Open Mike 02/02/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 2nd, 2018 - 97 comments
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97 comments on “Open Mike 02/02/2018”

  1. Ed 1

    An excellent article in the Herald about the loss of wetlands in our country.
    Every time I read passages like these and then hear all the spin and lies about New Zealand being his wonderfully beautiful country, it makes me sad.
    New Zealanders are rapidly becoming like American people – ignorant and deluded about the real state of their own country.

    Once this place was a beautiful land, covered in forest and wetland and full of the sound of native birds.
    Now it is a polluted industrial farm.

    • James 1.1

      “New Zealanders are rapidly becoming like American people – ignorant and deluded”

      A seeepingn statement like that regarding – is ignorant and deluded.

      • Robert Guyton 1.1.1

        “…about the state of their own country”. Partial quotes, James, selected to say something different from the writer’s intention – a Tory-troll-trick if ever I saw one.

      • Grey Area 1.1.2

        Got to watch those pesky seeping statements!

    • Johan 1.2

      Most Americans wouldn’t know what and where New Zealand is. A few years ago research showed that a majority of US college graduates were incapable of placing the location of Miami on a map correctly.

      • weka 1.2.1

        tbf I probably couldn’t place some NI towns on a map.

      • alwyn 1.2.2

        I didn’t really believe that people from the US were as ignorant of the world as they are until I was in New York at a conference.
        The people there were all well educated, at least to the extent that they were all University graduates.
        I was asked where I came from. I replied New Zealand and got a blank stare.
        I explained that it was near Australia. I thought they might have heard of that place.
        Another blank stare and then I was asked “Is that in Scandinavia?”
        I kid you not. It was terrifying to find how insular they were.

        • Andre

          Maybe it’s just the kind of people that go to the conferences you go to 😈

          • alwyn

            Don’t say that in Lynn’s hearing. He might think you were insulting his profession.
            It was actually a SHARE conference attended by about 8,000 IT specialists.
            Only time in my life I have knowingly talked to people who worked for the CIA. And no, they weren’t spies but MVS specialists.
            A long time ago though. Back in the days when mainframes ruled.

        • Stuart Munro

          Draft dodgers.

          “War is God’s way of teaching Americans geography” Ambrose Bierce

  2. Ed 2

    The Herald calls it weird weather.
    Rachel Stewart asks ” are we worried yet?”

    High sea temperatures.
    Tidal surges.

    We have entered the age of consequences.
    The severity of the impacts of climate change depends on the reaction of us and our governments.

    Email your MP.
    Organise local meetings.
    Reduce your carbon footprint- ear less meat.
    Reduce your carbon footprint- catch public transport
    Speak to your Local councillors.
    Inform all your friends.
    Change the way you live.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 2.1

      Couldn’t pay me enough to live on the coast at sea level.

      One min in

      • AsleepWhileWalking 2.1.1

        And when you feel your skin burning after a minute or two in the sun that isnt age making your skin sensitive. Its the loss of ozone allowing more UV rays down.

        • tc

          Particularly bad for NZ with the hole hovering over us early summer.

          Catches a lot of tourists / stupid kiwis out and surprises the ockers who think it’s like theirs.

        • Draco T Bastard

          While true their is some good news:

          Measurements show that the decline in chlorine, resulting from an international ban on chlorine-containing manmade chemicals called chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), has resulted in about 20 percent less ozone depletion during the Antarctic winter than there was in 2005 — the first year that measurements of chlorine and ozone during the Antarctic winter were made by NASA’s Aura satellite.

          “We see very clearly that chlorine from CFCs is going down in the ozone hole, and that less ozone depletion is occurring because of it,” said lead author Susan Strahan, an atmospheric scientist from NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland.

      • tc 2.1.2

        Consider how much wealth is concentrated at coastal locations as they become rather more uncomfortable to live in due to sea levels, weather, erosion etc

        Interesting when that population migrates to the hills they already own permanently.

      • Yeah, I stopped watching that when they mentioned the US military spraying heavy metals throughout the atmosphere.

    • Tony Veitch (not etc) 2.2

      Quite true, Ed.

      I may have missed it, but I don’t think I heard the phrase ‘climate change’ mentioned on either Prime or TV1 at all last night.

      No explanation was offered for the ‘unusual’ weather, and certainly no suggestion that this will become the new ‘normal’ next year and the year after . . .

      By inference, the king tides were caused by the closeness of the moon etc, with the suggestion that we can relax folks, such a combination won’t happen again until 2037!

      Climate change denial by omission?

      • tc 2.2.1

        Simply following the practice of other msm outlets…..I hear it’s a sackable offence in Murdoch’s empire to publish/broadcast the term.

        You want credible scientific fact based reporting then you’ll need to gut Tvnz and turn it into a proper public broadcaster.

      • Ed 2.2.2

        No in New Zealand people don’t call it climate change.
        It’s weird weather.

        If our media and business and political leaders called it climate change, that would mean they would have to do something radical.

        Like abandon neoliberal capitalism.
        And that would hurt their profits.
        And affect their indulgent lifestyle.

        So they call it weird weather.

      • Bearded Git 2.2.3

        The environment has a low profile with the new government…RMA reforms appear on the back burner

      • mikes 2.2.4

        You seem to be suggesting that to say that tides are caused by the moon means someone denies climate change??

        Do you not understand that king tides (as with all tides) are caused by the moon? We have spring and king tides every year and have had them since well before humans walked the earth. These tides are nothing to do with anthropogenic global warming.

        Climate change denial? I don’t think there’s a person on earth who denies climate change.

    • James 2.3

      Do you cut and paste your own bullshit?

      This is twice you have made the statement Rachael Stewart ask “are we worried yet?”

      And of course yet again there is nothing of the sort in the link you provided.

      Your stuff was wrong the first time. It’s not worth repeating and being wrong again.

      Please stop telling lies and making up quotes.

      [Okay James. I just backtracked through all this smash. Rachel Stewart has in deed asked “Are we worried yet” in relation to AGW. Ed’s attribution was correct and he provided a link to a weather related article and suggested action people might want to take if they are (to recycle the quote from Rachel Stewart) “worried yet”. How’s about you take the day off and consider whether you want to be coming here side-swiping reasonable commentary?] – Bill

        • James

          Yep. But two points.

          1 that’s not the link you quoted. And Rachael Stewart still didn’t say what you are quoting her as saying.

          Please stop making up quotes for people in things they never said.

      • Robert Guyton 2.3.2

        Or this?

        • James

          Why – didn’t make the quote you made up true – you are still a liar.

          So since you are throwing up links – got anything where she says what you attribute to her?

          As opposed to trying to bluster your way out of your lies.

          From memory weka pulled you up on this same lie last time.

          [just as well Bill has already moderated this, because I’m getting sick of the bickering. I don’t like the way that Ed is framing that, but he’s not lying. If you want to call someone a liar, you need a much better argument than you’re presenting.

          I also don’t like people trying to bring me into their arguments like that. Do the actual work and go look up what I said and link to it, and then no-one has to rely on your memory.

          Ed has made considerable effort in the past year to change how he comments. Given how much aggro you seem to generate onsite, how about you do the same? – weka]

      • patricia bremner 2.3.3

        Thank you Bill.

    • mary_a 2.4

      @ Ed (2) … and in Cromwell here, we woke up to a fresh dumping of snow on the mountain tops this morning, in February!

      To deny the existence of climate change is foolish. I think we should be concerned.

  3. eco maori 3

    Good morning Breakfast people I’m changing my bank the sandflys infected all the staff there with there virus and hypnotized them with that shiny object .The Lady bank teller was the star off the sandflys main play yesterday. The sandflys also interfered with my plans to improve my whano future if something happens to me by convincing the bank staff that I’m not worthy of a $100.000 life insurance policy . P.S they are scared and desperate did you see my reply to graywarsharks attack on eco maori mana yesterday
    Ana to kai

    • eco maori 3.1

      Yes that was my thought on the mokos lungs function Hayley .
      I cast my thoughts to when I was 9 living with my MAMA I was always last in a race I just made our bed went to school peeled the spuds for tea weeded the garden .
      When she died I move up Te Tairawhiti rideing horses eeling hunting diving swimming in the Waiapu river I soon started getting into the top 3 of races at school I ran over the top the other players at rugby to . P.S At least I have free speech and can express my views to the rest of the world. Ka kite ano

      • eco maori 3.1.1

        Many thanks for Interviewing Meng Foon .
        I never liked the name of my birth place as that sends out a subliminal message that damages the Mana of Gisborne and also damages the Mana of the people
        Turanganui-a-kiwa is the correct Name The only poverty in Turanganui-a-kiwa is imposed by Gisborne man and ECO MAORI has him on the back foot.
        The flat land grows the best food for the world the Maunga mountains has some of the best hunting for Boar and Deer in the world Tangaroa/sea has the best Tarakihi fish in Aotearoa Paua Koura blind eels pipi mussles flounder .Te awa/rivers has heaps of Tuna Koura . OUR Manga Hikurangi is the FIRST place in the Papatuanuku /Earth to see the SUN one of the most sun shine hours in Aotearoa . There is something positive in everything I say . Because Cook caste that name on Turanganui-a-kiwi the European population has not exploded and that would have made Maori a minority in Turanganui-a-kiwa I have plans for my Home Land I know that Meng Foon has read East coast myths and ledgions by WIllam Porter .Ka pai. P.S I prefer internet Banking because a lot of my clients use checks I have to go into the bank to deposit there checks . Ka kite ano

        • eco maori

          Back in the day I would get home from Tangaroa the cupboards were empty as my mom relationship with the stepfather had ended I would walk down to the local supermarket and full a shopping trolley up with groceries full the cupboards pay the shop bill which i had restricted to bread and milk pay mom board than I would walk to the local video shop hire videos Bud Spencer and Terence Hill E.C.T .
          There were no cash flow cards in those days .I banked with Trust Bank I change Banks and they gave me a checkbook lol .It was other people that would get me to go out to the pub as I was a boy from Te tairawhiti I never really like the after effects the next morning of killing ones brain cells . I had plenty of money in those days it was others who advised me to buy a car my first 2 lasted 3 months my EH 1969 Holden has a good story to got with its demise I will tell you about that later LOL Ka kite ano

        • Bearded Git

          with respect Eco I like your posts when I can br bothered to read them…..could I suggest you do much shorter posts with the occasioal long one when you are really wound up…this would work better for everyone

          • eco maori

            I will keep that in mind Im just comunacations to the people in our Media that Tau toko me do the people wonder why these people support me. It because these people are in the know. They know what I say about OUR system is true who else to have a ear to the ground than OUR MSM. The neoliberals MSM are supporting the sandflys to damage my Mana. There are some people I Tau toko who support the sandflys and they are getting persecuted by the people on social media Ana to kai PS they will learn to be loyal to ECO MAORI. Ka pai + one can just jump ahead of my post and carry on your debate
            Ka kite ano

  4. Sabine 4

    Cape Town running out of water, soon coming to a place near us – or as described here , a shit storm to come?

    Quote: The question is: Will there be a possibility to bring environmental justice into a sort of maybe even eco-socialist approach to addressing this?

    We’ve seen just one indication in Cape Town that’s been quite explosive, and that’s the use of shit. I know shitstorms and shit houses and shitholes are regularly discussed in the United States, but in Cape Town, shit has been used by people in the townships, Khayelitsha specifically, as a weapon of the weak, because there aren’t flush toilets in these sites. There are chemical toilets and various kinds of pit latrines, and that gives the poor people the ability to take their buckets, their large plastic containers, and use those as weapons. We’ve begun to see a class struggle take place over water, or specifically the lack of water.Quote End.

    • Bill 4.1

      Thanks Sabine. That link clearly lays out some socio/political context that’s only been hinted at in other Cape Town pieces I’ve read.

  5. Bearded Git 5

    with respect Eco I like your posts when I can br bothered to read them…..could I suggest you do much shorter posts with the occasioal long one when you are really wound up…this would work better for everyone

  6. Graeme 6

    MBIE revises Tourism figures down 8%

    Cue industry outrage. Now is that because tourism has fallen off it’s perch as #1 foreign exchange earner or because someone’s been telling porkies.

    The first explanation is happening, tourism is a cyclic industry and it’s slowing down. The last year has been slowing and the last couple of months have been very quiet. Also we’ve noticed visitors spending with cash, rather than on card. Happens when people are on strict budgets, when set amount of cash runs out they stop spending. Two sides to this, visitors are coming from economies that are doing less well than New Zealand and from further down the value scale than previously. Could be some interesting times ahead for the industry.

    Second explanation is quite possible. Most tourism “reporting” in media is just reprints of corporate press releases, usually saying how great X company’s prospects are, we’re such a safe bet for that loan Mr Banker. TIA, and others, are also very adept at using spurious figures to push the barrow, ie the line that freedom campers spending $5000 over 50 days are better for the economy than middle aged visitor spending $4000 over 10 days.

    Add in a National government that saw tourism as a cash cow to be flogged to death with as many visitors as can be brought in as possible and no thought about yield and sustainability and we have the making of a huge crash as soon as there’s the slightest chilling of the global economy. From where we sit as small independent retailers in the industry 8% is a little light, but we only see people who see value in handmade items made in New Zealand. Lower value markets may be holding up a bit. 8% is also a fairly small drop, at our end -50% or +100% has happened in the 30+ years we’ve been in the game.

  7. Rosemary McDonald 7

    I wish I could just post the photo…

    “West Coast storm ‘like a fire hose’ tore down coastline, tossing rubbish buried 20 years ago…”

    Storm surges exposes 20 year old rubbish dump, and that plastic looks just like new….

  8. The Chairman 8

    The New Zealand Initiative thinks we should consider an OBR for insurers.

    • The Chairman 8.1

      While the argument for banks may hold some water, policyholders of an insurance company haven’t invested in the company, thus see no annual return, hence shouldn’t be expected to carry an insurers risk.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 8.2

      The NZI is a privately funded lobby group for the super wealthy. Pays to keep it in mind.

      • The Chairman 8.2.1

        Yes, I’m well aware of that, thanks.

        This comes across as an attempt to test the waters.

  9. Ad 9

    The metvuw forecast shows we have tropical incursions for the first two weeks of February:

    Hot and sticky for a while folks.

  10. Puckish Rogue 10

    Someone should tell her its probably not a good idea to insult Labour and NZFirst, if she wants any Green bills to be supported that is

    • Someone should tell Farrar she became an MP, not an employee..

      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1

        I think he’d say something like formenting happy mischief but if I was advising National (we still haven’t come to terms on the contract) I’d be suggesting they prepare a few questions for next question time around this

    • Ad 10.2

      Not technically something she’s a Minister of, so technically fine commenting.

      Preaching to her converted i’m sure she is, but worth her having a chat with Shaw I would’ve thought.

    • weka 10.3

      “Someone should tell her its probably not a good idea to insult Labour and NZFirst, if she wants any Green bills to be supported that is”

      Where’s the insult? Or are you suggesting that MPs should be a hive mind?

      For that matter, where does she say that the Labour government is illegally spying?

      Or are just fomenting mischief?

      • Puckish Rogue 10.3.1

        “Fine day to protest a spy base in Waihopai! Seriously, it’s time to stop helping Donald Trump (or anyone else) unlawfully spy on our Asia Pacific neighbours ”

        – Where’s the insult?:

        The insult is that shes saying the government (Labour & NZFirst) is helping Donald Trump unlawfully spy

        – For that matter, where does she say that the Labour government is illegally spying?

        Well she says unlawfully spy so, not being a lawyer, I take that to mean illegally spying

        As for Labour government well I had assumed Labour & NZFirst were in power so probably not something that can be blamed on John Key this time 🙂

        • alwyn

          “probably not something that can be blamed on John Key this time”
          You really aren’t trying hard enough.
          Everything is John Key’s fault. EVERYTHING.
          Write that out 1,000 times to help you remember.

        • weka

          “The insult is that shes saying the government (Labour & NZFirst) is helping Donald Trump unlawfully spy”

          I don’t see how that’s an insult if it’s true. It’s just her telling the truth. Or are you saying that she shouldn’t tell the truth? Is there a way she could have told the truth that wasn’t insulting in your eyes?

          “– For that matter, where does she say that the Labour government is illegally spying?

          Well she says unlawfully spy so, not being a lawyer, I take that to mean illegally spying”

          Technically she said that a NZ spy base helps another State illegally spy on a third party. She didn’t say that NZ was doing the spying. But it could be that we provide generic support that enables the US in less direct ways. I don’t know much about it, but if you do, by all means tell us.

          “As for Labour government well I had assumed Labour & NZFirst were in power so probably not something that can be blamed on John Key this time 🙂”

          Oh I’m pretty sure that Key had his sticky little fingers all over that shit and thus is a contributor.

          • The Chairman

            “I don’t see how that’s an insult if it’s true.”


            Moreover, if true, that should be the concern – not her highlighting of it.

            • Puckish Rogue

              If being the key word, Winston Peters isn’t one to take any sort of slight lightly

              • weka

                Well Metiria Turei called him a racist last year and not a lot happened. I suspect he has better things to do with his time than worry about what a political party disagreeing with some of his party’s policies. He’ll be used to it by now.

            • Puckish Rogue

              If being the (John) key word, I get the feeling that Winston Peters doesn’t take any perceived slights lightly

              • The Chairman

                The truth being something that should have been ascertained before accusations of insults were made.

          • Puckish Rogue

            Those are convincing arguments and I’m quite sure that if Golriz Ghahraam was to put them to Winston The Peters then I’m sure he’ll understand and won’t take offence at all 🙂

          • Ad

            At some point the Greens will have to decide if they’re in government.

            Clearly it’s too early.

        • gsays

          Hi PR,
          I will bite, it is not unlawful to ride a motorbike without a WOF, it is illegal though.

  11. Ed1 11

    It seems that the media are still prepared to meekly accept spin without real thinking –

    If fact checking, perhaps it would be a good idea to ask real experts rather than just do a bit of a google-check – the second comment neatly summarises the bias in the information provided by National :
    “Why is the ‘average’ income generally used when this is distorted by those on extremely high incomes. Surely it is the median income that should be used to provide a much clearer idea what most people have to survive on. The median income from wages and salaries is about $48,000 and 50% of workers will earn that or less. The living wage is currently calculated at $20.20 for a full time worker which = around $42,000 a year (the income necessary to meet normal living expenses). 50% of workers struggle to receive a living wage. The median income is only around $80 a week (after tax) above the living wage, which is about the cost of a full tank of petrol. ” Thanks to Dave Kennedy and others making comments.

    We need to pay much more attention to median earnings. Disrtibution of earnings matters!. If all real income gains go to the top 1%, then average incomes will rise in both dollar terms and in real value – but median earnings would stay the same in dollar terms (no pay rise), and drop in real terms (lower spending power). , but median earnings in in real terms

  12. Ad 12

    Who is up for Greens female leader?

  13. Ad 13

    Anyone else notice that the Labour-led government just did exactly what it said it would do, over 100 days, and knocked it out of the park?

    • Stuart Munro 13.1

      They’ve done some good, and a fair chunk of what they’re up to may develop positively in the near future – the building and Pike River programs for example.

      But it takes a mighty generous interpretation to call signing a TPP with ISDS a success. The claim that foreign speculators have been closed out is very slender, with large farm and factory sales in the news every day. And there is little or no substantive action on the use of cheap migrants in agriculture, horticulture and construction.

      Had Labour succeeded a competent responsible government their actions could have been described as ‘knocking it out of the park’. But they succeeded a hot mess riddled with corruption, and they will need to do quite a bit more to begin to turn it around.

  14. Rosemary McDonald 14

    Okay, so they’ve got really shit weather down on the West Coast with the road blocked by at least one slip and hundreds of travelers stranded.

    Why, oh why is there still no cell phone coverage???

    Would have thought the previous Minster for Tourism, what’s his face, would have got this sorted.

    Perhaps this could be tacked onto the “To Do” list?

  15. patricia bremner 15

    Jacinda has started well in her 5 day visit to the North. A real Leader. So proud of her.

  16. Eco Maori 16

    We have Waitangi day coming up and some people are talking court /War over water in my view against a Labour lead government which is the government that cares for Maori and the common people I.E Maori will be shooting its own foot like what happened with the foreshore and seabed issue it is not a wise move this move will put wind in the sails of national and could limit the time labour have in government to 1 term .Water is a big issue but it is not a issue that needs urgent attention leave it alone till after the next elections. Get the treaty settlements sorted first and use the money to lift OUR Maori cultural people MANA with all of the people of Aotearoa and Papatunuku
    I have read some articles on Maori and OUR water issues and there was a lot of negative feed back against Maori in the comments section you see I always read what the people are saying in the comments section of a article . The big picture is we want the people of Aotearoa to all back Maori when we find a solution to this issue going to court will turn them against US.OUR Tepuna said He aha te mea nui o te ao He tangata he tangata he tangata this ring true now as we are a minority .People that are to Radical will turn the majority of the people against US Don’t let Titewhai Harawira or the likes of her stuff up this good thing we have with a Jacinda lead labour government Like Titewhai did with Helen Clark labour government any idiot can be radical not many can find a wise solution that please all the people in Aotearoa and this should be the goal of all our wise MAORI Leaders as this will lift Maoris Mana like ECO MAORI is doing right now neolibrels national people don’t want Maori to have MANA they want us to provide all the services for them and there wealth foreign m8 so they can enjoy all the beautiful wonders of Aotearoa while we have to work OUR asses off just to servive. That’s is what has happened in the last 9 years thanks to Titewhai Harawira why is she wearing sun glasses what is she hiding I will put up two links in a post below this one as this device can not bring them up Ana to kai Ka kite ano

  17. Eco Maori 18

    There you go bill English stirring up his neolibrels racist idiots by stating that IWI have cash coming out there ears Graeme Hart has more cash than all the iwi put together what the fuck national are at it again. He also states that Jacinda doesn’t know a thing about Waitangi she has more advisors on the subject than anyone. I Say shut up if he wants to make a statement about Waitangi and Maori issues than he should grow some balls and make them at Waitangi Ana to Ka I here’s the link Ka kite ano

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