Open mike 03/06/2016

149 comments on “Open mike 03/06/2016 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   3 June 2016 at 6:25 am

   The NZ Defence Force has been called on to defend New Zealanders, by using some of their resources to help Te Puea Marae deal with the homeless emergency.
   Will the army step up to the plate in defending poorer New Zealanders?
   Is are our armed forces only purpose, to serve the geo-political interests of the rich and powerful, here and overseas?
   Or to defend all New Zealanders?

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11648844
   • Jenny 1.1

     3 June 2016 at 6:33 am

     The New Zealand Defence force has received a “big jump” in their funding in this budget, they are well able to spare some resources to help Te Puea Marae cope with emergency housing efforts.

     Will they do it?

     “Big Jump In Defence Spending”

     Or is our army only at the beck and call of the rich and privileged who have no interest in defending New Zealand, only their own selfish geo political partnerships and interests, with our soldiers lives if necessary.

     National will allocate $100.3 million in next month’s Budget and a total of $535 million over the next four years….
   • Puckish Rogue 1.2

     3 June 2016 at 8:45 am

     Jenny the armed forces, in NZ, follow the orders of the NZ government. This is as it should be.

     It sounds nice and good to say why doesn’t the military act when someone deserving asks for help but that would be a very bad thing.

     It would be a very bad thing because, as an example, if a government is elected that the military thinks is bad for the country then the military might decide that a coup is in order to protect the people from themselves.

     Now I would have no problem with the military being called in to help, it would probably even be good training, but only if the government gives the good ahead.

     Basically I feel that the slippery slope argument is why the military should always take direction from the government of the day
     • mauī 1.2.1

       3 June 2016 at 9:20 am

       And if the Government tells you to escort all the South Aucklanders living in cars to an internment camp on the Desert Rd.. you would be just following orders right?
       • marty mars 1.2.1.1

         3 June 2016 at 9:30 am

         the shultz defence would kick in then – at the peoples trials held after I mean…
       • crashcart 1.2.1.2

         3 June 2016 at 10:46 am

         You are required to follow any order from a superior officer that will not result in a breach of the law. If you are given an order that would result in an illegal action you are required to not follow that order. If you do not agree with an order or feel that it is not a lawful order (does not meet certain criteria, nothing to do with illegal) you are required to follow that order and then file a formal complaint in regards to the order.

         Failure to follow lawful orders can include detention in Burnham military camp or a sever fine. In times of war it can result in execution (yes New Zealand does still have the death penalty).

         Military personnel do contribute to the community every day in ways you don’t see. The number of times you will be approached to help out with charitable endeavours is impressive. It is also in policy that if you are carrying out certain types of training and team building you are required to organise time to do community service.

         If you want more information on how the NZDF contributes to the communities in which they are located feel free to go to your local base and have a chat to them. I am sure they will be happy to answer any queries you have.

         Bought to you by your friendly local member of the NZDF.
         • marty mars 1.2.1.2.1

           3 June 2016 at 10:50 am

           “a formal complaint in regards to the order”

           has this happened very much?
           • crashcart 1.2.1.2.1.1

             3 June 2016 at 10:57 am

             I couldn’t give you numbers. Formal complaints are common and often upheld. There is a very rigorous system that allows any member to push a complaint as high as the Chief of Defence Force if they feel it has not be fairly addressed.
             • Macro …

               3 June 2016 at 2:38 pm

               IIRC complaints could also progress to the Governor General, if CDS does not satisfy the complaint. That was still one of the main reasons IMHO for the retention of the Monarchy. I held my commission as an officer of the RNZN from the Queen – not the PM.
               Whilst serving on Naval Staff I dealt with a number of complaints of a variety of different reasons. (but that was back in the late ’70’s early ’80’s)
               I can’t think of any that did go on to the GG however.
               • Macro …

                 3 June 2016 at 2:41 pm

                 I also see that in the UK they have now introduced a Service Complaints Ombudsman.
                 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/armed-forces-service-complaints-process

                 Something we could perhaps introduce here.
       • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1.3

         3 June 2016 at 10:46 am

         Since you’ve asked me a question I’ll ask one of you in response:

         Its 2020 and Labour/Greens have claimed power. As part of the deal the Greens have insisted on implementing their policy on defence: https://home.greens.org.nz/policy/summary/defence

         The NZDF, fearing that these restrictions will place the country in an immediate threat of invasion, have decided to mount a coup to protect NZ

         They do this because, instead of waiting for parliament to agree, they just decide its the right thing to do because they want to protect the people of NZ.

         My question is: would you be ok with that?

         Because that’s the other side of the coin. IMHO the system we have now where the NZDF responds to requests is the better option, it isn’t perfect but the alternative may well lead to outcomes you weren’t expecting
         • DoublePlusGood 1.2.1.3.1

           3 June 2016 at 12:07 pm

           What exactly would the NZDF mount a coup with?
           • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1.3.1.1

             3 June 2016 at 12:44 pm

             That’s not really the question though is it, a hypothetical question was asked supporting one side of the argument, I posed a hypothetical for the other.

             I don’t expect the NZDF to stage a coup at any time but then I don’t expect the homeless to be shipped off to an internment camp on the Desert road either
           • McFlock 1.2.1.3.1.2

             3 June 2016 at 12:49 pm

             Better shit than the Fijian military has.
             • adam …

               3 June 2016 at 3:40 pm

               All the shit they get from the UN
2. Paul 2

   3 June 2016 at 6:25 am

   Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
   We have become a cruel, ugly and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

   Unaffordable housing.

   ‘John Key suggested we Google Trade Me for homes under $500,000. So we did, and here they are The prime minister told reporters yesterday there are plenty of (relatively) affordable Auckland homes on Trade Me. Madeleine Chapman searched the site to see if he was right.
   Asked yesterday about Auckland’s average house price nearing the $1 million mark, John Key was as upbeat as ever: “If you go on Trade Me this afternoon and Google property $500,000 or less in Auckland, you will find there are quite a few.”
   Leaving to one side the curious instruction to Google something on Trade Me, this isn’t the first time the PM has directed us to this online real estate nirvana.
   Almost exactly two years ago he talked down concerns about the housing crisis with an even stronger endorsement of Trade Me’s budget catalogue.
   “If you go on Trade Me to look for Auckland housing under $400,000 there are over 2,000 properties listed.”
   The journey from 2,000 under-$400k to “quite a few” under-$5ook is troubling enough. But what are these “quite a few”? I Googled up my Trade Me to find out.’

   http://thespinoff.co.nz/politics-media/02-06-2016/john-key-suggested-we-google-trademe-for-homes-under-500000-so-we-did-and-here-they-are/
   • tc 2.1

     3 June 2016 at 6:58 am

     Key carries on under the assumption his media shills will keep swallowing the spin and not bother doing any digging or analysis on his BS. His recent rants being examples.

     This site has many examples yet look at the msm and it’s a wasteland of celebrity, sport and human interest pieces in between careful messaging on behalf of national.

     Mr and mrs soper appear to be very busy along with the usual sycophants like trevitt and the suck up brothers Henry/Hoskins.
   • Bearded Git 2.2

     3 June 2016 at 10:51 am

     This was a particularly stupid comment even by Key’s standards. Very odd-there is a consistent pattern now that he just can’t be bothered; that the media “will swallow anything I say”. So he tells the media there are still lots of cheap houses in Auckland, where on Planet Key this is under $500k, and it’s not really true anyway. He just can’t come to terms with the housing crisis that National has created.

     If Little had said this the MSM would have hit him with a tonne of bricks.
     • Bearded Git 2.2.1

       3 June 2016 at 11:05 am

       I notice in the Herald today 14.2% of sales in Auckland last month were below $500k. Assuming almost all of these were in the $400-500k bracket that means there are sod-all affordable houses around. Is a house at $350k really affordable to a wide range of society? Not in my book.
3. Paul 3

   3 June 2016 at 6:47 am

   A cruel and selfish nation.
   Mike Hosking.
   A narcissist, who comments on a housing crisis while driving around the leafy suburbs in a Maserati.

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/housing-crisis-driven-more-emotion-than-fact
   • Paul 3.1

     3 June 2016 at 7:23 am

     ‘Shoeless and limping to school.’
     But that’s ok…..John Key and Mike Hosking says there isn’t a housing or homeless crisis in New Zealand. We should just pull up our tinted windows in our SUVs and pay them money to disappear.
     Godzone has morphed into Randistan and narcissist psychopaths are shredding this country.

     http://i.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/80649213/Nelson-boy-came-to-school-shoeless-and-limping-Child-Poverty-Action-Group-told
     • save nz 3.1.1

       3 June 2016 at 11:29 am

       @ Paul, While I like the theme of how bad John Key has made this country – I have to say that I am optimistic that people are still kind and caring and generous. Not Hoskings obviously, but have a look at the Te Puea Marae and people have donated over $7000 already, when Campbell Live was on people always gave generously.

       There is a lot of hope and worldwide things are changing. Just caring by posting is changing the discourses….
   • vto 3.2

     3 June 2016 at 7:28 am

     Paul I do like your constant repetition of the line “cruel and selfish” in its various guises.

     It does describe our society to a considerable extent, brought on and/or cemented in place by the arrival of the neoliberal paradigm in the 1980’s which had as its base premise “self-interest”.

     It is a very sad indictment.

     But it is true.

     People today are outwardly more selfish, cruel, nasty, greedy and less caring..

     But inwardly people will be the same – with the other characteristics of humanity that are more caring and sharing, more social (we are the most social of creatures and absolutely not a bunch of individuals – what a stupid idea), more with a view to what we leave for our mokopuna… those characteristics are there for sure …..

     ….. they are just hidden under the ugly morass of greedy neoliberalism, but they will sprout and flower again..
   • Tarquin 3.3

     3 June 2016 at 9:33 am

     Maybe you should try staying in bed. Every morning is the same, try seeing the glass half full for a change. Who cares what Mike Hosking thinks? He makes a living out of people like you giving him oxygen. Lighten up a bit, it’s a lovely day.
   • ianmac 3.4

     3 June 2016 at 10:09 am

     Hosking says 800 under $500k in Auckland.
     Spinoff says 65. (Of which some are a long way out of Auckland and some are on lease land.)
     Who should I believe? Key/Hoskings or Spinoff?
     Key knows that he can toss off his remarks with immunity. How many voters would go and actually look? And why quibble about the exact number of houses?
     A cunning plan Baldrick!
     • save nz 3.4.1

       3 June 2016 at 11:32 am

       Take out the leases. Remember the woman who had her lease in Cornwall park go up to $40,000 per year or something. She then had to go to court about it when she couldn’t pay and had to abandon the property etc etc.

       Also take out the apartments with Body Corps as the same thing can happen. They decide you need a big long term fund, replace the roof, new swimming pool or what have you and low and behold, legally you have to make the extra payments.
   • DH 3.5

     3 June 2016 at 12:28 pm

     I’m constantly bemused by the inability of the media at large to use a search engine, especially the Trademe one. Some of these people who quote Trademe are really too stupid for words.

     All Hoskings had to do was sort his search results in order of highest price to lowest and he would have discovered that the Trademe search engine is a little less than truthful. But no, he instead makes a dick of himself.
   • Naki man 3.6

     3 June 2016 at 1:08 pm

     “A narcissist, who comments on a housing crisis while driving around the leafy suburbs in a Maserati”

     Paul your idol Mike sold his Maserati in 2014. Do try to keep up old boy.
     • framu 3.6.1

       3 June 2016 at 4:24 pm

       well. that changes things no end
     • Incognito 3.6.2

       3 June 2016 at 10:58 pm

       Paul your idol Mike sold his Maserati in 2014.

       On TradeMe no doubt.

       Shame though because I’ve been told that a Maserati makes for excellent night accommodation for homeless people.
4. save nz 4

   3 June 2016 at 6:47 am

   Severely tortured Guantánamo detainee makes case for freedom at board hearing

   http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/02/guantanamo-bay-hearing-mohamedou-slahi-diary
5. Jenny 5

   3 June 2016 at 6:52 am

   Clinton and Trump “Neck and Neck in the polls”

   http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/22/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-polls/

   How could this disaster happen?

   Will the conservative Democratic Super-Delegates hand the presidency to Donald Trump by nominating second runner (to Sanders) Clinton as their nominee?

   Will the Democratic Convention of 2016 be a repeat of the Democratic Convention of 1968?

   Where the convention handed the US presidency to Nixon by choosing an unpopular pro-Vietnam war candidate Hubert Humphrey, over and anti-Vietnam war candidate Eugene McCarthy?

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention
   • Stunned mullet 5.1

     3 June 2016 at 6:57 am

     President trump will save us all by killing everyone.
   • Jenny 5.2

     3 June 2016 at 6:59 am

     The horse race itself is swinging toward the billionaire businessman, who according to the Washington Post-ABC News poll has picked up 11 points since March, giving him a narrow 46%-44% lead. But the sum result in both surveys is a statistical dead heat. Clinton leads by 3 points, 46%-43%, in the NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

     Both results are within the margin of error.

     Trump’s recent bump coincides with a growing sense of acceptance among Republican establishment figures. From former primary opponents to elected officials on Capitol Hill, the GOP is broadly warming to its likely standard-bearer.

     Efforts by the #NeverTrump movement to draft a conservative challenger have been all but abandoned. Perhaps the most popular figure in the GOP, House Speaker Paul Ryan, has signaled a desire for détente with Trump.

     http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/22/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-polls/
6. Jenny 6

   3 June 2016 at 7:03 am

   On the Democratic side, Clinton remains the front-runner but has yet to actually clinch the number of delegates necessary to defeat rival Bernie Sanders. But the Vermont senator is not going quietly, and the left is now seemingly at odds with itself as Democrats squabble over the allocation of delegates.

   Indeed, both polls show the most popular candidate in either party is Sanders, who to his benefit has largely avoided any especially negative attacks during the primary. The Washington Post-ABC News poll shows the Vermont independent with a net positive favorability rating (49% to 41%), which essentially matched the NBC News/Wall Street Journal findings.

   http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/22/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-polls/
   • b waghorn 6.1

     3 June 2016 at 7:08 am

     If I was a democrat I’d be ditching Clinton
     • happynz 6.1.1

       3 June 2016 at 8:08 am

       I read this op-ed by Thomas Friedman this morning (02/06/2016) in the Tampa Bay Times (I’m stuck in Florida for the next several months, ugh)

       All lying in politics is not created equal. I think the ideology Sanders is selling is fanciful, but underlying it is a moral critique of modern capitalism that has merit and deserves to be heard. But Sanders is not being truthful about the costs. What is grating about Clinton is that her prevarications seem so unnecessary and often insult our intelligence. But they are not about existential issues. As for Trump, his lies are industrial size and often contradict each other. But there is no theory behind his lies, except what will advance him, which is why Trump is only scary if he wins. Otherwise, his candidacy will leave no ideas behind. It will be just a reality TV show that got cancelled.

       This is serious. We’re about to elect all three branches of our government. I wish we had better choices, but given the options, I’d vote for the candidate most likely to be a practical unifier and get some things done — and who only tells whoppers about herself, not about my country’s future.

       Friedman has given Clinton one of the greatest weak tea endorsements I’ve seen in ages. lol
       • ianmac 6.1.1.1

         3 June 2016 at 10:16 am

         So Frieddman says “But there is no theory behind his lies, except what will advance him,…”
         In my eyes this is what Key does. No particular philosophy, say what the audience want to hear, and respond to problems with pragmatic non solutions to buy time. Key has a smoother delivery though.
         • Puckish Rogue 6.1.1.1.1

           3 June 2016 at 10:52 am

           “All lying in politics is not created equal”

           This, I think, is the crux of the matter. There are things you can lie about with impunity but there are some things you can’t and they don’t always make, logical, sense
           • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.1.1.1

             3 June 2016 at 3:30 pm

             Lying never makes logical sense. Believing that it does is probably a sign of psychopathy.
         • save nz 6.1.1.1.2

           3 June 2016 at 11:42 am

           You are right, Trump and Key are very similar. Key is dangerous because he has a team behind him, working the numbers and pushing obstacles out of his way (Campbell Live) and appears pretty ordinary in other ways so you don’t realise what he is capable of (being the IDU chairman seems to mean he is VERY capable), Trump is dangerous because if he gets elected he is likely to have a bad hair day and release all the missiles, maybe just for fun if Merkel doesn’t put lipstick on. He wants people to fear him. It’s kinda like an American Kim Jong Un – in fact Kim Jong Un is one of the few foreign PM’s who have endorsed Trump and called him ‘wise’ while John Key has had a secret meeting with Trump (another endorsement).
         • Stuart Munro 6.1.1.1.3

           3 June 2016 at 4:01 pm

           Key is not a liar, he’s a bullshitter.

           The liar is concerned with that the truth of the statement is believed. Key cares neither what people think nor about the real state of affairs – he says what makes him look good.

           https://jdc325.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/why-are-lies-worse-than-bullshit/

           The gorilla is a good example – we are supposed to believe that the gorilla engaged Key’s sympathy – but it’s a counterfactual – Key never had to cope with the gorilla, and given the enthusiasm with which he has DOC poisoning kiwi this new ‘animal lover’ identity is empirically unlikely.
     • aerobubble 6.1.2

       3 June 2016 at 10:12 am

       Clinton needs Trump for now, i just dont believe that Trump can win, too many republicians will not vote, as trump will set the image of Republicianism. Why are so many prominent party politicians unavailable to back their parties candidate, its obvious they or who they want to run in the future would be worse off with Trump.

       But in many ways they have their selves to blame, they thought they could go right against Clinton, and they’d win, till Trump beat off weak spineless out of touch wanabees.
   • Jenny 6.2

     3 June 2016 at 10:32 pm

     Despite pressure from party establishment on Sanders to drop out of the race, most Democratic voters want the senator to keep running.

     The findings contradict the pressure from prominent Democratic politicians and centrist pundits on Sanders to drop out of the presidential race—some of whom even argue that he’s already lost—despite the fact that several states (including delegate-rich California) and U.S. territories have yet to hold their primaries. (Polls also show Sanders and Clinton in a dead heat in California, which votes on June 7.)

     http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/06/01/vast-majority-democrats-want-sanders-stay-race-poll
   • Jenny 6.3

     3 June 2016 at 10:32 pm

     Despite pressure from party establishment on Sanders to drop out of the race, most Democratic voters want the senator to keep running.

     The findings contradict the pressure from prominent Democratic politicians and centrist pundits on Sanders to drop out of the presidential race—some of whom even argue that he’s already lost—despite the fact that several states (including delegate-rich California) and U.S. territories have yet to hold their primaries. (Polls also show Sanders and Clinton in a dead heat in California, which votes on June 7.)

     http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/06/01/vast-majority-democrats-want-sanders-stay-race-poll
7. Adrian 7

   3 June 2016 at 7:53 am

   Last week I queried the Meth Contamination thresholds in houses. Turns out that this could be this year’s biggest scam and there is shitloads of candidates for that title.
   The “testing ” is being done by real estate agents, and to top it off there is no official threshold, that is being establish by, you quested it, the people doing the testing.
   Who would have thought that real estate agents could be dishonest.
   What I want 3’s Story to follow up on is how many ” contaminated” houses have been bought by agents or their proxies for a huge discount.
   • Penny Bright 7.1

     3 June 2016 at 8:18 am

     My understanding is that that there is no legislation, there are no ‘standards’, regulations, policies, procedures or protocols covering the testing for alleged “P” contamination of houses, owned by either the private sector or the State.

     So – how exactly is it being decided that houses ARE ‘contaminated’ with “P”?

     Who decides that – based on what?

     Next question – WHO contaminated the house with “P”?

     How convenient for the impression to be created that there are empty State houses because State tenants contaminated them with “P”?

     I have a comprehensive OIA request on the issue of “P” contamination of State houses currently lodged with Housing Minister Nick Smith and am awaiting with interest the official response to my questions.

     Penny Bright
     2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
     • Richardrawshark 7.1.1

       3 June 2016 at 10:06 am

       I think the question you should be asking is not who conducts tests, but looking at the tests themselves, how many, how good is each product, are the testers trained, are they aware of cross contamination, rental property managers could be cross contaminating tons of places just inspecting renters.

       Due to this their will be a regulation, tests will eventually become compulsory on all sales and the few agencies with certification to do it will be owned by tories and raking in truckloads off kiwis in testing costs.

       P. I like the Indonesian laws on this, a bullets cheaper.
   • save nz 7.2

     3 June 2016 at 11:45 am

     Good point Adrian!!! Now there is some cottage industry of people going around finding everything is P contaminated and the property is unliveable. Another reason to sell off the state houses and to blame the tenants.

     Not to mention the windfalls for real estate agents and property investors.
     • Olwyn 7.2.1

       3 June 2016 at 1:09 pm

       From what I have read, both here and on Public Address, the meth-testing business should send a shiver down everyone’s spine. For one thing, if there is no threshold, those accused are left with no grounds for defending themselves – you cannot challenge a false positive if there is no standard determining the positive in the first place. For another, according to Russell Brown, scientists have said that meth manufacture poses a serious health risk, but meth having been smoked in a house generally does not. http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/this-is-crazy/ Moreover, minor contamination could just as easily come from a tradesman who fixed the toilet, or a relative sneaking off to the laundry at an after-wedding party, etc – there could even be a cooking ingredient that registers a blip on whatever it is they use for “testing”. If what I have read about it is even half true, it shows a frighteningly cavalier attitude to human rights, rule of law, and sober-minded governance.
       • James Thrace 7.2.1.1

         3 June 2016 at 2:05 pm

         There is a guideline actually. Ministry of Health say that it is .5mg per 100mg.

         However, this guideline relies on a “per room” method of testing in which up to 8 swabs are taken in a different area of each room. So for a 3 bedroom house, you’re looking at around 50 swabs.

         This is a fairly expensive method.

         What the meth tests companies do instead, is use ONE swab, and rub it over 8 different locations throughout the house and come up with a ‘composite test’

         This is incredibly misleading as some of the ingredients in P are also found in common household brands of flyspray.

         Housing NZ have a policy that any meth contamination is too much contamination.

         A lot of their houses have been found to only have .05mg or less, per 100mg of contamination.

         That apparently, is enough to prove P use. Despite the fact it likely isn’t.

         So to summarise.

         MoH say .5mg per 100mg is a level at which a house is safe to live in. Anything above it is likely to have been a p lab.
         However,the guidelines recommend 8 swabs per room.

         P testing companies routinely report contamination levels of .05mg/100mg and under. That is, 10 times less contamination than the MOH recommends.
         This is often arrived at by using one swab across 8 areas of the house.

         Likely that the ‘composite’ test inflates the true figure of potential contamination, and could easily be picking up flyspray residue.
         • Olwyn 7.2.1.1.1

           3 June 2016 at 2:30 pm

           If any level whatsoever counts against the tenant, and the testing method is open to producing a positive from fly spray, then the ‘guideline’ functions as little more than a fig leaf for expedience. And of course, the zero tolerance stance allows for an “honest mistake” claim to be made should a serious challenge arise. Hardly a recipe for political or social trust.
         • framu 7.2.1.1.2

           3 June 2016 at 4:27 pm

           “There is a guideline actually. Ministry of Health say that it is .5mg per 100mg.”

           thats for lab contamination – which has a different set of chemicals and residues

           (as far as im aware)

           this is where much of the problem arises – guidelines for one set of chemicals being used for a different situation than they cover
       • Adrian 7.2.1.2

         3 June 2016 at 2:23 pm

         Toluene which is used in meth production is also in nail varnish and particularily in remover and in all sorts of cleaner including carpets etc”
         I,m sure this is a scam using bad science and fear mongering to scam the house trading industry.
         • gsays 7.2.1.2.1

           3 June 2016 at 6:22 pm

           Hi adrian, I agree, a scam run by the sorts of people who do workplace ‘drug testing’.
   • The New Student 7.3

     3 June 2016 at 7:51 pm

     Very interesting point. It’s hard to get ANY reliable information on the subject of testing, reliability, acceptable levels of meth, who gets to decide that suspicion is permitted to be cast onto whatever property. Finally found a little something, sorry if you all have already seen it: http://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2016/03/24/meth-contaminated-homes-whats-the-risk-expert-reaction/

     “The Ministry of Health currently recommends that surface wipes for methamphetamine not exceed a concentration of 0.5 μg/100 cm2 as the acceptable post-remediation re-occupancy level for a dwelling that has been used as a clan meth lab”. Based on US guidelines (suggestions). Ok. Note that 0.5 micrograms (μg or ug) means 0.0005 mg.

     This does not differentiate from potential residue left by end-users, who can be quite different to the ‘cooks’ or producers (in my ignorant opinion, I don’t believe that that every P user makes their own?)

     They also make no mention of the type of meth molecule being tested for. Illicit methamphetamine is characterised by its stereochemistry, dictated by the choice of precursor used. All manufacturing methods starting from l-ephedrine or d-pseudoephedrine produce (d) (+)-(S)-methamphetamine as the single optical isomer. Methods using P2P (phenyl-2-nitropropene to phenylacetone) results in a racemic mixture (both l- and d- isomers) of methamphetamine.

     A well-used example: L-methamphetamine (“l” form/isomer) is available over-the-counter as the active ingredient of decongestant inhalers like the popular Vick’s brand. It is a metabolite of certain prescription medications. Both “d” and “l” test positive by both immunoassay and most GC/MS assays.1
     Meth is meth but I would expect a positive result to be further investigated to determine if the meth COULD have originated from a completely legit source.
     https://www.hitpages.com/doc/5766999321870336/2#pageTop is one link.

     Not much indication that testing for other chemicals involved in illicit manufacture is actually REQUIRED, which one might expect? Seems the Guidelines (suggestions) only suggest that these other chemicals be tested for. To my small brain this would go some way in determining the source of the detected ‘meth’ (i.e. clan lab vs. end user)

     I’d like to see some basic NZ-based research. I’d like to at least see a random selection of houses/dwellings ‘tested for meth’. Or even just the McMansions, that would be entertaining.

     How do they prove that the current tenant/occupier/owner was ACTUALLY involved in cooking? Or even an end-user? Some of this is really not right. To say the least.
   • Jenny 7.4

     4 June 2016 at 4:12 am

     Meanwhile the privatisation of the State Housing stock proceeds at pace.

     http://www.converge.org.nz/watchdog/39/07.html

     Here in Papakura a corner block of state houses in Rosehill were demolished on grounds of P contamination.

     And P Contamination is one of the reasons given why another 25-50 State Houses in this suburb of high housing need are kept empty.

     It is distressing to read that such grounds for demolition and removal of State Housing stock from the rental market on grounds of P Contamination is a subjective matter.

     Especially when our local Bruce Pulman Park has been in the news for the large number of homeless who camp here.

     (Bruce Pulman Park even featured in the news of John Key’s latest lies)

     PM’s remarks, “untrue” say Salvation Army

     John Key says his comments that some of the homeless sleeping in cars in Bruce Pulman Park didn’t want to be housed, were made on the information supplied to him by his officials.

     If the government at the highest level can blatantly lie about fictional visits to the homeless in Bruce Pulman Park, – With no proper sound scientific basis for making such decisions, who can trust that these same zealous officials are not exaggerating the nature and the extent of the P contamination of State Houses in Papakura to help carry out the government’s stated privatisation program of the State Housing asset?

     Following the 2014 election the National government embarked on what it intends will be the largest privatisation of State assets in New Zealand history – dwarfing any of the sales successive Labour and National governments have posted in the last 30 years. National is beginning the sale of New Zealand’s estimated $15 billion in State housing stock. No less than three National government ministers are now directly involved – Housing Minister Nick Smith, State Housing Minister Bill English and Social Housing Minister Paula Bennett.

     The first stage of privatisation involves the sale of 6,000 to 8,000 houses over the next few years with up to 2,000 being sold in the first year. It’s clear that if unchecked National will sell every last State home. The latest proposal for mass privatisation of State housing comes close on the heels of National Party attacks on Housing New Zealand (HNZ) and its tenants from its first two terms. Early in its first term National forced HNZ to slash State house waiting lists, close most local offices and strip tenure (the right to stay in your home) from existing tenants. It drove staff morale to rock-bottom and HNZ has been stripped of its role in assessing tenants for housing needs. Work and Income NZ (WINZ) has taken over this function and will allocate eligible tenants and families to HNZ or private “social housing providers”.
     John Minto
     • Jenny 7.4.1

       4 June 2016 at 4:26 am

       Newstalk ZB has revealed anywhere between 20 and 50 cars are parked every night at Bruce Pulman Park in Takanini as their homeless occupants make use of a toilet facility.

       The Ministry of Social Development has said it has become aware of the group and is now working hard to get them the help they need.

       Base on the evidence, let me correct the above statement;
       The MSD has said it has become aware of the group and is now lying hard to prevent them getting the help they need.

       http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/half-the-homes-vacant-in-papakura-are-not-fit-to-rent-to-families-sleeping-in-cars/
       • Jenny 7.4.1.1

         4 June 2016 at 4:48 am

         Housing New Zealand has said it has 52 vacant houses in Papakura, with 25 of those not presently fit to rent

         of the 27 Housing New Zealand homes ready to let, a family is either about to move in, or the property is in the process of being matched to a family while minor maintenance work is carried out.

         The remaining 25 have significant issues such as fire damage, methamphetamine contamination or may be about to be demolished to make way for new homes.

         http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/half-the-homes-vacant-in-papakura-are-not-fit-to-rent-to-families-sleeping-in-cars/

         What the ZB report blatantly leaves out or doesn’t make clear is what kind of homes are being built to replace the demolished State Houses.

         On past experience, most of them (or even just the land) will be sold privately with a few sold/given to private charities to run as so called “Social Housing”.

         The National Government’s “Social Housing” program, with it’s stated concentration on providing affordable houses for private sale, as well as to private charities, has had very mixed results. While it can be argued that the Social Housing program has provided relief for those on middle incomes unable to buy in an overpriced housing market. (and some relief for those at the very bottom reliant on private charities). Overall it has seen a decline in the number of rentals for people unable to afford to buy, at the so called affordable level ($300,000)

         http://www.socialhousing.govt.nz/
     • The New Bapsae 7.4.2

       4 June 2016 at 6:59 pm

       Wth, This is actual depressing. Think I need to watch me some Batchelor reruns to get my mind off it…
8. Adrian 8

   3 June 2016 at 7:58 am

   “Quested”?, should be quessed , is predictive spelling just another pain in the arse?
9. Penny Bright 9

   3 June 2016 at 8:03 am

   Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump – ‘Presidential’?

   SCARY stuff !

   http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/trump-university-its-worse-than-you-think?mbid=nl_Copy%20of%20060216%20Cassidy%20Post%20Newsletter%20(1)&CNDID=41877260&spMailingID=9006421&spUserID=MTMyMDA4OTYwNzQzS0&spJobID=940207458&spReportId=OTQwMjA3NDU4S0

   “Following the release, earlier this week, of testimony filed in a federal lawsuit against Trump University, the United States is facing a high-stakes social-science experiment.

   Will one of the world’s leading democracies elect as its President a businessman who founded and operated a for-profit learning annex that some of its own employees regarded as a giant rip-off, and that the highest legal officer in New York State has described as a classic bait-and-switch scheme? …”
   ___________________________

   Penny Bright
   2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
   • stunned mullet 9.1

     3 June 2016 at 8:29 am

     Penny Bright – mayoral candidate….scary stuff !
     • Ben 9.1.1

       3 June 2016 at 10:32 am

       +1,000.

       Luckily the chances of that happening are nil.
       • save nz 9.1.1.1

         3 June 2016 at 11:47 am

         Just hope Penny gets more votes than Cameron’s Palino.
10. Richardrawshark 10

    3 June 2016 at 9:09 am

    Of all of my loathing of Paul Henry being a Tory Scum, he made me famous this morning. Still hate your guts Henry and yes you lost to Georgina Beyer.

    Now I would like to make it clear I do not have any issues with transgender people at all. I said it that way, because I imagine to a TORY SCUMBAG like Paul Henry, the dent in his TORY pride from losing to an LBGT of all opposition to him, must really irritate him hence he attacks the left every opportunity to exact his pathetic revenge and dislike..

    Since I cannot battle his Tory point of view, to make my sad little life better, I thought i’d make his day in Keys paradise a reminder of what a loser National prospect he was.

    So to Any TG people reading, no offence meant and thank you for allowing/hopefully not crucifying me to use Georgina B to rub salt in Henrys wounds.

    Cracked up when he said Richard, I don’t think he’s a fan.. Never thought he’d actually read it out.
    • marty mars 10.1

      3 June 2016 at 9:33 am

      I don’t agree with using a group, that has suffered so much in society, as a weapon against a dickhead. No one wins, everyone loses.
      • Richardrawshark 10.1.1

        3 June 2016 at 9:56 am

        I just woke up, turned on to see Henry spouting all homeless don’t want help and painting the National line.

        I remembered someone posting here yesterday that Henry lost to GB, I didn’t know that till yesterday, I didn’t know Henry had stood for National and I was shocked he’s now on TV3 with full access in the morning to spout his tory beliefs.

        I’m Bi-polar and even on meds find things coming out that I realize I should have thought of first before I spoke.

        I was wrong, But at the same time I got everyone who watches Paul Henry and didn’t know he’d been a National candidate to know go hold on? is that true?

        They may research and now know for a fact what they hear from him has a political purpose!

        If in any way one person changes knowing they are being manipulated by the media, i’m sure the LBGT members who support our political point of view will let it slide.

        I apologise to anyone who loves to point fingers and pick fault in others, in the belief no one makes mistakes and if they do they should be thoroughly rounded upon. 🙂
        • marty mars 10.1.1.1

          3 June 2016 at 10:33 am

          no problems richard – this position of mine is consistent with me and honed over a long time – not a personal thing against you or even what you said or did – it is my limits, my lines in the sand – not other people’s whose lines may be and often are in different places. My only point in posting was to say out loud the above so that others see different views and opinions.
        • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.2

          3 June 2016 at 11:00 am

          With all due respect I’m pretty sure most people would know that Paul Henrys political leanings are on the right, its not really a big surprise
          • save nz 10.1.1.2.1

            3 June 2016 at 11:51 am

            The issue is more about how in a more even contest Paul Henry loses hands down.

            Yep Weldon, Chrisite and John Key have put him on this pedestal and got him on TV to push their poison – but ultimately he is deeply unpopular no matter what they do and that is why TV3 ratings have plummeted.
            • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.2.1.1

              3 June 2016 at 12:54 pm

              Hes not a good politician that’s for sure but to label him deeply unpopular isn’t quite correct because the ratings for his show have increased:

              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11496016

              http://www.throng.co.nz/2015/09/ratings-paul-henrys-numbers-up/

              http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1604/S00338/paul-henry-hits-2016-ratings-high-tv3-wins-friday-night.htm

              Tried to do it by monthly but its not always easy to find the viewing stats
              • save nz …

                3 June 2016 at 4:53 pm

                Thats because TV ratings are as relevant as winning lotto statistically… something like 600 over 4.5 million people. You do the math. Then moderated by the TV companies.
          • Robert Guyton 10.1.1.2.2

            3 June 2016 at 2:44 pm

            “leanings”?

            Nice, gentle, forgiving word, “leanings”.

            Bullshit.
          • Rodel 10.1.1.2.3

            3 June 2016 at 9:01 pm

            With all due respect I’m pretty sure most people would know that Paul Henry’s an unpleasant person and so his political leanings are on the right, its not really a big surprise
    • Reddelusion 10.2

      3 June 2016 at 5:43 pm

      Why do you watch the show if Henry is Tory scum, he loves the hate mail it builds his ratings. I can’t really understand why you hate him, most of what he does and says is hilarious with no malice and for effect, people with thin skins simply choose to be offended
11. adam 11

    3 June 2016 at 9:27 am

    So if it is true, and the labour party has only about 5k members – give or take.

    Then has the time come to announce their death? With those numbers they look like the Bolsheviks, representing just over 0.1% of the population. National are not much better at something like 0.6% of the population as members – but they at least do politics in the interests of the 0.6%

    Is it not well past time that people on the left did what was best for the people rather than let a tired old bunch of professionals and technocrats telling them what is best for them. Because if the third way taught us anything, it was that the professional left is a nasty vicious piece of work.

    A whole lot of electorates are up for grabs – take your pick from lazy, to the down right awful Labour MP’s. Mix in those neo-con muppets who have sold working people down the river in the first place.

    And a left wing government looks viable.
    • mac1 11.1

      3 June 2016 at 10:57 am

      “So if it is true”. There’s a lot of prognosticating going on here and with Chris Trotter based on an “if”.

      What if Trotter were wrong? His guess of 2000 ordinary members spread over 67 electorates means about 30 members per electorate. My electorate is a ‘safe’ National rural provincial seat, yet this number attended this years electorate committee AGM.

      Go figure as to the accuracy of Trotter’s claim.
      • McFlock 11.1.1

        3 June 2016 at 12:06 pm

        +1
      • adam 11.1.2

        3 June 2016 at 12:19 pm

        So you are saying the future of the Labour party is more falling membership?

        My point, is in a MMP environment, why should the left bow down to any party? Why should labour be uncontested in electorates when it puts forward non-left candidates.

        I’d also point out the vaunted labour war chest no longer exists. So left wing people should stand in electorates, because labour does not have the money. Labour still gets list MP’s with it’s party vote.
        • Ad 11.1.2.1

          3 June 2016 at 1:00 pm

          The hard left could keep voting Mana, and all the best to them, bowing and all.
          • adam 11.1.2.1.1

            3 June 2016 at 1:05 pm

            Missed my point, but OK. Love the irony with Kelvin Davies though.
        • mac1 11.1.2.2

          3 June 2016 at 5:43 pm

          Adam, I’m saying nothing about what you think I’m saying. I have merely pointed out that Trotter, and therefore you, may (have allowed your feelings for Labour to colour your figures and thinking and ) have constructed an argument based on a premise that has not been substantiated- i.e. Labour has only 2000 members or 6000 if you count affiliates.

          I point out your conditional argument. You want now to accord me even more thinking than I have put forward. There is no “so” for you to fly with.

          I say Trotter is wrong, in my experience. “So”, it is up to you to justify that figure to allow all the rest of your argument any validity.

          BTW, I have been a member for forty plus years. The branch I joined in1974 had 1500 members! Of course, the membership is dropping. It is a phenomenon with many causes, all but one have to do with your major gripe-that Labour is no longer a party of the Left. It’s also no longer 1975. It’s a different world with different working patterns, life styles, media, upbringing, literature, songs, history, education, union membership, TV, films, family structures, social pressures; all of these have impacted, and there are more than I can conjure up quickly and without research, upon why people join political parties in the numbers that they do.

          If people fell away from Labour because of their perceptions of how left is Left, then why did the more recent leftish parties- the Alliance, Mana et al.- not grow to bigger percentages? There are more reasons than you allow for.
          • adam 11.1.2.2.1

            3 June 2016 at 8:56 pm

            My point is quite simple really, labour is a political party. It has a small membership, it can’t speak for the left, like I can’t speak for the left. It is not all powerful, and people should make decisions based on what they think is right, not what is good for the labour party. In this case, the myth of labours war chest, and membership base is just that – mythology.

            It is beyond time good people stood in electorates against labour. If the party is not connecting, well that’s their issue, not one of the left, and people should get over it. No doubt some people will get upset with that assessment. Or label me loony lefty or what was Ads remark, ‘hard left’ what ever that means – personally I like Christian anarchist.
      • Colonial Viper 11.1.3

        3 June 2016 at 12:22 pm

        I know recent, but not the most up to date, figures for both Dunedin South and Dunedin North electorates. I also know the Clutha Southland numbers from when I was candidate there, but those numbers have grown.

        Judging from that the true figure of FINANCIAL members is probably under 5,000, but 2,000 is definitely too low an estimate. I would have picked between 4000 and 5000.

        If you include non-financial members the number will be over 5,000.

        Having said that I am fairly certain that membership numbers have fallen by thousands from when David Cunliffe was Leader, when the financial membership was at least 10K.
        • adam 11.1.3.1

          3 June 2016 at 12:43 pm

          That is still substantially less than national party membership.

          Also much lower than the historical membership numbers.

          But my point is, that labourights no longer have to be tolerated.
          • Bill 11.1.3.1.1

            3 June 2016 at 12:50 pm

            Just being a smart arse, but thought something might be said about labour rights and labourites…;-)
            • adam 11.1.3.1.1.1

              3 June 2016 at 1:05 pm

              Teehee, auto correct I love you…
      • Reddelusion 11.1.4

        3 June 2016 at 5:46 pm

        Obviuosly not much else on in the provinces, why not go watch a good comedy or Greek tragedy, irrespective of your political leanings 😀
        • mac1 11.1.4.1

          3 June 2016 at 6:01 pm

          Even better, act in a good comedy or tragedy. Drama is a good way to investigate political/social concerns. The last role I had, my character started as a gung ho King and Country soldier and ended by saying, “I went down to the river and threw all my medals into the water.” All sorts of political leanings saw that show- all were affected in some way. Living in the provinces does not necessarily mean we are ‘provincial’!
          • Reddelusion 11.1.4.1.1

            3 June 2016 at 7:43 pm

            Good point, love the provinces, 😀
12. Anne 12

    3 June 2016 at 10:23 am

    Oh dear, remember the tremendous fuss over Helen Clark’s speeding motorcade?
    Well, apparently it happens on almost a daily basis:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11649911
    • Bearded Git 12.1

      3 June 2016 at 10:59 am

      +1 Anne-my thoughts exactly when I read that.
    • The Lone Haranguer 12.2

      3 June 2016 at 1:47 pm

      Oh yeah, the good old days are still with us.

      I recall a trip from Napier to Gisborne where I was following/chasing a Crown Limo. I figured Parekura Horomia was in the back seat so we had double immunity on the Coast.

      In defence of the driver, neither s/he nor I exceeded 150kmh on the run up the East Coast.

      I do think that its the Limo drivers who love to speed knowing they are above the law, rather than any Poli’s pulling their ears and screaming “faster, Faster”
    • Reddelusion 12.3

      3 June 2016 at 5:51 pm

      Ah yes but Helen was quite happy to throw the driver in front of the bullets even though she was well aware and approving of the speeding
      • Anne 12.3.1

        3 June 2016 at 6:45 pm

        Liar! It had nothing to do with Helen Clark and you know it. The police laid the charges because the driver was one of their own and this has always been the course of action when a police officer is involved in an alleged law breaking incident. The Judge threw the case out and Helen Clark was then able to respond to the case by saying:

        ” She believed that the judge made the right decision”. Or words to the same effect.

        Tell the truth for a change.
13. Bearded Git 13

    3 June 2016 at 10:44 am

    Toby Manhire gets it right (as usual) on the Labour/Green pact.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11649618

    I liked Kevin Locke’s analysis this morning on Morning Report, especially where he said now the media should report the block vote for polls i.e. Lab/Gr 42% Gnats 46%.
    • Reddelusion 13.1

      3 June 2016 at 5:52 pm

      Gnats and nzf 58pc then
14. McFlock 14

    3 June 2016 at 12:10 pm

    Oh dear, with the loss of their great visionary leader who managed to tank tv3, Scout and Rachel Glucina are now on their way out.

    A blow for journalism in NZ. 😉
    • Wensleydale 14.1

      3 June 2016 at 2:48 pm

      What’s her “new opportunity”? Punching babies in the face and then laughing?
    • Macro 14.2

      3 June 2016 at 7:27 pm

      Oh dear!
      How sad!
      Never mind.
    • Rodel 14.3

      3 June 2016 at 8:57 pm

      I watched Glucina’s ‘scout’ trash twice. The second time because I couldn’t believe it the first time.
      I’m sure TV3 people were proud to be associated with it.(sarc).
      How awful can TV get.
      Dunno..ask Paddy Gower how low journalism can get? He is incredible . (i.e That is-not credible)
15. Ad 15

    3 June 2016 at 12:11 pm

    Crikey.

    The NZHerald and ZB Radio absolutely laying waste to Gerry Brownlee about failure of progress on the Christchurch rebuild:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11650090

    Sample quote:
    “If the convention centre was being led by a private company, then the CEO of that company would have been fired a long time ago for failing to deliver on the project.

    April 2019 has now been set as the latest operational completion date. That’s frankly disgusting, and Gerry Brownlee needs to front up and stop acting like a 12 year old whenever criticism comes his way.

    The report also shows the government initially wanted all negotiations around the convention centre to be finalised before CERA was disestablished. Well that hasn’t happened? So who’s going to take responsibility? Who’s protecting who? And who needs to be fired for failing Christchurch and its business community?”

    Not sure when in New Zealand I’ve anything more excoriating of a government Minister, without them being held to account by a Prime Minister.
    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      3 June 2016 at 12:27 pm

      When the top quintile start getting antsy, that’s when Governments fall.
    • b waghorn 15.2

      3 June 2016 at 12:42 pm

      Bodes well for when national anexs the super city council!!
      • Ad 15.2.1

        3 June 2016 at 1:07 pm

        Of this government, only Key is smart enough about Auckland not to take on responsibility for the entire Council’s functions. Ordinarily I’d expect all his jaw-jawing is simply focusing Auckland Council’s mind in preparation for August.

        But is he still so smart? He’s been so cack-handed lately it’s hard to really trust him to manage a proper conversation between Smith and Brownlee on the perils of trying to run/command-and-control/plan/influence either Christchurch or Auckland.

        There just doesn’t appear to be a real “lessons learned” from Christchurch being applied to Auckland at all. Other than in Treasury.

        Which – given these cities’ dominance of New Zealand into the future – strikes me as somewhat fatal for them, and not too good for the rest of us either.
    • adam 15.3

      3 June 2016 at 12:49 pm

      When I think of failed Crown Ministers – Gerry Brownlee, is quite close to the top of my list.

      Is Key unable to now to control any ministers? Or hold any to account?
      • Ad 15.3.1

        3 June 2016 at 3:22 pm

        His accountability standards have lowered substantially since the good of days when Craig Heatley stood down for something pretty minor. Pretty hard to raise them back up again in a different government.
16. Hami Shearlie 16

    3 June 2016 at 12:31 pm

    Do kiwis really believe that Pharmac is safe from the TPPA? A similar agreement between the US and the EU will put an end to the NHS in the UK according to leaked papers from the EU!!
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666454/NHS-EU-killed-off-Brexit-Remain-Leave-referendum-Brussels-European-Union
17. Gangnam Style 17

    3 June 2016 at 1:30 pm

    cough – f*scist state – cough

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11649957

    “Those in default and living in Australia will come under more scrutiny from next month, when a transtasman information-sharing agreement begins. It will cover contact details of student loan borrowers living in Australia.”

    One overseas womans $6000 student loan has ballooned over $30,000. “Will I be arrested at the airport?…how will I pay my mortgage if I’m detained in New Zealand, what will happen to my children in Australia if I’m detained?”

    Cue responses from all those who never fucked up in their lives …3-2-1-
    • Ad 17.1

      3 June 2016 at 4:48 pm

      What I did do was pay what I owed.
      They should.
      • McFlock 17.1.1

        3 June 2016 at 4:56 pm

        Even if I agreed that student loans should be paid back or even exist, that’s still a completely different argument to whether people should be arrested because of them.
        • Gangnam Style 17.1.1.1

          3 June 2016 at 6:02 pm

          No no McFlock, the full strength of the state MUST be used for naughty loan defaulters, “respect my athoritah!” & all that, like the poor children of poor familes they should just “jump back up your mother”, which came first the horse or the cart etc…

          “that’s still a completely different argument to whether people should be arrested because of them” – thank you, more succinct than mine.
      • dv 17.1.2

        3 June 2016 at 6:06 pm

        BUT the killer is the penalty and interest.
        • Reddelusion 17.1.2.1

          3 June 2016 at 7:55 pm

          We’ll pay it off quickly and don’t incur penalty or interest, by far the majority of non payers are just taking the piss of people who paid thier loans and tax payers who fund the loans who both are in exactly the same financial circumstances as the free loaders
          • dv 17.1.2.1.1

            3 June 2016 at 8:05 pm

            
            We’ll pay it off quickly and don’t incur penalty or interest

            Jeez why didn’t I think of that.
          • b waghorn 17.1.2.1.2

            3 June 2016 at 8:25 pm

            No taking the piss is getting a free education that takes you to top jobs ,then fucking over the kids of your peers
      • Draco T Bastard 17.1.3

        3 June 2016 at 7:58 pm

        Why?

        When someone loans someone money that person is taking the risk that they’re not going to get it back. We even have laws allowing for this to happen through bankruptcy (And a student, once they get through their course, is essentially bankrupt) and No Asset Procedure. Of course, the government has excused itself from those laws.

        So, we have rich people defaulting willy nilly on loans and other responsibilities while poor people get the boot put into them by the government in its persona of Loan Shark.
18. marty mars 18

    3 June 2016 at 1:33 pm

    the scary thing?

    This is just the very end of the tip of this type of horrendous exploitation and offending – the great mass of it is hidden – behind respectable facades and benign exteriors…

    A Christchurch activist and union organiser has admitted child abuse imagery charges.

    Joseph (Joe) Robert Davies, 60, pleaded guilty on Thursday to five charges brought by the Customs Department of possessing, distributing, and exporting objectionable material.

    The charges involve 44 videos and nine images, some involving bondage, and many involving penetrative sex between adults and children.

    Christchurch District Court Judge Tom Gilbert remanded Davies on bail for sentencing on August 31, and asked for a pre-sentence report to consider his suitability for home detention.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/80691436/christchurch-union-organiser-pleads-guilty-to-child-porn-charges

    And you know what? I don’t give a flying fuck if institutions are hurt by this, if movements are hurt – I deal with people who are the children grown from this shit and they are struggling to find reasons to exist and live. Fuck you exploiter.
    • Ad 18.1

      3 June 2016 at 4:49 pm

      Which union?
      • Bill 18.1.1

        3 June 2016 at 5:06 pm

        What difference?
      • BM 18.1.2

        3 June 2016 at 7:16 pm

        The National Distribution Union
19. joe90 19

    3 June 2016 at 2:19 pm

    Remember kids, floss before bong!

    Pot-Smokers Harm Gums; Other Physical Effects Slight

    Long-term study finds no differences in metabolism, lung function, inflammation

    Durham, NC – A long-term study of nearly 1,000 New Zealanders from birth to age 38 has found that people who smoked marijuana for up to 20 years have more gum disease, but otherwise do not show worse physical health than non-smokers.

    The international research team assessed a dozen measures of physical health, including lung function, systemic inflammation and several measures of metabolic syndrome, including waist circumference, HDL cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure, glucose control and body mass index.

    Tobacco users in the study, which appears online the week of June 1 in JAMA Psychiatry, were found to have gum disease as well as reduced lung function, systemic inflammation and indicators of poorer metabolic health.

    “We can see the physical health effects of tobacco smoking in this study, but we don’t see similar effects for cannabis smoking,” said Madeline Meier, an assistant professor of psychology at Arizona State University who conducted the study with colleagues at Duke University, King’s College in the UK and the University of Otago in New Zealand.

    https://today.duke.edu/2016/05/cannhealth
20. Robert Guyton 20

    3 June 2016 at 2:41 pm

    The Sallies call out Key.

    Key makes a claim, the Sallies say, that’s a lie, John.

    Goodness!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80725620/salvation-army-msd-homeless-visits-didnt-happen-and-the-pms-wrong
    • Bill 20.1

      3 June 2016 at 2:47 pm

      Why am I not surprised?

      Mind you, that the Salvation Army so publicly flat stick contradicts and criticises the PM’s public pronouncements – maybe that surprises me a little.
      • weka 20.1.1

        3 June 2016 at 2:59 pm

        I’m not too surprised. I think most social service agencies would not be too keen on the Prime Minister or any state official so grossly misrepresenting what they do to the public. Or lying about it.

        That article is great.

        Director Salvation Army social policy and parliamentary unit director Ian Hutson said it was important the “miscommunication” between his organisation and MSD was corrected in the public eye.

        The Prime Minister and the Minister for Social Housing Paula Bennett have been contacted for comment.

        MSD said addressed any queries on the incorrect statements to the Minister.

        It was continuing to “offer a community presence” in Auckland so people without a place to stay could get their help.

        Sallies calling the PM a liar.

        The MSD passing the buck to the Minister.

        The MSD admitting that it basically either doesn’t know what to do or isn’t allowed to do it’s job. And that people don’t trust them any more.

        Interesting position from the SA about not approaching people in cars too. FFS can you imagine having someone from the MSD knock on your window.
      • adam 20.1.2

        3 June 2016 at 3:03 pm

        It shouldn’t Bill, the relationship between the government and The Salvation Army has be deteriorating for sometime. The Salvation Army are rightly upset they are being left to carry the load – time after time after time.
      • Anne 20.1.3

        3 June 2016 at 4:02 pm

        Maybe the latest John Key-ism was one step too far for them.
21. ianmac 21

    3 June 2016 at 3:18 pm

    Well! It seems that the Clinton campaign has deliberately been mis-leading us all about the Super-delegates. They are NOT to be counted until the Convention in July. They change their minds. All is not yet lost for Bernie!

    “Not on a hot mic or during a commercial break, but live on the air, Luis Miranda, (communications director for the Democratic National Committee) in no uncertain terms, told Jake Tapper that the media should not be including them. Miranda said, “One of the problems is the way the media reports them. Any night that you have a primary or caucus, and the media lumps the Superdelegates in, that they basically polled by calling them up and saying who are you supporting, they don’t vote until the convention, and so they shouldn’t be included in any count.”
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election/king-clinton-media-counting-superdelegates-dnc-pleas-article-1.2655752?cid=bitly
22. Bill 22

    3 June 2016 at 4:43 pm

    Clever foxes get climate change…Do you? 😈

    Drivers in Tunbridge Wells have been left outraged after (…) foxes apparently chewed through the brake cables of several cars. Kent police have now warned drivers to check their brakes before setting off on journeys.

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/02/foxes-blamed-chewing-motorists-brake-cables
23. Wensleydale 23

    3 June 2016 at 5:10 pm

    WINZ tells man with cancer to get a job.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/80593373/cancer-sufferer-pleas-for-benefit-break

    Stay classy, National.
    • Barfly 23.1

      3 June 2016 at 5:40 pm

      FFS!
24. Paul 24

    3 June 2016 at 5:30 pm

    Another day has passed in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
    We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring ,nasty and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

    It’s predicted to be 5 degrees in Auckland tonight.
    3 degrees in Christchurch.

    Cold if you’re in a car.
    Cold if you’re in a garage.
    Cold if you’re on the street.
    • Reddelusion 24.1

      3 June 2016 at 5:57 pm

      Thanks Paul you should be a weather girl 😀, I was going to say metrologist but to much of a stretch
      • Gangnam Style 24.1.1

        3 June 2016 at 6:12 pm

        Laughing at other peoples misery, classy Red, you are all class.
        • Naki man 24.1.1.1

          3 June 2016 at 7:11 pm

          We all laugh at Pauls misery. He wallows in negativity.
          • dv 24.1.1.1.1

            3 June 2016 at 7:14 pm

            Not the only one naki- that is a very negative statement!!!!
          • Reddelusion 24.1.1.1.2

            3 June 2016 at 7:15 pm

            Exactly
          • Paul 24.1.1.1.3

            3 June 2016 at 7:21 pm

            Pull up the tinted window.
            • Reddelusion 24.1.1.1.3.1

              3 June 2016 at 7:28 pm

              If you open the Curtians and let reality in its a deal
          • Paul 24.1.1.1.4

            3 June 2016 at 9:57 pm

            Your comment only reinforces the point I made about NZ becoming cruel, nasty and uncaring.
25. Paul 25

    3 June 2016 at 7:09 pm

    About one in every 100 New Zealanders don’t have a home to call their own, according to a new study.
    Researchers from the University of Otago found that in 2013, more than 41,000 people were staying in severely crowded houses with family or friends, or in boarding houses, camping grounds, in cars or on the street.
26. Reddelusion 26

    3 June 2016 at 7:22 pm

    Less than 1 pc of pop, of that most will be random, ie there will a percentage as such no matter what you do, you can’t ignore it but don’t pimp it either or extrapolate to Paul’s and little angry andy absurdity that the county going to hell in a hand cart, which it is plainly not, cheer up son
    • BM 26.1

      3 June 2016 at 7:28 pm

      I think Paul’s one of those hair shirt wearing Christians.

      Never happy unless they’re miserable.
      • Reddelusion 26.1.1

        3 June 2016 at 7:33 pm

        coreection BM every one else has to be miserable as well,for the Paul to achieve peak happiness, hence socialism
      • Paul 26.1.2

        3 June 2016 at 9:55 pm

        A mean spirited point made by a citizen of Randistan.
        • Reddelision 26.1.2.1

          4 June 2016 at 1:20 pm

          Yes Paul, keep on parroting your manic moronic lines if it helps with the therapy
27. Paul 27

    3 June 2016 at 9:52 pm

    We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring ,nasty and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

    You have proved my point.
28. Rodel 28

    4 June 2016 at 12:27 am

    Just watched some of Duncan Garner’s whateverit’scalled show with shriekers shouting about the Labout-Greens memorandum of understanding and Garner desperately trying to sound like Hosking while his guests try equally desperately, but unsuccessfully to sound important. No idea who they are or why they are on TV…Awful bias TV much like the insincere fools on ‘Fox News’ attacking Obama and democrats at any cost.
    Oh for some real panel discussions on the issues of the day with someone of intellect.

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