Morning all. Juan Guaido here. That's G U A I D O, in case you're not familiar with the spelling. It's now or never. Operation "Enduring Hydrocarbons" enters a new phase today. Our removal of the illegitimate dictatorship starts at 11.30am outside Devonport Naval Base. Get along there Aucklanders! Bring a packed lunch and a rain jacket. Cash donations also welcome.
And how can we tell if someone is Maori enough anyway? Genetic analysis? Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census? Interesting road opening up here, but ought we to head down it?
"Jackson's Labour Māori caucus colleague Peeni Henare went further, actually questioning whether Bennett is Māori enough." Big call, claiming the second question is further than the first, but that's journalists for you. Just questions so far. No actual judgments.
"I haven't seen her contribution to the community for Māori kaupapa, I haven't seen her on the marae, I haven't seen her dry dishes, I haven't seen her do a karanga – therefore, it should be raising the question," he said.
Henare manages to tick at least two boxes with this. Bennett (who is a sad apology for a human being) is condemned as being not Maori enough by a Maori male because she doesn't behave the way he thinks a Maori woman should?
Sigh.
Criticise the woman for her many, many appalling words and actions as a politician, but damning her because she fails to fit his view of an acceptable Maori woman is a sacking offense.
Stupid men. Poor Ardern having to sort this one out.
Turns out there was context that the Newshub report didn't mention: "How does he [Jackson] determine whether the Māori in the Mana in Mahi programme are Māori enough to be counted?" she asked after Jackson said of the 143 clients have been placed in the programme 75 participants – some 52 per cent – identify as Māori."
Henare's position is also expanded here: ""blood quantum simply isn't enough" when it comes to being Māori. "I've always felt that you have to reach a threshold of need, participation and contribution in Māori Kaupapa. If you don't, of course, questions are going to be raised." He said he was "more than happy" for those questions to be raised of anybody who claims to be Māori who does not meet that threshold."
Science would measure the blood quantum via genetics, but he's making it clear that there's a cultural determinant that applies equally. Where does that leave urban Maori who have evolved several generations since the colonial era, many of whom apparently become disconnected from their tribal roots? Required to re-enculture themselves to qualify?
You really believe blood is a cultural construct?? Most people believe it is a physical thing. Science usually proves stuff by examining physical evidence. Seems like Henare is acknowledging that via his reference: "blood quantum". He then includes culture as part of identity.
His application of both/and logic seems appropriate to me, yet your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong. Why do you disagree with Henare?
No, blood is a red liquid that transports oxygen and nutrients through the body.
Social Science studies the shared ideas of social groups and how people identify as part of a group.
Maori get to define what "Maori" is not some racist Pakeha prick like you using racist Pakeha ideas about 'race'. To be Maori a person must have at least one Maori ancestor, as i said, and identify as being Maori. That is the way it has always been.
Henare does not specify any particular amount of 'blood quantum' and i assume this is just a clumsy way of saying some genetic heritage. Henare would be out on a limb with his other comments about level of involvement, i would think. Jackson said as much.
Again i am not sure if you are being stupid or just the shit stirring prick that you obviously are.
Fascinating. Does that mean that Bennett is entitled to decide that neither Jackson nor Henare is a Maori? Would that mean that Peeni Henare would be disqualified from being an MP from a Maori electorate seat and that there will be a by-election?
Or can only a Labour MP make such decisions and what you really mean is that some animals are more equal than others, as Orwell would put it?
Even I know that.You surely don't imagine that you are a unique source of knowledge about such things do you? So what? It doesn't change the question. Who get to make the call? You surely aren't going to tell me that it must be unanimous are you?
Well that is certainly a masterpiece of Delphic ambiguity. Given the names Jackson, Peters, and Bennett it is pretty clear that they had ancestors who indulged in the activity. The jury is still out on whether Henare qualifies.
Willie doesn't believe in being PC. Sometimes I don't like his approach, but this morning on Radionz he made his point for not being a slang-free society. A bit of to-and-fro is more honest than rigid people complying with the conventions as well as the laws, and being completely shuttered and negative in their minds as to the humanity of the situation.
Being PC in everything is just so PC marty mars. Good to keep on going round in circles, keeps you in touch with yourself, otherwise one can get lost in the harakeke.
You lost me but it's all okay – I am a full on card carrying believer in political correctness as it is known by its enemies and kindness as it is known by its friends.
I can say with surety that the word 'race', in all its lurid connotations, is one of my least favorite words – I might even be so bold as to put it at the top of my disliked words or perhaps the bottom depending upon my fickle mood.
Obviously being Maori, as with any ethnicity, involves more than just having a genetic component. My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group.
It is always hard to know if you are as ignorant as you pretend to be.
Being in the kitchen helping with the tremendous hospitality that Maori turn out for their cultural purposes is one of the Maori women's cultural activities, and the men set everything up, dig the hangi and set it up etc.
It's just division of duties for the successful outcome to a function and not to be judged by pakeha women as not coinciding with their efforts to gain mana and standing for women who have had to fight their way up from a lower status than Maori women had.
I was just tacking myself on to the end with a general comment. It sometimes interferes with the flow of the comments and replies to come in late and add something a bit different solkta.
And agree Sacha. I was stating what I have learned from having been on marae helping and been told and observed what I referred to in my earlier comment.
I have been on many marae events and my grandson is of Ngati-porau, of nga whanau me nga hapu o Ngati Porou, so I enjoy Maori serving of food with aroha and hospitality it is very warm.
I speak very little Maori sadly, but my heart is there but the life is to short.
solkta "My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group."
Can I suggest that you have it quite back-to-front.
It isn't that scots have moved away from scottishness, it is that scottishness has moved forward to new places and cultural activities, thus re-defining that ethnicity.
This idea that ethnicity has strict rules around what you have to do to belong grates like fingernails down a chalkboard. It makes no sense and I reject it. Humanity and its ethnicities have long been in a state of flux and change – immigrating, colonising, going to McDonalds, it never stops moving.
Similarly with maori – it shouldn't be that you have to conduct yourself in certain ways to be that ethnicity, it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity. This is, after all, how that ethnicity and its current cultural activities came into being in the first place…
it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity.
No it should be whatever Maori do as a group. Otherwise you are just talking about 'race'.
I do get your point that culture is not static, but it has to be morphing from one set of parameters to another. Maori culture is obviously different from what it was pre European contact, but it is still distinct from that of other groups.
But it is being done as part of that group – that was my point and why I said “whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori”. Whatever one does with one's life is as part of that group. I don't see how one person's life can be separated out from the group like you suggest.
The principle I outline above is the exact same principle used by maori for various claims made under te tiriti for matters which maori previously had no knowledge of, let alone activity in. For example, radio waves.
Willie Jackson is being empty-headed with his claims and he should turn his mind to this principle, which he has supported countless times himself in the past. What a nincompoop
My understanding of the the claims for the Treaty are that the tikanga is not set in stone; the Treaty is a living thing, changing with times, developments, experiences and perceptions. So the Treaty that was perceived at the time that it was signed, is still the Treaty at a different time but with some different perceptions about it. The main one being that there was an agreement made to preserve and maintain elements of life.
As for being a Maori, my understanding is that it is variable. There may be blood relationships, or it may be acceptance relationships through marriage or even if someone has been accepted as one of the group and become a sister or brother by agreement. This then requires that person to fulfill family duties and responsibilities to that group, hapu or marae, if they want to be fully included. It seems to me that it is a matter of heart, and acceptance, and mutual commitment.
But all Maori aren't equal; different groups have their own ways and perceptions. One tribe may not accept someone from another. And one of my relatives is both Maori and pakeha, pale skinned, from a South Island tribe. Some of them are not fully accepting because of the pale skin. When in Northland around 1950, that tribe's similar attitudes were isolating which led to loneliness.
I am a bit confused I am part Irish/Scottish/Greek/English on my mothers' side of the family, however a family DNA test has come back as mainly Iberian ie Spanish/Portugese and on my fathers side I am mainly Scottish & Maori so what does that make me ?
Going off to a tangent my wife has done my family tree. There is a bit of Scottish, Irish and German in me. I had to have a Cataract operation a few years ago and the surgeon said he was going to fit a Zeiss lens in my eye. I can now say honestly that there is a bit of German in me
As an example of how threads can be disrupted and hard to follow when the reply doesn't state the original commenter, you at 8.51 am saying about being ignorant comes below mine at 10.15 am so you were not referring to me.
It seems it was referring to either Dennis F or Rosemary M further up at 3.1…
The non apology – it's attitudes like jackson expresses, those distorted views, that directly contribute to the appalling statistics young Māori are over represented in – disgraceful.
Look, if you want to criticise a Labour MP then do so directly, like Marty. Being so oblique just makes you seem dishonest. And since when have you ever tried to add anything useful to this site?? All you seem capable of is random misunderstandings of the discourse.
You have taken Henare's stupidity and run with it. Above you have said things like:
"your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong."
and
"Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census?"
which is inexcusably ignorant in this day and age. Life is too short to put up with fools polluting the public pool. Such nonsense would be warmly welcomed at Kiwibog.
So explain why you disagree with the Labour minister's reference to the biological part of Maori identity, and why you disagree with applying a metric to that. And why you lack a sense of humour. 🙄
You are so sure of yourself. You might remember the quote about who are fools and who are wise. When you start talking about Maori proving that biologically you are going back over arguments made decades ago, even a century.
If you know so little about Maori matters better you stay out of giving your opinions – you haven't got up to first base and need to go away, read up and learn. Everybody needs to do some homework for themselves so they can discuss from the point of view of some appropriate authority.
So does that mean you didn't notice that the Labour minister referred to "blood quantum"?? Or do you think blood is not biological??
Did you also not notice that I mostly asked questions? Which of my opinions are you actually referring to? Did you notice that respondents failed to address what he actually said? Do you think such evasion of political comments is what this website ought to feature, and if so, why?
If you get my drift, it ain't about me at all, no matter how hard some respondents are trying to spin it. It's about the news!
It is a good thing for a pakeha to sit back and let Maori sort matters out between themselves. Feelings and tikanga, expectations and resentments may have to be worked through and require a truce between them to their mutual resignation.
That is for them to work out. You can't cut perceptions into thin slices and put them under a microscope. Until you are required to make a decision because you are in a position requiring decisions or legality, then it would be discerning of you to remain politely in the background.
If as a pakeha, you have seen the strong feelings that can arise after the death of a parent between the various siblings, you might have an idea of the emotional aspect to be worked out in relationships.
Sacha @ 3.4 & 3.4.1.1 and she seems to be coming from a pc position, which I'm allergic to. I get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, to me it looks and smells like censorship.
So my stance is that I have as much right to comment on cultural & political matters in Aotearoa as anyone else. To the extent that Maori stuff affect us, I comment on that. If it doesn't affect the pakeha world, I don't. This item does.
The reason is that a new bit of political culture was invented by the three Maori MPs involved. You will see that I introduced the topic with a question that goes straight to the heart of it. The significant point is that nobody has answered the question!! I've seen that pattern since I was a child in the 1950s. Adults would freak out when I asked a simple question or made a simple comment. They would literally freeze, with a look of fear in their eyes. Somehow, I was born with an uncanny knack of uttering the unspeakable.
Nowadays they call it speaking truth to power. When the power lies in social convention, speaking truth shatters it, enabling progress. Those in denial of Maori racism voiced against Maori will studiously continue to evade what has actually happened. It's part of the traditional leftist preference for delusion over reality.
Leftists thinking centrists are rightists is way funnier. No wonder they struggle to figure out which way is up. Reality is so hard for such dimwits to grasp, as you keep on demonstrating…
You don't seem to even know what you think you are let alone what you actually are. Yesterday you were claiming to be Green, but while the Green Party dose not generally identify as being Left it very certainly does not identify as being Centrist.
I've told the history of that here several times over the past few years. The Values Party schism in the mid-seventies was caused by the leftists and centrists being unable to do consensus.
I was too radical that decade to join either group. I persuaded the Greens to go left in '91 when Jeanette Fitzsimons led a session on the question at our conference. My reasoning was that the Bolger govt had already captured several leading environmentalists, so we had to form a viable alternative. Nobody wanted Labour (due to Rogernomics).
There's always been many in the Green Party who prefer non-alignment, but the conference decision was pre-MMP and we had a binary choice only. Russel Norman's straw poll at the 2015 conference (65 in the session) showed the leftists were half the number who put their hands up for the traditional Green position (neither left nor right). I saw that happen.
The problem with people like you & Sacha is the perennial one of always operating from the position of ignorance, while pretending to know stuff. Sad the way the leftist belief system makes many adherents delusional.
He likes to pretend that he has some significant history with the Greens but from what he has said on here it seems that had some involvement in the very early years but then left as he was not a good fit at all. The crap that he has talked today about 'race' would have gone down like a lead balloon both then and now, as would most of his ramblings.
yet they are centrist…as are their voter base…a more middle class party would be hard to find…their one saving grace is in danger of disappearing altogether.
The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's. Winston is Centrist and he is currently fucking up most Green policy objectives.
Centrist does not mean "middle class" and Left does not mean exclusively working class. Karl Marx was very middle class for fucks sake.
The Greens come to the same place as the Left on social policy, they just get their by a different route.
"The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's."
Are they?..and even if they are Labour are hardly 'left' as they subscribe to neoliberalism…as stated the Greens are , and are supported by the middle class as their voter demographic displays…but you keep telling yourself otherwise, it may come true one day
To explain it another way, when Greens say they are not Left or Right they mean that they don't really fit on that spectrum. Centrism fits on that spectrum, right in the middle of it.
The Greens have had a policy for Capital Gains Tax longer than Labour and still do. The Greens are responsible through their agreement for the welfare changes announced today. I can't be fucked giving you more examples but there are many. You can go to the relevant websites and compare.
Yes Labour are not as left as they once were, the Greens are further left, if measured on that spectrum, like i said. Left and Right are only relevant to the context so in NZ Parliamentary Politics today Labour are still left of centre.
And also like i said Centrist does not mean middle class. Have you not heard of Karl Marx? There are huge numbers of lefty middle class people. There is also a significant number of working class people who vote National.
I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change…if they fuck this opportunity up they will never see my vote again….the question you have to ask yourself is how typical am i?
It will be Winston who fucks the Climate Act if anybody. The Greens could bring the gummint down over it, but that would lead to a hugely messy election and probably a Nact led gummint.
No you are not typical of a Green voter. There is about 6% of the vote that is core Green. After that they mostly take votes from Labour. When labour could not find an effective leader people walked to the Greens, and then back again when they finally did.
lf i have voted Green the previous 3 elections im part of that core vote…you cannot know how typical my attitude is…and nor can the party…time will tell.
When i say 6% are "core Green voters" i mean voters who support the Green Kaupapa. By saying I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change you are making it very clear that you are not a core Green voter.
I have voted for them in every election where they have been an option as i have always supported most of their policies.
oh dear you are truly delusional…the Greens received approx 6.3% of the vote last election , or 162000 party votes….whats membership?..id suggest significantly less. probably around 10% of that figure….thats your Green Kuapapa, not the votes.
Had you considered that you might be part of the 0.3%.
The Greens peaked at i think 12.6% in the polls and that was directly after Metiria's speech. They picked up some lefty vote on the back of that. Then Metiria lost control of the narrative and Ardern became Labour leader and went hard on Climate Change, Fresh Water and Child Poverty. 4-5% (percentage points) went back to Labour and 1-2% of swing voters got the frights. The Greens dropped back to mostly their core vote.
If you think you can sort Climate Change without caring about people then best you buy a gun. You will need it. France has started down that road.
In my opinion Paula Bennet is Maori when it suits her, and not when it doesn't.
That is, she plays on her heritage when there is a political advantage to be made from it. But mostly ignores it.
Paula Bennet raises the objection that being Maori is not defined by being able to speak Maori.
And she is right.
And I know that for many with all the will in the world, it can prove to hard to pick up the reo, especially if you have been raised exclusively in the Pakeha tradition.
Bennet has a point there.
But for anyone who ever wanted to get in touch with their Maori Heritage, surely Paula Bennet has had more than enough opportunity to learn Te Reo, that is, if she wanted to.
I mean, despite being in a relatively well paid job, (opposition MP), with relatively little to do and able to set her own agenda. And presumably, with the pick of professional support, able and willing to walk her through it. (If she chose to avail herself of it) has she ever tried to learn the language?
Has she ever taken the time, has she even ever made the effort?
I think if she did, it would be the making of her.
"Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has been called upon to lead the war against killer robots." What, harangue them to death??
"Mary Wareham, advocacy director of the Arms Division of Human Rights Watch, is leading the global campaign to ban fully autonomous weapons… Wareham said New Zealand is the only country in the world to have a Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control, referring to Peters. Asked if the world needs Peters to lead the war on killer robots, Wareham responded: "Certainly. I think he would be an excellent leader.""
Well, okay, Aotearoa leading the way is excellent, but Winston probably ought to delegate the task to Arnie – who knows the scene inside-out. He said he'd be back, eh? Now's the time!
Wtf? Haven't they seen those Terminator movies? A war against killer robots is a terrible idea! Humans are squishy and easily disabled, no match for robots at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to just not build the killer robots in the first place?
"The Justice Select Committee is currently considering a bill to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which would review convictions and sentences and decide whether to refer them to the appeal court. Currently, if someone believes they have suffered a miscarriage of justice they can apply to the Governor-General, who seeks advice from the Minister of Justice, for exercise of the Royal prerogative of mercy that can be used to grant a free pardon or to refer a conviction or sentence back to an appeal court."
"Nigel Hampton QC, forensic science consultant Dr Anna Sandiford and investigator Glynn Rigby, submitted for the New Zealand Public Interest Project. They endorsed the idea of a Commission, but urged caution with appointing judges and suggested adding a provision to allow an appeal after death. In their experience miscarriages of justice usually revolved around poor or inadequate investigation, forensic science, legal defence and sometimes overzealous prosecutors."
I'm pleased to see this group lobbying for a body more representative of the public. The legal establishment has often victimised people in the past. I first suggested a public accountability mechanism in 1991 when I wrote the second draft of the Greens justice policy, as convenor of their justice policy working group. Andrew Little's proposal is a weaker alternative, but it will improve the current system. Keeping the judges out of the review group would serve the public interest, but allowing one or two to participate as advisors could also work well.
A USA Judge who did much to limit miscarriages of justice and undertook legislation that advanced the rights of the poor, black community, has just died. I hadn't heard of this great man so I am passing on his obituary so those who care for what he did can honour Judge Damon Keith's achievements and we can seek to emulate them.
Gluten, soy and GMO, and most importantly meat free burgers are on sale from 7 May at BF 🙂 I can't wait to try it out. Don't think I'll be able to totally eliminate meat (on a keto diet) but every bit counts.
There's no need for meat-free burgers in NZ. Much of our livestock is grass-fed on land that wouldn't be suitable for growing crops anyway. Or should be…
Is plant burger firm Beyond Meat really worth $1.5bn? The US firm, which counts actor and environmentalist Leonardo DiCaprio among its investors, will now offer its shares at between $23 and $25.
The decision to increase the price from the original range of $19 and $21 indicates strong demand for the shares.
But Beyond Meat is loss-making and does not know when it will report a profit.For its most recent financial results for 2018, Beyond Meat said losses hit $29.9m, slightly below the previous year but above a $25.1m loss in 2016…
Beyond Meat is one of a number of so-called "unicorn" companies – which are privately-backed firms worth $1bn or more – to sell their shares to public investors this year.
While we discuss politics and racism there is 'humanism' to argue for – us against technology and its weaponisation and the increasing trend of technology to destroy our lives, gradually or suddenly.
Dennis F at 4 also refers to this.
And also the denial of rights and robbing of land and livelihood from people inconveniently positioned on land with uses for other people. 19th century the Highland Clearances in Scotland – large scale sheep farming over-turning the people’s smallholding-croft system.
I just watche a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
I can't find the piece I read the other day, which would have been mainstream and not dubious, but I had a google, too.
I found a few things that were roughly stating the same thing, though some looked dodgy, the like 12 posts to back their questionable science, so I won't advocate for them here.
I'm happy to be corrected by proper scientists and science, so if their consensus is termites aren't heavier methane producers than cows, so be it.
A few sites put the emissions of termites way above the 20 million tonnes figure, but note the mounds and underground networks act as filters.
Either way, I'll still eat meat, but not bug meat.
Yeah, nah, I'd rather eat that fake crap in the supermarket which costs twice as much as cow mince but with only half the flavour… Or look at rabbit, dog and cat as a cheaper, tasty alternative.
The pigs are still gonna be in trouble though. I'm only gonna give up bacon when they pry it out of my cold dead jaws.
Cats- nah. Turning sunshine into protein in plants is horribly inefficient. Taking another step and running that plant material through an animal to make meat protein just compounds the inefficiency. Taking yet another step and running animal protein through an obligate carnivore to produce slightly different animal protein compounds the inefficiency yet again.
Yeah, I can't quite get up any enthusiasm for eating invertebrates either.
While I eat very little meat, I really can't be arsed with the effort and planning needed to get the full complement of nutrients needed from a fully vege diet. But I'll be quite happy to eat vat-grown animal cells processed into burgers and sausages and mince.
Thinking about it (close to dinner time, after all), I've squished many a land bug, and none of them looked like raw prawns on the inside. Unless the goey innards turn solid when cooked, like an egg does?
Im happy to take a steak or burger for the team to get rid of all those cows, but veggies and veganauts, you animal lovers, if you plan to get rid of all the cows, are you happy to pull the trigger? And if you're not hypocritical about it, ignoring the obvious cognitive dissonance, why can't I eat what you slaughter?
Currently the methane concentration in the atmosphere is around 1900 ppb. Prior to the early 1800s it was very steady at around 700 ppb. The extra methane is responsible for somewhere around 1/4 to 1/3 the global temperature rise since the 1800s, and it's all due to human activities of various kinds, including vastly increasing the global numbers of ruminant livestock.
Yes, it's true that methane oxidises to CO2 and water in the atmosphere, with a half life of around 8 to 12 years. (Half life means every molecule emitted has a 50/50 chance of surviving one half life,and a 1:4 chance of surviving two half lives, 1:8 chance of surviving 3 etc). But while that molecule of CO2 exists in the atmosphere, it is over 100 times more effective at trapping heat then the CO2 molecule it will oxidise into.
The relatively rapid decay of methane means there's a fairly good "bucket with a hole in it" analogy for thinking about methane concentration. Imagine a bucket with a hole in it, and a tap filling it with water. The water flowing in represents the methane we're dumping into the atmosphere, the height of the water in the bucket represents methane concentration in the atmosphere, and the water flowing out represents methane getting oxidised to CO2 and water in the atmosphere. The flow of water out of the hole is a bit responsive to the water level, it flows a bit faster with a high water level, a bit slower with a low water level.
Things were fairly well in balance up to around the 1800s at a fairly low tap flow, and a fairly low level in the bucket, and a low outflow. But when we turned the tap up by finding and burning fossil fuels and increasing agriculture all across the world, the water level rose dramatically. A big part of that turning the tap up was hugely increasing numbers of ruminant livestock. Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
Yep and stop using vehicles with internal combustion engines and oil derivatives to make tyres, so rail with steel wheels and electric locomotives is our future.
What is it with you that every topic needs to somehow get turned to trains? Was your childhood spent desperately wanting a train set to play with and you never got one for Christmas?
No Cleangreen wanting trains is because of a large part of adulthood petitioning the government to grow some brains, and do the transport thing in a way that is sustainable and provides amenities that Vogel realised in early colonial times..
If you took any real interest in what people on this blog are really on about apart from just a way to keep you from ennui you would know this. I think you come from the USA and no doubt things are different there.
You don't get anything done in NZ unless you are prepared to keep on about it for a couple of decades. If you ever want anything done that is good for the country Andre, don't ever think that you will get it for Christmas because Santa will see how good and right you are. Down here in the Southern Hemisphere you have to make sure that you keep asking because your notes to Santa often get mislaid.
Wags asked about methane cycling in and out of the atmosphere and cows as a part of that cycle. Termites and methane is clearly a closely related topic. So WTF is the story with hijacking the thread to go completely off-topic to trains? It makes trying to follow the original topic and related topics very disjointed.
Especially when it's so easy to just start a new separate thread about trains. Nobody is going to object to that. But thread hijacking is a really good way to get people's backs up.
You said Andre: Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
That caught Cleangreens attention because he always reads your good comments, and then he thought of other ways to help the CC count of whatever go down plus the extra global heating reducing, and then he put in the bit about how using trains would be beneficial for that. So all quite easy to follow when you see the activist mind at work.
Trains to Gisborne and the usefulness they will have towards saving fuel and carbon credits and so on are top of the bill for Cleangreen and rightly so being more important than lots of things we discuss.
And because we have to say everything to NZ politicians and planners a thousand times before they ever hear of the idea, Cleangreen is just bringing the count up.
"Another visit from the thread purity police, lol." – yes, it's a thing.
Events seem to conspire to derail my life – why should a blog thread (on Open Mike) be any different?
Someone else will have commented (over the years), but why is it "Open Mike" (< 2 million Google matches) rather than "Open Mic" (> 17 million Google matches)? English/US difference?
[Agree that ‘thread derailing’ is poor etiquette, so apologies for derailing the derail, just for a bit of fun.]
Had just finished work and had a cantankerous manager have a crack.
I picked up a touch of snark in yr comment and that was what I was responding to.
To draw a long bow, those cows are generally about 'coz A, the are dairy and their milk leaves by truck or B, they are beef cattle and their protein leaves by truck.
You can't have your methaney livestock in isolation.
Remember, the (primary) problem is heat absorption. Because methane is 20 times more greenhousey than CO2 that part of the cycle increases global warming.
But also, some fertiliser comes from fossil sources, so reintroduces more carbon compounds into the atmosphere in addition to the cycle.
And lastly, there's the "what was the land used for previously" question: burning the rain forest to make a cattle farm releases most of the carbon that was sunk into tree mass.
So the idea of "continuous cycle" is true to a point, but contributions to GW are often not as simple as that concept would suggest.
It's a factoid that's been taken out of its relevant context and used to hokey up some special pleading for some that don't want to take responsibility and make changes.
As a standalone assertion, that methane rapidly oxidises to CO2, and that plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere to be eaten by cows that then belch methane back into the atmosphere in a continuous cycle, is correct. And it is also correct that if numbers of cows do not change (and other methane emissions do not change) then methane levels in the atmosphere won't change.
But the context needed to understand the significance of that cycle is very important. First, methane levels now are nearly triple what they were throughout all previous human history, and the methane levels we have now are incompatible with maintaining a livable climate.
The massive increase in ruminant livestock numbers we now have over what was present through all previous human history is a significant contributor to the extremely high methane levels we now have. Reducing ruminant livestock numbers is one of the easiest steps we could take to reduce methane levels.
A quick Google revealed a recent (2019) paper (in a well-respected scientific journal) that suggests scientists still don't know enough to accurately predict trends in atmospheric methane concentrations.
Interpreting contemporary trends in atmospheric methane
Alexander J. Turner, Christian Frankenberg, and Eric A. Kort
PNAS (Feb 2019) 116 (8) 2805-2813.
"We show that net-zero cost emission reductions can lead to a declining atmospheric burden, but can take three decades to stabilize."
Fuck this new editor sucks donkey dick, it seems to want to truncate the URL, hopeless.
I'll repost the comment
I put up a video about cows, methane and surprise, got accused of being a denialist
I realize this is a touchy subject, but people probably misunderstood where I was coming from, I’m not a scientist or have vast in-depth knowledge of climate change.
I posted a video which I thought was interesting as it was saying something completely different from what I’ve seen in the media and thought I’d put it up here and get feedback.
Asking questions doesn’t make one a denialist.
Now about methane
Methane concentrations have increased from around 775 parts per billion in pre-industrial times to around 1800 now, due entirely to human activities
In the video methane and ruminants(cows) was shown to be a natural cycle where methane was endlessly recycled and nothing changed and everything was kept in balance, obviously if more cattle are added then the amount of methane would increase.
So I went and had a look to see if cow/beef numbers have increased massively in the past 50 years and surprisingly they’ve been rather static.
That also got me thinking pre-industrial there must have been a shit tonne of natural ruminants like Bison, Deer etc. and before them big animals like mammoths which would have been belching out methane by the tonne as well as many wetlands which have been destroyed due to farming
The question the author was trying to answer was why methane levels didn’t start to rise until the industrial age.
According to the author One reason methane levels remained flat was that cattle and other ruminants (wild and domesticated) lived in intact grassland ecosystems and helped build healthy soils that contain soil microbes called methanotrophs that reduce atmospheric methane (2). Thus maintained grassland ecosystems function as methane sinks, and bank as much as 15% of the earth’s methane (3) Tillage for crops reduces the soil’s capacity to bank methane (as does exposed uncovered soil) plus also releases carbon into the atmosphere (4). Use of synthetic fertilizers also adversely impacts soil methanotrophs (5). Glyphosate in no tilled systems according to industry funded research doesn’t impact soil microbial activity. Though research by other researchers contradicts this industry perspective and details how herbicides like glyphosate adversely change the makeup of soil microbes (6).
If that is the case because all our dairy and beef is grass fed we do not actually have that much of an impact on global methane levels? should we even be paying carbon taxes?
Or if we do shouldn’t it be more vegetable growers and not so much farmers?
The author points the finger more at natural gas and writes.
Meanwhile the methane from fracking and natural gas extraction, transportation and refining, in general, apparently has been underestimated significantly maybe by 5 times or 500% per some recent studies on this topic (9). Not to mention China is massively increasing their use of natural gas and fracking. Coincidentally, the largest increases in methane levels occurred in the 1960’s when natural gas use increased significantly- nearly ten-fold.
Oh god we have seen that shit on here before. I'm sure it was you who posted it too. It is Friday night, give us a break for fucks sake.
Robin Grieve, Act candidate for Whangarei. Act, the only party that has ever argued that buffer zones between GE and organic farms were viable. My suggestion was napalm every 30 seconds.
<i>I just watched a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
the problem is that there are multiple sources of methane other than ruminants…a major contributor is the gas industry…which is unrelated to the flow argument and growing
It's never simple bwaghorn – about natural processes.
What do you mean they are rapidly planting the hills killing off our way of life. Do you mean that hillside pastures are being taken up by tree plantations? Pinus radiata?
I understand that the idea of planting widely allowing grazing between once the trees have got established is probably the way to go. But don't know for sure, and if so what species? Is it possible for us to not have pinus but another one kinder to the soil.
Perhaps they should be planting big bamboos – not keeping on the old mousewheel of pinus radiata because – fast and it's what we know. Couldn't there be some R&D money to help with trials for diversification that would be studied and published benefitting all with the information.
I understand that the idea of planting widely allowing grazing between once the trees have got established is probably the way to go. But don't know for sure, and if so what species? Is it possible for us to not have pinus but another one kinder to the soil.
This was put to bed with a lot of trials by the old Forest Service in the 70's.
Result – crap trees due to the wide spacing leading to too much branch / canopy and crap pasture due to the shading and water draw by the trees. I think most of the trials were abandoned after less than 15 years, at least the one I had a little to do with at Tikitere was.
That is interesting. So can't put trees in for plantation purposes wide spread. What if the trees were like tagstase? and the animals could both graze grass and the tree, and get shade, and the farmer have some advantage from carbon credits from the tree left in situ? Shade is going to be something that cannot be ignored with the advent of CC becoming hot as hell out there, which would be a variable not high at the time of the trials you referred to.
What do you say about the scenario I put together for possible adoption in the coming years. I guess the old Forest Service in the 70's was still steeped in p.radiata, so different tree – different result perhaps. And edible. And maybe more opportunity for understorey growth with other tree types as I think pinus kills and dries off undergrowth.
Heard of an area that has lost 100 000 stock units to trees lately . At roughly 1 job per 5000 stock units thats a massive whole in the community. Less kids in schools less partners doing other work . Etc .
That's a giant change of finances. Not much coming in for 20-30 years so who would be parking so much finance in the trees for that long, and they might burn down. Would they get insurance in the first place?
Even when foreign money or aggregation of farms happens, there are managers and workers required. Going into trees like that will certainly take people out of the area.
Professor Sir John Curtice, "polling expert": "There have been some remarkably good figures for the Greens so far, who on average are running at 12% of the vote in the wards that they are fighting, up 5 points on their performance in last year's local elections."
Update from Curtice: "Note that in contrast to the position for Labour, compared with 2015 the Conservative vote is down much more heavily in the south of England (by 8 points) as compared with the north of England (by 2 points). If this pattern continues then Tory losses in the south of England tomorrow could still prove to be quite substantial."
Labour are tanking at the moment, with 2 councils lost and -50 councillors.
They may yet, even though polling at around 30%, win a general election, though it'll be more down to Farrage and his brexit it party bleeding support from the Tories at about 18% nationally.
The lib dems are the nights winners, so far, which may also impede on labour in those 3 way seats they need to win to take a majority at parliament.
Welfare working group report just released. Perfectly reasonable recommendations but given this report only exists as part of the confidence & supply agreement with the Greens and would never have happened otherwise, it's safe to say the vast majority of it will be watered down, delayed or totally ignored, especially the raising of the core benefit rates.
Keep questioning I think and they won't be able to get away with a watered down version. It sounds so promising that i feel tremendously hopeful. If there is a spark of old Labour to be dug around and watered, it might send up shoots and flower. A thing of beauty and a joy forever.
Beneficiaries who work will be able to earn more before their pay is docked, and the sanction against solo mothers who don't name the father of their children will be scrapped, as the government begins its overhaul of the welfare system.
If bennies can earn much more, then they can get themselves onto the work train when possible. If they can get child sitting during school holidays then they can work that into an earning scheme that will provide those needed shoes, the sports gear, the inclusion of their kids in events at school.
And not naming the father gives them the option of not including a ne'er-do-well into the family life the mother is trying to build. He may know himself but won't have the department after him for money and it is better if the aim is to help the mother to become self-sustaining which is a good role model for the youngsters. Not having a druggie, alcoholic or play-acting father around, will make for stability and will be likely to cut into the stats for domestic violence. There is choice involved as to whether to have occasional visits or not if the father is a degenerate or just unreliable. It is a blow to a child if a visit is set up and the child is ready and waiting, and the father doesn't turn up, or is drunk and disorderly, or is subtly demeaning of the mother’s efforts so the child is left idolising the idea of him as generous, and the mother as being unworthy, and not to be fully loved which would cut into the mutual support that builds good family ties and relationships.
National bereft of effective positive ideas as usual with their usual expressions of negativity. Louise Upston with this one:
"National disagrees with the bulk of the report, which would see fewer obligations imposed on beneficiaries and fewer incentives to get back into work.
They still haven't caught up with womens lib yet. To them it was university women's lib, so they could grab the well-paying jobs when available that came with perks like maternity leave. Ordinary women were neither to share this bounty, or receive the respect due to mothers and partners trying to bring up healthy children, with values of honesty and kindness, with hope for a skilled job at a decent wage. 'Dragging up your kids' is the disparaging view of better-off National looking at lower income people's efforts, and they fund to match and perpetuate that malign view.
@Grey- my view of welfare does tend to be through the illness/disability lens, ie the one that rarely gets mentioned. Incentives to work mean absolutely nothing to a lot of us, but being able to pay for medical treatment without starving, does. That's not to say I'm not interested in what else is happening in general, but we don't tend to rate much of a mention. Besides, it's hard for the bashers to have a direct attack at us so no air time in the media either. I wish I could join you in feeling hopeful. But history dictates that, even if a few positive changes occur over the next few years, as soon as the government changes again- and being NZ it inevitably will- the first thing the Nats will do is attack welfare.
Something slightly amusing though- I noticed Stuff had opened their comments section for this story, so I posted a comment reminding them about their new policy of not opening stories about beneficiaries for comments, and was the temptation to let back in the bashers too much for them? Funnily enough the comments are now closed 🙂
After reading your and Rosemarys comments i realise that I don't know much about the disability allowance. The welfare net has been set far too high for anyone to be able to fall into it for years. The stupid way that supplements etc were set up should have been adjusted for inflation at the beginning and often were not.
Anyway here is a cute little UK ad from the past about finding work that the increased front line staff might copy.
Jobs for women.
We might get something in the Budget but Ms Sepuloni doesn't sound promising. 'Staged implementation' makes me think of a performance of Shakespeares 'All's Well that Ends Well' .
Some improvement…getting rid of the sanction for solo mums who don't name the father and increase the amount earned before abatement but….sweet fa for anyone else.
However, Sepuloni said the Government had decided against a recommended move to increase benefit levels by up to 47 per cent immediately so Kiwis could "live in dignity", and was instead "looking at a staged implementation" of change.
It would also allocate $76.3 million for 263 new frontline staff with the sole "focus of helping more people into meaningful and sustainable work".
So, it looks like more of the arbeit mach frei that the Nats were so fond of.
When I saw the headline you linked to Kay I thought of you. I've said this before, but when Peter graduated from the Supported Living Payment to the Super we were actually able to save a few dollars while living almost full time in our Bus and largely free camping.
That is how much difference there is between the SLP and Super.
Maybe they're saving something for those on SLP as a Budget day headline?
@Rosemary, I'd like to think so but it seems pretty clear they're not going to increase any of the core benefits. The one thing they could do (and it wouldn't upset most of the voters either) is getting rid of that pathetic cap on the disability allowance, $62/week or whatever it is now. It hasn't been lifted for years. That would help a lot without having to roll things over onto TAS etc, minimise paperwork.
My rent is now $30/week more than my core benefit so I'm existing entirely off the supplements which I'm maxed out on, and I doubt I'm alone…
Key recommendations of the welfare expert advisory group:
Increase main benefits by between 12 percent and 47 percent
Remove some benefit obligations and sanctions
Fully index all income support payments and thresholds annually to movements in average wages of prices, whichever is the greater
Index accommodation supplement rates to movements in housing costs
Consider introducing a living alone payment that contributes to the additional costs of adults living alone
Reform Working for Families
Reform supplementary assistance and hardship assistance so they are adequate
Ensure sufficient resourcing for frontline services
Help recipients of sole parent support return to part-time work when their youngest child is six years old
Prioritise a reduction in outstanding benefit debt through sustainable repayments and minimise the creation of overpayments, including reviewing recoverable hardship assistance grants
Instigate a cross-government approach to managing debt to government agencies
Seems the government has largely ignored pretty much all of the suggestions.
Mostly interested in happy- clappy headline grabbers.
You sound very religious Gabby. I guess we will all give thanks and prayers for their happy future together, both trying to multi-task, in a balanced modern relationship.
Do you mean so he can get his parliamentary super? I think Winston is so super that has been allocated long ago. And I think he deserves it as he has kept on making politics look vital and meaningful, at least some;times.
"Once you get on to the third or more sequential contract, the person who's on the one-year contract that has been sequentially agreed starts to have an ongoing expectation of employment,"Kiely says.
Except those pesky housing targets won't be met, the trees won't be planted and those child poverdy markers going the wrong direction isn't anything to be pleased about
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.
Thanks Cinny and Anne, for some decency. I am missing veteuviper and find much of the comment on here a little depressing and very sour, so I am on holiday for a while from the Standard, and I notice a few other absences. Cheers.
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.
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Only those who close their eyes and minds to the evidence can still be in any doubt that we are facing a climate change crisis. The evidence is conclusive that the world is not only getting inexorably hotter, but also that the rising temperatures are creating a number of other ...
Opportunities to dodge tax are shrinking with the completion of a new tax agreement with Switzerland, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Mr Nash and the Swiss Ambassador David Vogelsanger have today signed documents to update the double tax agreement (DTA). The previous DTA was signed in 1980. “Double tax ...
Heart-warming images of House Speaker Trevor Mallard cradling a baby in Parliament have been welcomed around New Zealand, but the Public Service Association warns most families can only dream of such support in the workplace. ...
Applying New Zealand’s international human rights commitments, particularly those in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, can help in resolving the situation at Ihumātao, Chief Human Rights Commissioner Paul Hunt says. ...
Climate campaigners impersonating bank staff have taken to the streets this week to expose ANZ Bank’s sponsorship of the fossil fuel industry. In the series of satirical actions in Wellington, Dunedin, and Auckland, the ‘bank staff’ promoted ...
Auckland Action Against Poverty joins the Children’s Commissioner , The Green Party , The New Zealand Drugs Foundation , Child Poverty Action Group and other organisations in the calls for an immediate end to the drug testing benefit sanctions. ...
Negotiations between Port Otago workers represented by the Rail and Maritime Transport Union (RMTU) and the Maritime Union of New Zealand (MUNZ) and management failed today and the unions have issued notice of an overtime ban from Saturday 7th September. ...
Queenstown Lakes District Council’s comments that it has applied for a consent to pollute waterways to avoid 'prosecutions by the Otago Regional Council' are unacceptable,’ Fish & Game New Zealand Chief Executive Martin Taylor says. ...
On March 15, the real world impact of online hate became abundantly, horrifically clear. As a shooter opened fire at two Christchurch mosques, the online image board 8chan anticipated, celebrated and amplified his killing spree. ...
Friday, 23 August: Government delegates from around the world, including New Zealand, are meeting in New York for the third of four meetings at the United Nations to agree a Global Oceans Treaty that could help to protect 30% of our oceans by 2030. Greenpeace ...
The excuses about a reportedly unwanted $57,000 payrise for Dunedin City Council CEO Sue Bidrose are laughable, says the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union. ...
The Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance has launched the “Ratepayer Protection Pledge” committing to no more than 2% annual rate hikes over the next Council term, and has written to all Mayoral and Council candidates asking them to sign. The pledge will ...
This Saturday, Pakuranga Hunt Day at the Ellerslie Racecourse will see anti-horse racing protesters demonstrating at the corner of Ascot Avenue and Greenlane East. ...
Mayoral candidate John Tamihere will meet with Pacific Island leaders and community elders today at Puhunui Reserve in South Auckland to commit to a Pasefika Cultural Centre. ...
Cruel and invalid Forced Swim Tests carried out at Victoria University of Wellington, will be exposed at the University Open Day today, so prospective students can be warned about the flawed and unethical research being conducted at the institute. ...
The organiser of the annual YWCA Equal Pay Awards has expressed her disappointment with the latest Gender Pay Gap figure for New Zealand workers. The figure rose slightly from 9.2% in 2018 to 9.3% for the quarter ended 30 June 2019. ...
The Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO) is urging firearms owners to pass on information to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques now that the period for submissions has been extended to 27 September. ...
An application was filed in the Employment Relations Authority in Wellington today, seeking an injunction to prevent the Board of the New Zealand Nurses Organisation from removing the President from office. ...
The Government’s commitment to support literacy and numeracy training in the workplace is a strong signal from Government on recognising the importance of upskilling, reskilling and increasing productivity alongside their commitment to address the challenges ...
“The infrastructure sector sees a major role for the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission/Te Waihanga in lifting the nation’s sagging infrastructure performance,” says Paul Blair, incoming CEO of Infrastructure NZ. ...
The AA is calling on the Government to bring forward critical highway projects while time is spent properly developing the plans for a rapid transit system in Auckland. ...
Between 2015/16 and 2017/18, DHBs spent $280 million treating patients due to adverse drug reactions, reveals the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union in its latest briefing paper on health productivity . ...
The Pay Equity Coalition Auckland (PECA) is pleased the gender pay gap has decreased slightly. Statistics released today show the gap is now 11.9%, nearly 2 percent less than last year. ...
The Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO) is urging firearms owners to make sure they pass on any information they have to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques before submissions close tomorrow (Friday). ...
The big electricity companies consider solar energy “disruptive” and want pricing to suppress it. In contrast, advocates of local energy say that solar, energy efficiency, and other local energy solutions are the cheapest ways to reduce carbon emissions. ...
The Earthquake Commission and Shine Lawyers are delighted to announce that EQC has reached an agreement with the Gibling family, agreeing to cover the cost of repairs of remaining earthquake damage on their property. ...
Four months into the inquiry, the Royal Commission is gathering significant information and continues to receive valuable submissions from the public, from current and former State servants, experts and community groups. ...
While Fish & Game New Zealand is pleased to see Federated Farmers Environment Spokesperson Chris Allen say that 'we all want good, fresh water', he conveniently overlooks some key facts. ...
What: Wellington demo “Save the Amazon Forest/Salve a Amazônia!” When: Friday, 6 September 2019 from 12:30-13:30 Where: Embassy of Brazil in Wellingtona ...
Rt Hon Trevor Mallard, Speaker of the New Zealand House of Representatives, welcomes the visit of His Excellency Eduardo Ferro Rodrigues, President of the Assembly of the Republic of Portugal. ...
A cross political Mental Health and Addictions Wellbeing group will be launched on Wednesday 28 August hosted by Sir John Kirwan and Moe Milne (ONZM) who have both been at the forefront of our country’s often difficult conversations about mental ...
Confirmation that the government will be progressing an independent Parliamentary Budget Office is great news for democracy and transparency, Federated Farmers says. ...
At first glance, Simon Bridges’ strident opposition to the government’s proposal to establish an independent office to cost political parties’ election spending plans looks childish and petty. ...
Euthanasia-Free NZ is appalled that Parliament spent so little time debating Part 2 of the End of Life Choice Bill and voted to leave it full of holes. ...
Jordan Williams, a spokesman for the Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance and its nationwide sister group the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is slamming Auckland Mayor Phil Goff for his comments today that John Tamihere would need the Government’s support to ...
A ‘one size fits all’, inflexible and punitive regulatory regime for water quality just gets backs - and costs - up and most importantly will not work, Federated Farmers says. ...
Mediation yesterday between secondary principals and the government has resulted in a deal that the principals' negotiating team is recommending to its members. ...
Clubs New Zealand welcomes the decision of Justice Minister Andrew Little to put forward a bill amending the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act to allow all licensed premises to remain open for Rugby World Cup matches. ...
The Australia and New Zealand Ministerial Forum on Food Regulation has ordered a review looking at labelling of added sugars in food and drinks. An option under investigation is ‘a pictorial approach applied to sugary beverages / sugar-sweetened beverages’ ...
Labour market data released by Statistics New Zealand today indicates that a gender pay gap persists in New Zealand, despite improvement in some areas. ...
In the midst of the 6th Great Extinction Event the coalition, STOP Trashing Our Planet is urging voters to take full responsibility for the legacy we are leaving our children. ...
LGNZ will carefully consider the proposed National Policy Statement on Urban Development (NPS-UD) to assess if it meets the Government’s aim of enabling urban development or simply adds more red tape to the planning process. ...
Statistics out today from the Government show that the gender wage imbalance, or gap, in the average wage is 11.9%, a strong 2 percentage point improvement from 13.9% last year. The gender pay imbalance in the median wage is 9.3%. ...
Newstalk ZB Drive host and Herald on Sunday columnist Heather du Plessis-Allan is taking on the challenge of keeping 2019 Auckland Mayoral contenders Phil Goff and John Tamihere in line and on point in tonight’s live NZ Herald Newstalk ZB debate. ...
After twenty years Napier residents have endured heavy sleep and health disruptive noise and air pollution from freight trucks gridlock operations to and from the Napier port and other regions. ...
The EMA says much is riding on the board and chief executive of the new National Infrastructure Commission (NIC) announced by Infrastructure Minister Hon Shane Jones today, with a difficult task ahead to deliver on its purpose. ...
Combatting internet-related harm is being stymied by inter-industry disagreement and a lack of information about the extent and nature of the problem, a new report says. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Harcourt, J.W. Nevile Fellow in Economics and host of The Airport Economist, UNSW Amid the tributes to former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer and the stories of his authenticity, courage and quirky interests – like trains and military history – what ...
Current leader of the National Party, Simon Bridges.Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – Is Simon Bridges really trying to channel Donald Trump? Or is he taking his cue from Scott Morrison? Or is he looking to emulate Boris Johnson? Whatever the inspiration, there’s been a clear change in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra [embedded content]Michelle Grattan talks about the sad news of the passing of former Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer with University of Canberra Vice-Chancellor Professor Deep Saini. They also discuss Scott Morrison’s recent announcement about joining ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gabriel Crowley, Adjunct Principal Research Fellow, James Cook University In February, about 600,000 cattle were killed by catastrophic flooding across north Queensland’s Carpentaria Gulf plains. The flood waters rose suddenly, forming a wall of water up to 70km wide. Record depths were ...
Simon Day dined alone at Monique Fiso’s Wellington restaurant Hiakai, and discovered it was the perfect way to appreciate the meaning of this special food. “Would you like a few more minutes with your phone?” the waitress at Hiakai asked sympathetically as I mashed a final goodbye text to my wife ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Willamson, Adjunct Senior Research Fellow, Monash University Australia’s gender pay gap is diminishing, says a new report, but some contributors to it seem harder to overcome than others. For me, the finding hit close to home. The report, by KPMG for ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Te Tiriti o Waitangi: The Treaty of Waitangi by Toby Morris with Ross Calman, Mark Derby, and ...
Honey producer Comvita has confirmed a full year net loss of $27.7m with China market access restrictions and tougher regulations locally affecting the company's sales. ...
James Elliott realises John Tamihere's uncosted bridge proposal wasn't actually a metaphor, but a fine example of 'folks is mighty generous with money what they ain’t got'. ...
A new poem by Oamaru-born poet Nick Ascroft.SupermanHalfway up the ascent zigzagging from Royal Terrace to upper Stuart Street carrying four too-heavy grocery bags I begin to understand that I will not make it. My huffing personage – from the fingers, white with the strain, to a face the colour of rhubarb – will ooze into the pavement and roll slowly ...
The Real Pod assembles to dissect the week in reality television and real life, with special thanks to Nando’s.Sound the alarm, because it’s time for another absolute chaos pod. We’re talking haunted dolls in Waipu, we’re talking giant hands taking over Wellington, we’re talking soft serve cones dipped in powdered Milo. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Press, Adjunct Professor, Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies, University of Tasmania This week, the ABC revealed that the Australian Defence Force wants to roll out military technology in Antarctica. The article raises the issue of what is, or is not, ...
New Zealand teacher aides say their pay reflects an outdated idea of what they do. Elizabeth McLeod hears from four TAs, and one parent, about the classroom realities they face every dayCleaning up poo, defusing violent situations, copping physical and verbal abuse: these are the realities of a teacher aide’s ...
The lanky sidekick from Jono and Ben journeys around New Zealand trying to solve small town problems. Does he succeed?Guy Williams, hardly a shy, retiring type, has been screaming out for his own vehicle for years. A loud, lanky, fearless comic, he’s spent nearly a decade in MediaWorks purgatory, sat ...
Ballot Box.Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – The nature of New Zealand general election campaigns could be significantly changed with the proposed establishment of an “umpire” to adjudicate over political party manifesto policies. A suggestion has been put forward by the Government for the establishment of a parliamentary watchdog ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Ihumātao Delphine Herbert and Dan Satherley (Newshub): Tainui to buy Ihumātao land – sources Danielle ...
Extinction Rebellion takes a tour of downtown Wellington to point out the coal industry stalwarts and ask why they’re still there in the face of a climate emergency. “There are coal companies in Wellington??”That’s the incredulous response every single time we mention taking the public on a tour of the biggest ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel A. Ankeny, Professor of History and Philosophy, and Deputy Dean Research (Faculty of Arts), University of Adelaide The South Australian government recently announced its intention to lift the long-standing statewide moratorium on genetically modified (GM) crops, following a statutory six-week consultation ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vicki Sentas, Senior Lecturer, UNSW Law, UNSW Being strip searched by the police can be intrusive, humiliating and harmful. Typically, strip searches involve being required to strip naked in front of police officers, who often give the direction to “squat and cough”, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Louise Remond, Clinical Psychologist, University of Technology Sydney Hi, I was just wondering if something’s wrong with me because I’m never happy and never want to do anything and I’m getting really lazy and I really hate school. Thanks – Anonymous ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Zaphir, Researcher for the University of Queensland Critical Thinking Project; and Online Teacher at Education Queensland’s IMPACT Centre, The University of Queensland From as early as Grade 3 teachers start teaching children how to put across their own points of view. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Holden, Professor of Economics, UNSW It’s four years since then Prime Minister Tony Abbott warned Australia had been heading to “a Greek-style economic future”. He was referring to what he said had been happening under the previous Labor government. When Labor ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samia Khatun, Senior Lecturer, SOAS, University of London Some 1,000 kilometres inland from Sydney, over the Blue Mountains, past the trees that drink the tributaries of the Darling River, there stands a little, red mosque. It marks where the desert begins. The ...
Online gambling is growing fast in New Zealand, but critics say new government ideas for regulating websites focus on what's good for the industry, rather than protecting people from harm. ...
An "extreme pro-Beijing" writer has caused controversy in the Chinese community and awkwardness for the Labour Party by standing for political office in Auckland. ...
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Concern about slow progress for major transport projects, smoking researcher under pressure over funding, and hikoi marches from Ihumātao to Ardern’s office.NZTA is struggling to get spending out the door, so the money isn’t flowing through the economy, reports Thomas Coughlan ...
Speaker of the House Trevor Mallard will look at whether people making submissions on proposed law changes should be forced to disclose conflicts of interest. ...
Rugby and league legend Honey Hireme has put all her careers on hold - including her Warriors debut - to take care of her mum, who has terminal cancer. ...
In the ongoing battle to prevent 480 houses being built on ancestral land, a petition with more than 26,000 signatures was delivered to the Prime Minister’s Mt Albert office yesterday. Leonie Hayden was there.Lead by the inimitable Pania Newton, about 100 kaitiaki set off from Ihumātao near Māngere yesterday morning ...
Every scholarship exam and approximately every two external assessments are wrapped in their own single-use plastic bag. We’re asking the NZQA to cut it out, writes year-13 student Sophia HoneyEvery year after an exam, I see the same conversation happen. Friends turn to each other, talk about how difficult that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Even Scott Morrison, with his abundant self-belief, couldn’t have imagined that on Saturday’s first anniversary of his seizing the prime ministership, he’d be winging his way to France for a G7 meeting, where Australia has ...
A group of students, including some Youth MPs, have been banned from Parliament for a year, after singing a waiata in the public gallery in support of the Ihumātao hīkoi. ...
National MP Nick Smith has lodged a serious accusation against Parliament's Speaker calling him "biased" after once again being booted out of the debating chamber. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sunanda Creagh, Head of Digital Storytelling Last weekend, hundreds of thousands of people again took to the streets in Hong Kong to protest against the government – the 11th straight weekend of demonstrations that began in June over a proposed extradition bill. ...
Open mike 03/05/2019 
A Long Time Ago, In A Parallel Universe Far, Far Away: The political journalist scratched his head in confusion. Only then did he notice the name of the building: ‘The Jacinda Ardern Presidential Library and Public Resource Centre’. Making his way inside to the information desk, he asked the librarian ...5 hours ago
6 hours ago
Nothing from me tody - I'm off to Christchurch to pretend to be other people for a weekend. Normal bloggage should resume on Tuesday. ...7 hours ago
Spark is bracing for a customer backlash as rugby fans all across the country struggle to get a picture on their wireless router. With the Rugby World Cup fast approaching, an elderly Taranaki couple are furious after being told that they still won’t be able to watch the tournament, even ...20 hours ago
Several explosions have been reported across Auckland, as well-meaning environmentalists have already begun purchasing too much petrol Starting from next week, customers will no longer need a car to purchase petrol directly from the pump, a development that two major fuel providers are billing as an opportunity to help fight ...20 hours ago
A new study claims to find that a mother’s exposure to fluoridated water during pregnancy may decrease the IQ of male children – but is it correct? (Photo: Getty Images) Anti-fluoride campaigners are promoting ... 22 hours ago
Television advertising has a huge impact on our lives. Even if we don’t recognise that, we know it has to be true, since otherwise why would advertisers spend so much on it? Its significance, however, is greater than simply the influence it has on what we purchase and consume. It ...2 days ago
by Jan Rivers More than 30 years ago a Commission of Inquiry was held in New Zealand to investigate, amongst other things, whether women with cervical cancer were aware that they had been part of a research project and whether they were properly informed of the treatment options ...3 days ago
Everyone Wants To Be Fuhrer: When fascist groups are discussed, the image conjured-up in the minds of most New Zealanders is one of pathetic misfits. This negative impression is reinforced by the latter’s idiotic embrace of the swastika. Even in the second decade of the twenty-first century, the baleful legacy ...3 days ago
In the previous two posts, I laid out the context and set the theoretical framework to answer a question: whether indigenous economies should take the LEAP. This final part outlines ways to conceive of practicing mana motuhake within the existing legal system by carving out special jurisdictions that enable Indigenous ...5 days ago
Fully Informed? Labour’s 2017 promises raised expectations that were little short of revolutionary. Unfortunately, they were never adequately shaken through the fiscal sieve. The hard economic work was not done – and it shows. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s critics have long complained that her grasp of the way the New ...5 days ago
You cannot expect to pound communities into the ground day after day, year after year, decade after decade and just expect them to take it lying down. There’s a point at which the place will explode. And we’re faced with some very big ructions on both sides of the Atlantic ...7 days ago
1 week ago
Going Down? Once truth and propaganda become fused in the minds of one’s followers, debate and discussion become redundant. If one’s opponents are all outrageous liars, then engaging with them in any way is pointless. Rather than waste its time, a political party should, instead, target all its messages at ...1 week ago
We need to fundamentally reframe our systems settings to address the drivers causing and underpinning inequality; structural change in systems especially financial. The Equality Network Hui was held in Wellington on 27 June 2019. The hui covered important topics such as child poverty; a living wage; taxation; public health; mental ...1 week ago
The views-per-page for some of my recent postings:Depressing, isn't it? Provide thoughtful and wise commentary on the mainstream of British politics and no-one notices. Make a passing reference to Tommy DICKHEAD Robinson in a thread title and you get hundreds of views. Write something about anti-Semitism and you get another ...1 week ago
The government has announced plans to move the Treaty of Waitangi and other taonga to a new site. Great news! So where are they going? Right next to the old one:The new plan will see a new 22,000-square-metre archive built on the former site of Defence House - the former ...1 week ago
Back in June, StatsNZ went public about a project to track population data on an hourly level by using people's cellphones. It wasn't as bad as it initially looked - they were receiving no individual data, only counts by suburb - but there was still a huge consent problem, so ...1 week ago
I did an interview on the TVNZ Breakfast Show about the situation in Hong Kong. I tried to frame the issue as a collective action problem between two sides with very different end games. The video is here. Because of time constraints we could not discuss the fact that the ...1 week ago
Image Credit: Wild Rose College A new study reporting the ranges of values for kidney and liver parameters in a healthy population is being actively misrepresented by anti-fluoride campaigners. The Fluoride Action Network’s (FAN) latest ... 1 week ago
Alone, Alone. All, All Alone: Will it be a good or a bad thing, when humanity’s bright blue spacecraft is stricken by the civilisation-destroying problem of Climate Change, that no Huston Control will be standing-by to rescue the crew?“WE HAVE A PROBLEM, HUSTON.” These were the words used by the ...1 week ago
Divided Loyalties: Can the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, be relied upon? That’s what the boys and girls at Foggy Bottom and the Pentagon needed to be reassured about. Because, from the perspective of Washington, it’s looking more and more like Jacinda Ardern and her Labour Party comrades are getting ready ...2 weeks ago
This handy Queer Theory Glossary is from thetranswidow.com In case you’ve had trouble keeping up with the spate of new queer theory terms, here’s a handy glossary for your reference. Queer – A straight person with an interesting haircut. Non-binary/genderqueer – A chubby young female, typically 16-28, who has ...2 weeks ago
The winter grazing issue is becoming a highly sensitised one that I hope will not become so politicised that it delays solutions and results in the suicides of some very stressed farmers.Winter grazing has hit the headlines after a determined campaign, including the release of a video of some very ...2 weeks ago
The Green Part has been accused of lack of transparency in two recent situations. The first was the claimed media lockdown during Green's annual conference and the second was Julie Ann Genter's refusal to release a letter she had sent to Phil Twyford.I do get frustrated when journalist's succumb to ...2 weeks ago
Opportunities to dodge tax are shrinking with the completion of a new tax agreement with Switzerland, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Mr Nash and the Swiss Ambassador David Vogelsanger have today signed documents to update the double tax agreement (DTA). The previous DTA was signed in 1980. “Double tax ...2 weeks ago
Heart-warming images of House Speaker Trevor Mallard cradling a baby in Parliament have been welcomed around New Zealand, but the Public Service Association warns most families can only dream of such support in the workplace. ...2 hours ago
Combatting internet-related harm is being stymied by inter-industry disagreement and a lack of information about the extent and nature of the problem, a new report says. ...29 mins ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Harcourt, J.W. Nevile Fellow in Economics and host of The Airport Economist, UNSW Amid the tributes to former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer and the stories of his authenticity, courage and quirky interests – like trains and military history – what ...1 hour ago
1 hour ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra [embedded content]Michelle Grattan talks about the sad news of the passing of former Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer with University of Canberra Vice-Chancellor Professor Deep Saini. They also discuss Scott Morrison’s recent announcement about joining ...2 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gabriel Crowley, Adjunct Principal Research Fellow, James Cook University In February, about 600,000 cattle were killed by catastrophic flooding across north Queensland’s Carpentaria Gulf plains. The flood waters rose suddenly, forming a wall of water up to 70km wide. Record depths were ...2 hours ago
Simon Day dined alone at Monique Fiso’s Wellington restaurant Hiakai, and discovered it was the perfect way to appreciate the meaning of this special food. “Would you like a few more minutes with your phone?” the waitress at Hiakai asked sympathetically as I mashed a final goodbye text to my wife ...2 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Willamson, Adjunct Senior Research Fellow, Monash University Australia’s gender pay gap is diminishing, says a new report, but some contributors to it seem harder to overcome than others. For me, the finding hit close to home. The report, by KPMG for ...3 hours ago
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Te Tiriti o Waitangi: The Treaty of Waitangi by Toby Morris with Ross Calman, Mark Derby, and ...3 hours ago
Honey producer Comvita has confirmed a full year net loss of $27.7m with China market access restrictions and tougher regulations locally affecting the company's sales. ...3 hours ago
James Elliott realises John Tamihere's uncosted bridge proposal wasn't actually a metaphor, but a fine example of 'folks is mighty generous with money what they ain’t got'. ...4 hours ago
Fees for company directors are not keeping pace with their rising workload, according to a new survey. ...6 hours ago
New Zealand teacher aides say their pay reflects an outdated idea of what they do. Elizabeth McLeod hears from four TAs, and one parent, about the classroom realities they face every dayCleaning up poo, defusing violent situations, copping physical and verbal abuse: these are the realities of a teacher aide’s ...6 hours ago
The Warehouse Group has upgraded its full year profit expectations again. ...6 hours ago
New Zealand-owned Kiwibank says it is winning more customers, demonstrated by a strong increase in deposits and lending. ...6 hours ago
A community representative in Auckland says she's been sidelined by her peers after posting photos online with Green and Labour party MPs. ...7 hours ago
Dairy's huge role earning export dollars for New Zealand is facing a threat some say could bring it to its knees. ...9 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vicki Sentas, Senior Lecturer, UNSW Law, UNSW Being strip searched by the police can be intrusive, humiliating and harmful. Typically, strip searches involve being required to strip naked in front of police officers, who often give the direction to “squat and cough”, ...9 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Louise Remond, Clinical Psychologist, University of Technology Sydney Hi, I was just wondering if something’s wrong with me because I’m never happy and never want to do anything and I’m getting really lazy and I really hate school. Thanks – Anonymous ...9 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Zaphir, Researcher for the University of Queensland Critical Thinking Project; and Online Teacher at Education Queensland’s IMPACT Centre, The University of Queensland From as early as Grade 3 teachers start teaching children how to put across their own points of view. ...9 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Holden, Professor of Economics, UNSW It’s four years since then Prime Minister Tony Abbott warned Australia had been heading to “a Greek-style economic future”. He was referring to what he said had been happening under the previous Labor government. When Labor ...9 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samia Khatun, Senior Lecturer, SOAS, University of London Some 1,000 kilometres inland from Sydney, over the Blue Mountains, past the trees that drink the tributaries of the Darling River, there stands a little, red mosque. It marks where the desert begins. The ...9 hours ago
Online gambling is growing fast in New Zealand, but critics say new government ideas for regulating websites focus on what's good for the industry, rather than protecting people from harm. ...9 hours ago
More than 100,000 Chinese citizens have studied in New Zealand in the past 20 years. ...9 hours ago
An "extreme pro-Beijing" writer has caused controversy in the Chinese community and awkwardness for the Labour Party by standing for political office in Auckland. ...10 hours ago
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Concern about slow progress for major transport projects, smoking researcher under pressure over funding, and hikoi marches from Ihumātao to Ardern’s office.NZTA is struggling to get spending out the door, so the money isn’t flowing through the economy, reports Thomas Coughlan ...10 hours ago
New Zealand's only national book sales chart, as recorded by Nielsen BookScan New Zealand and described by Steve Braunias. ...11 hours ago
A ban on fossil fuel vehicle imports from 2035 was set to go to Cabinet, before a change of heart. ...12 hours ago
Rugby and league legend Honey Hireme has put all her careers on hold - including her Warriors debut - to take care of her mum, who has terminal cancer. ...12 hours ago
The IPCC's Mark Howden speaks to Eloise Gibson about Aussie farmers' growing acceptance of climate change and his take on NZ’s methane debate. ...12 hours ago
NZ can't spare naval ships to help a US-led mission near Iran - but there's a good chance we don't need them at all. ...12 hours ago
In the ongoing battle to prevent 480 houses being built on ancestral land, a petition with more than 26,000 signatures was delivered to the Prime Minister’s Mt Albert office yesterday. Leonie Hayden was there.Lead by the inimitable Pania Newton, about 100 kaitiaki set off from Ihumātao near Māngere yesterday morning ...12 hours ago
Every scholarship exam and approximately every two external assessments are wrapped in their own single-use plastic bag. We’re asking the NZQA to cut it out, writes year-13 student Sophia HoneyEvery year after an exam, I see the same conversation happen. Friends turn to each other, talk about how difficult that ...12 hours ago
Polls world wide suggest the Holocaust is being forgotten. A NZ survivor is working to make sure it isn't. ...12 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Even Scott Morrison, with his abundant self-belief, couldn’t have imagined that on Saturday’s first anniversary of his seizing the prime ministership, he’d be winging his way to France for a G7 meeting, where Australia has ...18 hours ago
By distorting the climate truth Federated Farmers is making its members complacent about their performance and blind to the threats they face. ...19 hours ago
ANALYSIS: By Camellia Webb-Gannon of the University of Wollongong Last weekend, the Indonesian police took 43 West Papuan students into custody for allegedly disrespecting the Indonesian flag during an independence day celebration (an allegation the students deny). Police stormed the students’ dorm and used teargas to force them out, ...20 hours ago
Morning all. Juan Guaido here. That's G U A I D O, in case you're not familiar with the spelling. It's now or never. Operation "Enduring Hydrocarbons" enters a new phase today. Our removal of the illegitimate dictatorship starts at 11.30am outside Devonport Naval Base. Get along there Aucklanders! Bring a packed lunch and a rain jacket. Cash donations also welcome.
Avengers: Endgame for scientists.
Gravitational waves hunt now in overdrive
Is it even possible for Maori to be racist towards each other? Some folks seem to believe it is: "National Party deputy leader Paula Bennett has accused Minister Willie Jackson of racism, saying he questioned whether she's Māori enough." https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/willie-jackson-paula-bennett-locked-in-fierce-racism-row.html
And how can we tell if someone is Maori enough anyway? Genetic analysis? Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census? Interesting road opening up here, but ought we to head down it?
"Jackson's Labour Māori caucus colleague Peeni Henare went further, actually questioning whether Bennett is Māori enough." Big call, claiming the second question is further than the first, but that's journalists for you. Just questions so far. No actual judgments.
"I haven't seen her contribution to the community for Māori kaupapa, I haven't seen her on the marae, I haven't seen her dry dishes, I haven't seen her do a karanga – therefore, it should be raising the question," he said.
Henare manages to tick at least two boxes with this. Bennett (who is a sad apology for a human being) is condemned as being not Maori enough by a Maori male because she doesn't behave the way he thinks a Maori woman should?
Sigh.
Criticise the woman for her many, many appalling words and actions as a politician, but damning her because she fails to fit his view of an acceptable Maori woman is a sacking offense.
Stupid men. Poor Ardern having to sort this one out.
Turns out there was context that the Newshub report didn't mention: "How does he [Jackson] determine whether the Māori in the Mana in Mahi programme are Māori enough to be counted?" she asked after Jackson said of the 143 clients have been placed in the programme 75 participants – some 52 per cent – identify as Māori."
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12227351
Henare's position is also expanded here: ""blood quantum simply isn't enough" when it comes to being Māori. "I've always felt that you have to reach a threshold of need, participation and contribution in Māori Kaupapa. If you don't, of course, questions are going to be raised." He said he was "more than happy" for those questions to be raised of anybody who claims to be Māori who does not meet that threshold."
Science would measure the blood quantum via genetics, but he's making it clear that there's a cultural determinant that applies equally. Where does that leave urban Maori who have evolved several generations since the colonial era, many of whom apparently become disconnected from their tribal roots? Required to re-enculture themselves to qualify?
Science would measure the blood quantum via genetics,
No, Social Science would look at culture. Biology has nothing to do with it other than the person having a Maori ancestor.
You really believe blood is a cultural construct?? Most people believe it is a physical thing. Science usually proves stuff by examining physical evidence. Seems like Henare is acknowledging that via his reference: "blood quantum". He then includes culture as part of identity.
His application of both/and logic seems appropriate to me, yet your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong. Why do you disagree with Henare?
No, blood is a red liquid that transports oxygen and nutrients through the body.
Social Science studies the shared ideas of social groups and how people identify as part of a group.
Maori get to define what "Maori" is not some racist Pakeha prick like you using racist Pakeha ideas about 'race'. To be Maori a person must have at least one Maori ancestor, as i said, and identify as being Maori. That is the way it has always been.
Henare does not specify any particular amount of 'blood quantum' and i assume this is just a clumsy way of saying some genetic heritage. Henare would be out on a limb with his other comments about level of involvement, i would think. Jackson said as much.
Again i am not sure if you are being stupid or just the shit stirring prick that you obviously are.
"Maori get to define what "Maori" is".
Fascinating. Does that mean that Bennett is entitled to decide that neither Jackson nor Henare is a Maori? Would that mean that Peeni Henare would be disqualified from being an MP from a Maori electorate seat and that there will be a by-election?
Or can only a Labour MP make such decisions and what you really mean is that some animals are more equal than others, as Orwell would put it?
It is defined in Tikangi. I use "Maori" in a collective sense. You might not know it but we don't say 'Maoris'.
Even I know that.You surely don't imagine that you are a unique source of knowledge about such things do you? So what? It doesn't change the question. Who get to make the call? You surely aren't going to tell me that it must be unanimous are you?
"The call" was made a very long time ago when Maori first started breeding with Europeans.
Well that is certainly a masterpiece of Delphic ambiguity. Given the names Jackson, Peters, and Bennett it is pretty clear that they had ancestors who indulged in the activity. The jury is still out on whether Henare qualifies.
Doesn't answer the question of course.
Completely agree Rosemary
+ 1 yep – willie is a wanker – he needs to decolonise his mind.
It is Peeni Henare who Rosemary is quoting.
Sorry. Both Peeni and Willie need to decolonise their minds – this 'not Māori' enough stuff is colonisation 101.
Exactly.
Sigh.
I know 'all's fair'etc. but even pakeha me sees this kind of shit as being just what The Man ordered.
I am disappointed they both fell into it.
Willie doesn't believe in being PC. Sometimes I don't like his approach, but this morning on Radionz he made his point for not being a slang-free society. A bit of to-and-fro is more honest than rigid people complying with the conventions as well as the laws, and being completely shuttered and negative in their minds as to the humanity of the situation.
any anti PC person is a wanker too imo – willie loves the sound of his own voice is about his depth
Being PC in everything is just so PC marty mars. Good to keep on going round in circles, keeps you in touch with yourself, otherwise one can get lost in the harakeke.
Oh Marty you are also anti PC all the time !!!!!!
never; – rubbish;
So when will we see you as a PC?
Never in my life.
You lost me but it's all okay – I am a full on card carrying believer in political correctness as it is known by its enemies and kindness as it is known by its friends.
Marty Keep it up and you may join the human race eventually.
I can say with surety that the word 'race', in all its lurid connotations, is one of my least favorite words – I might even be so bold as to put it at the top of my disliked words or perhaps the bottom depending upon my fickle mood.
You'll be fine as long as you remember who ever wins the rat race they're still a rat.
Obviously being Maori, as with any ethnicity, involves more than just having a genetic component. My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group.
It is always hard to know if you are as ignorant as you pretend to be.
Being in the kitchen helping with the tremendous hospitality that Maori turn out for their cultural purposes is one of the Maori women's cultural activities, and the men set everything up, dig the hangi and set it up etc.
It's just division of duties for the successful outcome to a function and not to be judged by pakeha women as not coinciding with their efforts to gain mana and standing for women who have had to fight their way up from a lower status than Maori women had.
I think you meant to reply to Rosemary.
I was just tacking myself on to the end with a general comment. It sometimes interferes with the flow of the comments and replies to come in late and add something a bit different solkta.
And agree Sacha. I was stating what I have learned from having been on marae helping and been told and observed what I referred to in my earlier comment.
Not just women who dry dishes on marae these days. It is being used as a metaphor for humbly serving community.
+ 1 yep
Exactly.
Well said greywarshark.
I have been on many marae events and my grandson is of Ngati-porau, of nga whanau me nga hapu o Ngati Porou, so I enjoy Maori serving of food with aroha and hospitality it is very warm.
I speak very little Maori sadly, but my heart is there but the life is to short.
“It is always hard to know ..”
Ignorance is as ignorance does.
solkta "My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group."
Can I suggest that you have it quite back-to-front.
It isn't that scots have moved away from scottishness, it is that scottishness has moved forward to new places and cultural activities, thus re-defining that ethnicity.
This idea that ethnicity has strict rules around what you have to do to belong grates like fingernails down a chalkboard. It makes no sense and I reject it. Humanity and its ethnicities have long been in a state of flux and change – immigrating, colonising, going to McDonalds, it never stops moving.
Similarly with maori – it shouldn't be that you have to conduct yourself in certain ways to be that ethnicity, it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity. This is, after all, how that ethnicity and its current cultural activities came into being in the first place…
You have it all backwards imo
it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity.
No it should be whatever Maori do as a group. Otherwise you are just talking about 'race'.
I do get your point that culture is not static, but it has to be morphing from one set of parameters to another. Maori culture is obviously different from what it was pre European contact, but it is still distinct from that of other groups.
"No it should be whatever Maori do as a group"
But it is being done as part of that group – that was my point and why I said “whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori”. Whatever one does with one's life is as part of that group. I don't see how one person's life can be separated out from the group like you suggest.
A little more to add:
The principle I outline above is the exact same principle used by maori for various claims made under te tiriti for matters which maori previously had no knowledge of, let alone activity in. For example, radio waves.
Willie Jackson is being empty-headed with his claims and he should turn his mind to this principle, which he has supported countless times himself in the past. What a nincompoop
He's a great little talker Willie J is.
My understanding of the the claims for the Treaty are that the tikanga is not set in stone; the Treaty is a living thing, changing with times, developments, experiences and perceptions. So the Treaty that was perceived at the time that it was signed, is still the Treaty at a different time but with some different perceptions about it. The main one being that there was an agreement made to preserve and maintain elements of life.
As for being a Maori, my understanding is that it is variable. There may be blood relationships, or it may be acceptance relationships through marriage or even if someone has been accepted as one of the group and become a sister or brother by agreement. This then requires that person to fulfill family duties and responsibilities to that group, hapu or marae, if they want to be fully included. It seems to me that it is a matter of heart, and acceptance, and mutual commitment.
But all Maori aren't equal; different groups have their own ways and perceptions. One tribe may not accept someone from another. And one of my relatives is both Maori and pakeha, pale skinned, from a South Island tribe. Some of them are not fully accepting because of the pale skin. When in Northland around 1950, that tribe's similar attitudes were isolating which led to loneliness.
I am a bit confused I am part Irish/Scottish/Greek/English on my mothers' side of the family, however a family DNA test has come back as mainly Iberian ie Spanish/Portugese and on my fathers side I am mainly Scottish & Maori so what does that make me ?
Sounds like a whole heap of B/S IMHO ?
"so what does that make me ?"
Probably a well balanced decent person.
Going off to a tangent my wife has done my family tree. There is a bit of Scottish, Irish and German in me. I had to have a Cataract operation a few years ago and the surgeon said he was going to fit a Zeiss lens in my eye. I can now say honestly that there is a bit of German in me
Genetics is a bit of a lottery.
Your siblings may have common genetic ancestry, but what you end up with could be completely different from what your brothers and sisters have.
Each individual inherits their own unique mix.
solkta
As an example of how threads can be disrupted and hard to follow when the reply doesn't state the original commenter, you at 8.51 am saying about being ignorant comes below mine at 10.15 am so you were not referring to me.
It seems it was referring to either Dennis F or Rosemary M further up at 3.1…
The indent shows plus it says in the "Comments" list which is surely where most start from.
Jackson explains what he meant here:
https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018693391
The non apology – it's attitudes like jackson expresses, those distorted views, that directly contribute to the appalling statistics young Māori are over represented in – disgraceful.
"Interesting road opening up here"
There is nothing remotely interesting or useful about dinosaur racism. Keep it to yourself.
People who think racism ought not to feature in public discussion are rare nowadays. You part of a dying breed??
Anyone who uses the words 'blood' or 'quantum' is not adding anything useful. Back under that rock with you.
Look, if you want to criticise a Labour MP then do so directly, like Marty. Being so oblique just makes you seem dishonest. And since when have you ever tried to add anything useful to this site?? All you seem capable of is random misunderstandings of the discourse.
You have taken Henare's stupidity and run with it. Above you have said things like:
"your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong."
and
"Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census?"
which is inexcusably ignorant in this day and age. Life is too short to put up with fools polluting the public pool. Such nonsense would be warmly welcomed at Kiwibog.
So explain why you disagree with the Labour minister's reference to the biological part of Maori identity, and why you disagree with applying a metric to that. And why you lack a sense of humour. 🙄
Dennis F
You are so sure of yourself. You might remember the quote about who are fools and who are wise. When you start talking about Maori proving that biologically you are going back over arguments made decades ago, even a century.
If you know so little about Maori matters better you stay out of giving your opinions – you haven't got up to first base and need to go away, read up and learn. Everybody needs to do some homework for themselves so they can discuss from the point of view of some appropriate authority.
So does that mean you didn't notice that the Labour minister referred to "blood quantum"?? Or do you think blood is not biological??
Did you also not notice that I mostly asked questions? Which of my opinions are you actually referring to? Did you notice that respondents failed to address what he actually said? Do you think such evasion of political comments is what this website ought to feature, and if so, why?
If you get my drift, it ain't about me at all, no matter how hard some respondents are trying to spin it. It's about the news!
It is a good thing for a pakeha to sit back and let Maori sort matters out between themselves. Feelings and tikanga, expectations and resentments may have to be worked through and require a truce between them to their mutual resignation.
That is for them to work out. You can't cut perceptions into thin slices and put them under a microscope. Until you are required to make a decision because you are in a position requiring decisions or legality, then it would be discerning of you to remain politely in the background.
If as a pakeha, you have seen the strong feelings that can arise after the death of a parent between the various siblings, you might have an idea of the emotional aspect to be worked out in relationships.
Who is the she who was trying to boss you?
Sacha @ 3.4 & 3.4.1.1 and she seems to be coming from a pc position, which I'm allergic to. I get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, to me it looks and smells like censorship.
So my stance is that I have as much right to comment on cultural & political matters in Aotearoa as anyone else. To the extent that Maori stuff affect us, I comment on that. If it doesn't affect the pakeha world, I don't. This item does.
The reason is that a new bit of political culture was invented by the three Maori MPs involved. You will see that I introduced the topic with a question that goes straight to the heart of it. The significant point is that nobody has answered the question!! I've seen that pattern since I was a child in the 1950s. Adults would freak out when I asked a simple question or made a simple comment. They would literally freeze, with a look of fear in their eyes. Somehow, I was born with an uncanny knack of uttering the unspeakable.
Nowadays they call it speaking truth to power. When the power lies in social convention, speaking truth shatters it, enabling progress. Those in denial of Maori racism voiced against Maori will studiously continue to evade what has actually happened. It's part of the traditional leftist preference for delusion over reality.
Dennis,
Bossy bossy you.
Huh?? Felt like she was trying to boss me, actually. Can't you recognise push-back when you see it?
Dennis you are very prominent on blogs and that shows you are very opinionated, and 'that is trying to boss' by sheer inference.
Oh, I see. Could say the same for you, eh? Takes one to know one!
Every so often I get just a wee whiff of eau de fascist off ol' franko.
And yet I've often mentioned here that my political praxis has been anti-fascist since 1970. Funny, eh? 😎
Yes it is funny that you are such a fucktard that you don't understand your own ideas.
Leftists thinking centrists are rightists is way funnier. No wonder they struggle to figure out which way is up. Reality is so hard for such dimwits to grasp, as you keep on demonstrating…
You don't seem to even know what you think you are let alone what you actually are. Yesterday you were claiming to be Green, but while the Green Party dose not generally identify as being Left it very certainly does not identify as being Centrist.
You can imagine how the other Greens felt with a shithead like that in the nest. Fly away, grey cuckoo.
I've told the history of that here several times over the past few years. The Values Party schism in the mid-seventies was caused by the leftists and centrists being unable to do consensus.
I was too radical that decade to join either group. I persuaded the Greens to go left in '91 when Jeanette Fitzsimons led a session on the question at our conference. My reasoning was that the Bolger govt had already captured several leading environmentalists, so we had to form a viable alternative. Nobody wanted Labour (due to Rogernomics).
There's always been many in the Green Party who prefer non-alignment, but the conference decision was pre-MMP and we had a binary choice only. Russel Norman's straw poll at the 2015 conference (65 in the session) showed the leftists were half the number who put their hands up for the traditional Green position (neither left nor right). I saw that happen.
The problem with people like you & Sacha is the perennial one of always operating from the position of ignorance, while pretending to know stuff. Sad the way the leftist belief system makes many adherents delusional.
and yet it is
@sacha
He likes to pretend that he has some significant history with the Greens but from what he has said on here it seems that had some involvement in the very early years but then left as he was not a good fit at all. The crap that he has talked today about 'race' would have gone down like a lead balloon both then and now, as would most of his ramblings.
@pat
Is your reply to me?
Yet they are Left or Centrist??
yet they are centrist…as are their voter base…a more middle class party would be hard to find…their one saving grace is in danger of disappearing altogether.
@Pat
The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's. Winston is Centrist and he is currently fucking up most Green policy objectives.
Centrist does not mean "middle class" and Left does not mean exclusively working class. Karl Marx was very middle class for fucks sake.
The Greens come to the same place as the Left on social policy, they just get their by a different route.
"The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's."
Are they?..and even if they are Labour are hardly 'left' as they subscribe to neoliberalism…as stated the Greens are , and are supported by the middle class as their voter demographic displays…but you keep telling yourself otherwise, it may come true one day
To explain it another way, when Greens say they are not Left or Right they mean that they don't really fit on that spectrum. Centrism fits on that spectrum, right in the middle of it.
@Pat
The Greens have had a policy for Capital Gains Tax longer than Labour and still do. The Greens are responsible through their agreement for the welfare changes announced today. I can't be fucked giving you more examples but there are many. You can go to the relevant websites and compare.
Yes Labour are not as left as they once were, the Greens are further left, if measured on that spectrum, like i said. Left and Right are only relevant to the context so in NZ Parliamentary Politics today Labour are still left of centre.
And also like i said Centrist does not mean middle class. Have you not heard of Karl Marx? There are huge numbers of lefty middle class people. There is also a significant number of working class people who vote National.
Karl Marx?…wasnt he the brother that couldnt act?
"He likes to pretend"
Yep, a whole lot of figjam pretension.
I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change…if they fuck this opportunity up they will never see my vote again….the question you have to ask yourself is how typical am i?
@Pat
It will be Winston who fucks the Climate Act if anybody. The Greens could bring the gummint down over it, but that would lead to a hugely messy election and probably a Nact led gummint.
No you are not typical of a Green voter. There is about 6% of the vote that is core Green. After that they mostly take votes from Labour. When labour could not find an effective leader people walked to the Greens, and then back again when they finally did.
lf i have voted Green the previous 3 elections im part of that core vote…you cannot know how typical my attitude is…and nor can the party…time will tell.
@Pat
When i say 6% are "core Green voters" i mean voters who support the Green Kaupapa. By saying I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change you are making it very clear that you are not a core Green voter.
I have voted for them in every election where they have been an option as i have always supported most of their policies.
oh dear you are truly delusional…the Greens received approx 6.3% of the vote last election , or 162000 party votes….whats membership?..id suggest significantly less. probably around 10% of that figure….thats your Green Kuapapa, not the votes.
@Pat
Had you considered that you might be part of the 0.3%.
The Greens peaked at i think 12.6% in the polls and that was directly after Metiria's speech. They picked up some lefty vote on the back of that. Then Metiria lost control of the narrative and Ardern became Labour leader and went hard on Climate Change, Fresh Water and Child Poverty. 4-5% (percentage points) went back to Labour and 1-2% of swing voters got the frights. The Greens dropped back to mostly their core vote.
If you think you can sort Climate Change without caring about people then best you buy a gun. You will need it. France has started down that road.
Don't gnosis all that funny franko.
Don't know about 'facist', but this lefty’s noticed franco’s rather fond of labels.
Dennis
Ask Willie Jackson; he's is the self appointed expert in determining who is or is not Maori.
Furthermore you could ask him what methodology he uses to make such a determination.
Is Hone Harawira Maori?
|Is Willie Jackson Maori?
Of course they are, 100 percent of the time.
In my opinion Paula Bennet is Maori when it suits her, and not when it doesn't.
That is, she plays on her heritage when there is a political advantage to be made from it. But mostly ignores it.
Paula Bennet raises the objection that being Maori is not defined by being able to speak Maori.
And she is right.
And I know that for many with all the will in the world, it can prove to hard to pick up the reo, especially if you have been raised exclusively in the Pakeha tradition.
Bennet has a point there.
But for anyone who ever wanted to get in touch with their Maori Heritage, surely Paula Bennet has had more than enough opportunity to learn Te Reo, that is, if she wanted to.
I mean, despite being in a relatively well paid job, (opposition MP), with relatively little to do and able to set her own agenda. And presumably, with the pick of professional support, able and willing to walk her through it. (If she chose to avail herself of it) has she ever tried to learn the language?
Has she ever taken the time, has she even ever made the effort?
I think if she did, it would be the making of her.
"Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has been called upon to lead the war against killer robots." What, harangue them to death??
"Mary Wareham, advocacy director of the Arms Division of Human Rights Watch, is leading the global campaign to ban fully autonomous weapons… Wareham said New Zealand is the only country in the world to have a Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control, referring to Peters. Asked if the world needs Peters to lead the war on killer robots, Wareham responded: "Certainly. I think he would be an excellent leader.""
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/winston-peters-called-upon-to-lead-war-against-killer-robots.html
Well, okay, Aotearoa leading the way is excellent, but Winston probably ought to delegate the task to Arnie – who knows the scene inside-out. He said he'd be back, eh? Now's the time!
Wtf? Haven't they seen those Terminator movies? A war against killer robots is a terrible idea! Humans are squishy and easily disabled, no match for robots at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to just not build the killer robots in the first place?
"The Justice Select Committee is currently considering a bill to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which would review convictions and sentences and decide whether to refer them to the appeal court. Currently, if someone believes they have suffered a miscarriage of justice they can apply to the Governor-General, who seeks advice from the Minister of Justice, for exercise of the Royal prerogative of mercy that can be used to grant a free pardon or to refer a conviction or sentence back to an appeal court."
So a less-paternalistic option. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112421737/mps-urged-to-not-appoint-judges-to-commission-for-miscarriages-of-justice
"Nigel Hampton QC, forensic science consultant Dr Anna Sandiford and investigator Glynn Rigby, submitted for the New Zealand Public Interest Project. They endorsed the idea of a Commission, but urged caution with appointing judges and suggested adding a provision to allow an appeal after death. In their experience miscarriages of justice usually revolved around poor or inadequate investigation, forensic science, legal defence and sometimes overzealous prosecutors."
I'm pleased to see this group lobbying for a body more representative of the public. The legal establishment has often victimised people in the past. I first suggested a public accountability mechanism in 1991 when I wrote the second draft of the Greens justice policy, as convenor of their justice policy working group. Andrew Little's proposal is a weaker alternative, but it will improve the current system. Keeping the judges out of the review group would serve the public interest, but allowing one or two to participate as advisors could also work well.
A USA Judge who did much to limit miscarriages of justice and undertook legislation that advanced the rights of the poor, black community, has just died. I hadn't heard of this great man so I am passing on his obituary so those who care for what he did can honour Judge Damon Keith's achievements and we can seek to emulate them.
https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/04/28/detroit-judge-damon-keith-who-coined-democracy-dies-in-the-dark-dead-at-96
OMG plant based beef has arrived!
Gluten, soy and GMO, and most importantly meat free burgers are on sale from 7 May at BF 🙂 I can't wait to try it out. Don't think I'll be able to totally eliminate meat (on a keto diet) but every bit counts.
Now if only we could get rid of packaging.
There's no need for meat-free burgers in NZ. Much of our livestock is grass-fed on land that wouldn't be suitable for growing crops anyway. Or should be…
Business news on Radionz this morning. Investors very interested in new food non-meat business.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48110704
Is plant burger firm Beyond Meat really worth $1.5bn? The US firm, which counts actor and environmentalist Leonardo DiCaprio among its investors, will now offer its shares at between $23 and $25.
The decision to increase the price from the original range of $19 and $21 indicates strong demand for the shares.
But Beyond Meat is loss-making and does not know when it will report a profit.For its most recent financial results for 2018, Beyond Meat said losses hit $29.9m, slightly below the previous year but above a $25.1m loss in 2016…
Beyond Meat is one of a number of so-called "unicorn" companies – which are privately-backed firms worth $1bn or more – to sell their shares to public investors this year.
yes A
And get the BF foods sent by train not by ‘dirty carbon emissions trucks’ please.
While we discuss politics and racism there is 'humanism' to argue for – us against technology and its weaponisation and the increasing trend of technology to destroy our lives, gradually or suddenly.
Dennis F at 4 also refers to this.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/388334/mps-urged-to-take-strong-stance-on-killer-robots
And also the denial of rights and robbing of land and livelihood from people inconveniently positioned on land with uses for other people. 19th century the Highland Clearances in Scotland – large scale sheep farming over-turning the people’s smallholding-croft system.
Today one example is Western Papua bandied around to major powers, with Indonesia hosting and a USA? firm mining copper on West Papuan land with reprisals against protest that have resulted in deaths. A seeker of info trying to find truth jailed.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/388357/indonesia-jails-polish-tourist-who-met-with-papuan-rebels
The empire does this to their own, what do you think your worth…
I cant reply
@ pshyco milt
Better enjoy it while it lasts . They are rapidly planting the hills killing off our way of life and you grass fed beef
I just watche a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
True ? Or bs ?
Keep it simple please
I read that termites produce more methane than the worlds cow herd combined.
I will do my bit for climate change by eating beef, but those bugs, you're all on your own.
A quick google suggests termites worldwide produce around 20 million tonnes of methane per year, around half of which is oxidised before it even leaves the mound.
Whereas cows belch around 150 million tons per year of methane, all of which goes straight into the atmosphere.
So cows are responsible for around 15x more methane than termites.
I'll have to search for the article I read when I'm home from work, as obviously, I wouldn't have mentioned it if I hadn't read it.
I can't find the piece I read the other day, which would have been mainstream and not dubious, but I had a google, too.
I found a few things that were roughly stating the same thing, though some looked dodgy, the like 12 posts to back their questionable science, so I won't advocate for them here.
I'm happy to be corrected by proper scientists and science, so if their consensus is termites aren't heavier methane producers than cows, so be it.
A few sites put the emissions of termites way above the 20 million tonnes figure, but note the mounds and underground networks act as filters.
Either way, I'll still eat meat, but not bug meat.
Yes, eating insects or larvae is all well and good, but it's not for me.
edit: unless they’re processed AF and look/taste/feel like fillet steak.
Yeah, nah, I'd rather eat that fake crap in the supermarket which costs twice as much as cow mince but with only half the flavour… Or look at rabbit, dog and cat as a cheaper, tasty alternative.
One thing that revolted me about soylent green was that they took actual meat and made it taste like tofu and lentils.
Oh, and the cannibalism, of course…
I guess even the veggos need help to eat all their greens.
The pigs are still gonna be in trouble though. I'm only gonna give up bacon when they pry it out of my cold dead jaws.
Cats- nah. Turning sunshine into protein in plants is horribly inefficient. Taking another step and running that plant material through an animal to make meat protein just compounds the inefficiency. Taking yet another step and running animal protein through an obligate carnivore to produce slightly different animal protein compounds the inefficiency yet again.
But there are so many of them in the hood, free range meat and all that.
The birds would thank you.
Agree about bacon, but I don’t eat it myself any more – Been called a pig so many times it’s like cannibalism.
Yeah, I can't quite get up any enthusiasm for eating invertebrates either.
While I eat very little meat, I really can't be arsed with the effort and planning needed to get the full complement of nutrients needed from a fully vege diet. But I'll be quite happy to eat vat-grown animal cells processed into burgers and sausages and mince.
I can't quite get up any enthusiasm for eating invertebrates either.
I had a really yummy prawn curry last night. Does that count?
Ewww. Prawns inhabit the same ecological niche in the sea that cockroaches do on land. Or is that lobsters? I forget. Not doing filter-feeders either.
Hmm. the prawn thing is bringing me around to the idea. "Cockroaches: prawns of the basement". "Land prawns", maybe?
They did it with canola oil.
All the slum lords would be kicking their tenants out to maximise the six legged growth in their investments.
Or listing them on the flats chattels list…
Actually, fair point. If cockroaches had a prawn texture, I might try them as long as they were peeled, de-legged and decapitated.
But locusts deep fried onna stick would be a bit of a stretch
In this curry they just had the tails still on. It is a little off-putting when they still have a face.
Thinking about it (close to dinner time, after all), I've squished many a land bug, and none of them looked like raw prawns on the inside. Unless the goey innards turn solid when cooked, like an egg does?
@Andre – See above lol
Allien how can eating meat be good for climate change?
That just encourages raising more Cattle doesn't it?
Im happy to take a steak or burger for the team to get rid of all those cows, but veggies and veganauts, you animal lovers, if you plan to get rid of all the cows, are you happy to pull the trigger? And if you're not hypocritical about it, ignoring the obvious cognitive dissonance, why can't I eat what you slaughter?
I think Al0on was being faecetious cleany.
Currently the methane concentration in the atmosphere is around 1900 ppb. Prior to the early 1800s it was very steady at around 700 ppb. The extra methane is responsible for somewhere around 1/4 to 1/3 the global temperature rise since the 1800s, and it's all due to human activities of various kinds, including vastly increasing the global numbers of ruminant livestock.
Yes, it's true that methane oxidises to CO2 and water in the atmosphere, with a half life of around 8 to 12 years. (Half life means every molecule emitted has a 50/50 chance of surviving one half life,and a 1:4 chance of surviving two half lives, 1:8 chance of surviving 3 etc). But while that molecule of CO2 exists in the atmosphere, it is over 100 times more effective at trapping heat then the CO2 molecule it will oxidise into.
The relatively rapid decay of methane means there's a fairly good "bucket with a hole in it" analogy for thinking about methane concentration. Imagine a bucket with a hole in it, and a tap filling it with water. The water flowing in represents the methane we're dumping into the atmosphere, the height of the water in the bucket represents methane concentration in the atmosphere, and the water flowing out represents methane getting oxidised to CO2 and water in the atmosphere. The flow of water out of the hole is a bit responsive to the water level, it flows a bit faster with a high water level, a bit slower with a low water level.
Things were fairly well in balance up to around the 1800s at a fairly low tap flow, and a fairly low level in the bucket, and a low outflow. But when we turned the tap up by finding and burning fossil fuels and increasing agriculture all across the world, the water level rose dramatically. A big part of that turning the tap up was hugely increasing numbers of ruminant livestock. Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
What is it with you that every topic needs to somehow get turned to trains? Was your childhood spent desperately wanting a train set to play with and you never got one for Christmas?
Some 'love' trains, others prefer critiquing those with a bee in their bonnet.
Takes all kinds…
No Cleangreen wanting trains is because of a large part of adulthood petitioning the government to grow some brains, and do the transport thing in a way that is sustainable and provides amenities that Vogel realised in early colonial times..
If you took any real interest in what people on this blog are really on about apart from just a way to keep you from ennui you would know this. I think you come from the USA and no doubt things are different there.
You don't get anything done in NZ unless you are prepared to keep on about it for a couple of decades. If you ever want anything done that is good for the country Andre, don't ever think that you will get it for Christmas because Santa will see how good and right you are. Down here in the Southern Hemisphere you have to make sure that you keep asking because your notes to Santa often get mislaid.
Wags asked about methane cycling in and out of the atmosphere and cows as a part of that cycle. Termites and methane is clearly a closely related topic. So WTF is the story with hijacking the thread to go completely off-topic to trains? It makes trying to follow the original topic and related topics very disjointed.
Especially when it's so easy to just start a new separate thread about trains. Nobody is going to object to that. But thread hijacking is a really good way to get people's backs up.
You said Andre: Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
That caught Cleangreens attention because he always reads your good comments, and then he thought of other ways to help the CC count of whatever go down plus the extra global heating reducing, and then he put in the bit about how using trains would be beneficial for that. So all quite easy to follow when you see the activist mind at work.
Trains to Gisborne and the usefulness they will have towards saving fuel and carbon credits and so on are top of the bill for Cleangreen and rightly so being more important than lots of things we discuss.
And because we have to say everything to NZ politicians and planners a thousand times before they ever hear of the idea, Cleangreen is just bringing the count up.
Because trucks are driving past his house and stirring up dust. If I remember correctly a quarry opened up down the road from where he lives.
Being an older retired gentleman this is no doubt driving him nuts which are leading to the never-ending pro trains anti-truck ranting.
What is it about trains vs trucks?
In no particular order: energy efficiency for moving goods up and down this skinny country
less diesel pollution from the electrified part of the rail network,
no rubber compound pollution from trains,
the trucking industry subsidised by the rest of us to pay for the damage the trucks do to roads,
trucking industry being poorly paid, hardly unionized and often exploitative of its workers,
the damage done to other motorists when colliding with a truck.
I am sure there are a few more.
Nothing to do with wanting a train set.
Those are all good arguments to use in a thread about transport modes. But what is their relevance in a thread about methane cycles and cows?
"Another visit from the thread purity police, lol." – yes, it's a thing.
Events seem to conspire to derail my life – why should a blog thread (on Open Mike) be any different?
Someone else will have commented (over the years), but why is it "Open Mike" (< 2 million Google matches) rather than "Open Mic" (> 17 million Google matches)? English/US difference?
[Agree that ‘thread derailing’ is poor etiquette, so apologies for derailing the derail, just for a bit of fun.]
The thread's all over the place now, nobody's gonna give a shit anymore.
Had just finished work and had a cantankerous manager have a crack.
I picked up a touch of snark in yr comment and that was what I was responding to.
To draw a long bow, those cows are generally about 'coz A, the are dairy and their milk leaves by truck or B, they are beef cattle and their protein leaves by truck.
You can't have your methaney livestock in isolation.
Gee, can't we just go back to the good'ol days and just walk those cows to the nearest train?
sounds like a win win to me.
Good info but you didnt answer the question .
Remember, the (primary) problem is heat absorption. Because methane is 20 times more greenhousey than CO2 that part of the cycle increases global warming.
But also, some fertiliser comes from fossil sources, so reintroduces more carbon compounds into the atmosphere in addition to the cycle.
And lastly, there's the "what was the land used for previously" question: burning the rain forest to make a cattle farm releases most of the carbon that was sunk into tree mass.
So the idea of "continuous cycle" is true to a point, but contributions to GW are often not as simple as that concept would suggest.
It's a factoid that's been taken out of its relevant context and used to hokey up some special pleading for some that don't want to take responsibility and make changes.
As a standalone assertion, that methane rapidly oxidises to CO2, and that plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere to be eaten by cows that then belch methane back into the atmosphere in a continuous cycle, is correct. And it is also correct that if numbers of cows do not change (and other methane emissions do not change) then methane levels in the atmosphere won't change.
But the context needed to understand the significance of that cycle is very important. First, methane levels now are nearly triple what they were throughout all previous human history, and the methane levels we have now are incompatible with maintaining a livable climate.
The massive increase in ruminant livestock numbers we now have over what was present through all previous human history is a significant contributor to the extremely high methane levels we now have. Reducing ruminant livestock numbers is one of the easiest steps we could take to reduce methane levels.
A quick Google revealed a recent (2019) paper (in a well-respected scientific journal) that suggests scientists still don't know enough to accurately predict trends in atmospheric methane concentrations.
Thank you .
Its important that facts are known and reported as such .
I run into ranting cockies alot and i want to be on solid ground if im going counter their shit .
Numbers i believe have peaked and will head down from here .
I'm guessing you saw the same video I saw, have a read of this comment
Fuck this new editor sucks donkey dick, it seems to want to truncate the URL, hopeless.
I'll repost the comment
I put up a video about cows, methane and surprise, got accused of being a denialist
I realize this is a touchy subject, but people probably misunderstood where I was coming from, I’m not a scientist or have vast in-depth knowledge of climate change.
I posted a video which I thought was interesting as it was saying something completely different from what I’ve seen in the media and thought I’d put it up here and get feedback.
Asking questions doesn’t make one a denialist.
Now about methane
Methane concentrations have increased from around 775 parts per billion in pre-industrial times to around 1800 now, due entirely to human activities
In the video methane and ruminants(cows) was shown to be a natural cycle where methane was endlessly recycled and nothing changed and everything was kept in balance, obviously if more cattle are added then the amount of methane would increase.
So I went and had a look to see if cow/beef numbers have increased massively in the past 50 years and surprisingly they’ve been rather static.
That also got me thinking pre-industrial there must have been a shit tonne of natural ruminants like Bison, Deer etc. and before them big animals like mammoths which would have been belching out methane by the tonne as well as many wetlands which have been destroyed due to farming
I then came across this article which I found interesting.
https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/la-chefs-editorial-methane-and-global-warming/
The question the author was trying to answer was why methane levels didn’t start to rise until the industrial age.
According to the author
One reason methane levels remained flat was that cattle and other ruminants (wild and domesticated) lived in intact grassland ecosystems and helped build healthy soils that contain soil microbes called methanotrophs that reduce atmospheric methane (2). Thus maintained grassland ecosystems function as methane sinks, and bank as much as 15% of the earth’s methane (3) Tillage for crops reduces the soil’s capacity to bank methane (as does exposed uncovered soil) plus also releases carbon into the atmosphere (4). Use of synthetic fertilizers also adversely impacts soil methanotrophs (5). Glyphosate in no tilled systems according to industry funded research doesn’t impact soil microbial activity. Though research by other researchers contradicts this industry perspective and details how herbicides like glyphosate adversely change the makeup of soil microbes (6).
If that is the case because all our dairy and beef is grass fed we do not actually have that much of an impact on global methane levels? should we even be paying carbon taxes?
Or if we do shouldn’t it be more vegetable growers and not so much farmers?
The author points the finger more at natural gas and writes.
Meanwhile the methane from fracking and natural gas extraction, transportation and refining, in general, apparently has been underestimated significantly maybe by 5 times or 500% per some recent studies on this topic (9). Not to mention China is massively increasing their use of natural gas and fracking. Coincidentally, the largest increases in methane levels occurred in the 1960’s when natural gas use increased significantly- nearly ten-fold.
Oh god we have seen that shit on here before. I'm sure it was you who posted it too. It is Friday night, give us a break for fucks sake.
Robin Grieve, Act candidate for Whangarei. Act, the only party that has ever argued that buffer zones between GE and organic farms were viable. My suggestion was napalm every 30 seconds.
Yeah Bison and Deer all over Aotearoa. We have had that discussion before also. Mindless stuff.
FYI bwaghorn’s question waas:
<i>I just watched a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
True ? Or bs ? Keep it simple please </i>
the problem is that there are multiple sources of methane other than ruminants…a major contributor is the gas industry…which is unrelated to the flow argument and growing
It's never simple bwaghorn – about natural processes.
What do you mean they are rapidly planting the hills killing off our way of life. Do you mean that hillside pastures are being taken up by tree plantations? Pinus radiata?
I understand that the idea of planting widely allowing grazing between once the trees have got established is probably the way to go. But don't know for sure, and if so what species? Is it possible for us to not have pinus but another one kinder to the soil.
Perhaps they should be planting big bamboos – not keeping on the old mousewheel of pinus radiata because – fast and it's what we know. Couldn't there be some R&D money to help with trials for diversification that would be studied and published benefitting all with the information.
This was put to bed with a lot of trials by the old Forest Service in the 70's.
Result – crap trees due to the wide spacing leading to too much branch / canopy and crap pasture due to the shading and water draw by the trees. I think most of the trials were abandoned after less than 15 years, at least the one I had a little to do with at Tikitere was.
That is interesting. So can't put trees in for plantation purposes wide spread. What if the trees were like tagstase? and the animals could both graze grass and the tree, and get shade, and the farmer have some advantage from carbon credits from the tree left in situ? Shade is going to be something that cannot be ignored with the advent of CC becoming hot as hell out there, which would be a variable not high at the time of the trials you referred to.
What do you say about the scenario I put together for possible adoption in the coming years. I guess the old Forest Service in the 70's was still steeped in p.radiata, so different tree – different result perhaps. And edible. And maybe more opportunity for understorey growth with other tree types as I think pinus kills and dries off undergrowth.
Tagasaste would last 5 seconds around cows.
Heard of an area that has lost 100 000 stock units to trees lately . At roughly 1 job per 5000 stock units thats a massive whole in the community. Less kids in schools less partners doing other work . Etc .
That's a giant change of finances. Not much coming in for 20-30 years so who would be parking so much finance in the trees for that long, and they might burn down. Would they get insurance in the first place?
Even when foreign money or aggregation of farms happens, there are managers and workers required. Going into trees like that will certainly take people out of the area.
British local body election results are coming through: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-48131095
Professor Sir John Curtice, "polling expert": "There have been some remarkably good figures for the Greens so far, who on average are running at 12% of the vote in the wards that they are fighting, up 5 points on their performance in last year's local elections."
Update from Curtice: "Note that in contrast to the position for Labour, compared with 2015 the Conservative vote is down much more heavily in the south of England (by 8 points) as compared with the north of England (by 2 points). If this pattern continues then Tory losses in the south of England tomorrow could still prove to be quite substantial."
Labour are tanking at the moment, with 2 councils lost and -50 councillors.
They may yet, even though polling at around 30%, win a general election, though it'll be more down to Farrage and his brexit it party bleeding support from the Tories at about 18% nationally.
The lib dems are the nights winners, so far, which may also impede on labour in those 3 way seats they need to win to take a majority at parliament.
“Labour are tanking at the moment…”
Thanks for that BBC link, Dennis.
As of 6 pm (NZ time): So far the Tories have lost 16 councils and Labour three.
Welfare working group report just released. Perfectly reasonable recommendations but given this report only exists as part of the confidence & supply agreement with the Greens and would never have happened otherwise, it's safe to say the vast majority of it will be watered down, delayed or totally ignored, especially the raising of the core benefit rates.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/388392/recommendations-on-welfare-system-reform-released
Kat
Keep questioning I think and they won't be able to get away with a watered down version. It sounds so promising that i feel tremendously hopeful. If there is a spark of old Labour to be dug around and watered, it might send up shoots and flower. A thing of beauty and a joy forever.
Beneficiaries who work will be able to earn more before their pay is docked, and the sanction against solo mothers who don't name the father of their children will be scrapped, as the government begins its overhaul of the welfare system.
If bennies can earn much more, then they can get themselves onto the work train when possible. If they can get child sitting during school holidays then they can work that into an earning scheme that will provide those needed shoes, the sports gear, the inclusion of their kids in events at school.
And not naming the father gives them the option of not including a ne'er-do-well into the family life the mother is trying to build. He may know himself but won't have the department after him for money and it is better if the aim is to help the mother to become self-sustaining which is a good role model for the youngsters. Not having a druggie, alcoholic or play-acting father around, will make for stability and will be likely to cut into the stats for domestic violence. There is choice involved as to whether to have occasional visits or not if the father is a degenerate or just unreliable. It is a blow to a child if a visit is set up and the child is ready and waiting, and the father doesn't turn up, or is drunk and disorderly, or is subtly demeaning of the mother’s efforts so the child is left idolising the idea of him as generous, and the mother as being unworthy, and not to be fully loved which would cut into the mutual support that builds good family ties and relationships.
National bereft of effective positive ideas as usual with their usual expressions of negativity. Louise Upston with this one:
"National disagrees with the bulk of the report, which would see fewer obligations imposed on beneficiaries and fewer incentives to get back into work.
They still haven't caught up with womens lib yet. To them it was university women's lib, so they could grab the well-paying jobs when available that came with perks like maternity leave. Ordinary women were neither to share this bounty, or receive the respect due to mothers and partners trying to bring up healthy children, with values of honesty and kindness, with hope for a skilled job at a decent wage. 'Dragging up your kids' is the disparaging view of better-off National looking at lower income people's efforts, and they fund to match and perpetuate that malign view.
@Grey- my view of welfare does tend to be through the illness/disability lens, ie the one that rarely gets mentioned. Incentives to work mean absolutely nothing to a lot of us, but being able to pay for medical treatment without starving, does. That's not to say I'm not interested in what else is happening in general, but we don't tend to rate much of a mention. Besides, it's hard for the bashers to have a direct attack at us so no air time in the media either. I wish I could join you in feeling hopeful. But history dictates that, even if a few positive changes occur over the next few years, as soon as the government changes again- and being NZ it inevitably will- the first thing the Nats will do is attack welfare.
Something slightly amusing though- I noticed Stuff had opened their comments section for this story, so I posted a comment reminding them about their new policy of not opening stories about beneficiaries for comments, and was the temptation to let back in the bashers too much for them? Funnily enough the comments are now closed 🙂
Kay
After reading your and Rosemarys comments i realise that I don't know much about the disability allowance. The welfare net has been set far too high for anyone to be able to fall into it for years. The stupid way that supplements etc were set up should have been adjusted for inflation at the beginning and often were not.
Anyway here is a cute little UK ad from the past about finding work that the increased front line staff might copy.
Jobs for women.
We might get something in the Budget but Ms Sepuloni doesn't sound promising. 'Staged implementation' makes me think of a performance of Shakespeares 'All's Well that Ends Well' .
Maybe Robbo will find it in his heart to throw more money at suffering property developers.
Announcement made…https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112435767/government-to-scrap-benefit-sanction-for-solo-mums-employ-263-frontline-staff-to-help-beneficiaries-find-work
Some improvement…getting rid of the sanction for solo mums who don't name the father and increase the amount earned before abatement but….sweet fa for anyone else.
However, Sepuloni said the Government had decided against a recommended move to increase benefit levels by up to 47 per cent immediately so Kiwis could "live in dignity", and was instead "looking at a staged implementation" of change.
It would also allocate $76.3 million for 263 new frontline staff with the sole "focus of helping more people into meaningful and sustainable work".
So, it looks like more of the arbeit mach frei that the Nats were so fond of.
When I saw the headline you linked to Kay I thought of you. I've said this before, but when Peter graduated from the Supported Living Payment to the Super we were actually able to save a few dollars while living almost full time in our Bus and largely free camping.
That is how much difference there is between the SLP and Super.
Maybe they're saving something for those on SLP as a Budget day headline?
@Rosemary, I'd like to think so but it seems pretty clear they're not going to increase any of the core benefits. The one thing they could do (and it wouldn't upset most of the voters either) is getting rid of that pathetic cap on the disability allowance, $62/week or whatever it is now. It hasn't been lifted for years. That would help a lot without having to roll things over onto TAS etc, minimise paperwork.
My rent is now $30/week more than my core benefit so I'm existing entirely off the supplements which I'm maxed out on, and I doubt I'm alone…
The list of recommendations….
Key recommendations of the welfare expert advisory group:
Seems the government has largely ignored pretty much all of the suggestions.
Mostly interested in happy- clappy headline grabbers.
SSDD
A good Friday afternoon dump – to be expected from this lot, no matter what the party colour.
It will be like a Royal Wedding.
Congratulations to Jacinda Ardern and Clarke Gayford.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/112442442/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-and-clarke-gayford-engaged
Sweet merciful god.
You sound very religious Gabby. I guess we will all give thanks and prayers for their happy future together, both trying to multi-task, in a balanced modern relationship.
Hopefully next year about 6 months from the election.
And in the next term, another baby please.
We're good for 50% plus and governing with either Greens or NZF on that.
Nice white flowing gown with veil please. Maybe borrow Princess Di's dress.
Awesome…hope they do it MAF stylze!
For a third term, third child.
So much better than any substantial policy at all.
Winston might veto a third child.
Why? He’ll get to be acting PM again. Don’t they have to make the job permanent of three fixed-term contracts?
Do you mean so he can get his parliamentary super? I think Winston is so super that has been allocated long ago. And I think he deserves it as he has kept on making politics look vital and meaningful, at least some;times.
I was referring to employment law. For example:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/employment/news/article.cfm?c_id=11&objectid=10502361
It was tongue-in-cheek 😉
I hope someone's printing commemorative mugs and tea towels.
I hope you're joking.
It's going to happen.
Dollar for dollar Labour donations so he can afford a 2 carat e grade vvs1 rock.
It's all about the rock now people.
God almighty it just may be so.
I may have to go somewhere else for a while.
A tune for a Friday, methinks…
Ad the ring has been photographed and looks a simple tasteful affair. Why so sour?
Congrats to them, that's fantastic news.
Yes congrats to Clark and Jacinda. Great news.
I hope they do it their way. Sure they will.
LOL about the PR opportunities re the next election.
Wedding 3 weeks out from election???????
Seriously though, this plus the welfare reforms, very good news.
I hope they go very very far! And news in now Pike River agency think they have
identified what has stopped them re-entering the mine……
Except those pesky housing targets won't be met, the trees won't be planted and those child poverdy markers going the wrong direction isn't anything to be pleased about
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.
Of course they're doing something!
They're getting married, showing the leadership position to halt the decline in marriage and civil marriage:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/weddings/112441324/new-zealand-marriage-continues-downhill-trend
It was unseasonably warm today so i had one, it was pretty good 🙂
They will marry quietly and privately with no fuss. We will probably only find out after the event.
My reason for saying so is because Jacinda and Clarke like to keep their private lives private and that is the way it should be.
Thanks Cinny and Anne, for some decency. I am missing veteuviper and find much of the comment on here a little depressing and very sour, so I am on holiday for a while from the Standard, and I notice a few other absences. Cheers.
Their announcement is a timely distraction from the welfare report.
"Their announcement is a timely distraction" – too cynical?
A spokesman for the prime minister said the pair were engaged over Easter weekend.
Yet, it was conveniently announced today. A day Labour once again fell short on public hope and expectations.
CIA puppet's attempted putsch backed by Trump, Abrams, Pompeo and Bolton fails embarrassingly; U.S. state television (CNN) is flummoxed
Win some,
Lose most.
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.