No mates Simon
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10:48 am, February 7th, 2020 - 86 comments
Categories: jacinda ardern, Maori Issues, maori party, Maori seats, national, Politics, racism, racism, same old national, Simon Bridges -
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The repercussions from Simon Bridges’ disastrous Waitangi performance continue to reverberate.
He did not show up for Waitangi Day itself an chose to mark that most important of National days by engaging in some dog whistling.
From Charlie Dreaver at Radio New Zealand:
National Party leader Simon Bridges has added the Waitangi Tribunal to the list of what he thinks New Zealand should eventually do away with.
He said at Waitangi this week that he and his party believed Māori electorate seats should eventually go.
Bridges cited the Royal Commission in 1986, which proposed that if the country adopted the MMP system, it should abolish the Māori electorates.
That logic still stood, he said.
“We have more Māori in Parliament today than in a very long time under a MMP environment, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to impose that. In fact, the reality of the situation we are in New Zealand at the moment is that it is a long time coming.
“It does have to be with Māori, with iwi there does have to be consultation, you would need to see Māori voices realistically proposing that the time has come,” he said.
Bridges said the same may also be true for the Waitangi Tribunal.
“When we have moved past grievance, which I hope all New Zealanders would like to see at some point in time and those historic[al] issues with settlements have been full and final, you do have to say what is the role of the Waitangi Tribunal?” he said.
While many people would say a new, updated role for the tribunal should be found, Bridges said that was not his view.
His Waitangi Tribunal comments are disappointing. The Tribunal reports represent some of the most important jurisprudence that the country has.
And Article 2 created an ongoing responsibility for the Crown to ensure Māori enjoys “the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures”. The obligation does not extinguish. Ensuring that guaranteed rights under the Tribunal are respected could provide the Tribunal with business for generations to come.
As for the Māori seats when Māori elect in sufficient numbers to go onto the general electoral roll then perhaps their future can be reviewed. Until then they should stay. Which is what he sort of said when he said “you would need to see Māori voices realistically proposing that the time has come”. But the dog whistle had clearly been blown by then.
Bridges’ rhetoric has put the Māori Party into a difficult situation. And they have responded by indicating it is more likely they will side with Labour if elected.
From Jo Moir at Radio New Zealand:
National Party leader Simon Bridges has talked about a resurgent Māori Party as a potential ally, but it may not have a willing partner, with the Māori Party President Che Wilson indicating a strong preference for Labour.
“We’re clear that our people align more to Labour and so we are open to having a conversation with Labour.
“If we ever do talk to National it will have to be a big deal for us to move that way again,” Wilson said.
“The perception and reputation by aligning with National affected us.”
“It kicked us out and so it would have to be a pretty impressive package for us to consider it,” he said.
This is an important development. There is talk of John Tamihere running in Tamaki Makaurau for the Māori Party. Their willingness to openly discuss a relationship with Labour dampens the argument that they should be supported.
I get the feeling this is a finely calibrated play by Bridges to shore up support on the right by engaging in some good old fashioned Maori bashing. I hope his calibration is wrong.
Because things are changing. Jacinda Ardern has helped to transform Waitangi Day into something we all can be proud of.
Simon Wilson, who has written some wonderful articles on Waitangi has said this about Waitangi this year:
… things have changed at Waitangi, for the better. The pleasure on people’s faces – all kinds of people – is palpable.
It’s not that race relations, poverty and inequality have been consigned to history. Nor that everything is now sweetness and light. Passions still run high, some higher than ever.
But a space for reflection has been created and, in that space, it’s become clear the loudest people are not always the most passionate people, and anger isn’t the only passion. The sense of respect is strong, the sense of discourse too. Nothing much gets thrown.
If you could get everyone to visit, or if you could bottle the spirit of Waitangi and put it in every town’s water supply, we’d be such a richer country.
I hope that Simon’s dog whistling fails. Aotearoa New Zealand is far too wonderful a place to be ruined by his Trumpian derived nonsense.
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Kua hinga te manawa kairākau o Te Rua Tekau Ma Waru Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po! Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro! Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te Pō ...2 weeks ago
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It isn't anything Winston hasn't said before.
In fact she is classic nicking his policy after saying you won't work with him in the vain hope of grabbing some of his voters.
Pretty desperate stuff tbf
This is all very calculated stuff. Nothing he said can't be spun as good common sense, and so if Labour or the "left" get up n arms then Simon can just point out he didn't mean now for either, but when their job is done. But all the racists hear is that National are on their side. Even this sort of post, which is nice and rational, will help to fuel the "national are common sense and the left are not" sort of response.
It is sort of sad that we are here in our collective evolution….
The concept of the Maori party is ridiculous. If a party formed that purported to represent Anglo-Celtic New Zealanders it would rightly be ridiculed given the diverse range of opinions within the New Zealand Anglo-Celtic community. The Maori Party is really the party of conservative Maori (i.e. those who support the traditional Maori structures). It would be more appropriate to call them the Conservative Iwi party.
The concept of the Act Party is ridiculous.
Fify.
The concept of the ACT party is entirely consistent with a socially liberal and economically individualistic party on the political spectrum. It is no more ridiculous than a socially liberal and economically collectivist party.
The idea of a "socially liberal and economically individualistic party" is perfectly fine on the political spectrum. If only we had a party like that….
Hint: ACT are not that party… they are the party that National put the more radical policies so that they don't have to campaign on them, but can then enact them if they get in on the grounds that they are the cost of coalition building…
As soon as ACT show they are their own party with their own unique and original ideas then they can claim to be a real party
You have no clue how ACT works as a political party. I assure you National has no impact on what policies ACT decides to promote.
Depends on whether they want to keep having their cups of tea.
Perfect riposte.
Hahahahaha!
no, just on their continued survival. sort of like the rent boy party.
twerk for daddy
True, but then National decides which of ACT's policies they implement as part of any coalition agreement – so they may as well do.
But ACT has considerable influence on what policies National is told to promote. And that is why so many people hate it so much.
"As soon as ACT show they are their own party with their own unique and original ideas then they can claim to be a real party"
Well, not that I am in any way an ACT supporter, I think that Seymour’s End of Life Choice Bill – possibly one of the most contentious Bill every before the NZ Parliament and which was passed (69-51) in Nov 2019 – certainly met those criteria!
And while voting on all stages of the Bill was on the basis of personal not party votes (although NZF and the Greens each block voted), a strident group of National Party MPs were certainly the most vocal against it, filibustering at every stage of its passage through the House. Proportionally, the number of National MPs voting against it was the highest of any Party.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12284982
Background etc
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12285000
Breakdown of MPs voting
It remains to be seen whether it will get the numbers to come into force in the referendum on 19 Sept 2020 …
Nothing new here from National. They've always made it kind of clear that they'd feel better if we did away with Maori altogether. Always makes me laugh when National supporters say to me "why can't we all just be one people?" and I say "excellent idea, let's all be Maori." That doesn't seem to go down too well for some reason.
Most National voters are all for total assimilation and annihilation of the Maori as a race, albeit it mainly unconscious. After all, "they don't have a racist bone in their body."
"Most National voters are all for total assimilation and annihilation of the Maori as a race, albeit it mainly unconscious."
WTF?
It is a bridge too far to say 'most National voters are all for total assimilation and annihilation of the Maori.' There is no proof of that, just a wild guess. Now if Curia were to do a survey amongst National supporters about whether they're for assimilation or annihilation they'd know for sure.
Incorporating the 'Trumpian derived nonsense' another question could be asked too: 'Do you think all Maori should be behind a wall?' Simon Bridges would be just the type to ask that sort of thing I reckon given the way he operates .
I wouldn't guess what the result of asking that would be, but from my observations I think that a significant number of National voters would go for that option rather than others. I can imagine the earnest, "No, I wouldn't get rid of them but they should be behind a wall." I should put the suggestion on Kiwiblog to see what happens! No need, I know what'd happen.
Because it is okay to label most right wing people in NZ potential genocidal psychopaths if you are left wing it seems.
I’m always amused with statements like you have written here CT. Back it up with some sort of facts or be accepted as the bigot you seem to be. The fact that you feel you know how I think or any one else for that matter shows you to be acting like the mentally challenged individual that you seem to be.
I think annihilation is a bit strong. It's more that they want them to sit down, shut up and let the affluent white men in suits run the show. You know, because National is apparently 'the natural party of government'.
Oh no, National party supporters aren't genocidal just outright racists. That is much better and therefore again doesn't require any supporting evidence it seems.
Well, it's not like removing the Māori seats and the Waitangi Tribunal would be sending a message to Māori that they are welcome to keep asserting their rights.
You are assuming that keeping the Maori seats is entirely in the interests of Maori and therefore all Maori support their retention. Simon Bridges has Maori heritage and he does not see any need for them so your assumption is wrong.
Your assumption is that bridges is putting the interests of Māori before his personal interests as a politician.
The concept of Bridges speaking for all Māori is rediculous. If a single pakeha politician were held up as a purported representative of all pakeha it would rightly be ridiculed given the diverse range of opinions within the pakeha community. Someone wrote something similar about the Māori Party upthread, you should maybe have a chat with them, you hypocrite.
Winston
"Two Wongs don't make a white"
Labour
Lets find us some Asiany sounding last names and blame them for the housing issues, while not bothering to check if they are residents, citizens or born here.
In fact the purpose of the exercise was to do exactly that. Link up purchasers with residency status. No data was collected at that point, deliberately in my opinion.
There was evidently a big difference in the number of house sales to people 'with Asian names' relative to the number of citizens and residents 'with Asian names'.
Clearly many houses were being bought by offshore interests by proxy and anecdotal evidence supported that.
This was causing a huge distortion in the NZ market and the National government were deliberatey ignoring it.
Something bold had to be done and look at the sudden changes made immediately afterward:
Brightline tests and NZ tax numbers required.
Thanks Phil!!!
I'm an everday-ish Kiwi from an everyday-ish-Kiwi family & group of friends who has stood in a room in an work environment or wider family gathering & heard derogatory things said about Maori that are completely generalised & far from the truth. In the work place I was able to object but with little effect but I aired my discomfort & lived with the "label" afterwards – I wasn't close enough to any of those people to know their political alliances or even if they had any. On the "family" side I do have a clear picture of how they see the world and their politics. They like anyone are entitled to their opinion, nothing will change that and in deference to those who would be saddened or hurt by seeing family engage in disagreements over our views I prefer to distance myself from the urge to "say something". I have some time back in the past & it was ugly and resolved nothing plus ir was my strong belief that that none of the people being disparaged needed my defending anything because it was generalised rubbish anyway. I've seen these things because it is assumed by those saying it that I will have similar beliefs when it comes to Maori as they do, those experiences told me long ago that right-leaning voters often do hold racist opinions in NZ – a lot of the time they are two-faced about it when they see a reason to beI'm an everday-ish Kiwi from an everyday-ish-Kiwi family & group of friends who has stood in a room in an work environment or wider family gathering & heard derogatory things said about Maori that are completely generalised & far from the truth. In the work place I was able to object but with little effect but I aired my discomfort & lived with the "label" afterwards – I wasn't close enough to any of those people to know their political alliances or even if they had any. On the "family" side I do have a clear picture of how they see the world and their politics. They like anyone are entitled to their opinion, nothing will change that and in deference to those who would be saddened or hurt by seeing family engage in disagreements over our views I prefer to distance myself from the urge to "say something". I have some time back in the past & it was ugly and resolved nothing plus ir was my strong belief that that none of the people being disparaged needed my defending anything because it was generalised rubbish anyway. I've seen these things because it is assumed by those saying it that I will have similar beliefs when it comes to Maori as they do, those experiences told me long ago that right-leaning voters often do hold racist opinions in NZ – a lot of the time they are two-faced about it when they see a reason to be
Not even a "In my opinion"
Reread the first two words.
Yeah. That was in relation to the term annihilation not the rest of the sentiment which is presented as fact not opinion..
Except that the entire paragraph follows on from those two words, leaving it as implicit.
This would be the 11 millionth case where you parse human syntax like a computer rather than a human being, lol
He's being deliberately obtuse. It's what he does so he can feel justified in riding his tricycle around the thread in feigned outrage.
I should really know better than to respond at all.
It is not implicit. The "I think" was ONLY in relation to the first part of the sentence.
No, it wasn't. But what do I know? I'm just the one who wrote it. I bow before your superior wisdom, Gossie.
No, Gosman. You are wrong. 'I think' introduced the entire paragraph.
A new paragraph would be needed to break that link.
I am a teacher of languages. You are a troll, failing in this case to be clever.
I agree. The nat proposal certainly gives the impression that they just want certain people to shut up, and removing Māori representation and legal avenues is one way to do that.
You are wrong. National has no problem with Maori expressing their views in any way they choose to do so. They just don't think they should have a unique way of doing so in our electoral system. This shouldn't be a controversial view. The Treaty of Waitangi made no mention of special representation within a democratic system merely their rights, culture, and possessions would be protected. There are many ways this can happen.
cf:
Yes. They should express their views in the same democratic method as the rest of the population.
And yet the WT might be the way they choose to do so.
Do we all have recourse to the WT ? In which case there is nothing wrong with it. If you think we have recourse to it please advise me what I could take to it as a NZ European
Any prerequisite for this discussion would be a real injustice where Māori violated the Treaty and stole land or resources from your ancestors.
Next you'll be complaining that ACC won't give you a wheelchair just because you have full mobility and balance.
Really? How would you describe tino rangatiratanga?
He's going to pull the english version out of his arse and pretend like he has never discussed these issues before.
Wiki says:
I'd add that Maori electorates were clearly created in order for the Treaty's contents to be brought forward and upheld in a time when they were not.
What has changed? Warfare between Settlers and Maori is no longer but conservative power-brokers continue to delegitimise Maori taonga with such actions as attempting to eradicate the Maori language, a national language, from the state broadcaster.
This is the kind of insidious cultural genocide to which riffer clumsily referenced and one which strong Maori representation in parliament guards against.
Our Pakeha parliament setting aside 4 Māori seats is hard to see as an expression of tino rangatiratanga.
Had those Maori chiefs who signed the treaty in 1840 had even the slightest notion of what was to happen to them, both socially and politically over the next thirty years I venture to suggest that the Treaty would not have been signed at all or would have looked very different from the document they put their names to. One of the more important policies of our present government is that NZ history will be taught in all schools. As a result it is to be hoped that young students will be exposed to such outrageous injustices as the one quoted below:
“Prendergast was attorney-general from 1865 to 1875, and then chief justice of the Supreme Court until 1899.
The Wi Parata case involved a block of land at Porirua, which Ngāti Toa had given to the Anglican church on the understanding a school would be built on it. Though no school was built, the church was later issued a Crown grant to the land.
Prendergast ruled that the courts lacked the ability to consider claims based on aboriginal or native title. The Treaty of Waitangi was ‘worthless’ because it had been signed ‘between a civilised nation and a group of savages’ who were not capable of signing a treaty. Since the treaty had not been incorporated into domestic law, it was a ‘simple nullity’.
Though Prendergast’s ruling was essentially based on earlier Court of Appeal decisions, it would be used to justify the alienation of much more Māori land.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/the-chief-justice-declares-that-the-treaty-of-waitangi-is-worthless-and-a-simple-nullity
gosman apparentley speaks for all national voters, when did you ask them all gosman? please give numbers for proof. ….or sit down and stop being a fool(again)
Can we get some moderators in on this please as it is entirely inappropriate. Even if you want to leave it here surely this person should back up the claim "Most National voters are all for total assimilation and annihilation of the Maori as a race, albeit it mainly unconscious." I know I have been banned for a period for making much less of a claim without supporting evidence.
Here's some pearls Gossie. Get clutching.
Truth hurts.
I'm totally with Gosman on this. The statement he is objecting to is not only wrong, it's offensive.
No surprise there.
It’s not even a little bit true?
If a similar statement was made about most Labour or Green party voters you'd be justified in being offended. But when a leftie puts the boot in, you think it's wonderful. Hypocrisy.
I'm actually surprised I have to explain this.
I'm actually surprised I have to explain this.
Fairness: incomprehensible to a partisan, whether left or right. Tribalism makes politics as team sports non-rules-based. Vestiges of civilisation evaporate.
Why we need deep psychology to decode political behaviour. Tribalism induces death-cult thinking. Hypocrisy never shows up on the internal radar. Win at any cost takes over the mind of the partisan.
So, despite progress being a shibboleth oft cited by leftists, regress is what the partisan ones actually do. Voters learn to ignore the words and learn from the actions. The more leftists regress, the greater the self-harm. Simple cause & effect. Centrists watch this shit with distaste…
I agree with Gosman. Yes, I just wrote that. Making assumptions about an entire group of people is lazy and nonsensical. The statement offered was also offensive.
I do think Gosman can be an obtuse troll, but I do not think that makes all of National the same.
I'd say assimilation (or segregation) is right up there with a significant proportion of National voters.
Gosman reinforces that with almost every comment he makes. That of 'Maori can celebrate Waitangi Day on their own but don't include the rest of us'. That of 'the Waitangi Tribunal should be abolished'. That of 'Maori shouldn't be spoken on the radio (Brash)'.
All of these seek to dilute Maori identity and weaken spirit so as to ultimately be homogenised into the wider New Zealand identity – whatever the hell that would look like if Maori culture were weakened and hidden.
I'm not sure that the people described – generally white, wealthy and right wing realise how much New Zealand culture is intertwined with Maori culture. It literally is our founding event – they just refuse to accept it.
Some people in here need a reminder that Simon Bridges is Māori.
Some of the shit above is just pure nasty.
It is beyond nasty. It does highlight the mindset of a number of far left people though.
Have you seen David Farrar's "Tribute for Waitangi Day"?
What is your point?
It highlights the mindset of a number of far right (and centre right) people.
What mindset does it highlight exactly?
Racism.
Was it left or right that came up with the concept of "Chinese sounding" names?
Can you say, "false equivalence"?
The post was put up under the name Kokila Patel, which dare I say it is an 'Indian sounding name'. Assuming this person is of colour then it is impossible for them to be racist. By definition.
I think it was a joke at the expense of the authors of Tintin. It was making fun of how Tintin is incredibly political incorrect (read racist) by today's standards. I see no suggestion that it should be taken in any other way.
Impressive somersaults there in trying to justify that cartoon which was posted on a very abrasive right wing blog site not known for it's informed and polite discussion.
This is the blog site which had to bring in closed moderation immediately after the Christchurch massacre because there were too many unchecked islamophobic comments getting through previously. Hundreds per day. It was an acceptance by Farrar that his contributors were part of the problem.
I see the cartoon for what it is – a dogwhistle to his base to rise up against Maori identity.
The comments section proves it.
Err no, there were a couple early books Congo and the Russia one that were even by the times standards were racist (1930s), Herge was incredibly embarrassed by them which is why they weren't republished in book form. After that he was very careful about research and sensitivity. There were issues that he kept working through occupation during WW2, but Herge was not a racist. So stick that tired trope where the sun don't shine buddy.
Do you think this is racist?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/land-of-the-long-white-cloud/story/2018721665/land-of-the-long-white-cloud-episode-7-cook-thinks-again
It was funded by taxpayers dollars and it has been promoted by our State owned Radio broadcaster.
Based on his performance at Waitangi, Simon Bridges needs a reminder that Simon Bridges is Maori.
Is there an official body deciding who is and isn't Maori?
What are the criteria?
Is there a similar set of criteria detailing if someone is a valid NZ European?
I wouldn't know. It's entirely possible I'm an invalid NZ European.
Quite possibly if you think there is some sort of criteria which makes you a "proper" Maori.
oh look: someone needing a reminder that they are Māori has morphed into whether someone else dictates whether one is a "proper" Māori – a position only the whinging tory introduced into the thread.
Another gossie masterpiece.
Yes, Gosman, there is such a body. It's Rugby NZ's Maori All Blacks selection panel.
Would Simon Bridge's qualify based on their criteria?
EDIT: Based on this link all he needs it to have his Whakapapa traced and confirmed by the Team Kaumatua and he’s in. Since he definately has Maori heritage and presumably is aware of his Whakapapa then it seems he is a Maori then according to the NZRFU. On a side note it is good to see we are using the NZRFU to decide these matters.
Wasn't John Key the captain of the Maori All Blacks?
No he was the one who said when he gets in power he would abolish the maori seats
Heh heh.
This new chapter is hilarious after simons oh so proud announcement earlier in the week regarding coalition partners.
Never trust a pompous clown with 3 billion dollars of other peoples money to give away,my mother used to tell me.
And did you take any notice?
A bit harsh talking about her own son like that..