Morning all. Juan Guaido here. That's G U A I D O, in case you're not familiar with the spelling. It's now or never. Operation "Enduring Hydrocarbons" enters a new phase today. Our removal of the illegitimate dictatorship starts at 11.30am outside Devonport Naval Base. Get along there Aucklanders! Bring a packed lunch and a rain jacket. Cash donations also welcome.
And how can we tell if someone is Maori enough anyway? Genetic analysis? Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census? Interesting road opening up here, but ought we to head down it?
"Jackson's Labour Māori caucus colleague Peeni Henare went further, actually questioning whether Bennett is Māori enough." Big call, claiming the second question is further than the first, but that's journalists for you. Just questions so far. No actual judgments.
"I haven't seen her contribution to the community for Māori kaupapa, I haven't seen her on the marae, I haven't seen her dry dishes, I haven't seen her do a karanga – therefore, it should be raising the question," he said.
Henare manages to tick at least two boxes with this. Bennett (who is a sad apology for a human being) is condemned as being not Maori enough by a Maori male because she doesn't behave the way he thinks a Maori woman should?
Sigh.
Criticise the woman for her many, many appalling words and actions as a politician, but damning her because she fails to fit his view of an acceptable Maori woman is a sacking offense.
Stupid men. Poor Ardern having to sort this one out.
Turns out there was context that the Newshub report didn't mention: "How does he [Jackson] determine whether the Māori in the Mana in Mahi programme are Māori enough to be counted?" she asked after Jackson said of the 143 clients have been placed in the programme 75 participants – some 52 per cent – identify as Māori."
Henare's position is also expanded here: ""blood quantum simply isn't enough" when it comes to being Māori. "I've always felt that you have to reach a threshold of need, participation and contribution in Māori Kaupapa. If you don't, of course, questions are going to be raised." He said he was "more than happy" for those questions to be raised of anybody who claims to be Māori who does not meet that threshold."
Science would measure the blood quantum via genetics, but he's making it clear that there's a cultural determinant that applies equally. Where does that leave urban Maori who have evolved several generations since the colonial era, many of whom apparently become disconnected from their tribal roots? Required to re-enculture themselves to qualify?
You really believe blood is a cultural construct?? Most people believe it is a physical thing. Science usually proves stuff by examining physical evidence. Seems like Henare is acknowledging that via his reference: "blood quantum". He then includes culture as part of identity.
His application of both/and logic seems appropriate to me, yet your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong. Why do you disagree with Henare?
No, blood is a red liquid that transports oxygen and nutrients through the body.
Social Science studies the shared ideas of social groups and how people identify as part of a group.
Maori get to define what "Maori" is not some racist Pakeha prick like you using racist Pakeha ideas about 'race'. To be Maori a person must have at least one Maori ancestor, as i said, and identify as being Maori. That is the way it has always been.
Henare does not specify any particular amount of 'blood quantum' and i assume this is just a clumsy way of saying some genetic heritage. Henare would be out on a limb with his other comments about level of involvement, i would think. Jackson said as much.
Again i am not sure if you are being stupid or just the shit stirring prick that you obviously are.
Fascinating. Does that mean that Bennett is entitled to decide that neither Jackson nor Henare is a Maori? Would that mean that Peeni Henare would be disqualified from being an MP from a Maori electorate seat and that there will be a by-election?
Or can only a Labour MP make such decisions and what you really mean is that some animals are more equal than others, as Orwell would put it?
Even I know that.You surely don't imagine that you are a unique source of knowledge about such things do you? So what? It doesn't change the question. Who get to make the call? You surely aren't going to tell me that it must be unanimous are you?
Well that is certainly a masterpiece of Delphic ambiguity. Given the names Jackson, Peters, and Bennett it is pretty clear that they had ancestors who indulged in the activity. The jury is still out on whether Henare qualifies.
Willie doesn't believe in being PC. Sometimes I don't like his approach, but this morning on Radionz he made his point for not being a slang-free society. A bit of to-and-fro is more honest than rigid people complying with the conventions as well as the laws, and being completely shuttered and negative in their minds as to the humanity of the situation.
Being PC in everything is just so PC marty mars. Good to keep on going round in circles, keeps you in touch with yourself, otherwise one can get lost in the harakeke.
You lost me but it's all okay – I am a full on card carrying believer in political correctness as it is known by its enemies and kindness as it is known by its friends.
I can say with surety that the word 'race', in all its lurid connotations, is one of my least favorite words – I might even be so bold as to put it at the top of my disliked words or perhaps the bottom depending upon my fickle mood.
Obviously being Maori, as with any ethnicity, involves more than just having a genetic component. My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group.
It is always hard to know if you are as ignorant as you pretend to be.
Being in the kitchen helping with the tremendous hospitality that Maori turn out for their cultural purposes is one of the Maori women's cultural activities, and the men set everything up, dig the hangi and set it up etc.
It's just division of duties for the successful outcome to a function and not to be judged by pakeha women as not coinciding with their efforts to gain mana and standing for women who have had to fight their way up from a lower status than Maori women had.
I was just tacking myself on to the end with a general comment. It sometimes interferes with the flow of the comments and replies to come in late and add something a bit different solkta.
And agree Sacha. I was stating what I have learned from having been on marae helping and been told and observed what I referred to in my earlier comment.
I have been on many marae events and my grandson is of Ngati-porau, of nga whanau me nga hapu o Ngati Porou, so I enjoy Maori serving of food with aroha and hospitality it is very warm.
I speak very little Maori sadly, but my heart is there but the life is to short.
solkta "My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group."
Can I suggest that you have it quite back-to-front.
It isn't that scots have moved away from scottishness, it is that scottishness has moved forward to new places and cultural activities, thus re-defining that ethnicity.
This idea that ethnicity has strict rules around what you have to do to belong grates like fingernails down a chalkboard. It makes no sense and I reject it. Humanity and its ethnicities have long been in a state of flux and change – immigrating, colonising, going to McDonalds, it never stops moving.
Similarly with maori – it shouldn't be that you have to conduct yourself in certain ways to be that ethnicity, it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity. This is, after all, how that ethnicity and its current cultural activities came into being in the first place…
it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity.
No it should be whatever Maori do as a group. Otherwise you are just talking about 'race'.
I do get your point that culture is not static, but it has to be morphing from one set of parameters to another. Maori culture is obviously different from what it was pre European contact, but it is still distinct from that of other groups.
But it is being done as part of that group – that was my point and why I said “whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori”. Whatever one does with one's life is as part of that group. I don't see how one person's life can be separated out from the group like you suggest.
The principle I outline above is the exact same principle used by maori for various claims made under te tiriti for matters which maori previously had no knowledge of, let alone activity in. For example, radio waves.
Willie Jackson is being empty-headed with his claims and he should turn his mind to this principle, which he has supported countless times himself in the past. What a nincompoop
My understanding of the the claims for the Treaty are that the tikanga is not set in stone; the Treaty is a living thing, changing with times, developments, experiences and perceptions. So the Treaty that was perceived at the time that it was signed, is still the Treaty at a different time but with some different perceptions about it. The main one being that there was an agreement made to preserve and maintain elements of life.
As for being a Maori, my understanding is that it is variable. There may be blood relationships, or it may be acceptance relationships through marriage or even if someone has been accepted as one of the group and become a sister or brother by agreement. This then requires that person to fulfill family duties and responsibilities to that group, hapu or marae, if they want to be fully included. It seems to me that it is a matter of heart, and acceptance, and mutual commitment.
But all Maori aren't equal; different groups have their own ways and perceptions. One tribe may not accept someone from another. And one of my relatives is both Maori and pakeha, pale skinned, from a South Island tribe. Some of them are not fully accepting because of the pale skin. When in Northland around 1950, that tribe's similar attitudes were isolating which led to loneliness.
I am a bit confused I am part Irish/Scottish/Greek/English on my mothers' side of the family, however a family DNA test has come back as mainly Iberian ie Spanish/Portugese and on my fathers side I am mainly Scottish & Maori so what does that make me ?
Going off to a tangent my wife has done my family tree. There is a bit of Scottish, Irish and German in me. I had to have a Cataract operation a few years ago and the surgeon said he was going to fit a Zeiss lens in my eye. I can now say honestly that there is a bit of German in me
As an example of how threads can be disrupted and hard to follow when the reply doesn't state the original commenter, you at 8.51 am saying about being ignorant comes below mine at 10.15 am so you were not referring to me.
It seems it was referring to either Dennis F or Rosemary M further up at 3.1…
The non apology – it's attitudes like jackson expresses, those distorted views, that directly contribute to the appalling statistics young Māori are over represented in – disgraceful.
Look, if you want to criticise a Labour MP then do so directly, like Marty. Being so oblique just makes you seem dishonest. And since when have you ever tried to add anything useful to this site?? All you seem capable of is random misunderstandings of the discourse.
You have taken Henare's stupidity and run with it. Above you have said things like:
"your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong."
and
"Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census?"
which is inexcusably ignorant in this day and age. Life is too short to put up with fools polluting the public pool. Such nonsense would be warmly welcomed at Kiwibog.
So explain why you disagree with the Labour minister's reference to the biological part of Maori identity, and why you disagree with applying a metric to that. And why you lack a sense of humour. 🙄
You are so sure of yourself. You might remember the quote about who are fools and who are wise. When you start talking about Maori proving that biologically you are going back over arguments made decades ago, even a century.
If you know so little about Maori matters better you stay out of giving your opinions – you haven't got up to first base and need to go away, read up and learn. Everybody needs to do some homework for themselves so they can discuss from the point of view of some appropriate authority.
So does that mean you didn't notice that the Labour minister referred to "blood quantum"?? Or do you think blood is not biological??
Did you also not notice that I mostly asked questions? Which of my opinions are you actually referring to? Did you notice that respondents failed to address what he actually said? Do you think such evasion of political comments is what this website ought to feature, and if so, why?
If you get my drift, it ain't about me at all, no matter how hard some respondents are trying to spin it. It's about the news!
It is a good thing for a pakeha to sit back and let Maori sort matters out between themselves. Feelings and tikanga, expectations and resentments may have to be worked through and require a truce between them to their mutual resignation.
That is for them to work out. You can't cut perceptions into thin slices and put them under a microscope. Until you are required to make a decision because you are in a position requiring decisions or legality, then it would be discerning of you to remain politely in the background.
If as a pakeha, you have seen the strong feelings that can arise after the death of a parent between the various siblings, you might have an idea of the emotional aspect to be worked out in relationships.
Sacha @ 3.4 & 3.4.1.1 and she seems to be coming from a pc position, which I'm allergic to. I get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, to me it looks and smells like censorship.
So my stance is that I have as much right to comment on cultural & political matters in Aotearoa as anyone else. To the extent that Maori stuff affect us, I comment on that. If it doesn't affect the pakeha world, I don't. This item does.
The reason is that a new bit of political culture was invented by the three Maori MPs involved. You will see that I introduced the topic with a question that goes straight to the heart of it. The significant point is that nobody has answered the question!! I've seen that pattern since I was a child in the 1950s. Adults would freak out when I asked a simple question or made a simple comment. They would literally freeze, with a look of fear in their eyes. Somehow, I was born with an uncanny knack of uttering the unspeakable.
Nowadays they call it speaking truth to power. When the power lies in social convention, speaking truth shatters it, enabling progress. Those in denial of Maori racism voiced against Maori will studiously continue to evade what has actually happened. It's part of the traditional leftist preference for delusion over reality.
Leftists thinking centrists are rightists is way funnier. No wonder they struggle to figure out which way is up. Reality is so hard for such dimwits to grasp, as you keep on demonstrating…
You don't seem to even know what you think you are let alone what you actually are. Yesterday you were claiming to be Green, but while the Green Party dose not generally identify as being Left it very certainly does not identify as being Centrist.
I've told the history of that here several times over the past few years. The Values Party schism in the mid-seventies was caused by the leftists and centrists being unable to do consensus.
I was too radical that decade to join either group. I persuaded the Greens to go left in '91 when Jeanette Fitzsimons led a session on the question at our conference. My reasoning was that the Bolger govt had already captured several leading environmentalists, so we had to form a viable alternative. Nobody wanted Labour (due to Rogernomics).
There's always been many in the Green Party who prefer non-alignment, but the conference decision was pre-MMP and we had a binary choice only. Russel Norman's straw poll at the 2015 conference (65 in the session) showed the leftists were half the number who put their hands up for the traditional Green position (neither left nor right). I saw that happen.
The problem with people like you & Sacha is the perennial one of always operating from the position of ignorance, while pretending to know stuff. Sad the way the leftist belief system makes many adherents delusional.
He likes to pretend that he has some significant history with the Greens but from what he has said on here it seems that had some involvement in the very early years but then left as he was not a good fit at all. The crap that he has talked today about 'race' would have gone down like a lead balloon both then and now, as would most of his ramblings.
yet they are centrist…as are their voter base…a more middle class party would be hard to find…their one saving grace is in danger of disappearing altogether.
The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's. Winston is Centrist and he is currently fucking up most Green policy objectives.
Centrist does not mean "middle class" and Left does not mean exclusively working class. Karl Marx was very middle class for fucks sake.
The Greens come to the same place as the Left on social policy, they just get their by a different route.
"The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's."
Are they?..and even if they are Labour are hardly 'left' as they subscribe to neoliberalism…as stated the Greens are , and are supported by the middle class as their voter demographic displays…but you keep telling yourself otherwise, it may come true one day
To explain it another way, when Greens say they are not Left or Right they mean that they don't really fit on that spectrum. Centrism fits on that spectrum, right in the middle of it.
The Greens have had a policy for Capital Gains Tax longer than Labour and still do. The Greens are responsible through their agreement for the welfare changes announced today. I can't be fucked giving you more examples but there are many. You can go to the relevant websites and compare.
Yes Labour are not as left as they once were, the Greens are further left, if measured on that spectrum, like i said. Left and Right are only relevant to the context so in NZ Parliamentary Politics today Labour are still left of centre.
And also like i said Centrist does not mean middle class. Have you not heard of Karl Marx? There are huge numbers of lefty middle class people. There is also a significant number of working class people who vote National.
I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change…if they fuck this opportunity up they will never see my vote again….the question you have to ask yourself is how typical am i?
It will be Winston who fucks the Climate Act if anybody. The Greens could bring the gummint down over it, but that would lead to a hugely messy election and probably a Nact led gummint.
No you are not typical of a Green voter. There is about 6% of the vote that is core Green. After that they mostly take votes from Labour. When labour could not find an effective leader people walked to the Greens, and then back again when they finally did.
lf i have voted Green the previous 3 elections im part of that core vote…you cannot know how typical my attitude is…and nor can the party…time will tell.
When i say 6% are "core Green voters" i mean voters who support the Green Kaupapa. By saying I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change you are making it very clear that you are not a core Green voter.
I have voted for them in every election where they have been an option as i have always supported most of their policies.
oh dear you are truly delusional…the Greens received approx 6.3% of the vote last election , or 162000 party votes….whats membership?..id suggest significantly less. probably around 10% of that figure….thats your Green Kuapapa, not the votes.
Had you considered that you might be part of the 0.3%.
The Greens peaked at i think 12.6% in the polls and that was directly after Metiria's speech. They picked up some lefty vote on the back of that. Then Metiria lost control of the narrative and Ardern became Labour leader and went hard on Climate Change, Fresh Water and Child Poverty. 4-5% (percentage points) went back to Labour and 1-2% of swing voters got the frights. The Greens dropped back to mostly their core vote.
If you think you can sort Climate Change without caring about people then best you buy a gun. You will need it. France has started down that road.
In my opinion Paula Bennet is Maori when it suits her, and not when it doesn't.
That is, she plays on her heritage when there is a political advantage to be made from it. But mostly ignores it.
Paula Bennet raises the objection that being Maori is not defined by being able to speak Maori.
And she is right.
And I know that for many with all the will in the world, it can prove to hard to pick up the reo, especially if you have been raised exclusively in the Pakeha tradition.
Bennet has a point there.
But for anyone who ever wanted to get in touch with their Maori Heritage, surely Paula Bennet has had more than enough opportunity to learn Te Reo, that is, if she wanted to.
I mean, despite being in a relatively well paid job, (opposition MP), with relatively little to do and able to set her own agenda. And presumably, with the pick of professional support, able and willing to walk her through it. (If she chose to avail herself of it) has she ever tried to learn the language?
Has she ever taken the time, has she even ever made the effort?
I think if she did, it would be the making of her.
"Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has been called upon to lead the war against killer robots." What, harangue them to death??
"Mary Wareham, advocacy director of the Arms Division of Human Rights Watch, is leading the global campaign to ban fully autonomous weapons… Wareham said New Zealand is the only country in the world to have a Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control, referring to Peters. Asked if the world needs Peters to lead the war on killer robots, Wareham responded: "Certainly. I think he would be an excellent leader.""
Well, okay, Aotearoa leading the way is excellent, but Winston probably ought to delegate the task to Arnie – who knows the scene inside-out. He said he'd be back, eh? Now's the time!
Wtf? Haven't they seen those Terminator movies? A war against killer robots is a terrible idea! Humans are squishy and easily disabled, no match for robots at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to just not build the killer robots in the first place?
"The Justice Select Committee is currently considering a bill to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which would review convictions and sentences and decide whether to refer them to the appeal court. Currently, if someone believes they have suffered a miscarriage of justice they can apply to the Governor-General, who seeks advice from the Minister of Justice, for exercise of the Royal prerogative of mercy that can be used to grant a free pardon or to refer a conviction or sentence back to an appeal court."
"Nigel Hampton QC, forensic science consultant Dr Anna Sandiford and investigator Glynn Rigby, submitted for the New Zealand Public Interest Project. They endorsed the idea of a Commission, but urged caution with appointing judges and suggested adding a provision to allow an appeal after death. In their experience miscarriages of justice usually revolved around poor or inadequate investigation, forensic science, legal defence and sometimes overzealous prosecutors."
I'm pleased to see this group lobbying for a body more representative of the public. The legal establishment has often victimised people in the past. I first suggested a public accountability mechanism in 1991 when I wrote the second draft of the Greens justice policy, as convenor of their justice policy working group. Andrew Little's proposal is a weaker alternative, but it will improve the current system. Keeping the judges out of the review group would serve the public interest, but allowing one or two to participate as advisors could also work well.
A USA Judge who did much to limit miscarriages of justice and undertook legislation that advanced the rights of the poor, black community, has just died. I hadn't heard of this great man so I am passing on his obituary so those who care for what he did can honour Judge Damon Keith's achievements and we can seek to emulate them.
Gluten, soy and GMO, and most importantly meat free burgers are on sale from 7 May at BF 🙂 I can't wait to try it out. Don't think I'll be able to totally eliminate meat (on a keto diet) but every bit counts.
There's no need for meat-free burgers in NZ. Much of our livestock is grass-fed on land that wouldn't be suitable for growing crops anyway. Or should be…
Is plant burger firm Beyond Meat really worth $1.5bn? The US firm, which counts actor and environmentalist Leonardo DiCaprio among its investors, will now offer its shares at between $23 and $25.
The decision to increase the price from the original range of $19 and $21 indicates strong demand for the shares.
But Beyond Meat is loss-making and does not know when it will report a profit.For its most recent financial results for 2018, Beyond Meat said losses hit $29.9m, slightly below the previous year but above a $25.1m loss in 2016…
Beyond Meat is one of a number of so-called "unicorn" companies – which are privately-backed firms worth $1bn or more – to sell their shares to public investors this year.
While we discuss politics and racism there is 'humanism' to argue for – us against technology and its weaponisation and the increasing trend of technology to destroy our lives, gradually or suddenly.
Dennis F at 4 also refers to this.
And also the denial of rights and robbing of land and livelihood from people inconveniently positioned on land with uses for other people. 19th century the Highland Clearances in Scotland – large scale sheep farming over-turning the people’s smallholding-croft system.
I just watche a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
I can't find the piece I read the other day, which would have been mainstream and not dubious, but I had a google, too.
I found a few things that were roughly stating the same thing, though some looked dodgy, the like 12 posts to back their questionable science, so I won't advocate for them here.
I'm happy to be corrected by proper scientists and science, so if their consensus is termites aren't heavier methane producers than cows, so be it.
A few sites put the emissions of termites way above the 20 million tonnes figure, but note the mounds and underground networks act as filters.
Either way, I'll still eat meat, but not bug meat.
Yeah, nah, I'd rather eat that fake crap in the supermarket which costs twice as much as cow mince but with only half the flavour… Or look at rabbit, dog and cat as a cheaper, tasty alternative.
The pigs are still gonna be in trouble though. I'm only gonna give up bacon when they pry it out of my cold dead jaws.
Cats- nah. Turning sunshine into protein in plants is horribly inefficient. Taking another step and running that plant material through an animal to make meat protein just compounds the inefficiency. Taking yet another step and running animal protein through an obligate carnivore to produce slightly different animal protein compounds the inefficiency yet again.
Yeah, I can't quite get up any enthusiasm for eating invertebrates either.
While I eat very little meat, I really can't be arsed with the effort and planning needed to get the full complement of nutrients needed from a fully vege diet. But I'll be quite happy to eat vat-grown animal cells processed into burgers and sausages and mince.
Thinking about it (close to dinner time, after all), I've squished many a land bug, and none of them looked like raw prawns on the inside. Unless the goey innards turn solid when cooked, like an egg does?
Im happy to take a steak or burger for the team to get rid of all those cows, but veggies and veganauts, you animal lovers, if you plan to get rid of all the cows, are you happy to pull the trigger? And if you're not hypocritical about it, ignoring the obvious cognitive dissonance, why can't I eat what you slaughter?
Currently the methane concentration in the atmosphere is around 1900 ppb. Prior to the early 1800s it was very steady at around 700 ppb. The extra methane is responsible for somewhere around 1/4 to 1/3 the global temperature rise since the 1800s, and it's all due to human activities of various kinds, including vastly increasing the global numbers of ruminant livestock.
Yes, it's true that methane oxidises to CO2 and water in the atmosphere, with a half life of around 8 to 12 years. (Half life means every molecule emitted has a 50/50 chance of surviving one half life,and a 1:4 chance of surviving two half lives, 1:8 chance of surviving 3 etc). But while that molecule of CO2 exists in the atmosphere, it is over 100 times more effective at trapping heat then the CO2 molecule it will oxidise into.
The relatively rapid decay of methane means there's a fairly good "bucket with a hole in it" analogy for thinking about methane concentration. Imagine a bucket with a hole in it, and a tap filling it with water. The water flowing in represents the methane we're dumping into the atmosphere, the height of the water in the bucket represents methane concentration in the atmosphere, and the water flowing out represents methane getting oxidised to CO2 and water in the atmosphere. The flow of water out of the hole is a bit responsive to the water level, it flows a bit faster with a high water level, a bit slower with a low water level.
Things were fairly well in balance up to around the 1800s at a fairly low tap flow, and a fairly low level in the bucket, and a low outflow. But when we turned the tap up by finding and burning fossil fuels and increasing agriculture all across the world, the water level rose dramatically. A big part of that turning the tap up was hugely increasing numbers of ruminant livestock. Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
Yep and stop using vehicles with internal combustion engines and oil derivatives to make tyres, so rail with steel wheels and electric locomotives is our future.
What is it with you that every topic needs to somehow get turned to trains? Was your childhood spent desperately wanting a train set to play with and you never got one for Christmas?
No Cleangreen wanting trains is because of a large part of adulthood petitioning the government to grow some brains, and do the transport thing in a way that is sustainable and provides amenities that Vogel realised in early colonial times..
If you took any real interest in what people on this blog are really on about apart from just a way to keep you from ennui you would know this. I think you come from the USA and no doubt things are different there.
You don't get anything done in NZ unless you are prepared to keep on about it for a couple of decades. If you ever want anything done that is good for the country Andre, don't ever think that you will get it for Christmas because Santa will see how good and right you are. Down here in the Southern Hemisphere you have to make sure that you keep asking because your notes to Santa often get mislaid.
Wags asked about methane cycling in and out of the atmosphere and cows as a part of that cycle. Termites and methane is clearly a closely related topic. So WTF is the story with hijacking the thread to go completely off-topic to trains? It makes trying to follow the original topic and related topics very disjointed.
Especially when it's so easy to just start a new separate thread about trains. Nobody is going to object to that. But thread hijacking is a really good way to get people's backs up.
You said Andre: Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
That caught Cleangreens attention because he always reads your good comments, and then he thought of other ways to help the CC count of whatever go down plus the extra global heating reducing, and then he put in the bit about how using trains would be beneficial for that. So all quite easy to follow when you see the activist mind at work.
Trains to Gisborne and the usefulness they will have towards saving fuel and carbon credits and so on are top of the bill for Cleangreen and rightly so being more important than lots of things we discuss.
And because we have to say everything to NZ politicians and planners a thousand times before they ever hear of the idea, Cleangreen is just bringing the count up.
"Another visit from the thread purity police, lol." – yes, it's a thing.
Events seem to conspire to derail my life – why should a blog thread (on Open Mike) be any different?
Someone else will have commented (over the years), but why is it "Open Mike" (< 2 million Google matches) rather than "Open Mic" (> 17 million Google matches)? English/US difference?
[Agree that ‘thread derailing’ is poor etiquette, so apologies for derailing the derail, just for a bit of fun.]
Had just finished work and had a cantankerous manager have a crack.
I picked up a touch of snark in yr comment and that was what I was responding to.
To draw a long bow, those cows are generally about 'coz A, the are dairy and their milk leaves by truck or B, they are beef cattle and their protein leaves by truck.
You can't have your methaney livestock in isolation.
Remember, the (primary) problem is heat absorption. Because methane is 20 times more greenhousey than CO2 that part of the cycle increases global warming.
But also, some fertiliser comes from fossil sources, so reintroduces more carbon compounds into the atmosphere in addition to the cycle.
And lastly, there's the "what was the land used for previously" question: burning the rain forest to make a cattle farm releases most of the carbon that was sunk into tree mass.
So the idea of "continuous cycle" is true to a point, but contributions to GW are often not as simple as that concept would suggest.
It's a factoid that's been taken out of its relevant context and used to hokey up some special pleading for some that don't want to take responsibility and make changes.
As a standalone assertion, that methane rapidly oxidises to CO2, and that plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere to be eaten by cows that then belch methane back into the atmosphere in a continuous cycle, is correct. And it is also correct that if numbers of cows do not change (and other methane emissions do not change) then methane levels in the atmosphere won't change.
But the context needed to understand the significance of that cycle is very important. First, methane levels now are nearly triple what they were throughout all previous human history, and the methane levels we have now are incompatible with maintaining a livable climate.
The massive increase in ruminant livestock numbers we now have over what was present through all previous human history is a significant contributor to the extremely high methane levels we now have. Reducing ruminant livestock numbers is one of the easiest steps we could take to reduce methane levels.
A quick Google revealed a recent (2019) paper (in a well-respected scientific journal) that suggests scientists still don't know enough to accurately predict trends in atmospheric methane concentrations.
Interpreting contemporary trends in atmospheric methane
Alexander J. Turner, Christian Frankenberg, and Eric A. Kort
PNAS (Feb 2019) 116 (8) 2805-2813.
"We show that net-zero cost emission reductions can lead to a declining atmospheric burden, but can take three decades to stabilize."
Fuck this new editor sucks donkey dick, it seems to want to truncate the URL, hopeless.
I'll repost the comment
I put up a video about cows, methane and surprise, got accused of being a denialist
I realize this is a touchy subject, but people probably misunderstood where I was coming from, I’m not a scientist or have vast in-depth knowledge of climate change.
I posted a video which I thought was interesting as it was saying something completely different from what I’ve seen in the media and thought I’d put it up here and get feedback.
Asking questions doesn’t make one a denialist.
Now about methane
Methane concentrations have increased from around 775 parts per billion in pre-industrial times to around 1800 now, due entirely to human activities
In the video methane and ruminants(cows) was shown to be a natural cycle where methane was endlessly recycled and nothing changed and everything was kept in balance, obviously if more cattle are added then the amount of methane would increase.
So I went and had a look to see if cow/beef numbers have increased massively in the past 50 years and surprisingly they’ve been rather static.
That also got me thinking pre-industrial there must have been a shit tonne of natural ruminants like Bison, Deer etc. and before them big animals like mammoths which would have been belching out methane by the tonne as well as many wetlands which have been destroyed due to farming
The question the author was trying to answer was why methane levels didn’t start to rise until the industrial age.
According to the author One reason methane levels remained flat was that cattle and other ruminants (wild and domesticated) lived in intact grassland ecosystems and helped build healthy soils that contain soil microbes called methanotrophs that reduce atmospheric methane (2). Thus maintained grassland ecosystems function as methane sinks, and bank as much as 15% of the earth’s methane (3) Tillage for crops reduces the soil’s capacity to bank methane (as does exposed uncovered soil) plus also releases carbon into the atmosphere (4). Use of synthetic fertilizers also adversely impacts soil methanotrophs (5). Glyphosate in no tilled systems according to industry funded research doesn’t impact soil microbial activity. Though research by other researchers contradicts this industry perspective and details how herbicides like glyphosate adversely change the makeup of soil microbes (6).
If that is the case because all our dairy and beef is grass fed we do not actually have that much of an impact on global methane levels? should we even be paying carbon taxes?
Or if we do shouldn’t it be more vegetable growers and not so much farmers?
The author points the finger more at natural gas and writes.
Meanwhile the methane from fracking and natural gas extraction, transportation and refining, in general, apparently has been underestimated significantly maybe by 5 times or 500% per some recent studies on this topic (9). Not to mention China is massively increasing their use of natural gas and fracking. Coincidentally, the largest increases in methane levels occurred in the 1960’s when natural gas use increased significantly- nearly ten-fold.
Oh god we have seen that shit on here before. I'm sure it was you who posted it too. It is Friday night, give us a break for fucks sake.
Robin Grieve, Act candidate for Whangarei. Act, the only party that has ever argued that buffer zones between GE and organic farms were viable. My suggestion was napalm every 30 seconds.
<i>I just watched a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
the problem is that there are multiple sources of methane other than ruminants…a major contributor is the gas industry…which is unrelated to the flow argument and growing
It's never simple bwaghorn – about natural processes.
What do you mean they are rapidly planting the hills killing off our way of life. Do you mean that hillside pastures are being taken up by tree plantations? Pinus radiata?
I understand that the idea of planting widely allowing grazing between once the trees have got established is probably the way to go. But don't know for sure, and if so what species? Is it possible for us to not have pinus but another one kinder to the soil.
Perhaps they should be planting big bamboos – not keeping on the old mousewheel of pinus radiata because – fast and it's what we know. Couldn't there be some R&D money to help with trials for diversification that would be studied and published benefitting all with the information.
I understand that the idea of planting widely allowing grazing between once the trees have got established is probably the way to go. But don't know for sure, and if so what species? Is it possible for us to not have pinus but another one kinder to the soil.
This was put to bed with a lot of trials by the old Forest Service in the 70's.
Result – crap trees due to the wide spacing leading to too much branch / canopy and crap pasture due to the shading and water draw by the trees. I think most of the trials were abandoned after less than 15 years, at least the one I had a little to do with at Tikitere was.
That is interesting. So can't put trees in for plantation purposes wide spread. What if the trees were like tagstase? and the animals could both graze grass and the tree, and get shade, and the farmer have some advantage from carbon credits from the tree left in situ? Shade is going to be something that cannot be ignored with the advent of CC becoming hot as hell out there, which would be a variable not high at the time of the trials you referred to.
What do you say about the scenario I put together for possible adoption in the coming years. I guess the old Forest Service in the 70's was still steeped in p.radiata, so different tree – different result perhaps. And edible. And maybe more opportunity for understorey growth with other tree types as I think pinus kills and dries off undergrowth.
Heard of an area that has lost 100 000 stock units to trees lately . At roughly 1 job per 5000 stock units thats a massive whole in the community. Less kids in schools less partners doing other work . Etc .
That's a giant change of finances. Not much coming in for 20-30 years so who would be parking so much finance in the trees for that long, and they might burn down. Would they get insurance in the first place?
Even when foreign money or aggregation of farms happens, there are managers and workers required. Going into trees like that will certainly take people out of the area.
Professor Sir John Curtice, "polling expert": "There have been some remarkably good figures for the Greens so far, who on average are running at 12% of the vote in the wards that they are fighting, up 5 points on their performance in last year's local elections."
Update from Curtice: "Note that in contrast to the position for Labour, compared with 2015 the Conservative vote is down much more heavily in the south of England (by 8 points) as compared with the north of England (by 2 points). If this pattern continues then Tory losses in the south of England tomorrow could still prove to be quite substantial."
Labour are tanking at the moment, with 2 councils lost and -50 councillors.
They may yet, even though polling at around 30%, win a general election, though it'll be more down to Farrage and his brexit it party bleeding support from the Tories at about 18% nationally.
The lib dems are the nights winners, so far, which may also impede on labour in those 3 way seats they need to win to take a majority at parliament.
Welfare working group report just released. Perfectly reasonable recommendations but given this report only exists as part of the confidence & supply agreement with the Greens and would never have happened otherwise, it's safe to say the vast majority of it will be watered down, delayed or totally ignored, especially the raising of the core benefit rates.
Keep questioning I think and they won't be able to get away with a watered down version. It sounds so promising that i feel tremendously hopeful. If there is a spark of old Labour to be dug around and watered, it might send up shoots and flower. A thing of beauty and a joy forever.
Beneficiaries who work will be able to earn more before their pay is docked, and the sanction against solo mothers who don't name the father of their children will be scrapped, as the government begins its overhaul of the welfare system.
If bennies can earn much more, then they can get themselves onto the work train when possible. If they can get child sitting during school holidays then they can work that into an earning scheme that will provide those needed shoes, the sports gear, the inclusion of their kids in events at school.
And not naming the father gives them the option of not including a ne'er-do-well into the family life the mother is trying to build. He may know himself but won't have the department after him for money and it is better if the aim is to help the mother to become self-sustaining which is a good role model for the youngsters. Not having a druggie, alcoholic or play-acting father around, will make for stability and will be likely to cut into the stats for domestic violence. There is choice involved as to whether to have occasional visits or not if the father is a degenerate or just unreliable. It is a blow to a child if a visit is set up and the child is ready and waiting, and the father doesn't turn up, or is drunk and disorderly, or is subtly demeaning of the mother’s efforts so the child is left idolising the idea of him as generous, and the mother as being unworthy, and not to be fully loved which would cut into the mutual support that builds good family ties and relationships.
National bereft of effective positive ideas as usual with their usual expressions of negativity. Louise Upston with this one:
"National disagrees with the bulk of the report, which would see fewer obligations imposed on beneficiaries and fewer incentives to get back into work.
They still haven't caught up with womens lib yet. To them it was university women's lib, so they could grab the well-paying jobs when available that came with perks like maternity leave. Ordinary women were neither to share this bounty, or receive the respect due to mothers and partners trying to bring up healthy children, with values of honesty and kindness, with hope for a skilled job at a decent wage. 'Dragging up your kids' is the disparaging view of better-off National looking at lower income people's efforts, and they fund to match and perpetuate that malign view.
@Grey- my view of welfare does tend to be through the illness/disability lens, ie the one that rarely gets mentioned. Incentives to work mean absolutely nothing to a lot of us, but being able to pay for medical treatment without starving, does. That's not to say I'm not interested in what else is happening in general, but we don't tend to rate much of a mention. Besides, it's hard for the bashers to have a direct attack at us so no air time in the media either. I wish I could join you in feeling hopeful. But history dictates that, even if a few positive changes occur over the next few years, as soon as the government changes again- and being NZ it inevitably will- the first thing the Nats will do is attack welfare.
Something slightly amusing though- I noticed Stuff had opened their comments section for this story, so I posted a comment reminding them about their new policy of not opening stories about beneficiaries for comments, and was the temptation to let back in the bashers too much for them? Funnily enough the comments are now closed 🙂
After reading your and Rosemarys comments i realise that I don't know much about the disability allowance. The welfare net has been set far too high for anyone to be able to fall into it for years. The stupid way that supplements etc were set up should have been adjusted for inflation at the beginning and often were not.
Anyway here is a cute little UK ad from the past about finding work that the increased front line staff might copy.
Jobs for women.
We might get something in the Budget but Ms Sepuloni doesn't sound promising. 'Staged implementation' makes me think of a performance of Shakespeares 'All's Well that Ends Well' .
Some improvement…getting rid of the sanction for solo mums who don't name the father and increase the amount earned before abatement but….sweet fa for anyone else.
However, Sepuloni said the Government had decided against a recommended move to increase benefit levels by up to 47 per cent immediately so Kiwis could "live in dignity", and was instead "looking at a staged implementation" of change.
It would also allocate $76.3 million for 263 new frontline staff with the sole "focus of helping more people into meaningful and sustainable work".
So, it looks like more of the arbeit mach frei that the Nats were so fond of.
When I saw the headline you linked to Kay I thought of you. I've said this before, but when Peter graduated from the Supported Living Payment to the Super we were actually able to save a few dollars while living almost full time in our Bus and largely free camping.
That is how much difference there is between the SLP and Super.
Maybe they're saving something for those on SLP as a Budget day headline?
@Rosemary, I'd like to think so but it seems pretty clear they're not going to increase any of the core benefits. The one thing they could do (and it wouldn't upset most of the voters either) is getting rid of that pathetic cap on the disability allowance, $62/week or whatever it is now. It hasn't been lifted for years. That would help a lot without having to roll things over onto TAS etc, minimise paperwork.
My rent is now $30/week more than my core benefit so I'm existing entirely off the supplements which I'm maxed out on, and I doubt I'm alone…
Key recommendations of the welfare expert advisory group:
Increase main benefits by between 12 percent and 47 percent
Remove some benefit obligations and sanctions
Fully index all income support payments and thresholds annually to movements in average wages of prices, whichever is the greater
Index accommodation supplement rates to movements in housing costs
Consider introducing a living alone payment that contributes to the additional costs of adults living alone
Reform Working for Families
Reform supplementary assistance and hardship assistance so they are adequate
Ensure sufficient resourcing for frontline services
Help recipients of sole parent support return to part-time work when their youngest child is six years old
Prioritise a reduction in outstanding benefit debt through sustainable repayments and minimise the creation of overpayments, including reviewing recoverable hardship assistance grants
Instigate a cross-government approach to managing debt to government agencies
Seems the government has largely ignored pretty much all of the suggestions.
Mostly interested in happy- clappy headline grabbers.
You sound very religious Gabby. I guess we will all give thanks and prayers for their happy future together, both trying to multi-task, in a balanced modern relationship.
Do you mean so he can get his parliamentary super? I think Winston is so super that has been allocated long ago. And I think he deserves it as he has kept on making politics look vital and meaningful, at least some;times.
"Once you get on to the third or more sequential contract, the person who's on the one-year contract that has been sequentially agreed starts to have an ongoing expectation of employment,"Kiely says.
Except those pesky housing targets won't be met, the trees won't be planted and those child poverdy markers going the wrong direction isn't anything to be pleased about
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.
Thanks Cinny and Anne, for some decency. I am missing veteuviper and find much of the comment on here a little depressing and very sour, so I am on holiday for a while from the Standard, and I notice a few other absences. Cheers.
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.
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This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad. Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters is predicting a hard Brexit for the United Kingdom, as he believes British Prime Minister Boris Johnson won’t be able to negotiate terms before the October 30 deadline. The Minister, who was one of the first to publicly come out and predict British voters would leave ...
Speaking at the Council of Trade Unions' (CTU) biennial conference, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters told unionists that any future attacks on the Government won't work. "Now, we are being attacked by the union movement in this country. You can have your views but I'm here to say standing ...
We want every New Zealander to be happy, safe, and healthy. To do this, we need to support strong, safe communities, and a robust and efficient health system. ...
Defence Minister Ron Mark has used his powers to overrule a noise complaint ruling against Whenuapai airbase on the grounds of "national security". The Environment Court last month released a ruling in favour of a private developer, declaring the Auckland airbase had to comply with noise restrictions when it performs ...
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has opened fire against "unreconstructed morons" after NZ First MP Shane Jones was photographed on holiday holding an AR-15 rifle. Mr Peters is defending Mr Jones, telling Magic Talk host Peter Williams that his MP was just having fun "like most people do". "The ...
New Zealand First Deputy Leader and Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau was in attendance during the morning blessing of the Rotorua Lakefront development project. Around 60 people gathered on the shores of Lake Rotorua, including city mayor Steve Chadwick and deputy Dave Donaldson. The Lakefront development is a ...
Forestry Minister Shane Jones is considering reining in on conversions of farmland to forestry, and also issued a warning to foreign-owned forestry companies that make up nearly 75 per cent of the industry. He said too many foreign companies had not provided enough access for domestic processors to get timber. ...
Speaking to Radio NZ, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters said the tightening of the parental category visa is a direct result of the Party’s coalition negotiations with the Labour Party. He said the new changes switch the financial onus from the parent moving to New Zealand to the child ...
The Coalition Government is set to cut red tape in the building and construction sector in an effort to allow more houses to be built, including prefabricated houses. The changes will enable the mass factory production of "high quality" buildings, slash the likely number of building inspections for factory produced ...
Since coming into Government, we’ve worked hard to tackle homelessness and make sure everyone has a warm, dry home. And today, on World Homeless Day, we want to report back and update you on our progress so far. ...
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has hit back at National Party leader Simon Bridges who criticized the Coalition Government’s approach to crime, and said that the latter isn't credible in his attack on the Government over gang recruitment. "We've got as massive drug problem in this country. It is ...
New Zealand Mānuka honey exporters have welcomed an initiative by the Coalition Government to help secure the term “mānuka honey” to be used exclusively by Kiwi exporters, ensuring that our multimillion-dollar industry is protected. Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones had recently announced that a Provincial Growth Funding of $5.7 ...
Political commentator Mike Hosking has labelled New Zealand First leader Winston Peters as “the voice of reason in a government soft on drugs”, for the Party’s stance on drug testing at music festivals. “If common sense is worth a vote, Winston Peters is quids in,” Mr Hosking said. The Labour ...
Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau has announced Provincial Growth Funding to ensure work opportunities in Turangi and Whanganui, through its skills and employment programme, Te Ara Mahi. A fund of $500,000 will go to Rafting NZ in Turangi for a 16-week river guide training course to train ...
Treasury has shown that the Coalition Government has a $7.5 billion surplus, which is $4 billion higher than what was expected in the 2019 Budget unveiled last May. It is also $2 billion higher than the actual surplus unveiled this time last year, and at a size that has not ...
Official Information Act figures released to NZME show there were 350 assaults on officers in the year to the end of June, 79 more than the year before. The increase in attacks have sparked calls for more legal protection for first responders to be enacted. The assaults included officers being ...
“Nobody wants to see babies uplifted”, this was the pronouncement of Minister for Children Hon. Tracey Martin as her department, Oranga Tamariki, faces multiple inquiries into the number of babies being taken from their families. “But a baby can die with a single punch, “the Minister continued. “So sometimes, Oranga ...
We're making progress on tackling the long-term challenges: from homelessness, to strengthening border security, to bringing banking back New Zealand's small towns. ...
Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones has backed the ambitious plan to move Auckland’s port to Northport, at Whangarei harbour, which he says will be the “King Kong of infrastructure”. The plan is part of the recommendations of a six-person independent working group, which has recommended the Ports of Auckland be ...
A six-member independent working group selected the option of moving Auckland’s port to Northport, in Whangarei, ahead of other options. In what could be New Zealand’s most ambitious infrastructure project yet, a major expansion of the Marsden Point port could happen within 15 years. The project, officially called the “Upper ...
The final Electricity Price Review recommended prohibiting prompt payment discounts but allowing “reasonable” late fees. The findings of this review was welcomed by the Coalition Government, but they hope companies will follow through with its recommendations without regulations needed to be passed. Meridian Energy had already stopped prompt payment discounts, ...
Fletcher Tabuteau, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF)through its skills and employment programme, Te Ara Mahi,will invest nearly $600,000 to ensure work opportunities for locals in Turangia and Whanganui, Parliamentary Under Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. “I’m pleased to announce the PGF ...
An export-led economy is one of New Zealand First’s key principles, and our commitment to achieving this is shown by the continuing skyrocketing demand for our beef and sheep meat exports. Beef + Lamb New Zealand's New Season Outlook 2019-20 report forecasts beef, lamb and mutton prices to lift from ...
Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today in Gisborne an investment of $17.27m into bringing “world-leading” food-growing technology and the creation of more than 100 new jobs in the East Coast city. The funding comes from the Provincial Growth Fund, and included a $15 million loan to LeaderBrand, a ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development More than 100 people in Tairāwhiti’s Tolaga Bay will benefit from two employment initiatives supported by the Provincial Growth Fund, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Employment Minister Willie Jackson announced today. “Tolaga Bay is an incredibly tight-knit community, but one in ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is supporting Gisborne business Leaderbrand to produce salad vegetables year round and create more jobs in the Tairāwhiti region, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “Our support for Leaderbrand will help them build large greenhouses ...
“Nobody wants to see babies uplifted”, this was the pronouncement of Minister for Children Hon. Tracey Martin as her department, Oranga Tamariki, faces multiple inquiries into the number of babies being taken from their families. “But a baby can die with a single punch, “the Minister continued. “So sometimes, Oranga ...
Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has praised the promise by New Zealand’s biggest banks not to close any provincial branches while the Coalition Government trials regional banking hubs across the country. The Minister said the announce was the “first sign of hope for regional communities”, many of which have ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, New Zealand First Leader New Zealand First is proud to have delivered an upgrade of the SuperGold Card website and a new smartphone app, which will help unlock the full benefits of the SuperGold Card for 750,000 New Zealand seniors.Party Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters, ...
Delivering a key election campaign promise, New Zealand First is proud to have accomplished a long overdue upgrade of the SuperGold Card today. At an event in Auckland, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters joined Minister for Seniors Hon. Tracey Martin in unveiling the new website and smartphone app which ...
The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School. The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines. The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic. Environment ...
The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori, Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change. “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security. The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone. The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration MEDIA STATEMENT Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
"Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League. Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act. “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
As the New Zealand First Party gathers for its annual conference, the question swirling in the year is how it can carve out a path to avoid electoral defeat in 2020, writes Jo Moir for RNZ. It’s not you, it’s me. It’s a familiar break up excuse that’s used ...
To the early intervention therapists, to the teachers, to the speech therapists, the occupational therapists, music therapists, diabetes nurses and all: you change the world.When I was married almost a decade ago we had the following reading at our wedding:You are holding up a ceilingwith both arms. It is very ...
The faces said it all. The smiles of the European leaders crowded round Boris after the Brexit deal was struck. The deal his opponents – no, pretty much everyone – said was impossible.So what’s in it? The detail is still opaque, but subject to gremlins in the fine print, ...
Iran attracts an onslaught of negative media in New Zealand and Western media. But is it fair or deserved? David Robie has spent several weeks travelling in the country on sabbatical and finds the media negativity far from the reality of the “most friendly” country he has ever visited ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra [embedded content]University of Canberra Deputy Vice-Chancellor Professor Leigh Sullivan discusses the week in politics with Michelle Grattan. They talk about Alan Jones accusing Prime Minister Scott Morrison of failing the immediate needs of drought-striken farmers, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anita Parbhakar-Fox, Senior Research Fellow in Geometallurgy/Applied Geochemistry, The University of Queensland Last month, scientists uncovered a mineral called Edscottite. Minerals are solid, naturally occurring substances that are not living, such as quartz or haematite. This new mineral was discovered after an ...
The Auckland-based collective talk origins, ambitions and making the rave accessible to everybody.Friendly Potential is an outfit that defies easy summary. They’re among the country’s most ambitious and prolific club promoters. In their almost five-years of operation, they’ve been responsible for the local debuts of electronic music icons including Detroit ...
Analysis: Two polls show support for Labour sliding, the government is accused of breaking another promise and the Greens's refusal to back a bill forces Labour to rely on National to get it through. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kiera Lindsey, University of Technology Sydney One spring morning in 1850, over 8,000 Sydneysiders marched through town to protest the resumption of transportation – the act of sending British criminals to Australia. It was the largest protest in Australia thus far, an ...
Two shareholders of failed insurance firm company CBL are leading a class action against the firm's former directors seeking compensation for financial losses. ...
Sam Brooks recaps the third episode of RuPaul’s Drag Race UK, and wonders why some of these queens don’t know how to sew.This episode asks, and sort of answers the main question that millions of people across the world: why would you come on Drag Race and not know how to sew?!There ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John M Clarke, Team Leader, Regional Projections, CSIRO Last month we lost Dr Penny Whetton – one of the world’s most respected climate scientists and a brilliant mentor to the next generation of researchers. Penny will also be remembered as a passionate ...
Ten moose were upended into the Dusky Sounds in 1910. Now, their descendants are getting their day in the sun.The climate crisis is affecting wildlife all over the country: rockhopper penguin populations are in drastic decline, tuatara eggs aren’t hatching females, and the ice walls keeping predators away from kea ...
Security footage of NZ First MP Clayton Mitchell being thrown out of a Tauranga bar looks unlikely to ever be aired - despite his leader Winston Peters promising a screening. ...
Amnesty International is concerned that Justice Minister Andrew Little's Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill could have the potential to undermine human rights in New Zealand. The Bill would give the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to ...
Expect the old campaigner Winston Peters to be at his belligerent best as he gears up for another election. He’s kept his party alive for 27 years and he shows no sign of quitting. The omens may be bleak—polls this week showed his party below the 5% threshold– but Peters ...
The National Party has agreed to take down any videos breaching the current rules around the use of parliamentary TV footage, as all parties try to reach consensus. ...
Recently the Health Promotion Agency released a report into hazardous drinking in New Zealand. The report shows that Māori who drink alcohol and live in deprived circumstances are less likely to have a harmful relationship with alcohol if they ...
Turkey-US joint-statement on military ops within Syria’s territory.The Turkish Embassy in New Zealand issued Evening Report this unabridged United States of America-Republic of Turkey joint-statement detailing what both sides agreed to regarding Turkey’s military operations within the so-called security zone within Syrian territory near Turkey’s southern border. It is ...
Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash didn’t mention what winners will receive, when he proudly called for entries for a new public award “to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector”. Nor did he mention the cost to taxpayers of this initiative. Point of Order’s checks with the website where more details have ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Fiona R Martin, Senior Lecturer in Convergent and Online Media, University of Sydney One of the basic tenets of the ABC Act is independence from government. Yet once again, in contravention to that principle, the federal government is trying to push through ...
A new poem by Auckland poet Lily Holloway.modernity to globalisationwhen I get there as still life and landscape and also portraitureseeking the cacti in small pots who dot the globeslices of pie offer up the vision after the sermonexpressing emotions without coherent narrative supportbecause no artist responded to this callemploying ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is calling on Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi to rule out any taxpayer-funded purchase or bailout for Mediaworks’s channel Three. Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke says, “For the last few months Mediaworks ...
The Police Commissioner's announcement that squadcars of officers with automatic rifles will patrol New Zealand's streets is dangerous and unnecessary, according to the criminal justice community organisation People Against Prisons Aotearoa. The ...
News broke this morning that Mediaworks is seeking to sell off, and even contemplating closing, its TV division. What might that mean for journalism?For journalism in New Zealand, the loss of Three’s TV division is a devastating blow. It is not yet known whether any of the news properties will ...
In our defence of our coalition Government policy on climate change, we fully support Government plan to use rail funding for rail infrastructure upgrades to promote use rail infrastructure for freight around NZ. ...
The billions of tonnes of plastic in our oceans isn’t going away any time soon, but innovative companies here and abroad are working together to find silver linings to this daunting problem.Fishing boats head out to sea and set their nets. They go back to shore. They head back out, ...
An EveningReport.nz investigation by Kevin ListKiwibank services. Image by Kevin List.Evening Report looks into the separation of Kiwibank from New Zealand Post, and considers the impact on the public’s access to banking services in their communities.Kiwibank. What’s going on? Kiwibank and New Zealand Post are in the ...
Local Government New Zealand today confirmed what many local election commentators have observed; that more of the voting public cast their ballots in favour of women candidates than ever before. ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington (this week we totted up the data a day early, on Wednesday, to let our books ed. ...
New Zealand's mineral manufacturing sector is expected to face some testing times, with softer prices, tighter margins and sluggish export markets. ...
Portugal has been painted by pro-cannabis legalisation groups as a model to follow. Yet just last month, the mayor of Porto contradicted his previous pro-harm reduction position and endorsed reintroducing criminal penalties for drug use in public spaces. ...
Chief of Defence Force Air Marshal Kevin Short announced today the inclusion of six Cook Island First World War soldiers in the New Zealand and Commonwealth War Graves Commission’s official rolls of honour. ...
The latest statistics released by the Health Promotion Agency showing a dramatic fall in the numbers of cigarettes being sold in supermarkets, service stations, and liquor stores are being welcomed by the Vaping Trade Association of New Zealand (VTANZ). ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.NZ First Thomas Coughlan (Stuff): Where to from here? How NZ First will win in ...
Aotearoa Climate Emergency (ACE), a climate change network, will host a conference in Wellington on 11 November (Armistice Day) to promote holding a Citizens Assembly in 2020, as a way of breaking the current political deadlock on treating climate ...
MediaWorks’ owners have called time after years of losses from its TV division. Sources say the company will announce it is for sale – if no buyers emerge, it will close within months.Three is facing the biggest crisis in its three decade history today, as its ownership will soon announce ...
Sam Brooks reviews Amazon Prime’s Modern Love, an anthology series based on the New York Times column dedicated to ‘love in all its forms’. A first date that ends up in the emergency room. A flagging marriage that finds new energy through tennis. The founder of a dating app who doesn’t ...
If we want to grow support for New Zealand’s aid, we need to get better at partnering with the ‘unlike-minded’ as well as the ‘like-minded’, and much better at telling people what we do with the money they give, says Josie Pagani, Executive ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Orsola De Marco, Astrophysicist , Macquarie University If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, send it to curiouskids@theconversation.edu.au.How are stars made? –Zali, age 8, Karkoo, South Australia. How are stars made? Well, stars are not ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gita Mishra, Professor of Life Course Epidemiology, Faculty of Medicine, The University of Queensland All women know to expect the time in life when their periods finish and they reach menopause. Many might even look forward to it. What many women don’t ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul McGreevy, Professor of Animal Behaviour and Animal Welfare Science, University of Sydney Since ancient times, horse behaviour, and the bond between horses and humans, has been a source of intrigue and fascination. The horse-lore that has accumulated over the centuries is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachael Wallis, Lecturer and Honorary Research Fellow, University of Southern Queensland A move to the country is often presented in popular culture as an idyllic life, a place where you can escape the pressures of the city. It’s in television shows such ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Holden, Professor of Economics, UNSW The just-announced inquiry into Australia’s retirement income system ought to be anything but run-of-the-mill. Taking place 25 years after the introduction of compulsory superannuation, it provides an opportunity to either fix a broken system, or discard ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Allan McCay, Law Lecturer, University of Sydney The rise of artificial intelligence has led to widespread concern about the role of humans in the workplaces of the future. Indeed, Israeli historian, futurist and publishing sensation Yuval Noah Harari warns in his most ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Saunders, Phd candidate, University of Wollongong Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are advised this article contains images and names of deceased people. You leave Sydney and head for holidays on the South Coast. You plan to catch a quick surf, ...
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Clayton Mitchell denies accusations around a night out, food insecurity on the rise, and UK PM Boris Johnson secures deal with dubious prospects.NZ First MP Clayton Mitchell has got himself in a spot of late night bother in a Tauranga ...
As the rugby world wrestles with the new reality that players can, and will, be dismissed for accidental contact with an opponent’s head it's worth pondering the fate of three All Blacks not selected for the Ireland quarterfinal. ...
A new exhibition in Raetihi offers a rare opportunity to see early, colonialism-focused works by Wellington artist Barbara Strathdee, writes Pat Baskett. ...
Italy's Ambassador to New Zealand Fabrizio Marcelli responds to Newsroom stories - and The Detail podcasts - questioning the price of imported tinned tomatoes in light of reports of slave labour in the industry in his home country. ...
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Avengers: Endgame for scientists.
Gravitational waves hunt now in overdrive
Is it even possible for Maori to be racist towards each other? Some folks seem to believe it is: "National Party deputy leader Paula Bennett has accused Minister Willie Jackson of racism, saying he questioned whether she's Māori enough." https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/willie-jackson-paula-bennett-locked-in-fierce-racism-row.html
And how can we tell if someone is Maori enough anyway? Genetic analysis? Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census? Interesting road opening up here, but ought we to head down it?
"Jackson's Labour Māori caucus colleague Peeni Henare went further, actually questioning whether Bennett is Māori enough." Big call, claiming the second question is further than the first, but that's journalists for you. Just questions so far. No actual judgments.
"I haven't seen her contribution to the community for Māori kaupapa, I haven't seen her on the marae, I haven't seen her dry dishes, I haven't seen her do a karanga – therefore, it should be raising the question," he said.
Henare manages to tick at least two boxes with this. Bennett (who is a sad apology for a human being) is condemned as being not Maori enough by a Maori male because she doesn't behave the way he thinks a Maori woman should?
Sigh.
Criticise the woman for her many, many appalling words and actions as a politician, but damning her because she fails to fit his view of an acceptable Maori woman is a sacking offense.
Stupid men. Poor Ardern having to sort this one out.
Turns out there was context that the Newshub report didn't mention: "How does he [Jackson] determine whether the Māori in the Mana in Mahi programme are Māori enough to be counted?" she asked after Jackson said of the 143 clients have been placed in the programme 75 participants – some 52 per cent – identify as Māori."
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12227351
Henare's position is also expanded here: ""blood quantum simply isn't enough" when it comes to being Māori. "I've always felt that you have to reach a threshold of need, participation and contribution in Māori Kaupapa. If you don't, of course, questions are going to be raised." He said he was "more than happy" for those questions to be raised of anybody who claims to be Māori who does not meet that threshold."
Science would measure the blood quantum via genetics, but he's making it clear that there's a cultural determinant that applies equally. Where does that leave urban Maori who have evolved several generations since the colonial era, many of whom apparently become disconnected from their tribal roots? Required to re-enculture themselves to qualify?
Science would measure the blood quantum via genetics,
No, Social Science would look at culture. Biology has nothing to do with it other than the person having a Maori ancestor.
You really believe blood is a cultural construct?? Most people believe it is a physical thing. Science usually proves stuff by examining physical evidence. Seems like Henare is acknowledging that via his reference: "blood quantum". He then includes culture as part of identity.
His application of both/and logic seems appropriate to me, yet your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong. Why do you disagree with Henare?
No, blood is a red liquid that transports oxygen and nutrients through the body.
Social Science studies the shared ideas of social groups and how people identify as part of a group.
Maori get to define what "Maori" is not some racist Pakeha prick like you using racist Pakeha ideas about 'race'. To be Maori a person must have at least one Maori ancestor, as i said, and identify as being Maori. That is the way it has always been.
Henare does not specify any particular amount of 'blood quantum' and i assume this is just a clumsy way of saying some genetic heritage. Henare would be out on a limb with his other comments about level of involvement, i would think. Jackson said as much.
Again i am not sure if you are being stupid or just the shit stirring prick that you obviously are.
"Maori get to define what "Maori" is".
Fascinating. Does that mean that Bennett is entitled to decide that neither Jackson nor Henare is a Maori? Would that mean that Peeni Henare would be disqualified from being an MP from a Maori electorate seat and that there will be a by-election?
Or can only a Labour MP make such decisions and what you really mean is that some animals are more equal than others, as Orwell would put it?
It is defined in Tikangi. I use "Maori" in a collective sense. You might not know it but we don't say 'Maoris'.
Even I know that.You surely don't imagine that you are a unique source of knowledge about such things do you? So what? It doesn't change the question. Who get to make the call? You surely aren't going to tell me that it must be unanimous are you?
"The call" was made a very long time ago when Maori first started breeding with Europeans.
Well that is certainly a masterpiece of Delphic ambiguity. Given the names Jackson, Peters, and Bennett it is pretty clear that they had ancestors who indulged in the activity. The jury is still out on whether Henare qualifies.
Doesn't answer the question of course.
Completely agree Rosemary
+ 1 yep – willie is a wanker – he needs to decolonise his mind.
It is Peeni Henare who Rosemary is quoting.
Sorry. Both Peeni and Willie need to decolonise their minds – this 'not Māori' enough stuff is colonisation 101.
Exactly.
Sigh.
I know 'all's fair'etc. but even pakeha me sees this kind of shit as being just what The Man ordered.
I am disappointed they both fell into it.
Willie doesn't believe in being PC. Sometimes I don't like his approach, but this morning on Radionz he made his point for not being a slang-free society. A bit of to-and-fro is more honest than rigid people complying with the conventions as well as the laws, and being completely shuttered and negative in their minds as to the humanity of the situation.
any anti PC person is a wanker too imo – willie loves the sound of his own voice is about his depth
Being PC in everything is just so PC marty mars. Good to keep on going round in circles, keeps you in touch with yourself, otherwise one can get lost in the harakeke.
Oh Marty you are also anti PC all the time !!!!!!
never; – rubbish;
So when will we see you as a PC?
Never in my life.
You lost me but it's all okay – I am a full on card carrying believer in political correctness as it is known by its enemies and kindness as it is known by its friends.
Marty Keep it up and you may join the human race eventually.
I can say with surety that the word 'race', in all its lurid connotations, is one of my least favorite words – I might even be so bold as to put it at the top of my disliked words or perhaps the bottom depending upon my fickle mood.
You'll be fine as long as you remember who ever wins the rat race they're still a rat.
Obviously being Maori, as with any ethnicity, involves more than just having a genetic component. My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group.
It is always hard to know if you are as ignorant as you pretend to be.
Being in the kitchen helping with the tremendous hospitality that Maori turn out for their cultural purposes is one of the Maori women's cultural activities, and the men set everything up, dig the hangi and set it up etc.
It's just division of duties for the successful outcome to a function and not to be judged by pakeha women as not coinciding with their efforts to gain mana and standing for women who have had to fight their way up from a lower status than Maori women had.
I think you meant to reply to Rosemary.
I was just tacking myself on to the end with a general comment. It sometimes interferes with the flow of the comments and replies to come in late and add something a bit different solkta.
And agree Sacha. I was stating what I have learned from having been on marae helping and been told and observed what I referred to in my earlier comment.
Not just women who dry dishes on marae these days. It is being used as a metaphor for humbly serving community.
+ 1 yep
Exactly.
Well said greywarshark.
I have been on many marae events and my grandson is of Ngati-porau, of nga whanau me nga hapu o Ngati Porou, so I enjoy Maori serving of food with aroha and hospitality it is very warm.
I speak very little Maori sadly, but my heart is there but the life is to short.
“It is always hard to know ..”
Ignorance is as ignorance does.
solkta "My grandfather was Scottish but there is nothing in the way that i live my life or understand the world around me that is particularly Scottish. I could not claim to belong to this ethnic group."
Can I suggest that you have it quite back-to-front.
It isn't that scots have moved away from scottishness, it is that scottishness has moved forward to new places and cultural activities, thus re-defining that ethnicity.
This idea that ethnicity has strict rules around what you have to do to belong grates like fingernails down a chalkboard. It makes no sense and I reject it. Humanity and its ethnicities have long been in a state of flux and change – immigrating, colonising, going to McDonalds, it never stops moving.
Similarly with maori – it shouldn't be that you have to conduct yourself in certain ways to be that ethnicity, it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity. This is, after all, how that ethnicity and its current cultural activities came into being in the first place…
You have it all backwards imo
it should be that whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori become a part of that ethnicity.
No it should be whatever Maori do as a group. Otherwise you are just talking about 'race'.
I do get your point that culture is not static, but it has to be morphing from one set of parameters to another. Maori culture is obviously different from what it was pre European contact, but it is still distinct from that of other groups.
"No it should be whatever Maori do as a group"
But it is being done as part of that group – that was my point and why I said “whatever activities you conduct in your life as a maori”. Whatever one does with one's life is as part of that group. I don't see how one person's life can be separated out from the group like you suggest.
A little more to add:
The principle I outline above is the exact same principle used by maori for various claims made under te tiriti for matters which maori previously had no knowledge of, let alone activity in. For example, radio waves.
Willie Jackson is being empty-headed with his claims and he should turn his mind to this principle, which he has supported countless times himself in the past. What a nincompoop
He's a great little talker Willie J is.
My understanding of the the claims for the Treaty are that the tikanga is not set in stone; the Treaty is a living thing, changing with times, developments, experiences and perceptions. So the Treaty that was perceived at the time that it was signed, is still the Treaty at a different time but with some different perceptions about it. The main one being that there was an agreement made to preserve and maintain elements of life.
As for being a Maori, my understanding is that it is variable. There may be blood relationships, or it may be acceptance relationships through marriage or even if someone has been accepted as one of the group and become a sister or brother by agreement. This then requires that person to fulfill family duties and responsibilities to that group, hapu or marae, if they want to be fully included. It seems to me that it is a matter of heart, and acceptance, and mutual commitment.
But all Maori aren't equal; different groups have their own ways and perceptions. One tribe may not accept someone from another. And one of my relatives is both Maori and pakeha, pale skinned, from a South Island tribe. Some of them are not fully accepting because of the pale skin. When in Northland around 1950, that tribe's similar attitudes were isolating which led to loneliness.
I am a bit confused I am part Irish/Scottish/Greek/English on my mothers' side of the family, however a family DNA test has come back as mainly Iberian ie Spanish/Portugese and on my fathers side I am mainly Scottish & Maori so what does that make me ?
Sounds like a whole heap of B/S IMHO ?
"so what does that make me ?"
Probably a well balanced decent person.
Going off to a tangent my wife has done my family tree. There is a bit of Scottish, Irish and German in me. I had to have a Cataract operation a few years ago and the surgeon said he was going to fit a Zeiss lens in my eye. I can now say honestly that there is a bit of German in me
Genetics is a bit of a lottery.
Your siblings may have common genetic ancestry, but what you end up with could be completely different from what your brothers and sisters have.
Each individual inherits their own unique mix.
solkta
As an example of how threads can be disrupted and hard to follow when the reply doesn't state the original commenter, you at 8.51 am saying about being ignorant comes below mine at 10.15 am so you were not referring to me.
It seems it was referring to either Dennis F or Rosemary M further up at 3.1…
The indent shows plus it says in the "Comments" list which is surely where most start from.
Jackson explains what he meant here:
https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018693391
The non apology – it's attitudes like jackson expresses, those distorted views, that directly contribute to the appalling statistics young Māori are over represented in – disgraceful.
"Interesting road opening up here"
There is nothing remotely interesting or useful about dinosaur racism. Keep it to yourself.
People who think racism ought not to feature in public discussion are rare nowadays. You part of a dying breed??
Anyone who uses the words 'blood' or 'quantum' is not adding anything useful. Back under that rock with you.
Look, if you want to criticise a Labour MP then do so directly, like Marty. Being so oblique just makes you seem dishonest. And since when have you ever tried to add anything useful to this site?? All you seem capable of is random misunderstandings of the discourse.
You have taken Henare's stupidity and run with it. Above you have said things like:
"your comment excludes the biological part of Maori identity. That seems wrong."
and
"Ought there to be a public record of their exact percentage for funding purposes, perhaps part of the census?"
which is inexcusably ignorant in this day and age. Life is too short to put up with fools polluting the public pool. Such nonsense would be warmly welcomed at Kiwibog.
So explain why you disagree with the Labour minister's reference to the biological part of Maori identity, and why you disagree with applying a metric to that. And why you lack a sense of humour. 🙄
Dennis F
You are so sure of yourself. You might remember the quote about who are fools and who are wise. When you start talking about Maori proving that biologically you are going back over arguments made decades ago, even a century.
If you know so little about Maori matters better you stay out of giving your opinions – you haven't got up to first base and need to go away, read up and learn. Everybody needs to do some homework for themselves so they can discuss from the point of view of some appropriate authority.
So does that mean you didn't notice that the Labour minister referred to "blood quantum"?? Or do you think blood is not biological??
Did you also not notice that I mostly asked questions? Which of my opinions are you actually referring to? Did you notice that respondents failed to address what he actually said? Do you think such evasion of political comments is what this website ought to feature, and if so, why?
If you get my drift, it ain't about me at all, no matter how hard some respondents are trying to spin it. It's about the news!
It is a good thing for a pakeha to sit back and let Maori sort matters out between themselves. Feelings and tikanga, expectations and resentments may have to be worked through and require a truce between them to their mutual resignation.
That is for them to work out. You can't cut perceptions into thin slices and put them under a microscope. Until you are required to make a decision because you are in a position requiring decisions or legality, then it would be discerning of you to remain politely in the background.
If as a pakeha, you have seen the strong feelings that can arise after the death of a parent between the various siblings, you might have an idea of the emotional aspect to be worked out in relationships.
Who is the she who was trying to boss you?
Sacha @ 3.4 & 3.4.1.1 and she seems to be coming from a pc position, which I'm allergic to. I get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, to me it looks and smells like censorship.
So my stance is that I have as much right to comment on cultural & political matters in Aotearoa as anyone else. To the extent that Maori stuff affect us, I comment on that. If it doesn't affect the pakeha world, I don't. This item does.
The reason is that a new bit of political culture was invented by the three Maori MPs involved. You will see that I introduced the topic with a question that goes straight to the heart of it. The significant point is that nobody has answered the question!! I've seen that pattern since I was a child in the 1950s. Adults would freak out when I asked a simple question or made a simple comment. They would literally freeze, with a look of fear in their eyes. Somehow, I was born with an uncanny knack of uttering the unspeakable.
Nowadays they call it speaking truth to power. When the power lies in social convention, speaking truth shatters it, enabling progress. Those in denial of Maori racism voiced against Maori will studiously continue to evade what has actually happened. It's part of the traditional leftist preference for delusion over reality.
Dennis,
Bossy bossy you.
Huh?? Felt like she was trying to boss me, actually. Can't you recognise push-back when you see it?
Dennis you are very prominent on blogs and that shows you are very opinionated, and 'that is trying to boss' by sheer inference.
Oh, I see. Could say the same for you, eh? Takes one to know one!
Every so often I get just a wee whiff of eau de fascist off ol' franko.
And yet I've often mentioned here that my political praxis has been anti-fascist since 1970. Funny, eh? 😎
Yes it is funny that you are such a fucktard that you don't understand your own ideas.
Leftists thinking centrists are rightists is way funnier. No wonder they struggle to figure out which way is up. Reality is so hard for such dimwits to grasp, as you keep on demonstrating…
You don't seem to even know what you think you are let alone what you actually are. Yesterday you were claiming to be Green, but while the Green Party dose not generally identify as being Left it very certainly does not identify as being Centrist.
You can imagine how the other Greens felt with a shithead like that in the nest. Fly away, grey cuckoo.
I've told the history of that here several times over the past few years. The Values Party schism in the mid-seventies was caused by the leftists and centrists being unable to do consensus.
I was too radical that decade to join either group. I persuaded the Greens to go left in '91 when Jeanette Fitzsimons led a session on the question at our conference. My reasoning was that the Bolger govt had already captured several leading environmentalists, so we had to form a viable alternative. Nobody wanted Labour (due to Rogernomics).
There's always been many in the Green Party who prefer non-alignment, but the conference decision was pre-MMP and we had a binary choice only. Russel Norman's straw poll at the 2015 conference (65 in the session) showed the leftists were half the number who put their hands up for the traditional Green position (neither left nor right). I saw that happen.
The problem with people like you & Sacha is the perennial one of always operating from the position of ignorance, while pretending to know stuff. Sad the way the leftist belief system makes many adherents delusional.
and yet it is
@sacha
He likes to pretend that he has some significant history with the Greens but from what he has said on here it seems that had some involvement in the very early years but then left as he was not a good fit at all. The crap that he has talked today about 'race' would have gone down like a lead balloon both then and now, as would most of his ramblings.
@pat
Is your reply to me?
Yet they are Left or Centrist??
yet they are centrist…as are their voter base…a more middle class party would be hard to find…their one saving grace is in danger of disappearing altogether.
@Pat
The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's. Winston is Centrist and he is currently fucking up most Green policy objectives.
Centrist does not mean "middle class" and Left does not mean exclusively working class. Karl Marx was very middle class for fucks sake.
The Greens come to the same place as the Left on social policy, they just get their by a different route.
"The Greens cannot be Centrist as their policies are more Left than Labour's."
Are they?..and even if they are Labour are hardly 'left' as they subscribe to neoliberalism…as stated the Greens are , and are supported by the middle class as their voter demographic displays…but you keep telling yourself otherwise, it may come true one day
To explain it another way, when Greens say they are not Left or Right they mean that they don't really fit on that spectrum. Centrism fits on that spectrum, right in the middle of it.
@Pat
The Greens have had a policy for Capital Gains Tax longer than Labour and still do. The Greens are responsible through their agreement for the welfare changes announced today. I can't be fucked giving you more examples but there are many. You can go to the relevant websites and compare.
Yes Labour are not as left as they once were, the Greens are further left, if measured on that spectrum, like i said. Left and Right are only relevant to the context so in NZ Parliamentary Politics today Labour are still left of centre.
And also like i said Centrist does not mean middle class. Have you not heard of Karl Marx? There are huge numbers of lefty middle class people. There is also a significant number of working class people who vote National.
Karl Marx?…wasnt he the brother that couldnt act?
"He likes to pretend"
Yep, a whole lot of figjam pretension.
I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change…if they fuck this opportunity up they will never see my vote again….the question you have to ask yourself is how typical am i?
@Pat
It will be Winston who fucks the Climate Act if anybody. The Greens could bring the gummint down over it, but that would lead to a hugely messy election and probably a Nact led gummint.
No you are not typical of a Green voter. There is about 6% of the vote that is core Green. After that they mostly take votes from Labour. When labour could not find an effective leader people walked to the Greens, and then back again when they finally did.
lf i have voted Green the previous 3 elections im part of that core vote…you cannot know how typical my attitude is…and nor can the party…time will tell.
@Pat
When i say 6% are "core Green voters" i mean voters who support the Green Kaupapa. By saying I have ignored much of the Greens nonsense and voted for them the past 3 elections for one reason only, climate change you are making it very clear that you are not a core Green voter.
I have voted for them in every election where they have been an option as i have always supported most of their policies.
oh dear you are truly delusional…the Greens received approx 6.3% of the vote last election , or 162000 party votes….whats membership?..id suggest significantly less. probably around 10% of that figure….thats your Green Kuapapa, not the votes.
@Pat
Had you considered that you might be part of the 0.3%.
The Greens peaked at i think 12.6% in the polls and that was directly after Metiria's speech. They picked up some lefty vote on the back of that. Then Metiria lost control of the narrative and Ardern became Labour leader and went hard on Climate Change, Fresh Water and Child Poverty. 4-5% (percentage points) went back to Labour and 1-2% of swing voters got the frights. The Greens dropped back to mostly their core vote.
If you think you can sort Climate Change without caring about people then best you buy a gun. You will need it. France has started down that road.
Don't gnosis all that funny franko.
Don't know about 'facist', but this lefty’s noticed franco’s rather fond of labels.
Dennis
Ask Willie Jackson; he's is the self appointed expert in determining who is or is not Maori.
Furthermore you could ask him what methodology he uses to make such a determination.
Is Hone Harawira Maori?
|Is Willie Jackson Maori?
Of course they are, 100 percent of the time.
In my opinion Paula Bennet is Maori when it suits her, and not when it doesn't.
That is, she plays on her heritage when there is a political advantage to be made from it. But mostly ignores it.
Paula Bennet raises the objection that being Maori is not defined by being able to speak Maori.
And she is right.
And I know that for many with all the will in the world, it can prove to hard to pick up the reo, especially if you have been raised exclusively in the Pakeha tradition.
Bennet has a point there.
But for anyone who ever wanted to get in touch with their Maori Heritage, surely Paula Bennet has had more than enough opportunity to learn Te Reo, that is, if she wanted to.
I mean, despite being in a relatively well paid job, (opposition MP), with relatively little to do and able to set her own agenda. And presumably, with the pick of professional support, able and willing to walk her through it. (If she chose to avail herself of it) has she ever tried to learn the language?
Has she ever taken the time, has she even ever made the effort?
I think if she did, it would be the making of her.
"Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has been called upon to lead the war against killer robots." What, harangue them to death??
"Mary Wareham, advocacy director of the Arms Division of Human Rights Watch, is leading the global campaign to ban fully autonomous weapons… Wareham said New Zealand is the only country in the world to have a Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control, referring to Peters. Asked if the world needs Peters to lead the war on killer robots, Wareham responded: "Certainly. I think he would be an excellent leader.""
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/winston-peters-called-upon-to-lead-war-against-killer-robots.html
Well, okay, Aotearoa leading the way is excellent, but Winston probably ought to delegate the task to Arnie – who knows the scene inside-out. He said he'd be back, eh? Now's the time!
Wtf? Haven't they seen those Terminator movies? A war against killer robots is a terrible idea! Humans are squishy and easily disabled, no match for robots at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to just not build the killer robots in the first place?
"The Justice Select Committee is currently considering a bill to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which would review convictions and sentences and decide whether to refer them to the appeal court. Currently, if someone believes they have suffered a miscarriage of justice they can apply to the Governor-General, who seeks advice from the Minister of Justice, for exercise of the Royal prerogative of mercy that can be used to grant a free pardon or to refer a conviction or sentence back to an appeal court."
So a less-paternalistic option. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112421737/mps-urged-to-not-appoint-judges-to-commission-for-miscarriages-of-justice
"Nigel Hampton QC, forensic science consultant Dr Anna Sandiford and investigator Glynn Rigby, submitted for the New Zealand Public Interest Project. They endorsed the idea of a Commission, but urged caution with appointing judges and suggested adding a provision to allow an appeal after death. In their experience miscarriages of justice usually revolved around poor or inadequate investigation, forensic science, legal defence and sometimes overzealous prosecutors."
I'm pleased to see this group lobbying for a body more representative of the public. The legal establishment has often victimised people in the past. I first suggested a public accountability mechanism in 1991 when I wrote the second draft of the Greens justice policy, as convenor of their justice policy working group. Andrew Little's proposal is a weaker alternative, but it will improve the current system. Keeping the judges out of the review group would serve the public interest, but allowing one or two to participate as advisors could also work well.
A USA Judge who did much to limit miscarriages of justice and undertook legislation that advanced the rights of the poor, black community, has just died. I hadn't heard of this great man so I am passing on his obituary so those who care for what he did can honour Judge Damon Keith's achievements and we can seek to emulate them.
https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/04/28/detroit-judge-damon-keith-who-coined-democracy-dies-in-the-dark-dead-at-96
OMG plant based beef has arrived!
Gluten, soy and GMO, and most importantly meat free burgers are on sale from 7 May at BF 🙂 I can't wait to try it out. Don't think I'll be able to totally eliminate meat (on a keto diet) but every bit counts.
Now if only we could get rid of packaging.
There's no need for meat-free burgers in NZ. Much of our livestock is grass-fed on land that wouldn't be suitable for growing crops anyway. Or should be…
Business news on Radionz this morning. Investors very interested in new food non-meat business.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48110704
Is plant burger firm Beyond Meat really worth $1.5bn? The US firm, which counts actor and environmentalist Leonardo DiCaprio among its investors, will now offer its shares at between $23 and $25.
The decision to increase the price from the original range of $19 and $21 indicates strong demand for the shares.
But Beyond Meat is loss-making and does not know when it will report a profit.For its most recent financial results for 2018, Beyond Meat said losses hit $29.9m, slightly below the previous year but above a $25.1m loss in 2016…
Beyond Meat is one of a number of so-called "unicorn" companies – which are privately-backed firms worth $1bn or more – to sell their shares to public investors this year.
yes A
And get the BF foods sent by train not by ‘dirty carbon emissions trucks’ please.
While we discuss politics and racism there is 'humanism' to argue for – us against technology and its weaponisation and the increasing trend of technology to destroy our lives, gradually or suddenly.
Dennis F at 4 also refers to this.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/388334/mps-urged-to-take-strong-stance-on-killer-robots
And also the denial of rights and robbing of land and livelihood from people inconveniently positioned on land with uses for other people. 19th century the Highland Clearances in Scotland – large scale sheep farming over-turning the people’s smallholding-croft system.
Today one example is Western Papua bandied around to major powers, with Indonesia hosting and a USA? firm mining copper on West Papuan land with reprisals against protest that have resulted in deaths. A seeker of info trying to find truth jailed.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/388357/indonesia-jails-polish-tourist-who-met-with-papuan-rebels
The empire does this to their own, what do you think your worth…
I cant reply
@ pshyco milt
Better enjoy it while it lasts . They are rapidly planting the hills killing off our way of life and you grass fed beef
I just watche a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
True ? Or bs ?
Keep it simple please
I read that termites produce more methane than the worlds cow herd combined.
I will do my bit for climate change by eating beef, but those bugs, you're all on your own.
A quick google suggests termites worldwide produce around 20 million tonnes of methane per year, around half of which is oxidised before it even leaves the mound.
Whereas cows belch around 150 million tons per year of methane, all of which goes straight into the atmosphere.
So cows are responsible for around 15x more methane than termites.
I'll have to search for the article I read when I'm home from work, as obviously, I wouldn't have mentioned it if I hadn't read it.
I can't find the piece I read the other day, which would have been mainstream and not dubious, but I had a google, too.
I found a few things that were roughly stating the same thing, though some looked dodgy, the like 12 posts to back their questionable science, so I won't advocate for them here.
I'm happy to be corrected by proper scientists and science, so if their consensus is termites aren't heavier methane producers than cows, so be it.
A few sites put the emissions of termites way above the 20 million tonnes figure, but note the mounds and underground networks act as filters.
Either way, I'll still eat meat, but not bug meat.
Yes, eating insects or larvae is all well and good, but it's not for me.
edit: unless they’re processed AF and look/taste/feel like fillet steak.
Yeah, nah, I'd rather eat that fake crap in the supermarket which costs twice as much as cow mince but with only half the flavour… Or look at rabbit, dog and cat as a cheaper, tasty alternative.
One thing that revolted me about soylent green was that they took actual meat and made it taste like tofu and lentils.
Oh, and the cannibalism, of course…
I guess even the veggos need help to eat all their greens.
The pigs are still gonna be in trouble though. I'm only gonna give up bacon when they pry it out of my cold dead jaws.
Cats- nah. Turning sunshine into protein in plants is horribly inefficient. Taking another step and running that plant material through an animal to make meat protein just compounds the inefficiency. Taking yet another step and running animal protein through an obligate carnivore to produce slightly different animal protein compounds the inefficiency yet again.
But there are so many of them in the hood, free range meat and all that.
The birds would thank you.
Agree about bacon, but I don’t eat it myself any more – Been called a pig so many times it’s like cannibalism.
Yeah, I can't quite get up any enthusiasm for eating invertebrates either.
While I eat very little meat, I really can't be arsed with the effort and planning needed to get the full complement of nutrients needed from a fully vege diet. But I'll be quite happy to eat vat-grown animal cells processed into burgers and sausages and mince.
I can't quite get up any enthusiasm for eating invertebrates either.
I had a really yummy prawn curry last night. Does that count?
Ewww. Prawns inhabit the same ecological niche in the sea that cockroaches do on land. Or is that lobsters? I forget. Not doing filter-feeders either.
Hmm. the prawn thing is bringing me around to the idea. "Cockroaches: prawns of the basement". "Land prawns", maybe?
They did it with canola oil.
All the slum lords would be kicking their tenants out to maximise the six legged growth in their investments.
Or listing them on the flats chattels list…
Actually, fair point. If cockroaches had a prawn texture, I might try them as long as they were peeled, de-legged and decapitated.
But locusts deep fried onna stick would be a bit of a stretch
In this curry they just had the tails still on. It is a little off-putting when they still have a face.
Thinking about it (close to dinner time, after all), I've squished many a land bug, and none of them looked like raw prawns on the inside. Unless the goey innards turn solid when cooked, like an egg does?
@Andre – See above lol
Allien how can eating meat be good for climate change?
That just encourages raising more Cattle doesn't it?
Im happy to take a steak or burger for the team to get rid of all those cows, but veggies and veganauts, you animal lovers, if you plan to get rid of all the cows, are you happy to pull the trigger? And if you're not hypocritical about it, ignoring the obvious cognitive dissonance, why can't I eat what you slaughter?
I think Al0on was being faecetious cleany.
Currently the methane concentration in the atmosphere is around 1900 ppb. Prior to the early 1800s it was very steady at around 700 ppb. The extra methane is responsible for somewhere around 1/4 to 1/3 the global temperature rise since the 1800s, and it's all due to human activities of various kinds, including vastly increasing the global numbers of ruminant livestock.
Yes, it's true that methane oxidises to CO2 and water in the atmosphere, with a half life of around 8 to 12 years. (Half life means every molecule emitted has a 50/50 chance of surviving one half life,and a 1:4 chance of surviving two half lives, 1:8 chance of surviving 3 etc). But while that molecule of CO2 exists in the atmosphere, it is over 100 times more effective at trapping heat then the CO2 molecule it will oxidise into.
The relatively rapid decay of methane means there's a fairly good "bucket with a hole in it" analogy for thinking about methane concentration. Imagine a bucket with a hole in it, and a tap filling it with water. The water flowing in represents the methane we're dumping into the atmosphere, the height of the water in the bucket represents methane concentration in the atmosphere, and the water flowing out represents methane getting oxidised to CO2 and water in the atmosphere. The flow of water out of the hole is a bit responsive to the water level, it flows a bit faster with a high water level, a bit slower with a low water level.
Things were fairly well in balance up to around the 1800s at a fairly low tap flow, and a fairly low level in the bucket, and a low outflow. But when we turned the tap up by finding and burning fossil fuels and increasing agriculture all across the world, the water level rose dramatically. A big part of that turning the tap up was hugely increasing numbers of ruminant livestock. Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
What is it with you that every topic needs to somehow get turned to trains? Was your childhood spent desperately wanting a train set to play with and you never got one for Christmas?
Some 'love' trains, others prefer critiquing those with a bee in their bonnet.
Takes all kinds…
No Cleangreen wanting trains is because of a large part of adulthood petitioning the government to grow some brains, and do the transport thing in a way that is sustainable and provides amenities that Vogel realised in early colonial times..
If you took any real interest in what people on this blog are really on about apart from just a way to keep you from ennui you would know this. I think you come from the USA and no doubt things are different there.
You don't get anything done in NZ unless you are prepared to keep on about it for a couple of decades. If you ever want anything done that is good for the country Andre, don't ever think that you will get it for Christmas because Santa will see how good and right you are. Down here in the Southern Hemisphere you have to make sure that you keep asking because your notes to Santa often get mislaid.
Wags asked about methane cycling in and out of the atmosphere and cows as a part of that cycle. Termites and methane is clearly a closely related topic. So WTF is the story with hijacking the thread to go completely off-topic to trains? It makes trying to follow the original topic and related topics very disjointed.
Especially when it's so easy to just start a new separate thread about trains. Nobody is going to object to that. But thread hijacking is a really good way to get people's backs up.
You said Andre: Now, if we choose to turn down the tap a bit, by decreasing ruminant numbers and/or finding ways to reduce methane emissions from ruminants, then the level of water in the bucket/methane in the atmosphere goes down, and the extra global heating reduces.
That caught Cleangreens attention because he always reads your good comments, and then he thought of other ways to help the CC count of whatever go down plus the extra global heating reducing, and then he put in the bit about how using trains would be beneficial for that. So all quite easy to follow when you see the activist mind at work.
Trains to Gisborne and the usefulness they will have towards saving fuel and carbon credits and so on are top of the bill for Cleangreen and rightly so being more important than lots of things we discuss.
And because we have to say everything to NZ politicians and planners a thousand times before they ever hear of the idea, Cleangreen is just bringing the count up.
Because trucks are driving past his house and stirring up dust. If I remember correctly a quarry opened up down the road from where he lives.
Being an older retired gentleman this is no doubt driving him nuts which are leading to the never-ending pro trains anti-truck ranting.
What is it about trains vs trucks?
In no particular order: energy efficiency for moving goods up and down this skinny country
less diesel pollution from the electrified part of the rail network,
no rubber compound pollution from trains,
the trucking industry subsidised by the rest of us to pay for the damage the trucks do to roads,
trucking industry being poorly paid, hardly unionized and often exploitative of its workers,
the damage done to other motorists when colliding with a truck.
I am sure there are a few more.
Nothing to do with wanting a train set.
Those are all good arguments to use in a thread about transport modes. But what is their relevance in a thread about methane cycles and cows?
"Another visit from the thread purity police, lol." – yes, it's a thing.
Events seem to conspire to derail my life – why should a blog thread (on Open Mike) be any different?
Someone else will have commented (over the years), but why is it "Open Mike" (< 2 million Google matches) rather than "Open Mic" (> 17 million Google matches)? English/US difference?
[Agree that ‘thread derailing’ is poor etiquette, so apologies for derailing the derail, just for a bit of fun.]
The thread's all over the place now, nobody's gonna give a shit anymore.
Had just finished work and had a cantankerous manager have a crack.
I picked up a touch of snark in yr comment and that was what I was responding to.
To draw a long bow, those cows are generally about 'coz A, the are dairy and their milk leaves by truck or B, they are beef cattle and their protein leaves by truck.
You can't have your methaney livestock in isolation.
Gee, can't we just go back to the good'ol days and just walk those cows to the nearest train?
sounds like a win win to me.
Good info but you didnt answer the question .
Remember, the (primary) problem is heat absorption. Because methane is 20 times more greenhousey than CO2 that part of the cycle increases global warming.
But also, some fertiliser comes from fossil sources, so reintroduces more carbon compounds into the atmosphere in addition to the cycle.
And lastly, there's the "what was the land used for previously" question: burning the rain forest to make a cattle farm releases most of the carbon that was sunk into tree mass.
So the idea of "continuous cycle" is true to a point, but contributions to GW are often not as simple as that concept would suggest.
It's a factoid that's been taken out of its relevant context and used to hokey up some special pleading for some that don't want to take responsibility and make changes.
As a standalone assertion, that methane rapidly oxidises to CO2, and that plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere to be eaten by cows that then belch methane back into the atmosphere in a continuous cycle, is correct. And it is also correct that if numbers of cows do not change (and other methane emissions do not change) then methane levels in the atmosphere won't change.
But the context needed to understand the significance of that cycle is very important. First, methane levels now are nearly triple what they were throughout all previous human history, and the methane levels we have now are incompatible with maintaining a livable climate.
The massive increase in ruminant livestock numbers we now have over what was present through all previous human history is a significant contributor to the extremely high methane levels we now have. Reducing ruminant livestock numbers is one of the easiest steps we could take to reduce methane levels.
A quick Google revealed a recent (2019) paper (in a well-respected scientific journal) that suggests scientists still don't know enough to accurately predict trends in atmospheric methane concentrations.
Thank you .
Its important that facts are known and reported as such .
I run into ranting cockies alot and i want to be on solid ground if im going counter their shit .
Numbers i believe have peaked and will head down from here .
I'm guessing you saw the same video I saw, have a read of this comment
Fuck this new editor sucks donkey dick, it seems to want to truncate the URL, hopeless.
I'll repost the comment
I put up a video about cows, methane and surprise, got accused of being a denialist
I realize this is a touchy subject, but people probably misunderstood where I was coming from, I’m not a scientist or have vast in-depth knowledge of climate change.
I posted a video which I thought was interesting as it was saying something completely different from what I’ve seen in the media and thought I’d put it up here and get feedback.
Asking questions doesn’t make one a denialist.
Now about methane
Methane concentrations have increased from around 775 parts per billion in pre-industrial times to around 1800 now, due entirely to human activities
In the video methane and ruminants(cows) was shown to be a natural cycle where methane was endlessly recycled and nothing changed and everything was kept in balance, obviously if more cattle are added then the amount of methane would increase.
So I went and had a look to see if cow/beef numbers have increased massively in the past 50 years and surprisingly they’ve been rather static.
That also got me thinking pre-industrial there must have been a shit tonne of natural ruminants like Bison, Deer etc. and before them big animals like mammoths which would have been belching out methane by the tonne as well as many wetlands which have been destroyed due to farming
I then came across this article which I found interesting.
https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/la-chefs-editorial-methane-and-global-warming/
The question the author was trying to answer was why methane levels didn’t start to rise until the industrial age.
According to the author
One reason methane levels remained flat was that cattle and other ruminants (wild and domesticated) lived in intact grassland ecosystems and helped build healthy soils that contain soil microbes called methanotrophs that reduce atmospheric methane (2). Thus maintained grassland ecosystems function as methane sinks, and bank as much as 15% of the earth’s methane (3) Tillage for crops reduces the soil’s capacity to bank methane (as does exposed uncovered soil) plus also releases carbon into the atmosphere (4). Use of synthetic fertilizers also adversely impacts soil methanotrophs (5). Glyphosate in no tilled systems according to industry funded research doesn’t impact soil microbial activity. Though research by other researchers contradicts this industry perspective and details how herbicides like glyphosate adversely change the makeup of soil microbes (6).
If that is the case because all our dairy and beef is grass fed we do not actually have that much of an impact on global methane levels? should we even be paying carbon taxes?
Or if we do shouldn’t it be more vegetable growers and not so much farmers?
The author points the finger more at natural gas and writes.
Meanwhile the methane from fracking and natural gas extraction, transportation and refining, in general, apparently has been underestimated significantly maybe by 5 times or 500% per some recent studies on this topic (9). Not to mention China is massively increasing their use of natural gas and fracking. Coincidentally, the largest increases in methane levels occurred in the 1960’s when natural gas use increased significantly- nearly ten-fold.
Oh god we have seen that shit on here before. I'm sure it was you who posted it too. It is Friday night, give us a break for fucks sake.
Robin Grieve, Act candidate for Whangarei. Act, the only party that has ever argued that buffer zones between GE and organic farms were viable. My suggestion was napalm every 30 seconds.
Yeah Bison and Deer all over Aotearoa. We have had that discussion before also. Mindless stuff.
FYI bwaghorn’s question waas:
<i>I just watched a vid saying that all methane once its broken down into co2 created from cattle is used to regrow the pasture the cattle grew on . A continuous cyclel that adds nothing new to the atmosphere as long as cattlenumbers dont rise. .
True ? Or bs ? Keep it simple please </i>
the problem is that there are multiple sources of methane other than ruminants…a major contributor is the gas industry…which is unrelated to the flow argument and growing
It's never simple bwaghorn – about natural processes.
What do you mean they are rapidly planting the hills killing off our way of life. Do you mean that hillside pastures are being taken up by tree plantations? Pinus radiata?
I understand that the idea of planting widely allowing grazing between once the trees have got established is probably the way to go. But don't know for sure, and if so what species? Is it possible for us to not have pinus but another one kinder to the soil.
Perhaps they should be planting big bamboos – not keeping on the old mousewheel of pinus radiata because – fast and it's what we know. Couldn't there be some R&D money to help with trials for diversification that would be studied and published benefitting all with the information.
This was put to bed with a lot of trials by the old Forest Service in the 70's.
Result – crap trees due to the wide spacing leading to too much branch / canopy and crap pasture due to the shading and water draw by the trees. I think most of the trials were abandoned after less than 15 years, at least the one I had a little to do with at Tikitere was.
That is interesting. So can't put trees in for plantation purposes wide spread. What if the trees were like tagstase? and the animals could both graze grass and the tree, and get shade, and the farmer have some advantage from carbon credits from the tree left in situ? Shade is going to be something that cannot be ignored with the advent of CC becoming hot as hell out there, which would be a variable not high at the time of the trials you referred to.
What do you say about the scenario I put together for possible adoption in the coming years. I guess the old Forest Service in the 70's was still steeped in p.radiata, so different tree – different result perhaps. And edible. And maybe more opportunity for understorey growth with other tree types as I think pinus kills and dries off undergrowth.
Tagasaste would last 5 seconds around cows.
Heard of an area that has lost 100 000 stock units to trees lately . At roughly 1 job per 5000 stock units thats a massive whole in the community. Less kids in schools less partners doing other work . Etc .
That's a giant change of finances. Not much coming in for 20-30 years so who would be parking so much finance in the trees for that long, and they might burn down. Would they get insurance in the first place?
Even when foreign money or aggregation of farms happens, there are managers and workers required. Going into trees like that will certainly take people out of the area.
British local body election results are coming through: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-48131095
Professor Sir John Curtice, "polling expert": "There have been some remarkably good figures for the Greens so far, who on average are running at 12% of the vote in the wards that they are fighting, up 5 points on their performance in last year's local elections."
Update from Curtice: "Note that in contrast to the position for Labour, compared with 2015 the Conservative vote is down much more heavily in the south of England (by 8 points) as compared with the north of England (by 2 points). If this pattern continues then Tory losses in the south of England tomorrow could still prove to be quite substantial."
Labour are tanking at the moment, with 2 councils lost and -50 councillors.
They may yet, even though polling at around 30%, win a general election, though it'll be more down to Farrage and his brexit it party bleeding support from the Tories at about 18% nationally.
The lib dems are the nights winners, so far, which may also impede on labour in those 3 way seats they need to win to take a majority at parliament.
“Labour are tanking at the moment…”
Thanks for that BBC link, Dennis.
As of 6 pm (NZ time): So far the Tories have lost 16 councils and Labour three.
Welfare working group report just released. Perfectly reasonable recommendations but given this report only exists as part of the confidence & supply agreement with the Greens and would never have happened otherwise, it's safe to say the vast majority of it will be watered down, delayed or totally ignored, especially the raising of the core benefit rates.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/388392/recommendations-on-welfare-system-reform-released
Kat
Keep questioning I think and they won't be able to get away with a watered down version. It sounds so promising that i feel tremendously hopeful. If there is a spark of old Labour to be dug around and watered, it might send up shoots and flower. A thing of beauty and a joy forever.
Beneficiaries who work will be able to earn more before their pay is docked, and the sanction against solo mothers who don't name the father of their children will be scrapped, as the government begins its overhaul of the welfare system.
If bennies can earn much more, then they can get themselves onto the work train when possible. If they can get child sitting during school holidays then they can work that into an earning scheme that will provide those needed shoes, the sports gear, the inclusion of their kids in events at school.
And not naming the father gives them the option of not including a ne'er-do-well into the family life the mother is trying to build. He may know himself but won't have the department after him for money and it is better if the aim is to help the mother to become self-sustaining which is a good role model for the youngsters. Not having a druggie, alcoholic or play-acting father around, will make for stability and will be likely to cut into the stats for domestic violence. There is choice involved as to whether to have occasional visits or not if the father is a degenerate or just unreliable. It is a blow to a child if a visit is set up and the child is ready and waiting, and the father doesn't turn up, or is drunk and disorderly, or is subtly demeaning of the mother’s efforts so the child is left idolising the idea of him as generous, and the mother as being unworthy, and not to be fully loved which would cut into the mutual support that builds good family ties and relationships.
National bereft of effective positive ideas as usual with their usual expressions of negativity. Louise Upston with this one:
"National disagrees with the bulk of the report, which would see fewer obligations imposed on beneficiaries and fewer incentives to get back into work.
They still haven't caught up with womens lib yet. To them it was university women's lib, so they could grab the well-paying jobs when available that came with perks like maternity leave. Ordinary women were neither to share this bounty, or receive the respect due to mothers and partners trying to bring up healthy children, with values of honesty and kindness, with hope for a skilled job at a decent wage. 'Dragging up your kids' is the disparaging view of better-off National looking at lower income people's efforts, and they fund to match and perpetuate that malign view.
@Grey- my view of welfare does tend to be through the illness/disability lens, ie the one that rarely gets mentioned. Incentives to work mean absolutely nothing to a lot of us, but being able to pay for medical treatment without starving, does. That's not to say I'm not interested in what else is happening in general, but we don't tend to rate much of a mention. Besides, it's hard for the bashers to have a direct attack at us so no air time in the media either. I wish I could join you in feeling hopeful. But history dictates that, even if a few positive changes occur over the next few years, as soon as the government changes again- and being NZ it inevitably will- the first thing the Nats will do is attack welfare.
Something slightly amusing though- I noticed Stuff had opened their comments section for this story, so I posted a comment reminding them about their new policy of not opening stories about beneficiaries for comments, and was the temptation to let back in the bashers too much for them? Funnily enough the comments are now closed 🙂
Kay
After reading your and Rosemarys comments i realise that I don't know much about the disability allowance. The welfare net has been set far too high for anyone to be able to fall into it for years. The stupid way that supplements etc were set up should have been adjusted for inflation at the beginning and often were not.
Anyway here is a cute little UK ad from the past about finding work that the increased front line staff might copy.
Jobs for women.
We might get something in the Budget but Ms Sepuloni doesn't sound promising. 'Staged implementation' makes me think of a performance of Shakespeares 'All's Well that Ends Well' .
Maybe Robbo will find it in his heart to throw more money at suffering property developers.
Announcement made…https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112435767/government-to-scrap-benefit-sanction-for-solo-mums-employ-263-frontline-staff-to-help-beneficiaries-find-work
Some improvement…getting rid of the sanction for solo mums who don't name the father and increase the amount earned before abatement but….sweet fa for anyone else.
However, Sepuloni said the Government had decided against a recommended move to increase benefit levels by up to 47 per cent immediately so Kiwis could "live in dignity", and was instead "looking at a staged implementation" of change.
It would also allocate $76.3 million for 263 new frontline staff with the sole "focus of helping more people into meaningful and sustainable work".
So, it looks like more of the arbeit mach frei that the Nats were so fond of.
When I saw the headline you linked to Kay I thought of you. I've said this before, but when Peter graduated from the Supported Living Payment to the Super we were actually able to save a few dollars while living almost full time in our Bus and largely free camping.
That is how much difference there is between the SLP and Super.
Maybe they're saving something for those on SLP as a Budget day headline?
@Rosemary, I'd like to think so but it seems pretty clear they're not going to increase any of the core benefits. The one thing they could do (and it wouldn't upset most of the voters either) is getting rid of that pathetic cap on the disability allowance, $62/week or whatever it is now. It hasn't been lifted for years. That would help a lot without having to roll things over onto TAS etc, minimise paperwork.
My rent is now $30/week more than my core benefit so I'm existing entirely off the supplements which I'm maxed out on, and I doubt I'm alone…
The list of recommendations….
Key recommendations of the welfare expert advisory group:
Seems the government has largely ignored pretty much all of the suggestions.
Mostly interested in happy- clappy headline grabbers.
SSDD
A good Friday afternoon dump – to be expected from this lot, no matter what the party colour.
It will be like a Royal Wedding.
Congratulations to Jacinda Ardern and Clarke Gayford.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/112442442/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-and-clarke-gayford-engaged
Sweet merciful god.
You sound very religious Gabby. I guess we will all give thanks and prayers for their happy future together, both trying to multi-task, in a balanced modern relationship.
Hopefully next year about 6 months from the election.
And in the next term, another baby please.
We're good for 50% plus and governing with either Greens or NZF on that.
Nice white flowing gown with veil please. Maybe borrow Princess Di's dress.
Awesome…hope they do it MAF stylze!
For a third term, third child.
So much better than any substantial policy at all.
Winston might veto a third child.
Why? He’ll get to be acting PM again. Don’t they have to make the job permanent of three fixed-term contracts?
Do you mean so he can get his parliamentary super? I think Winston is so super that has been allocated long ago. And I think he deserves it as he has kept on making politics look vital and meaningful, at least some;times.
I was referring to employment law. For example:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/employment/news/article.cfm?c_id=11&objectid=10502361
It was tongue-in-cheek 😉
I hope someone's printing commemorative mugs and tea towels.
I hope you're joking.
It's going to happen.
Dollar for dollar Labour donations so he can afford a 2 carat e grade vvs1 rock.
It's all about the rock now people.
God almighty it just may be so.
I may have to go somewhere else for a while.
A tune for a Friday, methinks…
Ad the ring has been photographed and looks a simple tasteful affair. Why so sour?
Congrats to them, that's fantastic news.
Yes congrats to Clark and Jacinda. Great news.
I hope they do it their way. Sure they will.
LOL about the PR opportunities re the next election.
Wedding 3 weeks out from election???????
Seriously though, this plus the welfare reforms, very good news.
I hope they go very very far! And news in now Pike River agency think they have
identified what has stopped them re-entering the mine……
Except those pesky housing targets won't be met, the trees won't be planted and those child poverdy markers going the wrong direction isn't anything to be pleased about
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.
Of course they're doing something!
They're getting married, showing the leadership position to halt the decline in marriage and civil marriage:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/weddings/112441324/new-zealand-marriage-continues-downhill-trend
It was unseasonably warm today so i had one, it was pretty good 🙂
They will marry quietly and privately with no fuss. We will probably only find out after the event.
My reason for saying so is because Jacinda and Clarke like to keep their private lives private and that is the way it should be.
Thanks Cinny and Anne, for some decency. I am missing veteuviper and find much of the comment on here a little depressing and very sour, so I am on holiday for a while from the Standard, and I notice a few other absences. Cheers.
Their announcement is a timely distraction from the welfare report.
"Their announcement is a timely distraction" – too cynical?
A spokesman for the prime minister said the pair were engaged over Easter weekend.
Yet, it was conveniently announced today. A day Labour once again fell short on public hope and expectations.
CIA puppet's attempted putsch backed by Trump, Abrams, Pompeo and Bolton fails embarrassingly; U.S. state television (CNN) is flummoxed
Win some,
Lose most.
PR you got your Slushies! That would never have happened under Judith. A vote for her may endanger that.
Yes targets won't be met, but they are at least doing something. If you care about those things PR don't vote for Judiths crowd, join Labour and put pressure on them to go further.