Nats vs journos

40 comments on “Nats vs journos ”

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1. BeShakey 1

   9 July 2008 at 3:57 pm

   I’m not even sure how I could manage to be ‘misquoted’ that many times if I wanted to. Anyone have any ideas?
2. Ari 2

   9 July 2008 at 4:07 pm

   I’m just waiting for Nicky Hager to “steal” “misquoted” emails that are “personal attacks” on John Key for the Ridiculous National Party Claims trifecta.
3. Tamaki Resident 3

   9 July 2008 at 4:23 pm

   For a brief minute, let’s accept that he was misquoted. What did Shane Ardern really mean to say then?

   ok, the brief minute is now over.
4. Bryan Spondre 4

   9 July 2008 at 4:24 pm

   “National is continuing to follow its policy of keeping its powder dry until closer to the election, and you can’t blame it when it’s 20 points clear in the polls and it obviously bothers Labour so much. Why wouldn’t you keep doing what annoys and frustrates your enemy?”

   Colin Espiner

   Time for Helen to call the election perhaps ?
5. Matthew Pilott 5

   9 July 2008 at 4:35 pm

   Bryan – because it’s anti-democratic.

   Of course, Esipner also said (straight after):

   “Until it does engage in substantive debates, however, it can hardly complain if Labour attacks it over the odd day off, or Key’s share portfolio, or reports on the mutterings of a backbench MP in the Te Awamutu Courier – Labour’s got little else to go on.”

   so I expect you won’t complain again if you think something’s a ‘personal’ attack, or if someone in the National Autocratic party says something that’s not personally vetted by Key and they get blown up about it like here.

   Thanks for pointing that out though!
6. Felix 6

   9 July 2008 at 4:41 pm

   To be fair to Bryan though, Colin’s second paragraph had a couple of multi-syllable words in it. And a Maori one.
7. gobsmacked 7

   9 July 2008 at 5:24 pm

   The comments on Colin Espiner’s blog post are revealing.

   The same phrases are used by commenters making the same point, at 1.55, 2.16, 2.28, 2.29, 2.42 … etc. All on one particular part of the post – all ignoring the other points Colin made.

   Obviously a large number of people around the country all, simultaneously and independently of each other, saw Colin’s blog post and thought exactly the same thing at the same time and, quite coincidentally, expressed it in the same way, with the same words.

   Yes, I’m sure that’s what happened!
8. andy 8

   9 July 2008 at 5:58 pm

   and hope the public buys it until polling day.

   Respectfully I think you have that wrong, it should read “hope the journalists/media buys it until polling day.”

   When the media get over the man crush it will be game on!
9. andy 9

   9 July 2008 at 6:08 pm

   gobsmacked

   I have long thought that some of the more prolific right wing posters here and commenter’s on other blogs (NZ herald ‘your views’in particular) have read the same talking points and posted remarkably similar posts along the party(C/T)lines. one could accuse them of being paid shills..

   My fear is that the same could be said about the left, I hope am horribly wrong on both counts.
10. Blar 10

    9 July 2008 at 6:29 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10396419

    Ahem.
11. Falafulu Fisi 11

    9 July 2008 at 6:56 pm

    Steve Pierson , you must understand that private businesses is private, exactly what the word means. The government forces/coerces private property owners/businesses to donate money which is theirs and not the government. This is what you call state-theft and it is no difference from what the mobs and mafia do, but the difference is, the state legalizes this theft. Business owners are already paying taxes and that should be enough. Workers don’t have rights, private property owners (private businesses) do. It is the same that I don’t have rights to what is in your house as you don’t have rights to what is in my house. What is yours is yours and what is mine is mine.
12. Falafulu Fisi 12

    9 July 2008 at 7:15 pm

    Esipner quoted:
    Until it does engage in substantive debates, however, it can hardly complain if Labour attacks it over the odd day off, or Key’s share portfolio, or reports on the mutterings of a backbench MP in the Te Awamutu Courier – Labour’s got little else to go on.

    No, this is wrong. Policies should be announced by all political parties so that voters know what exactly what each one stands for. To avoid doing so, it means only one thing and that is such party is interested only in power rather than the welfare of the country, which is not exactly why we elected them to parliament to do in the first place.

    Not PC blog did blog about the benefit of stolen policies, which it should be encouraged.
13. Felix 13

    9 July 2008 at 7:40 pm

    That’s not how you spell faeces.
14. lemsip 14

    9 July 2008 at 8:17 pm

    http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/488120/737759
15. Falafulu Fisi 15

    9 July 2008 at 8:25 pm

    Felix said…
    That’s not how you spell faeces.

    Is that an argument or pure trolling? If you have something to say for counter-argument, then bring it on, if your aim is to make fun, ridicule, deride, then sorry, I debate with people who are intelligent, not daft & intellectual handicapped people like you, because to do so, it would be a waste of my time.

    I hope that moderators here (Tane, et al) banned you , since Tane was on record in blogosphere stating the he doesn’t like racist comment such as the one above.
16. Bryan Spondre 16

    9 July 2008 at 8:35 pm

    Falafulu Fisi: “Policies should be announced by all political parties so that voters know what exactly what each one stands for.”

    Agree Falafulu.Strategically it would be unwise for National to announce their policies too soon before the election. We must not forget that Michael Cullen has a recently announced, “un-expected” surplus that he could use to Labours advantage.

    Felix: I see you have been to the same “Play the man, not the ball” Labour Party debating seminar at the Owen Glenn Business School as your colleague T Rex.
17. Bryan Spondre 17

    9 July 2008 at 8:44 pm

    Falafulu Fisi: “This is what you call state-theft and it is no difference from what the mobs and mafia do, but the difference is, the state legalizes this theft.”

    Yep, socialists seem to struggle grasping the concept that the money they so freely spend is “other peoples money”.
18. DS 18

    9 July 2008 at 8:58 pm

    –Yep, socialists seem to struggle grasping the concept that the money they so freely spend is “other peoples money’.–

    Without the social contract (of which taxes are a part) you would have no property.
19. T-rex 19

    9 July 2008 at 9:25 pm

    Bryan, I’m busy, I don’t have time right now to play with my own balls, let alone yours. Please stop going on about it, it’s getting awkward.
20. Draco TB 20

    9 July 2008 at 10:32 pm

    private businesses is private

    Business is only private when it doesn’t have any affect on anyone else. As soon as it does then that person or society has complete and total veto over that business.

    The government forces/coerces private property owners/businesses to donate money which is theirs and not the government. This is what you call state-theft and it is no difference from what the mobs and mafia do, but the difference is, the state legalizes this theft.

    Those businesses are free to leave if they don’t like the rules.

    Workers don’t have rights, private property owners (private businesses) do.

    Workers do have rights and they are protected by law. You may not like it but, like I said, you can leave if you don’t like the rules.

    Yep, socialists seem to struggle grasping the concept that the money they so freely spend is “other peoples money’.

    When you live in a society then you have a personal responsibility to help maintain that society in a viable state. This, in a modern society such as NZ, costs money – quite a lot of it. Being a good conservative who believes in upholding their personal responsibility you wouldn’t be trying to disavow said responsibility would you?
21. KenS 21

    10 July 2008 at 12:55 am

    Yawn. Don’t you guys have an upcomming election loss to spin or something?
22. Dean 22

    10 July 2008 at 1:11 am

    “I have long thought that some of the more prolific right wing posters here and commenter’s on other blogs (NZ herald ‘your views’in particular) have read the same talking points and posted remarkably similar posts along the party(C/T)lines. one could accuse them of being paid shills..”

    Whereas your talking points are Labour’s demon of the week, in this case Crosby/Textor. For bonus points, throw in some more exclusive brethren (chinless scarf wearers to you, the party faithful), haters and wreckers (thats those guys your party would like to form a coalition with), last cabs off the rank (ditto) or even some feral inbreds (constituents of a long time Labour stronghold electorate seat).

    Hey, are Crosby/Textor also by any chance members of the exclusive brethren? Imagine if it were so. You’d whip yourself into an absolute frenzy over that one.
23. r0b 23

    10 July 2008 at 1:29 am

    This post touched a nerve did it Dean? Hmmmm.

    And say, while we’re dredging through the quote file, aren’t you thrilled to know that the National Party describes its extreme supporters, such as yourself, as “barking mad”?

    Something to think about eh. Good night Dean.
24. Oliver 24

    10 July 2008 at 2:09 am

    Attacking journos, din’t Helen have a go at journos and then refuse to release thee tape of her speech untill the ombudsman made her?
25. Razorlight 25

    10 July 2008 at 3:16 am

    Oliver, that is correct.

    And then she blamed Labour’s misfortunes on cartoons appearing in the Herald. She even went as far as to say that they had been unkind to the Labour Party for the past 90 years.

    SP you have said this is from the Crosby/Textor playbook.

    I have two points.

    Firstly this was obviously a gaffe from a National MP. Big mistake. And very silly thing to say. But I think you give CT to much credit. It is not some high paid consultant shooting the messenger. It is the man who made the mistake trying to cover his arse. Nothing more nothing less.

    Secondly, every time National opens their mouth you use it as evidence that CT is running the show. But if shooting the messenger is a CT tactic then Clark must be consulting them as well as shown above. In fact every time you say CT is being used I believe we could pull out a similar use of that tactic by the Labour party.
26. Ari 26

    10 July 2008 at 4:40 am

    FYI: There’s a big difference between releasing a press statement saying you disagree with the media and simply bludgeoning the media into posting a retraction/”correction” of a story just because you don’t like it. The former promotes free speech and public debate, the latter ends it.

    The whole taxation/theft hobby-horse you guys like to get on isn’t even tangentally relevant to this post. There are plenty of posts about taxation and public services where you can deny that you have any responsibility to the wider community to your heart’s content.

    Bryan: I’ll reconfirm this later, but I’m quite sure that the surplus you refer to is spent and overspent providing the ridiculous tax cuts you wanted.

    No, this is wrong. Policies should be announced by all political parties so that voters know what exactly what each one stands for. To avoid doing so, it means only one thing and that is such party is interested only in power rather than the welfare of the country, which is not exactly why we elected them to parliament to do in the first place.

    I think what you’re essentially saying here is “But I agree!” Until a party is willing to give the principles it stands on and the policy it intends to implement, there is nothing to debate except the integrity of the people in said party. The policies should be released because then Labour and National have a chance to debate over how their policies disagree, instead of playing incessant attack politics.

    And yes, I agree that it says something about National that they quickly retract any policy leaks that prove unpopular- that they’re more interested in a term in power at any cost than openly announcing their principles- which is itself worrying as it suggests you might not get what you vote for if they win.
27. travellerev 27

    10 July 2008 at 7:58 am

    All those damn journos misinterpreting whatever we say their just conspiracy theorists (John Key about Nicky Hager). LOL.

    Oh by the way T-rex I owe you an apology. I just watched the documentary about the collapse of WTC 7 and it all makes sense to me now. I can see why the buildings including WTC 7 could collapse due to fire. I wish they explained it a little bit sooner I would not have had to go through all that ridicule and agony. But hey here you have it: My apologies.

    For all of you who want to to see the riddle finally solved:
    http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/th-bbc-announces-the-mystery-of-wtc-7-is-solved/

    Captcha: Printemps(Spring) ought. Yes, Spring really ought to come, it’s bloody cold here.
28. T-rex 28

    10 July 2008 at 8:21 am

    Hi Travellerev,

    Really? Or are you just trying to trick me into going and watching a documentary by Dylon Avery 😉

    Anyway, if you are serious, no worries. I was never really annoyed at you anyway, just frustrated. The people who p*ss me off are the various engineers etc that you referenced who should have been honest advocates but instead decided to turn it into a bit of publicity for themselves. Nevermind!

    And yes, it’s cold. I’m going to be over near your homeland shortly, looking forward to houses that actually have insulation.
29. travellerev 29

    10 July 2008 at 8:28 am

    T-rex,

    This is the official BBC documentary aired on Monday this week.
30. Dean 30

    10 July 2008 at 9:31 am

    “And say, while we’re dredging through the quote file, aren’t you thrilled to know that the National Party describes its extreme supporters, such as yourself, as “barking mad’?”

    Who said I was a National supporter? Only you, r0b, and only because it suits you.
31. Pascal's bookie 31

    10 July 2008 at 9:39 am

    Shorter Dean:

    “How dare you suggest that I am only ‘barking’ mad. Those nambypamby ‘barking mad’ people and their quisling National Party are objectively pro sanity. Wibble.”
32. r0b 32

    10 July 2008 at 10:32 am

    PB – quite right. Do you suppose he has pencils up his nose and underpants on his head?

    Travellerev: This is the official BBC documentary aired on Monday this week.

    I actually let this vid run full time in the background. For a long long time I couldn’t decide if it was pro conspiracy or anti. Towards the end it starts to come together and present the anti conspiracy case fairly cogently.

    Given that Travellerev is promoting this video I’ll tentatively conclude that she is sincere in her new understanding of the building collapses. If so, that’s a remarkable achievement, I can count the number of times I have seen people change their mind on firmly held convictions on rather less than the fingers of one hand.
33. Dean 33

    10 July 2008 at 7:42 pm

    Pascal, r0b. I realise that this is difficult for you to understand given your Labour Good. National Bad ethics, but not everyone that dislikes Labour automatically likes National.

    Shocking, but true.
34. Ari 34

    10 July 2008 at 8:18 pm

    So, Dean, do you support Act, United Future, or are you one of the Disenchanted Labour Supporters who are going to protest-vote, that seem to bear marked similarity to trolls?

    And Dean- I think given some of the things I’ve said about Labour now and then, the regulars around the blogosphere know that even lefties can dislike Labour enough to call them names 😉
35. Dean 35

    10 July 2008 at 11:01 pm

    Well Ari, this year I’m going to vote for the party that behaves in the most adult-like manner in parliament.

    Which rules out Labour, with their myriad childish, petulant insults hurled not only across the debating chamber at the baby eating National and Act parties, but also to any other group that dares to have a difference of opinion. I mean, just imagine being an Exclusive Brethren from Greymouth who opposed the foreshore and seabed legislation – you could get quite a complex if you listened to Clark and co’s opinions of you. Hell, good old SP made a post about how “Nasty” the Nats are, but I bet he won’t be drawn on Labour’s repeated “take your pills” jibes thrown at Nick Smith. Nope, Labour are a bunch of, in their own words, feral inbreds.

    It also rules out National, because although they’re a lot less childish and petulant it’s only because they haven’t been given a chance behind the Treasure benches for so long. You can read it on their faces. I can’t really say as I blame them though – after listening to Clark, Mallard and Cullen harp on about all those failed reforms theyve yet to reverse, together with their tragic one liners. It’d be like listening to 9 years worth of “yo mamma” jokes. I’d want payback too most likely. Even if just for a little while.

    NZ First – are a big, fat joke in pretty much every way conceivable. So no go there.

    United Future – probably even worse than NZ First.

    Greens – Although I have strong issues with their policies I think they’ll probably get my vote this time. I cannot stand almost everything they stand for, but at least they behave like rational, intelligent adults.

    Maori Party – They may get my other vote, if only to show them that not everybody things the same way Helen does. Boys and girls, you’re so not haters and wreckers.
36. travellerev 36

    11 July 2008 at 4:49 am

    T-rex and r0b,
    I’m sorry, I really thought they did it. It looked so plausible.
    but then this interview with Barry Jennings started to make the rounds
    and now I’m all confused again.
    http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2008/07/10/alex-jones%E2%80%99-prison-planetcom-barry-jennings-uncut/
37. T-rex 37

    11 July 2008 at 9:07 am

    Hi Travellerev,

    It’s all good. You’re free to believe what you like, as long as you’re keeping an open mind. Seems like you are, so you’re ok in my book (even though I think you’re wrong).

    Dean – That’s very odd. Your justifications are very, very close to mine. I agree, the Greens are pretty much the only people in parliament that behave like grown ups. I’ve got a reasonable amount of respect for David Carter, and there’s a couple of others scattered around too, but the Greens are certainly the only party for whom it’s by any means the norm.

    Do you really oppose everything they stand for? I mean I can understand you might not like their methods – but their goals?

    If you’ve got some time, have a read through some of their policies. There are some smart people in their crowd – they’re not just idealistic hippies. That’s resulted in some smart policy. Jeanette Fitzsimons knows far more about energy and transport policy that Brownlee ever will.
38. Travellerev 38

    11 July 2008 at 12:04 pm

    God T-rex your such a patronising sod.

    It would be nice if you opened up your mind a bit. Have you seen the interiew with Barry Jennings? No, I didn’t think so.
    A first hand account of the guy who was one of two stuck in the WTC 7 building for hours after allmost getting killed in an explosion in the WTC 7 before any of the towers had collapsed and you won’t see it because your to yellow belly you may have to review your paradigm.
39. T-rex 39

    11 July 2008 at 12:13 pm

    Travellerev.

    Grow up. You think I’m wrong, I think you’re wrong. Given that I’m an engineer and you think you’ve got a car that runs on magic water, I’d say if anything I’m being quite generous with a “hey, who’s to say what’s correct” approach. The reason I won’t watch your stupid videos is that they all take about half an hour to get to the point, and the point ends up being something like “this weird smudge just here could be a missile”. Get over it.

    All of your arguments are riddled with logical flaws and poor science. I’m not going to argue the point with you again – go back to the other thread and spend some more time shouting in a vacumn if you like, I’ll wait for the official report.
40. travellerev 40

    11 July 2008 at 5:48 pm

    Yep, patronising and yellow belly.

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