Open mike 02/05/2019

130 comments on “Open mike 02/05/2019 ”

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1. Cinny 1

   2 May 2019 at 8:04 am

   Big day tomorrow, Pike re-entry, heard it will be live streamed, has anyone else heard the same please?
   • alwyn 1.1

     2 May 2019 at 3:28 pm

     Maybe next week, or next month, or next year or maybe never.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112409587/pike-river-reentry-delayed-after-andrew-little-raises-safety-concerns
     • cleangreen 1.1.1

       2 May 2019 at 7:10 pm

       Alwyn making jokes of Government as a good National gatekeeper does.

       Pathetic Alwyn you are.
       • alwyn 1.1.1.1

         2 May 2019 at 7:15 pm

         Don't be so bloody stupid. Pathetic Cleangreen, that's what you are.
         Have a look at my comment at 1.2.1.1
   • patricia bremner 1.2

     2 May 2019 at 4:49 pm

     Cinny at 1, it will happen, but the oxygen levels were unexpectedly up, making it dangerous when there is methane. Delayed 'till they figure why. ( Alwyn is being Alwyn.)
     • Cinny 1.2.1

       2 May 2019 at 6:42 pm

       I really hope there will be a livestream when it does happen.

       "A wild animal chewing through a gas monitoring tube is one of several possibilities being investigated after the re-entry of the Pike River mine drift was halted. "

       Alwyn, it would have never happened under the previous government. Will any nat MP's be there? How about maureen pugh, list MP from the Coast or simon bridges, maybe both of them will be there together….. if maureen and simon both show up then I wonder what questions the media would ask them…. lolololz
       • alwyn 1.2.1.1

         2 May 2019 at 6:48 pm

         There isn't a chance in hell that they will actually get down the mine to the place where the miners were working.

         I'll wager that the CoL has already drafted their announcement that they are going to abandon any attempt to do so.The whole exercise is a sorry farce.
         • Cinny 1.2.1.1.1

           3 May 2019 at 7:28 am

           " I'll wager that the CoL has already drafted their announcement that they are going to abandon any attempt to do so.The whole exercise is a sorry farce. "

           Did you say wager Alwyn? I'm up for it.

           3 month self imposed ban… how does that sound Alwyn?
           • alwyn 1.2.1.1.1.1

             3 May 2019 at 11:02 am

             Are you really sure you want to go down that path?

             Look at what Andrew Little is saying this morning.

             "But Little told The AM Show on Friday that if problems continue to arise and nothing can be done to make the re-entry safe, they may have to call quits on the operation.

             "There will come a point where we say 'we have fulfilled our commitment to do everything possible and everything conceivable and safely, but we can't get there or we can't go any further'," he said."

             He certainly looks as if he is plotting his retreat doesn't it?

             https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/andrew-little-open-to-cancelling-pike-river-re-entry-if-progress-cannot-be-made-safely.html
             • Cinny …

               3 May 2019 at 4:40 pm

               Are you not confident enough to go down that path Alwyn?
2. Koff 2

   2 May 2019 at 8:18 am

   Big day in the British Parliament yesterday as Britain became the first country in the world to declare a climate emergency. All due to Extinction Rebellion acting on the streets, Greta Thunberg's obstinate advocacy and Jeremy Corbyn taking the matter to Parliament.

   "Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn called for the motion to “set off a wave of action from parliaments and governments around the globe”.

   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/climate-change-environment-emergency-commons-motion-mps-vote-latest-a8895456.html
   • cleangreen 2.1

     2 May 2019 at 8:41 am

     God send the miners re-entry into the mine safely please; – and find the reasons that caused so many of our fine men were sent to their untimely death and find us justice.
   • Dennis Frank 2.2

     2 May 2019 at 9:37 am

     "This proposal, which demonstrates the will of the House on the issue but does not legally compel the government to act, was approved without a vote." https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48126677

     I've never heard of such a thing. Kind of like a policy statement from parliament, eh? Non-binding, but official due to May deciding not to oppose it.

     “The Welsh and Scottish governments have both already declared a climate emergency, along with dozens of towns and cities, including Manchester and London.”
     • greywarshark 2.2.1

       2 May 2019 at 9:49 am

       In NZ towns and areas declared themselves nuclear free as a statement. Was that done before or after government did so?
       • Anne 2.2.1.1

         2 May 2019 at 9:54 am

         Before… from recollection grey. But that would have been because the previous Nat government under Muldoon refused to contemplate such a move.

         Not dis-similar to the UK motion but in NZ it was a government motion not an opposition one.
         • greywarshark 2.2.1.1.1

           2 May 2019 at 2:46 pm

           Thanks. But all the same it is an interesting action of the regions imposing their own opinion on central government.
   • Wensleydale 2.3

     2 May 2019 at 1:31 pm

     Brace yourself for… absolutely nothing to happen. Given our track record, until the skin is melting from our skulls, we'll just keep on making excuses. We're really good at that.
3. Andre 3

   2 May 2019 at 9:45 am

   But her emails.

   With clear evidence of a full-blown governance crisis with possible outright criminality on their hands, the only thing Repug senators want to do is try to divert to an irrelevant issue that was fully investigated long ago.

   https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/01/politics/barr-republicans-clinton/index.html

   Let's recap where we're at:

   The president currently in office had a campaign team that eagerly accepted and encouraged a foreign government's smear campaign against his opponent. Apparently the Special Counsel found insufficient evidence to show a chargeable conspiracy between the campaign and said foreign government. The campaign team appears to be off the hook through a combination of obstructing the investigation, and simple incompetence and laziness on the part of the campaign when it actually comes to a coordinated effort with outside parties.

   The investigator presented his finding to the Attorney General. Let's remind ourselves here; although the AG is appointed by the prez (one of the subject of the investigation), the actual job is supposed to serving the interests of the people and the nation as a whole. But said AG blew off his actual job responsibilities, instead toeing right up to the line of personal criminal exposure to try to protect the prez by misleading Congress and the public about what the Special Counsel investigation found and concluded. And when presented with clear evidence of his deliberately misleading conduct, continues with his obfuscation.

   https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/01/barr-hearing-mueller-report-1295274

   https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/william-barr-donald-trump-media-defense-obstruction-of-justice.html?via=homepage_recirc_recent

   And for the real shocker, Barr apparently thinks it's just fine for a campaign to go along with and encourage all the foreign interference it can get. All long as it's for the benefit of his guy, of course.

   https://www.vox.com/2019/5/1/18525716/william-barr-mueller-report-trump-tower-meeting
   • Andre 3.1

     2 May 2019 at 3:08 pm

     A bit of background here about Barr and how he traded his formerly widely respected reputation for a cheeto-tinged skidmark smeared down his CV.

     https://www.huffpost.com/entry/william-barr-reputation-mueller-report-trump_n_5cb9d96ae4b06605e3edfcdf
4. A 4

   2 May 2019 at 9:49 am

   This is a great story. Happy. Such a precious thing.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/112396406/husband-in-down-syndrome-couple-that-fought-courts-to-be-married-dies
5. Dennis Frank 5

   2 May 2019 at 9:50 am

   Yesterday Andrea Vance reported this: "Stuff understands Climate Change Minister James Shaw and NZ First have negotiated a "split gas" target, which would see methane treated differently from other long-lived gases, like carbon." https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112353042/methane-emissions-deal-kick-starts-climate-change-legislation

   "Shaw said: "We have delayed release of reports to give Government time to consider the reports so that when they are released for public consultation people will have a clear idea of the Government's thinking around the recommendations."

   "That's likely to mean the release of the reports, together with the Government's position, will happen in the next few weeks." No hurry, due to climate change not being seen as an emergency, obviously!

   "NZ First was worried its farming base would be unfairly disadvantaged by ambitious targets. It's understood the party's chief of staff Jon Johansson played an instrumental role in the compromise."

   "Jon Johansson is a New Zealand political scientist and the current chief of staff for New Zealand First. His academic specialities are New Zealand and American politics, as well as political leadership. He lectured these subjects at Victoria University." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansson

   "His PhD dissertation "seeks to extend our theoretical understanding of political leadership by constructing an Integrated Political Leadership Model, one that introduces a diverse range of essential leadership ideas into the New Zealand literature." … In 2009, he spent the fall semester in Washington, D.C. as a Fulbright Visiting Scholar to Georgetown University."

   Media savvy from his many appearances on current affairs shows, combined with his focus on leadership in deep academic context, makes him an adept insightful operator. No wonder NZF has surprised folks with their coalition performance.
   • greywarshark 5.1

     2 May 2019 at 10:36 am

     Interesting DF. Where is the authority, the dource of the advice behind the voices of the various Parties?

     For National it is probably Crosby-Textor plus bank economists and the like, The NZ Initiative and so on. Labour? Who do they listen and learn from?

     I was thinking recently about the business model of a big company buying up and swallowing another. Often they will buy a well-known brand, keep turning out product as usual, but lessen input of quality, from personnel to ingredients. The customers may keep on buying in a routine response but the product eventually is a shadow of its past, and is then sold on volume competing with cheap ingredients with others still attempting quality at a higher price. Griffins biscuits is a bit like this. Sold to the USA in the 1960s it still has a NZ atmosphere floating round the familiar biscuits that are carefully engineered to seem the same. Cadburys was made in NZ to certain standards. The buying company are still marketing Roses chocs but not a patch on what was made previously.

     These are two examples that we are familiar with. There will be more. Worst of all is the example of this country. We had a good name in so many of our features when we had governments that strove to find a way forward for us. Then the financial world offered Labour a free pass; stop worrying and trying to make decisions, thinking for the people, leave it to the market which expresses the will of the people and you can't go wrong.

     Government in hand with private enterprise, market NZ as a 'wonderland' overseas and we wonder how they can get away with selling a facade. At its best it comes down to a relativity level; the others are so bad, we are told, that our claims are only slightly questionable. And they even reflect this image back on us who goggle in a dazed fashion at the bright images that supposedly show us our own country, which someone else must be able to recognise.

     Now we can't get government to do anything until we are on the edge of the cliff, and even then they will hold tenders for private enterprise to sell us ropes and helicopters, for those who can afford them. How do you like being in the hands of the free market peeps? And all the while private enterprise from overseas comes in, uses the brand, then undercuts the local business till it falls like a proud tree which has been ringbarked.

     Latest is the arable land that is being sold to property speculators. The produce growers can't make a decent living. Their difficult, physical work involves great expertise with delicate, living things, uncertain and explosive weather events, introduced insects and fungi etc, and then demanding contracts from supermarkets compounded by the demise of the auction system. That limits what they can afford to pay staff who possibly work anti-social hours starting at sparrowfart, gathering and packing produce to send fresh into stores that day. Supplying good fresh food for the wellbeing and health of the people. That's how things go in the free market. https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018693232/building-on-prime-growing-land

     Under our old-style government that put limits and brakes on exploitation, tried to plan ahead for an orderly, practical, enterprising country, there was before the Resource Management Act a zoning system that ensured that good farming land stayed in farming; a thicket fence with thorns was erected to keep the predators at bay. Now they roam freely and like badly controlled dogs, leap and bite and destroy wellbeing in the polity. And it seems we are helpless against these masters and mistresses of the moment grabbing what they can for themselves, and being petted by the unthinking society for being 'wealth creators'.
     • Dennis Frank 5.1.1

       2 May 2019 at 11:20 am

       Labour? Who do they listen and learn from?

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Council_of_Trade_Unions

       https://www.fabians.org.nz/

       Re marketing, it's a cultural trend gone global, so no escape. I used the principle `know your enemy', starting 1976. Learnt all the other key aspects of capitalism too. Since it is rooted in human nature, best to comprehend it – part of how the world works. Plenty of excellent books providing deep insights…
   • Pat 5.2

     2 May 2019 at 8:17 pm

     "Shaw said: "We have delayed release of reports to give Government time to consider the reports so that when they are released for public consultation people will have a clear idea of the Government's thinking around the recommendations."

     or…'how the hell are we going to spin this?'
6. Observer Tokoroa 6

   2 May 2019 at 10:01 am

   Yes Cleangreen

   May the re-entry into the Pike River Mine today be a humane and safe event. For, families wish to know how their fathers and sons, in detail, so dreadfully lost their lives.

   Until very late in its sad governance National never had any interest or care for the Workers of New Zealand. Threadbare at best, no effective regulation was the active policy of Mr key, Mr English, Simon Bridges, Mrs Collins, Mrs Bennett.

   It developed a care policy for the staff of Worm Farms. But no care for the hazadous Forestry Industry which has sent far too many bodies to the grave.

   John Key – still found enough energy in his septic mind – to harass the families of the Miners – and the Weast Coast. Shocking.

   National are a dismal, hateful and harmful group of Narcissists. Pike River is but one of their failures.

   Simon Bridges has taken up the Role of National Bully. Having left our Hospitals as stink holes. He left our schools and education in the usual National piddle Muddle. He only ever praises himself. He is the child that never grew up.
7. Morrissey 7

   2 May 2019 at 10:06 am

   Venezuela – Guaidó Got Snookered – White House Starts Beating War Drums

   Moon of Alabama, May 1, 2019

   Yesterday's failed coup attempt in Venezuela significantly hurt the Trump administration's international standing. It delegitimized its Venezuelan clients Juan Guaidó and Leopoldo López. After recognizing that their original 'regime change' plan failed (again) the White House starts to beat the war drums.

   That wasn't the plan:

   The Trump administration, which has backed Mr. Guaidó since he first challenged Mr. Maduro’s authority more than three months ago, clearly thought the day would unfold differently.

   There is no official explanation why the Trump administration believed that the comical coup attempt by Juan Guaidó and his master Leopolo López would work.

   There are signs though that the government of President Nicolas Maduro set a trap. Several people in the top echelon of the Venezuelan government gave false promises that they would join the U.S. proxy side. They snookered Guaidó into launching his coup to let him fail. ….

   Read more….

   https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/05/venezuela-guaid%C3%B3-got-snookered-white-house-starts-beating-war-drums.html#more
   • Gabby 7.1

     2 May 2019 at 10:10 am

     Unless it was just the yankers sowing dissension and mistrust morsissey.
     • Morrissey 7.1.1

       2 May 2019 at 10:35 am

       They're certainly giving it the full court press, Baggers. They'd turn Venezuela into Libya if they could.

       But they can't.
       • adam 7.1.1.1

         2 May 2019 at 1:02 pm

         The wargasim from some commentators over Venezuela is frightening.

         But one thing is now clear, we now know who the white nationalist are on this site. Those promoting violence in Venezuela.
         • lprent 7.1.1.1.1

           2 May 2019 at 1:55 pm

           We all know what the dimwits on the site look like as well. They are like you. Making correlations without any backing evidence on the basis that others disagree with you.

           Do that kind of flame war tactic again, and your handle will migrate permanently to "adam the dimwit".

           That should assist in reminding you that the tactic is frowned on.
   • Kevin 7.2

     2 May 2019 at 10:31 am

     Spot on as usual Morrissey.

     Would love to know what is going on behind the scenes between Russia, China and the USA.
8. Morrissey 8

   2 May 2019 at 10:59 am

   The extradition of Julian Assange threatens all of us.

   https://consortiumnews.com/2019/04/30/vips-extradition-of-julian-assange-threatens-us-all/
   • adam 8.1

     2 May 2019 at 12:57 pm

     The message is clear, don't publish anything that will hurt the empire.
9. mac1 9

   2 May 2019 at 11:34 am

   Oh joy!

   "New Zealand is ranked 7th most popular bolthole for migrating "high net wealth" people.

   The Global Wealth Migration Review 2019 tracking the migration of millionaires, multi-millionaires ($10m-$99.99m), centi-millionaires ($100m-$999.99m), and billionaires, says the flow of high net wealth individuals (HNWIs) into and out of a country is a good gauge of the health of an economy."

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/112378465/global-report-ranks-new-zealand-as-7th-most-popular-bolthole-for-millionaires

   The article goes on to list reasons why these individuals leave their own countries- "safety, pollution, schooling opportunities, tax, business opportunities, healthcare, oppressive governments, and religious tensions."

   We are behind Australia in first place, the US, Canada, Switzerland, the United Arab Emirates, and the combined tax havens of the Caribbean (including Bermuda, The British Virgin Islands, St Barts, Antigua and St Kitts". We are ahead of "Singapore, Portugal, Israel ,Greece and Spain".

   An interesting review. Our equality rating is still very high at 27%.
   • One Two 9.1

     2 May 2019 at 11:59 am

     …"says the flow of high net wealth individuals (HNWIs) into and out of a country is a good gauge of the health of an economy."…

     No, it really isn't.
     • mac1 9.1.1

       2 May 2019 at 12:10 pm

       Thanks for your opinion. Do you have evidence to support this opinion and the one you just posted at 10 below?
       • One Two 9.1.1.1

         2 May 2019 at 12:21 pm

         Go find it yourself…it is all readily available…

         Your link to an opinion piece by some irrelevant stuff regurgitator …not evidence…

         So, based on the link not being evidence in support of the cut paste…first you can substantiate the claim that NZ's rockstar economy is behind attracting wealthy people… and how the movements of wealthy people is an indicator of good economic health…

         Bolt-hole does not equal good economic health indicator….there is a pointer for you…

         …if you can adequately provide a sound starting point as evidence on the above…(not a stuff/NHZ link) which will not do at all…then we can move on with the discussion from there..
         • mac1 9.1.1.1.1

           2 May 2019 at 1:25 pm

           The link I posted gave access to the Review which I also named in my comment.

           That Review is easily accessible to you. It has some 47 pages and is a document with some merit. I base my opinions upon that.
           • One Two 9.1.1.1.1.1

             2 May 2019 at 3:18 pm

             Fair enough mac1…

             I do not agree that the movement of wealthy people of the nations they make use of for bolt holes is an indication of those economies so called good health…

             So called wealth moves itself to where it can take advantage of favourable conditions to serve its own purposes…well understood as the fully rebuffed theory of trickle-down economics…

             Wealthy people who have taken flight from nations which they have in many cases helped to hollow out…have plundered and benefited from personally, not only at the expense of their own nations…but at the expense of the nations they then seek to invade (such as NZ) … again taking advantage of lax laws and regulations which regular kiwis have not such position to utilize…

             Setting up a bolt hole may or may not provide some short term injection into local economies…but again that is not an indicator of the health of an economy selected to leech off the back off buying access to because it is geographically expedient to do so…

             NZ and indeed the global economy could economically implode…and still the wealth / wealthy would migrate to nations such as NZ …because…bolt hole…

             The state of an economy would have no part to play in the decision…

             Which is why I contested the statement you referenced in the original comment…because it is incorrect…

             Which it is.
10. One Two 10

    2 May 2019 at 11:48 am

    https://www.channelnews.com.au/900-satellites-to-deliver-low-cost-5g-right-across-australia/

    Because OneWeb’s satellites are low orbiting they will be closer to the earth allowing for better web performance so that someone in the far North of Australia could watch a grand final in real time with no latency.

    https://www.cnet.com/news/fcc-approves-spacex-plan-to-put-over-7000-satellites-in-orbit/

    The Federal Communications Commission on Thursday approved SpaceX's request to build, deploy and operate over 7,000 satellites in the very-low-Earth orbit. SpaceX will also have more frequency bands added to its previously authorized satellites…

    The company's Starlink program is designed to use satellites at a much lower orbit to improve internet connectivity on the ground, even in rural and remote places with little to no internet access.

    The approval on Thursday gives SpaceX flexibility to provide high-speed broadband coverage for more areas in the US and worldwide. The licenses also require that SpaceX's satellites be deployed within nine years.

    No explanation or adequate engagement with the human populace, and not a single safety test exists for the technology which will beam digital data using frequencies and modulation never previously activated by nature throughout the entire story of human evolution…

    Earths atmosphere is likely already irreparably damaged…for human biological purposes…

    ….No need to be concerned about further negative environmental impacts…
    • marty mars 10.1

      2 May 2019 at 11:59 am

      No comment on your content but the layout makes it hard to read. Don't use italics I think instead use the " marks in the menu of the comment editor and indent quotes – makes it so much easier to read in my opinion. Then your comments stand out because they are hard against the left margin. I also wouldn't bold very much. Only other thing is I put the link at the end – I suppose my marketing background means I want to hit em with the key point first up mostly – and then evidence it up and link. Anyway hope that helps.
      • One Two 10.1.1

        2 May 2019 at 12:06 pm

        Appreciate the feedback marty….thanks.

        Also browser type, operating system and device type (tablet/laptop/desktop/mobile) will influence how any post appears to the reader…many variables involved…

        That said, the top to bottom structure can be a thing for folks who don't read more than a headline plus a sentence or two…

        Most often I read entire posts including the links…
        • Wayne 10.1.1.1

          2 May 2019 at 3:06 pm

          The transmission power from these satellites will be very low. At the earths surface it will be about the same as cellphone towers.

          That is logical. The supplier of these satellites basically wants to supplant the current terrestrial based cell phone transmission system. They want cellphone operators to migrate to their system for the complete world wide coverage that will be provided. No more dead spots.

          So I can’t really see any adverse environmental effects, or at least no more than the current terrestrial cell phone system.
          • One Two 10.1.1.1.1

            2 May 2019 at 3:33 pm

            So I can’t really see any adverse environmental effects, or at least no more than the current terrestrial cell phone system.

            To understand where the adverse environmental and biological effects already exist due to present day wireless technology, and will be amplified in the very near future…

            …Implies an understanding of the technologies , how they function and what is required to enable the indented future use of the mmwv pulsed technology and the deployment of machine to machine orientated communications networks…and how that technology has absolutely no precedent in the evolution of this planet …or in the evolution of any species which has occurred due to perfection of environmental and atmospheric elements which enabled life to begin and evolve…

            The transmission power from these satellites will be very low. At the earths surface it will be about the same as cellphone towers.

            Hint: It is absolutely nothing to do with power levels… you have that completely wrong…

            Is that your level of technical understanding on this subject?

            No more dead spots … seriously ?

            Would you like to have this conversation…open offer…

            Or are you comfortable with your contribution to it?
            • Wayne 10.1.1.1.1.1

              2 May 2019 at 4:24 pm

              Enlighten us on why a satellite based system will be harmful, that is more harmful than cell phone tower transmissions.
              • One Two …

                2 May 2019 at 5:08 pm

                I didn't say that the satellites would or would not be more harmful than cell towers, Wayne (assuming you mean existing macro towers?)… and neither are the telco/tech companies involved… they do not know… as they have not performed any safety studies using the technology…not a single one…

                What's documented is the environmental impact of land based microwave signals used in current technology of 2,3,4G LTE etc pulsed modulation…and the environmental and biological impacts of mmwv modulations at the higher frequencies required by envisaged furure use cases for next generation wireless communications networks…

                There is no shortage of studies been undertaken since WW2 until present time…I've posted some over recent months, but a simple web search will locate them for you to read from…here are a few to get you started…

                https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.03683

                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29459303

                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23051584

                https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/7521097894.pdf

                What is misleadingly called 5G is (as I am assuming in your case…certainly others on this site who are unaware) assumed to be simply be an upgrade to the existing microwave based networks…which is 100% incorrect…

                5G is a complete transition away from the use of microwave modulating technologies, towards land, air and space based mmwv modulation… supported by infrastructure which is presently unused commercially outside of military grade crowd dispersal weaponry… (beamforming directed energy)…

                The technology (infrastructure, modulation and frequencies) are untested commercially as admitted by the telco/tech companies themselves…

                So infrastructure heavy are the required platforms that it is unfathomable in the climate critical time which we live in, that such damaging and intrusive technology is being deployed…

                Although a rapidly increasing number of cities are putting moratoriums in place to halt the land based deployments…
              • KJT …

                2 May 2019 at 6:43 pm

                Less harmful, as the better sight lines mean less transmitting power per area covered.

                But then, there are the emissions, upper atmosphere pollution, from all those rocket launches.
                • One Two …

                  2 May 2019 at 10:35 pm

                  First para is incorrect…technology is completely different between microwave and mmwv…both are environmentally and biologically harmful…

                  Power supply required for mmwv is far higher anyway…but that's another part of the discussion…

                  Second para is on the money…
          • Andre 10.1.1.1.2

            2 May 2019 at 4:27 pm

            Enjoying your trip through the looking glass?
            • greywarshark 10.1.1.1.2.1

              2 May 2019 at 5:45 pm

              Cripes Andre there may be more info in what One Two says than there is in your comments. Except yours are usually easier to read. But don't have a go at 1-2 for nothing. Save your satire up.

              5G does sound concerning – I wonder about the whales and all the myriad of animals who don't develop technology as we do, they have it built in.
              • Andre …

                2 May 2019 at 6:13 pm

                When it comes to electromagnetics and health issues, there's a long long history of nutters scaremongering and provoking a lot of expensive studies that conclusively demonstrate there is very very little to be concerned about.

                The first one of these false alarms I ever looked into was the "cancer from living near powerlines". It was at least biologically plausible – extremely low frequency photons from 50Hz or 60Hz AC will penetrate all the way through the body, and it's at least plausible that very low frequencies will interfere with some biological processes. The scare was initiated by someone trying to explain clusters of cancers, so just drove around to the addresses of the victims in one city. And said aha, many of them are near probable sources of high EM fields from powerlines, so that must be it. However, careful study of much bigger datasets conclusively showed that to be a false association.

                The next one that comes to mind is a cluster of testicular cancers in traffic cops in the eastern US in the early 90s. They'd be sitting in their cars with their radar guns in their laps, and guys being guys they'd be fondling them and occasionally triggering them. Basically they were nuking their nuts, they may as well having been plopping their packages in their home microwaves set on defrost, but without the hassle of closing the door. So when there was a cluster of testicular cancer, the question was obvious. But again, careful study over a much larger dataset showed that to be just a random statistical cluster.

                From a biophysics point of view, cancer from a radar gun is much less plausible, because as frequency increases, penetration decreases. Radar guns operating at around 8GHz penetrate a few mm at best into flesh. Microwave ovens operate at about 2.5GHz (same as some WiFi). At GHz frequencies, the only biophysically plausible damage mechanism is simple heating.

                You may have come across info about a crowd dispersal weapon operating in the high microwave band – a "heat ray" weapon. That operates at 95GHz, to induce very rapid heating at the skin surface only (where all the nerve endings are) to very quickly induce a burning sensation without actually heating deep enough to cause burning. But heat-ray weapons, and microwave ovens operate at vastly higher power levels than any communications devices, several orders of magnitude higher.

                By far the most dangerous radiation most of us are exposed to is the UV component in sunlight, which actually is ionising radiation that causes chemical reactions and genetic damage. Followed by medical X-rays (I had a project making a medical device for heat surgeons doing ops on x-ray tables. Their rate of cancers above the neck are horrifying, they're absolute bloody heroes exposing themselves to that risk for the sake of helping others). Then possibly extra exposure to cosmic rays from flying, flight crews have significantly raised cancer risks for a bunch of cancers.
                • One Two …

                  2 May 2019 at 6:43 pm

                  You do not even have elementary level understanding of the technologies involved…I’ve said it before…why do you even involve yourself in these conversations ?

                  By far the most dangerous radiation most of us are exposed to is the UV component in sunlight which actually is ionising radiation…

                  That statement is where you emphatically illustrate the level of dissonance you operate from on this subject…

                  Sunlight birthed every species which has ever existed past and present…including our own…it birthed all life sustaining ecosystems on this planet…

                  It has been proven that genetic damage results from ironising and non ironising resulting from the RF's of wireless networks that already exist today…so many studies that it is undeniable fact…yet you seek to deny…

                  What do you suppose might happen when orders of magnitude increases in the saturation levels of RF's at never before activated frequencies using known damage causing mmwv modulation…are deployed on land and in space….

                  I'll save you the response…you have NFI…yet are seemingly comfortable to wave away the concerns of those who do know (not referring to myself)…and give a figurative free pass to an entire industry that does not want to know…hence they are not performing any studies…

                  On this and the vaccine subject you are treading a line of illiteracy for which there must be an explanation…

                  Do you know what it is…or is it simply down to the nutters… you reckon are still those types who are raising concerns presently…

                  See, I don't believe you are as stupid as your comments state that you are, at face value…so there must be something else going on…
                  • McFlock …

                    2 May 2019 at 6:58 pm

                    just… wow…
                  • solkta …

                    2 May 2019 at 7:05 pm

                    Are you going to throw in your opinion on 1080 to complete the set?
                  • Andre …

                    2 May 2019 at 7:16 pm

                    I'm still wading through your fourth link. Gotta say, that's one of the finer examples of pseudo-science woo-babble I've come across. In particular, it makes outstanding use of the technique of talking about established fact A to try to persuade the reader about completely unrelated assertion B.

                    But it gave me an actual fall-off-my-chair laughing out loud when it started going on about HAARP in the middle of a section about bee colony collapse disorder.
                    • Bazza64 …

                      2 May 2019 at 7:21 pm

                      Andre

                      we are back in tin foil hat territory with our resident comedian. I had the flu shot today, my thinking has become blurred so maybe I am developing autism ?

                      Maybe a Deepak Chopra book for our friend ?
                    • One Two …

                      2 May 2019 at 7:29 pm

                      That response is another example of your level, Andre…

                      it ties perfectly in with what you believe regarding nutters , when in fact they are anything but…

                      Stick to Gorski, Andre…it's an appropriate match with your enjoyment of name calling and use of the term pseudoscience…which you repetitively show that you do not understand how to use the word…

                      That you responded with only a reference to HAARP…you felt compelled to disrupt the wading to comment… because you came across that technology being referenced in the document…

                      That it is the primary take away for you at this point…because you are not able to argue the content of the document…as it is beyond your willingness…not your capability…your willingness to grasp…

                      The question is…why are you seemingly so unwilling …what is the underlying barrier?

                      Edit: Do you consider the below people to be nutters ?

                      Published by Prof. Dr. med. Karl Hecht, Dr. med. Markus Kern, Prof. Dr. phil. Karl Richter, and Dr. med. Hans-Christoph Scheine

                      Advisory Board:

                      Prof. Dr. rer. nat. Klaus Buchner
                      Prof. Dr. med. Rainer Frentzel-Beyme
                      Dr. rer. nat. Lebrecht von Klitzing
                      Prof. Dr. phil. Jochen Schmidt
                      Prof. Dr. jur. Erich Schöndorf
                      Dr. rer. nat. Ulrich Warnke
                      Prof. Dr. med. Guido Zimmer
                    • One Two …

                      2 May 2019 at 8:05 pm

                      3.9.1 HAARP changes the natural diurnal variation of the magnetic fields

                      The information on the HAARP project is thanks to Guy Cramer (USA); it was made available to me by Joris Everaert (Belgium).

                      HAARP (High-frequency Active Auroral Research Project) is the abbreviation for a military project of the US Air Force and Navy. 180 towers have been erected in an uninhabited area near the city of Gakona in Alaska, together constituting an antenna complex.

                      The frequency is around 2.5-10 MHz and the power is extremely high at 3 million Watt ("high power, high frequency phased array radio transmitter”).

                      This is the strongest technical transmitter on earth. Its effectiveness is increased by linking the antenna array with another antenna array in Alaska, via HIPAS (High Power Auroral Stimulation). The transmitters communicate with submarines deep in the ocean and scan the horizon as a type of deep earth radar.

                      But the frequencies are also absorbed by the ionosphere. They heat up certain layers, creating ion turbulences by day, that are modulated onto the earth magnetic field as unnatural magnetic fields.

                      This masks the regular effects the sun has on the ionosphere. As such, the bees lose an orientation that served them for millions of years as a reliable indicator of the time of day encoded in the regular variations of the magnetic field changes as the sunrises and the ionosphere temperature rises.

                      The effects of the HAARP transmitter activity should be further investigated especially in Canada, the USA and Europe. Since the disappearance of the bees was first documented in precisely these countries, a causal relationship can no longer be excluded.

                      The following simultaneous events tend to confirm this: In 2006, the increase of the transmitting power from 960 000 Watt to four times that power (3 600000 Watt), was approved for the first time.

                      Exactly in this year, reports originated in all the "scanned" transmission regions of the disrupted homing ability of bees.

                      Another disruptive effect may play a role. Through the irregular heating of the ionosphere, the air at great heights begins to “glow”, with visible frequencies in the near infrared region (630nm) and the associated magnetic field can be detected at the earth’s surface

                      (PEDERSEN et al. 2003, RODRIGUEZ et

                      al. 1998). Since the bees use not only the UV component of sunlight for orientation, but also the longer infrared wave-lengths (EDRICH et al. 1979, VAN DER GLAS 1977) the new light in the sky may also be a new disrupting stimulus to them.

                      What was it from this section of the document, as it postulated, including citations around bee colony collapse… which made you fall off your chair laughing?

                      Be specific…
                    • Andre …

                      2 May 2019 at 8:46 pm

                      Well, HAARP is such a magnet for conspiracy nutters that someone invoking it in an article clearly designed to appeal to conspiracy nutters is just too funny.

                      There's a wide range of experiments done at HAARP, and it's utterly improbable that all of these different experiments are going to have the same effect on bees thousands or even tens of thousands of kilometres away. Any weirdness in infrared or other light is going to be a local effect geographically limited to a very small line-of-sight area around the array and time-limited to while that particular experiment is being conducted.

                      While 3MW of power going into an antenna array sounds like a lot, it's as nothing compared to the natural electromagnetic processes going on all the time in the atmosphere. The author even alludes to a few of these other vastly more powerful processes.

                      It's also really funny that there's much more powerful antenna arrays elsewhere that do similar experiments, but for some reason don't attract the attention of conspiracy nutters.

                      Let alone that there’s so many other obvious well documented stressors we’re putting on bees that trying to invoke something as far-fetched as HAARP that has zero plausible linkage is just ludicrous. Let alone the absurdity of doing that in the midst of trying to make an argument against the EM waves we’re using for modern communications.
                    • One Two []

                      2 May 2019 at 9:26 pm

                      The first paragraph was all you needed to write , Andre…it's what you believe…it is who you are through the comments you write…like the dickhead flow chart…but you don't seem to self recognize…

                      The document , publishers, advisory board, the research contained including citations are beyond you…

                      It is beyond your self limiting contraints to allow information which exposes you to yourself…so you're attracted to the vile banality of sites such as Gorski…they appeal to you in unhealthy ways…

                      And yet you don't recognize it.

                      Utterly improbable…

                      Is about as close to scientific as your comments get…

                      So I'll ask you again..are they nutters ?

                      Published by Prof. Dr. med. Karl Hecht, Dr. med. Markus Kern, Prof. Dr. phil. Karl Richter, and Dr. med. Hans-Christoph Scheine

                      Advisory Board:

                      Prof. Dr. rer. nat. Klaus Buchner
                      Prof. Dr. med. Rainer Frentzel-Beyme
                      Dr. rer. nat. Lebrecht von Klitzing
                      Prof. Dr. phil. Jochen Schmidt
                      Prof. Dr. jur. Erich Schöndorf
                      Dr. rer. nat. Ulrich Warnke
                      Prof. Dr. med. Guido Zimmer
                    • Andre …

                      2 May 2019 at 9:24 pm

                      Or if you want another example of the woo-babble in that piece, have a look at the nonsense about birds flying in formation.

                      It is indeed quite probable that birds in flight develop electric fields around them. From friction with air and just the electric field that always exists above ground anyway. But then the author goes on to make the completely evidence-free assertion that birds detect and use these electric fields to maintain formation. Somehow this evidence-free assertion appears intended to reinforce an argument against humans using EM waves for communication.

                      But it is well-established that birds fly in a v-formation so the trailing birds can take advantage of some free lift caused by trailing vortices from the bird in front and thereby save energy.

                      Now, what's more probable? That birds can detect aerodynamic forces through their feathers and wings and adjust and optimise their position in response to the forces they feel (as they need to do in every flying situation, not just a v-formation), or that they somehow develop an additional redundant woo-sense for electric fields that's only useful in v-formation (and is going to be wildly variable depending on atmospheric moisture).
                    • One Two []

                      2 May 2019 at 9:35 pm

                      …quite probable…

                      …what's more probable…

                      That your musings are less credible than the data contained within the document…And the credibility of those involved in its production…

                      That's what's more probable..

                      Continue reading Gorski…no need to guess why his writing style appeals to you…
                    • Andre …

                      2 May 2019 at 9:49 pm

                      Buwaaaahahahaha!

                      Leaving aside the merits of arguing from authority, if you think arguing from authority is a valid thing to do, the first authority to check out is the actual author of the piece. Ulrich Warnke.

                      Seems to be this dude. Here's what he has to say about himself:

                      Since 1989: Head of the Technical Working Group Biomedicine-Construction of various therapeutic and diagnostic systems, all non-invasive.
                      The working group had the duty to supply the physical and philosophical quantum and string theories on the phenomena of life (especially in physiology, biology, psychology and medicine). This resulted in a completely new view of the organism with surprising new approaches for psychics, treatment and prophylaxis.

                      New age bullshit at its absolute finest.

                      http://circularsociety.com/index.php/team/ulrich-warnke/
                    • One Two []

                      2 May 2019 at 10:08 pm

                      Buwaaaahahahaha!

                      You're a grown man, Andre…not a child…

                      The question was..are they nutters…

                      You've not answered…but ever true to Gorskis tactics…pull up anything you can find…misinterpret it…due to extreme predjudice…use term such as new age…as if that's actually derogatory…it's not…

                      As for what you quoted from…you clearly don't understand it…so you ridicule it with an infantile laugh…and another incorrectly used terminology…

                      As if that somehow invalidates the paper…not only does your ape'd tactic not invalidate the paper, contents or publishers…

                      It does not give you peace of mind within yourself…

                      I'm replying to yet the latest example of your failed attempt to self sooth..

                      You'll need a better pacifier to suck on…
                    • McFlock …

                      2 May 2019 at 10:26 pm

                      The question was..are they nutters…

                      cf:

                      New age bullshit at its absolute finest.

                      There's your answer.
                    • One Two []

                      2 May 2019 at 10:44 pm

                      Nope. That's not the answer…

                      Nor was it your question to answer…

                      But you jumped in anyway and wedgied yourself in process…

                      You little guys…so committed to eachother…
                    • McFlock …

                      2 May 2019 at 11:19 pm

                      It's a funny thread.

                      Everyone's just basking in the reflected glory of your ironising radiation.
                    • marty mars …

                      2 May 2019 at 11:27 pm

                      The irony is that I've starched to be board.
                    • Psycho Milt …

                      3 May 2019 at 6:19 am

                      Everyone's just basking in the reflected glory of your ironising radiation.

                      Please don't! Black Sabbath wrote "Iron Man" about a man who spent too long exposed to ironising radiation – it's a terrible fate.
                  • Incognito …

                    2 May 2019 at 9:58 pm

                    “ironising and non ironising”

                    What physics are your referring to?

                    “genetic damage”

                    What biology are you referring to?
                    • One Two …

                      2 May 2019 at 10:14 pm

                      You're not interested…remember that comment you made…

                      If you are…look it up for yourself…
                  • Incognito …

                    2 May 2019 at 10:57 pm

                    Not feeling very helpful today?

                    I did look it up and got nothing!

                    I have never heard of ironising or non-ironising with regard to genetic damage (presumably DNA damage). I’m sure you will point out the obvious gaps in my education, knowledge, and understanding and direct me to Google. However, I ask again, what are you referring to?
                    • One Two …

                      2 May 2019 at 11:15 pm

                      I appreciate your articles and the comments you post…

                      I also knew that despite your claims, and feigning loss of interest…because of my comments no less…that you would still be interested…

                      As I said in the same exchange…I'm not a teacher…

                      But I'm sure you'll figure out how to locate the articles about dna damage from NIR…

                      There was a large scale one commissioned by the industry regulators…which was met by the sounds of crickets when it was published…sidelined and dismissed…

                      There is no shortage of studies and articles..
                  • Incognito …

                    3 May 2019 at 7:35 am

                    No, you seem to misunderstand my question. It is quite simple:

                    What are you referring to with “ironising or non-ironising”?

                    I went to PubMed and got zilch (i.e. nothing)!?
              • Andre …

                2 May 2019 at 7:41 pm

                Oh, and the whales, well they're at enormous risk from getting run over by ships, murdered by various human tribes, swallowing plastic, getting their entire sensory systems fucked by seismic testing and sonar and general marine traffic noise, poisoned by accumulating various toxins since they're way up in the food chain.

                But when they are underwater it's completely implausible that they're in any way affected by the various electromagnetic radiations we throw around to communicate. Because salt water is very conductive so the waves just don't penetrate. (Not gonna get into how to communicate to submarines)
11. greywarshark 11

    2 May 2019 at 12:00 pm

    Those attending funerals for multiple family members in car accidents could remember them specially in a little ritual for themselves all their lives. There could be a family member at the ceremony who calls for all to never forget those who have died, and to remember them as they buckle up their seat belt each time they get into a car. It would be appropriate, to ensure remembrance and care for others after the sad event of the crash, that shows love for the lost family members and guides the still living.

    28 April – https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/388243/taupo-crash-thousands-expected-at-tangi-for-seven-family-members

    It has not been advised that not wearing seat belts was the reason for such an horrific toll from this crash, but it seems similar to the crash a month ago in which five people died, that I have linked to below.

    1 April – Taupō fatal crash: police give details of investigation -"Unfortunately people were not wearing their seat belts in the vehicle and that has led to the deaths," Mr Troy told Morning Report.The family was in a five-seater vehicle and the 11-year-old was believed to have been in the back seat with three other young people.

    "…when people are not restrained, or items are not restrained in a vehicle, when you have a crash, those items become missiles and they do all go forward." https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/386123/taupo-fatal-crash-police-give-details-of-investigation
12. Observer Tokoroa 12

    2 May 2019 at 12:30 pm

    Yes Morrissey !

    Assange' female staff will get a break from Julian's bare back activities.

    He has managed things quite well to his way of thinking:

    1) An Extradition from The Ecuador Embassy UK

    2) An Extradition into Her Majesty's renowned Justice system of the United Kingdom for playing fast and loose with his various summons.

    3) A possible Extradition to Sweden who summed him up as a bit of a nuisance and a sour, dangerous sex beast.

    4) Yet to happen, but a very likely Extradition to The United States of America. Where he may meet the Charming Chelsea. This Lass is amazing. She steals Information about America going to War(s). Then she publicises that while they are doing war, they actually do War which invovles nasty pain.

    It is very wrong to do War- when you are at War according to the likes of people who don't understand what War is.. Even Assange gets this wrong. Tch Tch Tch. When America puts up a Notice declaring it is going to do a War, it is best to believe it. Same with the UK. Same with women who claim they have been raped – and have been.

    5) Assange, after a number of years might be Extradited to Northern Australia – from whence he came, and also where his appearant hacking and stuff began. He could be Sub Extradited to one of John Howard's and Tony Abbott's off shore Islands for untold years as punishment for theft from an Australian Allie – Namely: the USA. Those Islands are hell Holes.

    Avoid Them !
    • greywarshark 12.1

      2 May 2019 at 12:56 pm

      Morrissey was at 8 – pity you didn't press reply button and put your tasteless comment there OT.
13. greywarshark 13

    2 May 2019 at 12:44 pm

    Saving for a house? You may be in the wrong profession, place or century.

    Lists of cities with most billionaires (according to chart which was different from other figures from same source!)

    New York in 2014 tops with 103; then Hong Kong 93

    San Fransisco 74; then Moscow 69; London 62.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_billionaires

    List of wealthiest families in the world. NZ isn't on this list of billionaires, but Australia has a few.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_families

    Historical

    Further information: List of banking families

    Excluding royal dynasties and land-owning aristocracy, the wealthiest families since the emergence of banking and early capitalism in the Italian Renaissance were:[citation needed]

    • The Bardi family of Florence (14th century)
    • The Medici family, as owners of the Medici Bank, the richest family in 15th-century Europe.[50]
    • The Gondi family of Florence, financial partners of the Medici family in the 15th century.
    • The Fugger family of mercantile bankers and venture capitalists was among the richest family in the 16th century.[51]
    • The Welser family, alongside the Fugger one of the most important families of merchant bankers in 16th-century Europe.
    • The Baring family, owners of an important merchant bank in London in the 18th to 19th centuries.
    • The Schröder family, a leading Hanseatic family of Hamburg in the 18th to 19th centuries.
    • The Rothschild family of bankers became the richest family in the mid-19th century.[52]
    • The Goldman–Sachs family, owners of the Goldman Sachs investment bank from 1869 to 1912.[53]

    I have heard of the Du Ponts, the Rockefellers, the
    Du Pont $14 billion https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/070116/top-25-richest-american-families.asp

    Rockefeller $318 billion (You read that right: John D. Rockefeller, the founder of Standard Oil, was over three times richer than Bill Gates is today.) https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/how-rich-is-the-rockefeller-family-today
    • alwyn 13.1

      2 May 2019 at 7:02 pm

      The Todd family would qualify if the list was accurate. There net wealth would be, if NBR have any skill at all, about $2.4 billion US dollars.

      http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/a1e600ea/hart-retains-top-spot-in-nbr-rich-list-followed-by-newcomer-thiel.html

      Lists of family wealth are pretty silly of course. After all why don't you include the Gates' family? Bill, Melinda and their kids would certainly qualify as a family.
      • swordfish 13.1.1

        2 May 2019 at 10:38 pm

        I'll tell you a wee story about the Todds, alwyn.

        Back in the 1990s, a close friend of one of my family members (she was a former IHC pre-school teacher) agreed to baby-sit the Down Syndrome child of one of the Todd sisters. She expected to be paid the going rate … though held out at least a faint hope that she might even receive a little more … given the extraordinary wealth of the Todd Family.

        Guess what the Todd sister paid her ? … a stalk of silverbeet.

        But it gets worse … it wasn't just any stalk of silverbeet … it was an extremely elderly stalk of silverbeet … one that had clearly gone well past its prime.

        That's how the family became mega-wealthy in the first place, I guess.
        • alwyn 13.1.1.1

          3 May 2019 at 12:03 am

          You can tell any story you like. People are fond of fantasies.

          Shall I tell you a tale about one of the leading figures in the current Government? Stole my XXXX from the car when I gave XXX a lift home after XXX had an accident and killed a pedestrian while driving drunk.

          You don't believe it? Why not? There is at least as much evidence for it as there is your bullshit tale.
          • swordfish 13.1.1.1.1

            3 May 2019 at 2:27 am

            Not in the habit of making up bullshit, alwyn. True story. It amused us when she told us at the time and, in retrospect, she found it amusing herself, albeit a little jaw-dropping. She knew the Todd sister through looking after her down syndrome child in the past. (Quite frankly, what on earth would be the point in concocting such a tale ?). The fact that it upsets you to the extent you've had this visceral reaction is … well … just a little bizarre. Is it that you idolize the very wealthy ?
      • Sacha 13.1.2

        3 May 2019 at 12:18 am

        "if the list was accurate"

        It's wikipedia – feel free to add them yourself.
14. OnceWasTim 14

    2 May 2019 at 1:00 pm

    Hello all!

    How are your fundamentals?

    Sincerely hoping you've all got a positive sentiment going forward on the back of recent political developments and that we can all raise social confidence before the next erection in 18 months time. There's also a Well-being Budjit imminent with many hoping for transformation.

    (Oh how we have fallen over the past three decades – secure your undercarriages – just in case. The cistern has well and truly been broken and even Twyford's are struggling to fic it)

    Apologies ……. just been listening to the latest BizzNews and WhurlWatch on RNZ Neshnool
    • AB 14.1

      2 May 2019 at 2:45 pm

      OWT – I'm currently engaged in deepening the strategic focus of my fundamentals. Ongoing client engagement initiatives are empowering my discovery of alternative perspectives across the lifecycle of service delivery actualites. Some interesting process improvement concepts promise a quantum change in customer experience expressed via actionable data points going forward.

      I hope you are as excited as I am. (I know you will be)
      • greywarshark 14.1.1

        2 May 2019 at 2:56 pm

        Now that's real power talk! Even if i can't understand it it appeals to my cringing set of prejudices which preponderate to intellectual verbiage. And it probably has the same affect on those at meetings who don't like to declare their ignorance of the actual meaning, and as the wording makes them feel inferior and under-educated and unable to understand it, will vote for anything that the person most obscure puts forward.

        I hadn't thought of that possibility, but know that it is quite hard to keep saying 'I don't understand that or what you said before either'; and be the only one to do so. Makes one stand out all a-lonely.
      • OnceWasTim 14.1.2

        2 May 2019 at 4:01 pm

        Indeed I am @ AB.

        I'm currently pivoting towards a better life myself having constructed a platform which, like you will enable me to better consider all perspectives.

        Hopefully it'll become best practice among all who've managed to grasp, and fully understand their fundamentals
        • McFlock 14.1.2.1

          2 May 2019 at 4:41 pm

          Your proactive adoption of a "we"-based paradigm speaks to a fully engaged appreciation of the complexities involved in achieving vertical actualisation within dynamic environments.

          digital.
          • OnceWasTim 14.1.2.1.1

            2 May 2019 at 6:22 pm

            It's possible we might need to have a conversation some time @McFlock.

            As the Prime Minister just said (if I'm not mistaken as I watch One News),it maybe we have some resonations in common, and I’m sure there could be some mutually beneficial learnings going forward.

            I've been worrying all day about what to eat this evening. Problem solved – I'll whip up a nice rhubarb pie
    • lprent 14.2

      2 May 2019 at 3:15 pm

      erection?

      I am sure that many politicos do not get those….

      (continues the tasteless theme)
      • greywarshark 14.2.1

        2 May 2019 at 3:54 pm

        Perhaps the word was eruptions. Like in measles. (We seem to have plenty of those.)
15. JohnSelway 15

    2 May 2019 at 2:43 pm

    Oh man – I missed the flat earth conference!

    That would have been great fun
    • greywarshark 15.1

      2 May 2019 at 2:58 pm

      JS More detail please. These drive-by mouthings leave one feeling very flat.
    • Kevin 15.2

      2 May 2019 at 3:18 pm

      Was Mark Sergeant there?
      • greywarshark 15.2.1

        2 May 2019 at 3:47 pm

        don't know but I love his glasses and bow tie.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/112294771/flat-earthers-hold-conference-in-auckland-with-speakers-from-around-the-globe

        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/04/ninety-percent-of-our-membership-is-in-the-closet-flat-earthers-in-their-own-words.html
    • Grant 15.3

      2 May 2019 at 3:29 pm

      There was much merriment in this household when they were on tv news the other night.
    • gsays 15.4

      2 May 2019 at 4:48 pm

      It does bear repeating that they have nothing to fair but sphere itself.
      He said guffawing and slapping his thigh…
16. Bruce 16

    2 May 2019 at 3:19 pm

    I have always found an explanation in this book, Hope this is good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JARn16yojbQ
    • Gabby 16.1

      2 May 2019 at 4:56 pm

      There, there. There, there.
17. Morrissey 17

    2 May 2019 at 4:56 pm

    Message to a Criminal from the People of Venezuela

    https://dxczjjuegupb.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Trump-not-today.jpg
18. Observer Tokoroa 18

    2 May 2019 at 5:27 pm

    Careful where you tread …

    At the risk of upsetting the deeply August Greywarshark, I mention that The Pike River Recovery will not happen tomorrow.

    There is an unusual amount of Oxygen within a part of the Drift area. For safety reasons entry will be withheld until the problem has been investigated and made safe.

    It is a setback for the hopeful Families. But the Recovery Project will proceed when and as it can. For this is a test of safety first. Not alone for this Mine, but for all dangerous Work Areas, wherever they maybe.
    • greywarshark 18.1

      2 May 2019 at 5:50 pm

      I understood that we are in May OT, not in August! The peace of God which surpasses all understanding I give to you.
      • In Vino 18.1.1

        2 May 2019 at 6:56 pm

        "which passeth all understanding", please…

        I am now a sour old atheist, but I hate the language of old bible and prayer services being utterly mangled by artless modernisation.
        • greywarshark 18.1.1.1

          2 May 2019 at 9:05 pm

          It's not my fault I got it off google.
        • KJT 18.1.1.2

          5 May 2019 at 1:38 pm

          You prefer the King James, modernisation?
19. Ad 19

    2 May 2019 at 5:31 pm

    With the NZ Treasury Secretary resigning to head the Irish Reserve Bank, our Minister of Finance has a great opportunity to shift some key personnel within Treasury. Usually when each Chief goes, there's a chance to restructure all the Tier 2's as well.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1905/S00010/gabriel-makhlouf-to-be-new-central-bank-of-ireland-governor.htm

    Let's see if Mr Robertson can do better than round up the usual suspects, and actually start to tilt Treasury far clearer and stronger than the piss-weak reforms he generated over the Reserve Bank .

    [Held up in moderation because of slightly differently spelled e-mail address – Incognito]
20. Jenny - How to get there? 20

    3 May 2019 at 4:20 am

    The four horses of the [neo-liberal market driven] apocalypse

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/30/a-second-great-depression-is-coming-and-recession-99-9-likely-in-two-years-9336944/?fbclid=IwAR0apzJJItNDivousIkz7IctPK7aZruvsZDvXT8aF-ELNdrmJLJ8ZrOqpU0

    And it is also only a matter of time before the housing bubble bursts and we have to start demolishing all the newly built, but unsold homes, to keep prices up to 'stabilise the market'. As they did in California and Ireland and Spain.
21. Eco Maori 21

    4 May 2019 at 4:39 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute

    Its going to take a decade to build enough house for te tangata
22. Eco Maori 22

    4 May 2019 at 5:39 pm

    The wealthy live in a rose tinted glass bubble they cannot see inequality as a huge problem.

    1 they don't want to admit the system that gave them their wealth is fucked up.

    2 To much wealth gives them a superiority complex they believe that it's OK to have more money than 100 people need in a lifetime while we have tangata dieing under the bridge an in 3 world nations tamariki dieing of starvation .

    What's so wrong with the coloured tangata haveing a happy healthy life.?????????????????????????????.

    Of course rich people think inequality doesn’t matter. They don’t see it

    The ‘gated community’ effect means the more inequality grows, the easier it is for the rich not to notice

    The fundamental point is that it is possible for both inequality and incomes at the bottom to be growing at the same time. As the Productivity Commission chairman, Peter Harris, noted last year, “growth alone is no guarantee against widening disparity between rich and poor”. And that is exactly what’s happened in Australia in recent decades. Since the 1980s, income inequality has risen in fits and starts.

    ANU’s Peter Whiteford has charted a slow rise in inequality from the early 80s to the mid-90s, faster increases in the late 90s, and slower increases again up to the global financial crisis. Since then, income inequality has plateaued, constrained particularly by the significant increase in the age pension legislated by the Rudd government in 2009. Overall on the most common measure, the Gini coefficient ranging from 0 to 1, inequality has increased from around 0.27 in 1982 to just under 0.34 in 2015.

    Our prime minister recently opined that cancer treatment costs the patient nothing, until a chorus of sufferers quickly disabused him of that.

    While incomes at the bottom have grown, entrenched disadvantage persists. Over 180,000 working age Australians have been unemployed for more than 12 months, up from 135,000 five years ago. Over 13% of Australians live below the poverty line. But if incomes are rising for these people and inequality has recently plateaued, ask conservatives, why should we worry about wider gaps between rich and poor they are to worred about themselves to care what is happening to the poor common tangata. Ka kite ano links below

    P.S The rich robbed and are robbing the common poor tangata is Papatuanukue reality

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/02/of-course-rich-people-think-inequality-doesnt-matter-they-dont-see-it
23. Eco Maori 23

    4 May 2019 at 6:41 pm

    Kia ora Newshub

    Condolences to the Kiwi family who losted their father in Panama.

    Tawhirirmate is a powerful force the plane that got blown into the Awa while landing in America.

    The eco Maori effect is still going strong .

    Religion is a big part of the political games being – – – – – – in Australia much bigger than in Aotearoa .

    There you go Whanau no need to be a rocket scientist with what is happening in India and Bangladesh biggest hurricane in 20 years hope not to many tangata suffer .

    The weather controls US the Auckland Air port flights cancelled because of fog.

    There you go Murphys law insurance is going to be a wealthy person privilege that's how the capitalist system works the wealthy have to get the biggest return on their investment .

    We need to ban all plastic and plastic packaging I'm sure we could use paper bag and packaging but leaving it up to business is not going to achieve anything but a bigger MESS Ma te wa .

    Come on Facebook get it together breast cancer awareness is a very important issue if breast cancer any cancer is found early the higher the chances of serving it The Australian ad's about breast cancer . Ka kite ano
24. Eco Maori 24

    4 May 2019 at 6:56 pm

    Kia Kaha to the Maiden Wahine sailers the Maiden Yacht is in Auckland at the minute promoting Equality for Wahine eco Maori has your cause as one of the most important ones in Papatuanukue Ka kite ano P.S have to fix the neanderthal mess ladies
25. Eco Maori 25

    5 May 2019 at 9:15 am

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute .
26. Eco Maori 26

    5 May 2019 at 9:22 am

    Whanau here's a video that shows why I want a capital gains tax as all Aotearoa capital is going to flow over sea and leave little for our decendints this capital out flow is also causing housing shortage the wealthy buy houses and shut them up taking houses out of the rental market.

    https://youtu.be/HzSAmOQuyjU
27. Eco Maori 27

    5 May 2019 at 10:29 am

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    Need to get my TV back on Maori TV
28. Eco Maori 28

    5 May 2019 at 11:13 am

    Whanau I think that my explanation of the bad effects that chemicals that are in our kai to grow or preserve kai was a bit confusing it’s hard putting reality to paper when I have so many DISTRACTIONs.

    I'll keep it smart a living thing has limits to the build up of these toxins the more prosessed food and conventional chemical grown kai we eat the faster ones system is overloaded the shorter life you will have as your body cannot cope with the overload of the chemicals = cancer and organ failure =shorter life. The less you expose the Mokopuna to chemicals the longer life they will have .

    Sugar is the same the less we use the lower your chances are at getting diabetes we don't need sugar in our diets we need to put the shit in OUR petrol tanks

    This means that they can cause harmful or lethal effects after one single episode of ingestion, inhalation or skin contact. The symptoms are evident shortly after exposure or can arise within 48 hours. They can present as:

    • respiratory tract irritation, sore throat and/or cough
    • allergic sensitisation
    • eye and skin irritation
    • nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea
    • headache, loss of consciousness
    • extreme weakness, seizures and/or death

    Long term (or chronic) toxicity

    Pesticides can cause harmful effects over an extended period, usually following repeated or continuous exposure at low levels. Low doses don’t always cause immediate effects, but over time, they can cause very serious illnesses.

    Long term pesticide exposure has been linked to the development of Parkinson’s disease; asthma; depression and anxiety; cancer, including leukaemia and non-Hodgkin lymphoma; and attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder (ADHD

    Ka kite ano links below.

    http://www.pan-uk.org/health-effects-of-pesticides/
29. Eco Maori 29

    5 May 2019 at 11:48 am

    Kia ora R&R on Maori

    Of course the election was rigged by using the Internet it happened look at Cambridge analytical Facebook YouTube twitter all the Internet sites were used to accomplish that task people are so easy to be lead down the wrong I see it all the time now the amount of time the younger people spend on social media astounds me. Some people have been trying to influence Eco Maori using media but KNOW it doesn't work on ECO MAORI I see right through the bullshit .

    We just missed the big election rigging when national got rolled out of parliament onto the opposition seats . They are m8 with the founder of Cambridge analytical peter thiel if national won that election they would have cheated on the next election using peters software to minupulate the masses to believe their lies and vote them in. Ka kite ano P.S I agree with the Wahine words the right necks will use any move to steal power we have to be vigilant and look hard for evedince of there cheating .
30. Eco Maori 30

    5 May 2019 at 11:58 am

    R&R Eco Maori believes that making it compolsery to vote will help counter the cheats stealing power .
31. Eco Maori 31

    5 May 2019 at 3:10 pm

    Whanau briggs want Te Kooti whenua so briggs set Te Kooti up and stole his whenua. briggs underestimate Te Kooti MANA he paid with his life for that mistake. I have read a few versions of Te Kooti story and other Maori stories I can work out the correct version by discounting the biest from both versions I had worked out that Te Kooti was wronged now but a few years ago I believed what I read as fact that was when I was nieve NOT ANYMORE.

    My three younger brothers and I went to the local school, Makaraka Primary, and it was there that we first heard about Te Kooti and his guerilla followers and the part they’d played in the “Matawhero Massacre”.

    We heard how, back in 1868, they came down from the hills, forded the Waipaoa River, murdered the Matawhero settlers in the dead of night, and set fire to their houses

    In the fourth form at Gisborne High, there were two Māori classmates with the same surname as Te Kooti Rikirangi. I asked them once if they were his descendants, and they said they were but confessed to knowing little about him. My impression was that they were uncomfortable, perhaps even ashamed, to be associated with the name. So the silence in the wider Gisborne community about the story of Te Kooti was echoed, so it seemed, within some of his own family

    

    Te Kooti Arikirangi Te Turuki

    Te Kooti was born in Turanganui. He was Ngāti Maru, a hapū of Rongowhakaata, at Pā-o-Kahu. But, unlike most Māori in the area, he didn’t take up the Pai Mārire (Hau Hau) faith. One of their central tenets was to resist land confiscations, which was definitely an issue in Turanganui at that timeUnfortunately, Te Kooti got embroiled in the aftermath of the siege. He had sided with the Crown and Ngāti Porou in the siege but then was later accused of espionage by the local magistrate, Major Reginald Biggs. He was arrested and, along with about 100 prisoners from the siege, he was expelled to the Chatham Islands. Our very own 1860s. Among his concerns was that 30 acres of his land at Matawhero had been sold, and some Matawhero Māori had been complicit in the sale. Major Biggs was one of those who’d settled on the land

    Ka kite ano links below

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/history/the-history-i-wasnt-taught/

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/the-new-zealand-wars-and-the-school-curriculum/
32. Eco Maori 32

    5 May 2019 at 3:29 pm

    Kia pai to the first Maori Wahine to be ordained A Anglican Bishop Mana Wahine Kia kaha

    The Minister of Māori Development, Hon Nanaia Mahuta today congratulated Waitohiariki Quayle who has been elected as the new Māori Bishop for Te Hui Amorangi o Te Upoko o Te Ika.

    “Waitohiariki Quayle is the first Māori woman to be ordained as an Anglican Bishop and this is a significant milestone in the history of Aotearoa New Zealand.

    “This is a huge recognition for many years of her service in the Anglican Church and a positive signal for all Māori women who serve the church,” said Hon Nanaia Mahuta Ka kite ano link below

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1905/S00040/first-maori-woman-appointed-as-bishop.htm
33. Eco Maori 33

    5 May 2019 at 6:24 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    That's a lot of rockets being fired in the middle East Eco Maori backs peace not WAR.

    Planes landing in a AWA in America

    I have been harping on about sugar drinks to my children for decades.,, I, , surgery drinks are the worst culprit for the bad health effects they have on people . why because they are cheap so easy to get easily consumed drink heaps of sugar a sugar drink tax is a must to save tangata lives Ma te wa .

    Tailand will be happy they have crowned there King let's hope he is a King for the tangata.

    Ka kite ano
34. Eco Maori 34

    6 May 2019 at 8:40 am

    Kia ora The AM Show.

    That plane fire in Russia was dangerous big flames luckily that the whole plane did not blow up .

    The voters did not vote down a capital gains tax muppet it was dropped because a neanderthal cannot pull his head out of the Past.

    If you leave the weed laws like it is on the grounds that they will look the other way if you are snapped that will happen if you are white if you are brown they will use the law to put you DOWN that is a big concern of mine the amount of tangata that have been dragged into the unjustices system and come out a harder crim and a (charge) for leverage so the state can invaded your privacy or is that a bit hard for a neanderthal to work out.

    What a load of Bullshit that 90 day right to fire someone without putting the reason down on paper is a tool for the employers to fuck up the employees its a JOKE they can dream up any excuse for the dismissal and you can not defend yourself against the accusations/ lies HUMAN RIGHTS BREACH. No fair trials in your employment cases.

    Stronger unions are needed if we look at a business in NZ we will find that the cost of management has risen sharply in that the last 30 years that tells me that the wealthy are getting bigger slice of the pie at the expense of the poor common tangata and tamariki tangata working 3 jobs just to put food on the table .

    The next generation is not buying as many cars as the last . I totally agree that the youth listen to their pears more than any other person because of this phenomenon we must be vigilant on the big issues facing our Mokopuna some people use that phenomenon against te tangata tamariki being influenced by their pears they will believe them even if it's all LIES.

    My hardest task as a business owner employer was the state suppression ACT.

    All the hard labour jobs are worked by tangata whenua and Pacific tangata these jobs take a toll on your body one can only work there jobs for 20 years then the body starts to wear out these jobs are the ones that actually produce the products that makes the money while admin are having coffee?????? It should be the harder the physical job is the more money should be paid for the job. Ka kite ano
35. Eco Maori 35

    6 May 2019 at 10:26 am

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute .
36. Eco Maori 36

    6 May 2019 at 1:29 pm

    Whanau here's is proof that the system is stuffed with self-serving civil servent who serve their OWN needs even if their ACTIONS harm the public they are sold as the protectors of the public YEA RIGHT

    The question is, of course, Why? What, precisely, is the nature of the information which the Police are so determined to keep from public view?

    Could it be that the information upon which the Police were persuaded to launch their extraordinary investigation had been supplied to them by one or both of New Zealand’s two national security organisations: the Security Intelligence Service and/or the Government Communications Security Bureau?

    If so, then questions would have to be asked about the legal justification for placing journalists and bloggers under such surveillance. Had the requisite interception warrants been supplied – and on what grounds? That Hager and Bradbury were fierce critics of government policies? But, since when is political opposition grounds for spying on New Zealand citizens?

    The suspicion arises that in 2014-2015, in some unspecified, possibly unlawful, and highly secretive way, the country’s national security apparatus was working hand-in-glove with senior elements within the police to silence and punish a couple of outspoken critics of the National-led 2008-2017 Coalition Government Ka kite ano link below.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/04/05/unwilling-to-disclose/
37. Eco Maori 37

    6 May 2019 at 3:42 pm

    This is a good start to saving our Tangaroa and creatures

    The tangata of te Papatuanukue needs to behave like Guardian of Papatuanukue keep her in pristine condition for ALL OUR Mokopuna.

    The Action Plan for Healthy Oceans and Sustainable Blue Economies targets maritime welfare in the Asia-Pacific.

    ADB president Takehiko Nakao said it was part of a more, "resilient future, where humanity and oceans thrive together".

    Of the world's 10 rivers carrying the most plastic pollution to the ocean, the ADB said eight were in the region.

    Without immediate action, the ADB said about 90 percent of the region's coral reefs could be dead by 2050. Ka kite ano links below.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/388541/adb-launches-us5-billion-ocean-health-initiative

    P.S I hope this is the real deal to help save our Pacific cousin Tangaroa
38. Eco Maori 38

    6 May 2019 at 4:40 pm

    So. Much for the socially concerned tech billionaire putting humanity serviving before profits all Eco Maori can see from Microsoft move here is protecting there investment or protecting themselves from future liabilities. At the expense of the rest of the World society's. I told you to much money gives people a superiority COMPLEX who cares about anyone else.

    Microsoft joins group seeking to kill off historic climate change lawsuits

    Legal immunity would squash raft of climate lawsuits launched by cities and counties across the county.

    

    Microsoft has joined a conservative-led group that demands fossil fuel companies be granted legal immunity from attempts to claw back damages from the climate change they helped cause.

    The stated goals of the Climate Leadership Council (CLC) include a $40-a-ton fee on carbon dioxide emissions in return for the gutting of current climate change regulations and “protecting companies from federal and state tort liability for historic emissions

    Ka kite ano links below P.S Kia ora

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/01/microsoft-joins-group-seeking-to-avoid-climate-change-lawsuit
39. Eco Maori 39

    6 May 2019 at 5:12 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.
40. Eco Maori 40

    6 May 2019 at 6:31 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    Condolences to the people who lost loved ones on the plane that crashed in Russia.

    I'm not impressed with our justice systems and the mark lumber case just confirm Eco Maori consenrns if you are a big korie it serves you fine.

    The system has to be vigilant in the care and observation of OUR tamariki and pepe.

    Kia kaha Ka to all the tangata protesting about NZ high rate of lost people to suicide at the beehive in Wellington.

    That aid for national did the correct thing and took a article off national party website out of respect for Muslims after the christchurch desaster he gets pushed out because someone else put his foot in his mouth WTF.

    Ka kite ano
41. Eco Maori 41

    6 May 2019 at 6:55 pm

    Kia ora Te ao Maori News.

    Heaps of Maori are lost to suicide what a waste of life we lost 2 nephew in the last few years Kia kaha.

    The numbers of tangata sleeping under a bridge is just going to grow as the housing crisis kicks in, , I,, There is not enough house.

    I Tau toko the tangata who are protesting about whenua that fletcher construction company plans to build on they know the history of their whenua.

    Those people who wrecked that CEMETERY why wreck something for no good reason??????????.

    I think it's a must to have a through culture report on people in their probation period how else is a judge going to workout how to fairly treat the person .

    Kia ora Te ao Maori News sugary drink are a big threat to tangata health with all the bad side effects associated with sugar. Ka kite ano
42. Eco Maori 42

    7 May 2019 at 8:40 am

    Kia ora The AM Show.

    I like reading fables.

    Casey thanks for the years of Netball you have played for NZ all the best .

    Trees that count is a great tree planting organisation congratulations on Te Mokopuna e tama to ka pai.

    With Huawei most tech hardware comes from China because of this its laughable that's some are saying don't trust their 5G technology?????????????????????.

    I agree we will have a long good tradition trading with China

    When alcohol was made illegal to consume some people made heaps of money selling it on the Black market go figure .

    Extinction of OUR wild life is a very big issue facing humanity future we are there Guardians at the minute Alot of people are abusing this privilege .

    Ka kite ano

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