Morning all. Juan Guaido here. That's G U A I D O, in case you're not familiar with the spelling. It's now or never. Operation "Enduring Hydrocarbons" enters a new phase today. Our removal of the illegitimate dictatorship starts at 11.30am outside Devonport Naval Base. Get along there Aucklanders! Bring a packed lunch and a rain jacket. Cash donations also welcome.
And how can we tell if someone is Maori enough anyway? Genetic analysis? Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census? Interesting road opening up here, but ought we to head down it?
"Jackson's Labour Māori caucus colleague Peeni Henare went further, actually questioning whether Bennett is Māori enough." Big call, claiming the second question is further than the first, but that's journalists for you. Just questions so far. No actual judgments.
"I haven't seen her contribution to the community for Māori kaupapa, I haven't seen her on the marae, I haven't seen her dry dishes, I haven't seen her do a karanga – therefore, it should be raising the question," he said.
Henare manages to tick at least two boxes with this. Bennett (who is a sad apology for a human being) is condemned as being not Maori enough by a Maori male because she doesn't behave the way he thinks a Maori woman should?
Sigh.
Criticise the woman for her many, many appalling words and actions as a politician, but damning her because she fails to fit his view of an acceptable Maori woman is a sacking offense.
Stupid men. Poor Ardern having to sort this one out.
Turns out there was context that the Newshub report didn't mention: "How does he [Jackson] determine whether the Māori in the Mana in Mahi programme are Māori enough to be counted?" she asked after Jackson said of the 143 clients have been placed in the programme 75 participants – some 52 per cent – identify as Māori."
Henare's position is also expanded here: ""blood quantum simply isn't enough" when it comes to being Māori. "I've always felt that you have to reach a threshold of need, participation and contribution in Māori Kaupapa. If you don't, of course, questions are going to be raised." He said he was "more than happy" for those questions to be raised of anybody who claims to be Māori who does not meet that threshold."
Science would measure the blood quantum via genetics, but he's making it clear that there's a cultural determinant that applies equally. Where does that leave urban Maori who have evolved several generations since the colonial era, many of whom apparently become disconnected from their tribal roots? Required to re-enculture themselves to qualify?
You really believe blood is a cultural construct?? Most people believe it is a physical thing. Science usually proves stuff by examining physical evidence. Seems like Henare is acknowledging that via his reference: "blood quantum". He then includes culture as part of identity.
His application of both/and logic seems appropriate to me, yet your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong. Why do you disagree with Henare?
No, blood is a red liquid that transports oxygen and nutrients through the body.
Social Science studies the shared ideas of social groups and how people identify as part of a group.
Maori get to define what "Maori" is not some racist Pakeha prick like you using racist Pakeha ideas about 'race'. To be Maori a person must have at least one Maori ancestor, as i said, and identify as being Maori. That is the way it has always been.
Henare does not specify any particular amount of 'blood quantum' and i assume this is just a clumsy way of saying some genetic heritage. Henare would be out on a limb with his other comments about level of involvement, i would think. Jackson said as much.
Again i am not sure if you are being stupid or just the shit stirring prick that you obviously are.
Fascinating. Does that mean that Bennett is entitled to decide that neither Jackson nor Henare is a Maori? Would that mean that Peeni Henare would be disqualified from being an MP from a Maori electorate seat and that there will be a by-election?
Or can only a Labour MP make such decisions and what you really mean is that some animals are more equal than others, as Orwell would put it?
Even I know that.You surely don't imagine that you are a unique source of knowledge about such things do you? So what? It doesn't change the question. Who get to make the call? You surely aren't going to tell me that it must be unanimous are you?
Well that is certainly a masterpiece of Delphic ambiguity. Given the names Jackson, Peters, and Bennett it is pretty clear that they had ancestors who indulged in the activity. The jury is still out on whether Henare qualifies.
Willie doesn't believe in being PC. Sometimes I don't like his approach, but this morning on Radionz he made his point for not being a slang-free society. A bit of to-and-fro is more honest than rigid people complying with the conventions as well as the laws, and being completely shuttered and negative in their minds as to the humanity of the situation.
Being PC in everything is just so PC marty mars. Good to keep on going round in circles, keeps you in touch with yourself, otherwise one can get lost in the harakeke.
You lost me but it's all okay – I am a full on card carrying believer in political correctness as it is known by its enemies and kindness as it is known by its friends.
I can say with surety that the word 'race', in all its lurid connotations, is one of my least favorite words – I might even be so bold as to put it at the top of my disliked words or perhaps the bottom depending upon my fickle mood.
Obviously being Maori, as with any ethnicity, involves more than just having a genetic component. My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group.
It is always hard to know if you are as ignorant as you pretend to be.
Being in the kitchen helping with the tremendous hospitality that Maori turn out for their cultural purposes is one of the Maori women's cultural activities, and the men set everything up, dig the hangi and set it up etc.
It's just division of duties for the successful outcome to a function and not to be judged by pakeha women as not coinciding with their efforts to gain mana and standing for women who have had to fight their way up from a lower status than Maori women had.
I was just tacking myself on to the end with a general comment. It sometimes interferes with the flow of the comments and replies to come in late and add something a bit different solkta.
And agree Sacha. I was stating what I have learned from having been on marae helping and been told and observed what I referred to in my earlier comment.
I have been on many marae events and my grandson is of Ngati-porau, of nga whanau me nga hapu o Ngati Porou, so I enjoy Maori serving of food with aroha and hospitality it is very warm.
I speak very little Maori sadly, but my heart is there but the life is to short.
solkta "My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group."
Can I suggest that you have it quite back-to-front.
It isn't that scots have moved away from scottishness, it is that scottishness has moved forward to new places and cultural activities, thus re-defining that ethnicity.
This idea that ethnicity has strict rules around what you have to do to belong grates like fingernails down a chalkboard. It makes no sense and I reject it. Humanity and its ethnicities have long been in a state of flux and change – immigrating, colonising, going to McDonalds, it never stops moving.
Similarly with maori – it shouldn't be that you have to conduct yourself in certain ways to be that ethnicity, it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity. This is, after all, how that ethnicity and its current cultural activities came into being in the first place…
it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity.
No it should be whatever Maori do as a group. Otherwise you are just talking about 'race'.
I do get your point that culture is not static, but it has to be morphing from one set of parameters to another. Maori culture is obviously different from what it was pre European contact, but it is still distinct from that of other groups.
But it is being done as part of that group – that was my point and why I said “whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori”. Whatever one does with one's life is as part of that group. I don't see how one person's life can be separated out from the group like you suggest.
The principle I outline above is the exact same principle used by maori for various claims made under te tiriti for matters which maori previously had no knowledge of, let alone activity in. For example, radio waves.
Willie Jackson is being empty-headed with his claims and he should turn his mind to this principle, which he has supported countless times himself in the past. What a nincompoop
My understanding of the the claims for the Treaty are that the tikanga is not set in stone; the Treaty is a living thing, changing with times, developments, experiences and perceptions. So the Treaty that was perceived at the time that it was signed, is still the Treaty at a different time but with some different perceptions about it. The main one being that there was an agreement made to preserve and maintain elements of life.
As for being a Maori, my understanding is that it is variable. There may be blood relationships, or it may be acceptance relationships through marriage or even if someone has been accepted as one of the group and become a sister or brother by agreement. This then requires that person to fulfill family duties and responsibilities to that group, hapu or marae, if they want to be fully included. It seems to me that it is a matter of heart, and acceptance, and mutual commitment.
But all Maori aren't equal; different groups have their own ways and perceptions. One tribe may not accept someone from another. And one of my relatives is both Maori and pakeha, pale skinned, from a South Island tribe. Some of them are not fully accepting because of the pale skin. When in Northland around 1950, that tribe's similar attitudes were isolating which led to loneliness.
I am a bit confused I am part Irish/Scottish/Greek/English on my mothers' side of the family, however a family DNA test has come back as mainly Iberian ie Spanish/Portugese and on my fathers side I am mainly Scottish & Maori so what does that make me ?
Going off to a tangent my wife has done my family tree. There is a bit of Scottish, Irish and German in me. I had to have a Cataract operation a few years ago and the surgeon said he was going to fit a Zeiss lens in my eye. I can now say honestly that there is a bit of German in me
As an example of how threads can be disrupted and hard to follow when the reply doesn't state the original commenter, you at 8.51 am saying about being ignorant comes below mine at 10.15 am so you were not referring to me.
It seems it was referring to either Dennis F or Rosemary M further up at 3.1…
The non apology – it's attitudes like jackson expresses, those distorted views, that directly contribute to the appalling statistics young Māori are over represented in – disgraceful.
Look, if you want to criticise a Labour MP then do so directly, like Marty. Being so oblique just makes you seem dishonest. And since when have you ever tried to add anything useful to this site?? All you seem capable of is random misunderstandings of the discourse.
You have taken Henare's stupidity and run with it. Above you have said things like:
"your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong."
and
"Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census?"
which is inexcusably ignorant in this day and age. Life is too short to put up with fools polluting the public pool. Such nonsense would be warmly welcomed at Kiwibog.
So explain why you disagree with the Labour minister's reference to the biological part of Maori identity, and why you disagree with applying a metric to that. And why you lack a sense of humour. 🙄
You are so sure of yourself. You might remember the quote about who are fools and who are wise. When you start talking about Maori proving that biologically you are going back over arguments made decades ago, even a century.
If you know so little about Maori matters better you stay out of giving your opinions – you haven't got up to first base and need to go away, read up and learn. Everybody needs to do some homework for themselves so they can discuss from the point of view of some appropriate authority.
So does that mean you didn't notice that the Labour minister referred to "blood quantum"?? Or do you think blood is not biological??
Did you also not notice that I mostly asked questions? Which of my opinions are you actually referring to? Did you notice that respondents failed to address what he actually said? Do you think such evasion of political comments is what this website ought to feature, and if so, why?
If you get my drift, it ain't about me at all, no matter how hard some respondents are trying to spin it. It's about the news!
It is a good thing for a pakeha to sit back and let Maori sort matters out between themselves. Feelings and tikanga, expectations and resentments may have to be worked through and require a truce between them to their mutual resignation.
That is for them to work out. You can't cut perceptions into thin slices and put them under a microscope. Until you are required to make a decision because you are in a position requiring decisions or legality, then it would be discerning of you to remain politely in the background.
If as a pakeha, you have seen the strong feelings that can arise after the death of a parent between the various siblings, you might have an idea of the emotional aspect to be worked out in relationships.
Sacha @ 3.4 & 3.4.1.1 and she seems to be coming from a pc position, which I'm allergic to. I get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, to me it looks and smells like censorship.
So my stance is that I have as much right to comment on cultural & political matters in Aotearoa as anyone else. To the extent that Maori stuff affect us, I comment on that. If it doesn't affect the pakeha world, I don't. This item does.
The reason is that a new bit of political culture was invented by the three Maori MPs involved. You will see that I introduced the topic with a question that goes straight to the heart of it. The significant point is that nobody has answered the question!! I've seen that pattern since I was a child in the 1950s. Adults would freak out when I asked a simple question or made a simple comment. They would literally freeze, with a look of fear in their eyes. Somehow, I was born with an uncanny knack of uttering the unspeakable.
Nowadays they call it speaking truth to power. When the power lies in social convention, speaking truth shatters it, enabling progress. Those in denial of Maori racism voiced against Maori will studiously continue to evade what has actually happened. It's part of the traditional leftist preference for delusion over reality.
Leftists thinking centrists are rightists is way funnier. No wonder they struggle to figure out which way is up. Reality is so hard for such dimwits to grasp, as you keep on demonstrating…
You don't seem to even know what you think you are let alone what you actually are. Yesterday you were claiming to be Green, but while the Green Party dose not generally identify as being Left it very certainly does not identify as being Centrist.
I've told the history of that here several times over the past few years. The Values Party schism in the mid-seventies was caused by the leftists and centrists being unable to do consensus.
I was too radical that decade to join either group. I persuaded the Greens to go left in '91 when Jeanette Fitzsimons led a session on the question at our conference. My reasoning was that the Bolger govt had already captured several leading environmentalists, so we had to form a viable alternative. Nobody wanted Labour (due to Rogernomics).
There's always been many in the Green Party who prefer non-alignment, but the conference decision was pre-MMP and we had a binary choice only. Russel Norman's straw poll at the 2015 conference (65 in the session) showed the leftists were half the number who put their hands up for the traditional Green position (neither left nor right). I saw that happen.
The problem with people like you & Sacha is the perennial one of always operating from the position of ignorance, while pretending to know stuff. Sad the way the leftist belief system makes many adherents delusional.
He likes to pretend that he has some significant history with the Greens but from what he has said on here it seems that had some involvement in the very early years but then left as he was not a good fit at all. The crap that he has talked today about 'race' would have gone down like a lead balloon both then and now, as would most of his ramblings.
yet they are centrist…as are their voter base…a more middle class party would be hard to find…their one saving grace is in danger of disappearing altogether.
The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's. Winston is Centrist and he is currently fucking up most Green policy objectives.
Centrist does not mean "middle class" and Left does not mean exclusively working class. Karl Marx was very middle class for fucks sake.
The Greens come to the same place as the Left on social policy, they just get their by a different route.
"The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's."
Are they?..and even if they are Labour are hardly 'left' as they subscribe to neoliberalism…as stated the Greens are , and are supported by the middle class as their voter demographic displays…but you keep telling yourself otherwise, it may come true one day
To explain it another way, when Greens say they are not Left or Right they mean that they don't really fit on that spectrum. Centrism fits on that spectrum, right in the middle of it.
The Greens have had a policy for Capital Gains Tax longer than Labour and still do. The Greens are responsible through their agreement for the welfare changes announced today. I can't be fucked giving you more examples but there are many. You can go to the relevant websites and compare.
Yes Labour are not as left as they once were, the Greens are further left, if measured on that spectrum, like i said. Left and Right are only relevant to the context so in NZ Parliamentary Politics today Labour are still left of centre.
And also like i said Centrist does not mean middle class. Have you not heard of Karl Marx? There are huge numbers of lefty middle class people. There is also a significant number of working class people who vote National.
I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change…if they fuck this opportunity up they will never see my vote again….the question you have to ask yourself is how typical am i?
It will be Winston who fucks the Climate Act if anybody. The Greens could bring the gummint down over it, but that would lead to a hugely messy election and probably a Nact led gummint.
No you are not typical of a Green voter. There is about 6% of the vote that is core Green. After that they mostly take votes from Labour. When labour could not find an effective leader people walked to the Greens, and then back again when they finally did.
lf i have voted Green the previous 3 elections im part of that core vote…you cannot know how typical my attitude is…and nor can the party…time will tell.
When i say 6% are "core Green voters" i mean voters who support the Green Kaupapa. By saying I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change you are making it very clear that you are not a core Green voter.
I have voted for them in every election where they have been an option as i have always supported most of their policies.
oh dear you are truly delusional…the Greens received approx 6.3% of the vote last election , or 162000 party votes….whats membership?..id suggest significantly less. probably around 10% of that figure….thats your Green Kuapapa, not the votes.
Had you considered that you might be part of the 0.3%.
The Greens peaked at i think 12.6% in the polls and that was directly after Metiria's speech. They picked up some lefty vote on the back of that. Then Metiria lost control of the narrative and Ardern became Labour leader and went hard on Climate Change, Fresh Water and Child Poverty. 4-5% (percentage points) went back to Labour and 1-2% of swing voters got the frights. The Greens dropped back to mostly their core vote.
If you think you can sort Climate Change without caring about people then best you buy a gun. You will need it. France has started down that road.
In my opinion Paula Bennet is Maori when it suits her, and not when it doesn't.
That is, she plays on her heritage when there is a political advantage to be made from it. But mostly ignores it.
Paula Bennet raises the objection that being Maori is not defined by being able to speak Maori.
And she is right.
And I know that for many with all the will in the world, it can prove to hard to pick up the reo, especially if you have been raised exclusively in the Pakeha tradition.
Bennet has a point there.
But for anyone who ever wanted to get in touch with their Maori Heritage, surely Paula Bennet has had more than enough opportunity to learn Te Reo, that is, if she wanted to.
I mean, despite being in a relatively well paid job, (opposition MP), with relatively little to do and able to set her own agenda. And presumably, with the pick of professional support, able and willing to walk her through it. (If she chose to avail herself of it) has she ever tried to learn the language?
Has she ever taken the time, has she even ever made the effort?
I think if she did, it would be the making of her.
"Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has been called upon to lead the war against killer robots." What, harangue them to death??
"Mary Wareham, advocacy director of the Arms Division of Human Rights Watch, is leading the global campaign to ban fully autonomous weapons… Wareham said New Zealand is the only country in the world to have a Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control, referring to Peters. Asked if the world needs Peters to lead the war on killer robots, Wareham responded: "Certainly. I think he would be an excellent leader.""
Well, okay, Aotearoa leading the way is excellent, but Winston probably ought to delegate the task to Arnie – who knows the scene inside-out. He said he'd be back, eh? Now's the time!
Wtf? Haven't they seen those Terminator movies? A war against killer robots is a terrible idea! Humans are squishy and easily disabled, no match for robots at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to just not build the killer robots in the first place?
"The Justice Select Committee is currently considering a bill to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which would review convictions and sentences and decide whether to refer them to the appeal court. Currently, if someone believes they have suffered a miscarriage of justice they can apply to the Governor-General, who seeks advice from the Minister of Justice, for exercise of the Royal prerogative of mercy that can be used to grant a free pardon or to refer a conviction or sentence back to an appeal court."
"Nigel Hampton QC, forensic science consultant Dr Anna Sandiford and investigator Glynn Rigby, submitted for the New Zealand Public Interest Project. They endorsed the idea of a Commission, but urged caution with appointing judges and suggested adding a provision to allow an appeal after death. In their experience miscarriages of justice usually revolved around poor or inadequate investigation, forensic science, legal defence and sometimes overzealous prosecutors."
I'm pleased to see this group lobbying for a body more representative of the public. The legal establishment has often victimised people in the past. I first suggested a public accountability mechanism in 1991 when I wrote the second draft of the Greens justice policy, as convenor of their justice policy working group. Andrew Little's proposal is a weaker alternative, but it will improve the current system. Keeping the judges out of the review group would serve the public interest, but allowing one or two to participate as advisors could also work well.
A USA Judge who did much to limit miscarriages of justice and undertook legislation that advanced the rights of the poor, black community, has just died. I hadn't heard of this great man so I am passing on his obituary so those who care for what he did can honour Judge Damon Keith's achievements and we can seek to emulate them.
Gluten, soy and GMO, and most importantly meat free burgers are on sale from 7 May at BF 🙂 I can't wait to try it out. Don't think I'll be able to totally eliminate meat (on a keto diet) but every bit counts.
There's no need for meat-free burgers in NZ. Much of our livestock is grass-fed on land that wouldn't be suitable for growing crops anyway. Or should be…
Is plant burger firm Beyond Meat really worth $1.5bn? The US firm, which counts actor and environmentalist Leonardo DiCaprio among its investors, will now offer its shares at between $23 and $25.
The decision to increase the price from the original range of $19 and $21 indicates strong demand for the shares.
But Beyond Meat is loss-making and does not know when it will report a profit.For its most recent financial results for 2018, Beyond Meat said losses hit $29.9m, slightly below the previous year but above a $25.1m loss in 2016…
Beyond Meat is one of a number of so-called "unicorn" companies – which are privately-backed firms worth $1bn or more – to sell their shares to public investors this year.
While we discuss politics and racism there is 'humanism' to argue for – us against technology and its weaponisation and the increasing trend of technology to destroy our lives, gradually or suddenly.
Dennis F at 4 also refers to this.
And also the denial of rights and robbing of land and livelihood from people inconveniently positioned on land with uses for other people. 19th century the Highland Clearances in Scotland – large scale sheep farming over-turning the people’s smallholding-croft system.
I just watche a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
I can't find the piece I read the other day, which would have been mainstream and not dubious, but I had a google, too.
I found a few things that were roughly stating the same thing, though some looked dodgy, the like 12 posts to back their questionable science, so I won't advocate for them here.
I'm happy to be corrected by proper scientists and science, so if their consensus is termites aren't heavier methane producers than cows, so be it.
A few sites put the emissions of termites way above the 20 million tonnes figure, but note the mounds and underground networks act as filters.
Either way, I'll still eat meat, but not bug meat.
Yeah, nah, I'd rather eat that fake crap in the supermarket which costs twice as much as cow mince but with only half the flavour… Or look at rabbit, dog and cat as a cheaper, tasty alternative.
The pigs are still gonna be in trouble though. I'm only gonna give up bacon when they pry it out of my cold dead jaws.
Cats- nah. Turning sunshine into protein in plants is horribly inefficient. Taking another step and running that plant material through an animal to make meat protein just compounds the inefficiency. Taking yet another step and running animal protein through an obligate carnivore to produce slightly different animal protein compounds the inefficiency yet again.
Yeah, I can't quite get up any enthusiasm for eating invertebrates either.
While I eat very little meat, I really can't be arsed with the effort and planning needed to get the full complement of nutrients needed from a fully vege diet. But I'll be quite happy to eat vat-grown animal cells processed into burgers and sausages and mince.
Thinking about it (close to dinner time, after all), I've squished many a land bug, and none of them looked like raw prawns on the inside. Unless the goey innards turn solid when cooked, like an egg does?
Im happy to take a steak or burger for the team to get rid of all those cows, but veggies and veganauts, you animal lovers, if you plan to get rid of all the cows, are you happy to pull the trigger? And if you're not hypocritical about it, ignoring the obvious cognitive dissonance, why can't I eat what you slaughter?
Currently the methane concentration in the atmosphere is around 1900 ppb. Prior to the early 1800s it was very steady at around 700 ppb. The extra methane is responsible for somewhere around 1/4 to 1/3 the global temperature rise since the 1800s, and it's all due to human activities of various kinds, including vastly increasing the global numbers of ruminant livestock.
Yes, it's true that methane oxidises to CO2 and water in the atmosphere, with a half life of around 8 to 12 years. (Half life means every molecule emitted has a 50/50 chance of surviving one half life,and a 1:4 chance of surviving two half lives, 1:8 chance of surviving 3 etc). But while that molecule of CO2 exists in the atmosphere, it is over 100 times more effective at trapping heat then the CO2 molecule it will oxidise into.
The relatively rapid decay of methane means there's a fairly good "bucket with a hole in it" analogy for thinking about methane concentration. Imagine a bucket with a hole in it, and a tap filling it with water. The water flowing in represents the methane we're dumping into the atmosphere, the height of the water in the bucket represents methane concentration in the atmosphere, and the water flowing out represents methane getting oxidised to CO2 and water in the atmosphere. The flow of water out of the hole is a bit responsive to the water level, it flows a bit faster with a high water level, a bit slower with a low water level.
Things were fairly well in balance up to around the 1800s at a fairly low tap flow, and a fairly low level in the bucket, and a low outflow. But when we turned the tap up by finding and burning fossil fuels and increasing agriculture all across the world, the water level rose dramatically. A big part of that turning the tap up was hugely increasing numbers of ruminant livestock. Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
Yep and stop using vehicles with internal combustion engines and oil derivatives to make tyres, so rail with steel wheels and electric locomotives is our future.
What is it with you that every topic needs to somehow get turned to trains? Was your childhood spent desperately wanting a train set to play with and you never got one for Christmas?
No Cleangreen wanting trains is because of a large part of adulthood petitioning the government to grow some brains, and do the transport thing in a way that is sustainable and provides amenities that Vogel realised in early colonial times..
If you took any real interest in what people on this blog are really on about apart from just a way to keep you from ennui you would know this. I think you come from the USA and no doubt things are different there.
You don't get anything done in NZ unless you are prepared to keep on about it for a couple of decades. If you ever want anything done that is good for the country Andre, don't ever think that you will get it for Christmas because Santa will see how good and right you are. Down here in the Southern Hemisphere you have to make sure that you keep asking because your notes to Santa often get mislaid.
Wags asked about methane cycling in and out of the atmosphere and cows as a part of that cycle. Termites and methane is clearly a closely related topic. So WTF is the story with hijacking the thread to go completely off-topic to trains? It makes trying to follow the original topic and related topics very disjointed.
Especially when it's so easy to just start a new separate thread about trains. Nobody is going to object to that. But thread hijacking is a really good way to get people's backs up.
You said Andre: Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
That caught Cleangreens attention because he always reads your good comments, and then he thought of other ways to help the CC count of whatever go down plus the extra global heating reducing, and then he put in the bit about how using trains would be beneficial for that. So all quite easy to follow when you see the activist mind at work.
Trains to Gisborne and the usefulness they will have towards saving fuel and carbon credits and so on are top of the bill for Cleangreen and rightly so being more important than lots of things we discuss.
And because we have to say everything to NZ politicians and planners a thousand times before they ever hear of the idea, Cleangreen is just bringing the count up.
"Another visit from the thread purity police, lol." – yes, it's a thing.
Events seem to conspire to derail my life – why should a blog thread (on Open Mike) be any different?
Someone else will have commented (over the years), but why is it "Open Mike" (< 2 million Google matches) rather than "Open Mic" (> 17 million Google matches)? English/US difference?
[Agree that ‘thread derailing’ is poor etiquette, so apologies for derailing the derail, just for a bit of fun.]
Had just finished work and had a cantankerous manager have a crack.
I picked up a touch of snark in yr comment and that was what I was responding to.
To draw a long bow, those cows are generally about 'coz A, the are dairy and their milk leaves by truck or B, they are beef cattle and their protein leaves by truck.
You can't have your methaney livestock in isolation.
Remember, the (primary) problem is heat absorption. Because methane is 20 times more greenhousey than CO2 that part of the cycle increases global warming.
But also, some fertiliser comes from fossil sources, so reintroduces more carbon compounds into the atmosphere in addition to the cycle.
And lastly, there's the "what was the land used for previously" question: burning the rain forest to make a cattle farm releases most of the carbon that was sunk into tree mass.
So the idea of "continuous cycle" is true to a point, but contributions to GW are often not as simple as that concept would suggest.
It's a factoid that's been taken out of its relevant context and used to hokey up some special pleading for some that don't want to take responsibility and make changes.
As a standalone assertion, that methane rapidly oxidises to CO2, and that plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere to be eaten by cows that then belch methane back into the atmosphere in a continuous cycle, is correct. And it is also correct that if numbers of cows do not change (and other methane emissions do not change) then methane levels in the atmosphere won't change.
But the context needed to understand the significance of that cycle is very important. First, methane levels now are nearly triple what they were throughout all previous human history, and the methane levels we have now are incompatible with maintaining a livable climate.
The massive increase in ruminant livestock numbers we now have over what was present through all previous human history is a significant contributor to the extremely high methane levels we now have. Reducing ruminant livestock numbers is one of the easiest steps we could take to reduce methane levels.
A quick Google revealed a recent (2019) paper (in a well-respected scientific journal) that suggests scientists still don't know enough to accurately predict trends in atmospheric methane concentrations.
Interpreting contemporary trends in atmospheric methane
Alexander J. Turner, Christian Frankenberg, and Eric A. Kort
PNAS (Feb 2019) 116 (8) 2805-2813.
"We show that net-zero cost emission reductions can lead to a declining atmospheric burden, but can take three decades to stabilize."
I put up a video about cows, methane and surprise, got accused of being a denialist
I realize this is a touchy subject, but people probably misunderstood where I was coming from, I’m not a scientist or have vast in-depth knowledge of climate change.
I posted a video which I thought was interesting as it was saying something completely different from what I’ve seen in the media and thought I’d put it up here and get feedback.
Asking questions doesn’t make one a denialist.
Now about methane
Methane concentrations have increased from around 775 parts per billion in pre-industrial times to around 1800 now, due entirely to human activities
In the video methane and ruminants(cows) was shown to be a natural cycle where methane was endlessly recycled and nothing changed and everything was kept in balance, obviously if more cattle are added then the amount of methane would increase.
So I went and had a look to see if cow/beef numbers have increased massively in the past 50 years and surprisingly they’ve been rather static.
That also got me thinking pre-industrial there must have been a shit tonne of natural ruminants like Bison, Deer etc. and before them big animals like mammoths which would have been belching out methane by the tonne as well as many wetlands which have been destroyed due to farming
The question the author was trying to answer was why methane levels didn’t start to rise until the industrial age.
According to the author One reason methane levels remained flat was that cattle and other ruminants (wild and domesticated) lived in intact grassland ecosystems and helped build healthy soils that contain soil microbes called methanotrophs that reduce atmospheric methane (2). Thus maintained grassland ecosystems function as methane sinks, and bank as much as 15% of the earth’s methane (3) Tillage for crops reduces the soil’s capacity to bank methane (as does exposed uncovered soil) plus also releases carbon into the atmosphere (4). Use of synthetic fertilizers also adversely impacts soil methanotrophs (5). Glyphosate in no tilled systems according to industry funded research doesn’t impact soil microbial activity. Though research by other researchers contradicts this industry perspective and details how herbicides like glyphosate adversely change the makeup of soil microbes (6).
If that is the case because all our dairy and beef is grass fed we do not actually have that much of an impact on global methane levels? should we even be paying carbon taxes?
Or if we do shouldn’t it be more vegetable growers and not so much farmers?
The author points the finger more at natural gas and writes.
Meanwhile the methane from fracking and natural gas extraction, transportation and refining, in general, apparently has been underestimated significantly maybe by 5 times or 500% per some recent studies on this topic (9). Not to mention China is massively increasing their use of natural gas and fracking. Coincidentally, the largest increases in methane levels occurred in the 1960’s when natural gas use increased significantly- nearly ten-fold.
Oh god we have seen that shit on here before. I'm sure it was you who posted it too. It is Friday night, give us a break for fucks sake.
Robin Grieve, Act candidate for Whangarei. Act, the only party that has ever argued that buffer zones between GE and organic farms were viable. My suggestion was napalm every 30 seconds.
<i>I just watched a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
the problem is that there are multiple sources of methane other than ruminants…a major contributor is the gas industry…which is unrelated to the flow argument and growing
It's never simple bwaghorn – about natural processes.
What do you mean they are rapidly planting the hills killing off our way of life. Do you mean that hillside pastures are being taken up by tree plantations? Pinus radiata?
I understand that the idea of planting widely allowing grazing between once the trees have got established is probably the way to go. But don't know for sure, and if so what species? Is it possible for us to not have pinus but another one kinder to the soil.
Perhaps they should be planting big bamboos – not keeping on the old mousewheel of pinus radiata because – fast and it's what we know. Couldn't there be some R&D money to help with trials for diversification that would be studied and published benefitting all with the information.
I understand that the idea of planting widely allowing grazing between once the trees have got established is probably the way to go. But don't know for sure, and if so what species? Is it possible for us to not have pinus but another one kinder to the soil.
This was put to bed with a lot of trials by the old Forest Service in the 70's.
Result – crap trees due to the wide spacing leading to too much branch / canopy and crap pasture due to the shading and water draw by the trees. I think most of the trials were abandoned after less than 15 years, at least the one I had a little to do with at Tikitere was.
That is interesting. So can't put trees in for plantation purposes wide spread. What if the trees were like tagstase? and the animals could both graze grass and the tree, and get shade, and the farmer have some advantage from carbon credits from the tree left in situ? Shade is going to be something that cannot be ignored with the advent of CC becoming hot as hell out there, which would be a variable not high at the time of the trials you referred to.
What do you say about the scenario I put together for possible adoption in the coming years. I guess the old Forest Service in the 70's was still steeped in p.radiata, so different tree – different result perhaps. And edible. And maybe more opportunity for understorey growth with other tree types as I think pinus kills and dries off undergrowth.
Heard of an area that has lost 100 000 stock units to trees lately . At roughly 1 job per 5000 stock units thats a massive whole in the community. Less kids in schools less partners doing other work . Etc .
That's a giant change of finances. Not much coming in for 20-30 years so who would be parking so much finance in the trees for that long, and they might burn down. Would they get insurance in the first place?
Even when foreign money or aggregation of farms happens, there are managers and workers required. Going into trees like that will certainly take people out of the area.
Professor Sir John Curtice, "polling expert": "There have been some remarkably good figures for the Greens so far, who on average are running at 12% of the vote in the wards that they are fighting, up 5 points on their performance in last year's local elections."
Update from Curtice: "Note that in contrast to the position for Labour, compared with 2015 the Conservative vote is down much more heavily in the south of England (by 8 points) as compared with the north of England (by 2 points). If this pattern continues then Tory losses in the south of England tomorrow could still prove to be quite substantial."
Labour are tanking at the moment, with 2 councils lost and -50 councillors.
They may yet, even though polling at around 30%, win a general election, though it'll be more down to Farrage and his brexit it party bleeding support from the Tories at about 18% nationally.
The lib dems are the nights winners, so far, which may also impede on labour in those 3 way seats they need to win to take a majority at parliament.
Welfare working group report just released. Perfectly reasonable recommendations but given this report only exists as part of the confidence & supply agreement with the Greens and would never have happened otherwise, it's safe to say the vast majority of it will be watered down, delayed or totally ignored, especially the raising of the core benefit rates.
Keep questioning I think and they won't be able to get away with a watered down version. It sounds so promising that i feel tremendously hopeful. If there is a spark of old Labour to be dug around and watered, it might send up shoots and flower. A thing of beauty and a joy forever.
Beneficiaries who work will be able to earn more before their pay is docked, and the sanction against solo mothers who don't name the father of their children will be scrapped, as the government begins its overhaul of the welfare system.
If bennies can earn much more, then they can get themselves onto the work train when possible. If they can get child sitting during school holidays then they can work that into an earning scheme that will provide those needed shoes, the sports gear, the inclusion of their kids in events at school.
And not naming the father gives them the option of not including a ne'er-do-well into the family life the mother is trying to build. He may know himself but won't have the department after him for money and it is better if the aim is to help the mother to become self-sustaining which is a good role model for the youngsters. Not having a druggie, alcoholic or play-acting father around, will make for stability and will be likely to cut into the stats for domestic violence. There is choice involved as to whether to have occasional visits or not if the father is a degenerate or just unreliable. It is a blow to a child if a visit is set up and the child is ready and waiting, and the father doesn't turn up, or is drunk and disorderly, or is subtly demeaning of the mother’s efforts so the child is left idolising the idea of him as generous, and the mother as being unworthy, and not to be fully loved which would cut into the mutual support that builds good family ties and relationships.
National bereft of effective positive ideas as usual with their usual expressions of negativity. Louise Upston with this one:
"National disagrees with the bulk of the report, which would see fewer obligations imposed on beneficiaries and fewer incentives to get back into work.
They still haven't caught up with womens lib yet. To them it was university women's lib, so they could grab the well-paying jobs when available that came with perks like maternity leave. Ordinary women were neither to share this bounty, or receive the respect due to mothers and partners trying to bring up healthy children, with values of honesty and kindness, with hope for a skilled job at a decent wage. 'Dragging up your kids' is the disparaging view of better-off National looking at lower income people's efforts, and they fund to match and perpetuate that malign view.
@Grey- my view of welfare does tend to be through the illness/disability lens, ie the one that rarely gets mentioned. Incentives to work mean absolutely nothing to a lot of us, but being able to pay for medical treatment without starving, does. That's not to say I'm not interested in what else is happening in general, but we don't tend to rate much of a mention. Besides, it's hard for the bashers to have a direct attack at us so no air time in the media either. I wish I could join you in feeling hopeful. But history dictates that, even if a few positive changes occur over the next few years, as soon as the government changes again- and being NZ it inevitably will- the first thing the Nats will do is attack welfare.
Something slightly amusing though- I noticed Stuff had opened their comments section for this story, so I posted a comment reminding them about their new policy of not opening stories about beneficiaries for comments, and was the temptation to let back in the bashers too much for them? Funnily enough the comments are now closed 🙂
After reading your and Rosemarys comments i realise that I don't know much about the disability allowance. The welfare net has been set far too high for anyone to be able to fall into it for years. The stupid way that supplements etc were set up should have been adjusted for inflation at the beginning and often were not.
Anyway here is a cute little UK ad from the past about finding work that the increased front line staff might copy.
We might get something in the Budget but Ms Sepuloni doesn't sound promising. 'Staged implementation' makes me think of a performance of Shakespeares 'All's Well that Ends Well' .
Some improvement…getting rid of the sanction for solo mums who don't name the father and increase the amount earned before abatement but….sweet fa for anyone else.
However, Sepuloni said the Government had decided against a recommended move to increase benefit levels by up to 47 per cent immediately so Kiwis could "live in dignity", and was instead "looking at a staged implementation" of change.
It would also allocate $76.3 million for 263 new frontline staff with the sole "focus of helping more people into meaningful and sustainable work".
So, it looks like more of the arbeit mach frei that the Nats were so fond of.
When I saw the headline you linked to Kay I thought of you. I've said this before, but when Peter graduated from the Supported Living Payment to the Super we were actually able to save a few dollars while living almost full time in our Bus and largely free camping.
That is how much difference there is between the SLP and Super.
Maybe they're saving something for those on SLP as a Budget day headline?
@Rosemary, I'd like to think so but it seems pretty clear they're not going to increase any of the core benefits. The one thing they could do (and it wouldn't upset most of the voters either) is getting rid of that pathetic cap on the disability allowance, $62/week or whatever it is now. It hasn't been lifted for years. That would help a lot without having to roll things over onto TAS etc, minimise paperwork.
My rent is now $30/week more than my core benefit so I'm existing entirely off the supplements which I'm maxed out on, and I doubt I'm alone…
Key recommendations of the welfare expert advisory group:
Increase main benefits by between 12 percent and 47 percent
Remove some benefit obligations and sanctions
Fully index all income support payments and thresholds annually to movements in average wages of prices, whichever is the greater
Index accommodation supplement rates to movements in housing costs
Consider introducing a living alone payment that contributes to the additional costs of adults living alone
Reform Working for Families
Reform supplementary assistance and hardship assistance so they are adequate
Ensure sufficient resourcing for frontline services
Help recipients of sole parent support return to part-time work when their youngest child is six years old
Prioritise a reduction in outstanding benefit debt through sustainable repayments and minimise the creation of overpayments, including reviewing recoverable hardship assistance grants
Instigate a cross-government approach to managing debt to government agencies
Seems the government has largely ignored pretty much all of the suggestions.
Mostly interested in happy- clappy headline grabbers.
You sound very religious Gabby. I guess we will all give thanks and prayers for their happy future together, both trying to multi-task, in a balanced modern relationship.
Do you mean so he can get his parliamentary super? I think Winston is so super that has been allocated long ago. And I think he deserves it as he has kept on making politics look vital and meaningful, at least some;times.
"Once you get on to the third or more sequential contract, the person who's on the one-year contract that has been sequentially agreed starts to have an ongoing expectation of employment,"Kiely says.
Except those pesky housing targets won't be met, the trees won't be planted and those child poverdy markers going the wrong direction isn't anything to be pleased about
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.
Thanks Cinny and Anne, for some decency. I am missing veteuviper and find much of the comment on here a little depressing and very sour, so I am on holiday for a while from the Standard, and I notice a few other absences. Cheers.
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.
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Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
Te Rangi e tu nei (The sky above us) Te Papa e takoto nei (The land beneath us) Tatou katoa te hunga ora (To us all the living) Tena koutou katoa (Greetings) ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
Christopher Luxon: hurdles The little man from National jumps hurdles in his sleep. He’s quite good at it in his dreams and even though the reality doesn’t quite match up you have to give him credit for getting up every morning and crashing into the very first hurdle of the ...
Comment: It was a good two hours into the conversation when Tyrone Marks raised the most basic of questions when I first spoke to him in 2017. “They didn’t explain the things they did to me. They never told me why. And they still haven’t. There’s no explanation for it. ...
Madeleine Chapman rounds out Death Week on The Spinoff with a final recommendation. You can read all of our Death Week coverage here. Nothing forces you to reflect on your life and relationships quite like proximity to death. For those whose nearest and dearest have died, there are reasonably obvious ...
Whitney Greene takes us through her life in television, including the TV character she’d like to plan a funeral for and her cow lung catastrophe on The Traitors NZ. “If the phone rings, I have to answer it,” Whitney Greene from The Traitors NZ warns as we begin our My ...
Maddie Ballard reviews the debut essay collection of Pōneke writer Flora Feltham.In ‘The Raw Material’, the longest essay in Flora Feltham’s dazzling debut collection, the author heads out for a run after hours of weaving and sees the world turn to textile. “Pounding along the Parade, I saw the ...
Andy Christiansen, one half of the experimental rock-pop duo TRiPS, shares the tunes inspiring the band’s perfect weekend and new release. “Good speakers, good food, good music, no distractions”: that’s all you need to enjoy the psychedelic stylings of TRiPS, a new band formed by Fly My Pretties’ Barnaby Weir ...
Celebrating our quadrennial opportunity to become experts in a bunch of sports we never normally watch.The games of the XXXIII Olympiad are upon us. Paris will host this year’s showcase of sporting and athletic prowess, which means some late-night and early-morning viewing for us in Aotearoa.But what sports ...
The photograph is striking and beautiful, but also disturbing – a reminder that my love for John was often entangled in shame.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.In the spring of 1980, in Dunedin, shortly before his death, someone took a photograph ...
Get to know Babushka, our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Babu’s humans, Jo and Isabel, for their support. Dog name: Babushka (Babu for short) Age: 2Breed: Border Collie X poodleIf rescued, ...
Pacific Media Watch A Lebanese photojournalist who was severely wounded during an Israeli air strike in south Lebanon carried the Olympic torch in Paris this week in honour of her peers who have been wounded and killed in the field — especially in Gaza and Lebanon. Christina Assi of Agence ...
The first report in a five-part web series focused on the 15th Triennial Conference of Pacific Women taking place in the Marshall Islands this week.SPECIAL REPORT:By Netani Rika in Majuro Women continue to fight for justice 70 years after the first nuclear tests by the United States caused ...
Christopher Luxon has joined with Australia and Canada's leaders in voicing support for US President Joe Biden's ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The 2022 election brought the “teal wave” into parliament. The next election will test whether teals, who occupy what were Liberal seats, and other independents can maintain their momentum. Joining us on the Podcast ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Musgrave, Senior lecturer in Pharmacology, University of Adelaide Pixavri/Shutterstock A major Federal Court class action has been dismissed this week after Justice Michael Lee ruled there was not enough evidence to prove the weedkiller Roundup causes cancer. Plaintiff Kelvin ...
In The Week in Politics: politicians have to decide what to do about child abuse, Health NZ is booked in for major surgery and Darleen Tana returns. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University Mainstream media are surprisingly muted at the prospect of the world’s most powerful nation being led for the first time by a woman – specifically a woman of colour, Vice President Kamala ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca Bennett, PhD Student, Associate Research Fellow, Deakin University Last week, a drone delivery company called Wing (owned by Google’s parent company, Alphabet) started operating in Melbourne. Some 250,000 residents in parts of the city’s eastern suburbs can now order food from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Foo, Lecturer, Physiotherapy, Monash University pikselstock/Shutterstock In the next 40 years in Australia, it’s predicted the number of Australians aged 65 and over will more than double, while the number of people aged 85 and over will more than triple. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katrina Grant, Research Associate, Power Institute for Arts and Visual Culture, University of Sydney Jonas Åkerström’s 1790 work, Session of the Accademia dell’Arcadia on August 17 1788.Nationalmuseum/Cecilia Heisser Ever wondered whether you’d have a better chance at winning an Olympic gold ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Jones, Program Lead, Food Governance, George Institute for Global Health wavebreakmedia/Shutterstock On Thursday, Australian and New Zealand food ministers at state, federal and national levels met to thrash out what’s next for health star ratings on packaged foods. Now, after ...
The Abuse in Care report found many Pacific survivors lost their connections to their culture and language, resulting in trauma that has been carried from generation to generation. ...
In the regulatory review, ECC intends to suggest that ERO focus on curriculum delivery reviews rather than the Ministry, because it’s not efficient or effective to have two agencies with radically different approaches climbing over each other. ...
Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori invites the current government to work in partnership with them to develop a pathway forward, including the development of a parallel pathway and meaningful policy and strategy for Kura Kaupapa Māori ...
If you haven’t started watching yet, Tara Ward begs you to reconsider. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. In the world of New Zealand reality television, we have many gems in our crown. There’s the delicious second season of the Celebrity Treasure ...
A new poem by Fiona Kidman. The clothes of the dead I did not keep my mother’s furry red beret for long nor the stringy scarves that adorned the necks of my aunts, although I have kept tag ends of gold, the rings and trinkets they wore, the brooches no ...
The government’s announcement that it will re-open the foreshore and seabed controversy by changing the rules on recognising centuries-old Māori customary title for a third time goes against the rule of law and New Zealand values,” Mr Tipa says. ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Lioness by Emily Perkins (Bloomsbury, $25) Roarrrr! Perkins’ brilliant, award-winning, Marian-Keyes anointed, darkly funny, long ...
The 2004 Act vested ownership of the foreshore and seabed in the Crown, extinguishing any Māori claims to ownership and causing widespread outrage and protests among Māori communities. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Antje Deckert, Associate Professor (Criminology), Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Despite the connection between institutional harm and gang membership made clear in this week’s mammoth royal commission abuse-in care report, the government seems unlikely to soften its “get tough on ...
From Lewis Clareburt in the swimming to the start of the rowing – the first seven days of Paris 2024 promise to be big for New Zealand. There are few events that bring the country together quite like an Olympic Games. Nothing quite matches the excitement of getting up in ...
Groundbreaking local science just showed up in the most surprising of places: the season finale of The Kardashians. In the season five finale of The Kardashians last night, several members of the family gathered together in one of their signature empty, cream-coloured rooms to hear test results that had been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Saikal, Emeritus professor of Middle Eastern and Central Asian Studies, Australian National University The Middle East is on the brink of a possibly devastating regional war, with hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah reaching an extremely dangerous level. Washington has engaged in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Elizabeth Eades, Rheumatologist, Monash University Lupus is an inflammatory autoimmune illness, where the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks itself. Lupus can affect virtually any part of the body, although it most commonly affects the skin, joints and kidneys. The symptoms ...
A law firm that specialises in working with survivors of abuse in State care is disappointed that the Government fails to recognise that its boot camps can be directly compared to previous boot camps from the 1990s and 2000s. ...
Dying is a natural part of life, like updating your Wof or seeing your hairdresser, but without the word-of-mouth recs that help guarantee a good service. What if we changed that? Dying Reviews received by The Spinoff have had the names of organisations redacted while Hospice NZ collects further data. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland Mike Lewinski/Flickr, CC BY On any clear night, if you gaze skywards long enough, chances are you’ll see a meteor streaking through the sky. Some nights, however, are better than others. At ...
Despite having no bars or other designated spaces for lesbians, Auckland boasts a small but mighty lesbian museum. So how did it get here? The past 18 months has brought increasing hostility towards the queer community across Aotearoa. Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull’s anti-trans rally in Tamaki Makaurau last March led to a ...
Poneke Antifascist Coalition has invited Wellingtonians to stand in solidarity with the Kanak people at 12pm today outside the French Embassy in Wellington. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Layton, Visiting Fellow, Strategic Studies, Griffith University Drones are the signature technology of the Ukraine war. A few miniature aircraft designs were used in the war’s early days, but an incredible array of drones have now evolved. There are different types, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Slee, Associate Professor, Clinical Academic Neurologist, Flinders University Francisco Gonzelez/Unsplash Migraine is many things, but one thing it’s not is “just a headache”. “Migraine” comes from the Greek word “hemicrania”, referring to the common experience of migraine being predominantly ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lee White, Senior Lecturer and Horizon Fellow, School of Social and Political Sciences, University of Sydney Australia was slow to introduce minimum building standards for energy efficiency. The Nationwide House Energy Rating Scheme (NatHERS) only came into force in 2003. Older homes ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Steven Sherwood, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Climate Change Research Centre, UNSW Sydney The past century of human-induced warming has increased rainfall variability over 75% of the Earth’s land area – particularly over Australia, Europe and eastern North America, new research shows. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Heynen, Program Coordinator, Sustainable Energy, The University of Queensland A temporary stadium in the Champ-de-Mars, ParisEkaterina Pokrovsky/Shutterstock As Paris prepares to host the Olympic and Paralympic Games, the sustainability of the event is coming under scrutiny. The organisers have promoted ...
A night of karaoke and community in a pub that feels like a memory. You’d barely even notice it, unless you knew to look. Tucked away behind a liquor store on busy Constable Street is the capital’s last great pub. Newtown Sports Bar is an emblem of the pub culture ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Wright, Professor in Marine Geology, University of Canterbury Louise Corcoran/Getty Images The decline in the number of doctoral candidates at New Zealand universities is a worrying sign for the country’s effort to build a knowledge-based economy. Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laurie Berg, Associate Professor, University of Technology Sydney defotoberg/Shutterstock Migrant worker exploitation is entrenched in workplaces across Australia. Tragically, a deep fear of immigration consequences means most unlawful employer conduct goes unreported. On Wednesday, however, the government officially launched a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vaughan Cruickshank, Senior Lecturer in Health and Physical Education, University of Tasmania Paris is about to host its third summer Olympics. While we don’t yet know what the legacy of this year’s games will be, let’s take the opportunity to reflect on ...
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Morning all. Juan Guaido here. That's G U A I D O, in case you're not familiar with the spelling. It's now or never. Operation "Enduring Hydrocarbons" enters a new phase today. Our removal of the illegitimate dictatorship starts at 11.30am outside Devonport Naval Base. Get along there Aucklanders! Bring a packed lunch and a rain jacket. Cash donations also welcome.
Avengers: Endgame for scientists.
Gravitational waves hunt now in overdrive
Is it even possible for Maori to be racist towards each other? Some folks seem to believe it is: "National Party deputy leader Paula Bennett has accused Minister Willie Jackson of racism, saying he questioned whether she's Māori enough." https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/willie-jackson-paula-bennett-locked-in-fierce-racism-row.html
And how can we tell if someone is Maori enough anyway? Genetic analysis? Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census? Interesting road opening up here, but ought we to head down it?
"Jackson's Labour Māori caucus colleague Peeni Henare went further, actually questioning whether Bennett is Māori enough." Big call, claiming the second question is further than the first, but that's journalists for you. Just questions so far. No actual judgments.
"I haven't seen her contribution to the community for Māori kaupapa, I haven't seen her on the marae, I haven't seen her dry dishes, I haven't seen her do a karanga – therefore, it should be raising the question," he said.
Henare manages to tick at least two boxes with this. Bennett (who is a sad apology for a human being) is condemned as being not Maori enough by a Maori male because she doesn't behave the way he thinks a Maori woman should?
Sigh.
Criticise the woman for her many, many appalling words and actions as a politician, but damning her because she fails to fit his view of an acceptable Maori woman is a sacking offense.
Stupid men. Poor Ardern having to sort this one out.
Turns out there was context that the Newshub report didn't mention: "How does he [Jackson] determine whether the Māori in the Mana in Mahi programme are Māori enough to be counted?" she asked after Jackson said of the 143 clients have been placed in the programme 75 participants – some 52 per cent – identify as Māori."
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12227351
Henare's position is also expanded here: ""blood quantum simply isn't enough" when it comes to being Māori. "I've always felt that you have to reach a threshold of need, participation and contribution in Māori Kaupapa. If you don't, of course, questions are going to be raised." He said he was "more than happy" for those questions to be raised of anybody who claims to be Māori who does not meet that threshold."
Science would measure the blood quantum via genetics, but he's making it clear that there's a cultural determinant that applies equally. Where does that leave urban Maori who have evolved several generations since the colonial era, many of whom apparently become disconnected from their tribal roots? Required to re-enculture themselves to qualify?
Science would measure the blood quantum via genetics,
No, Social Science would look at culture. Biology has nothing to do with it other than the person having a Maori ancestor.
You really believe blood is a cultural construct?? Most people believe it is a physical thing. Science usually proves stuff by examining physical evidence. Seems like Henare is acknowledging that via his reference: "blood quantum". He then includes culture as part of identity.
His application of both/and logic seems appropriate to me, yet your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong. Why do you disagree with Henare?
No, blood is a red liquid that transports oxygen and nutrients through the body.
Social Science studies the shared ideas of social groups and how people identify as part of a group.
Maori get to define what "Maori" is not some racist Pakeha prick like you using racist Pakeha ideas about 'race'. To be Maori a person must have at least one Maori ancestor, as i said, and identify as being Maori. That is the way it has always been.
Henare does not specify any particular amount of 'blood quantum' and i assume this is just a clumsy way of saying some genetic heritage. Henare would be out on a limb with his other comments about level of involvement, i would think. Jackson said as much.
Again i am not sure if you are being stupid or just the shit stirring prick that you obviously are.
"Maori get to define what "Maori" is".
Fascinating. Does that mean that Bennett is entitled to decide that neither Jackson nor Henare is a Maori? Would that mean that Peeni Henare would be disqualified from being an MP from a Maori electorate seat and that there will be a by-election?
Or can only a Labour MP make such decisions and what you really mean is that some animals are more equal than others, as Orwell would put it?
It is defined in Tikangi. I use "Maori" in a collective sense. You might not know it but we don't say 'Maoris'.
Even I know that.You surely don't imagine that you are a unique source of knowledge about such things do you? So what? It doesn't change the question. Who get to make the call? You surely aren't going to tell me that it must be unanimous are you?
"The call" was made a very long time ago when Maori first started breeding with Europeans.
Well that is certainly a masterpiece of Delphic ambiguity. Given the names Jackson, Peters, and Bennett it is pretty clear that they had ancestors who indulged in the activity. The jury is still out on whether Henare qualifies.
Doesn't answer the question of course.
Completely agree Rosemary
+ 1 yep – willie is a wanker – he needs to decolonise his mind.
It is Peeni Henare who Rosemary is quoting.
Sorry. Both Peeni and Willie need to decolonise their minds – this 'not Māori' enough stuff is colonisation 101.
Exactly.
Sigh.
I know 'all's fair'etc. but even pakeha me sees this kind of shit as being just what The Man ordered.
I am disappointed they both fell into it.
Willie doesn't believe in being PC. Sometimes I don't like his approach, but this morning on Radionz he made his point for not being a slang-free society. A bit of to-and-fro is more honest than rigid people complying with the conventions as well as the laws, and being completely shuttered and negative in their minds as to the humanity of the situation.
any anti PC person is a wanker too imo – willie loves the sound of his own voice is about his depth
Being PC in everything is just so PC marty mars. Good to keep on going round in circles, keeps you in touch with yourself, otherwise one can get lost in the harakeke.
Oh Marty you are also anti PC all the time !!!!!!
never; – rubbish;
So when will we see you as a PC?
Never in my life.
You lost me but it's all okay – I am a full on card carrying believer in political correctness as it is known by its enemies and kindness as it is known by its friends.
Marty Keep it up and you may join the human race eventually.![smiley smiley](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/regular_smile.png)
I can say with surety that the word 'race', in all its lurid connotations, is one of my least favorite words – I might even be so bold as to put it at the top of my disliked words or perhaps the bottom depending upon my fickle mood.
You'll be fine as long as you remember who ever wins the rat race they're still a rat.
Obviously being Maori, as with any ethnicity, involves more than just having a genetic component. My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group.
It is always hard to know if you are as ignorant as you pretend to be.
Being in the kitchen helping with the tremendous hospitality that Maori turn out for their cultural purposes is one of the Maori women's cultural activities, and the men set everything up, dig the hangi and set it up etc.
It's just division of duties for the successful outcome to a function and not to be judged by pakeha women as not coinciding with their efforts to gain mana and standing for women who have had to fight their way up from a lower status than Maori women had.
I think you meant to reply to Rosemary.
I was just tacking myself on to the end with a general comment. It sometimes interferes with the flow of the comments and replies to come in late and add something a bit different solkta.
And agree Sacha. I was stating what I have learned from having been on marae helping and been told and observed what I referred to in my earlier comment.
Not just women who dry dishes on marae these days. It is being used as a metaphor for humbly serving community.
+ 1 yep
Exactly.
Well said greywarshark.
I have been on many marae events and my grandson is of Ngati-porau, of nga whanau me nga hapu o Ngati Porou, so I enjoy Maori serving of food with aroha and hospitality it is very warm.
I speak very little Maori sadly, but my heart is there but the life is to short.
“It is always hard to know ..”
Ignorance is as ignorance does.
solkta "My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group."
Can I suggest that you have it quite back-to-front.
It isn't that scots have moved away from scottishness, it is that scottishness has moved forward to new places and cultural activities, thus re-defining that ethnicity.
This idea that ethnicity has strict rules around what you have to do to belong grates like fingernails down a chalkboard. It makes no sense and I reject it. Humanity and its ethnicities have long been in a state of flux and change – immigrating, colonising, going to McDonalds, it never stops moving.
Similarly with maori – it shouldn't be that you have to conduct yourself in certain ways to be that ethnicity, it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity. This is, after all, how that ethnicity and its current cultural activities came into being in the first place…
You have it all backwards imo
it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity.
No it should be whatever Maori do as a group. Otherwise you are just talking about 'race'.
I do get your point that culture is not static, but it has to be morphing from one set of parameters to another. Maori culture is obviously different from what it was pre European contact, but it is still distinct from that of other groups.
"No it should be whatever Maori do as a group"
But it is being done as part of that group – that was my point and why I said “whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori”. Whatever one does with one's life is as part of that group. I don't see how one person's life can be separated out from the group like you suggest.
A little more to add:
The principle I outline above is the exact same principle used by maori for various claims made under te tiriti for matters which maori previously had no knowledge of, let alone activity in. For example, radio waves.
Willie Jackson is being empty-headed with his claims and he should turn his mind to this principle, which he has supported countless times himself in the past. What a nincompoop
He's a great little talker Willie J is.
My understanding of the the claims for the Treaty are that the tikanga is not set in stone; the Treaty is a living thing, changing with times, developments, experiences and perceptions. So the Treaty that was perceived at the time that it was signed, is still the Treaty at a different time but with some different perceptions about it. The main one being that there was an agreement made to preserve and maintain elements of life.
As for being a Maori, my understanding is that it is variable. There may be blood relationships, or it may be acceptance relationships through marriage or even if someone has been accepted as one of the group and become a sister or brother by agreement. This then requires that person to fulfill family duties and responsibilities to that group, hapu or marae, if they want to be fully included. It seems to me that it is a matter of heart, and acceptance, and mutual commitment.
But all Maori aren't equal; different groups have their own ways and perceptions. One tribe may not accept someone from another. And one of my relatives is both Maori and pakeha, pale skinned, from a South Island tribe. Some of them are not fully accepting because of the pale skin. When in Northland around 1950, that tribe's similar attitudes were isolating which led to loneliness.
I am a bit confused I am part Irish/Scottish/Greek/English on my mothers' side of the family, however a family DNA test has come back as mainly Iberian ie Spanish/Portugese and on my fathers side I am mainly Scottish & Maori so what does that make me ?
Sounds like a whole heap of B/S IMHO ?
"so what does that make me ?"
Probably a well balanced decent person.
Going off to a tangent my wife has done my family tree. There is a bit of Scottish, Irish and German in me. I had to have a Cataract operation a few years ago and the surgeon said he was going to fit a Zeiss lens in my eye. I can now say honestly that there is a bit of German in me
Genetics is a bit of a lottery.
Your siblings may have common genetic ancestry, but what you end up with could be completely different from what your brothers and sisters have.
Each individual inherits their own unique mix.
solkta
As an example of how threads can be disrupted and hard to follow when the reply doesn't state the original commenter, you at 8.51 am saying about being ignorant comes below mine at 10.15 am so you were not referring to me.
It seems it was referring to either Dennis F or Rosemary M further up at 3.1…
The indent shows plus it says in the "Comments" list which is surely where most start from.
Jackson explains what he meant here:
https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018693391
The non apology – it's attitudes like jackson expresses, those distorted views, that directly contribute to the appalling statistics young Māori are over represented in – disgraceful.
"Interesting road opening up here"
There is nothing remotely interesting or useful about dinosaur racism. Keep it to yourself.
People who think racism ought not to feature in public discussion are rare nowadays. You part of a dying breed??
Anyone who uses the words 'blood' or 'quantum' is not adding anything useful. Back under that rock with you.
Look, if you want to criticise a Labour MP then do so directly, like Marty. Being so oblique just makes you seem dishonest. And since when have you ever tried to add anything useful to this site?? All you seem capable of is random misunderstandings of the discourse.
You have taken Henare's stupidity and run with it. Above you have said things like:
"your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong."
and
"Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census?"
which is inexcusably ignorant in this day and age. Life is too short to put up with fools polluting the public pool. Such nonsense would be warmly welcomed at Kiwibog.
So explain why you disagree with the Labour minister's reference to the biological part of Maori identity, and why you disagree with applying a metric to that. And why you lack a sense of humour. 🙄
Dennis F
You are so sure of yourself. You might remember the quote about who are fools and who are wise. When you start talking about Maori proving that biologically you are going back over arguments made decades ago, even a century.
If you know so little about Maori matters better you stay out of giving your opinions – you haven't got up to first base and need to go away, read up and learn. Everybody needs to do some homework for themselves so they can discuss from the point of view of some appropriate authority.
So does that mean you didn't notice that the Labour minister referred to "blood quantum"?? Or do you think blood is not biological??
Did you also not notice that I mostly asked questions? Which of my opinions are you actually referring to? Did you notice that respondents failed to address what he actually said? Do you think such evasion of political comments is what this website ought to feature, and if so, why?
If you get my drift, it ain't about me at all, no matter how hard some respondents are trying to spin it. It's about the news!
It is a good thing for a pakeha to sit back and let Maori sort matters out between themselves. Feelings and tikanga, expectations and resentments may have to be worked through and require a truce between them to their mutual resignation.
That is for them to work out. You can't cut perceptions into thin slices and put them under a microscope. Until you are required to make a decision because you are in a position requiring decisions or legality, then it would be discerning of you to remain politely in the background.
If as a pakeha, you have seen the strong feelings that can arise after the death of a parent between the various siblings, you might have an idea of the emotional aspect to be worked out in relationships.
Who is the she who was trying to boss you?
Sacha @ 3.4 & 3.4.1.1 and she seems to be coming from a pc position, which I'm allergic to. I get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, to me it looks and smells like censorship.
So my stance is that I have as much right to comment on cultural & political matters in Aotearoa as anyone else. To the extent that Maori stuff affect us, I comment on that. If it doesn't affect the pakeha world, I don't. This item does.
The reason is that a new bit of political culture was invented by the three Maori MPs involved. You will see that I introduced the topic with a question that goes straight to the heart of it. The significant point is that nobody has answered the question!! I've seen that pattern since I was a child in the 1950s. Adults would freak out when I asked a simple question or made a simple comment. They would literally freeze, with a look of fear in their eyes. Somehow, I was born with an uncanny knack of uttering the unspeakable.
Nowadays they call it speaking truth to power. When the power lies in social convention, speaking truth shatters it, enabling progress. Those in denial of Maori racism voiced against Maori will studiously continue to evade what has actually happened. It's part of the traditional leftist preference for delusion over reality.
Dennis,
Bossy bossy you.
Huh?? Felt like she was trying to boss me, actually. Can't you recognise push-back when you see it?
Dennis you are very prominent on blogs and that shows you are very opinionated, and 'that is trying to boss' by sheer inference.![smiley smiley](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/regular_smile.png)
Oh, I see. Could say the same for you, eh? Takes one to know one!![smiley smiley](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/regular_smile.png)
Every so often I get just a wee whiff of eau de fascist off ol' franko.
And yet I've often mentioned here that my political praxis has been anti-fascist since 1970. Funny, eh? 😎
Yes it is funny that you are such a fucktard that you don't understand your own ideas.
Leftists thinking centrists are rightists is way funnier. No wonder they struggle to figure out which way is up. Reality is so hard for such dimwits to grasp, as you keep on demonstrating…
You don't seem to even know what you think you are let alone what you actually are. Yesterday you were claiming to be Green, but while the Green Party dose not generally identify as being Left it very certainly does not identify as being Centrist.
You can imagine how the other Greens felt with a shithead like that in the nest. Fly away, grey cuckoo.
I've told the history of that here several times over the past few years. The Values Party schism in the mid-seventies was caused by the leftists and centrists being unable to do consensus.
I was too radical that decade to join either group. I persuaded the Greens to go left in '91 when Jeanette Fitzsimons led a session on the question at our conference. My reasoning was that the Bolger govt had already captured several leading environmentalists, so we had to form a viable alternative. Nobody wanted Labour (due to Rogernomics).
There's always been many in the Green Party who prefer non-alignment, but the conference decision was pre-MMP and we had a binary choice only. Russel Norman's straw poll at the 2015 conference (65 in the session) showed the leftists were half the number who put their hands up for the traditional Green position (neither left nor right). I saw that happen.
The problem with people like you & Sacha is the perennial one of always operating from the position of ignorance, while pretending to know stuff. Sad the way the leftist belief system makes many adherents delusional.
and yet it is
@sacha
He likes to pretend that he has some significant history with the Greens but from what he has said on here it seems that had some involvement in the very early years but then left as he was not a good fit at all. The crap that he has talked today about 'race' would have gone down like a lead balloon both then and now, as would most of his ramblings.
@pat
Is your reply to me?
Yet they are Left or Centrist??
yet they are centrist…as are their voter base…a more middle class party would be hard to find…their one saving grace is in danger of disappearing altogether.
@Pat
The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's. Winston is Centrist and he is currently fucking up most Green policy objectives.
Centrist does not mean "middle class" and Left does not mean exclusively working class. Karl Marx was very middle class for fucks sake.
The Greens come to the same place as the Left on social policy, they just get their by a different route.
"The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's."
Are they?..and even if they are Labour are hardly 'left' as they subscribe to neoliberalism…as stated the Greens are , and are supported by the middle class as their voter demographic displays…but you keep telling yourself otherwise, it may come true one day
To explain it another way, when Greens say they are not Left or Right they mean that they don't really fit on that spectrum. Centrism fits on that spectrum, right in the middle of it.
@Pat
The Greens have had a policy for Capital Gains Tax longer than Labour and still do. The Greens are responsible through their agreement for the welfare changes announced today. I can't be fucked giving you more examples but there are many. You can go to the relevant websites and compare.
Yes Labour are not as left as they once were, the Greens are further left, if measured on that spectrum, like i said. Left and Right are only relevant to the context so in NZ Parliamentary Politics today Labour are still left of centre.
And also like i said Centrist does not mean middle class. Have you not heard of Karl Marx? There are huge numbers of lefty middle class people. There is also a significant number of working class people who vote National.
Karl Marx?…wasnt he the brother that couldnt act?
"He likes to pretend"
Yep, a whole lot of figjam pretension.
I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change…if they fuck this opportunity up they will never see my vote again….the question you have to ask yourself is how typical am i?
@Pat
It will be Winston who fucks the Climate Act if anybody. The Greens could bring the gummint down over it, but that would lead to a hugely messy election and probably a Nact led gummint.
No you are not typical of a Green voter. There is about 6% of the vote that is core Green. After that they mostly take votes from Labour. When labour could not find an effective leader people walked to the Greens, and then back again when they finally did.
lf i have voted Green the previous 3 elections im part of that core vote…you cannot know how typical my attitude is…and nor can the party…time will tell.
@Pat
When i say 6% are "core Green voters" i mean voters who support the Green Kaupapa. By saying I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change you are making it very clear that you are not a core Green voter.
I have voted for them in every election where they have been an option as i have always supported most of their policies.
oh dear you are truly delusional…the Greens received approx 6.3% of the vote last election , or 162000 party votes….whats membership?..id suggest significantly less. probably around 10% of that figure….thats your Green Kuapapa, not the votes.
@Pat
Had you considered that you might be part of the 0.3%.
The Greens peaked at i think 12.6% in the polls and that was directly after Metiria's speech. They picked up some lefty vote on the back of that. Then Metiria lost control of the narrative and Ardern became Labour leader and went hard on Climate Change, Fresh Water and Child Poverty. 4-5% (percentage points) went back to Labour and 1-2% of swing voters got the frights. The Greens dropped back to mostly their core vote.
If you think you can sort Climate Change without caring about people then best you buy a gun. You will need it. France has started down that road.
Don't gnosis all that funny franko.
Don't know about 'facist', but this lefty’s noticed franco’s rather fond of labels.
Dennis
Ask Willie Jackson; he's is the self appointed expert in determining who is or is not Maori.
Furthermore you could ask him what methodology he uses to make such a determination.
Is Hone Harawira Maori?
|Is Willie Jackson Maori?
Of course they are, 100 percent of the time.
In my opinion Paula Bennet is Maori when it suits her, and not when it doesn't.
That is, she plays on her heritage when there is a political advantage to be made from it. But mostly ignores it.
Paula Bennet raises the objection that being Maori is not defined by being able to speak Maori.
And she is right.
And I know that for many with all the will in the world, it can prove to hard to pick up the reo, especially if you have been raised exclusively in the Pakeha tradition.
Bennet has a point there.
But for anyone who ever wanted to get in touch with their Maori Heritage, surely Paula Bennet has had more than enough opportunity to learn Te Reo, that is, if she wanted to.
I mean, despite being in a relatively well paid job, (opposition MP), with relatively little to do and able to set her own agenda. And presumably, with the pick of professional support, able and willing to walk her through it. (If she chose to avail herself of it) has she ever tried to learn the language?
Has she ever taken the time, has she even ever made the effort?
I think if she did, it would be the making of her.
"Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has been called upon to lead the war against killer robots." What, harangue them to death??
"Mary Wareham, advocacy director of the Arms Division of Human Rights Watch, is leading the global campaign to ban fully autonomous weapons… Wareham said New Zealand is the only country in the world to have a Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control, referring to Peters. Asked if the world needs Peters to lead the war on killer robots, Wareham responded: "Certainly. I think he would be an excellent leader.""
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/winston-peters-called-upon-to-lead-war-against-killer-robots.html
Well, okay, Aotearoa leading the way is excellent, but Winston probably ought to delegate the task to Arnie – who knows the scene inside-out. He said he'd be back, eh? Now's the time!
Wtf? Haven't they seen those Terminator movies? A war against killer robots is a terrible idea! Humans are squishy and easily disabled, no match for robots at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to just not build the killer robots in the first place?
"The Justice Select Committee is currently considering a bill to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which would review convictions and sentences and decide whether to refer them to the appeal court. Currently, if someone believes they have suffered a miscarriage of justice they can apply to the Governor-General, who seeks advice from the Minister of Justice, for exercise of the Royal prerogative of mercy that can be used to grant a free pardon or to refer a conviction or sentence back to an appeal court."
So a less-paternalistic option. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112421737/mps-urged-to-not-appoint-judges-to-commission-for-miscarriages-of-justice
"Nigel Hampton QC, forensic science consultant Dr Anna Sandiford and investigator Glynn Rigby, submitted for the New Zealand Public Interest Project. They endorsed the idea of a Commission, but urged caution with appointing judges and suggested adding a provision to allow an appeal after death. In their experience miscarriages of justice usually revolved around poor or inadequate investigation, forensic science, legal defence and sometimes overzealous prosecutors."
I'm pleased to see this group lobbying for a body more representative of the public. The legal establishment has often victimised people in the past. I first suggested a public accountability mechanism in 1991 when I wrote the second draft of the Greens justice policy, as convenor of their justice policy working group. Andrew Little's proposal is a weaker alternative, but it will improve the current system. Keeping the judges out of the review group would serve the public interest, but allowing one or two to participate as advisors could also work well.
A USA Judge who did much to limit miscarriages of justice and undertook legislation that advanced the rights of the poor, black community, has just died. I hadn't heard of this great man so I am passing on his obituary so those who care for what he did can honour Judge Damon Keith's achievements and we can seek to emulate them.
https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/04/28/detroit-judge-damon-keith-who-coined-democracy-dies-in-the-dark-dead-at-96
OMG plant based beef has arrived!
Gluten, soy and GMO, and most importantly meat free burgers are on sale from 7 May at BF 🙂 I can't wait to try it out. Don't think I'll be able to totally eliminate meat (on a keto diet) but every bit counts.
Now if only we could get rid of packaging.
There's no need for meat-free burgers in NZ. Much of our livestock is grass-fed on land that wouldn't be suitable for growing crops anyway. Or should be…
Business news on Radionz this morning. Investors very interested in new food non-meat business.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48110704
Is plant burger firm Beyond Meat really worth $1.5bn? The US firm, which counts actor and environmentalist Leonardo DiCaprio among its investors, will now offer its shares at between $23 and $25.
The decision to increase the price from the original range of $19 and $21 indicates strong demand for the shares.
But Beyond Meat is loss-making and does not know when it will report a profit.For its most recent financial results for 2018, Beyond Meat said losses hit $29.9m, slightly below the previous year but above a $25.1m loss in 2016…
Beyond Meat is one of a number of so-called "unicorn" companies – which are privately-backed firms worth $1bn or more – to sell their shares to public investors this year.
yes A
And get the BF foods sent by train not by ‘dirty carbon emissions trucks’ please.
While we discuss politics and racism there is 'humanism' to argue for – us against technology and its weaponisation and the increasing trend of technology to destroy our lives, gradually or suddenly.
Dennis F at 4 also refers to this.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/388334/mps-urged-to-take-strong-stance-on-killer-robots
And also the denial of rights and robbing of land and livelihood from people inconveniently positioned on land with uses for other people. 19th century the Highland Clearances in Scotland – large scale sheep farming over-turning the people’s smallholding-croft system.
Today one example is Western Papua bandied around to major powers, with Indonesia hosting and a USA? firm mining copper on West Papuan land with reprisals against protest that have resulted in deaths. A seeker of info trying to find truth jailed.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/388357/indonesia-jails-polish-tourist-who-met-with-papuan-rebels
The empire does this to their own, what do you think your worth…
I cant reply
@ pshyco milt
Better enjoy it while it lasts . They are rapidly planting the hills killing off our way of life and you grass fed beef
I just watche a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
True ? Or bs ?
Keep it simple please
I read that termites produce more methane than the worlds cow herd combined.
I will do my bit for climate change by eating beef, but those bugs, you're all on your own.
A quick google suggests termites worldwide produce around 20 million tonnes of methane per year, around half of which is oxidised before it even leaves the mound.
Whereas cows belch around 150 million tons per year of methane, all of which goes straight into the atmosphere.
So cows are responsible for around 15x more methane than termites.
I'll have to search for the article I read when I'm home from work, as obviously, I wouldn't have mentioned it if I hadn't read it.
I can't find the piece I read the other day, which would have been mainstream and not dubious, but I had a google, too.
I found a few things that were roughly stating the same thing, though some looked dodgy, the like 12 posts to back their questionable science, so I won't advocate for them here.
I'm happy to be corrected by proper scientists and science, so if their consensus is termites aren't heavier methane producers than cows, so be it.
A few sites put the emissions of termites way above the 20 million tonnes figure, but note the mounds and underground networks act as filters.
Either way, I'll still eat meat, but not bug meat.
Yes, eating insects or larvae is all well and good, but it's not for me.
edit: unless they’re processed AF and look/taste/feel like fillet steak.
Yeah, nah, I'd rather eat that fake crap in the supermarket which costs twice as much as cow mince but with only half the flavour… Or look at rabbit, dog and cat as a cheaper, tasty alternative.
One thing that revolted me about soylent green was that they took actual meat and made it taste like tofu and lentils.
Oh, and the cannibalism, of course…
I guess even the veggos need help to eat all their greens.
The pigs are still gonna be in trouble though. I'm only gonna give up bacon when they pry it out of my cold dead jaws.
Cats- nah. Turning sunshine into protein in plants is horribly inefficient. Taking another step and running that plant material through an animal to make meat protein just compounds the inefficiency. Taking yet another step and running animal protein through an obligate carnivore to produce slightly different animal protein compounds the inefficiency yet again.
But there are so many of them in the hood, free range meat and all that.
The birds would thank you.
Agree about bacon, but I don’t eat it myself any more – Been called a pig so many times it’s like cannibalism.
Yeah, I can't quite get up any enthusiasm for eating invertebrates either.
While I eat very little meat, I really can't be arsed with the effort and planning needed to get the full complement of nutrients needed from a fully vege diet. But I'll be quite happy to eat vat-grown animal cells processed into burgers and sausages and mince.
I can't quite get up any enthusiasm for eating invertebrates either.
I had a really yummy prawn curry last night. Does that count?
Ewww. Prawns inhabit the same ecological niche in the sea that cockroaches do on land. Or is that lobsters? I forget. Not doing filter-feeders either.
Hmm. the prawn thing is bringing me around to the idea. "Cockroaches: prawns of the basement". "Land prawns", maybe?
They did it with canola oil.
All the slum lords would be kicking their tenants out to maximise the six legged growth in their investments.
Or listing them on the flats chattels list…
Actually, fair point. If cockroaches had a prawn texture, I might try them as long as they were peeled, de-legged and decapitated.
But locusts deep fried onna stick would be a bit of a stretch
In this curry they just had the tails still on. It is a little off-putting when they still have a face.
Thinking about it (close to dinner time, after all), I've squished many a land bug, and none of them looked like raw prawns on the inside. Unless the goey innards turn solid when cooked, like an egg does?
@Andre – See above lol
Allien how can eating meat be good for climate change?
That just encourages raising more Cattle doesn't it?
Im happy to take a steak or burger for the team to get rid of all those cows, but veggies and veganauts, you animal lovers, if you plan to get rid of all the cows, are you happy to pull the trigger? And if you're not hypocritical about it, ignoring the obvious cognitive dissonance, why can't I eat what you slaughter?
I think Al0on was being faecetious cleany.
Currently the methane concentration in the atmosphere is around 1900 ppb. Prior to the early 1800s it was very steady at around 700 ppb. The extra methane is responsible for somewhere around 1/4 to 1/3 the global temperature rise since the 1800s, and it's all due to human activities of various kinds, including vastly increasing the global numbers of ruminant livestock.
Yes, it's true that methane oxidises to CO2 and water in the atmosphere, with a half life of around 8 to 12 years. (Half life means every molecule emitted has a 50/50 chance of surviving one half life,and a 1:4 chance of surviving two half lives, 1:8 chance of surviving 3 etc). But while that molecule of CO2 exists in the atmosphere, it is over 100 times more effective at trapping heat then the CO2 molecule it will oxidise into.
The relatively rapid decay of methane means there's a fairly good "bucket with a hole in it" analogy for thinking about methane concentration. Imagine a bucket with a hole in it, and a tap filling it with water. The water flowing in represents the methane we're dumping into the atmosphere, the height of the water in the bucket represents methane concentration in the atmosphere, and the water flowing out represents methane getting oxidised to CO2 and water in the atmosphere. The flow of water out of the hole is a bit responsive to the water level, it flows a bit faster with a high water level, a bit slower with a low water level.
Things were fairly well in balance up to around the 1800s at a fairly low tap flow, and a fairly low level in the bucket, and a low outflow. But when we turned the tap up by finding and burning fossil fuels and increasing agriculture all across the world, the water level rose dramatically. A big part of that turning the tap up was hugely increasing numbers of ruminant livestock. Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
What is it with you that every topic needs to somehow get turned to trains? Was your childhood spent desperately wanting a train set to play with and you never got one for Christmas?
Some 'love' trains, others prefer critiquing those with a bee in their bonnet.
Takes all kinds…
No Cleangreen wanting trains is because of a large part of adulthood petitioning the government to grow some brains, and do the transport thing in a way that is sustainable and provides amenities that Vogel realised in early colonial times..
If you took any real interest in what people on this blog are really on about apart from just a way to keep you from ennui you would know this. I think you come from the USA and no doubt things are different there.
You don't get anything done in NZ unless you are prepared to keep on about it for a couple of decades. If you ever want anything done that is good for the country Andre, don't ever think that you will get it for Christmas because Santa will see how good and right you are. Down here in the Southern Hemisphere you have to make sure that you keep asking because your notes to Santa often get mislaid.
Wags asked about methane cycling in and out of the atmosphere and cows as a part of that cycle. Termites and methane is clearly a closely related topic. So WTF is the story with hijacking the thread to go completely off-topic to trains? It makes trying to follow the original topic and related topics very disjointed.
Especially when it's so easy to just start a new separate thread about trains. Nobody is going to object to that. But thread hijacking is a really good way to get people's backs up.
You said Andre: Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
That caught Cleangreens attention because he always reads your good comments, and then he thought of other ways to help the CC count of whatever go down plus the extra global heating reducing, and then he put in the bit about how using trains would be beneficial for that. So all quite easy to follow when you see the activist mind at work.
Trains to Gisborne and the usefulness they will have towards saving fuel and carbon credits and so on are top of the bill for Cleangreen and rightly so being more important than lots of things we discuss.
And because we have to say everything to NZ politicians and planners a thousand times before they ever hear of the idea, Cleangreen is just bringing the count up.
Because trucks are driving past his house and stirring up dust. If I remember correctly a quarry opened up down the road from where he lives.
Being an older retired gentleman this is no doubt driving him nuts which are leading to the never-ending pro trains anti-truck ranting.
What is it about trains vs trucks?
In no particular order: energy efficiency for moving goods up and down this skinny country
less diesel pollution from the electrified part of the rail network,
no rubber compound pollution from trains,
the trucking industry subsidised by the rest of us to pay for the damage the trucks do to roads,
trucking industry being poorly paid, hardly unionized and often exploitative of its workers,
the damage done to other motorists when colliding with a truck.
I am sure there are a few more.
Nothing to do with wanting a train set.
Those are all good arguments to use in a thread about transport modes. But what is their relevance in a thread about methane cycles and cows?
"Another visit from the thread purity police, lol." – yes, it's a thing.
Events seem to conspire to derail my life – why should a blog thread (on Open Mike) be any different?
Someone else will have commented (over the years), but why is it "Open Mike" (< 2 million Google matches) rather than "Open Mic" (> 17 million Google matches)? English/US difference?
[Agree that ‘thread derailing’ is poor etiquette, so apologies for derailing the derail, just for a bit of fun.]
The thread's all over the place now, nobody's gonna give a shit anymore.
Had just finished work and had a cantankerous manager have a crack.
I picked up a touch of snark in yr comment and that was what I was responding to.
To draw a long bow, those cows are generally about 'coz A, the are dairy and their milk leaves by truck or B, they are beef cattle and their protein leaves by truck.
You can't have your methaney livestock in isolation.![wink wink](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/wink_smile.png)
Gee, can't we just go back to the good'ol days and just walk those cows to the nearest train?
sounds like a win win to me.
Good info but you didnt answer the question .
Remember, the (primary) problem is heat absorption. Because methane is 20 times more greenhousey than CO2 that part of the cycle increases global warming.
But also, some fertiliser comes from fossil sources, so reintroduces more carbon compounds into the atmosphere in addition to the cycle.
And lastly, there's the "what was the land used for previously" question: burning the rain forest to make a cattle farm releases most of the carbon that was sunk into tree mass.
So the idea of "continuous cycle" is true to a point, but contributions to GW are often not as simple as that concept would suggest.
It's a factoid that's been taken out of its relevant context and used to hokey up some special pleading for some that don't want to take responsibility and make changes.
As a standalone assertion, that methane rapidly oxidises to CO2, and that plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere to be eaten by cows that then belch methane back into the atmosphere in a continuous cycle, is correct. And it is also correct that if numbers of cows do not change (and other methane emissions do not change) then methane levels in the atmosphere won't change.
But the context needed to understand the significance of that cycle is very important. First, methane levels now are nearly triple what they were throughout all previous human history, and the methane levels we have now are incompatible with maintaining a livable climate.
The massive increase in ruminant livestock numbers we now have over what was present through all previous human history is a significant contributor to the extremely high methane levels we now have. Reducing ruminant livestock numbers is one of the easiest steps we could take to reduce methane levels.
A quick Google revealed a recent (2019) paper (in a well-respected scientific journal) that suggests scientists still don't know enough to accurately predict trends in atmospheric methane concentrations.
Thank you .
Its important that facts are known and reported as such .
I run into ranting cockies alot and i want to be on solid ground if im going counter their shit .
Numbers i believe have peaked and will head down from here .
I'm guessing you saw the same video I saw, have a read of this comment
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-04-12-2018/#comment-1558161
Fuck this new editor sucks donkey dick, it seems to want to truncate the URL, hopeless.
I'll repost the comment
https://youtu.be/BOJdz_LgDBE
I put up a video about cows, methane and surprise, got accused of being a denialist
I realize this is a touchy subject, but people probably misunderstood where I was coming from, I’m not a scientist or have vast in-depth knowledge of climate change.
I posted a video which I thought was interesting as it was saying something completely different from what I’ve seen in the media and thought I’d put it up here and get feedback.
Asking questions doesn’t make one a denialist.
Now about methane
Methane concentrations have increased from around 775 parts per billion in pre-industrial times to around 1800 now, due entirely to human activities
In the video methane and ruminants(cows) was shown to be a natural cycle where methane was endlessly recycled and nothing changed and everything was kept in balance, obviously if more cattle are added then the amount of methane would increase.
So I went and had a look to see if cow/beef numbers have increased massively in the past 50 years and surprisingly they’ve been rather static.
That also got me thinking pre-industrial there must have been a shit tonne of natural ruminants like Bison, Deer etc. and before them big animals like mammoths which would have been belching out methane by the tonne as well as many wetlands which have been destroyed due to farming
I then came across this article which I found interesting.
https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/la-chefs-editorial-methane-and-global-warming/
The question the author was trying to answer was why methane levels didn’t start to rise until the industrial age.
According to the author
One reason methane levels remained flat was that cattle and other ruminants (wild and domesticated) lived in intact grassland ecosystems and helped build healthy soils that contain soil microbes called methanotrophs that reduce atmospheric methane (2). Thus maintained grassland ecosystems function as methane sinks, and bank as much as 15% of the earth’s methane (3) Tillage for crops reduces the soil’s capacity to bank methane (as does exposed uncovered soil) plus also releases carbon into the atmosphere (4). Use of synthetic fertilizers also adversely impacts soil methanotrophs (5). Glyphosate in no tilled systems according to industry funded research doesn’t impact soil microbial activity. Though research by other researchers contradicts this industry perspective and details how herbicides like glyphosate adversely change the makeup of soil microbes (6).
If that is the case because all our dairy and beef is grass fed we do not actually have that much of an impact on global methane levels? should we even be paying carbon taxes?
Or if we do shouldn’t it be more vegetable growers and not so much farmers?
The author points the finger more at natural gas and writes.
Meanwhile the methane from fracking and natural gas extraction, transportation and refining, in general, apparently has been underestimated significantly maybe by 5 times or 500% per some recent studies on this topic (9). Not to mention China is massively increasing their use of natural gas and fracking. Coincidentally, the largest increases in methane levels occurred in the 1960’s when natural gas use increased significantly- nearly ten-fold.
Oh god we have seen that shit on here before. I'm sure it was you who posted it too. It is Friday night, give us a break for fucks sake.
Robin Grieve, Act candidate for Whangarei. Act, the only party that has ever argued that buffer zones between GE and organic farms were viable. My suggestion was napalm every 30 seconds.
Yeah Bison and Deer all over Aotearoa. We have had that discussion before also. Mindless stuff.
FYI bwaghorn’s question waas:
<i>I just watched a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
True ? Or bs ? Keep it simple please </i>
the problem is that there are multiple sources of methane other than ruminants…a major contributor is the gas industry…which is unrelated to the flow argument and growing
It's never simple bwaghorn – about natural processes.
What do you mean they are rapidly planting the hills killing off our way of life. Do you mean that hillside pastures are being taken up by tree plantations? Pinus radiata?
I understand that the idea of planting widely allowing grazing between once the trees have got established is probably the way to go. But don't know for sure, and if so what species? Is it possible for us to not have pinus but another one kinder to the soil.
Perhaps they should be planting big bamboos – not keeping on the old mousewheel of pinus radiata because – fast and it's what we know. Couldn't there be some R&D money to help with trials for diversification that would be studied and published benefitting all with the information.
This was put to bed with a lot of trials by the old Forest Service in the 70's.
Result – crap trees due to the wide spacing leading to too much branch / canopy and crap pasture due to the shading and water draw by the trees. I think most of the trials were abandoned after less than 15 years, at least the one I had a little to do with at Tikitere was.
That is interesting. So can't put trees in for plantation purposes wide spread. What if the trees were like tagstase? and the animals could both graze grass and the tree, and get shade, and the farmer have some advantage from carbon credits from the tree left in situ? Shade is going to be something that cannot be ignored with the advent of CC becoming hot as hell out there, which would be a variable not high at the time of the trials you referred to.
What do you say about the scenario I put together for possible adoption in the coming years. I guess the old Forest Service in the 70's was still steeped in p.radiata, so different tree – different result perhaps. And edible. And maybe more opportunity for understorey growth with other tree types as I think pinus kills and dries off undergrowth.
Tagasaste would last 5 seconds around cows.
Heard of an area that has lost 100 000 stock units to trees lately . At roughly 1 job per 5000 stock units thats a massive whole in the community. Less kids in schools less partners doing other work . Etc .
That's a giant change of finances. Not much coming in for 20-30 years so who would be parking so much finance in the trees for that long, and they might burn down. Would they get insurance in the first place?
Even when foreign money or aggregation of farms happens, there are managers and workers required. Going into trees like that will certainly take people out of the area.
British local body election results are coming through: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-48131095
Professor Sir John Curtice, "polling expert": "There have been some remarkably good figures for the Greens so far, who on average are running at 12% of the vote in the wards that they are fighting, up 5 points on their performance in last year's local elections."
Update from Curtice: "Note that in contrast to the position for Labour, compared with 2015 the Conservative vote is down much more heavily in the south of England (by 8 points) as compared with the north of England (by 2 points). If this pattern continues then Tory losses in the south of England tomorrow could still prove to be quite substantial."
Labour are tanking at the moment, with 2 councils lost and -50 councillors.
They may yet, even though polling at around 30%, win a general election, though it'll be more down to Farrage and his brexit it party bleeding support from the Tories at about 18% nationally.
The lib dems are the nights winners, so far, which may also impede on labour in those 3 way seats they need to win to take a majority at parliament.
“Labour are tanking at the moment…”
Thanks for that BBC link, Dennis.
As of 6 pm (NZ time): So far the Tories have lost 16 councils and Labour three.
Welfare working group report just released. Perfectly reasonable recommendations but given this report only exists as part of the confidence & supply agreement with the Greens and would never have happened otherwise, it's safe to say the vast majority of it will be watered down, delayed or totally ignored, especially the raising of the core benefit rates.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/388392/recommendations-on-welfare-system-reform-released
Kat
Keep questioning I think and they won't be able to get away with a watered down version. It sounds so promising that i feel tremendously hopeful. If there is a spark of old Labour to be dug around and watered, it might send up shoots and flower. A thing of beauty and a joy forever.
Beneficiaries who work will be able to earn more before their pay is docked, and the sanction against solo mothers who don't name the father of their children will be scrapped, as the government begins its overhaul of the welfare system.
If bennies can earn much more, then they can get themselves onto the work train when possible. If they can get child sitting during school holidays then they can work that into an earning scheme that will provide those needed shoes, the sports gear, the inclusion of their kids in events at school.
And not naming the father gives them the option of not including a ne'er-do-well into the family life the mother is trying to build. He may know himself but won't have the department after him for money and it is better if the aim is to help the mother to become self-sustaining which is a good role model for the youngsters. Not having a druggie, alcoholic or play-acting father around, will make for stability and will be likely to cut into the stats for domestic violence. There is choice involved as to whether to have occasional visits or not if the father is a degenerate or just unreliable. It is a blow to a child if a visit is set up and the child is ready and waiting, and the father doesn't turn up, or is drunk and disorderly, or is subtly demeaning of the mother’s efforts so the child is left idolising the idea of him as generous, and the mother as being unworthy, and not to be fully loved which would cut into the mutual support that builds good family ties and relationships.
National bereft of effective positive ideas as usual with their usual expressions of negativity. Louise Upston with this one:
"National disagrees with the bulk of the report, which would see fewer obligations imposed on beneficiaries and fewer incentives to get back into work.
They still haven't caught up with womens lib yet. To them it was university women's lib, so they could grab the well-paying jobs when available that came with perks like maternity leave. Ordinary women were neither to share this bounty, or receive the respect due to mothers and partners trying to bring up healthy children, with values of honesty and kindness, with hope for a skilled job at a decent wage. 'Dragging up your kids' is the disparaging view of better-off National looking at lower income people's efforts, and they fund to match and perpetuate that malign view.
@Grey- my view of welfare does tend to be through the illness/disability lens, ie the one that rarely gets mentioned. Incentives to work mean absolutely nothing to a lot of us, but being able to pay for medical treatment without starving, does. That's not to say I'm not interested in what else is happening in general, but we don't tend to rate much of a mention. Besides, it's hard for the bashers to have a direct attack at us so no air time in the media either. I wish I could join you in feeling hopeful. But history dictates that, even if a few positive changes occur over the next few years, as soon as the government changes again- and being NZ it inevitably will- the first thing the Nats will do is attack welfare.
Something slightly amusing though- I noticed Stuff had opened their comments section for this story, so I posted a comment reminding them about their new policy of not opening stories about beneficiaries for comments, and was the temptation to let back in the bashers too much for them? Funnily enough the comments are now closed 🙂
Kay
After reading your and Rosemarys comments i realise that I don't know much about the disability allowance. The welfare net has been set far too high for anyone to be able to fall into it for years. The stupid way that supplements etc were set up should have been adjusted for inflation at the beginning and often were not.
Anyway here is a cute little UK ad from the past about finding work that the increased front line staff might copy.
Jobs for women.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r60n-Bn_8II
We might get something in the Budget but Ms Sepuloni doesn't sound promising. 'Staged implementation' makes me think of a performance of Shakespeares 'All's Well that Ends Well' .
Maybe Robbo will find it in his heart to throw more money at suffering property developers.
Announcement made…https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112435767/government-to-scrap-benefit-sanction-for-solo-mums-employ-263-frontline-staff-to-help-beneficiaries-find-work
Some improvement…getting rid of the sanction for solo mums who don't name the father and increase the amount earned before abatement but….sweet fa for anyone else.
However, Sepuloni said the Government had decided against a recommended move to increase benefit levels by up to 47 per cent immediately so Kiwis could "live in dignity", and was instead "looking at a staged implementation" of change.
It would also allocate $76.3 million for 263 new frontline staff with the sole "focus of helping more people into meaningful and sustainable work".
So, it looks like more of the arbeit mach frei that the Nats were so fond of.
When I saw the headline you linked to Kay I thought of you. I've said this before, but when Peter graduated from the Supported Living Payment to the Super we were actually able to save a few dollars while living almost full time in our Bus and largely free camping.
That is how much difference there is between the SLP and Super.
Maybe they're saving something for those on SLP as a Budget day headline?
@Rosemary, I'd like to think so but it seems pretty clear they're not going to increase any of the core benefits. The one thing they could do (and it wouldn't upset most of the voters either) is getting rid of that pathetic cap on the disability allowance, $62/week or whatever it is now. It hasn't been lifted for years. That would help a lot without having to roll things over onto TAS etc, minimise paperwork.
My rent is now $30/week more than my core benefit so I'm existing entirely off the supplements which I'm maxed out on, and I doubt I'm alone…
The list of recommendations….
Key recommendations of the welfare expert advisory group:
Seems the government has largely ignored pretty much all of the suggestions.
Mostly interested in happy- clappy headline grabbers.
SSDD
A good Friday afternoon dump – to be expected from this lot, no matter what the party colour.
It will be like a Royal Wedding.
Congratulations to Jacinda Ardern and Clarke Gayford.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/112442442/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-and-clarke-gayford-engaged
Sweet merciful god.
You sound very religious Gabby. I guess we will all give thanks and prayers for their happy future together, both trying to multi-task, in a balanced modern relationship.
Hopefully next year about 6 months from the election.
And in the next term, another baby please.
We're good for 50% plus and governing with either Greens or NZF on that.
Nice white flowing gown with veil please. Maybe borrow Princess Di's dress.
Awesome…hope they do it MAF stylze!
For a third term, third child.
So much better than any substantial policy at all.
Winston might veto a third child.
Why? He’ll get to be acting PM again. Don’t they have to make the job permanent of three fixed-term contracts?
Do you mean so he can get his parliamentary super? I think Winston is so super that has been allocated long ago. And I think he deserves it as he has kept on making politics look vital and meaningful, at least some;times.
I was referring to employment law. For example:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/employment/news/article.cfm?c_id=11&objectid=10502361
It was tongue-in-cheek 😉
I hope someone's printing commemorative mugs and tea towels.
I hope you're joking.
It's going to happen.
Dollar for dollar Labour donations so he can afford a 2 carat e grade vvs1 rock.
It's all about the rock now people.
God almighty it just may be so.![frown frown](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/confused_smile.png)
I may have to go somewhere else for a while.
A tune for a Friday, methinks…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlxBdc2IBJI
Ad the ring has been photographed and looks a simple tasteful affair. Why so sour?
Congrats to them, that's fantastic news.
Yes congrats to Clark and Jacinda. Great news.
I hope they do it their way. Sure they will.
LOL about the PR opportunities re the next election.
Wedding 3 weeks out from election???????
Seriously though, this plus the welfare reforms, very good news.
I hope they go very very far! And news in now Pike River agency think they have
identified what has stopped them re-entering the mine……
Except those pesky housing targets won't be met, the trees won't be planted and those child poverdy markers going the wrong direction isn't anything to be pleased about![smiley smiley](https://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.11.3/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/regular_smile.png)
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.
Of course they're doing something!
They're getting married, showing the leadership position to halt the decline in marriage and civil marriage:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/weddings/112441324/new-zealand-marriage-continues-downhill-trend
It was unseasonably warm today so i had one, it was pretty good 🙂
They will marry quietly and privately with no fuss. We will probably only find out after the event.
My reason for saying so is because Jacinda and Clarke like to keep their private lives private and that is the way it should be.
Thanks Cinny and Anne, for some decency. I am missing veteuviper and find much of the comment on here a little depressing and very sour, so I am on holiday for a while from the Standard, and I notice a few other absences. Cheers.
Their announcement is a timely distraction from the welfare report.
"Their announcement is a timely distraction" – too cynical?
A spokesman for the prime minister said the pair were engaged over Easter weekend.
Yet, it was conveniently announced today. A day Labour once again fell short on public hope and expectations.
CIA puppet's attempted putsch backed by Trump, Abrams, Pompeo and Bolton fails embarrassingly; U.S. state television (CNN) is flummoxed
Win some,
Lose most.
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.