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Open mike 03/06/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 3rd, 2020 - 99 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

99 comments on “Open mike 03/06/2020 ”

    • tc 1.1

      Democrats going at each other will please orange45 no end.

      Cuomos probably looking to distract from his own contribution to NY's covid outcome like his initial inaction and unpopular cuts to hospitals etc. He's no saint.

  1. Andre 2

    Gonna be interesting watching the fallout from police using tear gas and other force to drive clergy from church grounds so that the Lyin' King can posture in front of it for a photo op. What with the long history of churches holding a privileged status as sanctuaries from governmental action an'all.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/clergy-st-johns-church-trump_n_5ed6403ac5b6f9c2444b5851

      • James B 2.1.1

        Funny looking "Blackhawk" Fan the flames Andre, let them burn

        [I’ve looked at your comment history and unless you lift your game, you’ll be swooped up in the Pre-Election Clear-Out and Clean-Up – Incognito]

      • lprent 2.1.2

        Blackhawks deployed against Americans in DC.

        Complete bullshit – that isn’t a blackhawk. Twin vertical tail for a starter.

        This is a blackhawk…

      • Chris T 2.1.3

        Um. That isn't a Blackhawk

        • McFlock 2.1.3.1

          Maybe if it had hovered even lower the type ID would have been more accurate /sarc

          • Chris T 2.1.3.1.1

            I never said that I agreed with military helicopters intimidating people.

            It is shit.

            But the top picture even has red cross badging so it is obviously checking out no one is hurt.

            Even if it were a black hawk, which they aren't, it could just be Trump being an even bigger prick than normal as that is what he flies round in, I think. (may not be totally correct, as think it changes)

            • McFlock 2.1.3.1.1.1

              But the top picture even has red cross badging so it is obviously checking out no one is hurt.

              Gotcha. It was concern rotorwash. Just to make sure the rubber bullets weren't hurting anyone. Fucksake.

              • Chris T

                Fantastic

                Selective quoting of a post rules the waves

                • McFlock

                  Well, the bit before "but" was pointless, and the remaining two comments were bullshit.

                  So yeah, I selected the funniest bit of your ~adjacent-apologia to quote.

                  Motherfuckers have deployed more resources to avoid changing police culture than they did while 105k died under their watch, and you're trying to spin this particular shit as either potus or medivac concern. If they didn't want people hurt, they wouldn't be firing "rubber" bullets.

                  • Chris T

                    No. I just pointed out it was a medical helicopter. Which is kind of fucking obvious, if you look at the photo.

                    And the bit before the "but" might be pointless to you, but I disagree with the use of helicopters to intimidate people.

                    This might not fit your obviously bad opinion of me, but I don't really give a shit.

                    • McFlock

                      No, you did more than point it out, you invented some motivation to the helicopter crew, after your intitial takeaway that the main point was whether it was a uh60 (medical or not).

                      Whereas the effects of the helicopter count more than its model number or its decal set. The effects included actual force and, yes, intimidation (which you disagree with while looking for any unlikely excuse for it to be causing those effects).

                      Unless the pilots go on camera to apologise and explain that they really were super concerned someone might have broken a fingernail and they were also completely unaware of the well documented effects of low level flight, I'll stick with occam's razor on their motives.

                  • Chris T

                    Whatever

                    You are the man of the people, and I to you am apparently an arsehole who loves helicopters terrorising people.

                    All is good for you.

                    • McFlock

                      I wouldn't go that far, but you certainly found the model of the helicopter to be a more pressing point than what it was actually doing.

                  • Chris T

                    ??

                    Andre did.

                    I was just replying to him talking about the model ffs

                    • McFlock

                      Talk about taking something out of context.

                      2.1: "Blackhawks deployed against Americans in DC."

                      Obviously the most important part of that line was "blackhawks", rather than the rest of the sentence. /sarc

        • Andre 2.1.3.2

          Then what are the two different types of helicopter shown in the various images and videos? Sure, the one in the image at the top of the article isn't a Blackhawk, it appears most likely to be a Lakota as McFlock says. But nobody claiming "it isn't a Blackhawk" has ponied up an alternative for the second type of helicopter as shown in the tweet in the original article and helpfully reproduced for you above in the response to lprent. That one sure as shit ain't a Lakota, and the landing gear wheels, window configuration, cabin shape, engine intakes, tapered tail boom etc all appear awfully similar to a Blackhawk and unlike any other helicopter in US military service (except Blackhawk derivatives).

    • Stephen D 2.2

      http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2020/06/for-us-civil-military-relations-a-slippery-slope/

      “To reinforce this message, the time has come for the armed forces command and Congress to prevent an expansion of the US military role in domestic crowd control roles. The institutional integrity at the core of democratic governance depends on it.”

      • Andre 2.2.1

        Unfortunately, whatever military personnel still serving that might have the principle to refuse to carry out illegal orders are busy resigning in protest. To be replaced by suckups eager to carry out whatever Kim Jong Orange commands.

        https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/i-wish-you-the-best-us-military-adviser-resigns-after-trumps-controversial-photo-op-at-church/ar-BB14WhpK?li=BBqdg4K

        Nothing is going to go through Congress that puts any kind of leash on the stygian homunculus. Not while Mitch the Mean-age Mutant MAGA Turtle has a stranglehold on the Senate.

        Buckle up, everybody. It's gonna be a bumpy ride. For just the next seven months if we're lucky, four and a half years if we're not.

        • Macro 2.2.1.1

          Admiral Mike Mullen speaks out:

          https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/american-cities-are-not-battlespaces/612553/

          It sickened me yesterday to see security personnel—including members of the National Guard—forcibly and violently clear a path through Lafayette Square to accommodate the president’s visit outside St. John’s Church. I have to date been reticent to speak out on issues surrounding President Trump’s leadership, but we are at an inflection point, and the events of the past few weeks have made it impossible to remain silent.

          Whatever Trump’s goal in conducting his visit, he laid bare his disdain for the rights of peaceful protest in this country, gave succor to the leaders of other countries who take comfort in our domestic strife, and risked further politicizing the men and women of our armed forces.

          There was little good in the stunt.

          While no one should ever condone the violence, vandalism, and looting that has exploded across our city streets, neither should anyone lose sight of the larger and deeper concerns about institutional racism that have ignited this rage.

          As a white man, I cannot claim perfect understanding of the fear and anger that African Americans feel today. But as someone who has been around for a while, I know enough—and I’ve seen enough—to understand that those feelings are real and that they are all too painfully founded.

          We must, as citizens, address head-on the issue of police brutality and sustained injustices against the African American community. We must, as citizens, support and defend the right—indeed, the solemn obligation—to peacefully assemble and to be heard. These are not mutually exclusive pursuits.

          And neither of these pursuits will be made easier or safer by an overly aggressive use of our military, active duty or National Guard. The United States has a long and, to be fair, sometimes troubled history of using the armed forces to enforce domestic laws. The issue for us today is not whether this authority exists, but whether it will be wisely administered.

          ..,

          Furthermore, I am deeply worried that as they execute their orders, the members of our military will be co-opted for political purposes.

          Even in the midst of the carnage we are witnessing, we must endeavor to see American cities and towns as our homes and our neighborhoods. They are not “battle spaces” to be dominated, and must never become so.

          We must ensure that African Americans—indeed, all Americans—are given the same rights under the Constitution, the same justice under the law, and the same consideration we give to members of our own family. Our fellow citizens are not the enemy, and must never become so.

          Too many foreign and domestic policy choices have become militarized; too many military missions have become politicized.

          my bold

          • Andre 2.2.1.1.1

            Retired Admiral Mike Mullen.

            • Macro 2.2.1.1.1.1

              No he retains his rank on reaching retiring age for rank, as we do here in NZ.

              Correctly he is Admiral M Mullen USN (Rtd.)

              As I am Lt Cdr RNZN (Rtd).

              As acting Director Officer Postings (Navy) it was my task to Gazette these things 🙂

              • Andre

                The point being that Mullen is no longer anywhere in the chain of command and therefore has zero influence over whether illegal or just plain wrong orders get carried out or not.

          • Morrissey 2.2.1.1.2

            It's pleasing to see that Admiral Mullen has at last started to show signs he has a heart and a conscience. Ten years ago he was one of the most callous, merciless liars one could find in any sphere of life.

            https://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/07/29/wikileaks.mullen.gates/index.html

  2. I'm not into hero worship, but if ever there were politicians over my lifetime that are deserving of star status, they'd be the likes of JA, H1 (at least in the 1st and 2nd term) and Norman Kirk.

    However while I still support Labour, I'm hoping people don't get complacent because there are a few things that could go very wrong over the next 3 months, and I'm hoping I won't have to feel so bad about not giving them my vote next election unless they get their shit together over a few things.

    Bernard Hickey expresses one (actually more than one) of those things very well:

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pro/2020/06/02/1215973/our-compassionate-pms-mean-policies (no on PRO)

    The more things evolve, the more I'm inclined to the belief that JA is carrying a bit of dead wood in some Ministerial portfolios, AND that she's inclined to believe some of her civil servants without question, whilst what they're telling her is not necessarily what's going on in the real world.

    Given Helen Clark also said the other day that the civil service doesn't have the capacity it once had, and that its operated in a neo-lib, managerialist nirvana – JA would be wise to get a new model of bullshit detector (H1 or H2 might do).

    Alternatively she could start putting as much weight on advice she receives from people at the coal face and from academia as she does from some of her ‘officials’

    • weka 3.1

      which portfolios do you see as the worst for that?

      • OnceWasTim 3.1.1

        Ministers responsible for MBIE MPI NZTA and even MSD have been fed a lot of shit over time.

        Perhaps my biggest disappointment is I L-G. One of my hero-worshiping siblings tells me he's a really 'nice guy'. I'm sure that's true enough but being a nice guy doesn't always make for being a good or competent minister and it seems to me that's often a trap people fall into. No question though that any one of them is a better bet when put beside the current crop of gNats.

        Lately, I've had cause to remember what my father-in-law (a staunch Labour supporter) said when he ditched them during the 80s – to the effect that the likes of Prebble, Douglas and Co didn't have the guts to start their own party – instead hijacking Labour. That stench seems to have 'trickled down to parts of our public service.

        • RedBaronCV 3.1.1.1

          I L-G is one minister that rumour in the hood has it was grappling with his department. Remember that furore about the czech? migrant that was put through his office and blew up in the media? Sending H2 down to Mobie to start breaking it up might not be a bad call. And immigration is tricky

          • OnceWasTim 3.1.1.1.1

            "Grappling with his department". I've been saying that for nigh on 4 years now. It's not just rumour. But its a good example of the state of our ps (at least the senior ranks). The person/people/responsible for that 'demographic profiling' are still there. Why the high turnover in some areas also? And ANYone that thought it OK to use T&C to spy on people should not be in ps roles.

            Under MBIE, its 'the business of people', with their families treated as though they are a COST of doing that business – baggage. Any social considerations are secondary.

            But…..gotta go, back later

            • RedBaronCV 3.1.1.1.1.1

              As far as I can make out a reasonable chunk of our upper civil servants are wedded to the more market less government approach so there won't be an argument from me about repurposing them.

              And yes heads never seem to roll – not in Mobie, Police, Defence no matter how much their dodgy deeds cost us taxpayers. Same with a lot of the state appointed boards.

              Labour may have struggled to clear this pre covid but a reset is badly overdue so that we can appreciate our good public servants.

        • patricia 3.1.1.2

          If we fail to vote for Labour and Greens, and allow National to squeak in, those prats in civil service you're talking about will have their methods entrenched.

          We have to remember all the good things done and put in place while meeting huge problems, of ongoing obstacles, all of which have been dealt with incredibly well.

          The National Party dirty tricks brigade would have us believe that Jacinda Grant and Winston are the only Ministers doing their roles well. Bollocks. That is designed to make Jacinda out to be a power hungry control freak

          They can feck off. She is inclusive well informed and able to take advice. She has shown she won't accept bullying, but will use her discretion where ministers make errors of judgement.

          In her own words, "Be a good human, be kind and support each other" She will live by those words and look for her Ministers and staff to do the same.

          This same story about the few cans of beans for a family of seven migrants has been amplified. She said that was not good enough and asked for more information. 30 million was given to meet those types of need. Granted a month later half this fund has been spent.

          When these people arrive they agree to support themselves if they become ill. This Government has supported them through this pandemic with shelter and food after their employers who brought them here dropped them off their workers lists.

          The paucity of airfares and the cancellation of flights has added to their woes.

          Bryce Edwards has always been a closet National supporter in my view, often taking parts of other stories to support a biased angle of the story, and seldom presents an overview.

          He drips his bias steadily trying to build his already decided hypothesis. He is too obvious. Unfortunately, many forget how Winston's views are really quite conservative, and he could agree with Muller's take on things.

          This could eat into Labour's new polling margin, though a factor may be that Winston sees Muller as "Like Jim Bolger" Stubborn intractable and rather slow and inflexible, Muller having worked for Jim Bolger who has similar traits.

          After working with Jacinda Ardern I can't see him doing that except for political survival. But pundits like Bryce Edwards will muddy the waters happily.
          How do you rock a good leader’s boat? By implying her other ministers are poor managers, purposefully magnifying their erros.

          • OnceWasTim 3.1.1.2.1

            Rest assured @ Patricia, I'll be voting either Green or Labour depending on the promises they make between now and the election – most likely Green.

            In the meantime, I'm sure MoBIE has 'several pieces of work underway in that space to ensure some joined up services might be wrapped around the unfortunate"

            “Ultimately”, it might even come down to the amount of neo-liberal speak I hear from Labour in the meantime, or whether they propose getting off their chuffs and doing something about the state of media

    • RedBaronCV 3.2

      Personally I was a bit disappointed with Bernard's story ( immigration visa's ) as there are some real issues there but it's difficult to get a handle on the actual scope of them which he did not really address and how widespread they are – lots, some , a few?

      Again this is a issue inherited from National who used excessive visa's like crack cocaine for employers to disrupt the local employment markets. Labour by lifting salaries etc had tried to wind it back gently but the process was far from complete.

      Still any broad brush local solutions ( untying work permits , providing welfare) are expensive. Either way we could be potentially adding 200,000 to 300,000 to our welfare role costing about a $1 billion every 6 weeks either as a direct welfare recipient or because they have displaced a local in a job. While a lot of visa holders may see this as an opportunity to attain a situation that they might otherwise not have gained I suspect there is little local appetite for that. Also don't forget that there is a least some evidence that the benefits of the visa's have been heavily oversold by some offshore agents – presumably for a large fee.

      And it is an area where we need good stop gap policy plus a great deal better long term settings. Take the student work visa – there are some 65,000 apparently and according to the education institutes (dying to get their fee payers back to support the bloated salaries at the top) around a third stay on for the work visa's. Our birth cohort leaving education every year is around 50,000 to 60,000. We are suddenly adding another 25%-30%(22,000) to that number of people looking for entry level jobs. No wonder we have such a large number of NEET,s in that age group. They really don't need that level of competition.

      Lastly the farmers. Could the news media give their employer sob stories a harder frame? The various audits in the last couple of years showed that the bulk of them where non compliant with any employment and wage law. Yes they may have an employee stuck overseas but employees can be suddenly unavailable for any number of reasons so get over yourself and hire another one either temporarily or permanently.

      Demanding a government fly them back in again is the height of over entitlement.

      • RosieLee 3.2.1

        100%

      • OnceWasTim 3.2.2

        I agree it is a very complex issue.

        However for whatever reason – whether that 'lack of capacity' H1 talked about, Euro-centric and racist mindset others have talked about (with good reason and incidentally examples – from inside the tent), or incompetence, there are a few basic things that could have been done and should be done now.

        – (Haven't checked their website in a while), but MBIE were encouraging all and sundry to become immigration advisors – so they got what they asked for: complete charlatans mixed in with highly competent and experienced ones. So you'd get someone running say a security firm, or a PTE, or Labour Hire Company providing immigration advice on the side. Hopefully you can see a problem right there!

        – Then you had/have a load of closures and presence in key 'markets'. Note the word MARKETS which even Mr Nice Guy seems perfectly comfortable with.

        – And in those 'markets' where the charlatans and scamsters operate – places that contribute to that $5b export education sector for example, NOT even the slightest attempt to warn people of the dangers.

        – Then you have a Labour Inspectorate which we were assured by an official just before the election had enough inspectors, and who now seems to have changed his tune. An Inspectorate that made excuses when cases of exploitation were reported to them. For some reason, unwilling to involve the Police – probably because they were intent on building their own little police force.

        – Then you have the practice of tying visas to a specific employer, rather than sector, and expecting nothing to go wrong in terms of exploitation and contributing to the trend of driving down wages, AND wondering why employers prefer immigrant labour over Kiwis. Money to be made doncha know and its "best practice"

        I'll leave it at that for now although I could go on. But if I L-G is and was "grappling" with his department, then (provided all the purchase agreements and KPIs and shit are in order), then the State Services Commissioner should have been called in (as in say a James Casson, or a demographic spreadsheeting) – repeatedly called in if necessary and told (asked very nicely) that performance isn't satisfactory. He could probably even be remiinded that we're a sovereign Pacific Nayshun that punches above its weight, albeit under HRH Madge.

        I think the fuckup that is the Ministry for Everything that started out with largesse and designed by a couple of shithouse rats whose intentions should now be obvious has been allowed to contiinue is going to be on this government – even though it's probably quite a convenient entity for them to deal with.

        Off.Chuff.On.Get.With

        • greywarshark 3.2.2.1

          Some really good discussion there, I hope that it is read and absorbed by some whose hearts are still beating in Labour or HM (High Management) or HR (Hyperbole Recherche').

          • OnceWasTim 3.2.2.1.1

            Insomniac as I am @ Grey, you'd probably appreciate my last night.

            It was a dream – call it a nightmare really in which Julie Christie was Jacinda's producer in Julie's latest reality TV show. I L-G was at home up the road in Tinakori with Clark (with an e) arguing over Neve who should be giving whom media training – while Neve was howling her eyes out.

            I can see now why it happened after all I encountered yesterday (and believe me, I'm totally drugless other than the standard statins, beta blockers and aspirin) – although I sometimes wonder whether or not a puff or two of the ganga (incidentally – not exactly foreign to that hero worshiping sibling I mentioned above) would be preferable.

            Thankfully, I woke up PDQ thinking today is the day I finally get to see the emergency dentist (which as it transpired, didn't go well due to a 3 month Cov19 happenstance) – Shit happens, but not half as much as it has for most of our recent immigrants. I could even get to wear a set of pearly white bleached teeth yet, at a cost of thousands, false though they may be – or not (hopefully)

        • RedBaronCV 3.2.2.2

          Look fixing those basics ASAP would be excellent . And reining in the dodgy education sector stuff. I too find it a bit worrying that there have been few policy announcements in this area even quite basic ones so that we don' t have anyone who may be overseas looking to get a new work visa having false expectations.

      • Janet 3.2.3

        “Take the student work visa – there are some 65,000 apparently and according to the education institutes (dying to get their fee payers back to support the bloated salaries at the top) around a third stay on for the work visa's.”

        They do not need to come back and the institutes can keep their staff at the top on their bloated salaries and we can shut the back door visa entry which was never put to New Zealanders before being implemented. The NZ Auckland university students have been doing their studies and are continuing to do their studies and the tests from home , online , until the end of this term, So yes the overseas students can do the same – study at NZ universities online at home, in whatever that country happens to be.

        • KJT 3.2.3.1

          Won't work.

          The overseas students come here for the residency carrot, not education, for most of them.

          The “bums on seats” business model for education, is not good enough to compete with really good distance learning on offer from elsewhere.

          • OnceWasTim 3.2.3.1.1

            +100

            And the likes of Guilford are desperate to get it all going again.

            Here in lil 'ole NuZull that punches above its weight, you too can provide your child with a year (or less) of tertiary education for the mere cost of a modest house. Your chiid can recover the cost of this investment in your family and child's future through our generous 20 hour-per-week work allowance that will enable them to recover your investment in double-quick time and more!

            Invest now! Don't Delay! Places are vanishing fast.

          • OnceWasTim 3.2.3.1.2

            We'll even teach them the fundamentals of how to suck eggs; of the basic laws of supply and demand that are already second nature to them; or even how they can use 'apps' and proprietry products to develop and set up a web site.

            Book now! Places are limited and going fast! Contact your nearest immigration specialist. This is YOUR child's future and an investment for the familiy's future

  3. joe90 4

    Hey, chisellers gotta chisel.

  4. joe90 5

    When English is a 2nd language.

  5. AB 6
    1. Level 4 is too harsh – Australia has got it right
    2. We've been in level 4 too long, move to level 3 now
    3. We should be moving from level 3 to level 2 now
    4. It's confusing, we should go from level 2 to level 1 now

    1,2 and 3 – Simon Bridges, 4 – Todd Muller. So what's changed with the leadership spill? Looks like not much. The same cavalier attitude to public health and the instinctive privileging of business interests above everything else. It's what led to the collapse in their support over the lock-down period and it's still there.

    • Chris 6.1

      Well, this sort of racist dog-whistling hasn't changed. Mind you, short of welcoming his application, there's very little else Muller could say. And of course, Muller couldn't bring himself to do that.

      Maybe this leadership change isn't going to bring the nats' numbers up, and they won't be able to salvage even a moderate loss after all? The next poll's going to be pretty telling.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300026388/national-party-deeply-suspicious-of-refugee-behrouz-boochanis-visa

    • gsays 6.2

      I heard a news item this morning about a group of local academics that are pushing for a relaxation of alert levels.

      When asked about Sweden's approach, a position I assume the group had favoured earlier in the crisis, we are told to refer to the website.

      That is the thing with the opposition, various industry spokesfolk, and your local diehard tory, their reckons don't amount to much, they bear no responsibility, and do not credit the position we are in now to the PTB.

    • Janet 6.3

      Thank goodness a woman was in charge !

  6. joe90 7

    tRump's Praetorian Guard.

    'Murica's Sturmabteilung.

    2) They do not believe they are accountable to Congress, which is why they have no issues lying to them even while under oath. They believe they are only accountable to the President and even then, only to presidents like Trump.

    3) Border Patrol believes it is not required to answer to local police, FBI, CIA or any other law enforcement agency. They claim to be to “premiere” law enforcement agency, superior to all others. They say they will become a “national police force.” To be used by a president

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1227623752583667713.html

    18 February 2020 at 10:48 pm

    • Andre 7.1

      Deploying their military surveillance drones over Minneapolis. More than 500km from any border where they might have any legitimate reason to operate.

      https://www.salon.com/2020/06/02/police-are-using-protests-as-an-excuse-to-unleash-new-surveillance-tech/

      • joe90 7.1.1

        They're about to find out how Iraqis felt.

        • joe90 7.1.1.1

          Fascists do like a party.

          The Drug Enforcement Administration has been granted sweeping new authority to “conduct covert surveillance” and collect intelligence on people participating in protests over the police killing of George Floyd, according to a two-page memorandum obtained by BuzzFeed News.

          […]

          “In order for DEA to assist to the maximum extent possible in the federal law enforcement response to protests which devolve into violations of federal law, DEA requests that it be designated to enforce any federal crime committed as a result of protests over the death of George Floyd,” Shea wrote in the memo. “DEA requests this authority on a nationwide basis for a period of fourteen days.”

          https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/george-floyd-police-brutality-protests-government

  7. ianmac 8

    Today Todd must get the award for the shortest QT question:

    Q3 TODD MULLER to the Prime Minister:
    “Why isn’t New Zealand already in alert level 1?”

    8 words! Wow! And then he will ask the same question multiple times

  8. Ad 9

    Exquisite timing seeing two NZ cops charged with manslaughter for negligence while holding someone in the Hawea station.

    More to come in the trial if they don't plead out.

  9. aj 10

    Watching question time, makes me wonder how many bullets can fit into the oppositions feet?

    • observer 10.1

      Amazing, really. They should have had an easy win. Of course the level 1/2 inconsistency is a problem. Of course PM and deputy PM disagreeing is a bad look.

      Yet somehow they stuff it up.

      • ianmac 10.1.1

        Audrey Young pointed to the PM V DPM difference but…:
        “The differences between Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Peters, her deputy, does not affect the stability of the coalition between Labour and New Zealand First.

        It does not affect the coalition relationship which has endured more damaging differences than this one. It has been an informally managed disagreement that both parties get something from.”
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12336639

  10. Sanctuary 11

    I believe Labour is looking for a competent minister of health. How about offering Sir Ashley Bloomfield a high list place?

    • Ad 11.1

      We don't have a tradition here of seconding Ministers (or indeed from the private sector) to run political office. I think the UK does it.

      We have a good few in the Labour caucus who have medical degrees, but a whole bunch of senior leadership or management experience.

      We are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overdue for a proper reshuffle.

      With the MoH Capital Committee, and DHBs, and Treasury, and the Covid Response team, I really can’t see what the Minister of Health does at all.

      • weka 11.1.1

        well they manage most of the disability funding, as well as funding the DHBs, and managing a range of contracts (govt and NGO).

        • Ad 11.1.1.1

          Yes that's where Dodo ex-Ministers get put once they've been shuffled.

        • Sacha 11.1.1.2

          That's the Ministry, not the Minister. Let's not waste Bloomfield on a less-essential role.

          • weka 11.1.1.2.1

            makes sense, but given the problems with the MoH, isn't it the Minister's job (and behind them, govt caucus) to sort those problems out by setting expectations and direction?

    • patricia 11.2

      The salary won't enthuse him.

    • indiana 11.3

      Say your wish was granted, I doubt he would fit Labour, as its likely ideas such as setting health targets, centralising health boards, providing services by need not ethnicity may be pushed to provide better outcomes for National Health.

      • Incognito 11.3.1

        … providing services by need not ethnicity may be pushed to provide better outcomes for National Health.

        False dichotomy. There are many and major health disparities that are caused by ethnicity. The same can be said about education and crime stats, for example. The approach and philosophy that you seem to be advocating will never overcome these engrained inequalities and will therefore never provide better outcomes at a national level but rather further reinforce the current situation.

        Why do some people say such incredibly stupid things?

        • Ad 11.3.1.1

          +100

          Hence the proven need and delivery of Whanau Ora.

        • indiana 11.3.1.2

          "One option that's been discussed is bumping Māori and Pacific patients up a priority band in certain instances, the Weekend Herald understands. Another might be making Māori and Pacific ethnicity a factor when working out a priority rating score."

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330248

          These are the sorts of ideas I don't think Ashley Bloomfield would support, that's why he would not be a good bet for Labour.

          • Incognito 11.3.1.2.1

            All NZ-trained health professionals are acutely aware and have a good understanding of the health inequalities in this country. The same is true of biomedical researchers trained and/or working here.

            I’d put it to you that ignorance, denial, normalised racism, and poor leadership and management are just some of the factors why we have seen little improvement on this issue.

            • Stunned Mullet 11.3.1.2.1.1

              I'd be interested to know what health inequalities people ascribe to racism in NZ be it via government, medical professionals or another group.

              • Incognito

                I’d think that you’re eminently qualified to take a first bite at this. Go for it!

            • indiana 11.3.1.2.1.2

              I agree with what you have put to me. That's why I doubt Bloomfield would be a good fit for Labour if it is was proposed that he should replace the current Minister of Health.

  11. SPC 12

    The National Party's intelligence unit at work. Trawling through social media …

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/06/do_as_we_say_not_as_we_do-2.html

    • observer 12.1

      "The PM should avoid the public at all costs" is a novel attack line from the opposition.

      Her bodyguards didn't push people out of the way when they got too close? It's a disgrace! Use tear gas like Trump does, that'll ensure appropriate distancing.

    • Cinny 12.2

      Don't often visit that toxic site, but it was worth it today when I saw their adjusted curia poll published on it.

      National 28.9% Hehehe that will be hurting the tories, a lovely reminder for them on every page.

      Back to the topic, maybe the difference is, the nat mp had to ask for someone to take his photo, and that's why the tories are upset…. just a thought 🙂

    • ianmac 12.3

      Read the comments under Farrar and was horrified SPC. I hope that when Farrar supporters read the Standard would they be as horrified with what is written here?

  12. Muttonbird 13

    If Winston has been leaking Cabinet papers to Todd Muller, that is a clear indication of where he intends to side come any post-election negotiations.

    Hoping NZF gets buried this time around. They have been woeful in government.

    • ScottGN 13.1

      I don’t think it indicates that at all. But clearly NZFirst lacks relevance in the current polling scenario. They’re just trying to even up the playing field and deal themselves back in. Frankly Ardern only has herself to blame for this latest incident.

  13. ianmac 14

    The menu on the top of the “Leave a Comment Page” no longer there. Anyone else?

  14. Abba Lerner 15

    Starting to see the effects of QE on settlement balances.
    https://i.imgur.com/ezbgKwl.png

  15. I Feel Love 16

    Heh, my tween daughter just showed me her KPop stars have hijacked the MAGA tag and are bombarding it with fan videos, cute anime, dance and songs. And there's 1000s of them.

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