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Open mike 03/02/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 3rd, 2022 - 169 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step up to the mike …

169 comments on “Open mike 03/02/2022 ”

  1. Dennis Frank 1

    I wonder if we're on the edge of a new victorianism. The permissive society has been exploring the depths of degradation for long enough, I suspect.

    Recently, she counselled a man who had been choking his girlfriend during sex for years. It was only when the girlfriend mustered the courage to say she didn’t like it that he admitted he didn’t like it, either. They were both, it turned out, going along with what they thought the other one wanted, and each secretly wishing the other would make it stop.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/feb/02/it-stopped-me-having-sex-for-a-year-why-generation-z-is-turning-its-back-on-sex-positive-feminism

    When a culture turns toxic, humanity tends to generate a counter-culture. Hegel's dialectic. Sad to see folk in younger generations being unable to relate to each other with humanity. But I get that there's an exploration happening.

    Perhaps with a focus on how natural morality emerges from learning about downsides? That's the best gloss I can put on the situation…

    • Treetop 1.1

      Sad to see folk in younger generations being unable to relate to each other with humanity.

      Unless people can communicate and are able to discuss an issue, nothing changes.

    • Gypsy 1.2

      We've been on a slippery slope of subjective morality and truth for a long time now. Society is simply reflecting that.

    • weka 1.3

      the place where this is really being challenged is gender critical feminism in the UK.

      The movement championed the right to enjoy sex and was supposed to free women from guilt or being shamed. But now many are questioning whether it has left them more vulnerable

      This could easily have been written about the sexual revolution in the 60s. Looks like we didn't learn much. My current view on it is that we are just culturally really bad with binary thinking, and we're getting worse. Sex positive was a good movement. When it started having problematic aspects, the people, largely women, who tried to point it out, were told they were prudes, that kink shaming is wrong, and that people should be free to do what they like. Thanks neoliberalism. But liberals basically took the position that sex positive = good, any objection to it = bad. Which is just fucking dangerous at this point in history.

      One of the reasons GCF has upped the ante is because GC lesbians have been excluded from Pride marches while men wearing nappies as a kink have been in the side tent with kids, or men in dog fetish costumes are at family events and the kids think they're play. Or rainbow butt dildo monkey at a kids show at a library was thought to be appropriate by council. Or gender identity activists took No Debate to the extreme so that it's been difficult to talk about the connections between the MAP movement (minor attracted people) and the queer movements. Lots of safeguarding issues there for women and kids.

      Lots more examples. And still women are called prudes. (and lots of people reading this won't really know what I am talking about, because No Debate means it's a battle largely being fought on GC/TRA twitter)

      (and no, I didn't just call gay people paedophiles, and if you think this is what this is about then you're way behind the curve. Viva la nuance).

      • Molly 1.3.1

        This photo might give context to what you are saying:

        Sorry, weka. Don't know how to post.

        • weka 1.3.1.1

          jfc.

          • weka 1.3.1.2.1

            there's a whole post in that, and I'm away out the door. If you know the source Molly, please post (as in where and when it was taken).

            To be clear, this is two police having their photo taken with two people engaging publicly in their sexual fetish.

            • Molly 1.3.1.2.1.1

              Sorry, weka. IIRC it was a UK Pride event, which seems likely in terms of context. I googled images "uk police dog fetish" and it was the first image.

              Adding pride parade comes up with similar images but not this particular one, but to be fair I got bored after the first few, and it seem reasonable that the image links to a Pride event, in line with my memory of the original article.

              Given the censure dished out to lesbians both here and in the UK, and the burgeoning inclusion of kink and BDSM as components of the march, it is not the Pride march that originated in the 80's, in support of same sex orientation.

              Homosexuality seems to have had a shortlived acceptance in society, given that Stonewall's CEO considers homosexuals confirming their same sex preferences are akin to 'sexual racism', and promotes a newly minted form of sexual coercion and gay conversion:

              "However, in a statement, chief executive Nancy Kelley likened not wanting to date trans people to not wanting to date people of colour, fat people, or disabled people.

              She said: "Sexuality is personal and something which is unique to each of us. There is no 'right' way to be a lesbian, and only we can know who we're attracted to.

              "Nobody should ever be pressured into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions."BBC, UK.

              • weka

                thanks Molly. I briefly toyed with doing a post on it 😬

                The SW CEO is disingenous af. Lesbians don't object to dating trans people, they object males. If the trans person isn't biologically male, then there's not a problem (although I can also understand some people not being attracted to people with a lot of body modification)

                • Sabine

                  It is two fold, a. the dislike of penis and b. the difference between women and men in general. I have a few lesbians in my immediate family, non would date a Man or a Transwomen. They are not women. They are men presenting as women and that is a huge difference. And those that want to make the difference between man and women a purely visual thing are doing no one any favors. Men are not women, will never be women, there is more to us then a pair of fake boobs and a neo vagina made from an inverted penis.
                  And the heterosexual man who present as women as part of their fetish will not have their penises removed for a fake vagina, and i would venture a guess that these are the ones that are causing grief to Lesbians.

                  • weka

                    Would the lesbians you know date medically or surgically transitioned trans men?

                    • Sabine

                      No, but this is due mainly due as you called is ' their body modification'. And frankly once you have your vagina removed for a arm / leg roll penis, i think it is understandable. Also the issue with these women not wanting to be women. They are however sad about the disappearance about specifically butch lesbians.
                      Also it appears that quite a few of the transwomen are full of internalised misogyny and that is not attractive.

    • James 2 1.4

      By "culture", you mean third-wave feminism, post-modernism, identity politics, and social justice. All products firmly of the Left.

      The Standard is a board of pretend-old time Leftists looking for any reason to refuse any responsibility or criticism on the current state of affairs and how it has overwhelmingly been the Left, and recent Left, responsibility for this state.

      Blame late-stage Capitalism and neo-liberalism? Sure, course you will – anything but your own beliefs and ideologies. Even this Guardian article seems to blame the current state and consequence of Feminism on men. I wonder what can't be blamed on men.

      The Left won the culture wars and everything you see, and complain here, is the logical conclusion of the very beliefs you supported. Anyone vaguely non 'anything goes' is simply a fascist who wants to return everything to the 1950s.

      I say this is as an old school Liberal, not a Fox-loving Rightie. I can see the Right's problems, but the Left's inability to recognise its own responsibility and reform is beyond pathetic.

      All the Left seems to offer now is enforced groupthink, eternal health controls, mental damage to young people, and guilt.

      • Dennis Frank 1.4.1

        By "culture", you mean third-wave feminism, post-modernism, identity politics, and social justice. All products firmly of the Left.

        Wrong. I meant it as a whole. The permissive society emerged in the 1960s and became pervasive throughout western civilisation in the 1970s.

        The Standard is a board of pretend-old time Leftists looking for any reason to refuse any responsibility or criticism on the current state of affairs and how it has overwhelmingly been the Left, and recent Left, responsibility for this state.

        Dunno if TS has a board. I agree that leftists have an unhealthy tendency to evade responsibility for their collective beliefs but since most of them here spend most of the time disagreeing with each other I doubt you can generalise accurately. Anyway I've been commenting here for 7 years as a non-leftist so don't blame me.

        Blame late-stage Capitalism and neo-liberalism? Sure, course you will – anything but your own beliefs and ideologies.

        Having spent the past half-century as a resolute outspoken opponent of capitalism I'm sympathetic to the possibility but averse to such simplemindedness. I agree with freedom of choice & opinion – have always been staunch supporter of freedom of speech too. But I do believe in taking responsibility for one's ethical standards & moral conduct. I'm too much of a nonconformist for my beliefs & ideologies to fit into your preconceptions! angel

        Even this Guardian article seems to blame the current state and consequence of Feminism on men. I wonder what can't be blamed on men.

        I didn't get that from it. Think you're reading too much into it.

        The Left won the culture wars and everything you see, and complain here, is the logical conclusion of the very beliefs you supported. Anyone vaguely non 'anything goes' is simply a fascist who wants to return everything to the 1950s.

        Did they? I'm not convinced. And since I've been disagreeing with both the political left & political right since 1971 it seems like you're mistaking me for someone else. Have you noticed that a third of the public are neither left nor right? Polls provided the evidence of that in the mid-1980s in the USA so no surprise the Green movement got leverage on the same basis.

        I say this is as an old school Liberal

        Are you aware liberals are seen as leftists by conservatives? And as rightists by radicals? That was true half a century back. Nothing's changed since, right?

        the Left's inability to recognise its own responsibility and reform is beyond pathetic

        Likely you're right about this – I've often felt the same & have commented here similarly often enough. My point was primarily their evasion of the necessity to define their political common cause. Instead they default into some kind of banal recycling of inappropriate shibboleths from the past (when pushed) or take refuge in the assumption that everyone knows what being leftist means. Delusional!

        All the Left seems to offer now is enforced groupthink, eternal health controls, mental damage to young people, and guilt.

        They also offer hope of a better world to come. Sometimes they deliver a wee bit of progress on the path to that future. They ain't totally useless…

  2. Dennis Frank 2

    The triad USA/China/Russia is the current basis of multipolar geopolitics. I suspect that triangulation by each of the three will underlie their relations this year.

    In a December video-call with Putin, Xi called for China and Russia "to step up coordination and collaboration in international affairs" and to reject "hegemonic acts and the Cold War mentality."

    When Chinese President Xi Jinping welcomes leaders from around the world for the Opening Ceremony of the Beijing Olympics on Friday, it will be his first time meeting foreign counterparts face-to-face in more than 400 days. And at the top of his guest list is Russia's Vladimir Putin.

    A summit between the two leaders, expected to take place on the day of the Opening Ceremony, comes at a pivotal moment for both sides…

    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/02/asia/china-russia-olympics-opening-ceremony-meeting-ukraine-intl-hnk-mic/index.html

    Agreement on strategy for stalling USA hegemony is likely to be the top item on their agenda and of course it's unlikely to be declared to the media if it happens.

    • Jenny how to get there 2.1

      There is no good side in this dispute.

      All empires are racist and hegemonic by nature. Rival empires are dangerous to the peoples of the world.

      In the 20th Century the rising powers of Japan, Germany and Italy, coming late to the imperial division of the world, were challenging the established imperial division of the world by the hegemonic powers of Britain, France and the US were the root cause of two world wars.

      The two new rising powers of the Russian Federation and China are the new challengers of the US the remaining dominant world hegemon.

      The root cause of imperialism is the growth economy.

      Not only is the growth economy running up against the finite limits of the planet, the growth economies of rival powers are running up against each other.

      There can not be infinite growth on a finite world.

      • Ad 2.1.1

        Thank God they don't let you anywhere near a classroom.

        • Koff 2.1.1.1

          You can't teach what you want in a classroom, even if it is factually correct! All dependent on the curriculum, especially in high school. I once taught Biology in a high school in Darwin. I had a colleague who was a fundamentalist Christian who didn't believe in evolution. He still had to teach it as part of the Biology curriculum, although I would have loved to be a fly on the wall of his Bio classes. Ironically, the city of Darwin was named after the architect of evolution, a man who was troubled by the contradictions between his discoveries and his faith. Despite all that, I agree with Jenny!

          • Ad 2.1.1.1.1

            Jenny wants to do Pedagogy of the Oppressed but I don't think they've instructed Paulo Freire in teachers colleges since the 1980s.

            If as a teacher I wanted to get into this areas with less ideological risk, I'd just give the students a list of relevant films, and a short bibilography of further reading. Stage 1 Sociology will usually introduce them to Hobsbawm and the like.

            • Heather Grimwood 2.1.1.1.1.1

              to Ad at 2.1.1.1.1…….Paulo Friere was well ahead of his time. I valued his book immensely from publication and am now prompted to research his life thereafter.

        • higherstandard 2.1.1.2

          On the contrary Jenny's missive would be great for a debate in a final year history class with the students having to argue and present evidence both for and against the proposition.

      • Byd0nz 2.1.2

        Excellent comment, Jenny, full of truth of the matter. A World united system based on a World without money will be the answer at some future point when the Realisationilist Movement evolves.

        • Ad 2.1.2.1

          Long live the Realisationilists!

          • Dennis Frank 2.1.2.1.1

            They can't live long if they don't exist. I googled Realisationilist Movement and got precisely zero websites describing it. First time I've ever seen Google totally baffled! Of course there remains the technical possibility that the movement is using a camouflage strategy to fly under Google's radar…

      • Heather Grimwood 2.1.3

        Your last sentence Jenny should become universal daily mantra, so obvious,understandable and succinct.

        I continue my day smiling at it.

        • Dennis Frank 2.1.3.1

          Really? Are you aware that Jenny's last sentence went global back in the 1990s? Good on her for recycling it in a culture that persists in denial but I was wondering if you thought she invented that point.

          • Heather Grimwood 2.1.3.1.1

            to Dennis at 2.1.3.1 : I find your comment strange. I have long had such a position as the phrase expresses.

            Raised in a home and culture closely connected with the forming of the first Labour government and it's values of social security and later having Ken McIlroy and Dudley Kelly late Values Party leader as high school teachers and friends who treated us as adults, I realise such phrases are not new. I just find myself uplifted to find this one projected into these 'me…me…me' times.

            • Dennis Frank 2.1.3.1.1.1

              Oh I see. No worries – I agree totally with that sentiment. Since her sentence is effectively one strand of the basic ideology of the Green movement, I guess the necessity to keep stressing it testifies to the relative lack of influence that ideology has in mass consciousness nowadays.

        • alwyn 2.1.3.2

          Don't worry to much about it. After all it would take an infinite time to get infinite growth and the world doesn't have that long to go.

          It will end up with all the plant and animal life being killed, all the oceans evaporating and the surface of the earth melting. We aren't going to be responsible for that and there is nothing we can do about it.

          However it won't be in an infinite time and we certainly won't get to infinite growth.

      • Sanctuary 2.1.4

        And to think, I spent three years on my history degree.

        • Dennis Frank 2.1.4.1

          Nothing wrong with being brainwashed by the establishment. Most of us were. The challenge then becomes one of transcending those beliefs. Those who did so in the 1970s drove the change to a better world but didn't get sufficient critical mass. Those born during the 1950s mostly took refuge in a collective cop-out, bring us Thatcherism & Rogernomics instead in their (im)maturity.

    • Jenny how to get there 2.2

      New Zealand schools are to teach the history of colonialism in this country.

      Colonialism is a symptom and expression of capitalist imperialist expansion..

      Will our education system teach the history of capitalist imperialism?

      I doubt it, because this would raise demands from our young people to make a final break with our current imperial partners.

      Open mike 30/01/2022

      • Blazer 2.2.1

        'Will our education system teach the history of capitalist imperialism?

        and will our education system teach the history of private banks,money creation,the debt 'put'and compounding interest'.

        These are the fabric of 'our way of…life'!

      • Gypsy 2.2.2

        What about communist imperialism? Or socialist imperialism? Or Islamic imperialism? I mean seriously at what level of bad shit do you want to draw a line?

        • Blazer 2.2.2.1

          What recent examples of those can you…provide?

          • Dennis Frank 2.2.2.1.1

            Interesting point there Blazer. Recent examples seem hard to find. Perhaps China's capture of Tibet 60 years ago is the most recent.

              • Subliminal

                You're joking surely gypsy. Comparing infrastructure building with dropping bombs??

                • Gypsy

                  That 'infrastructure building' is the 21st century version of imperialism.

                  "colonialism with Chinese characteristics".

                  • Subliminal

                    Oh right. "Colonialism" like Guyon Espiners scary music RNZ China investigation where Haami Piripi got funding to build internet infrastructure at "too favourable" loan conditions and when debt repayment became stressed negotiated even more favourable terms with never a hint of taking posession of said infrastructure. That kind of "colonialism"? Where local people get real help to build capability? Do you realise that that actually is a definition of something else?

                    • Gypsy

                      Imperialism, noun, a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means.

                    • Subliminal []

                      Pretty sure theres no large population of Chinese that moved into the far north with that infrastructure loan….

                    • Gypsy

                      "Pretty sure theres no large population of Chinese that moved into the far north with that infrastructure loan…."
                      Your definition of imperialism is so 20th century.

                    • Subliminal []

                      That was using your definition of imperialism and quickly consulting wikipaedia to define your bolded colonization. So, given its not colonization that leaves the category of "other means" for this type of imperialism. And just like with Guyon, we need to inject a lot of scary emotional "feel" to generate some level of acceptance for the huge military confrontation that the west is engaging in, in response to an imperialism (if in deed that is what it is) that is neither militaristic nor colonial but some form of other that seems to offer a path to a better standard of living to those that have been subjected to western imperialism that was and is both militaristic and colonial.

                    • Gypsy

                      "but some form of other that seems to offer a path to a better standard of living to those that have been subjected to western imperialism that was and is both militaristic and colonial."
                      Do you assert that colonisation and imperialism never resulted in a better standard of living for those colonised?

              • Dennis Frank

                Hmm.

                China’s top-ranking diplomat Yang Jiechi has repeatedly assured the world that his country’s supreme foreign policy project, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), “does not play little geopolitical games”

                They only play big ones? Fair to say BRI seems a design for regional influence-building. Ramping it up is always possible…

          • Gypsy 2.2.2.1.2

            We're talking about history, so I'm not sure we should only consider 'recent' examples. But since you asked.

  3. Dennis Frank 3

    There's a good in-depth review of the latest revision of Aotearoa's history here: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/readingroom/waitangi-week-the-pakeha-wars

    Annabel Cooper writes on New Zealand cultural history, including on histories and screen stories about the New Zealand Wars. Her book Filming the Colonial Past: The New Zealand Wars on Screen was published in 2018.

    Dr Vincent O'Malley is the current go-to historian of the New Zealand Wars, as the author of a major history of the Waikato War and a general history of the Wars. His new volume, Voices from the New Zealand Wars, consists mostly of first-person narratives in which the conflicts of our past are told by many people who were there at the time.

    It's not the first book to tell these wars from first-person accounts – James Cowan's official history, published in the 1920s, remarkably prioritised oral testimonies from all sides – but this is a volume for our time and a welcome path into more historically-informed understandings of the past.

    Documents include Renata Kawepo's stinging rebuke to Hawke's Bay provincial superintendent Thomas Fitzgerald, calling him out for altering his speech given at Kohimarama before sending it for publication.

    Drawing on the skills of both oral and literate cultures, Kawepo lists the discrepancies between Fitzgerald's spoken and written versions and goes on to eviscerate government duplicity in its proceedings especially with regard to land.

    A similar condemnation appears in the compelling 1867 petition of the self-described 'Government Natives' to the Crown, asking for remediation after the Native Land Court sat in Tūranga and demanded the ceding of their best land, although they had not fought against the Crown. Captain Biggs who had harassed them to give up their land wanted "to get all the level country, and we might perch ourselves on the mountains".

    Two pieces relating to the aftermath of the war in the Waikato, by Aterea Puna and Henry Sewell, both centre on the government's not-so-subtle land-taking agenda. Sewell rails against the 19th-century fake news perpetrated by George Grey when he invented a 'plot to attack the settlers' to justify the invasion of Waikato.

    For a precursor to Facebook's capacity to assign false quotations, take words out of context, and manipulate communications, students of political sculduggery will find here, as Sewell comments, 'a sample of the way men's minds are inflamed'.

    Propaganda to serve the interests of the ruling class is perennial. It gets traction due to a part of human nature. Reality is often unascertainable in details. People have a natural tendency to recognise patterns, yet joining the dots is subjective. Consequently competing narratives emerge in the body politic.

  4. arkie 4

    What some have be saying about the reliance of the business community on new migrants turns out to have some empirical evidence:

    The report from Diversity Works New Zealand, showed migrants from Canada, the United States, South Africa, the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe, all earned a higher average hourly wage than migrants from Asia, the rest of the Americas and much of the Pacific Islands.

    Diversity Works chief executive Maretha Smit said even when the data was adjusted to compare migrants with similar levels of skills, English language ability, time spent in New Zealand and age, those born in places like Asia and South America earned significantly lower.

    "In 2018, engineering professionals from the UK, South Africa, and Northern America all earned an average wage above $45 an hour. In contrast, engineering professionals from India, China, and Polynesia all had hourly wages below $40," she said.

    The report also said employers needed to develop processes that ensured equitable and fair employment for all.

    It said pay transparency was very successful in addressing wage gaps.

    Smit said jobs advertised should have salaries or pay bands included in the adverts.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/460781/research-reveals-stark-differences-in-salaries-for-migrant-workers

    Pay transparency is a good idea, not as widely or as accurately used as it should be. What other steps can be taken to ensure more workers are able to successfully argue for equitable and fair incomes?

    • Blazer 4.1

      The lesser paid vocations are another story.

      Strictly anecdotal evidence says some Filipino workers are happy to work 16-17 hours a day if available.

      A market gardener told me their Asian workers productivity, just picking fruit and vegetables was at least double that of other workers.

      • gsays 4.1.1

        "at least double that of other workers."

        American Factory is a doco about an auto glass factory in Dayton, Ohio.

        It is closed by GM then purchased by a Chinese company, re-employed a lot of the locals as well as some Chinese workers and managers.

        Starts airily and brightly enough, after the honeymoon period is over, the cultural attitudes start to jar.

        Culminates in some American workers visiting the parent company's factory in China.

        Well worth a look.

        • Blazer 4.1.1.1

          Seen it.

          The productivity of the Chinese workers was well above the U.S workers.

          And the union were defeated.

          An ironic movie all things..considered.

  5. Blazer 5

    Another couple of unhappy pensioners 'trapped' in OZ.

    Have a unit on the GC ,they use in winter,hopped over in April 2021,popped back to 'check on'their Papamoa property returned to Oz and now face super clawback…

    Covid 19 MIQ lockout: Ministry of Social Development wants $16k back from Kiwi couple – NZ Herald

    • They could have come back to NZ during the OZ-NZ "bubble" last July-I travelled to OZ and back myself at that time.

      More lobbying from the New Zeluxond Herald.

      • Patricia Bremner 5.1.1

        Bearded Git, he apparently had a leaking aorta and could not travel in July. So there may be a case, as my husband only ever saw a cardiologist in Australia. Here it was a brand new Registrar, fresh out from England. So I have sympathy for their medical decisions, and they may have a case as on two occasions they had no ability to get back. They still may have to give up something to pay the bill. As our pragmatic PM says "Such is life".

        • Bearded Git 5.1.1.1

          Didn't know that PB. But if you travel when old you take a risk-we all know that. To blame and attack the government for the odd few cases where MIQ hasn't got it right is unfair.

          Nobody claims MIQ is perfect but it has enabled more than 200,000 people to come home while allowing those already here to live normal lives most of the time and that is some achievement.

        • Blazer 5.1.1.2

          He did manage to travel twice in April and it is their yearly ritual to spend NZ's winter at their unit on the …GC.

          I expect they didn't need the winter power subsidy either and declined it.wink

          Surprised to learn a leaking aeorta can not be treated here.

    • mary_a 5.2

      @ Blazer (5) … Health issues aside, they don't seem to be too hard done by, considering the assets they have. They would have known the rules when they travelled last year and the risks involved, including post surgical issues etc no doubt. So why the bleating about part of their received superannuation being requested to be paid back and being trapped in Australia?

      There are always people a lot worse off than ourselves. I just wish some of us would realise this.

  6. Ed1 6

    I posted the following late in Daily Review on 1 Feb, and not surprisingly did not see any responses:

    I was surprised to see this from Josie Pagani

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/127627615/transmission-gully-shows-we-need-to-rethink-the-public-sector

    Apart from problems caused by Covid and weather and possibly problems with the private construction consortium doing their job, what could the government have done in terms of the PPP Contract. Are the delays yet another PPP botch, or alternatively where have the public sector failed since 2017?

  7. DS 7

    Stuff seems to think there's going to be a five-stage re-opening announced.

    If this Government indeed caves to the media like a wet paper bag, rather than defending its record of keeping NZers healthy (and alive), then frankly it deserves to lose 2023. Re-opening to satiate Grounded Kiwis and sociopathic journalists will result in hundreds of deaths, the collapse of our health system, and the loss of the Big Achievement of the Ardern Government.

    Meanwhile, for the media it's win-win. They get to have their Melbourne lattes and the Labour Government (whom they are working so avidly to destroy) screws itself out of its own cowardice.

    • Ad 7.1

      It is now very possible Labour will lose the next election – even if they are as successful with this variant as with all others.

      There's a simple political reality to people losing patience with Ardern, even if cabinet followed the health advice to the letter.

      • DS 7.1.1

        The loss of patience is a media creation. The only thing the majority of the public cares about is not having the health system collapse.

        The media knows that too, of course. They want to destroy the Government – that's why they're pushing this.

        • Ad 7.1.1.2

          Every poll has Labour tanking lower and lower for over a year.

          Many have speculated that Labour can bring it all back … I don't think they've bottomed yet.

          • alwyn 7.1.1.2.1

            I wonder if this tanking is one of the reason Robertson wants to bring in his redundancy legislation?

            It will help calm down the Labour back-benchers if the 20+ ones who are going to be out of a job would be eligible for up to a year of $100k allowances.

            No, I don't think he is that devious.

          • mpledger 7.1.1.2.2

            There is a statistical quirk that says if you see a really high number then it's much more likely to go down next time it's measured then to go up (aka regression to the mean). Politics could have frozen in time and the next measurements were most likely to go down. But that's the thing with politics, even achieving mega-stardom can be made to look bad.

        • mary_a 7.1.1.3

          Spot on there DS (7.1.1)

    • Sanctuary 7.2

      Like most "decisions" made by this government in relation to the pandemic they don't have any choice. All the decisions made around covid have not been about making the right or wrong decision. Its been about Ardern's undoubted courage to take governing seriously and choose to do the only option on the table, instead of chickening out and doing nothing and retreating into fantasy and denial like the other major world leaders.

      The plain, brutal realpolitik reality is nothing we do, no matter how successful we are, no matter how many times we eliminate COVID, we will have zero impact on the wider world. But what the wider world does has a massive impact on us. If the USA and UK and Australia were governed by people took their job as seriously as Ardern has then maybe we'd have had a chance. But they weren't, they were and are governed by a charlatan, a fool and a weak willed evangelical determinist respectively. So we've got bugger all choice, unless we want the government to issue our very own Sakoku edict and close the country off forever – and we've seen with the cacophony of wailing from the ruling classes that is completely unacceptable. You have every right to feel bitter about that, but that is the way it is. For better or worse, we now have to hope science has defanged COVID enough to allow us to live with it without a massacre of the weak and the disadvantaged occurring.

      As Hegel said, "freedom is the recognition of necessity" and this border opening is the recognition of necessity.

      • Patricia Bremner 7.2.1

        That is a great summary. We are lucky we did not have a "charlatan a fool and a weak willed evangelical determinist" as our Leader. Love your turn of phrase Sanctuary.

    • swordfish 7.3

      .

      Yep … that's bang-on.

    • Ad 8.1

      Just needed to extend the line back in time as a sine curve peaking with the first variant, then smaller peaks, to now.

      Is Omicron still strong enough to curtail so many of our rights?

      The plummeting support for the government and Prime Minister is the answer being made for them.

      • DS 8.1.1

        You think that polling will go back up after they kill hundreds of people because some privileged dimwits can't understand solidarity?

        (Also, how about some polling on border-reopening before declaring this all the fault of MIQ?)

        • Patricia Bremner 8.1.1.1

          Get your booster. That gives real protection with the added health measures. We are going to be affected…but the 1.5 wage/salary component requirement for imported overseas workers WOW that is not BAU!!!

        • Blade 8.1.1.2

          Fair question, DS. Of more importance to me is will the incoming Kiwis forgive and forget? If yes, National is in big trouble. If no, Labour is in big trouble.

          I didn't realise there's a criteria for Kiwis overseas who want to vote. I thought if you wanted to vote you just rocked up to the embassy and voted.

          The overseas Kiwi vote will be interesting this time around.

          And, can our gutted economy cope with an influx of people?

          • swordfish 8.1.1.2.1

            .

            The Overseas Vote comprises a much smaller % of Special Votes than most commentators assume … a mere 12% of Specials in 2020, 14% in 2017.

            • Sabine 8.1.1.2.1.1

              and generally they tend to go left. So this not huge number of overseas votes can still make or brake the numbers for a smaller party such as the Green Party.

              • alwyn

                I may be unduly cynical but I have always had the feeling that the reason the overseas votes tend to favour the Green Party is that the people voting know that they are not going to have to put up with the result.

                • Sabine

                  Who cares really. Everyone votes to their ideals and desires, and frankly the suits are all empty, no matter the color and ideology.

      • weka 8.1.2

        The plummeting support for the government and Prime Minister is the answer being made for them.

        the resetting of polls back to normal after a post-emergency surge is the answer being made for them. Will they hold their nerve? Probably not.

      • Bearded Git 8.1.3

        I think a poll of polls still has a Lab/Gr/MP government Ad*. Luxon isn't impressive-Jacinda will make mincemeat of him in the election debates.

        *has anybody out there done one?-come in Swordfish.

        • Blade 8.1.3.1

          ''Jacinda will make mincemeat of him in the election debates.''

          That's a BIG CALL. Luxon has a tonne of ammo to hit Jacinda with. He's fluent with his speech and thoughts (comparative to Collins). And he can only get better over the coming months.

          He has two problems: He runs his mouth before he has concrete policy to back up what he says. Hell, even Maiki Sherman has caught him out regarding RAT tests for schools.

          His other problems is Jacinda has a magazine of ammo too. She's Mother Nice. She has saved us from big bad Covid. She will give overseas disasters as an example of her totem of benevolence over us. Non-thinkers will lap that up. And why not – it's true. Of course, being non-thinkers, means they don't understand our low death and infection rate has come at an incredible cost.

          ps- having shaken the PMs hand and had a brief conversation with her, I have to admit it’s hard to not like her. I even went gooey when she did a girly giggle while talking. I have never recovered.

          • Bearded Git 8.1.3.1.1

            Blade-have you watched her in parliament at question time? She is excellent.

            • Blade 8.1.3.1.1.1

              Yes, a few times. She seems to harden up in the chamber. I think many, myself included, have wrongly considered her lacking mongrel.

          • Dennis Frank 8.1.3.1.2

            I have never recovered.

            That'd be due to relating to her in person. We are biological entities & feelings generated via interaction with others create emotional intelligence.

            Seeing her as cheerleader of neoliberalism is a category-thinking-driven thing. Seeing her as Labour leader is different again if you allow identity politics to turn you into a partisan opponent (which you did).

            I expect Luxon to improve but have been underwhelmed so far. If she continues to be adept at repositioning he will struggle to score any real hits. Labour's slide in the polls can be halted via good policy delivery.

            • Blade 8.1.3.1.2.1

              ''That'd be due to relating to her in person. We are biological entities & feelings generated via interaction with others create emotional intelligence.''

              Dennis, you are a Rembrandt with words.

          • Patricia Bremner 8.1.3.1.3

            devil Me too. It is affecting when you realise she is genuine.

    • Blazer 9.1

      Difficult situation this one.

      Wonder whether a dedicated estate, where all unsociable,recalcitrant offendors could be rehoused with those of a similar disposition.

      • Gypsy 9.1.1

        Good idea – somewhere like the Auckland Islands?

      • Graeme 9.1.2

        Difficult situation this one.

        Not wrong, and one that goes back several Governments.

        I had to facilitate my mother's move out of her home of 40 years in Henderson in 2013 because of an incompatibility with the state tenants (HNZ in those days) in the unit next door. Fortunately we were able to find a solution that was a win for both sides but it could have very easily had a very unhappy ending for all.

      • Craig H 9.1.3

        That's my preferred solution, although would need a few of them around the country.

    • Dennis Frank 9.2

      You bet. The headline Govt Fosters Domestic Terrorism had been looming awhile.

      State house tenants who terrorise their neighbours can now be moved on faster after Kāinga Ora changed its complaints process.

      As long as the policy change actually works, and cases stop featuring in news stories, it will be a problem solved & credit to the minister.

    • Anker 9.3

      Abot bloody time the Minister changed this policy on bad tennants. The policy was driven by some fantasy that if you treat badly behaved people nicely they will improve or stop doing their anti social acts. No that just re inforces the idea that if you behave badly you get away with it. Basic parenting to do the opposite.

      Shows a lack of empathy. IMO what happens when ideology over interferes with common decency. Plenty of worthy tenants needing housing.

      • Gypsy 9.3.1

        Well said.

      • swordfish 9.3.2

        Yep … I'll have a bit to say about this in the near future … currently just wondering if it will apply to Iwi-controlled housing (Ngati Toa are now managing all previous KO housing in my Parent's area … & they've been as useless as the KO manager was in terms of ending the Nightmare).

      • Belladonna 9.3.3

        I'd like to see the actual direction that the Minister has given KO (rather than just a media report).
        From the report, the directive seems much less strong than is indicated in the headline.
        KO 'can' use the three-strikes policy (which, actually, they've always been able to – since it's in the Residential Tenancies Act).

        Williams is quoted

        "[Kāinga Ora] can deal with the situation, can terminate the tenancy, can move tenants to another neighbourhood in a much more timely way than has happened in the past," Williams said.

        There's a lot of 'can' in that statement, not a lot of 'will'

        Further down in the article, Williams is quoted:

        " Poto Williams maintains evictions are still possible, just a last resort."

        No indication if that is a recent quote (possibly not, since it's in the Willis commentary).

        I'd like to know if that's still her position, and that of KO. Because I'm not seeing anything else in the article to indicate that the 'last resort' is going to be reached an awful lot more quickly for severely disruptive tenants now, than it has been over the last 3 years.

        • Anker 9.3.3.1

          100% Belladonna…… "can move tenants to another neighbourhood".. WTF, so some poor other person has to put up with them????

          Why a last resort to move tennants? Why not 2 warnings then your out? If Ms Williams had one of these people as a neighbour they would be out quick smart. Guaranteed.

        • swordfish 9.3.3.2

          Absolutely … although it represents a potentially welcome policy shift … I share your underlying wariness & suspicion about just how far it goes.

        • Gypsy 9.3.3.3

          Very good questions. I live in hope.

    • Patricia Bremner 9.4

      Swordfish will be pleased.smiley

  8. Blazer 10

    Was surprised to read this….

    'Israel, which has one of the highest COVID-19 vaccination rates in the world with already nearly half of its citizens having received three shots, is leading the world in new daily cases per capita, according to Jan. 20 data.'

    Report pushing the 'Chinese' virus narrative.

    Israel, One of Most Vaccinated Countries in the World, Sets New COVID-19 Case Record (ntd.com)

    • Koff 10.1

      A NTD TV report. Do the Falun Gong, who are the author of that report, know anything about epidemiology? I thought that that article was a total spoof until I found out who wrote it.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 10.2

      I haven't looked at either of the links, but credible sources do indicate Israel currently has high and climbing cases and deaths.

      While Israel is perceived as "highly jabbed" – this is mostly based on their booster (and booster+1) rollout. Their underlying vaccination rates are mediocre and certainly will allow the virus to transmit and cause widespread disease / death quite happily. Making some people very protected while many remain completely unprotected, won't stop transmission and disease. They also scaled back their other controls.

      Data from ourworldindata.org and RNZ (whole population):

      At least one Dose:

      I: 72% NZ:82%

      At least 2 doses:

      I:66% NZ:77%

      Boosted:

      I:55% NZ:27%

  9. So it looks like the government is at the very least not ruling out the possibility of rent controls,

    “Nothing is off the table, including rent controls, as Government officials search for ways to help people struggling with the cost of accommodation, Associate Housing Minister Poto Williams says”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/renting/127672790/nothing-off-the-table-as-government-considers-rent-controls-to-tackle-unaffordable-housing

    this, despite the fact that price controls are well known to cause shortages: eg:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/business/economy/inflation-price-controls.html

    https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/PriceControls.html

    That being the case, rent controls will probably just make the situation worse, and at the same time, ruin their economic credibility.

    The government should immediately rule out such ideas as bat shit crazy IMO.

    Rather than try to control the price side of the equation, they should be encouraging the supply side of the equation. If they had actually made linear progress towards their kiwibuild 100000 houses promise, the situation would be a lot better now.

    • Blazer 11.1

      '

      If they had actually made linear progress towards their kiwibuild 100000 houses promise, the situation would be a lot better now.'

      'if'…

      Theres a lot they could do…rent controls may have merit.Any landlord receiving accomodation subsidy money should be restricted on rental charges imo.

    • Gypsy 11.2

      "Rather than try to control the price side of the equation, they should be encouraging the supply side of the equation. "
      The government have actively discouraged the supply side. This government seems not to have learned that meddling has unintended consequences.

      • Blazer 11.2.1

        How have they actively discouraged the…supply side?

        There is no…'free market'.

        • Gypsy 11.2.1.1

          "How have they actively discouraged the…supply side?"

          Two examples: 1. Loading costs onto landlords, and 2. removing interest deductibility.

          Ultimately anything that increases costs to the landlords will push up rents and/or makes being a landlord less attractive. If the government buts in again and regulates rents, it will just get worse.

          • Blazer 11.2.1.1.1

            That does not affect supply!

            If existing landlords put up rents on existing accomodation the supply stays the same.

            If you are saying because of extra costs to landlords ,they stop renting out their properties…you may have a point, albeit a ludicrous one.

            • Gypsy 11.2.1.1.1.1

              "If you are saying because of extra costs to landlords ,they stop renting out their properties…you may have a point, albeit a ludicrous one."
              It's not ludicrous. But it isn't just about existing landlords, it's also about churn – whether new landlords are entering the market to meet increased demand. I'm a landlord. From where I sit it's pretty. From the point of view of tenants, not so much.

            • tsmithfield 11.2.1.1.1.2

              Supply is related to demand. So, if the supply stays the same, and demand is rising, then prices will rise. Vice-versa, they should fall.

              Or landlords could decide to sell up. And that might be to people like my son and his partner who were happily living at my house and thereby not causing any strain on the housing market, but took the opportunity to buy their own home when it was there.

              So, even landlords selling houses doesn't necessarily mean a net zero effect in terms of housing availability.

              In fact, if my son and his partner had purchased a house off a landlord, it might have been two people displacing a large family.

              • Blazer

                It well could.

                But if becoming a landlord was not so appealing,more stock would be available to buyers who actually want to have their own home to live in and raise a family.

                Who wants to be at the mercy of craven property managers/landlords hydraulicing rents for whatever reason?

                Lets not forget the 40,000 empty homes in Auckland alone just sitting there accruing value.

                Over 2 billion is shelled out to landlords via the AS…that money could be used for soft loans to first home buyers.

                Wack stamp duty on owners of multiple rentals and it would make a huge difference to home ownership in NZ.

          • Jimmy 11.2.1.1.2

            I have increased the rent on my rental property last year to cover the extra cost to me of only being able to deduct a lesser amount of the mortgage interest this tax year (ie. 75% deductible from Oct 1 2021 to 31 March 2022). The tenant was very understanding and is still below the true market rental when compared to next door property.

            My property still available as a rental (so no supply change) but the deductibility rules are far worse for new landlords as no interest is deductible and so many will be put off entering the market.

            • tsmithfield 11.2.1.1.2.1

              Exactly, and developers who had been considering building properties to rent could well be put off as well.

            • Gypsy 11.2.1.1.2.2

              That's precisely what I'm trying to say. Thanks.

              • The best way to solve the housing crisis is to encourage the building of more houses and make it attractive for people to be landlords.

                That is a lot cheaper than the government building its own houses.

                • Blazer

                  Disagree.

                  Very few landlords buy new builds.

                  A significant number of people who are renting are paying enough weekly to service a mortgage.

                  The govt should be encouraging new home ownership and discouraging landlords from hoovering up even more stock.

                  People need a stake in society,and home ownership is a vital one.

                  Young NZ'ers will vote with their feet.

                  Landlords are a parasitic blight albeit a rational blight,given the appeal of unearned income and untaxed CG.

                  • Jimmy

                    Sorry but I disagree with you. Private landlords are providing a service. Imagine how many more state houses would be needed if all private landlords exited the market tomorrow.

                    "A significant number of people who are renting are paying enough weekly to service a mortgage." – if this is the case, then I would strongly advise them to stop renting and buy but I think you will find they are usually unable to or don't have a deposit.

                    • pat

                      How would the private landlords exit?….by selling their stock perhaps?…to who?….first home buyers, or the gov?.

                      Or would there be a mass arson event?

                    • As I pointed out in my first post, a lot of people are living with their parents, or perhaps flatting with others, or in a boarding situation.

                      So, if those people buy houses from landlords, the availability of houses for rent will decline. It is not a zero effect on housing supply.

                  • "Very few landlords buy new builds."

                    I think you should provide evidence to justify that statement.

                    If it is true, then it is because the government isn't giving the right incentives to make it worthwhile.

                    What I think would be good would be for the government to incentivise the building and renting of long-term rentals (10-20 years) so they can have the stability of home ownership at what should be a lower cost than paying a mortgage.

                    • Blazer

                      Is your rental a new build?

                      You have only supplied personal anecdotes yourself…no hard evidence.

                      All the landlords I know concentrate on existing homes.

                      Weathertight issues and the uncertainty around completion costs are factors that deter them from new builds.Understandable.

                • Jimmy

                  I believe mortgage interest is deductible still on new builds only.

                  • pat

                    Not quite…

                    "The Government intends to limit the ability to deduct interest to make residential properties a less attractive investment option and to help level the playing field for first home buyers.

                    The proposal is that, from 1 October 2021, interest will not be deductible for residential property acquired on or after 27 March 2021. For properties acquired before 27 March 2021, generally investors’ ability to deduct interest will be phased out between 1 October 2021 and 31 March 2025. Some properties are excluded from these rules and some exemptions are proposed."

                    https://taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/en/publications/2021/2021-other-interest-limitation/1-proposals-at-a-glance

                    .

            • UncookedSelachimorpha 11.2.1.1.2.3

              Out of interest, how much capital gain has the property made in the last couple of years?

              • Jimmy

                Probably quite a bit as it's in a nice part of Auckland and I have owned it for a long time and don't intend to sell it. But how is that relevant?

                • UncookedSelachimorpha

                  Chances are you have obtained a 250k or so capital gain in the last year or two – so you could consider that when thinking about going after your tenants for some other comparatively minor cost increase.

  10. Patricia Bremner 12

    A shout out to Swordfish and Gezza.

    yesHope you are coping. Many here are thinking of you.

  11. James 2 13

    Fascinating, pre-print study from UK ("Safety, tolerability and viral kinetics during SARS-CoV-2 human challenge").

    They purposely infected 36 healthy people in 18-30 year old bracket with the original (pre-Delta and Omicron) Covid. None had been vaccinated nor previously had Covid. Only 18 got infected, and all were mild-moderate symptoms. Lateral flow testing was not perfect, but worked very well with detecting presence of Covid when infectious.

    It reinforces what we know: it's predominantly a disease of age and co-morbidity. Omicron in particularly is known to be significantly less serious for hospitalisation and death, as European countries infections have skyrocketed but hospitalisation and death plateaued.

    Obviously, the same study on older and those with co-morbidities would have higher infection and serious symptoms rate, but I don't believe an exponential increase given the average age of Covid deaths in UK has been roughly the life expectancy.

    Boosting has little impact on infection and transmission of Omicron, and unclear longer-term reduction of hospitalisation and death . Also, unless you wear FFP2/N95 mask properly and once only, then mask wearing has very little impact but significant social cost.

    Solution? Have easy and targeted access to vaccines for those at higher risk. Emphasize reduction of risks from co-morbidities through healthier lifestyle and cheap lateral flow testing at home. Have clear, non-partisan information on the benefits and risks (without exaggerating either) of vaccine for others, like Japan has done.

    Emphasize understand that we will all get it (and can spread it) at some point – vaccinated or not – and enable people to make their own risk assessment and choice on how to respond. Fund Covid pills for all, to further reduce likelihood of hospitalation or death. Structural investment in health system for flexibility for future pandemics.

    Give information and access, and trust people to make decisions for themselves – like for every other health issue.

    No vaccine mandates or passports, no forced self-isolation, no lockdowns, no mandated masks, no traffic lights, no "experts" daily sermons, no relentless fear.

    Move forward.

    • mpledger 13.1

      If you live to the average age of death then you actually have about 5-7ish (IIRC) years of life yet – that's because people die in infancy (still) and as teenagers – it's a thing called survivorship bias – being healthy means you live to an old age and the converse being old means you are healthy. What you want to look at is life expectancy at birth which the kingsfund did.

      "There have been two turning points in trends in life expectancy in England in the past decade. From 2011 increases in life expectancy slowed after decades of steady improvement, prompting much debate about the causes. Then in 2020, the Covid-19 pandemic was a more significant turning point, causing a sharp fall in life expectancy the magnitude of which has not been seen since World War II."

      "By 2019, life expectancy at birth in England had increased to 79.9 years for males and 83.6 years for females (see Figure 2). However, the Covid-19 pandemic caused life expectancy in 2020 to fall to 78.6 years for males and to 82.6 years for females, the level of a decade ago."

      https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/whats-happening-life-expectancy-england

      ~~~~~~~~~

      You don't make policy for older people based on 36 young people.

      What are these covid pills? Ivermectin? It's not redemsivir because that is intravenous.

      You totally ignores the effect of long-covid.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 13.2

      Move forward.

      I'm picking a move backwards to the "grand illusion" of BAU, but time will tell.

      2022’s Imperative: Letting Go of Our Past to Birth Our Future
      [18 January 2022]
      The epic disruptions wrought by a dramatic surge in heat waves, storms, floods, droughts, fires, and now the COVID-19 pandemic leave us desperate to return to life as we previously knew it. In our growing panic, we forget that it is exactly that previous way of living that created the current emergency.

      This is not a temporary problem that we can put behind us by electing new political leaders or reducing our use of plastic bags. We are dealing with false assumptions about what and who we are that lead to deeply flawed collective choices. We must publicly challenge those false assumptions and replace them with our deepening understanding of how life works.

      'This is just the beginning': How high heat of 2021 drove catastrophic weather [29 January 2022]
      What we’re seeing now in terms of extremes is just a little bit of the future,” Vautard said. “Societies should be prepared for much bigger.

    • McFlock 13.3

      coolcool. Now infect 36,000 and see how many drop dead. 🙄

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 13.4

      Yeah…nah.

      That is an awful lot to infer from experimental infection of only 36 people with the less-infectious original Wuhan strain. And the authors of the study certainly don't conclude or suggest the various things you are concluding – and they weren't trying to study any of that (or design their experiment to study any of that).

      Did you notice that they only inoculated the subjects nasally – which is less dangerous than inoculation directly to deeper parts of the respiratory tract, which is what can occur in natural settings? And they used a low and controlled infectious dose. There was no evidence at all of lung disease in these subjects – when we know most of the many people in hospital with Covid (including those without apparent co-morbidities) have viral pneumonia.

      Think I'll take my medical advice from actual experts.

  12. swordfish 14

    .

    Public Opinion on Three Waters Reform: [Latest One News Kantar Poll (formerly Colmar Brunton)]:

  13. swordfish 15

    .

    Public Opinion on New Zealand's Official Name: [One News Kantar / Colmar Brunton Poll Sep 2021]:

    • swordfish 15.1

      Interestingly, based on the partial ethnic breakdowns provided … I'm guessing that close to half of Māori [possibly a little more than half] want to stick with New Zealand.

      • Muttonbird 15.1.1

        Who exactly is demanding an official change?

        I'd say next to no-one and this is all an exercise by Hobson's Choice/ACT/various other white supremacists groups to stir the pot, needlessly.

      • Anker 15.1.2

        Oh I did that poll and voted Aotearoa New Zealand. Interesting finding that 58% want to keep it as NZ. As a pragmatist, changing our name like changing the flag will cost money and I rather see that money spent on paying nurses decent wages, free dental treatment to name but two. In general front line workers. I am afraid I half agree with David Seymour on Govt Depts, extra staff and high wages. $93,000 for example average in Education ministry I think he said. Make these Ministrys justify what they do. Eg Ministry of Children. What have they done that has improved the lot of children in this country? I am listening, cause I could be wrong about this so open to hearing actual outcomes from this ministry that have improved the lot of children.

        It is pretty obvious what children need. Adequate food, housing, education, health care and dentistry. And hopefully good parenting/love (which the govt has less control over).

  14. pat 16

    Finally people are beginning to feel safe speaking truth to power…

    "Although landlord greed seems to be the primary target of the new housing policies, there is an even larger, greedier actor behind the housing markets: banks. Without the eagerness of banks to lend increasing amounts of debt onto the shoulders of owner-occupiers and residential investors, the current obscene prices would not be possible. Arguably, loosely regulated bank lending is the central reason behind the gulf between house prices and household incomes in New Zealand and around the world."

    https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/114201/if-banks%E2%80%99-lending-behaviour-found-have-contributed-nz%E2%80%99s-housing-quagmire-banks

    Not that every vested interest and their dog wont continue with their misdirection.

    • Blazer 16.1

      Good article.

      States the obvious imo.

      This-'If banks’ lending behaviour is found to have contributed to New Zealand’s housing quagmire then banks must be held to account and share the pain when the bubble inevitably bursts.'

      Good luck with any Govt having success with…that!

      • pat 16.1.1

        They could have success if they had the courage….but it is worth considering who is responsible for regulating the banks and the reason why they have been allowed to create the mother of all property bubbles.

  15. Anker 17

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127674468/acts-david-seymour-mocks-red-queen-jacinda-ardern-in-stateofnation-speech

    someone may of posted this already. David Seymour going all out right wing. This will appeal to a small but significant number of voters.

    labour will be worried by this

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