Open mike 03/04/2011

137 comments on “Open mike 03/04/2011 ”

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1. mouse 1

   3 April 2011 at 6:31 am

   This is discraceful… How does NZ Inc benefit from this arrangment…>

   “SECRET PAPERS reveal the government has allowed fishermen from poor countries to be exploited in New Zealand waters.

   Workers are fishing in rusting boats turned into high seas sweatshops that take large parts of the country’s $1.4 billion-a-year catch.

   The government papers reveal that thousands of men from poor areas are beaten and forced to work for days without rest, earning between $260 and $460 a month before paying much of it over to “agents”.

   Files obtained under the Official Information Act show the government has known about the problem for some time.”

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4841777/Slavery-at-sea-exposed
   • RedLogix 1.1

     3 April 2011 at 7:37 am

     This is nothing new.. I’ve an acquaintance who worked for decades as a fishing captain before he got a degree and came ashore permanently; and he full of nothing but contempt for the whole fisheries process, from one end to the other.

     On the other hand he tells me this sort of thing is only getting worse. It’s kiwi money, and kiwi resource is directly feeding this evil. It’s time to end this ugly amoral business.

     (It’s also an object lesson to all those idiot RWNJ’s who bleat on about how employment regulations are so harmful to business.)
     • PeteG 1.1.1

       3 April 2011 at 8:12 am

       This isn’t about the adequacy of our employment regulations, it’s about deliberately avoiding our regulations altogether by contracting overseas owned and manned boats, in contrast to seasonal agricultural workers coming here who fit within our regulations.

       Turning a blind eye to the exploitation of foreign fishermen is disgraceful.
       • RedLogix 1.1.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 8:22 am

         Over the years we’ve had RWNJ’s here at The Standard arguing against virtually every employment law… arguing in each case for their weakening or elimination. In every instance they come down on the side of tilting the law against the worker… arguing that ‘fair-minded’ employers will from the goodness of their hearts look after their workers.

         Yeah right.

         This article describes exactly what happens when you take this line of thought to it’s logical, and very real, conclusion.
         • PeteG 1.1.1.1.1

           3 April 2011 at 8:32 am

           How many righties do you think are in favour of total de-regulation along with total removal of all benefits and a totally non-restricted business environment?

           It seems that some here, if they perceive any degree of rightishness of a poster, perpetually try and paint them as being in total agreement with big bruv and Redbaiter – who, incidentally, disagree with each other far more than they agree.
           • MrSmith 1.1.1.1.1.1

             3 April 2011 at 9:15 am

             “How many righties do you think are in favour of total de-regulation along with total removal of all benefits and a totally non-restricted business environment?”
             PeteG we hardly have any regulations compared to the rest of the world now.
             http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings

             In my opinion you build things from the bottom UP! look after the people that do the real work then it flows through to you and the rest of society. If you are having trouble with your employes as you mentioned in an earlier tread then maybe you should take a look in the mirror as you hired them after all.
           • felix 1.1.1.1.1.2

             3 April 2011 at 9:26 am

             Pete if you’ve ever voiced an opinion in support of workers’ rights, now would be the time to link to it.
             • PeteG …

               3 April 2011 at 9:39 am

               I’m a worker and part of my work involves dealing with employment law, I’m well aware of workers rights and in NZ we have them about right, although a few tweaks wouldn’t hurt (and the latest tweaks are hardly likely to hurt any more).

               Have you ever voiced an opinion on employer rights? Now would be the time to say something about them.
               • felix …

                 3 April 2011 at 9:55 am

                 Why’s that Pete?

                 Have I been pretending that I give a shit about the rights of employers?

                 You’re really struggling today.
   • Jenny 1.2

     3 April 2011 at 8:37 am

     The government papers reveal that thousands of men from poor areas are beaten and forced to work for days without rest, earning between $260 and $460 a month before paying much of it over to “agents”.

     I think that future revelations will reveal that this scandal goes a lot deeper than one industry.

     Despite warnings from the trade union movement, employment arrangements where the wages of foreign work crews are compulsorily paid to agents, was agreed to be written into the legislation of the Free Trade Deal with Communist China to allow New Zealand’s minimum wage laws to be subverted.

     No doubt all these foreign fishing companies have worked out a similar deal with the current government.

     The government was warned by the trade unions that all the feverish gung ho free trade signing could see Kiwi workers languishing on the dole while imported work gangs work under slave like conditions.

     Indeed this is exactly what happened.

     Kiwi sub-contractors laid off their permanent workforces and with the agreement of the government now bring in bring in Filipino work gangs to do the painting on the Transpower overhead high tension pylons.

     Similar schemes are also used in the fruit picking industry, where the agents pick up all the wages. (There have even been cases where the agents not content with being able to pay less than the minimum have skipped off with all the money) The growers of course, are content to let these sort of abuses occur to be able to source the cheap labour.

     For this government, the profits of employers is more important than the welfare of working people.
     • PeteG 1.2.1

       3 April 2011 at 8:51 am

       Jenny, I don’t think this has all just started to happen in the last couple of years. Has it?
       • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 11:05 am

         No, it happened under the previous government as well and the policies that they put in place as well. It still points to the problems that you get when you support the psychopaths in business rather than the workers as all governments in NZ have done for the last few decades. We need to stop doing that as it’s bad for our society.
         • grumpy 1.2.1.1.1

           3 April 2011 at 2:12 pm

           Agree pretty much with you Draco, the fisheries industry has long been a disgrace to NZ and….don’t you mean sociopath??
           • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.1.1

             3 April 2011 at 5:20 pm

             Sociopath and psychopath have pretty much the same meaning. The scary part is that research has shown that 60% of the top people in business are psychopathic and that the majority of them (>90%) vote to the right of the political spectrum (why else do you think I keep calling NACT psychopathic?).
             • RedLogix …

               3 April 2011 at 5:35 pm

               A lot of people do use the terms interchangeably….I know that Tim Field whom I regard as the most useful resource on the topic does. He uses the term ‘The Socialised Psychopath’ or ‘Sociopath’ to cover the case of those high functioning psychopaths who learn to hide their lack of empathy and mimic ordinary behaviour….which they use to very successfully mask their real intentions.

               However I’ve also seen some people use Psychopath as a genetic, inhereted condition with a number of clear pysiological markers such as a lack of a startle reflex affecting about 1% of the population…. while sociopathy is thought of as more of a learned condition covering something like 2-3%.

               The end result is pretty much the same though.
             • grumpy …

               3 April 2011 at 5:40 pm

               Having worked in large corporates in the late 80’s and early 90’s, I’d have to agree with you. Arseholes that hated people got rewarded for doing things that normal people would not.

               We had an HR director who joked about “shooting people” and restructuring and redundancies were just a way of getting rid of the next level who were always a threat to those above.

               Hate people and no conscience – sounds like socio and psychopathic to me too!
2. Cnr Joe 2

   3 April 2011 at 6:37 am

   This smarmy man, this performing P.M nailed it didn’t he? Poor don’t starve in NZ, they eat cockroaches. Elders don’t go without, they cleverly innovate w catfood.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10716810.
   • PeteG 2.1

     3 April 2011 at 8:19 am

     There seems to be some key information missing from that article. It claims:

     “The desperate case of the Bay of Plenty child and his three siblings has been offered as a stark example of the degree of poverty in our communities.

     But also says this without going into details:

     “The boy and his siblings had been removed by Child Youth and Family from the home they shared with their mother about a year ago.”

     Why were they removed? Insufficient money (that could have been immediately alleviated using emergency grants) or insufficient parenting?
   • mickysavage 2.2

     3 April 2011 at 10:35 am

     Welcome PeteG, this morning’s Crosby Textor disinformation shift worker. Hope you have a good employment contract.

     The key bit of information is that A STARVING SIX YEAR OLD IN NEW ZEALAND WAS EATING COCKROACHES TO SURVIVE AND ELDERLY ARE EATING CAT FOOD BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD ANY BETTER. Excuse me for shouting but this is beyond the pale.
     • PeteG 2.2.1

       3 April 2011 at 12:45 pm

       I’d have thought that it was quite important to know why they were eating cockroaches. Don’t you think?
       • RobC 2.2.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 1:08 pm

         Because they were starving. Fuck me.
       • RobC 2.2.1.2

         3 April 2011 at 1:15 pm

         And let me complete the rest of this thread before it gets too un-manageable:

         PeteG: And why were they starving?
         Someone: Because there was no food in the house
         PeteG: And why was there no food in the house?
         Someone: Because their parent(s) probably had no money to pay for it
         PeteG: And why did they have no money? Do they drink too much? Are they problem gamblers? Do they do drugs?

         This is what you do Pete just about every time you post – de-rail a thread by asking semi-pointless questions.

         Seriously. Look at your original post at 8.19:

         Why were they removed? Insufficient money (that could have been immediately alleviated using emergency grants) or insufficient parenting?

         Do you seriously expect anyone (apart from somebody with an intimate knowledge of this particular case) would be able to answer those questions? It’s pissing in the wind of the highest order.

         And by the way, if you read the fucking article, you would see the requirement to get budgeting advice before any emergency handout, so there’s nothing immediate about it.
         • grumpy 2.2.1.2.1

           3 April 2011 at 2:15 pm

           Come on, there are tens of thousands of families getting on quite OK on the DPB without the kids eating cockroaches – I would have thought PeteG’s questions pertinent but obviously you don’t even want to think about them – shows huge concern on your part – eh?
           • RobC 2.2.1.2.1.1

             3 April 2011 at 2:30 pm

             Another one with comprehension problems: it’s not whether the question was pertinent, it is an unanswerable question and thus pointless … it encourages a hypothetical debate full of hot air with no resolution, and PeteG is quite good at kicking those things off.

             And don’t make assumptions about what I may think, or what I am concerned about. You don’t know me, so you don’t have a clue.
             • grumpy …

               3 April 2011 at 2:36 pm

               So the kids are starving because the parent(s) have fritterred away the generous contribution the taxpayer makes each week for the child’s upbringing and you want to make it a political argument.

               CYF have it right – it’s just another example of the child abuse so prevalent amongst certain sectors of society and so readily escused by the Left.

               Must be Paula Bennet’s fault eh?
               • felix …

                 3 April 2011 at 3:03 pm

                 Yeah that’s why being on a benefit is so cool – you have all this free money to just “fritter away” on whatever you like.

                 Fritter on rent, fritter on electricity, fritter on water. Fritter fritter fritter.
                 • grumpy …

                   3 April 2011 at 4:10 pm

                   …fritter on cockroaches – or cockroach fritter?
                   • felix …

                     3 April 2011 at 4:20 pm

                     I’ve never tried cockroach fritter – that’d be a “lifestyle choice”.
                   • grumpy …

                     3 April 2011 at 4:53 pm

                     Hi Felix, but do you think deadbeat parents should impose such a lifestyle choice on a 6 year old?
                 • Deborah Kean …

                   3 April 2011 at 8:08 pm

                   Yes, the frittering on rent is particularly satsifying… and it’s so much fun choosing whether to pay the phone or the power this month!
                   Every shopping trip you can play ‘choice’ – food, or laundry soap?
               • millsy …

                 3 April 2011 at 4:19 pm

                 Like the middle class Christian father who shaved his son’s head for stealing, purely to make him feel bad about his appearance? And tied him up with his ties, and washed his mouth out with soap? (what if that doesnt work? Janola)

                 And the jury who let him off?

                 What about Tracee Pigott, the middle class real estate agent who shoved hot sauce down her foster daughters throat?

                 And the jury who let her off??

                 Why dont you piss off.

                 Its clear that you want to hold down living standards across the board.
                 • grumpy …

                   3 April 2011 at 4:56 pm

                   The jury system is surely a wonderful thing – aren’t you the same Milsy who complained that the Urewera crowd should also be able to access this paragon of our legal system?

                   If you think it’s somehow National’s fault a 6 year old has to eat cockroaches, you’re a sad example of humanity.
                   • millsy …

                     3 April 2011 at 5:03 pm

                     Actually I havent commented on the Urewera XV issue.

                     In any case, I belive that the case I have highlighted above highlights the need to move to an inquistorial system, rather than than an adversarial system, in some cases.

                     In anycase, the case of the children forced to eat cockroach could very well be down to childhood neglect, as you pointed out.
                   • grumpy …

                     3 April 2011 at 5:05 pm

                     Ah, the French system, surprisingly enough, I agree.
                   • millsy …

                     3 April 2011 at 5:25 pm

                     Oh, I just wanted to add – rich/middle class parents abuse their children.

                     The stereotype of the brown beneficary beating their children is just as bad as the jew being a shifty moneylender.
           • Colonial Viper 2.2.1.2.1.2

             3 April 2011 at 2:32 pm

             grumpy there are thousands of families struggling to get by on $50K p.a. let alone half that on the DPB.

             If you only look at the “average” family reliant on the benefit you are going to miss a lot of the awful stuff that is happening in NZ at the bottom end.
             • grumpy …

               3 April 2011 at 2:37 pm

               Yeah, $1000 a week rent in Ak???
3. T 3

   3 April 2011 at 6:41 am

   About renewable energy: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028063.300-wind-and-wave-energies-are-not-renewable-after-all.html
   • Carol 3.1

     3 April 2011 at 6:52 am

     And yet, apparently the speed of winds and height of waves are growing globally on average, especially in the southern hemisphere:

     http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/25/3173587.htm?site=news

     Wind speeds and wave heights over the world’s oceans have been steadily increasing for the past quarter of a century, a new long-term study shows.
     • T 3.1.1

       3 April 2011 at 7:43 am

       “And yet,”

       I don’t see how the two articles are related. The second is about historical trends, and the first is about a conditional* prediction**.

       *The condition that we have enough wind and wave generation to completely replace fossil fuel generation.

       **”Although the winds will not die, sucking that much energy out of the atmosphere in Kleidon’s model changed precipitation, turbulence and the amount of solar radiation reaching the Earth’s surface.”
   • infused 3.2

     3 April 2011 at 7:46 am

     While quite interesting, seems there are quite a few holes in that story.
     • jimmy 3.2.1

       3 April 2011 at 1:21 pm

       Im a bit sceptical of the story as well.

       We build houses and cities which get in the way of the wind and (would presumably) produce heat through the foundations only we dont harvest it. The author seems to take aim at wind and tidal power just because they are designed to harvest energy whereas he leaves every other man-made structure out of the picture.

       Hes right that we can impact on the weather, etc. through man made objects but a wind farm would probably have minimal impacts compared to other structures like the thousands of killometers of black roads and buildings with profiles much more disturbing to the wind currents we also have dotted around the place.
       • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 5:27 pm

         The author seems to take aim at wind and tidal power just because they are designed to harvest energy…

         That might give an idea as to why he does.
     • Draco T Bastard 3.2.2

       3 April 2011 at 1:22 pm

       Quite interesting, there seems to be a few holes in your reasoning.
4. higherstandard 4

   3 April 2011 at 7:24 am

   WTF coming to a preschool near you !

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4841773/Accused-teacher-granted-secrecy
   • RedLogix 4.1

     3 April 2011 at 7:46 am

     In any large system there are always some failures around the margins… some people in some jobs will always not be up to it.

     But what does shock me is this:

     The head teacher of the school said she has been in tears after being forced to write in glowing terms about a woman whom she thinks should not be a teacher.

     And more in a similar vein. Personally if I was that head teacher I would have tended my resignation rather than be forced to write a reference so completely against my professional judgement. Because that letter now has her name signed on the bottom of what is demonstrably a false document.
     • higherstandard 4.1.1

       3 April 2011 at 9:28 am

       Indeed that was the bit that shocked me – there’s something seriously wrong with a system where that can happen.

       On an aside – is Paul East trying to make himself look like Adolf Hilter ? – I flicked on Q+A and though for a second it was a WWII history piece.
       • Deborah Kean 4.1.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 8:19 pm

         I read that article and I am a wee bit puzzled – was it a school or a day care centre? (Really, there should not be any ambiguity, but there is. So many places where toddlers get dumped and essentially warehoused get labelled ‘schools’, and the baby sitters get called ‘teachers’. When they act as this woman did, the reputation of all real teachers suffers.
     • felix 4.1.2

       3 April 2011 at 9:52 am

       Absolutely RL, she should have let the board wear the responsibility before potentially destroying her own professional reputation.

       That she didn’t makes me wonder what sort of leverage the accused teacher possessed that enabled the negotiation of such a generous (considering the known circumstances) settlement.
   • freedom 4.2

     3 April 2011 at 9:39 am

     granted secrecy, a dishonest reference and $12,000.

     between this, the intrusive attack on the Knox Family and yet another aquittal for a Cop despite clear video evidence and the Judge’s own contradictory statement, it is no wonder my head hurts.

     And it is not even 10am, makes one wonder what gems they have planned for the week ahead
     • Bill 4.2.1

       3 April 2011 at 11:05 am

       Did you notice the article goes on to say that “teachers were said to be smacking the students, pulling them around forcefully and putting them into towel cupboards for extended periods.”; not “a teacher”.

       While I’m not saying that stuff didn’t happen, or that at least one incident occured, I’m reminded of extreme scenarios where, for example, young children have claimed to be victims of strange satanic practices while in supervised care and the community and authorities have gone into an hystrical panic that has led to families and communities being ripped apart. (The Shetland Islands some years back) Children are imaginative and don’t appreciate the impact their retelling of fantasy can have in the real world.

       But what I would like to know is why police gave a list of questions for parents to ask their children about? Everybody knows that it’s easy to unwittingly ‘lead’ a child to answer a question in a particular way insofar as they want to give the ‘correct’ answer.
       • grumpy 4.2.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 2:18 pm

         because they haven’t learnt anything since Peter Ellis – a putrid sore in NZ’s history.
5. Tigger 5

   3 April 2011 at 7:39 am

   A nasty litle piece here in Granny about David Parker’s apparent ‘romantic’ link…
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10716817

   Funny, Parker tipped as a leader and suddenly his private life is outed….
   • RedLogix 5.1

     3 April 2011 at 7:51 am

     FFS… this goes too far. The rule is that politicians private lives are off-limits unless there is:

     1. A clear case of hypocrisy (ie I’m a family values man, and yet I’m on my third affair)

     2. There is a clear political aspect to it.

     This instance totally fails both tests. If the MSM have abandoned this long honoured standard then it’s time to strike back… how about some stalking of various senior editors, and press gallery types.. and then splashing whatever around the blogs??

     Nah they’d scream about that wouldn’t they?
     • ianmac 5.1.1

       3 April 2011 at 8:58 am

       But of course there would be no connection with the politics of the Right. This would just happen to be a “human interest” story. Yeah right!
       David did say that he went to public events with her so it is not a secret. But newsworthy? Rubbish.
       • Bob Stanforth 5.1.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 10:57 am

         Wow, huge leap there ianmac – who said it was the right who leaked it? Got proof? It would make even more sense – or maybe the same sense – that someone on the left released this, so as to undermine a contender.

         ASW: protests, as in doth too much, perchance 🙂
     • RobC 5.1.2

       3 April 2011 at 9:06 am

       Geez RL you’ve had three affairs? Lucky SOB, I haven’t even managed one yet 😀
       • grumpy 5.1.2.1

         3 April 2011 at 2:20 pm

         RL – you the man!
   • Redbaron77 5.2

     3 April 2011 at 8:50 am

     The article looks to be essentially a ‘dressed-up’ attack piece. The people don’t deserve to be at the butt-end of a example of news reporting that has lost its ethical compass.
   • PeteG 5.3

     3 April 2011 at 8:56 am

     Kathryn Powley’s private life should be revealed in detail so we can judge if she is hypocritical or has any credibility?
   • William Joyce 5.4

     3 April 2011 at 9:03 am

     This is “out”rageous . It is one piece of gossip that can be expressed in one sentence. To hide and soften the fact that is unwarranted and nasty journalism it employs misdirection to take the reader into considering the relationship affects of a stroke.
     And yet it remains unwarranted and nasty journalism.
     Shameless!
     Kathryn Powley, I hope that you did this because you were told to and needed the work. Consider this your first and only warning else you will be on my list!
     It’s a bit crowded these day by I think I can squeeze you in.
     • Tigger 5.4.1

       3 April 2011 at 9:32 am

       Unless Parker decided to out this himself before the Nats did it?
     • Salsy 5.4.2

       3 April 2011 at 9:34 am

       The herald is really scraping the barrel there huh?
       • Ed 5.4.2.1

         3 April 2011 at 11:01 am

         It appears to be a follow-up article from:
         http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10716611

         The later article is possibly to a reaction to the more generally supportive tone of the first, which may have been against the policy of the paper.
         • Anthony C 5.4.2.1.1

           3 April 2011 at 11:27 am

           Anyone noticed the horrid journalism in the article.

           1st paragraph states categorically that they are involved.

           2nd paragraph states that the relationship is alleged…

           Jesus wept…
   • William Joyce 5.5

     3 April 2011 at 12:05 pm

     Looking into the fine journalist and rising start Kathryn Powley and her excellent body of work

     Gained award in journalismfrom Massey in 2001

     It seems that Kathryn Powley has been a print journalist for at least a the last decade.
     her artciles have been published in INL/Fairfax papers since the early 2000s with articles published in DomPost, Northern Advocate

     See : Supermodel’s Kiwi surprise

     One of those journalists who find uninvolved relatives and sticks a microphone under their noses as they are putting their groceries in the boot…

     She has had hard hitting investigative pieces published in worthy publications.

     See : Hillary Timmins’ second chance at love

     At least she’s an equal opportunity offender – she has offended Cactus Kate (and what doesn’t)
     http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-about-those-discount-books-kerre.html
   • Colonial Viper 5.6

     3 April 2011 at 2:38 pm

     Yeah this is a pretty disgusting story. Looks like the gloves are already off in election year and the Right are going all out.

     Someone have a talk to the write Powley and ask her why the frak she even thinks this is news.

     Maybe the Granny Herald is starting a competition with Womans Day.
     • grumpy 5.6.1

       3 April 2011 at 5:09 pm

       This is truly a disgusting story. Obviously a lower echelon journalist(???) being fed an “exclusive”. I tend to think a Labour leak as Parker is only an issue for them at present.
       I think National would have saved it for closer to the election, especially if Goff still gets rolled.
       • felix 5.6.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 5:28 pm

         Who is suggesting Parker ever had a shot?

         I haven’t heard it seriously raised on the left at all.
         • Anthony C 5.6.1.1.1

           3 April 2011 at 7:01 pm

           Probably parliamentary insiders.

           From the National Party.
           • William Joyce 5.6.1.1.1.1

             3 April 2011 at 9:05 pm

             John Key :
             “I’ve had no advice on that – but there are always rumours around parliament”

             Yeah, right, direct from Brownlee’s office.
6. millsy 6

   3 April 2011 at 9:44 am

   Bernard hickey wants WFF and childcare funding chopped

   Never mind that WFF has lifted so many people out of poverty. Never mind that without it, there will be thousands of families that will probably end up in garages and in their cars.

   There are a lot of mean spirited people out there, who by calling for the elimination of WFF are effectively calling for food to be taken of children’s plates.
   • Draco T Bastard 6.1

     3 April 2011 at 11:35 am

     NZIER says Working for Families poorly targeted as government gets set to cut budget spending, suggests alternative
     That one? Which is actually NZEIR saying that WFF is poorly targeted and structured which I’d agree with – I’d prefer a Universal Income as it’s simpler and actually does prevent poverty.
     • Bob Stanforth 6.1.1

       3 April 2011 at 12:06 pm

       OMFG, we agree on something 🙂

       That pig just started doing low loops of the house 😉

       ASW: clubs: maybe we should form one LOL
       • grumpy 6.1.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 2:24 pm

         WFF is a subsidy to businesses to let them continue to pay low wages. It’s a crap system economically but a bloody good bribe electorally.
         • millsy 6.1.1.1.1

           3 April 2011 at 4:14 pm

           Its not a bribe, its a payment to those in work with children to ensure they get a decent standard of living.

           Tell me, are you going to go round the employers and tell them to increase wages, or tell the landlords to decrease the rent?
           • grumpy 6.1.1.1.1.1

             3 April 2011 at 5:01 pm

             You really need to get out more.

             WFF is a taxpayer subsidy of workers so that they get the illusion of higher wages without the employer having to pay any more. It’s a wart on the backside of the labour market in NZ.

             Of course employers should pay more and of course REAL wages need to be higher.

             Far from assisting families, WFF actually primarily assist employers.
             • millsy …

               3 April 2011 at 5:05 pm

               Youll be denounced as a counter-revolutionary by your fellow rightwingers for saying that…
               • grumpy …

                 3 April 2011 at 5:10 pm

                 Yeah, I know Millsy. 🙂
               • grumpy …

                 3 April 2011 at 5:20 pm

                 Lets make it simple for all the others Millsy,

                 I have a business that sells things. If people have more money they buy more and I make more money, if people have bugger all money they can’t afford to buy anything (except cockroaches) sounds a bit Social Credit eh?

                 Don’t blame me – it’s the education system, when I studied economics at Canterbury, my 2 favourite lecturers were Wolfgang Rosenberg and Alf Brownlie.

                 The thing I can’t understand is why Labour bought in such a sop to business as WFF? Is it because they didn’t want to give the Unions a whiff by giving a General Wage Order or something? Never made sense to me….
             • felix …

               3 April 2011 at 5:30 pm

               Too right grumpy. The hardest part is how do you ever transition out of a system like WFF?
7. PeteG 7

   3 April 2011 at 9:58 am

   Potentially Labour are on a lose-lose with their Hughes replacement. Tizard has just announced she’s not coming back in a muddled mucky interview with Espiner. Now if the next four on the list drop out (another four weeks of decision making?) and Louisa Walls gets in it looks like Little has put has manipulated the list and got his way.

   And worse than continuing Labour woes, another lose, this isn’t good timing for the MMP referendum.
   • The Voice of Reason 7.1

     3 April 2011 at 10:07 am

     Er, where is the problem? If you are uncomfortable with democracy, move to Canterbury and let King Gerry make all the decisions for you.
     • PeteG 7.1.1

       3 April 2011 at 10:14 am

       This is another messy ongoing distraction for Labour. Little stuffed up. Whoever was responsible for delaying Hughes’ resignation stuffed up. Tizard has reminded us why it’s better she doesn’t take up the available spot. Another week, another Labour spent spinning the wheels in the mire.
       • The Voice of Reason 7.1.1.1

         3 April 2011 at 10:32 am

         Hughes is responsible for his resignation and, clearly, Tizard’s done the right thing. In what way did Little stuff up, Pete? As far as I can tell, he’s the only Labour leader to get through the week with his reputation enhanced.
         • PeteG 7.1.1.1.1

           3 April 2011 at 12:51 pm

           Little publicly suggested that next five on the list stand aside so his choice can take the position. That’s not reputation enhancing.

           This has been a drawn out muddle, again. It suggests weak leadership.
           • The Voice of Reason 7.1.1.1.1.1

             3 April 2011 at 12:57 pm

             I think the rest of the world sees that as strong leadership; stating your position and giving sound reasons as to why it should be that way. Then letting the individuals concerned decide for themselves as to whether they took up the option. So, that’s a strong, transparent leader who respects democracy. Remind you of John Key? Nah, me neither.
           • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1.1.2

             3 April 2011 at 2:41 pm

             Little publicly suggested that next five on the list stand aside so his choice can take the position. That’s not reputation enhancing.

             The Righties are scared of Louisa Wall. So naturally, they’d prefer to have Tizard in.
             • grumpy …

               3 April 2011 at 4:09 pm

               Why? She was a waste of space last time – hence her low list ranking.
   • ianmac 7.2

     3 April 2011 at 10:18 am

     Herald quoting ScoopThe website scoop.co.nz published a statement today, purportedly from Ms Tizard, saying she “will today advise the Labour Party of her decision to enter parliament”.

     It included a number of quotes, including: “I would like to formally announce that I have decided to re-enter parliament on the Labour Party List, and fill the gap left by today’s official resignation by Darren Hughes.”
     Whats that? She has actually rejected the role so how come scoop printed the above?
     “Scoop has since removed the statement, saying it came from a bogus email address.”
     The bogus email address was of course unrelated to any political stunt. Yeah right. How do they get away with this?
     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10716445
   • mickysavage 7.3

     3 April 2011 at 10:39 am

     PeteG the wannabe Crosby Textorite.

     If Tizard opted to take the seat no doubt according to you this would be a lose-lose.

     Now that Tizard opted to not take the seat you say it is a lose lose. Did you type out the whole post and just add the extra words in the middle before you knew the decision?
     • Tiger Mountain 7.3.1

       3 April 2011 at 11:12 am

       As the election nears the number of ‘plants’ commenting here will increase as will the moderators work. I vacillate somewhat over posters using their real identities but in the end support handles as regular posters build up a profile and you know where they are coming from. If anonymity allows one useful post from say a public sector worker then it is worth it. There is a lengthy discussion at Pundit on this matter of bloggers identity that is covered from every imaginable angle that is well worth reading if anonymity exercises your thoughts.

       It is the one timers and irregulars that bug me. There was a ‘peg gressland’ for instance over at Red Alert yesterday. And numbers of righties here oh so concerned about Labours inner workings, they can all piss off in my opinion. lprent has enought to deal with in us non Labour lefties!
8. Armchair Critic 8

   3 April 2011 at 10:32 am

   Great post over at Auckland Transport Blog.
   http://transportblog.co.nz/2011/04/02/guest-post-two-aucklands/#comments
   Moderators – Any chance of getting it cross-posted?
   • Kevin Welsh 8.1

     3 April 2011 at 10:42 pm

     I agree AC. I read this tonight before The Standard and had exactly the same reaction.
9. Draco T Bastard 9

   3 April 2011 at 11:41 am

   Have Western democracies become plutocracies?
   Is New Zealand a Plutocracy? Evidence suggests that we are certainly heading that way.
   • millsy 9.1

     3 April 2011 at 5:30 pm

     Been one for 27 years, mate.

     Personally I think if businesspeople want to run this country, they should put their money where their mouths are, and stand for office.

     Roger Kerr comes to mind.
10. MrSmith 10

    3 April 2011 at 11:43 am

    I get the feeling some on the right are getting a little nervous, every day Labour are in the news for whatever reason is good for them, people just need to see them and relate to them, if they make a few mistakes well it only shows they are human. Unlike the spin&dribble from the Nact’s, which is starting to wear a little thin.
11. seeker 11

    3 April 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Certainly looks like it Mr.Smith

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/4841615/Backlash-at-Keys-instructions-on-bullying

    Backlash beginning against the “nice Mr Key” daddy-state ? (term coined by Clare Curran on Red Alert in March -thanks Clare -hope it’s alright to use it here, it was so apt!)
12. seeker 12

    3 April 2011 at 2:53 pm

    On Q&A this morning I believe Judith Collins said that people were double bunked in prisons, hence her looting comment of ‘preferably with a cellmate’. Does this mean there are 4 to a cell? If so, and with the smoking ban coming into effect in July, could there not be trouble? Crowding plus real tension from enforced giving up of an addictive substance is quite a lethal cocktail.. Judith Collins says it will be alright! Does this government understand human beings- especially those who have nothing left to lose except their last breath? Perhaps that will be the outcome. I really hope not
    • Lanthanide 12.1

      3 April 2011 at 3:03 pm

      “double bunked in prisons, hence her looting comment of ‘preferably with a cellmate’. Does this mean there are 4 to a cell?”

      Double bunking really just means 2 people per cell, rather than 2 people per bed or some other permutation.
    • millsy 12.2

      3 April 2011 at 4:20 pm

      I wish someone would ask Collins straight out if she was in favour of inmate on inmate prison rape and violence.
      • grumpy 12.2.1

        3 April 2011 at 5:04 pm

        Easy to answer that, rape is a crime and Crusher has shown she has no tolerance for crime of any sort.

        Compare that to the last lot…….
        • millsy 12.2.1.1

          3 April 2011 at 5:35 pm

          “rape is a crime”.

          Some how I doubt that Crusher would have much sympathy for an inmate who is repeatedly raped by his cell mate.

          Go grab a DVD (or download) of the TV series “OZ”.
        • William Joyce 12.2.1.2

          3 April 2011 at 9:09 pm

          …and yet we do not have one car that has been crushed.
13. ianmac 13

    3 April 2011 at 3:08 pm

    I wonder if the tough rhetoric being spouted by a certain Minister contributes to this:

    In 2009, Statistics NZ recorded 1501 teenage girls aged 14-16 being apprehended for violent crimes, including assaults, intimidation and threats.
    This compared to 1402 in 2008 and 1205 in 2007.
14. lprent 14

    3 April 2011 at 4:33 pm

    The site will be slightly slow while I pull some data for testing.
    • lprent 14.1

      3 April 2011 at 5:22 pm

      Live testing OK!
      • lprent 14.1.1

        3 April 2011 at 5:25 pm

        Live testing after change?
        • lprent 14.1.1.1

          3 April 2011 at 5:27 pm

          Live testing; not logged in. Ok (tested re-edit)
    • grumpy 14.2

      3 April 2011 at 5:27 pm

      Slow down…..we’ve gone baxk to 2008!
15. lprent 15

    3 April 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Ummm Live test with new editor – test one

    The icon display leaves a lot to be desired (didn’t happen on test area).

    But it worked in Chrome on logged in mode.
    • lprent 15.1

      3 April 2011 at 5:36 pm

      Testing as logged out user.

      That worked in Chrome. Testing re-edit worked
      • lprent 15.1.1

        3 April 2011 at 5:39 pm

        Testing in Firefox. Looks good
        • lprent 15.1.1.1

          3 April 2011 at 5:42 pm

          Testing some of the _functions ^on the line.

          Test a link to the about. Ok that seems to work
          • lprent 15.1.1.1.1

            3 April 2011 at 5:43 pm

            Test quoting?

            That seems to work
            • lprent 15.1.1.1.1.1

              3 April 2011 at 5:49 pm

              testing on safari on Mac G4 OS10.4
            • lprent 15.1.1.1.1.2

              3 April 2011 at 5:53 pm

              How well

              does it handle

              The scrolling donw the

              page

              not bad – not good
            • lprent 15.1.1.1.1.3

              3 April 2011 at 8:11 pm

              1
              2
              3
              4
              5
              6
              7
              8
              9
              10
              11
              12
              13
              14
              15
              16
              17
              18
              19
              20
              21
              22
              23
              24
              25 lines. That should be enough and every decent browser allows resizing of the text area anyway.
              • felix …

                3 April 2011 at 8:47 pm

                Just one little thing, I used to be able to TAB from the anti-spam text area into the comment text area, now it skips to the submit button.

                I can still TAB to the comment text area eventually, but only after going through every link on the page.

                (Win XP SP2, Firefox 4.0)
                • felix …

                  3 April 2011 at 9:04 pm

                  Oops, make that SP3.
16. Draco T Bastard 16

    3 April 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Transocean awards bonuses after ‘best year’ for safety

    Transocean was blamed along with BP and Halliburton after last year’s massive spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

    Yep, the people at least partly responsible for killing 11 people and causing millions of barrels of oil to leak into the ocean got a bonus for safety.
    • RedLogix 16.1

      3 April 2011 at 5:59 pm

      Nah… it just looks like the BBC. I reckon its a spoof from The Onion. 🙂
17. ianmac 17

    3 April 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Just testing and it looks much smarter though 52 though not sure what the command is for block quote on a Mac. ŒThis compared to 1402 in 2008 and 1205 in 2007.
    • lprent 17.1

      3 April 2011 at 6:12 pm

      Be back to it after I eat a kebab.
18. ianmac 18

    3 April 2011 at 5:53 pm

    OOps. underline and strike and subscript disappeared from draft to submit.
    • ianmac 18.1

      3 April 2011 at 8:37 pm

      Just checking again and strikeTransocean was blamed along with BP and Halliburton after last year’s massive spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

      Transocean was blamed along with BP and Halliburton after last year’s massive spill in the Gulf of Mexico.
    • lprent 18.2

      3 April 2011 at 8:42 pm

      Interesting. You mean that it was on-screen, but didn’t save?
      I’ll check that on safari on a Mac when Lyn lets me back on her machine.
      • ianmac 18.2.1

        3 April 2011 at 11:39 pm

        Yes Lprent. This showed on my screen as strike and this as underline and bold and italics

        I’ll check that on safari on a Mac when Lyn lets me back on her machine. quotes

        Using Firefox
        • lprent 18.2.1.1

          4 April 2011 at 6:59 am

          Ah. Firefox on a Mac.
19. Carol 19

    3 April 2011 at 7:03 pm

    Flicking through the Sunday Herald today, I came across this article about how there aren’t enough buses on some Auckland routes to cater for all the people leaving cars at home due to the price of petrol:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10716784

    Commuters said this week they often saw up to three full buses drive past their stops because there was no room for more passengers.
    Under-pressure providers are trying to borrow buses from quake-hit Christchurch and pressing older vehicles back into service.
    But Auckland Mayor Len Brown, who made better public transport a key part of his election campaign, said it was a “hell of a good problem to have”.

    Of course, I’m sure Joyce has a blindfold and earplugs and hasn’t noticed.
    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      3 April 2011 at 11:23 pm

      Another $1/L rise in petrol and a hell of a lot more people will find it uneconomic to drive to work.
      Could happen by the new year, or soon thereafter.
       
20. gingercrush 20

    3 April 2011 at 11:10 pm

    This is too much and resembles
    

    a horrible

    bulletin
    board

    from before 2000
    • gingercrush 20.1

      3 April 2011 at 11:11 pm

      ?

      ?

      a

      Bulletin points don’t seem to work. Oh and can we have shiny text and huge signatures
      • lprent 20.1.1

        4 April 2011 at 7:01 am

        Oh and can we have shiny text and huge signatures

        Nope. Mostly this is to allow new people to not have to learn HTML to leave links that don’t upset the anti spam engin.
        • Carol 20.1.1.1

          4 April 2011 at 7:09 am

          I actually quite like the full url as a link, because then I can see what I’m being linked to. I like to have some clue rather than a look at this, kind of link.  Time is short.  I also like some clue as to why I’m being recommended to check out a link.  Without that, I often don’t bother…. life’s too short, sometimes I’m too busy.
          • felix 20.1.1.1.1

            4 April 2011 at 7:38 am

            Hi Carol, when you hover over a link your browser should display the destination down at the bottom of the window somewhere (in Firefox it’s at the bottom left)
    • lprent 20.2

      3 April 2011 at 11:22 pm

      Still testing it. And I have a bug in the turn off code. I will fix it when I get up at about 6am

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