Open mike 02/11/2022

48 comments on “Open mike 02/11/2022 ”

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1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1

   2 November 2022 at 7:45 am

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/130215388/local-documentary-web-of-chaos-looks-at-the-internets-dark-side

   Was on TV 1 last night. (maybe get it OnDemand?) An Insightful and Informative NZ Doco about the Mis and Dis Information being channelled to.. and within NZ. Exposed Hater NZ well.

   IMO must see.
   • Adrian Thornton 1.1

     2 November 2022 at 8:43 am

     Are you serious,,,a TV1 documentary on the evils of dis-misinformation…..a must see, well maybe to better understand who your enemy is guess.

     MSM are the largest single disseminators of the most damaging mis- disinformation and neo-imperialist propaganda on the planet today…when was the last Western backed war or intervention that western MSM hasn’t backed up with straight out propaganda?..these blood thirsty pricks love wars.

     Western liberal MSM proved right out in the open that they were the most loyal and aggressive guard dogs of the neo-liberal status-quo when an actual Left Wing threat showed up in the form of Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders (on his first run)…they have proved beyond question again and again, that they will do anything necessary to defend this death cult neo-liberal capitalist status-quo…and when the biggest political leak in UK history happens and proves the media to be on the side of power and not the people, what happens?….well they just don't report on those leaks of course… must see, come on, get serious.

     Journalistic Representations of Jeremy Corbyn in the British Press
     From "Watchdog" to "Attackdog"
     https://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-communications/research/research-projects/representations-of-jeremy-corbyn

     Media 'persistently' biased against Jeremy Corbyn, academic study finds
     https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jeremy-corbyn-media-bias-labour-party-media-reform-coalition-birkbeck-a7163706.html

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DTMF0MSXng&t=2495s
     • Peter 1.1.1

       2 November 2022 at 10:22 am

       Any chance of you putting up a list of the dreaded 'MSM' for me? I'll then know which to absolutely avoid, never use in any way. Let it include newspapers as well as the broadcast media.

       A list of the 20 media outlets to definitely use would be good too. (Those who have a purity and honesty and altruism in everything they do.)
       • Adrian Thornton 1.1.1.1

         2 November 2022 at 12:03 pm

         My Pleasure…The Guardian, BBC, The Washington Post, NPR, RNZ etc ets…infact every Liberal MSM media source that I can think of, except maybe The Independent…are complicit in undermining and defaming every single serious Left Wing person or project around the world that even poses a minor threat the safe cosy Liberal world/ideology that they inhabit.

         The Right Wing press does what it does, so it is not worth focusing on them…but the way MSM Liberal media is employed to destroy progress Left Wing movements should be of serious concern to anyone who cares about the future of our children, families and the planet…for obvious reasons.

         I of course read MSM Right and Liberal..but with my bullshit detector turned up high….

         For new on the Ukraine I listen to Defense Politics Asia
         https://defensepoliticsasia.com/

         For current social and political unpacking I listen to Behind the News https://kpfa.org/program/behind-the-news/
         Against the Grain
         https://kpfa.org/program/against-the-grain/
         • Peter 1.1.1.1.1

           2 November 2022 at 1:53 pm

           All I wanted was a simple list. You provide a few names and then go on a bit of a rave.

           It appears you look at/listen to the same stuff we all do but you do it with your bullshit detector turned up high. Are you presuming others don't have bullshit detectors?

           I wonder about those who totally rubbish some media outlets yet still continuously indulge. A bit like someone averring they hate a food but keep on eating it. And telling us how bad it is.
           • Adrian Thornton 1.1.1.1.1.1

             2 November 2022 at 1:55 pm

             " Are you presuming others don't have bullshit detectors?"…don't you talk to people or read sections…or TS.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.2

       3 November 2022 at 8:01 am

       Adrian….I sometimes agree with what you say. But really ….everything is not "quite" as you black as you think. I Watch TV News and Docos. I read the Guardian, RNZ,Stuff,Newspapers, even lol the Herald .

       There is a lot of Good reporting..and Good Reporters. maybe focus on them?

       Anyway, hope all good and your Cycling etc going well.
2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2

   2 November 2022 at 8:00 am

   The presidential address may defuse protests by his supporters who have blocked highways in many states across Brazil, along with pro-Bolsonaro truckers calling for him to defy the electoral victory of leftist Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/477873/brazil-s-bolsonaro-to-accept-election-loss-in-speech-to-nation-minister

   On your bike Bolsonaro ( I realise he wont actually HAVE a Bike: )

   All the Best for a New Brazil !

   But yet again, right wing ..truckers.. attempting to use their rigs to damage Democracy. As Canada..NZ..etc etc.

   Jerks !
3. Adrian Thornton 3

   2 November 2022 at 8:10 am

   Why any serious progressive Leftie would still think that anything that this completely rogue Nation does militarily, is done with any kind of holistic or altruistic intent, would by now, have to be completely delusional….or mad…or both.

   US Deploys Nuclear-Capable B-52s to Australia
   https://consortiumnews.com/2022/10/31/military-madness-us-deployment-of-nuclear-capable-b-52s-to-australia/

   Interesting that we are told by the US backed Western world hegemony that Russia should have just ignored the build-up of a ultra-aggressive multi National military pact forming on their actual boarders…while at the very same time that same, that same the US backed western hegemony freaks out over a tiny island thousands of km’s from anywhere in the middle of the pacific making a alliance with China….
   • Sanctuary 3.1

     2 November 2022 at 8:28 am

     "…that Russia should have just ignored the build-up of a ultra-aggressive multi National military pact forming on their actual boarders…"

     NATO is a defensive alliance that has never attacked anyone.

     Australia isn't in NATO.

     The clue is in the title, NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty organisation.
     • Adrian Thornton 3.1.1

       2 November 2022 at 8:51 am

       To most of the worlds population it is understood to be exactly what its actions prove it is, a US led Western neo-imperialist hegemony…but you can call it what ever you like…from where you sit.
       • Sanctuary 3.1.1.1

         2 November 2022 at 9:57 am

         From where I sit I see only one country engaged in an unprovoked genocidal war of Imperial aggression and that is Russia.
         • Adrian Thornton 3.1.1.1.1

           2 November 2022 at 12:12 pm

           Yeah, from where you sit…enough said.
           • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.1.1.1

             2 November 2022 at 4:02 pm

             There is group out there now that labels persistent Putin dupes. It's called NAFO. The Kremlin is concerned.

             The longer form is here: "We are NAFO" – memes against war | TVP World – YouTube
             • weston …

               2 November 2022 at 8:15 pm

               Yep find someone with an alternative viewpoint an troll them hard ..all gd !!!

               Heres some more info about NAFO

               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iaJVTieFCU&t=517s
               • Stuart Munro …

                 2 November 2022 at 8:40 pm

                 The Grayzone is a far-left (sic) news website and blog founded and edited by American journalist Max Blumenthal. ,,, content is generally considered to be fringe. It is known for misleading reporting and sympathetic coverage of authoritarian regimes, in addition to it's denial of human rights abuses against Uyghurs. The Grayzone has published conspiracy theories as well as pro-Russian propaganda during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. ~ Wikipedia.

                 If we laugh at you, Weston, it is that we may not weep.
                 • weston …

                   2 November 2022 at 10:47 pm

                   "Known for " doesnt prove a thing stuart produce some actual facts which the greyzone have misrepresented go ahead .

                   That some journalists dont agree with other journalists whether its about the Uyghurs or any other topic is not something to be scared of stuart they just have a different viewpoint that might be worth discussing .

                   Its all too easy to dismiss other opinions by smearing them with the very hackneyed term 'conspiracy theories ' You do know dont you stuart that its not just the ' evil russians ' that do propaganda ??
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     3 November 2022 at 5:38 am

                     Yes, I know all about smearing, I've been smeared incessantly by Putin dupes like you over the last five years or so.

                     I have contacts in Russia, and some knowledge of its history. The positions you routinely take: that Putin is fine when he is a murderous despot, that NATO is to blame when it is Moscow's geopolitical ambitions that caused their invasions, and that MSM are risible when you swallow untenable propaganda without a moment's thought make your pretensions to objectivity one of the sickest jokes on the internet.

                     Perhaps the biggest joke though, is that you pretend to be of the Left, when you are merely a fascist fanboi. You should be ashamed of yourself – I'm ashamed of you.
     • Bryan Dods 3.1.2

       2 November 2022 at 11:20 am

       "The clue is in the title, NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty organisation"

       I was surprised to see that Mongolia is listed as a global partner in NATO. It doesn't even border a country that borders a country that borders the Atlantic.
     • Tony 3.1.3

       2 November 2022 at 1:41 pm

       The sanctimonious sanctuary is again telling LIES. NATO is a defensive organisation that has never attacked anyone .. except Libya, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Bosnia. Maybe you should take a month off spewing lies and do some actual research you peddler of disinformation.
     • Tony 3.1.4

       2 November 2022 at 1:48 pm

       NATO is a defensive alliance that has never attacked anyone .. except Bosnia, Libya, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia.
       • SPC 3.1.4.1

         2 November 2022 at 4:09 pm

         As the USSR broke up into constituent republics, so did Yugoslavia. Initially there was a Yugoslavian peoples army effort to maintain unity, but this soon lost non Serb soldiers when it became apparent it was in reality a greater Serbia project by seizing parts of Croatia and Bosnia (not like Russia in Ukraine*).

         The UN and NATO started nothing. They (GHWB at his worst) were simply inept – there should have been plebescites (a peaceful methodology) to determine borders (internal borders are not always in sync with nationalist ethnic ones*).

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars

         It was the US and UK who deposed the Taleban regime for not handing over the Al Qaeda leader after 9/11. NATO was engaged in Afghanistan in Dec 2001 as part of the ISAF established by the UNSC to help assist the Karzai administration provide basic security.

         The UN authorised a no fly zone in Libya (to end air attacks in civilian areas and ensure peace talks) – but NATO went beyond its mandate and attacked Libyan government ground forces. Because of this, no such mandate was ever enabled in Syria (and so Russians bombed the civilian areas to keep the government in power).

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Libyan_Civil_War
   • Sanctuary 3.2

     2 November 2022 at 11:23 am

     Australia is the 12th biggest economy in the world. The trans-tasman countries collectively would be the tenth biggest economic block in the world. Based on GDP per head Singapore, the USA, Australia and New Zealand are first, second, third and fourth richest countries in Asia-Pacific. And they are all on the same side.

     The Australian mainland also suffered heavy attacks from Japan in WW2 and they had to fight a desperate land battle on their own door step in New Guinea.

     The point is, Australia has massive amounts of natural resources, in incredibly rich, and at 25 million plus people has a big enough population to be major middle power, and is clearly a regional great power. That plus their experience in WW2 means they see security through a different lens to us.

     You and I might shake our heads at how tighly aligned the Aussies are with the USA, but it has obvious military advantages for Canberra. The military alliance between Australia and the United States is as close as it could be. The United States would not even consider selling its most advanced nuclear submarines to anyone else (and I include the UK and Japan in that.

     Personally, I am not sure what Australia's end game is, beyond aggressively containing China without necessarily thinking through the consequences to Australia of major regional war with China.
     • aj 3.2.1

       2 November 2022 at 9:49 pm

       Arnuad Betrand offers interesting commentary on geopolitics, here a summary of a recent interview with George Yeo.

       George Yeo, one of the most consummate statesmen in Asia (Singapore Cabinet member for 21 years!) is always a mandatory listen.
       Here he explains the worrying dynamic between the US and China. He has by far the best understanding I've come across.

       https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1584132133488300033.html

       Full interview, 23:12mins

       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEQ-a6sgjvc&t=7s
4. Sanctuary 4

   2 November 2022 at 8:26 am

   Just thinking about Jacinda's recent trip to the ice.

   According to what I have read there is at least 50 billion barrels of oil in the Ross sea. At current prices, that would be nine trillion NZ dollars worth of oil, and you could probably double that for gas. Eighteen trillion NZ dollars worth of oil and gas.

   That would turn five million NZer's into the wealthiest people on earth, richer even that Arab potentates because in addition to having whatever we want – bike path over the harbour bridge? High speed rail from Auckland to Christchurch? Fully equipped 300 bed hospital in every provincial city? Free university for all? No taxes at all? Sovereign wealth fund to be forever rich? Predator free NZ? Sure! – we also don't live in a overheated sandy desert like the Arabs do.

   Persuade me we wouldn't all cause a stampede to the polls to vote for the drill, baby drill party if we found fifty billion barrels of oil, that we wouldn't be "persuaded" to drill by the USA and/or China even if we did decide not to drill by ourselves, and that we wouldn't fight all comers and to hell with any treaties to guard the precious stuff.
   • Bearded Git 4.1

     2 November 2022 at 8:55 am

     Sanc-links to 50 billion barrels claim please.
     • Sanctuary 4.1.1

       2 November 2022 at 9:55 am

       It has been discussed for many years

       Here

       Here (Sky is the limit for this guy)

       or

       Here (Quite an old report)

       and

       Here
       • Bearded Git 4.1.1.1

         2 November 2022 at 11:33 am

         Thanks Sanc. And these appear the be proven reserves.

         "…proven oil reserves today are closer to 47 billion barrels."

         https://dialogo-americas.com/articles/the-future-of-the-coldest-windiest-driest-highest-place-on-earth-the-antarctic-treaty/#.Y2GdP3ZBy3A

         Let's hope solar continues to get cheaper and cheaper such that it will never make sense to exploit this for profit.

         (Of course in terms of CC it already makes no sense, but that wouldn't stop people like Trump or Bolsonaro et al)
   • roy cartland 4.2

     2 November 2022 at 9:24 am

     I suppose you're right that some will be suckered into that idea but it’s getting very boring to argue against yet again.

     The taxes i.e. costs on that nine trillion?

     Obviously the environmental cost which would make the money so worthless that once again, the powerful would hog the bulk of it to protect their own property as the world melts.

     Then the actual monetary taxes on the pollution through "offsetting" and whatever other bogus scheme governments dream up.

     And of course the military costs in protecting ourselves against those who would now declare us to be WMD hoarders or some other bullshit; not just costs in mil hardware, but bribes, "deals" and other expenses to be able to sell at a price that more powerful nations deem acceptable.

     The very idea that we'd simply be permitted to get away with it is absurd. But of course your point is that you don't have to convince everyone, just a rabid few. Hope you're wrong on that number being a "stampede".
   • alwyn 4.3

     2 November 2022 at 12:33 pm

     From memory I thought the Antarctic Treaty banned all mineral production in the Antarctic.

     Are you planning on ignoring that minor little road-block?

     https://polarconnection.org/banning-hydrocarbon-extraction-antarctica/#:~:text=The%20short%20answer%20to%20this,when%20that%20Protocol%20turns%2050.
5. Sanctuary 5

   2 November 2022 at 9:47 am

   "… Hope you're wrong on that number being a "stampede"…"

   Greens: "We must leave the oil in the ground to save the planet"

   Labour: "We'll responsbily drill and drip feed it to the world over 100 years"

   National/ACT: "Bonanza! No taxes! $50k a year free to everyone for 100 years! Vote for us for free money!"

   Who is going to win that election I wonder…
   • KJT 5.1

     2 November 2022 at 10:40 am

     I think a lot of people will realise that, given the past history, sweet fuck all of any oil money will come to any of us, or any wealth funds.

     It will all accrue to oil companies and Nationals "investee" cronies.
     • Gosman 5.1.1

       2 November 2022 at 11:10 am

       The harm is not in extracting the oil/gas. It is what happens to it when it is used. If the environmental impact of that is reduced sufficiently then there is no reason why we should restrict extracting it.
       • Patricia Bremner 5.1.1.1

         2 November 2022 at 11:17 am

         Gosman "If???"
         • Gosman 5.1.1.1.1

           2 November 2022 at 11:26 am

           What do you find problematic with that statement? If there was little AGW impact from use of fossil fuels and other harmful environmental impacts were managed so as not to have major effects why would you restrict fossil fuel extraction? It would be like restricting living because of potential negative environmental impacts.
           • weka 5.1.1.1.1.1

             2 November 2022 at 11:40 am

             it's a pigs might fly statement. At some point in the future, humans may find a way to burn fossil fuels without emitting GHGs. We're not even on the same planet as that idea currently, so I can't see the use of the idea in this conversation.
             • Gosman …

               2 November 2022 at 11:46 am

               There is plenty of usage of hydrocarbons beyond burning it. It forms the basis of many of the products we use. You are likely using some right now in this communication with me.
               • weka …

                 2 November 2022 at 1:15 pm

                 What usages are you thinking of that don't release GHGs into the atmosphere?
       • Incognito 5.1.1.2

         2 November 2022 at 6:21 pm

         I see, no harm in storing or transporting it either? Nothing ever goes wrong with tankers, storage tanks, pipelines, et cetera? You’re smoking too much of your own dope.
     • Herodotus 5.1.2

       2 November 2022 at 2:33 pm

       Do you mean the SAME cronies that Labour supports and NO one here will admit !!! Remember the PROMISED in 2017. I suppose once you tell 1 lie it becomes so much easier foe the next lie to tell eh PM !!!. It is difficult – Now open your eyes but that would mean some to admit that this Labour Govt is no different to any other govt.,

       "Then came the Speech from the Throne in November 2017 that said “there will be no new mines on conservation land”

       https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/no-new-mines-on-conservation-land-petitioners-demand-action-now-after-government-delivers-excuse-after-excuse.html

       https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/07-08-2020/we-were-promised-no-more-mines-on-doc-land-and-we-were-betrayed
6. SPC 6

   2 November 2022 at 3:25 pm

   Musk invested in Twitter to make money.

   If 100 million of the tweeters (c200-400m of them) pay $8 a month – US$100 a year, that is a nice $10Bpa. He may not care much about PC advertisers if enough GOP/right wingers sign up.

   So who will be the ones seeking a venue without PC rules/without hate …

   Electric cars – the carbon credits.
   Social media free speech – making money from the Trump rabble.
   • SPC 6.1

     2 November 2022 at 4:26 pm

     Elon Musk has said Twitter will charge $8 (£7) monthly to Twitter users who want a blue tick by their name indicating a verified account.

     As part of changes after a $44bn (£38bn) takeover of the social media site, Mr Musk said it was "essential to defeat spam/scam" reduce Twitter's reliance on advertising.

     Mr Musk, the world's richest person, added that paid users would have priority in replies and searches, and half as many advertisements.

     He is posing it as an egalitarian system

     "Power to the people! Blue for $8/month," the billionaire said on Twitter, criticising the old method of blue tick verification as a "lords and peasants system".

     Misrepresenting how the current system evolved

     Twitter's former method of verifying users for a blue tick included a short online application form, and was reserved for those whose identities were targets for impersonation, such as celebrities, politicians and journalists.

     The company introduced the system in 2009, after it faced a lawsuit accusing it of not doing enough to prevent imposter accounts.

     Follow the money. Trickle up, the elite making money out of IT, and hardly any of the CG is taxed.

     https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63478854

     Nothing of the like since Trump collected millions from his loyal followers to challenge the election result in court and placed the money in his personal PAC.
   • SPC 6.2

     2 November 2022 at 6:43 pm

     Chairman

     @WSBChairman

     Elon Musk just announced that you can purchase a blue checkmark on Twitter for $8. The woke journalists are throwing a tantrum because they can no longer act superior to us peasants.

     Brett Winton

     @wintonARK

     Lords who have been knighted by the twitter verification wand are upset that the proles will be able to buy status.

     And the target audience buys into it.
   • Sacha 6.3

     2 November 2022 at 9:54 pm

     Musk invested in Twitter to make money.

     Hilarious.
7. Jack 7

   2 November 2022 at 4:47 pm

   How many other labour candidates don’t actually believe in Labour Party policy anymore?

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300728543/labour-hamilton-west-candidate-seen-at-ambush-protest-against-own-minister
   • Louis 7.1

     2 November 2022 at 10:37 pm

     Where did it say in the article that Labour candidate Georgie Dansey doesn't believe in Labour party policy?
8. SPC 8

   2 November 2022 at 5:07 pm

   Netanyahu and right wing allies seem set for 61-62 seats (120 seat Knesset) after a deal with Religious Zionism (an extremism now unleashed by BN favour). And they go to being the third largest party.

   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63459824

   Stuff just got real.

   https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/10/30/religious-zionism-israel-far-right-different/
   • joe90 8.1

     2 November 2022 at 6:09 pm

     Netanyahu's doing his best to delegitimise Arab votes.

     Central Elections Committee head Orly Adas says incidents were not dramatic and dealt with, as Likud leader tries to cast doubt on ballots cast for Arab parties

     The head of the Central Elections Committee said early Wednesday morning that election voting had gone smoothly, after Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu made unfounded accusations of “fake” votes.

     Orly Adas, director-general of the Central Elections Committee, said irregularities were isolated and minor at some of the 12,000 voting stations nationwide as Israel held its fifth election in under four years.

     “There were a number of incidents throughout election day but they weren’t dramatic and were taken care of,” she said.

     […]

     Netanyahu and his Likud party have repeatedly alleged voter irregularities at certain polling stations in Arab communities without providing evidence to back it up.

     “Likud warns of a wide-scale effort to violently forge the election results,” the party said in a statement Tuesday after polls closed. It alleged that right-wing poll watchers were subject to violence and threats once exit polls showed that “results of the election hinged on the results for Balad.”

     The Arab party Balad is hovering near the electoral threshold needed to win Knesset representation. If the party makes it into the Knesset, it could tip the scale back toward a split between the pro- and anti-Netanyahu blocs.

     Netanyahu also repeated an unfounded accusation of voter irregularities at certain polling stations in Arab communities, saying that he was waiting for the “real count, not the fake count that somebody is trying to subvert by violence or intimidation.”

     https://www.timesofisrael.com/election-czar-rebuffs-netanyahu-allegations-of-arab-fraud-says-vote-went-smoothly/

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