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Open mike 03/10/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 3rd, 2021 - 59 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

59 comments on “Open mike 03/10/2021 ”

  1. Gezza 1

    For their small fan club.

    Here’s me adopted triplet grandpooklets at 9 am one sunny morning, 8 January 2019.

    Little River is up on the blocks. Big Bruv Shadow (born a week before the other two) is doing fine; bold as brass (I reckoned he’s a boy).

    But River’s “twin” Summer is already growing bigger & despite my entreaties to the adults to “Feed River, feed River” the little one seems to get ignored at times.

    I worried just a tad about the runty one, as ya do, when ya a grandparent. But she did ok in the end. All made it to young adult pukeko.

    View post on imgur.com

    • Patricia Bremner 1.1

      Your little family of pukeko and the rest have seen you through the lockdowns and given real pleasure, and filming their progress joy.

      Opposite us we have a natural park with trees and a stream on its boundary and a wet area which has been protected. It is a designated dog walking park, and we would watch the various breeds joy in running free on the grassy area. The birds would take to the trees and when the visitors were gone, they would all appear again. There is always something happening.

      • Gezza 1.1.1

        The most rewarding part of it has been gaining the trust of the Whanau Pook pukekos, Patricia. That's been videoed with a 2 megapixel vidcam in an old Sony Ericsson 3G mobile.

        I'm right above them, looking down on them leaning the vidcam over the fence.

        But with each new "batch" of pooklets, Bluey gets his trustmeter set to zero by Nature. Doesn't matter how long he's known & trusted me, 3 years by then, if I went thru the gate & approached these pooklets, this young he'd attack me.

    • phantom snowflake 1.2

      Kia ora Gezza. I'm still a fan of your wildlife videos and I'm glad you've found a new home for them.

  2. KJT 2

    David Slack from More Than A Feilding <subslack@substack.com>

    “It really was quite a dazzling kind of inverted political wizardry to get bike riding cast as an act of smug entitled indulgence, and a driver’s love for their double cab ute as tortured victimhood.”

    <<<<From the moment they unveiled the drawing it felt like a Diva’s sweep of the arm: OK you mewling grizzling cyclists, you want a bridge?? Here's a bridge!! Here's the most bridge a bike bridge ever had. How lavish do you eternally moaning guts-achers want it? How about this lavish? Hey, no, don't get up we've got some more lavish to trowel all over youse.

    LOL! Now let's see what hard working New Zealanders think of your dopey Greta delusions. Sure would be a shame if this over-the-top bullshit got your dopey climate crisis ideas tanked.>>>>

    • Molly 2.1

      Once again, even suggesting this bridge was a priority in regards to climate change for Auckland when there are large swathes of non-inner city Aucklanders with abysmal, unaffordable or non-existent transport alternatives after decades of bad town and transport planning is a stretch.

      Addressing that transport inequality should be the priority in terms of climate change mitigation. That's a complex issue that's not going to get simpler by being ignored.

      • Ad 2.1.1

        In the RLTP 2021-20131, most the public transport improvements occur in the south.

        https://at.govt.nz/media/1986141/final-regional-land-transport-plan-2021-2031-web-version.pdf

        Beyond the completion of CRL that is increasingly the case.

        No one has ignored climate change as an issue for transport in Auckland and it's just stupid to say that it has been.

        The Waitemata Bridge was not on the horizon of projects that people opposed in the actual budget consultation. The big ones that tends of thousands of people opposed in the actual consultation that the Minister was supposed to rely on for his prioritisation were Mill Road and Penlink. Penlink survived and Mill Road didn't.

        That the Minister is still stuffing around with the NLTP rather than actually following what was consulted on shows that he just doesn't support cycling. The cycling projects that will be completed in Auckland in the next decade are largely well underway already – and they are in the south of CBD except for New Lynn to Avondale.

        Just a cursory look through the RLTP will show you all of this in the detail you so clearly need.

        • Molly 2.1.1.1

          I am on the AT list for consultation and keep track of local projects out south.

          The AT consultation process that informs them of support and aids in prioritisation is flawed. The demographics of those responding is unlikely to reflect the access and affordability issues of badly served and lower income households. Non participation is not a fault of AT, but their failure to recognise it and mitigate that bias is.

          "More than a third of Aucklanders live within 500 metres of a frequent public transport service, yet the majority of us still choose to use our private motor vehicle for most of our trips" – that's a pitiful amount to justify the following :

          "Road pricing (or congestion pricing) is another important area of regulatory change. The current way Aucklanders pay for using their roads does not incentivise them to be used in the most productive way, or support climate change outcomes."

          Guess which households will be hit by those congestion or road pricing charges? The ones who have to live in areas poorly served by public transport services because of housing unaffordability, and who have no other option but to use the car for commuting, often over long distances. They are already the ones hit hardest by the Auckland fuel tax, and also those unlikely to have transport costs to work paid for by their employer. The continual financial hits on the lowest income households by the failure to address these connecting policies and effects will continue unless AT recognises them.

          I strongly support their walkable neighbourhoods and cycleways initiatives, but consider there should be a recognised difference between recreational community facilities, and those that actually are commuter alternative transport options, that do enable people to get out of cars for essential trips.

          In terms of climate change mitigation, AT needs to look at poorly served communities and do their own research, to figure out how to serve them and not rely on consultation to identify those possible projects. Climate action must include climate justice or climate equity.

          If AT was serious about climate change then only those commuter centred projects for badly served 2/3 of the Auckland population would be undertaken until equality of access was markedly improved.

          That doesn't mean that "recreational" projects are stopped or postponed, just that funding needs to come from existing alternative methods, such as developers or local ratepayer targeted rates. If 75% of local ratepayers support the project, which is likely because it will not only enhance their community, but most likely improve their capital values, then the project can be funded and go ahead.

          • Ad 2.1.1.1.1

            AT consultation is of course a legal requirement under NLTP. They demonstrate at the front who engaged and why. Disability groups and disadvantaged groups all get a focus and they are assisted in this by the Council.

            AT, Council, and Kainga Ora put in extensive engagement into disadvantaged areas outside of that.

            AT already did a major access improvement for PT with their implementation of high frequency buses on key routes. They can't have zero fares unless the government funds them to do so, due to the PTOM model which government has chosen not to change.

            Gen Zero, Greater Auckland and others with a climate focus all put in detailed submissions, and they usually get a significant chunk of hearing time.

            AT already do climate change mitigation projects. Their most recent was jacking up Tamaki Drive by a metre since it's been regularly flooded and cut off. Complementing that of course was the cycling routes under construction all the way from Glen Innes through to the CBD.

            • O 2.1.1.1.1.1

              I know this, Ad.

              Been there, participated in consultation. Friends that I met are still involved, and working on projects.

              I see the demographics at the workshops and presentations, and I also know the technique of going to the same identied representatives to gather the views of tangata whenua.

              One of my close friends, a vocal and enthusiastic participant in the 'protest' ride over the bridge, also used climate change as a reason for the project. Despite the fact that his use of the bridge – which he would undertake because of the pure enjoyment of the experience – would require a car-ride of 40km each way to get there. He meant for other people of course, including the North Shore woman who stood up in the meeting and said she wanted the bridge crossing because she didn't want to use the ferry to transport her $11,000 e-bike because it might get damaged and she also had no guarantee that a ferry would be available when she got to the wharf so she might have to wait. (Apparently, timetables are not a thing on the Shore).

              I also understand that processes may be more efficient in the central city in regards to community consultation and implementation. I live in Franklin, where after a typical AT consultation (where I was able to solicit and provide a large number of household responses) we were successful to be allocated a public transport service in a small community of rapid residential growth. Our local board representative, who represents us, but lives in another community that was unsuccessful due to the low response (and at that time, low growth pattern) publicly said how annoyed he was that our community got transport and his didn't. The consequent service offered – connecting up to the train station in town – started at 10.45am daily and ended at 4.45pm. Not suitable for daily commutes of workers or schoolchildren. What I consider a set up to fail scheme. Unfortunately, the residents of the community utilised it regardless, and I am happy to say it remains.

              Those who know how the system works, make it work for them. Fair enough. They then assume that if anyone, anywhere else wants something, all they have to do is the same. But for those underrepresented, it is not knowledge or understanding or lack of wanting improvements, it is often lack of time, resources, experiences of not being heard in other forums.

              I also think the focus of many local boards in areas of lower-income households have additional priorities that take precedence: access to healthcare, safety, crime etc. So, even the local board members elected in on three year terms, don't have the time to learn and advocate in transport and planning in the same way as others without those concerns.

              But I have never spoken to anyone else who – quite rightly – looks to make improvements in their own neighbourhood and undertakes to consult and eventually present on a project – who takes the time to look around and say, "You know what? There are neighbourhoods that have a greater need for this money. Are we able to get this funding by using targeted rates and/or some other method?".

              The system is not set up to address the inequality that already exists.

              It functions effectively yes, but my perception is that it continues to contribute to the divided nature of Auckland communities, and the laughable concept of "liveable city" where there are so many deprived neighbourhoods.

              (Sorry, moderators, just noticed the error in username – should be Molly)

  3. Forget now 3

    I saw this in the ODT yesterday, which sparked some thoughts but I was a bit tired from my second jab to string them together. Seeing it this morning; republished on the RNZ website for a wider audience, I feel that I should try express my own counterview:

    Ellison said a more commonly used title in the south was Aotearoa me Te Waipounamu, which encompassed both major land masses…

    On the wider subject of changing the names of settlements and natural features, he said Ngāi Tahu had their own process to do similar work in the south, which was more gradual than what the Māori Party suggested.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/452781/ngai-tahu-leader-let-s-not-rush-name-change

    Firstly, a huge caveat that as Ngāpuhi/ Ngāpākehā, my own hapū are outsiders to Te Waipounamu iwi politics ourselves, though there are some commonalities. And if you keep your eyes and ears open, you pick things up.

    My initial reaction was mild amusement at the author of the piece using; Ngāi Tahu to describe Ōtākou marae kaumatua Edward Ellison, in an article arguing for listening to Te Waipounamu kōrero. There's a bit of a north/ south gradient on this; where the Ng is replaced by a K (eg Rūnanga becoming Rūnaka). Historical reasons trace back to the invasion of Kāti Māmoe lands by the northern Ngāi Tahu who, over decades of conquest and assimilation largely supplanted the existing political structure, but not exterminating the common people, thus eventually becoming the present day Kāi Tahu. Though I have even heard Kāti Tahu, way up in the southwest of Murihiku, so perhaps Ka'i Tahu would be a better spelling there (though that looks more Samoan than Māori!).

    It is far more common to hear; Te ika a Māui, for the northeastern island of the Aotearoan archipelago, than Aotearoa. Sometimes you hear; Te waka a Māui & Te puka a Māui too, for; Te Waipounamu & Rakiura respectively, though it's not very common, especially for everyday usage where you want to be clearly understood. But I am rarely out at Ōtākou marae (last time would have been Puaka/Matariki a couple of years back), so I can not say for sure what the most prevalent terms are there.

    But speaking of gradual process for name changing, a lot of takata Kāi Tahu, would argue that the process has been too slow. This was a mere 5 years ago:

    Nigger Stream, near Arthur’s Pass, will now officially be named Pūkio Stream after a native grass (Carex Secta) found in the area.

    Niggerhead, which is above Lake Sumner, will be called Tawhai Hill after a species of native Beech Tree found in the South Island.

    Nigger Hill, to the east of Arthur’s Pass, will be renamed Kānuka Hills after a species of native tea tree that grows in the area.

    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/decisions-made-north-canterbury-place-names

    Anyway, I am getting fairly long here, so I will just link to this Godferey piece from a month back, which covers much of what I would additionally say:

    The early European explorers understood the power of naming, hence their international effort to remake the world in the English language.

    Māori understand the same imperative, and enough Māori accept Aotearoa as the name for New Zealand that its historic fidelity no longer matters.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/29/a-neat-trick-critics-aim-to-shift-aotearoa-debate-but-historical-fidelity-no-longer-matters

    • weka 3.1

      Interesting and thought provoking, thanks.

      Been wondering when Te Waipounamu would come up. How many people in the North Island know what it means?

      I liked Ellison’s style. Due given to TPM, pointing gently to the problems, standing in his own people’s power and their process without making a fuss about it.

      Kai Tahu I know whakapapa to not only Kai Tahu but variously to iwi and hapu that predate Kai Tahu, the longer history of Te Waipounamu. I will be interested to hear what they have to say.

      • Gezza 3.1.1

        That the South Island is known by southern Māori as Te Waipounamu, & the North Island as Te Ika-a-Maui (with both having various other Māori names too) has always made me a bit leery about calling the whole country Aotearoa – The Land of The Long White Cloud I always understood was a reference to the North Island only.

        When this topic would surface on another blog, I used to say, only half-jokingly, a better option might be to come with a hybrid
        Māori+English word for our country.

        My preference was for Kiwiland. The main reasons being that’s a combo word of both languages, & New Zealanders overseas, Māori & Pākehā have been collectively called Kiwis for what must be at least a century now.

        However, Aotearoa seems to have now been accepted by various governments & by government departments like Internal Affairs, who’ve had this Māori name apearing on our passports for many years now.

        • Gezza 3.1.1.1

          Dunno what’s wrong with my broadband connection (to this site & others) this morning. Sites are agonisingly slow to connect & open, & even trying to type in the address & comments field here take an interminable anount of time.

        • Forget now 3.1.1.2

          I like Aozearoa as a hybrid word myself; Gezza, though it hasn't caught on at all. You should read Godferey's Guardian piece, he goes into some detail about the history of the use of Aotearoa (you could even argue that is just Northland as Kupe is reputed to have landed there; though accounts, as always, differ between iwi).

          The hyphens make Te Ika-a-Māui, fairly cumbersome to write, but Te IkaaMāui just looks wrong. I have recently (in the past few years) heard it being referred to as Te Ikanui, though sometimes that seems to be just Auckland (the Big Fish, as pacific equivalent of the Big Apple?), and others the whole northeastern island. I guess that hybrid word is still evolving. I have also seen variations on simply translating New Zealand into Te Reo as something like; Whenua Hou-moana, which may or may not go anywhere. It is very difficult to predict future language usage.

          • Gezza 3.1.1.2.1

            I will read that Guardian piece now, Forget now. The bb connection was so slow most of this morning I’d given up on the internet.

            Seems to be working fine again now.

            Funny you should mention the too-long NI name. I feel the same way. I’d have liked them just to be called, colloquially, Te Ika (or Teika) , & Pounamu.

            Rakiura is already just Rakiura to me, altho if someone asks “Where?”, I’ll reply “Stewart Island”.

          • Gezza 3.1.1.2.2

            Yes that Guardian article is eminently readable. The writer has a nice, easy & engaging writing style. I did find it interesting & I have come to the same conclusion about Aotearoa being now the most commonly accepted Māori country-name word for the whole of New Zealand.

            One of my former hesitations about it was the likliehood that many English-speaking visitors might mispronounce it as Ayo tee ah rower, instead of Ow tear roar.

      • Forget now 3.1.2

        I was going on long enough already, so I did gloss over the whole Waitaha issue; Weka. Essentially, Kāti Māmoe did the same thing as Ngāi Tahu later did; of settling Te Waipounamu from the north by war and marriage, Before then, there were many iwi, of which Waitaha is the best known with oral histories (fragmented and partially lost now) going back to around 1000 BCE in which they claimed to have discovered the southern islands including; Te Waipounamu, Rakiura, and ngā Moutere Tītī. Though the earliest tales are more legendary than history.

        The specific Waitaha iwi (as opposed to Waitaha as a generic term for all pre-Māmoe Te Waipounamu inhabitants) was located primarily around the Waitaki river. To this day, some there will call themselves Kaitaha rather than Kāi Tahu, though not so much around outsiders, especially the Ngāi Tahu descended rangatira. Canterbury Kāi Tahu have also somewhat appropriated the name to refer to their own province (and thus bolster their mana within the iwi) for example; Te Whare Wānanga o Waitaha (Canterbury University), is in Ōtautahi, not Oamaru.

        It's not easy to compress a thousand years of still debated and controversial poorly documented history/ archeology into a couple of paragraphs, and wasn't entirely on topic – so I left it out. It is interesting though.

        But more important is the present politics in Te Tai Tonga electorate, which you best believe that any kaumatua worth the title will be hip deep in. The present TTTonga MP is Labour's Rino Tirakatene following the 1996 campaign-trail death of his father (RT senior) and heir apparent to the Tirakatene political dynasty. RT beat Katene o Te Pāti Māori in 2011 and has held the TTTonga seat ever since (though not as long as his Grandfather or Aunt yet).

        However, in 2020 RT's (still large majority) win in TTTonga found TPR's Tākuta Ferris in second place (Green Party's ex-coleader Turei being 2nd in 2017). With the gap between Tirakatene-Sullivan and RT being over a decade long, the name Tirakatene is no longer quite as synonymous with Southern Māori MP as it used to be. Especially if TTTonga urban Māori voters start seeing a resurgent TPM as being more representative of their needs than the Labour party.

        https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2020/electorate-details-71.html

        So a bit of quiet knobbling of a campaign generating favourable publicity for TRP by Te Waipounamu marae leaders is not to be taken without a grain of salt.

    • Gezza 3.2

      Something that's perhaps apt to get lost in any likely hullaballoo over the suggestion to rename English cities, towns & place names is that not all those places necessarily had he ingoa Māori (a Māori name)nin the first place.

      Just as Māori often named places & prominent landmarks after their ancestors, or a significant characteristic of the area (eg Kaikōura), the English, Irish, Scots & other later settlers did so too.

      There were several small Māori settlements & villages in & around what is now Wellington City & its coastal environs when the Pākehā settlers first began arriving.

      The main Pākehā settlement was originally called Port Nicholson, from where the area now known as Pōneke has most likely derived as a loan word. None of those original Māori settlements amounted to the sizeable city of Wellington which built and named subsequently.

      I would therefore argue that Wellington should remain the name of our capital city. However, I have no problem with accepting the name Te Whanganui-a-Tara (the Great Harbour of Tara) because Tara, a Northern tribes great sailor, explorer & rangatira found it spent some time there.

  4. Tricledrown 4

    Brian Tamaki should be arrested immediatly.

    What an idiot undoing the hard work of millions of NZers.

    He should pay for the damage he has caused if that means stripping all his assets so be it.

    The govt and people of NZ have lost 100's of millions to keep covid out undone by a nut job narcissist.

    • Byd0nz 4.1

      Totally agree, and now he's planning more of the same, we should not be pandering to this nutjob, it's beyond comprehension.

    • Anne 4.2

      Repeat of my comment on one of yesterday's threads:

      Narcissists never reflect on what they say or write. They have the ability to block off all memory of their failures and misdiagnosis. It enables them to continue to misguide people with their false reckons…

      Anyone who has been on the receiving end of a full blown narcissist will know how destructive they are. The police have an obligation to isolate Tamaki before he further undermines the vaccination programme.

    • dv 4.3

      Perhaps the police should spray them with a dye so they can be recognised in the wild.

      And so hospitals can triage them to a tent in the car park if they need treatment

    • Patricia Bremner 4.4

      Leo Molloy and Brian Tamaki belong to the same bike club? They both organised this and should be called out for not upholding an over riding health order.

      The Police have at times not helped the Government by standing back too much. Both men and their committee should have been told 'Do this and you will be fined as you are defying the Director of Health." Now they should be served.

      There is a growing meme that we are being locked down to give the Government huge powers. When the Police do not enforce health orders, what hope is there for compliance from those in society who think their freedoms overide all else?

      Or folk who believe their version of religion is the one, and the Old Testament verses direct their behaviour through a self appointed Apostle.

      Leo Molloy ended up in court previously for ignoring lock down rules, so this was a huge "so there" from him imo.

      N.B. Both these men should pay back any Government assistance they have claimed!

      We either have health orders or we don't in a pandemic. The police should enforce the rules where it is patently obvious people intend to break them. Those involved in organising this should face fines at the very least, to help pay for any resulting testing and tracing.

      Or at least they should be given a serve by all of us doing as I am.. calling them out as selfish ignorant egomaniacs who could not wait one more week.

      The Police are trying to keep people reasonable in their behaviours, but that is bound to fail with unreasonable people, and increases the liklihood of further protests.

      This has been a big Police failure in my opinion. It has made a mockery of the rules right when we are likely to beat this again. That would not suit some agendas though would it? Poto Williams was also missing in action here.

      Brian and Leo.. Pay back any Covid assistance!!!!!

      • Gezza 4.4.2

        Damn straight!

        Watching that dangerous bloody dkhead Tamaki on One News at 6 I couldn’t believe the police hadn’t arrested the beggar!

      • Forget now 4.4.3

        Who is Leo Molloy? The name means nothing to me.

        Ardern says that it's an operational matter for police, but that the investigation is ongoing:

        Protest a 'slap in the face' to Aucklanders

        Ardern said the protest which took place in Auckland is a matter for police, and police are looking at this. She said she has faith in the police.

        She has a personal view on the protest, and that was that "it was wrong", morally wrong.

        Aucklanders are working hard to keep safe, and for them "it was a complete slap in the face" for them.

        Bloomfield also added this was "frustrating and disappointing".

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300421687/live-33-new-community-covid19-cases-32-in-auckland-1-in-waikato

        • Andre 4.4.3.1

          Leo Molloy is a former arsehole racehorse jockey turned former arsehole veterinarian turned arsehole publican and arsehole restaurateur. In other words, the perfect host for the clientele he attracts to his establishment at the Viaduct Basin. I had the misfortune of encountering him a couple of times in his veterinary student days.

          If you really want to know more, here's a profile. But trust me, that knowledge won't enrich your life in any way. Possibly the telling of it might, tho.

          https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2019/06/meet-leo-molloy-the-angriest-man-in-the-viaduct.html

        • Grafton Gully 4.4.3.2

          As I recall, Ardern also said the Raglan case was unvaccinated and that three household contacts who were vaccinated have not yet developed symptoms. Test results not mentioned, probably not back yet. Comforting to hear that vaccination appears to protect close contacts from the delta strain.

          I'm impatient for a booster shot and hoping Brian and Leo will have a road to Damascus moment.

      • mary_a 4.4.4

        Thank you Patricia (4.4). Agree wholeheartedly with your comments.

        As far as I'm concerned, the police failed the people of Auckland yesterday, not only once, but twice. Apart from being seen to do nothing at the Tamaki protests, they were absent (apart from two police cars), during a wild motorcycle ride through the main streets of Auckland's CBD yesterday afternoon, with motorbikes not only taking over the main road, going through red traffic lights, but also riding on footpaths, while adults and children waited to cross the road. Some riders were not wearing protective headgear, while others rode on two wheels!

        Why isn't the NZ police force protecting this country's citizens? Massive failures on their part in two very public incidences, both in Auckland.

        • RedLogix 4.4.4.1

          You must understand that the sum total of all the gangs in NZ are probably better armed and organised than police and army combined. For as long as they remain divided you're probably safe.

  5. Patricia Bremner 5

    Perhaps the powers that be are ignoring him. Don't know how useful that will be.

    It is interesting that the newly infected in hospital appear to be the unvaccinated, and perhaps they did not want to over shadow that by drawing attention to him, as events have overtaken things with the Raglan and Hamilton East being involved with new cases.

    I still feel Robertson would be within his rights to ask for a refund to cover the Policing and any fallout.

    • Andre 5.1

      The truckie that was infectious in Palmie was apparently also unvaccinated.

      How the fuck is it still happening that we have a closed internal border to control covid, yet we are allowing unvaccinated people to cross it?

      • Treetop 5.1.1

        Weekly testing is required. Enforcing when unvaccinated no travel out of a level 3 zone would minimise the spread. The reality is that some people will not get vaccinated at all.

  6. Pataua4life 6

    Look at the places of interest in the Waikato.

    Raglan, Huntly etc.

    Given that the PM has been reluctant to give any details I can almost be 100% sure this spread is gang related.

    Give them 2.75 mil, let them keep their guns and what do we get for it. Covid for everyone. Happy days

    • Forget now 6.1

      Raglan; I think surfing, Huntly; I think coal fired electricity. Do you have any basis for your assumption gangs were involved; Pataua4life? The list of locations of interest outside Auckland just looks like the truckers route to and from Palmerston North. Also:

      One case is in Raglan and the other is in Hamilton East…

      The Ministry said the Raglan case is currently self-isolating and will be moved to a quarantine facility. They were tested on 1 October after feeling unwell and their infectious period is determined to be from 27 September.

      This person has three household contacts who are also isolating.

      The second case is a known contact of the Raglan case and was also tested after becoming unwell.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/452806/two-new-covid-19-community-cases-reported-in-waikato

      https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-health-advice-public/contact-tracing-covid-19/covid-19-contact-tracing-locations-interest

      The only times I've been to Hamilton East, I was visiting whanau at the university. It didn't strike me as having a large gang presence. Though that was a while ago now.

      • I Feel Love 6.1.1

        Ham East is studentville, Raglan full of yuppies & small farm lifestylers, who knows wtf p4life is on about.

        • garibaldi 6.1.1.1

          Huntly West has many problems resulting from poverty.

          The Raglan area is by no means comparable to Pauanui.

          Hamilton East has a few areas of lower socio-economic conditions.

          Thirty five years of Rogernomics. Spot the connection.

    • Pete 6.2

      You can almost be "100% sure this spread is gang related?"

      I can be almost 100% sure that you are taking a wild guess and actually have nothing to go on for the assumption.

      I am 100% sure you are simply using the opportunity of covid reaching Hamilton East and Raglan to try to make some pathetic point about the government. Using Mike Hosking's signature ending gives the comment the stamp it deserves.

    • felix 6.3

      Bullshit. Raglan's gang population is all Mongrel Mob and they don't tend to get on very well with the dominant gangs in Huntly. I can be 100% sure that Pataua4life is full of shit.

  7. Drowsy M. Kram 7

    …that has no essential relevance to privilege.

    That's one PoV, and it's your right (and privilege) to alter comments and/or moderate accordingly.

    I hold a different PoV, and can only speculate as to why our views differ. Regardless of one's PoV, being truly blind to skin colour remains an uncommon form of colour blindness to this day, imho.

    Rereading: Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin
    One day in 1964 John Howard Griffin, a 44-year-old Texan journalist and novelist, was standing by the side of the road in Mississippi with a flat tyre. He saw a group of men approaching him. Griffin assumed the men were heading over to assist him but instead they dragged him away from his car and proceeded to beat him violently with chains before leaving him for dead. It took Griffin five months to recover from the assault.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • weka 7.1

      I moved your comment to OM because it’s off topic, and there’s enough going on that fast thread already. The whiteness thing is a conversation for another place, and perhaps another day, but feel free to continue to explire it in OM.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.1

        Thanks weka, all good – imho 'skin colour privilege' is a matter of fact, and it amazes and confuses me that (some) intelligent people feel the need to deny this.

        Is 'white privilege' really a divisive term? [28 June 2021]
        This shows a failure in the proper communication of the meaning of the term “white privilege”. As many have pointed out, it does not mean white people are not disadvantaged, their lives are not hard, or they have not suffered, it just means their skin colour is not an impediment in their lives.

        The relevance of ‘white privilege‘ to the “Who are these angry Aucklanders?” post may elude some, but there have been several examples of ‘COVID anger’ directed at Auckland minorities. Admittedly focused more on cultural practices/habits than skin colour, but they can be so devilishly difficult to disentangle.

  8. Ad 9

    Anyone done an art auction live?

    Webbs is doing their ceramics one at the moment – the tension is still there with it all online.

  9. SPC 10

    The Juice Media consider the Australien government AUKUS move.

  10. SPC 11

    A look at the issue of natural (by infection) immunity and vaccination immunity.

    Some nations with 80% vaccination have effective 90% immunity because of infection (whether past infection or that currently going through their schools).

  11. SPC 12

    With lock down going on, it's time to look at support for small business on rent costs.

    Last year arbitration was all Winston Peters would agree to, but it's the large businesses that can afford the legal costs.

    What about

    Level 4 – the tenant pays 25%, the landlord receives 33% – the government provides 8% (4% gratis and 4% as an interest free loan the business pays back).
    Level 3 – the tenant pays 33%, the landlord receives 50% – the government provides (8% gratis and 8% as an interest free loan)
    Level 2 – the tenant pays 50%, the landlord receives 66% – the government provides 8% gratis and 8% as an interest free loan)

    Of course essential businesses that operate at Level 4 not included, nor those "office" staff firms that still earn income by having people work at home.

    Apart from limiting government assistance to small businesses only, another way to limit cost on government is to have the total rent paid be 25%, 33% or 50% in the cases of larger commerical landlord firms.

  12. Sabine 13

    Maybe look at rent holidays.

    Many owners of commercial properties are stuck in loans. So essentially the government must / should provide legal framework that would allow a landlord to be able to wipe some of the rent without risking his own repayments to the bank.

    Another legal framework that will be needed is one that allows people to get out of leases that are kaputt forever. It can't be considered good practice that these people sell their homes to pay a lease for a business that due to no fault of their own can't be run anymore. If they can get out of these leases, they then have a chance to move on and do / start something else more suited to these interesting times we are living in.

    • SPC 13.1

      Last year arbitration was all Winston Peters would agree to, but it's the large businesses that can afford the legal costs.

      This covers the basic direction to the arbitration.

      https://hobec.co.nz/news-resources/2020/april/update-the-adls-lease-and-epidemics

      There were mortgage holidays for residential property owners and their landlords last year.

      Is it not possible for a business to declare bankruptcy because it cannot operate and void any future rent liability as per the lease?

      • Sabine 13.1.1

        Bankruptcy brings a lot of other things with it, so personally would not ever go for it.

        The point is that these people who got stuck – say travel agencies – have long leases left. If you lease a business in a busy fringe you don't do that for a year or two, some leases are very long. Also, there is the re-lease, how long will it take for a property to find new takers? So essentially everyone who must drop out will try to buy themselves out of the lease. I.e. offer a certain amount a year or two of full lease and hope it is enough and will be accepted.

        Now they did not do anything to deserve to lose their business, a pandemic is a pandemic, what can you do. But they should also not left in limbo, trying to deal with it on their own and without much success.

        We must get used to 'for lease' signs when we venture out in the future.

      • Graeme 13.1.2

        Most smaller leases will have personal guarantees which make company structures or bankruptcy to avoid lease liabilities tricky. Pretty much pay up and the landlord wins.

    • Jenny how to get there 13.2

      Sabine

      3 October 2021 at 8:14 pm

      ….allow a landlord to be able to wipe some of the rent without risking his own repayments to the bank.

      ….the government must / should provide legal framework that would allow a landlord to be able to wipe ALL of the rent without risking his own repayments to the bank.

      In 1914 and again in 1931 the government did exactly that.

      …..by 1931, it was clear that further intervention was necessary to prevent widespread foreclosures and mortgagee sales…..

      ….Although mortgage relief was frequently discussed at some length by contemporary commentators, and by some historians in the 1950s and 1960s, it has been relegated to a few lines at most in more recent works.’

      …..This Act also extended to lessees [renters] the same protection
      that had been granted to mortgagors,

      The modification of mortgage conditions was not new in New Zealand. A ‘mortgage moratorium’ had been imposed as a war measure in 1914,

      http://www.nzjh.auckland.ac.nz/docs/1987/NZJH_21_2_03.pdf

      Brian Tamaki has led a protest demanding no more lockdowns. Tamaki is tapping into the hardhship that lockdowns cause.

      Only a full mortgage and rent moratorium can ease the hardship that lockdowns cause SMEs and family households.

      If past government could do it once, (and in fact did it twice). Why can't the current government?

      It is not like the big mostly Australian owned banks who take $3.5 billion out of our economy every year can't afford it.

      Why is everyone else's income effectively slashed in lockdown but their's is not?

      Under level the 4 lockdown in Auckland, elimination was close to being achieved before it was lifted early before it had finished its job. The lockdown was lifted early before it had done its job, because of the political pressures and the hardships caused at the flax roots of society.

      Caving in to the Brian Tamakis of this world and to the National Party and various other right wing lobbies, The Prime Minister has said there will be no return to level 4 lockdown. Right Wing commentators and pundits have celebrated this announcement, as the end of the government's 'elimination strategy'.
      The government in reply have denied this. The reality is, until we reach at least 90% vaccination coverage, to save lives and protect our health system from being overwhelmed, Full Level 4 Lockdown which has been our most effective measure to date, must remain part of the tool kit.

      If hospitalisations and deaths start to rise, and a return to level 4 becomes necessary. A full mortgage and rental moratorium for the period of the lockdown, is in my opinion, the only way to make another major lockdown stick.

      We need to share the pain with those who can most afford it.

  13. Jenny how to get there 14

    An interesting read:

    I think there are a lot of lessons we can learn from Portugal

    With 85% of the population vaccinated, Portugal is running out of people to jab.

    And rather than go for booster shots, the surprisingly humane submarine captain, placed in charge of the vaccine roll-out who appears on TV in his military fatigues, is more concerned with getting the vaccine to unvaccinated former Portuguese colonies.

    What a Guy.

    We need someone like that here. Someone who can see the bigger picture. That it is not just about us, but it is also about that part of the world that we owe a duty of care to. In our case the smaller Pacific nations in our region.

    Now that employers have got their demand to lift restrictons on bringing in temporary migrant workers from the Pacific Islands. An outbreak here could be spread back home with devastating results. Especially in countries that don’t have the same level of health infrastructure we have here.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300421229/covid19-portugal-is-running-out-of-people-to-vaccinate-so-what-comes-next

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