of the TPPA, whats wrong with that ?Too simple to do whats right in a free society
    Ruling Party prerogative I think not this is against the majority, the masses right to be informed. Double speak , lie to the nation and get away with it .When do the guns start firing Herr Key.
    1984.

  17. Heather Grimwood 17

    Opposition to TPPA reaching a more urgent phase?…see video on ODT site.

  18. Murray 18

    To impose a TPPA that is negotiated in secret is a total and indefensible violation of democratic principle. I say ten thousand times no. It is quite correctly demanded that international trade should be conducted on a level playing field. Today’s international trade playing field is not level because of farcical exchange rates. Correct farcical exchange rates and the problem will go away. Fail to correct farcical exchange rates and nothing on the face of this earth will promote a level playing field.

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