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Open mike 03/12/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, December 3rd, 2019 - 155 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

155 comments on “Open mike 03/12/2019 ”

  1. RedLogix 1

    Grandmother dumps burnt remains of home at Parliament House in climate change protest.


    Simple, effective and powerful.

    • Anne 1.1

      I still don't fully understand why – when ordinary, everyday people going about their ordinary, everyday lives can comprehend climate change and all that it means for the planet – the governing leadership continue to live in Cloud Cuckoo land.

      If they are so s**t dumb why in God's name are they being elected to these positions?

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.1.1

        Because they are bought and paid for by the mining, gas and coal industry – both Labour and Liberals.

        Not Shit Dumb – more like corrupt and craven.




      • Karol121 1.1.2

        It's because if the voters really woke up to how much of their lifestyle choice (referred to by them as necessity) would actually be taken away from them by politicians (as leaders) taking very affirmative action on such matters, they would probably learn to base their opinions on cold or hot hard FACT.

        So really easy to use the various elected reps as whipping boys/girls to blame for all manner of ills (usually out of their control) to manage.

        Convenient also to vote, as if serious about carbon issues, but hoping like anything that the politicians DON'T take too firm a stand which might burst the good folk's personal and community bubble, or restrict them in any way from doing what they are used to doing, which is mainly creating hot air of their own.

        I liken Skippy Granny and her burnt offerings to Parliament House as similar to blaming the guy at the liquor store who sold me a six pack, for the noisiness of the dudes down the road throwing a party.

        Powerful, not really. And about as symbolic as throwing old paint tins at them because someone imagined an "extra" hour of daylight brought about by the introduction of daylight saving had caused the paint on their house to crack and blister.

        Granny Skippy and her burnt offerings

  2. millsy 2

    Last night's poll results should worry the government. Labour needs to stay above 40%, and it has failed to do so.

    There are heaps of people who I know personally who would be screwed over by a National government, cut adrift by a toxic mixture of small state ideology, and the Calvinist culture of paying eternal penance for a small mistake made.

    This government has been dissapointing and underwhelming, but a National government, backed up with ACT, and possible the New Conservatives, plus the Maori Party, would be a disaster for anyone who is poor, sick, in need of a home, a union member, etc.

    • Sacha 2.1

      It's MMP. One party does not 'need' to stay over 40% if it has viable coalition partners.

    • gsays 2.2

      Hear hear, especially the party that used to speak for the working person. They need to get above 40% so as not to rely on unpleasant coalition partners.

      Unless, of course, they are happy to not be transformational: e.g. CGT, reform of fishing industry, housing for the less well off, effective diminishing of child poverty.

      Billions of surplus dollars and benefit rates still can't be returned to pre Ruthanasia levels.

      • Gosman 2.2.1

        Given the polls at the moment if they go down that route they won't have a mandate for that level of radical change.

        • Stuart Munro.

          The want of a mandate never troubles the loathsome reptiles of the Right – who imposed Rogergnomics on us without so much as a by-your-leave. There's a comeuppance due for that – a rebalancing towards a democratic rather instead of a plutocratic society.

          a leader (or in contemporary politics, a party) should seek the support of the people rather than favouring his ‘great’ allies or partisans is that the ambitious ‘great’ regard themselves as his equals, and therefore wish to displace him. They will demand ever more offices and goods as the price of their continued support. Attempts to satisfy them will necessarily fail and, in failing, add to the leader’s enemies. A leader can satisfy his people, however, because ‘the end of the people is more decent (onesto) than that of the great, since the great want to oppress and the people want not to be oppressed’.


          • Sacha

            Be fascinating to see what Machiavelli would make of current politics.

            • Stuart Munro.

              Sadly I think he'd be right at home. But I think he'd have liked the enlightenment and the European spring. He got tired of the self-appointed nobles screwing up his hard work.

          • cleangreen

            yesWell aid Stuart 100%.

            That poll doesn't take the yesterdays announcement of a massive spend on infrastructure into account yet so this poll is premature to rely upon now.

            Labour needs to get some lost transport services back in operation now and most glaring at us all is the low use of rail in all provinces, that generate our wealth like Gisborne/HB and others.

            • Stuart Munro.

              I agree – restoring a more sustainable transport network makes sense on so many levels. But it has to make it past the peripatetic malice of a neoliberal civil service – pragmatic good sense rarely gets a look in.

              • cleangreen

                Yes Stuart, We have been fighting for the rail service from Napier to Gisborne now for 19yrs and three rail companies later, Tranzrail, Toll Rail, and finally Kiwi rail,

                We are still there going gang busters to get the rail up and running again, and it is very challenging when the trucking lobbyists have such power and influence in Wellington but finally this government are showing promise.

                Fingers crossed we hope.

        • McFlock

          If the trends had continued every time someone had said "if these trends continue" based on a few early data points, we'd all be dying from SARSebolaStrepMadCowDisease.

        • gsays

          Leaders don't need mandates.

          Politicians who want to keep their jobs look for mandates.

          There is nothing radical about raising benefit rates. Employment Contracts Act and wine, lamb and dairy products from Aotearoa costing less overseas than here is radical.

      • Sacha 2.2.2

        Quite tricky boosting benefit rates when you're a party of the workers, let alone those who see themselves as the 'middle class'. If beneficiaries voted more then the calculations might be different.

        • greywarshark

          But presentation of a policy can make all the difference. Raising benefit rates will offset health problems, disease etc. Bringing back educational opportunities and skills training boosts work-ready people etc. The positive advantages of a healthy happy working society are known, the people need support to get on their feet though; the government and country can't have the good society without showing the sensible planning and support for all the people to reach a place where they can be full participants in the enterprise economy.

          By the time you have come out with all of that the wealthy's eyes glaze and they say with irritation – get on with it then.

          • Gosman

            "Raising benefit rates will offset health problems, disease etc. "

            Do you have evidence that this is the case? I suspect you just presume this is the case or you will refer to some vague generalised study to support your argument.

            • Wensleydale

              It's nice to see you have such an open mind, Gossie.

              • Sacha

                It's how the talking points get in. 🙂

              • cleangreen

                Yes Wensleydale – it is nice,

                Gosman it makes perfect sense that if 'raising benefit rates' means more money in citizens pockets which will allow better health of those citizens, because they have extra funds to buy medicines for early treatment of any medical problem they face.

                Look up "Preventive medicine" to see the logic please.

                I have a disability Gosman that occurred when I was exposed to chemicals and early intervention would have saved me from a now known long term chronic disability.

                Do you see the logic there?

                If I was able to fund early treatment my health would have been fine today but because at the time of my injury I had no funding to get early treatment so I suffered since with a long term chronic disability.

                • Gosman

                  Except I asked for any studies on the topic not anecdotal evidence.

                  • Grafton Gully

                    Oh sometimes "studies" are an unethical waste of time. Like the death rate from being forced off a plane in the south Atlantic without a parachute and rescue vessel.

            • Brigid

              This research by Evelyn Forget "The Health Effects of a Canadian Guaranteed Annual Income Field Experiment"


              Now go away and shut the fuck up


              trying not to react with abuse

              • cleangreen

                Bridget thanks for the study it was not surprising to see that the Canadian model proved the worth of giving a sustainable income that saved hospital costs.

                I was actually chemically poisoned inside the CBC 12 story building at the corner of Front street and John St at the foreshore of Lake Ontario in Toronto.

                I was one of 40 communication and building contractors who suffered from chemical over-exposure because the building was not fitted with central ‘ventilation yet’ and the building had no opening windows to get air into the building so when we got sick most workers never had funds to get medical treatment only available in the US at that time.

                My friends over in Toronto now have a clinic to treat workers with Chemical poisoning too at Womens college hospital bless them;

                My Point being that if i was funded with a trip to a US clinic then my health would most certainly have been restored then and that was the power of funding people with what it would do to facilitate proper medical care.

                Since being back home in Napier in 1998 I have been paying for my medical treatment from chronic chemical poisoning ever since.

        • UncookedSelachimorpha

          The huge NZ Precariat consists of poorly-paid workers who live on both welfare and badly-paid work. Switching between the two as rubbish jobs run out, or working and still needing food grants and other assistance (I know plenty of people in this position).

          The division between "working" and "welfare" is not that clear for many people these days.

          • Sacha

            Yet look at public sentiment. Our overlords continue to succeed at pitting the 99% against one another.

            • UncookedSelachimorpha

              Absolutely – their master stroke.

              And you are right that more beneficiaries voting would be a great move in the right direction.

        • gsays

          That is the problem, they stopped being being a workers party with the tory reforms in the '80s. Firmly a middle class outfit despite the platitudes about dealing with children living in poverty.

          "If beneficiaries voted more then the calculations might be different." That is as cold, heartless and cynical as I expect from the Laura Norder, 'Crusher' type.

    • Labour needs to stay above 40%, and it has failed to do so.

      It has? One poll known for underestimating Labour's support says so, which isn't much of a basis for you to boldly assert that as a fact.

  3. A 3

    This is both inspiring (that MSD has some level of innovation in it) and deeply offensive. I can see where they are coming from..but…the gamification of budgeting the unbudgetable… ffs!

    Inspired by "free" cash giveaways by payday lenders, a government digital start-up is trialling paying people to complete money skills lessons.

    The Ministry of Social Development's Spring digital start-up is designed to improve the money skills and wellbeing of "hard to reach" families who are struggling financially, but aren't seeking help from budgeting agencies.

    In return for completing online learning tasks Spring users earn "SpringCoin" which they can swap for vouchers to spend at Countdown, Pak n' Save, Four Square, The Warehouse and Z Energy.


    I can just imagine the dumbed down task completion process brought to you by the same organisation that paid tens of thousands for phamplets so devoid of intelligence they disclose nothing at all.

    What really rips my nighty is that a businesses will make govt bank doing this when the money needs to go to the people who need it. Please excuse me for a few..I need to unclench my jaw.

    • greywarshark 3.1

      Better jaw, jaw, than war, war! And if you look at the way people are being deliberately denied the basics of life they need, it is a sort of war.

      For instance the care workers having a little strike over the swingeing conditions at the Masonic Fancy Name care facility in Lower Hutt? and are conducting it with Et Tu support. Some of the workers are being offered? an employment agreement where they get hours of work, some sort of basic roster, but also there's more…they have to be on call for whenever the facility has need of them.

      In essence they can't live their human lives, they are at the behest of their employer and can't make plans to do anything with family, friends, appointments, rest and recovery as needed, high days and holidays, which can all have to be curtailed by a demand to work and be on call within a 24/7 basis. The managers don't work those hours for that money, no way.

      Flexible, malleable, plasticine workforce is what the employers can demand under our callous neoliberal no-regulations political system set up to allow despots to take control of their workers lives. And large numbers of NZ people don't care, they are not affected. They are going on one of those cruises in fullpage advertisements of the papers, it's SEP.

  4. xanthe 4

    "Labour plummets"

    Yet another great argument for the disestablishment of tvnz and the creation of public funded news service

    • Sacha 4.1

      An argument against allowing media companies to buy polls that they then feel a need to stir some drama from. Don't some countries ban them?

      • Gosman 4.1.1

        Yes, ban news that you don't like the look of. That works well in places like China (for the ruling party at least).

        • Kevin

          Working pretty well in the USA as well Gos.

          • Gosman

            How does it work in the USA?

            • Kevin

              Deliberate misrepresentation of facts is probably a good place to start.

              Attributing quotes to one person when they came from another done purely to cast doubt over a candidates political campaign.

              There are plenty. I can make you up a list when I get home tonight if required.

        • Sacha

          It's not news, and other places have decided it's harmful to their democracy. By all means have public polls, just not funded by those with an interest in sensationalising them.

          • Gosman

            Who gets to decide which polls are okay or not? Will you stop political parties from carrying out polling to determine whether their political approach is working?

            • Sacha

              Publishing polls, not conducting them. The Electoral Commisison would be a logical body to do that on behalf of everyone in our context.

              Media and parties would still have a go at spinning a narrative around the results, but the media outlets would be under less pressure to favour commercial imperatives over editorial standards.

              • Gosman

                Show me a country where that works

                • Stuart Munro.

                  It used to work here until the plutocrats decided to cheat everyone. In the old state broadcasting days the unprofessional bias that characterises muppets like Garner would have cost him his job – nowadays he probably has to be an empty-headed Tory sycophant just to keep his job.

    • Anne 4.2

      "Labour plummets"

      Yeah that gave me a chuckle. Down 1% from the last CB poll is plummeting? They haven't noted that National has "plummeted" too – down 1% from the last poll.

      • Sacha 4.2.1

        'Plummeted' by a fraction of the margin of error. #pffft

        • greywarshark

          Perhaps plummets is code for the way that Labour is allocating money for better services, infrastucture but not as much as some would like, ie they are distributing not full-sized 'plums' but 'plummets'! In our convoluted world, every word can have two meanings. Let's choose this one!

    • cleangreen 4.3

      xanthe Fully agree with you 100% at 4

      'Time for creation of public funded news service'

    • arkie 5.1

      Why would they?

      German software giant SAP has apologised to New Zealand after a massive data breach revealed the details of gun owners’ names, addresses and firearms.

      “As part of new features intended for the platform, security profiles were to be updated to allow certain users to be able to create citizens records,” a spokesperson explained.

      “A new security profile was incorrectly provisioned to a group of 66 dealer users due to human error by SAP… We unreservedly apologise to New Zealand Police and the citizens of New Zealand for this error.”


      • Gosman 5.1.1

        You've never worked in IT have you? If the NZ Police outsourced this to SAP they should have insisted on detailed security testing by SAP. On top of this they should also have performed User acceptance testing of the system changes by their own IT team which should have focused on areas like this. The NZ Police and by default this government) cannot get away from the ownership of this stuff up so easily.

        • arkie

          I don't care.

          The user-error occurred at SAP, they apologised and acknowledged their mistake. Do you make a habit of assuming responsibility for others actions?

        • AB

          Bah – sounds like it's you that's never worked in IT Gosman. Neither a statement in the non-functional specifications about security, nor User Acceptance Testing (UAT) are any guarantee that breaches won't occur. Normally UAT doesn't go anywhere near the sort of actions that can result in exploiting weaknesses. An even a well-designed system is still susceptible to human error on the developer or admin side – which SAP seem to be saying it was.

          Your reflexive finger-pointing at the government is oh so childish and ideological. Perhaps instead the lesson is that the private sector is inherently wasteful, inefficient, lazy and sloppy because profit-taking rots their brains and makes them behave badly? Or maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration – though the evidence would seem to point that way at least in part.

          • Gosman

            This was a standard set up of a new security group. As part of testing this set up I would expect it to be checked that the people in the group did not have more rights than they should have. This should be looked at from both a Security testing point of view AND Acceptance testing. Acceptance testing should always be carried out by members of the organisation receiving the service (or at least ownership of the testing should be kept within the receiving organisation).

          • greywarshark

            New things can start out clean and sharp, but as things seem to be going well and no-one is looking too hard, the organic things comes in and they age. As we age and our bodies renew themselves but not as they were Scotty, bits of our chromosomes? drop off and we end up looking well-used. The private sector has probably been assessed by some acute observer, who has found that within say five years anything is only 80% as good as within it's first six months. And with no regulations, or poorly enforced ones, private enterprise will sink to its lowest level of quality that enables the highest efficiency and profit.

        • Psycho Milt

          …they should have insisted on detailed security testing by SAP. On top of this they should also have performed User acceptance testing of the system changes by their own IT team which should have focused on areas like this.

          They should, and for all we know they did. Nobody's yet come up with a UAT plan that guarantees nothing can go wrong.

          • Gosman

            This is not some obscure edge case scenario. From all accounts this was the incorrect set up of a new security group which allowed members of that group to access data they shouldn't have been able to see. That is basic level stuff.

        • Wensleydale

          Labour are also directly responsible for climate change, the unrest in the Middle-East, ebola, the Australian bushfires and male-pattern baldness.

          That Jacinda. She's a menace.

          • mac1

            She's responsible for all those bald or #1 pates running NZ business?

            I bet she's also responsible for the lack of ties, to show that subtle informality of expensive business suit with the hard-working lack of tie image. And the brown pointy shoes!

            Where is Bob Jones when we need his dress sense code?

          • Jilly Bee

            Ha, ha Wensleydale – great comment. My random reading of some Facebook media pages would somehow indicate that most of the hoi poloi who do comment certainly think along such lines.cheeky It often makes me want to throw my keyboard at the screen. So far I've resisted the urge.

    • Will someone in the Government take responsibility for this screw up?

      That depends. Was someone in the government responsible for it?

      • Gosman 5.2.1

        Ummm… yeah. The Minister of Police is responsible for ensuring the Police's IT systems are up to scratch and not vulnerable.

        • Sacha

          Bit more Ministerial/operational separation in that portfolio than others.

        • Psycho Milt

          The Minister of Police is responsible for ensuring the Police's IT systems are up to scratch and not vulnerable.

          So, you believe Nash is to blame for not inspecting SAP's update code for this app before allowing them to install it? Or is he to blame for allowing the Police to outsource app development rather than requiring them to develop software in-house?

          • Gosman

            No, he's responsible for the fact the NZ Police DIDN'T do these checks properly (if at all).

            • Incognito

              Many people of the Right, as well as of the Left, seem to think that the chain of command is a straight line to the top but they forget about or overlook management and institutional(ised) processes and procedures. No wonder so many ‘discussions’ here are anything but.

              • RedLogix

                Nonetheless this was a very serious error; someone senior needs to take responsibility. I agree it doesn't warrant the resignation of the Minister, but clearly the oversight of this project has failed. A head needs to roll.

                Data security around gun ownership is paramount if legal gun owners are to have any confidence in the system and this incident has been severely compromising.

          • Sacha

            If only Nash hadn't allowed his coding skills to get so rusty. Let's not even get started on his weapons handling.

    • mauī 5.3

      Gosh… gun dealers now have access to gun owners addresses, guns owned, etc. Goodness what next!!

      Ambulance officers will probably soon have access to all their patient's medical information… This is an outrage!!

    • RedLogix 5.4

      I'm with Gosman on this. This kind of security breach was predicted months ago by a highly qualified friend. For legal gun owners this is of critical concern, it takes no imagination to see what would happen if gun ownership details were to ever get into the wrong hands.

      This represents a serious hit on the credibility of the new gun ownership regime. A regime closely identified with Arden herself.

      • Stuart Munro. 5.4.1

        The list went out to gun retailers like Tipple – no surprise it leaked – nothing to do with the government though. Those anti-terrorist powers? People handing out lists of guns and addresses probably qualify.

        • RedLogix

          My friend advises me that far more than one person has seen this data.

          Gosman is right, security had to be the primary concern here, and someone needs to be held accountable for this failure at a very senior level.

        • McFlock

          Seems to me that this indicates gun dealers shouldn't be trusted with higher privileges than other people.

          • RedLogix

            To be fair it was the gun dealers themselves who were largely shocked at what they were seeing and reported it to the authorities immediately.

            It is wholly unconvincing for the govt to minimise this incident. This was not some obscure bug or oversight, it was a flat out configuration error of the most basic kind. If this is the level of professionalism and testing going on in this project then some hard oversight questions need to be asked.

            It's quite probable that the damage in this instance has been contained; but we cannot know for certain. Worse still we cannot have much confidence that another such mistake will not happen, and next time the consequences might be much worse.

            I repeat … consider the consequences of a major leak of gun ownership details to fall into criminal hands.

            • McFlock

              I agree it shouldn't have happened, but it was a usergroup assignment error rather than an essential configuration error. SAP screwed up and ticked the wrong box. They didn't e.g. allow sql injection on the form. It's not a globally-accessible hole, it's overprivileging people who were meant to get more access anyway.

              So yes it should have been picked up before release, but I'm not sure how high up that user group change would go. I would have thought the cops would have done some user poking before handing out access to the new group, but this isn't exactly a ministerial-level issue.

              • RedLogix

                Yes someone ticked the wrong box. That should have been picked up before it went live, no if's no buts. I understand the nature of the error, remember I wrote software for large industrial processes most of my career … often on live, running machines. So I'm vividly aware of how easily mistakes happen and I'm not a judgmental person by nature.

                BUT this is the equivalent of a simple software error that could cause an industrial accident, causing damage and death. The leadership on this project should have understood that making a simple config error should NOT lead to a major failure. There should have been multiple layers of protection in place to prevent this from happening. At the prices these guys charge it would the least I would expect.

                • McFlock

                  Definitely would expect better from the vendor.

                  But it's an error that applied to a tenth of a percent of users who had a higher privilege level anyway. It's like if I, in a lowly security hat, had accidentally dragged access to the finance office over to all upper-middle level managers, rather than just the finance manager. Sure, it's something to bollock me over, but one wouldn't expect them to go wandering in the dead of night. Unlike if I'd dragged it over to 20k students and they all got a notification of the change.

                  Not sure what to make of the disagreement over who and how many accessed it, though. If someone's telling lies about the degree of the problem, that's when the shit in this case should start trickling up.

    • cleangreen 5.5

      Ban overseas companies use for data collection should do this..

  5. ianmac 6

    Does it really matter?

    Colin Craig gets compensation and apology from Jordan Williams at Taxpayers' Union over 'false allegations'.


    • Jimmy 6.1

      Wow…Colin Craig actually won something!

      • Wensleydale 6.1.1

        Yeah, but it's an apology from Jordan Williams. It's about as genuinely useful as a balsa wood chair. Sometimes, even when you win… you lose.

    • aj 7.1

      Biden will not drop out. He needs to be kicked out.

    • weka 7.2

      jfc. Best case scenario there is that he and his team are clueless about the politics around both #metoo and the alt right/left conspiracy theories of paedophilia. Not to mention having a sexual predator as current president. Or they don't care. Which makes them incompetent. And creepy.

  6. greywarshark 8

    Brexit news – a really interesting video from Channel 4 News. The sight of the PM rolling plasticine with schoolchildren in an effort to show himself a man of the people, in touch with all levels of society is insulting to those concerned about his tragic lack of concern about the country. And he has been caught out making promises that are totally the opposite to what is the Tory declared policies. He is just a moving mouth being carried by a bulky body like a battering ram at the portals of reason and responsible UK policy.

    Does Boris Johnson understand his own Brexit deal? and there is a look at Labour – what are they saying themselves and doing?

    Channel 4 are having to run a video with some mute partial and some vocal – the mute filled in with explanatory text!
    Channel 4 faces yet another accusation of political bias

  7. cleangreen 9

    Why are NZ media now today having a blackout on the ‘COPS 25 Climate change conference’ going on today in Madrid Spain, – with 125 countries attending along with NZ diplomatic representation?

    Today the National opposition are claiming our PM Jacinda Ardern spends to much time on the world stage; so is that why this media blackout is all about?


  8. greywarshark 10

    I came across this personal input from someone who has visited Assange regularly. Haven't read it all myself yet – am passing it on for information of those who care. (Published 27 Sept 2019)


    • gsays 10.1

      That is hard reading.

      Even if he did what he is accused of doing in Switzerland, surely folk must realise enough is enough.

      Or is it that folks round these parts have chosen a side, and cast a willing ignorance to this person's plight.

      I also sincerely wonder whether I am not left enough to accept BIG government, and all the evil it does, that Assange helped to reveal?

    • gsays 11.1

      Excellent, now all we need to do is get rid of domestic donations and implement only state funding of political parties.

      In the interests of democracy.

  9. greywarshark 12

    Does this look dangerous to you? Is it those for the environment that is practical for its purpose v those who like uniform green deserts as the bees call grass (or would if they could translate buzz to language)?

    However, Auckland Transport have sent Dee a letter outlining the legal requirements for berms, which include restrictions from planting anything edible or having vegetation more than 60cm tall, and must have shallow roots. Isn't that nice Auckland Transport organising everything for us as they picture how we should be. Do they seem ubiquitious?

    But I thought a berm went between the road and the footpath, that's where mine is. And children have been chalking all over the footpath – surely there is a law against that!


  10. mac1 13

    So, if a 1% fall in Labour (and National) CB poll results is 'plummeting' then our banks' interest rates have plummeted, our unemployment rate has plummeted, crime victimisation has plummeted, use of plastic bags has plummeted, ownership of military style weapons has plummeted.

    If a rise in 1% or more is 'rocketing', a fair antonym for 'plummeting', then Mana in Mahi numbers are rocketing, both business and consumer confidence (Q 6 answer in the House today) are rocketing, with 80,000 new jobs employment is rocketing, wages at 4% have sky-rocketed, primary produce revenue has rocketed, support for school maintenance is rocketing.

    Fuller figures for Labour's achievements can be found here. https://www.labour.org.nz/progress-2yrs-2019

  11. greywarshark 14

    The Court name suppression thing is definitely due for an overhaul. Here is an example in a bizarre case. It is hard not to get paranoid these days – there seem to be so many who are trying to take people down in some way.


    A victim of the former financial executive caught stealing rabbits says he spent thousands of dollars on alarms, flood lights and security cameras to protect his surviving animals.

    "He stole six of my rabbits, most of which were pets, one of which was a mother with a litter that subsequently died," the man told the Herald.

    "It broke my heart, and to have him get name suppression for so long … it made me sick."

    • mac1 15.1

      Watch out, Simon.

      The argument that this is an OK hand sign doesn't fit the context. I'd have said that a thumbs up signal would have been more appropriate to express approval. The signal connected to the wearing of a Trump support hat is a good reason why William Wood has been a wise enough 17 year old to drop this photo.

      He'll also learn to watch his back………..

    • Macro 15.2

      Bloody hell! The last thing we want here. OK those kids are still young and impressionable, but if that is what they are impressed by, then there is no way we want them anywhere near the seat of government. Palmerston North – do your duty.

      • gsays 15.2.1

        C'mon cut the kid some slack, he is at least wearing a red tie…

        Even if one of his mates is a redneck, surely that is better than the likes Jo Hayes.

        • Macro

          You mean like this guy in a suit wearing a red tie?


          Yeah Jo Hayes is pretty bad – but if he associates with low life – chances are his ideas are pretty similar. So no I don't cut him any slack.

    • Anne 15.3

      From the link:

      Bridges said Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has made the same hand gestures as well: "I don't think there is a lot in it, it's not a biggie".

      Bridges is a liar and he is sick to infer the prime-minister is sympathetic to white supremacist ideology because that is exactly what he is doing no matter how strenuously he tries to deny it.

      How low can he go.

    • pat 15.4

      has anyone considered how abnormal it is for a 17 year old to wish to be an MP….at 17?

  12. greywarshark 16

    That saying that you can never hit bottom when the stupidity of people is measured is a counter to the ideal of a democracy where everyone has an education and is capable of making reasoned decisions on behalf of themselves and/or the country. It is a conundrum.

    This caught my eye. Baldwin Street in Dunedin has been in contention with a street in Wales for being the steepest in Guinness Book records. The use of Lime scooters in Dunedin's Baldwin St is already under scrutiny as the company and police try to curb reckless behaviour on the street. 11 January 2019 One person has already been filmed riding down the steepest street in the world since the scooters arrived a day ago.

    • McFlock 16.1

      Not sure the scooters are as dangerous as idiots who can't drive cars. Especially front wheel automatics – they never change down, and start wheelspinning near the top. Then the drivers shit themselves because they get psyched out and fail to simply reverse down a straight slope.

      But then I have to bloody slalom between the tourists every day as they wander all over the road, oblivious to traffic on a steep hill. Even though it's advertised as a steep road. Vexes me greatly.

  13. greywarshark 17

    Police in Dunedin have found that some people find begging lucrative and the street a place to live and sleep and prefer it. How common is this in Dunedin?

    Some were choosing the street, despite having accommodation options available, as they could make up to $200 a day from begging and the cruise ship season marked a notable increase in the practice, he said.


    • McFlock 17.1

      probably no coincidence, as "cruise ship season" is the summer combined with the christmas period.

      So yeah – more people on the streets in dunedin.

  14. mac1 18


    As a person now having had four separate diagnoses for cancer, all successfully treated, under successive governments, I welcome this move.

    I hope that all parties will support this agency in its set up and work. Cancer, like any disease, has no respect for political affiliation, income or social views.

  15. greywarshark 19

    A woman was reported as missing in India by her family. She was being brutally raped, murdered and burned.

    Three policemen have also been suspended for failing to act quickly when the woman’s disappearance was registered by her family on Wednesday, with the officers instead suggesting she had just gone off with a man and turning the family away from the police station. Before she was attacked, the woman had called her family at about 9pm to say her scooter was immobile and she was stranded by the road and scared.


    Noticeable in the story is how quickly the men decided to pick off this woman on her own, tell her lies, pretend to be helpful and treat her with consideration when all the time they had decided to use her in a vile way, and protect themselves from justice or vengeneance. Also the way that the police wished to have nothing to do with this crime. Perhaps it is regarded as unclean, something that a decent man would not be involved with. It speaks volumes about the sexism and classism in India, and they may also be a shame-based society, as appears so often in the Middle East.

    It is not the first time that a really horrific sexual attack on a woman in India has made the news; some men descended on a student travelling in a bus with her boyfriend which ended with her death. In a village some young girls were hanged from a tree, I think for having been raped which was felt to bring shame on the village.

    A young and trusting NZ woman was murdered while visiting India some years ago. A taxi driver took her to a hotel with a similar name to the one she had booked so she was misled and disoriented. A little while afterwards she disappeared. Her father became alarmed and went to India to look for her. After some serious detective work her body was found. A group of men were involved in scams involving female tourists. Some of the women had had sex with them, and the men no doubt had found their roles lucrative and satisfying. This young woman would not have been available for sex. The father had a number of trips to India to first find her and bring her home, and then to have the men brought to justice.

    With all the Indian men coming to this country there will be a percentage of the young men who have this awful blankness in their moral sense towards women. We should be aware of this, and also about unacceptable factors in some arranged marriages. An educated man may use himself as a lure for a family with funds seeking a good marriage for their daughter, who will pay a bride price or dowry. After the marriage she may suffer an unfortunate accident, leaving the man a widower. He can then look for another wife, and repeat the practice, and his family would secure a good boost to their wealth from such a practice.

    • Karol121 19.1

      Remember though greywarshark, that a lot of these Indian men end up as New Zealand Corrections ("prison") Officers and managers, employed or formerly employed by both the Dept of Corrections and SERCO.

      Chatting with some of them in a "business end" environment, they will insist that both actions and in-actions bring consequences, and that women "ask for it" going out non-escorted at night, or by being too flirtatious.

      Perhaps more laws could be introduced by the National Party (if they get in next year) to make it illegal in New Zealand to be a woman alone under such circumstances.

      You see, there can be a law constructed and tailor made for just about any situation. It just takes the will power and the right amount of insistence.

      Why challenge the viewpoint of so many Indians with a population which is now around 1.4 billion?

      Probably most of them will tell you that there is both safety and legitimacy in numbers.

      • greywarshark 19.1.1

        I recognise your cognition karol121. So many people can't be wrong eh. And India very religious, lots of parades and flowers. But what about the heart and meaning of the belief, can it be put aside when it suits?

        Just musing. Women need to be aware of the enduring wish to take male 'privilege' over any social controls. And then too their own wish to be admired that shows up in choice of clothes etc. Add to that the inability to understand other's feelings and thoughts even when we speak the same language; communication classes teach how we misunderstand often.

        I think I read somewhere that all great changes are brought about by a small group. So that makes it easy to control the pace of change and who by. Thank god for the young ones getting onto pressing for change. I don't think we are bigger conformists than many other cultures but it is stunning how we go on with rationalisations, lazy thinkers, self-centred, materialists out of balance.

        • Karol121


          Lazy thinking and out of balance for materially gainful purpose.

          I've been guilty of that occasionally myself, greywarshark.

          Most societies are preconditioned to reassertion and re-enforcement of belief and even perceived ideas, fueled with the concept of majority being the more right (whatever that "right" is at any one time).

          Difficult to escape from it. Political democracy based on largest vote validates the notion that we at least (often begrudgingly) accept it as a pre-condition.

          On challenges using younger generational ideas, I think that (when not used as a destructive weapon of choice) a clash of cultures is both natural and healthy.

          Challenging the beliefs of others when what they assert leaves many questions unanswered, but not doing so deliberately to one's own detriment.

          An alt choice to avoid one to one head banging, blamelessly deliberating on just y people do and y they don't.

    • McFlock 20.1

      nice point. They might actually have to start introducing impairment tests.

      • greywarshark 20.1.1

        Or lighten up except where absolutely necessary and remember how long traces stay in the body. We have had cases of airline staff still hung over in the early morning as they make their way to the airport for early starts.

        More self-control and appreciation of what the body can stand, and what fitness the job requires would make people limit their drug taking.

        • McFlock

          Except that impairment tests also catch basic fatigue and generalised incompetence, which I suggest are more frequent and more serious dangers when people are operating heavy machinery.

      • bwaghorn 20.1.2

        I bit of hear say I got the other day is affco (talleys)are importing Asian freezing workers .

        One of the excuses is that a lot of applicants fail or refuse pre employment tests.

    • Stuart Munro. 20.2

      They never run short of punitive bullshit. They'll demand your social media access or test clothing for P residues or introduce spurious psych questionnaires – none of it relevant to the work.

  16. Karol121 21

    Fess up if it was one of you, or at least enlighten me with your knowledge.

    C'mon you guys (and gals),

    Tell me. Who REALLY shot JFK?

  17. greywarshark 22

    Females are dropping their standards of behaviour along with other things. Women will not be able to complain about being put upon in a sexual way as more and more stories of irresponsible and immoral behaviour from them comes out in the media.

    There has been a female teacher in Marlborough who has brazenly assaulted boys there for a while until finally someone brought the story out; and she was/is married. This sports coach is married also. She sounds a nasty piece of work.


    Water polo coach at prestigious South African school engaged in sexual misconduct with 'at least five pupils'

    Married teacher and former model Fiona Viotti slept with her students and sent them explicit photos and videos, which were circulated on social media and even made their way to PornHub.

    The 30-year-old resigned from the $15,730-a-year (R150,000) Bishops Diocesan School in Cape Town in October amid allegations of an inappropriate relationship with an 18-year-old student.

    Ms Viotti, the niece of former Springboks coach Nick Mallett, reportedly sent threatening messages to the student via WhatsApp when he tried to break off the relationship.

    • Karol121 22.1

      Assertive and occasionally sexually aggressive woman are nothing new.

      It is generally recognised that when push comes to shove, in relation to sexual harassment allegations over recent times (more especially in relation to the workplace) most complaints do usually get taken on face value, almost as if those reviewing such complaints are trying to indirectly lend support to the myriad of woman who've had a justifiable reason to make an allegation, but who either haven't come forward or haven't been able to come forward.

      But complaints by males against females in this regard, are very often simply disregarded or treated as being silly.

      Essentially, I guess we all need to ask ourselves just what if any real damage is caused by woman adopting an active (as opposed to passive role). To my mind, none. Simply a challenge to ideals or beliefs held by many, and a change of perspective perhaps.

      That is in relation to sexual assertiveness, but in relation to predatory sexual behaviour, well that is entirely a different matter.

      I recall reading of one case where a woman teacher deliberately conceived a child, apparently in an attempt to emotionally trap a young male student.

      But I also recall reading where younger school boys were engaged in "upskirt" photo sessions of a relatively attractive teacher, and where she was really surprised by the behaviour revealed to her later. But boys will be boys, and I bet that many of them thought that Christmas had come early with such trove of pics, until they got caught pink handed.

      In relation to minors, consider both the sexually transmitted diseases aspect and the conception aspect. Most girls aren't physically capable of any healthy form of child bearing during adolescence and are unlikely to be emotionally prepared, most boys aren't psychologically geared up to early fatherhood.

      There are many other ramifications as well. Teacher crush yes, teacher promoting bed romp, no. Very naughty.

      In relation to both male and female promiscuity and any "lowering" of a standard, perhaps simply a connected 21st century alteration is all it is.

      For the record, I am male by the way.

      What's important is putting things into perspective in relation to human physiology and especially comfort mechanisms born out of one of the most basic, inbuilt human drivers, which is that of procreation, or continuation of the species. Along with all of the ramifications, whether they be pleasurable or whether they arrive with undesired complications.

  18. Eco maori 23

    Kia Ora Breakfast.

    We do have to make big changes and accelerat the changes to a carbon neutral World. Not spend billion producing MORE CARBON.

    We need export dollars to change our society to carbon neutral we can not kill the golden goose. The least disruptive move is to chase Green transport and green energy at the same time do things to minimise our farmers carbon footprint. Aotearoa is in the best location to make a society Carbon neutral in the World.

    Ka kite Ano

  19. Eco maori 24

    I have a hunch the SIS sandflys are going to try and set me up on fulse charges today very soon

  20. Eco maori 25

    All the country's that have produced the least carbon are going to suffer the most from Global warming and Sea level rising. Hence they should be compensated for their losses. The cost will be a drop in the Ocean compared to the wealth Western nations have harvested from the World.

    Small island countries in the Pacific are demanding greater commitments at this week's Madrid climate talks, saying what's been done so far is far from enough.

    For example, the Pacific Island states have been facing higher numbers than the global average, which is of course very alarming for them because they're low-lying For example, the Pacific Island states have been facing higher numbers than the global average, which is of course very alarming for them because they're low-lying

    Ka kite Ano link below.


  21. Eco maori 26

    The A growing economy is a waste off time if you can not breathe the Air. A clean and green environment. Keeping our clean seas and Awa is of the utmost importances to our mokopuna future.

    Pursuing economic growth at the expense of the environment is no longer an option as Europe faces “unprecedented” challenges from climate chaos, pollution, biodiversity loss and the overconsumption of natural resources, according to a report from Europe’s environmental watchdog.

    Europe was reaching the limits of what could be achieved by gradual means, by making efficiencies and small cuts to greenhouse gas emissions, with “transformational” change now necessary to stave off the impacts of global heating and environmental collapse, warned Hans Bruyninckx, executive director of the European Environment Agency

    Marginal efficiency gains are not enough – they are not working to bring down emissions,” he said. “There is also a higher cost to marginal efficiency gains, if we keep investing in that. If we focus on making current technologies more efficient, there are limits. If we stick to what we know, it may seem easy but it doesn’t work in the long term.”

    The EEA scored 35 key measures of environmental health, from greenhouse gases and air pollution, waste management and climate change to soil condition and birds and butterfly species, and found only six in which Europe was performing adequately.

    “Incremental changes have resulted in progress in some areas but not nearly enough to meet our long-term goals,” said Bruyninckx. Further marginal changes would grow only more expensive, he predicted, making large-scale change necessary. “We already have the knowledge, technologies and tools we need to make key production and consumption systems such as food, mobility and energy sustainable

    Ka kite Ano link below.


  22. Eco maori 27

    Here is a fool who is trying to force other Nato countries to pour billions of dollars into weapons that kill poor people and thinks his achievement is great. This Orange Redneck should be kicked out of Office. I can see all the dirtiest tricks he is pulling to load his coffers up with hundreds of billions shorting the stock market ect. I know who is to blame for bad shit happening to me TRUMP. THE world need to spend billion to protect our mokopuna future fool

    Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg cited increased spending commitments on defence by European allies and Canada, saying: "Nato is the most successful alliance in history because we've changed as the world has changed."

    On Tuesday, he said those nations had added $130bn (£100bn) to defence budgets since 2016, and that this number would increase to $400bn by 2024. Mr Trump has frequently and forcefully criticised how much other allies spend on defence

    Ka kite Ano link below


  23. Eco maori 28

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    I don't think Pharmac should change drug brands on people that's playing with people's lives.

    I not impressed with Trumps actions either.

    Ka kite Ano.

  24. Eco maori 29

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Tauranga Whenua the gold Kiwi fruit looks great from here the gold Kiwifruit is a great export product in big demand.

    Its awesome that heaps of people want to learn Te reo Maori in Taramaki Makaru.

    The government discriminated against Tangata Whenua and other cultures is crap. Some are still doing it right this minute.

    Ka kite Ano

  25. Eco maori 30

    Kia Ora Breakfast.

    Ya trump is going to get what he deserves kicked out of The White House the whole World is amazed at the way he is using the most powerful job in the world to line his hip pockets.

    That's is cool Taramaki Makaru starting A new Aotearoa thing of collecting food waste.

    There is a lot of things that mitigates the production of green house gases that has been used for 20 years around the world that Aotearoa could start doing.

    Yes that is awful I bet he was brown.

    Im busy getting my mokopuna ready for school and dropping them off mind my grammar.

    Ka kite Ano

  26. Eco maori 31

    COP 25: UN climate change conference

    Climate crisis is 'challenge of civilisation', says pope

    Pontiff calls on COP 25 leaders to show political will to safeguard healthy

    Pope Francis at his weekly general audience in the Vatican City on Thursday.

    The climate emergency is a “challenge of civilisation” requiring sweeping changes to economic systems, but political leaders have not done enough, the pope has said in a message to governments meeting at the annual climate summit in Madrid.

    “We must seriously ask ourselves if there is the political will to allocate with honesty, responsibility and courage, more human, financial and technological resources [to the climate crisis],” he said, in the pontifical message, which was welcomed by activists.

    Climate crisis: what is COP and can it save the world?

    Read more

    “Numerous studies tell us it is still possible to limit global warming. To do this we need a clear, far-sighted and strong political will, set on pursuing a new course that aims at refocusing financial and economic investments toward those areas that truly safeguard the conditions of a life worthy of humanity on a healthy planet for today and tomorrow.

    Ka kite Ano

  27. Eco maori 32

    Link for above post my devices is being stuffed with I thank the Pope for protecting our mokopuna future.


  28. Eco maori 33

    This is what Global Warming is doing to our environment burning it.

    New Zealand's glaciers are turning red – and it's because of Australia's bushfires

    By Gianluca Mezzofiore, CNN

    Glaciers in Mount Aspiring National Park on New Zealand's South Island have turned pinkish-red from dust and particles blown over from Australia's bush fires.

    Glaciers in Mount Aspiring National Park on New Zealand's South Island have turned pinkish-red from dust and particles blown over from Australia's bush fires.

    (CNN)One of the most startling consequences of the bushfires that are still raging across Australia, is that they have turned some of New Zealand's famed glaciers red and pink.

    Travel photographer and blogger Liz Carlson snapped the pictures of the discolored snow-capped glaciers on November 28 while on a helicopter flight around Mount Aspiring National Park, in New Zealand's South Island.

    "After we flew deep into the park around the Kitchener Glacier, I could really see how red it was, and it was shocking, I've never seen anything like it before," Carlson told CNN. Ka kite Ano link below.


  29. Eco maori 34

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    There are not many people who can not be turned rotten Kris.

    Mana Wahine.

    Ka kite Ano

  30. Eco maori 35

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Awsome a new engineering centre at a university in Taramaki Makaru I hope that heaps of Pacific people will get a great education from the $280 million facilities.

    Te ohu I read that there was a problem with the Whare returning. Yes they play tangata whenua against each other I see it all the time. And yes the Rangatahi are not as respectful to Te kau matuta as when I was younger.????????????.

    Looks like the winner of Matariki is making his views on the way Tangata Whenua are being treated .

    That's awesome Maori business Ono pop up Shop is going Mana that gives me a sore face.

    Ka kite Ano

  31. Eco maori 36

    The world must cut polluting our futures environment we must cut the world’s carbon footprint in half within 10 years or our earth that is a miracle will turn in a hell hole.

    Paris climate deal: world not on track to meet goal amid continuous emissions

    Slowdown this year in rising greenhouse gases does not negate long-term trend, finds carbon budget analysis

    UN Climate Change Conference, COP25, in Madrid

    Carbon dioxide emissions rose weakly this year as the use of coal declined but natural gas took up the slack, a comprehensive study of the global “carbon budget” has found.

    The rise in emissions was much smaller than in the last two years, but the continued increase means the world is still far from being on track to meet the goals of the Paris agreement on climate change, which would require emissions to peak then fall rapidly to reach net-zero by mid-century.

    Emissions for this year will be 4% higher than those in 2015, when the Paris agreement was signed. Governments are meeting this week and next in Madrid to hammer out some of the final details for implementing the Paris deal and start work on new commitments to cut emissions by 2030. But the new report shows the increasing difficulty of that task.

    Ka kite Ano link below.


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