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Open Mike 01/01/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 1st, 2018 - 71 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

71 comments on “Open Mike 01/01/2018 ”

  1. Grey Area 1

    Organised fireworks displays are fine but public sales of fireworks should have been banned years ago. More than enough NZers prove twice each year they are too stupid/careless/selfish to use them responsibly.

    Coromandel bushfire

    ‘Idiotic’ revellers

    • James 1.1

      Organised fire works are fine – until they are not:


      As for the links you posted don’t ban them for normal people – instead try punishing the idiots who are not responsible – make them financially accountable for the cleanup

      Else you should ban alcohol because of drunk idiots
      Ban cars because idiot people who speed
      Ban knives because idiot people stab others

      Etc etc. banning is not the answer.

      • weka 1.1.1

        We do regulate drinking and driving already.

        Banning is a useful thing to do because it easily *prevents fire damage. Punishing the fire starter after people’s houses have burnt down doesn’t help the people whose houses burnt down. Nor does it help the ecosystems destroyed.

        According to Southern Rural Fire, there is already a ban in many places in Otago.

        “A Prohibited Fire Season requires a total fire ban and/or the suspension of certain operations that pose a fire risk. During a Prohibited Fire Season gas barbeques are authorised however the lighting of fires in the open air or use of fireworks or pyrotechnics is prohibited.”


        • Carolyn_Nth

          I recommend, restricting private setting off of fireworks to winter months – November, and possibly June for Matariki. That is when there is less likelihood of dry conditions.

          Also possibly lower the level of noise allowed. Safety measures seem to be around safe use – eg sparklers. Maybe the government could look at the kind of fireworks likely to start fires.

      • Organised fire works are fine – until they are not:

        Shit happens but it’s less likely to happen when things are done by professionals maintaining good standards.

        As for the links you posted don’t ban them for normal people

        Have you got any proof that the drunk fucks in the 4wd weren’t normal?

        Else you should ban alcohol because of drunk idiots
        Ban cars because idiot people who speed
        Ban knives because idiot people stab others

        Etc etc. banning is not the answer.

        We have rules and regulations for the minority of people who aren’t responsible, to be able to hold them to account when they inevitably fuckup. Thing is, for fireworks it’s pretty much impossible to hold the idiots to account because it’s almost impossible to figure out who set off the firework that causes the damage.

        That means we only have one option – limiting the availability of fireworks to organised events and stopping the public sale of them.

    • Graeme 1.2

      And then we get this


      I cry

      Skippers homestead burnt to the ground last night.

      DOC staff and volunteers put a huge effort into restoring this building and it was an asset to our community. And a very beautiful and special place.

      No one’s saying very much because Police are trying to figure out what happened.

      • weka 1.2.1

        really sorry to hear that.

        • Graeme

          Hopefully there’s an innocent explanation. Paradise homestead burnt down not long age too, and that was accidental.

          Just hope something can be put together to replace it.

          • weka

            oh, I didn’t know about Paradise 🙁

            Sometimes shit happens, but I think we’re possibly losing skills as well. People have always done stupid things, but I think there are more people around now who think they can do something but don’t really know how.

            • weka

              Part of the fire thing is also climate change and the fact that some people haven’t caught up with just how dry things are getting now.

              • Antoine

                Is any part of NZ now, on average, drier than it used to be? Keen to see the stats on this


                • Sabine

                  so you are gonna share the stats that you find – after all you are keen to see them – or you expect someone to serve you the stats on a plate?

                • weka

                  tend to agree with Sabine on this. Why not look it up yourself and share what you find? Depends on what you want to measure. Rainfall? Drought? Heat? Humidity? Soil moisture? Moisture content and respiration rates in plants?

                  Talking to people who spend time outside where it matters is good too (gardeners, farmers, biologists, ecologists, fire fighters).

                • Antoine

                  I’m pretty sure no part of NZ is on average drier now, than it has been in some decade in the 20th century. We just tend to forget previous dry spells. I shall leave the debate now, happy in that conviction.


                  • mac1

                    Antoine, is ‘pretty sure” like Stephen Joyce’s “pretty legal” before National copped a $600,000 penalty for nicking Eminem’s rights?

                    • Antoine

                      Stephen Joyce is a knob end


                    • mac1

                      Stephen Joyce was pretty sure of his legal standing, so he thought. Antoine, are you as well grounded as he with your ‘pretty sure’ of the state of continuing dry spells in terms of duration, frequency, extent, and impact? My mention of Joyce was not to invite a comment on his physical attributes but rather inviting a comparison between his use of ‘pretty’ as a descriptor and his lack of research/knowledge of the field of copyright, and your use of the word ‘pretty’ to describe your knowledge of drought occurrence given your apparent refusal to research the stats yourself, but instead relying on what seems like pre-determined intuition.

            • Graeme

              The skills thing around fires is a problem here, we get several urban fires a year because people don’t have the skills requires to deal with a fire for heating. Hot ashes and the like, or logs falling out of the fire. That gets accentuated in the back country.

              There was quite a large vegetation fire where a tourist lit some grass to try and find a ring that they dropped.

              • weka

                yikes that tourist. I see lots of old outside fire places, often badly built and in daft places (once saw one under some kanuka), mostly in places where tourists are spending time. I think we’ve been fairly lucky with this in NZ so far. Would be interested in what places with bush fire culture do about tourists (Oz, US).

                I reckon the hot ash one would be helped if ash cans were cheaper and more easily available.

        • greywarshark

          So sad to see this. Fire is going to be a death sentence matter for adults I think because it often seems to be an addiction. It destroys so much when it happens that cannot be replaced. As it continues much of the NZ and the world will become uninsurable or unaffordable to insure or rebuild if one can get materials. Already in NZ we find we can’t get materials because of the economic system that has prevailed these past decades has sold it overseas.

          California has been wrecked. The financial loss and the pain of losing a home and all the photos and memoribilia will cause mental breakdowns.

          We cannot afford to have the back country louts and inner city ones able to destroy the country. Those people are unstable who have never been socialised into the culture, learned about self-control or adding to the community instead of taking or regarding everything as their plaything, or have never been socialised even into a family.

          We will have to have emergency systems out and waiting at every one of these events like New Year where the freedom-loving males will carry out any whim that enters their sodden brains. Or it may be the sad, sorry family male will say ‘I didn’t know, I didn’t think.’ The result though will be the same.

          Popular holiday areas may have to be closed off in drought conditions, so that the flora and fauna are not put at extra risk from humans. Or tickets will have to be bought stipulating time allowed with people manning entry and exit points. Lightning and sun on bright objects can start a fire without any human intervention.

          • Antoine

            > Fire is going to be a death sentence matter for adults I think because it often seems to be an addiction

            Sorry, are you saying that repeat arsonists should be executed?


  2. eco maori 3

    Happy new year to all the people of New Zealand. I am happy to see my Ngti porou whano are enjoying the Rthyem and vines music festival in Gisborne with minimal negative problems happening Ka pai whano I know you have a better view on reality. I know how far eco Maoris post have reached into Maoridom. Be proud of OUR Maori culture and please be good as the way you behave can add to our Mana or decrease it if you choose to behave badly Ka pai.

    Happy new year to to all the humane environmental friendly people on mother earth we are but a speck of dust to mother earth she just has to stir and we get earthquake sneeze and we get hurricane weep and we get floods mother earth is a living breathing been who we must learn to worship for US to have a beautiful prosperous positive future we must respect everyone and everything on mother earth if not well we won’t have a functioning future.
    Ka kite ano

  3. cleangreen 4

    Ka pai rā tēnei mahi.

    This work is good.

    keep up the good work Eco maori.

    We love and appreciate your mana – and dedication to mother earth.

  4. Leaked memo schooled Tillerson on human rights

    Three months into his tenure as secretary of state, Rex Tillerson alarmed veteran diplomats with remarks that sounded like a potential shift in American foreign policy: The U.S., he said, should be careful not to let values like human rights create “obstacles” to the pursuit of its interests.

    The comment, at a gathering of State Department employees, provoked an outcry among former U.S. officials and human rights activists who feared America was abandoning a vital mission. Two weeks later, a top Tillerson adviser wrote up a short tutorial, in the form of a confidential memo to his boss, recapping “the debate over how far to emphasize human rights, democracy promotion, and liberal values in American foreign policy.”

    The May 17 memo reads like a crash course for a businessman-turned-diplomat, and its conclusion offers a starkly realist vision: that the U.S. should use human rights as a club against its adversaries, like Iran, China and North Korea, while giving a pass to repressive allies like the Philippines, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

    “Allies should be treated differently—and better—than adversaries. Otherwise, we end up with more adversaries, and fewer allies,” argued the memo, written by Tillerson’s influential policy aide, Brian Hook.

    It is unclear what prompted Hook to author the memo, and whether he did so at Tillerson’s request amid a furor in foreign policy circles about Tillerson’s May 3 remarks, in which he said that “it’s really important that all of us understand the difference between policy and values” like “freedom, human dignity and the way people are treated.”

    Human Rights don’t seem to be something that the US Administration is overly enamoured of.

    • adam 5.1

      It’s like they are giving up on soft power all together. It is odd. Things like Human rights, the rule of law, and democracy are the soft power points, whereby the USA got a lot of support, and made them look like a different type of empire. I think the republicans are dropping the mask completely, and going for straight hard power, which is a good thing for the rest of us.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1

        It’s only odd if you think that Trump and his people are benign and intelligent.

  5. Sanctuary 6

    What was that about the “bullies and haters” who persuaded Lorde to boycott israel?


    Such terribly nice people, those pro-Israeli folk.

    Also, because NZ does’t lick Israel’s dirty arse and declare it delicious it looks like we are all enemies of Israel.

  6. greywarshark 7

    Yanis Varoufakis on Christmas from different economic perspectives and
    comments on Class, Brexit and other political circuses – he refers to Britain and the ‘dog’s Brexit’.

    The Economists who stole Christmas
    …Neoclassicists: Given their view of individuals as utility-maximizing algorithms, and their obsession with a paradigm of purely utility-driven transactions, neoclassical economists can see no point in such a fundamentally inefficient form of exchange as Christmas gift-giving. When Jill receives a present from Jack that cost him $X, but which gives her less utility than she would gain from commodity Y, which retails for $Y (that is less than or equal to $X), Jill is forced either to accept this utility loss or to undertake the costly and usually imperfect business of exchanging Jack’s gift for Y. Either way, there is a deadweight loss involved.

    The High Cost of Denying Class Warfare
    ATHENS – The Anglosphere’s political atmosphere is thick with bourgeois outrage. In the United States, the so-called liberal establishment is convinced it was robbed by an insurgency of “deplorables” weaponized by Vladimir Putin’s hackers and Facebook’s sinister inner workings. In Britain, too, an incensed bourgeoisie are pinching themselves that support for leaving the European Union in favor of an inglorious isolation remains undented, despite a process that can only be described as a dog’s Brexit.

  7. mary_a 8

    Happy New Year one and all 🙂

    On a not so positive note, US Rabbi takes out an advertisement in US newspaper, accusing Lorde of bigotry! At the same time, the Rabbi concerned is also making accusations against the singer and NZ with the same boring, pathetic old fall back line, anti semitism!

    The Rabbi is demonstrating what a bitter, nasty, vindictive, twisted nation Israel and its supporters really are!


  8. OnceWasTim 9

    Interesting contrasts on TS.
    Comments on thestandard.org.nz/what-will-2018-bring-for-donald-trump/ and
    thestandard.org.nz/hello-2018/ (behaviour-wise).

    ‘Peace and goodwill to all mankind’. Oh shit, no, that was last week.

    I’m with greywarshark at 6.

  9. Morrissey 10

    Thatcher’s Henchmen

    Usually described as “leonine”, this guy just gets worse with age. Unfortunately for him, he made the mistake a few years ago of allowing himself to appear on television with the brilliant Ken Loach, who wasted no time in reducing him to a never to be forgotten display of gibbering, incoherent fury….

    “Thatcher’s Henchmen” is compiled and presented by Morrissey Breen for Daisycutter Sports, Inc.


    • Union city greens 10.1

      I’ve never identified with or supported Heseltine’s politics, not one bit, but then I really don’t agree with your dodgy interpretation of that interview.

      In no way, in no universe or alternate dimension, was he reduced “to a never to be forgotten display of gibbering, incoherent fury….”.

      Perhaps, instead of “Thatcher’s Henchmen” is compiled and presented by Morrissey Breen for Daisycutter Sports, Inc, you should label it as ‘Another Morrissey Breen shocker’.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1


        Morrissey has a ways to go before he can become a real stenographer.

      • Morrissey 10.1.2

        Sorry, my friend, but your interpretation of Heseltine’s angry response to Loach is unwarrantedly generous. He tried to bluster and bully his way past Loach, but didn’t have a chance.

        And what’s “fake news” about this clip, exactly?

        • Union city greens

          You’re not even close to giving an accurate interpretation there.

          Thing is, it’s all on show in glorious Technicolor, and as I grew up with Heseltine being on the nightly news and know his mannerisms and speech habits, I’ll stick with my own eyes, ears and unbiased observation, thanks.

          • Morrissey

            What is inaccurate in my interpretation of this encounter? One of the two men is clearly in the ascendant here, and it isn’t the one with the intimidating air of hauteur.

            The fact is: Heseltine is being publicly confronted with the hypocrisy and meanness of his politics, and when his persistent scowl fails to intimidate Loach, his response is an angry, marginally coherent string of clichés….

            LORD HESELTINE: This is the language that’s been wejected acwoss the WORLD, this is YESTERDAY’s claptrap… global economy where fweedom enables people to decide where to live, where to invest…

            KEN LOACH: Unfortunately the poor don’t have that freedom of course.

            Heseltine pokes his finger aggressively as he tries to browbeat Loach, and he foolishly tries to blame Labour for the unemployment rate—thus providing Loach with the opportunity to school him on the near indistinguishability of Labour and Conservative attacks on the poor.

            In every way—rhetorically, style-wise, and intellectually—Heseltine is defeated here. Unless, of course, you give him points for juvenile name-calling and beetling his brow frighteningly. Frighteningly for small children, that is; Ken Loach is another matter entirely.

            • Union city greens

              “What is inaccurate in my interpretation of this encounter?”

              “reducing him to a never to be forgotten display of gibbering, incoherent fury….” It never happened. Anyone who watches will see it doesn’t go down like you claim. Even more so for those of us who remember Heseltine in full flight.
              As above, you’re not even close to giving an accurate interpretation, and that’s it, really.
              You can, of course, argue otherwise, but not with people with eyes, ears, decent memories and unbiased dispositions.

              • Morrissey

                “It never happened”, you claim, in spite of what is painfully obvious to anyone watching this epic takedown of an obnoxious old bully.

                You seem to think that “those of us who remember Heseltine in full flight” won’t accept the evidence of their eyes; the fact is that here he tries desperately to get into Heseltinian “full flight”, but every trick he has is to no avail: Ken Loach does not quail in the face of that angry stare and that stern voice of assumed, and rarely challenged, authority. Clearly Heseltine is livid about this oik with a working class accent showing him up—the desperate shouting (“claptwap”, he snarls) flows from this deep anger.

                You seem to think that only people of “unbiased dispositions” will admit the evidence of their eyes. That’s not so: I am more than willing to acknowledge and to document instances of well organized government spokesmen making mincemeat of poorly briefed and unprepared liberals….

                Open mike 10/08/2012

                Open mike 30/09/2012

                Open mike 31/03/2011

                • Union city greens

                  Just admit you got a little bit carried away and made some shit up.

                  I challenge any impartial viewer to watch that video and agree that “reducing him to a never to be forgotten display of gibbering, incoherent fury….” actually happened.

                  You know, when you have to lie to make a point it sort of cuts off the impact at the knees. Now you just look stupid at best and dishonest at worst.

                  You’ve been doing this a long time. You should know better.

                  • Morrissey

                    Just admit you got a little bit carried away…

                    You’re partly correct there, my friend. I was wrong to say that his (fruitless) display of consternation and anger was “gibbering”—he never lost control of himself like, say, William Shawcross did in 2004…

                    Open mike 01/08/2011

                    ….and made some shit up.

                    You think it was an honourable draw between two equal opponents, do you? Lord Heseltine certainly didn’t think so.

                    I’ll skip the “making shit up” slur, along with the rest of your desperate name-calling. If there’s one thing you, indeed anyone, should have learned from Heseltine’s humiliation, it’s that shouting abuse—and that’s what you’ve done here—is a sure sign that you have nothing of substance to offer.

                    • Union city greens

                      You were nearly half way there before your ego got the better of you and you reverted to making it all up again.

                    • Stunned Mullet

                      Moz’s ego and third rate stenography skills are the stuff of legend.

                      That he keeps a record of all his web based etchings is perhaps a symptom of something a little worrying.

                    • Morrissey

                      Which bit did I “make up”? Do you think Heseltine equalled or even bettered Ken Loach in that confrontation?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Which bit did I “make up”?

                      I was wrong to say that his (fruitless) display of consternation and anger was “gibbering”

                      Comedy stenographer misrepresents own words.

                    • Union city greens

                      “Which bit did I “make up”? Do you think Heseltine equalled or even bettered Ken Loach in that confrontation?”

                      It’s not whether he equalled or bettered his opponent in the debate, it’s whether the main tenet and point of your post was truthful.

                      “reducing him to a never to be forgotten display of gibbering, incoherent fury….”

                      Again, for the umpteenth time, this just wasn’t the case at all.
                      You clearly made it up. I think that’s dishonest.

                    • McFlock

                      Personally, I think moz is more delusional than dishonest.

                      Folks have been periodically pointing his bullshit out for years, and when you finally manage to spell out his falsehoods in small enough words, he improves for about five minutes before his mental reset button kicks in and he goes back to his traditional form.

                    • Morrissey

                      Folks have been periodically pointing his bullshit out for years,

                      “Folks” is here a technical term for: McFlock, Felix, Te Reo Putake, and a couple of others who objected to, primarily, my support for Julian Assange (they all supported the U.K./U.S. campaign of vengeance) and zeroed in on my rush transcripts as a weak point. Of course, they (that includes you, McFlock) didn’t have a leg to stand on, and were thoroughly refuted. People who enjoy ass-whuppings may like to do some research on the Standard archives.

                      To have a go at me, they were prepared to stick up even for Hekia Parata….

                      Open mike 30/08/2011

                      …. and when you finally manage to spell out his falsehoods in small enough words, he improves for about five minutes before his mental reset button kicks in and he goes back to his traditional form.

                      I have thoroughly refuted you on every occasion, McFlock, especially when you sank to the depths of depravity and accused me of anti-Semitism after I critiqued the vicious politics of Jerry Seinfeld and, especially, Sacha Baron Cohen.

                    • McFlock

                      yep, that’s the stuff.

                      I think a couple of months ago was the most recent occasion on which moz vanquished all his foes with the might of his accuracy.

                    • Morrissey

                      Rubblish, McFlock. You know as well as the rest of us that my transcripts are now word perfect, and that you can no longer niggle away at minor transcription errors.

                      But of course, now I’m TOO accurate. Was it you that was objecting to my pointing out that there are often uncomfortable silences in Helen Clark’s interviews?

                    • McFlock

                      Not immediately familiar with your current delusion, but I suspect any silences were about as “uncomfortable” as Heseltine was “gibbering”.

                      edit: the trouble is that even if now your “transcripts” are “word perfect” (leaving just the tone, timing, and context to master), that’s what you said then, when your “transcripts” were bullshit, so why would I bother reading the latest ones?

                    • Morrissey

                      Not immediately familiar with your current delusion,

                      Given the fact that you, along with one or two others on this site, were stupid enough to buy wholesale, no questions asked, into this century’s most outrageous campaign of vilification, defamation, and lying, I’m not one bit surprised to see you portray my writing as a “delusion.” You have no standards of decency or acceptability, quite clearly.

                      …but I suspect any silences were about as “uncomfortable” as Heseltine was “gibbering”.

                      edit: the trouble is that even if now your “transcripts” are “word perfect” (leaving just the tone, timing, and context to master), that’s what you said then, when your “transcripts” were bullshit, so why would I bother reading the latest ones?

                      You have, I suspect on purpose, failed to address the point: that my original rush transcripts were not “bullshit”, as you unhesitatingly and without a twinge of conscience, have written; they were rush transcripts. As others (without a barrow to push like you) have pointed out, they were true to the spirit and tone of whatever it was I was hurriedly dashing down in my combination longhand/shorthand. Therefore, when I transcribed Hekia Parata’s memorably stupid “variety of various variables” in 2011, everyone recognized the transcript pretty much pinned down her uselessness—but dear old Lanthanide, smarting from another encounter with me about nuclear power, which Lanthanide supported—took the opportunity to jump on the fact I hadn’t transcribed it verbatim. A few others with scores to settle jumped in as well.

                      Open mike 30/08/2011

                      As for having to master “tone, timing, and context”, please tell us how, for instance, this ugly attempt at intimidation is not made more understandable by my pointing out the interviewer’s brusqueness, aggression, snide tone and constant interruptions….


                    • Ed

                      Thank you Morrissey.
                      I really appreciate the transcripts you provide for us.

                    • McFlock

                      Actually, fair cop, that particular link really is pretty close to the interview, weird spelling and random capitalisation notwithstanding.

                      But you still had to take a brief pause with a pretty good poker face at about 6m50s and turn it into:

                      …[Here there are a couple of seconds of silence as she tries to deal civilly with the imbecility and insolence of that question]…

                      So yeah – now you need to work on the tone, timing and context. Assuming that’s a typical example of your output, rather than a single exemplar.

                    • Morrissey

                      Thanks to both Ed and McFlock for your kind words. McFlock, I unloaded my full rhetorical arsenal at you, in the manner of an old Tory grandee barking at a wimpy liberal, but you have maintained a calm demeanour throughout.

                      I salute you, McFlock, and extend to you the following act of propitiation….


                    • McFlock

                      oh, piss off, you pointless waste of space. You’ll be making exactly the same claims of perfection soon. Instead of wanking to stuff you pulled out of your arsenal, try not being such a fraudulent dick in the first place.

                    • Ed

                      Your transcripts are legendary 😊

                    • Morrissey

                      Thanks Ed, it’s much appreciated.

                      And McFlock, you’re getting friendlier and nicer as time goes on. Keep up the good work, old buddy!

  10. eco maori 11

    Many thanks to TVNZ and all the good people for there work and showing the world OUR excellent Kiwi culture many thanks to all the good people advocating for equality for all the Lady’s around OUR WORLD.
    Ka kite ano

  11. joe90 12

    The Ministry of Hasbara goes goes global.

    The government and Diaspora Jewry are joining hands to combat the delegitimization of Israel in the world. The plan is to establish an “information mission” – in the format of the Taglit-Birthright Israel project – which will provide a quick response to anti-Israel attacks. Minister Erdan: “Doubling power to help us win the boycott campaign”


    Imagine that after an artist like Lorde cancels a performance in Israel that she faces a viral onslaught throughout the world and is forced to read full-page advertisements denouncing her decision in major newspapers around the globe. This is something that the state of Israel isn’t currently capable of.


    BDS attempts to blacken Israel’s name and isolate it throughout the world. Billions of people are subjected to its incitement and lying propaganda, which seek to damage the legitimacy of Israel as a Jewish state and to undermine the moral foundations of our [national] existence. A joint battle of the state of Israel with pro-Israel groups will act as a force multiplier of the efforts of the government and enable us to vanquish BDS.



    • joe90 12.1

      KL* 'Brilliant news @lorde ! Another voice to support the Palestinians, as their land is stolen, their homes demolished and they suffer daily oppression. We are all strengthened by your compassion and bravery, Lorde. In friendship and solidarity, Ken'— Ken Loach (@KenLoachSixteen) December 31, 2017

      • greywarshark 12.1.1

        I don’t know what BDS stands for.
        It could be the British Dragonfly Society but more likely –

        Broadcast Data Systems
        Any CD’s going to major market radio MUST send a copy to BDS. BDS stands for Broadcast Data Systems. BDS is a computer based system that “fingerprints” your song into a computer ,then tracks it through a satellite system giving an exact number of “spins” a song receives.

        • Incognito

          What is BDS?

          The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel’s oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law.


  12. greywarshark 13

    Coca Cola shows a smiley face at Christmas. Their publicity is really top class. Here is a feel good.

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