- Date published:
6:00 am, March 3rd, 2021 - 74 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:
Open mike is your post.
For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.
The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).
Step up to the mike …
Damn you National.
Judith Collins is advocating direct payment, at 100%, to workers for personal COVID related absence from work, via MSD, I like IRD better but whatever, it is a positive suggestion.
The Govt. has distributed “COVID cash” to employers with gay abandon but been tight as when it comes to the working class, and has not promoted what is available with much vigour until the last week or so.
Greens and unions/NZCTU seem to support the basic proposition put forward by National. ‘Pay to isolate’ seems an approach worth trying as lockdowns become more problematic on many fronts.
It is stating the obvious that NZ National by default usually shafts low paid workers, and puts the boot in for dessert, but in this pandemic situation, the Govt. should urgently adopt Collin’s idea.
I suspect Collins is quite keen to see the budget deficit go sky-high under Labour – so that at some time in the future a National government can point at it in horror and start selling assets and cutting government services to pay for it. It's part of setting up the conditions where an austerity narrative can take over. And the fact that she proposed an upper limit for the payment at nearly $3k/week, rather than at (say) the living wage or median wage, makes it clear who she is trying to help.
Working class people need proper, easier to access assistance right now, not in future. If the debate over Collins proposal rectifies the Govt. blindspot and provokes action then good in my view.
Of course National will have ulterior motives, but the future is not yet here. If the Labour Caucus can be shifted, details such as the high upper limit would likely be dealt with.
Have the RBNZ write off all the govt debt it holds. And if that doesn't go far enough get the RBNZ to buy more and write that off too.
It's certainly an admission by National that employers can't be trusted to pass on subsidies and that the private sector is not able to be relied upon in a post pandemic world.
There's hope for them yet!
Frist – The government has distributed Covid Cash to employers with gay abandon – not so fast Hoss please hold your horse.
You actually have to fill out forms, provide all business and employee details for every employee for which you then get a set amount depending on the criteria and besides in order to get that sweet sweet easy Covid Cash you actually have to prove to have lost quite a bit of business before Grant Robertson is happy to part with what he seems to consider his money. So much so that many businesses in NZ only received the original payment for lockdown l4 that was handed out to pretty much every one in NZ. Never mind, blame everyone for the big businesses that did not need it but took it anyways.
There have been many – including me – that already at the time last year in March said that the 'wage subsidy' was the wrong approach and that the payment should have gone to individuals via IRD or ACC for that matter. I.e. an isolation payment when it is needed.
Many have also asked – like me – that the government actually hire bodies to have their governmental 0800 lines answered in a timely fashion. Individuals like me have also pointed out that if hte government requires people to stay at home – that then they should be paying that individual – rather then the business. All the government did was outsourse – for no pay i might add – a task that they could not be bothered to hire people – to businesses.
The wage subsidy is also before tax 200 odd NZD below the min wage, take another hundered off on Tax and you end up with approx $ 480 (for full time – part time is even less) after tax, and for that money in AKL you don't even rent a dog kennel let alone live for a whole week. And the government knows that, as do all the guys preparing food parcels in the various Temples, Churches and Marais in South Auckland and elsewhere.
All of these issues were raised last year by various groups, and the government did an awesome job of not listening. then and it appears it is still not listening.
I give them the first wage subsidy as they made it up as they went along, but we are 1 year in now in this pandemic and we are still working with the same model.
I don't think i ever agreed with J.C ever on anything, but i agree with her on that. IT should not be the employers cost and time to assure their staff goes into isolation and stays there when it is the government that 'requires' it. Anyone in NZ who is on Home D gets paid their cost of living via Winz. ….Just saying.
And to those that want to not pay people enough to be able to self isolate and keep their roof over their heads so that we could keep a surplus or go not into debt needs to understand that people who can't pay rent and eat will go out and do what needs to be done in order to do so.
Has everyone already forgotten the stories of young people not going back to school so that they can grab a job and help families? Or do we not care about these things on the left anymore?
Anytime someone has a test and is required to isolate they should be handed a piece of paper with an 0800 number that is answered within the first three calls and gives his 'testing number' and applies for the isolation payment, and what to do. That is how it should be done, and to boot it would boost employment, specifically for the many women who don't have jobs anymore.
Agree with most of your points Sabine, and after a year it is past time for a relook by Govt. and a “reset” of how much payments are, and how they are made.
That was a good overall look at the situation Sabine, I guess the takeaway is, that if The National under the leadership of Collins tracks left of our left party (not left, actually centrist liberal) then we know we have got some real problems…whatever the motives of JC are.
We live in the hood in Napier, and can feel an undeniable tension brewing in our neighborhood, there is a lot of very stressed fellow citizens out there.
The wage subsidy went through the business’s account to help both the business, by providing cashflow, and the employees, by providing cash to pay their wages.
If it had gone directly to the employees a large number of businesses would have failed because there was no money flowing through the account. Banks don’t like that.
It’s also the way business wanted it done, so really strange that National are coming out now and saying it should be paid direct to the employee.
One thing the wage subsidy structure has done is sort out the dodgy fuckers who weren’t paying tax or pulling other rorts, they had to sort their affairs out pdq or go down. Maybe that’s who Collins is speaking for.
Graeme, we know that companies had been left with mega profits and surplus cash.
Could it be that they spend this on assets? How that works is like this: you cash in on as much of the subsidy you can, pay staff 80% (some did not but lets assume, benefit of doubt etc.). Make a bundle as they had their "doors" open, maybe as a "essential" businesses and competition is dead. Post mega profits, don't pay back the cash that was given in good faith and naively so (my mind still bogles), and buy assets under the heading: we need this to give the employees the best tools- yeah. Now not only have the assets now been bought with taxpayer money, no no no…this can get better still. Now these assets will depreciate through the books and claimed back via tax credits. These are being now for years to come supported in the main by the lowest paid via tax take that supports that the tax refund of the assets bought. Clever eh? I am sorry but this does not speak for a finance minister unless he has a plan to check via IRD what the business has done with the subsidy.
You know what subsidy means, don’t you?
You know the original intent and purpose of the Wage Subsidy Scheme, don’t you? If not, read Graeme’s reply to you @ 1.3.3.
The Wage Subsidy Scheme was much more generous than bog-standard benefits for unemployed, for example. It perversely created a 2-tier social welfare system and beneficiary category for middle class Kiwis.
it is ironic though because the problem with the rule breakers (other than the kfc worker) was not that they broke the rules to go to work. Theybroke the rules to ….let’s see….go for a walk, go to the gym, go to their mit course, go get takeaways etc.
I feel completely sorry for Ardern. The stress on her must be enormous and she has indicated this is the case. She has done extremely well, outstandingly well in fact. Imagine the “shambles” we would be in if National had of been in charge. Understandably she would have been furious with the rule breakers, if for no other reason she has to front late on Saturday night and Sunday and any precious time she gets off is gone. Now Pagani and some business goon, not to mention Seymour are yapping like stupid little dogs. Beat off.
I think the rule breakers are completely responsible for there own actions. I know a commenter yesterday mentioned getting contradictory advice, and this may be the case at a healthline level. But generally the messaging has been excellent. People do know what to do. We all did it last March. All 5 million of us. Anyone with half a brain and an ounce of thoughtfulness about other people would do everything they can to avoid passes the virus on to other people, even if they are a casual contact.
I watch an amazing travel blog and the guy goes to remote parts of the old Soviet Union. He visited Chernobyl where a few elderly people stayed on after the nuclear accident in 1986. Even these very isolated people were socially distancing from him saying “corona virus”.
ok rave over……..and btw incognito, agree I was wrong on dr last night. Btw the travel blog is called bald and bankrupt with Benjamin Rich. Thoroughly recommend
if the government had thrown the book at the first rule breakers – those that broke out of the quarantine hotels for some beersies and pie, or to go to a funeral, or even to break in – maybe people would take it a bit more serious.
People fuck up, young people more then old people and the onus is on the Government to make sure people are aware of their responsabilites and when they break the rules, bring down the hammer.
Now it appears that we can't do that to some people coming back from overseas, but we are happy to do so with people who live in South Auckland.
Yeah, lets be really kind and gentle with the government, that is what being kind and gentle is all about, right? It never was meant for hte population, specifically not the population that lives in over crowding, has min wage jobs, lives in areas not so nice and leavy, and is young and dumb.
So the guys who broke out of the Hotels got charged? or did not cause we do n't want to not clog up our courts?
and this here
as i said above, hand out a piece of paper with the O800 number to apply for financial aid and self isolate as per legal requirements of face this or that punishment.
And fwiw, all of this could have been prevented if the government would have not lifted the lockdown from the 15th feb after three days – cause its all under controll-, that too was dumb, foolish and quite premature.
Maybe someone tell the government to not call a lockdown 3 unless they are happy to keep it for the two weeks of incubation period. Or is that unkind to mention, rather then blame all this brouhaha on a 21 year old.
So kind Sabine – of course our reckons here are of no consequence, and maybe that's for the best. I for one wouldn't want to be in Ardern's, Hipkin’s or Bloomfield's shoes given the number of snipers out and about.
Covid 19 coronavirus: Health chief Ashley Bloomfield to update on latest Covid-19 test results
Well it was dumb, premature and hindsight given, foolish, considering that since the lifting of that lockdown every other day someone tested positive and that was before the foolish fellow went to the gym rather then home.
As for stress? Well, anyone who currently has to manage a job, family, homeschooling, etc under covid and can not safely work from home has high levels of stress. How about we have some compassion for them? How about living in South Auckland under Covid, with no increase in benefits, crap job prospects, over crowding and kids not going to school because the money they make frying chips at KFC is needed to pay rent at home. Stress, we all have it, and not one of us has the resources the PM has to take care of that stress.
My opinion is that the PM is under more stress than most, so my compassion extends to include her. If giving Ardern grief could somehow reduce community stress levels, then I could get behind that.
Maybe I'm under-estimating the benefits of venting
Well your opinion stands, as does mine. I however don't measure stress in Unities of stressdessness, but rather consider the stress of someone on a benefit not having the money to pay rent as equally important then the stress of a PM who again has to tell people to be kind and gentle, and stand up and explain why another fuck up has happened, that frankly would not have happened had she not lifted the previous lock up for the cases that started all that.
I don't care at all actually, but the blaming this whole situation on this one dude is pathetic. He ain't responsible for the outbreak, as of now we still don't know the source of the original infection, and again, if the initial outbreak had been contained in the Level 3 declared on the 15th Feb maintained, chances are we would be discussing something else.
As for J.A. if she feels that she can't cope she needs to delegate. She has a good team of highly paid advisors, helpmeets and courtiers, she should make use of them. That should help with the stress.
Being in debt can be stressful. Fortunately I can only imagine the stress that the 10% of NZers who have accumulated a collective debt of $13 billion experience daily. I favour a fair tax on wealth, such as that advocated by the Green party, as a relatively painless method of transferring wealth to alleviate stresses associated with a life in debt.
As to Ardern's "helpmeets and couttiers", she may be using them, but (as they say) "the buck stops here", and I reckon there's a fair bit of stress associated with her leadership role, delegation notwithstanding. Put it this way, it's not a role that I would wish on anyone, and I believe that NZ lucked out when Ardern became PM.
It's a hard road finding the perfect PM…
I'll take a guess that many of those with substantial net negative wealth are actually those not long out of completing their tertiary education and embarking on lucrative careers. With substantial student loans. That's kinda hard to get our heads around for those of my generation and older, that got our tertiary educations more or less free.
The ones I'm more concerned about are probably in the next decile or two – more or less zero net wealth and really no prospects of ever building any, just struggling every day to pay the rent, power, food and other bills on minimal incomes that don't have prospects of improving and are vulnerable to displacement by automation.
Imagine if the 16 billion would have gone there instead.
No, of course not, only law-abiding citizens who were walking their dog in the wrong suburb without a facemask for their furry friend and bikers biking on the wrong beach while wearing lycra \sarc
You seem to think that National’s plan is simple to implement. It is not; it is impractical and would be hopelessly inefficient as pointed out by others:
IMO, Government made the right call to lift the lockdown; they had no evidence to support longer lockdown. If people had followed the rules, we would not be in the current situation.
Thank-you Anker for noting the rule breakers broke the rules (bar one of them) for recreational reasons and not to go to work. These people may not have English as a first language etc., and granted there needs to be more thorough tracking of individuals, but after a year of Covid lockdowns you can't tell me they don't have some idea what the rules are when caught up in these situations.
And I agree about Pagani (who I mentioned on DR last evening) and others flinging accusations around like confetti which don't stack up with what actually happened.
This is interesting now that more info. has come to light…..seems like KFC worker didn't break the rules.
Covid 19 coronavirus: Government website contradicts Jacinda Ardern's KFC worker claim – NZ Herald
But but but………
Jimmy, suggest you watch Minister Hipkins and Dr Bloomfield's presser
Yes I saw this, when they were questioned about case L they really struggled, then Hipkins got absolutely reamed by Heather DPA on ZB later too. Not sure if English is case L's first language, but when the web site says no need to isolate, she probably took that as being what to go by. Did they even receive the letters that were posted? It highlights the fact the communication needs to be clearer.
"At the end of the day they were all asked to be tested and none of them were"
I didnt think they struggled. Maybe you should watch the presser again, you appear to have missed a number of facts, example the school sent out 3 letters and the vast majority complied, 98% and case L still went to work despite 2 people in her household were sick. If a Newshub clip is anything to go by, language isn't the problem
I thought Hipkins stood up well against Heather's badgering, who should have acquainted herself with the following:
14 -2 – 2014
“The letters will tell staff and parents of students if
Everyone at the school last week – staff, students and visitors – will be asked to get tested.
Close contacts are asked to get tested and stay home until the end of Feb 24 in case they are infectious. Family members in their household are also asked to get tested and stay at home until they receive a negative test result.
Casual contacts are asked to get tested and remain at home until they receive a negative test result”
Even Claire of the NZ Herald seems to think the message was confusing and she normally never has a bad word to say about this government.
"Further confusion came from a Facebook post by the Covid-19 team which stated in black and white that L and her family "complied with advice they were given at the time".
Claire Trevett: The Prime Minister, Case L and the pickle of confusion – NZ Herald
Oh no! Not Claire as well! The last remaining supporter of the PM left in MSM has succumbed after a long brutal battle with the facts 🙁
the messaging from the government was not the best
the individual fucked up?
How about that? Would that work, would that may be the closest to what happened?
And for the idea that people should by now know? Heck even Weka stated she has no idea what level three means, and she also stated that in the South Island hardly anyone scans into shops and hte likes. Maybe everyone got a bit complacent and its about time to ramp it all up again and be serious?
Or more like case L picked which advice she wanted to take notice of.
well there you go again.
Why not that both? Simply the government message could have been more detailed, more forceful, and maybe even speak about things that happen when not complying and the cases could have done better too.
So the guy who went to the gym, dude we have whole youtube channels of 21 year old blokes doing stupid shit even tho they know better. Go figure. Fine him. He will remeber that. \
The girls that went to work? How flush in cash is the family? Was it well communicated that they are supposed to get the wage subsidy? Did KFC disclose that to the girls?
how about both parties could have done better, and we can move on without anyone frothing any further on the seams.
Well then again it could be just a simple matter of picking what suited too. The guy who went to the gym after getting tested had also been though MIQ, he most certainly knew better.
and as he had been tested several times and came out negative he just thought…..Oh well, she'll be right. Which is about as Kiwi as Kiwi can get.
Both sides could have done better.
But the guy, case M, tested positive, along with his mother.
I have sympathy for the KFC worker as the website said she didn't need to isolate at the time. She is standing up for herself as she believes she's correct based on the web site. Also if she is willing to take on Jacinda she is obviously very confident she is correct (or needs to pick her fights better). I don't have any sympathy for the bloke that went to the gym after getting a test.
You keep ignoring all the other facts Jimmy.
That doesnt help your argument Jimmy. I thought case L said she had no advice, no communication what so ever? I also thought you said you watched the presser. Bloomfield made the distinction that it didnt come from the MoH website, it was general information & not up to date.
The other day I said returnees were contributing to continued house price inflation but that didn't sit well with some determined to blame the government and the government only.
But here's further evidence of the Covid world supercharging the housing market. Both the inability to travel, and the change to working from home is also putting pressure on prices.
So these are not returning kiwis but stuck kiwis? I think that was what led to a bit of pushback? The wholesale blame of 'returning kiwis' while it is our homegrown established kiwis with access to easy money that are fucking up for pretty much anyone.
Because the article essentially says that this is "kiwis' not returning.
And yes, the government – all of them for decades now – have not done anything to curb speculation.
But fear not, soon there will be another travel bubble (one way of course ) and then that Kiwi money will go overseas and surely that will then lead to a total collapse of the housing market and its prices.
And did you know that Kiwis just love love love Auctions?
Sabine, a lot of kiwis living overseas buying property at auctions unseen to secure a retirement home. First they F… up the economy and then they come back demanding that the taxpayer pays for their pension. Yep, it seems there is a certain slice of the population who preach compassion but then take everybody to he cleaners.
and our government is a ok with it.
Simple as. It is time to actually start laying the blame where it belongs, government inaction, personal greed, lax lending rules to those that have enough 'equity' for a down payment, and so on and so forth.
the thing with the 'cashed up kiwis from overseas' they are kiwis, firstly, secondly they all went overseas to make hte money they need to get a a million dollar shack here, cause they will never make enough money here.
So frankly this 'kiwis' this and 'kiwis' that is getting tiresome. We are a low income country, our benefits all sit below the poverty line, we feed millions in accom benefit to landlords who rent shacks for hundreds of dollars unaffordable to most, and our government is doing fuck all other then paying lipservice sand doling out that sweet sweet accom benefit..
The people do as the government does and promotes, and no one likes to be poor, and sadly in NZ hard work does not pay, if it would some of our poor immigrant workers would be rich. So property it is. Thanks government for doing fuck all.
Some thoughts on politics from the criminally overlooked John S. Hall…
News Thump – UK spoof news and satire.
Daily Mail vindicated as Prince Philip confirms ‘grandson doing interview’ definitely worse than ‘son being nonce’
Philip's gone to two different hospitals undergoing multiple scans and transfusions and they still can't find a soul.
He's the living link between Covid19 and the Undead.
Unexpected 2 day holiday.
Went for my induction at work this morning, expecting to get on the job after, only to have the pre employment drug screen fail to show me clear of meth. Now I have to wait until the lab clears me, hopefully before Monday.
Checking online as to how I, not being a p head, could have failed and, as I suspected, found one of my diabetes meds is known for false positives. Metformin users, be forewarned. The people have been quite kind about it, but you know, good way to make a great first impression.
As a note for type 2 fellows, I just got put on a new drug to control high blood sugar levels for when diet and exercise isn't working. It's called Jardiance, which makes your kidneys pee out sugar. Drastically dropped my levels after 1 pill, and after only 5 days, I've got bang on numbers. Ask your GP or diabetes nurse.
The recent concerns about how New Zealand treats this who cannot work, or need social assistance just to do basic activities, reminded me of my own time dealing with Work and Income New Zealand. It reminded me of the culture of treating clients with suspicion, where staff commented on clothing, social life and relationships. It reminded me of a pedantic, straight jacketed system with no flexibility for extraordinary cases.
As a response to that I have started a petition that asks the Minister of Social Development and Minister Of Finance to urgently enable a substantial increase in the size of social welfare payments.
Please sign and share. I am happy to write a short guest article about my time dealing with Work and Income.
Signed, made a small donation and shared.
Papatoetoe Police shooting.
I copped a lot of abuse in here the other day when I said that I had zero sympathy for the 501 killed by Police.
Now we know the crimes he was in bail for. No, not 'domestic violence'. This 501 was a violent criminal pos both in NZ and Australia. His 'mental problems' no doubt stem from his meth abuse In Australia (well documented – just Google search his name). A long history of extreme violence.
Rather he is gone than innocents suffer. Why do so many hand wringung extreme leftists defend these garbage people?
No abuse from me Peter. I think the police were right to shoot him. He did not put down the weapon when instructed and had fired through a window. He was a danger to the public. NZ is a better safer place without him.
No abuse from me either Peter chch, I don't believe the cops had an option in this case, but they're damned if they do or damned if they don't. Perhaps Simon Bridges should go out with the cops in South Auckland one evening – or any city for that matter just to update himself with what the wokester police have to cope with.
Pretty sure of yourself there.
But then you'd have to be. God forbid there could ever have been an intervention point in aus or nz, even years ago, that could have stopped him getting shot the other day.
You can't even refer to him as a human being, just label him with the number of the section that was used to inflict another institutional abuse.
Yes, he did wrong. But I suspect he was a more complex individual than most people who cheer at his killing.
the 501 stuff. Fuck.
Pchch, is this killing regrettable? "Zero sympathy" – OK. "Garbage people" – hmm. But if you're pleased that Turia is dead (say it isn’r so), then you would have a problem, imho.
I agree Peter. Better that this bloke decides on suicide by cop, than he goes on to hurt / maim / kill someone else.
I love it when reactionaries completely ignore wider societal issues in favour of disseminating particular narrow consequences.
I'm sure his mother will say he was a really nice bloke but was a misunderstood guy, and this was really out of character, and he simply got mixed up with the wrong crowd!
Would you have liked him living next door to you? He may have shot through your window then.
Well done, you get the othering award for today.
One person is dead and his children, family & friends will never see him again and you whinge about rather tame ‘abuse’ aimed at you here on TS!? FWIW, I asked two commenters to stop the ad homs.
As with so many unthinking knee-jerk Law & Order proponents, you offer nothing. Shooting is no solution to the underlying problems and causes. Shoot them all? Lock them all up? Or deport them? That will sort things out, won’t it?
Until the root causes are understood, acknowledged, accepted, and acted upon, it will be BAU. Oh, they are complex issues that require more than a simpleton’s reckons.
Our role as individuals here is to be compassionate, while the role of the justice system is to be just.
All too often we get them mixed up.
Showing compassion and trying to help fellow humans in dire need apparently turns people into “hand wringung extreme leftists [who] defend these garbage people” [sic]. Thank God the cancel culture is alive and well to deal with misguided folks like those
Destiny Church leaders justify escaping lockdown
Don't read unless you mute your puke button…
And it keeps going downhill after that….
To go downhill from that point is truly miraculous.
I listened to some of it and she talked about God giving gifts to people and he had gifted her a Tesla . Fancy that she said – a Tesla – and God will gift to you too…
I bet it won't be a Tesla.
so many aucklanders doing that…..so many – escaping to elsewhere rather stay in akl.
the grifting is them tho…..
@ aj (9) … In their greedy, menacing and selfish quest to extract money from the vulnerable, the charlatan Tamaki duo, are prepared to risk the nation's safety and well being, by hitting the road regardless of the present Covid-19 situation, to top up their dubious coffers! The pair of them are vile to their rotten cores. They deserve to be locked away!
How some people can possibly go along with, let alone believe the Tamakis' brainwashing propaganda BS beggars belief. It really does.
"In 2004, Tamaki predicted the Destiny Church would be "ruling the nation" before its tenth anniversary in 2008." Imagine that!
I see they've condemned the government (naturally) for failing to keep Covid out of the country. Of course if Bishop Brian were the Prime Minister covid wouldn't have got into the country in any way shape or form. And if it had it would have been because it was "God's plan."
Actually if you're reading this Brian and Hannah, if it is here it must be by God's design surely.
Maybe its time to tax these people? Same with all churches. It is archaic to still have them not paying tax.
Dirty Politics case close to settlement