Open mike 03/10/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 3rd, 2012 - 123 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

123 comments on “Open mike 03/10/2012 ”

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  1. T 1
    3 October 2012 at 6:27 am

    This isn’t political (society, internet culture and feminism might be relevant tags), but I thought it was interesting.. http://jezebel.com/5946643/reddit-users-attempt-to-shame-sikh-woman-get-righteously-schooled

    • prism 1.1
      3 October 2012 at 9:22 am

      T 1
      To the simple minded everybody who looks differently from what observers are used to are freaks who and it is OK to stare at them, point at them, draw other’s attention to them, let their children make loud comments about them etc. So this fits within this reaction from those who have never understood that they fill just one niche in society. It’s just not men looking at women, or vice versa, there are those who scan their surroundings at all times with a judgmental glance looking for anomalies from their approved normality. Disabled people know well about this reaction.

      And it could be regarded as a political matter. There was a saying that the personal is political. If the leaders and controllers of a country decide to control some reasonable personal behaviour, it becomes political. Smoking bans are political, and how they wide they are also, criminalising drugs is political, allowing hate speech and extended harrassment is political if it is sanctioned or ignored by authorities, bullying at school is a political matter, and the desire of authorities not to be responsible for upholding standards with reasonable tolerance for all is political.

    • weka 1.2
      3 October 2012 at 10:13 am

      Definitely political. The politics of:

      what happens when women don’t conform to conventional notions of beauty

      body autonomy

      gender, body and confusion in parts of the general population

      online social intercourse and “the seeping necrotic abscess that is Reddit”

      modern media and the loss of personal privacy

      ignorance of religion

       

      • Jokerman 1.2.1
        3 October 2012 at 9:52 pm

        We forfeit three-fourth of ourselves to be like other people.

        -Schopenhauer

        (now, regrettably, many of the admirable academy were virulent anti-semitics)

        there are two sides to every euro

        -Pan (the earlier renaissance man)

        The safest general characterisation of the (Great) European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato (an unhelpful universalist as history records)

        -Whitehead. paraphr.

        Night

        “…i read the news today..,Oh boy…”

    • joe90 1.3
      3 October 2012 at 11:44 am

      I was driving north with the SO last Saturday morning listening to Ms Hill talking to Mary Anne Franks about the troubling treatment of women on the WWW. The SO, who’s a particularly busy person with little time to piss around with the WWW, was appalled and doubly so when I cited the numerous instances I’ve seen of women being trolled on-line. Well worth the listen.

  2. David H 2
    3 October 2012 at 6:50 am

    Everyone knows that when you have an under performing team the first place you look is to the leader of that team, But not Shearer he will just tinker according to his instructions.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7749689/Shearer-hints-at-reshuffle-as-few-shine-in-front-row

    Should read: Shearer hints at reshuffle as only one shines in front row.

    And the performing one is not Shearer.

    • Kevin Welsh 2.1
      3 October 2012 at 9:00 am

      If performance is the prerequisite, then we can look forward to Cunliffe back in the Finance role.

      • KJT 2.1.1
        3 October 2012 at 9:28 am

        As leader, don’t you mean!

      • Bill 2.1.2
        3 October 2012 at 10:44 am

        If performance is the prerequisite…

        But it’s not. Internal politiking is the determining factor.

        So, as reflected in the bias of that stuff piece, promote those who are loyal to the deadwood faction – even though it’s an increasingly decayed irrelevance that has been rotting down since the 80’s. And cast doubts on those who espouse views in tune with core and traditional Social Democratic Labour Party values.

    • Dr Terry 2.2
      3 October 2012 at 10:18 am

      Shearer says, “I’m certainly looking at where we can improve”. Clearly he avoids the mirror! He and Key are alike in that they are Captains who cast blame for shipwrecks on the crew. I never thought I would find myself looking back on “the good old days of Goff”!
      Robertson is a forceful speaker, Cunliffe combines skills in oratory with high intelligence. Oh, what does it take?

  3. David H 3
    3 October 2012 at 7:51 am

    Just been watching Grant Robertson on TV3, don’t ask me what he was saying , because I was way too busy trying to work out who threw his clothes at him His tie is lined under his right eye. Now me I am a Jeans and Tea Shirt guy But if I have to wear a tie (do I own one Hmmm) at least I would make sure it’s straight, to say nothing about being on National Television. If you have to wear a suit and tie, at least make sure you don’t look like you just threw on the first thing that came to hand.

    Labour is just looking more and more used, second hand, out of date.

    • tc 3.1
      3 October 2012 at 8:19 am

      That’s what you get when the same strategy and team that lead you to defeat in 08 and 11 are still calling the shots…quack quack. No Goff on the election billboards was a stupid move IMO as he rattled Johnny sparkles in the debates yet there was no image association on each labour billboard for some consistency.

      Fresh thinking via new blood is required, DS doesn’t have to go but the messaging is woeful and media training is desperately needed to keep our shonky MSM from parroting the CT/NACT spin lines .

      GR has his moments but media training teaches you it’s the bad ones that often outweigh all the good ones so you gotta be on your game and nail every chance.

  4. DeeDubaya 4
    3 October 2012 at 8:04 am

    Is anyone else a little uncomfortable that the host of Backbenchers is now seemingly pimping for a corporate’s greenwash TV campaign? I mean, that particular company still use palm oil in everything BUT their ‘most popular’ NZ product, right?

    • Lanthanide 4.1
      3 October 2012 at 8:41 am

      Evidently he doesn’t mind tarnishing his own brand.

    • prism 4.2
      3 October 2012 at 9:32 am

      Haven’t heard about this. What company uses palm oil extensively?

      • idlegus 4.2.1
        3 October 2012 at 9:39 am

        they talked about it on tv3s the nation.im personally appalled, & now hes on radiolive in the mornings…gotta pay them bills. cadburys is what hes advertising.

        • tc 4.2.1.1
          3 October 2012 at 10:49 am

          Had some cadbury last week after being on whittakers for years….what absolute shite it was, threw over half away.

          Buy local people especially in this case as it’s a far superior product.

      • Lanthanide 4.2.2
        3 October 2012 at 12:43 pm

        No (chocolate) company in NZ.

        Cadbury’s switched back after the outcry and have never recovered their market position. It came at the same time as they moved some production to Australia and made block sizes smaller – perfect storm to stick in people’s memories. If they’d done each change 12 months apart it probably would have been fine.

        • prism 4.2.2.1
          3 October 2012 at 12:55 pm

          Lanthanide
          I read no chocolate company in NZ and was shocked . So I grabbed a wrapper of my recent peanut slab and ..it’s imported by Singapore: Lucas Foods (Asia) Pte Ltd. 160
          Paya Lebar Road. Quite an appropriate address. So Le Bar has gone from NZ as all good things seem to do.

          I guess the answer is to buy local from the premises where things are made and make sure that some of our money manages to go and stay into the pocket of a resident working here and paying tax here. Please look round for a local you can support. I try and break myself of the supermarket habit and go to the Green Grocer in Tasman Street, Nelson where you can buy biogro products.

          We had a Buy New Zealand programme when Labour was in. How successful was that? How easily can it be started and does it need volunteer promoters in each town and suburb saying which products are made locally and selling their good points?

          • David H 4.2.2.1.1
            3 October 2012 at 1:44 pm

            The Chocolate Factory in Pram is good..

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.2.1.2
            3 October 2012 at 4:39 pm

            So I grabbed a wrapper of my recent peanut slab and ..it’s imported by Singapore: Lucas Foods (Asia) Pte Ltd.

            Obviously not a Whittaker’s peanut slab:

            All Whittaker’s products are made in our factory in Porirua, Wellington.

        • DeeDubaya 4.2.2.2
          3 October 2012 at 1:09 pm

          Actually I think you’ll find they only changed ‘Dairy Milk’ and continue to use palm oil in most of their other products.

          ” There remains some of our chocolate blocks – those containing inclusions, caramels, creams and/or wafers – where we are currently unable to make the product without the inclusion of a small quantity of palm oil. ”
          (Source: Cadbury website)

          • Lanthanide 4.2.2.2.1
            3 October 2012 at 6:20 pm

            Ok, but was that always the case? They may have been using palm oil in those products all along. I suspect also the direct reference to ‘inclusions’ etc is because the palm oil is in those parts, not the actual chocolate itself.

            The outcry was because they replaced cocoa butter – one of the main ingredients in chocolate, with palm oil. The fact that they may still use palm oil in their products is rather immaterial to the point that they went back to using cocoa butter.

  5. Logie97 5
    3 October 2012 at 8:30 am

    Failing the writing standards.
    Now to all those worried parents out there who want to know if their children are meeting the writing standard, do you know what the question is?
    For your information, there are several different genre.
    Your children might be able to write a coherent “persuasive” piece but be crap at a narrative.
    Are you expecting the schooling system to make your children best selling authors or be able to write letters to their MP. Truth is you probably don’t really care, as long as they can spell, punctuate, and order their thoughts.

  6. ianmac 6
    3 October 2012 at 8:45 am

    Then the difficulty of choosing quality:
    A. The cat sat on the mat. (Simple,clear, error free.)
    B. The cat was so anry her tale twiched her eyes glowd like dagers (4 spelling errors, 3 full stops missing.)
    C. The big black friendly cat sat on the colourful red fluffy mat. (error free.)

    Now which is a pass for a 7 year old child? So many variables.

    • marsman 6.1
      3 October 2012 at 9:13 am

      Exactly ianmac. Hence-

      High error rate in National Standards marking | Stuff.co.nz

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/7761584/High-error-rate-in-National-Standards-marking

      • KJT 6.1.1
        3 October 2012 at 9:29 am

        Surprise, Surprise!

      • Dv 6.1.2
        3 October 2012 at 11:08 am

        >High error rate in National Standards marking
        BUT by what judgement.
        OK there was a lot of variation.

        What was expected?
        I recall Mallard trying to get Tolley to explain what some standards meant in parliament. She couldn’t.

        Moderation!!!!

        OH and how accurate were the ministry on roll numbers and number of building in ChCh schools.

        • ianmac 6.1.2.1
          3 October 2012 at 5:08 pm

          I met an Australian teacher a few years ago who was tasked with moderating Primary School Writing across Australia. She said that she was exhausted after 6 months because none of the teachers could agree with just what good writing was. Some teachers, she said, were so cross that they said that they would get the children to write in short sentences with no word longer than one syllable and thus could not be found to make any errors.
          As opposed to their current efforts to get writers to choose just the right word for the writing depending on the designated audience, the right genre, and constantly stretching out for new challenges.
          Stuff that.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.3
        3 October 2012 at 11:46 am

        Notice how that article was all about the teachers being wrong.

      • insider 6.1.4
        3 October 2012 at 5:02 pm

        I don’t believe this is a national standards issue. This is inherent in the NCEA or unit standards approach of modern education.

        Apparantly you can pass English all the way through secondary school and never have to study Shakespeare, let alone pass a unit on it.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.4.1
          3 October 2012 at 5:51 pm

          Apparantly you can pass English all the way through secondary school and never have to study Shakespeare, let alone pass a unit on it.

          There’s more to English than dead poets.

          [lprent: ummm I feel the same. However I KNOW that Lyn regards that statement as a flamewar starter for 10 points… Just saying.. ]

          • QoT 6.1.4.1.1
            3 October 2012 at 6:55 pm

            BLASPHEMY. And it’s not “dead poets”, Draco, it’s a very specific dead poet, because what good is reading Aristophanes or Chaucer or Pope or Swift (and if you insist on Kiwi examples, Baxter) unless you’ve also been forced at gunpoint to write an essay on Romeo & Juliet?

            (My examples are limited to certain periods of literature, I know, but guess what English lit papers I did at uni?)

            • felix 6.1.4.1.1.1
              3 October 2012 at 7:18 pm

              Shakespeare? Shakes-meh more like.

            • Ad 6.1.4.1.1.2
              3 October 2012 at 8:29 pm

              Absolutely QoT.

              All these people who waffle about quoting dead theorists, deploying arcane glossaries in their posts, but turn their noses up at poetic thought.

              Whereas you do both, and it’s a far more flexible manner of thinking.

              Keep raising the standard QoT – these old plonkers need it.

              • QoT …
                3 October 2012 at 9:24 pm

                Thanks Ad, though I’ll note that at varsity they always sucker you into Chaucer with The Miller’s Tale so it ain’t all high-minded stuff!

                • Ad …
                  3 October 2012 at 9:34 pm

                  No Lord of the Rings, Return of the King, all the jobs, all the academy awards, or indeed the whole revived film industry within The Hobbit. Just in case learning Scandinavian, Germanic, and Middle English were no economic use, mid-brow, lowbrow, or high. Buckle in you non-dead-poets-society people.

            • mac1 6.1.4.1.1.3
              3 October 2012 at 9:35 pm

              QoT, I was so forced, willingly. The highlight of my trip to Perth WA was to see Romeo and Juliet performed outdoors after a picnic tea on the grass, especially when Juliet came out onto the balcony and commented on the moon rising over the trees.

              And it BLOODY WAS!

              The Kookaburras in the first act, however, were a little whatever the geographical/auditory equivalent of anachronistic is.

          • millsy 6.1.4.1.2
            3 October 2012 at 7:26 pm

            Cant be bothered with all that thou thee doth crapeth.

            Romeo and Juliet, Merchant of Venice and Othello were the ones inflicted on me…

    • prism 6.2
      3 October 2012 at 9:54 am

      I’m looking at thought and imagination showing in the sentence and like B. I believe that teachers and education professionals think that the Nat Standards will result in concentrating teaching on A. That would produce neat and tidy and limited thinkers. Just like what we have now (is that good grammar but do you still understand my meaning?) It seems that Nat Standards are actually tests for teachers and schools, not children. It certainly doesn’t support teachers in their difficult job, and doesn’t support children gain the type of education that we need in the fraught 21st century.

      The education method then in fashion seemed to lack steps for new readers when my children were young. I was always keen to see them reading well, and I encouraged them to break down new big words into syllables and then tackle the whole thing rather than shrink from coping with large words as a whole in the teachers desire to encourage word recognition. My way helped and they read successfully, and can now read Nietzsche and understand it.

      Giving the latest education medicine to all isn’t bound to get good results, first the medicine might be bad or fake, and second because we are dealing with individuals both wonderful and diverse. Only despotic Sauron specifies One Ring (or education method) for all.

  7. marsman 7
    3 October 2012 at 9:19 am

    Kiwirail has decided to mothball the Gisborne Napier line. The NZ Roading Transport agency is going to upgrade the road between the two cities so that that the bigger voluble of tucks resulting from the rail closure will have better roads to wreck. Sheer lunacy.

    • prism 7.1
      3 October 2012 at 10:05 am

      The Gisborne area needs to have good roads for access to and from the district, PLUS a railway to take the heavy lifting. They had just gained large containers and I understand were able to be transported over the narrow points on the line.

      So Gisborne rail doesn’t pay by $2.4 million annnually. So why should the cost not be carried for a period because of being a remote area, (from the north-south main routes). How can the regions realise their full enterprise potential without guaranteed infrastructure and reliable transport extending into the future. Peak oil has come, fuel will get dearer and scarcer. Apparently these twerps in power can’t think beyond one or two electoral cycles.

      • weka 7.1.1
        3 October 2012 at 10:16 am

        What is likely to happen to the railway lines themselves? Will they be left in place?

        • the pink postman 7.1.1.1
          3 October 2012 at 3:08 pm

          They will disappear overnight and some scrap metal agent will melt it down and some hard up husband wilL put food on the table for his family. And Collins will rage about about how she is going to take a tough stance on rail,line thieves by crushing their cars into scrapmetal.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2
        3 October 2012 at 12:00 pm

        Apparently these twerps in power can’t think beyond one or two electoral cycles.

        Actually, they can’t think beyond increasing profits for their backers which, in this case, would be the Roading Transport Lobby (or whatever it’s called).

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2
      3 October 2012 at 11:57 am

      And it’s probably going to cost more to upgrade the road than it would to fix the rail line.

    • millsy 7.3
      3 October 2012 at 7:36 pm

      Please shield the eyes of any children reading this:

      Fuck Kiwirail, fuck Jim Quinn, fuck National, fuck Jerry Brownlee, fuck the government, and fuck those who voted National.

      You may unshield their eyes now.

      The decision to close the line was made by an anti rail National government, who believe that rail is obsolete and trucks are the future.

      • karol 7.3.1
        3 October 2012 at 9:06 pm

        You may unshield their eyes now

        Hmmmm. Just as well I didn’t then.

        But I agree with the sentiment, especially the last sentence.

  8. KJT 8
    3 October 2012 at 9:31 am

    More lunacy which will bite us in the backside when imported oil is $10 a litre. If we can get any at all.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1
      3 October 2012 at 9:59 am

      The way energy driven economic decline is likely to work is not only the cost of petrol continue to edge up over time, but people’s incomes available to buy it will also be declining all the same while. Its a double whammy.

    • prism 8.2
      3 October 2012 at 12:21 pm

      kjt
      Don’t worry about that, we have found oil and gas deposits and be able to drill into the sea here and there. No worries mate.

      The Rena hasn’t taught us anything about the cost and destruction of habitat, fauna and flora, and how we people would have to bear cost for cleaning up. The Rena is still costing us $20 million as well as the spending by the owners, and have they paid up everyone yet? and is that just what’s been spent already and is there enough for the other needed work??

      Also the oil disaster in the Gulf, also the Exxon disaster where there were agreements about ready clean up units, officials meant to be checking, laws and careful politicians to ensure that all was well, all missing by the time it happened. The problem was that it took too long for the oil to spill from the start of piping it off – a generation. It seems that human beings ability to take care, be ready for disasters etc can’t last for say more than a couple of years beyond a decade.

      Heartfelt promises today, written into law tomorrow, buried under further laws and matey relationships with baubles involved between supervisory bodies and corporates and what do you get!! Guess. It would happen here just the same, so some oil spills are inevitable. The only thing that might save us would be if the oil ran out quickly before the alert and keen instigators were overtaken by a bunch of hearty red neck contractors looking for the fastest way to do the littlest amount under their set price contracts.

  9. Chris 9
    3 October 2012 at 9:34 am

    jkey at Post Cabinet Press Conference on comments by Winnie P. regarding trip to lala land.”I am interested in jobs,not people who live in Fantasyland and want to Make Things Up” He should look in the mirror or do they not have them on Planet Key.Ha Ha Bonk.Laughed my head off at the irony!!!

  10. prism 10
    3 October 2012 at 10:23 am

    Chester Borrows is against paper based use in the justice system. The changes he is proposing are swingeing. They would result in secret shady transactions that don’t get the publicity that is needed for exposing and proving malfeasance by the wealthy, and for the poor the same disgraceful, shoddy and burdensome approach from government to handle their requirements that we have seen in Housing NZ will further deny them to access to a fair justice system with even less legal aid and services.

    Justice should be done, and seen to be done. Being called to account for apparent wrongdoing should be carried out in public with paper records that can’t be transmitted worldwide, or alternatively lost unless properly backed up and stored in a millisecond. There is a place for today’s computer technology but not to replace completely the human society services that we have developed.

    The darker imaginings of films and books on possible future scenarios for society are being played out in reality. These shrivelled little personalities that have got into politics, and have got into many of the top bureaucrat jobs, have no thought and care for their fellow humans and what they are creating for them. It’s all just a game of chess to them. If you are clever enough you win, and for the Secretary of Education that apparently amounts to over half a million dollars (ANNUALLY).

    That’s while charitable organisations like hospice and parent support have to work continuously
    to get money and pay their workers possibly the minimum and the managers get only an extra 30% if they are lucky.

  11. Dr Terry 11
    3 October 2012 at 10:26 am

    Key should do well in Hollywood, for who can put on better “acts”? Probably he will spend a lot of time at Disneyland with all the kids (sorry, forgot that he does not like kids).

  12. Red Rosa 12
    3 October 2012 at 11:44 am

    Minister issues visa, minister revokes visa.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/mike-tyson-s-visa-revoked-minister-5113005/video?vid=5112237

    ‘Potential role model’ one day, barred the next. This story has everything! Love those boxing clips.

    Ministerial footwork worth of a champ, though Wilkinson looks more like a flyweight.

    Calamity Kate, the Iron Mike Lady.

    • aerobubble 12.1
      3 October 2012 at 1:08 pm

      A member of the board wrote a letter to the Minister and the minister’s staff don’t
      double check that she will be letting a rapist into the country. Sorry, did I just
      wake up in a country not being run by the law and order party???? Banks not
      reading what he is signing??? Hide covering for child identity theft???
      Key not knowing the richest man in his electorate???? Now a minister
      charging a member of some board that they were misrepresenting themselves
      as speaking for the whole board.

      National imploding.

  13. gobsmacked 13
    3 October 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Revealed – Key WAS briefed about Dotcom – previously denied. He’s in deep.

    (see Key thread)

  14. Rosie 14
    3 October 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Sometimes, despite myself, I do things that could be injurous to my health, (increased blood pressure, headaches etc) such as reading, and even participating in the comments section on Stuff.co.nz. I know that some of you also listen to talkback every now and again, also putting yourselves at risk of decreased well being. Both these activities however can illustrate to us the cognitive psychology of posters and talk back callers at work and consequently behind the election of a National Govt, not only once but twice.

    If you ever felt sometimes that you are surrounded by idiots and wanted more proof of this then check out the response to the article on Stuff yesterday about Daisy the GE cow (which you also discussed on Open Mike) There are many people who haven’t even bothered to read the article before posting their opinions.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/7757038/Strong-opposition-to-GE-milk

    • weka 14.1
      3 October 2012 at 12:26 pm

      Does Stuff really not allow comments to be read in chronological order???

      Anyhoo, I liked this comment –

      “Not sure what your point is C.Dub. I am the parent of a young child who is both diabetic and allergic to milk.

      Without insulin she would die so I don’t give a damn where the stuff comes from. GE, E Coli. dead animals, fetid dingo kidneys, pffft. You do what you have to to keep your kid alive.

      If she wants milk, we give her soy or rice milk. What’s the big deal? I guess there may be a market for GE modified hypoallergenic milk but it sure as hell isn’t in my household.

      It reminds me of the story (possibly apocryphal) of the Americans spending millions developing a ballpoint pen that works in space while the Russians used pencils.”

      • Rosie 14.1.1
        3 October 2012 at 1:26 pm

        Hi Weka.Yes, I liked that comment too.

        Re Stuff comment section. There is usually a button to click for ‘read first’, ie in chronological order, otherwise the most recent comments appear first. You can’t reply to a reply of an original comment. I’ve had to reply to myself in order to respond to someone regarding the topic of labelling.

        I guess what has disturbed me, not only about the ongoing GE ‘allergy free milk”project, which is alarming in itself, is that the majority of comments are pro GE but none of those comments have a sound basis to them. This is the opposite to say, the early to mid 90’s when a good chunk of the population was informed about GE and fervently anti gene technology in food (and I stress food, not medicine) and there was much protest. It was a really urgent and hot issue. It feels like we have now just given in and accepted what many to believe to be inevitable, in the NZ context in regard to production and marketing. Any safe guards we have in place now will will wiped by the TPPA.

        So what has changed in the population? Why do we just roll over? Are we so accustomed to spin, (eg crosby textor stylez) both social and political, that we accept what we are told?

        • weka 14.1.1.1
          3 October 2012 at 3:01 pm

          Could also be astroturfing.
           
          I don’t comment on news sites because the login is too laborious. I’d like to know how much that changes who posts in comments.

          And so many people just don’t bother with the MSM now.

          I think we’d have to look at some good research on public opinion in GE to now how people feel now.

           

      • QoT 14.1.2
        3 October 2012 at 9:27 pm

        From vague memory, almost certainly apocryphal on the pencil story, weka (at least, the “lesson” you’re meant to take from it) – pencils can break, and no one wants pointy bits of graphite floating around in zero-g.

    • David H 14.2
      3 October 2012 at 4:14 pm

      It’s a wonder the Knee jerk didn’t break their own stupid necks.

      This is one of the reasons I gave Stuff up, that and their silly redesign. And it’s a pity as it was a good site before the ‘downgrade’

      • Rosie 14.2.1
        3 October 2012 at 4:47 pm

        Hi David H. I normally try to avoid getting caught up in their comment section and rarely use the site these days (preferring http://www.scoop.co.nz) but when I do, I always regret it. I have lost faith in the average NZer, to be able to be a fair and resonable person, to think for themselves, to stand up, and to stand by one another in support. (In every aspect of life, not just on stuff comments) Every time I get embroiled in a comment thread I feel a little more of me dies. Its like a cloud of doom descends when I read those retarded comments. Its talkback online really.

        What chocolate shop in P’ram by the way? Must have missed that, haven’t been to the hometown for ages.

        • muzza 14.2.1.1
          3 October 2012 at 5:00 pm

          Every time I get embroiled in a comment thread I feel a little more of me dies. Its like a cloud of doom descends when I read those retarded comments. Its talkback online really.

          Hi Rosie, I know exactly what you mean. I like to think that the talkback MSM crowd does not really reflect society, and mostly it doesnt. They make up the “influential” part of it in many ways, and thats what I find hard to deal with at times.

          The sad part is that if they could only see or understand that they are on the chopping block too, they would not carry on the way they do. I’ve said it before, the human experiment is destined to fail, because too many have absorbed the lies they have been told, and the life they have been sold.

          Don’t let it rob you of energy though (stay away from the MSM), and keep the good stuff flowing through your life.

          • Rosie 14.2.1.1.1
            3 October 2012 at 5:28 pm

            Heard. Cheers Muzza. You’re right. Hanging back from the msm can prevent downers and help one to stay focused and positive. However, one can’t avoid dealing with FWit ears- of -cloth -environment -destroying property developers, which has been a task attended to today and is ongoing and unresolved – which further blackened the ‘loss of faith in humanity” theme going on.

            Might go get a bit zen like now……….Thanks for your wisdom.

        • David H 14.2.1.2
          3 October 2012 at 10:00 pm

          The Chocolate Factory on the corner of State Hwy 1 heading north side and Raumati rd. MMmmm they even do tours with choccy thrown in lol.

          I read the MSM maybe in hope that the comments section won’t be filled with vitriol against those that are poor and down on their luck or on the DPB. But no, I get disappointed as usual at least 10 times a day. I will link to this article I found this morning as the comments section had been closed and it was just a cess pit of hatred. I just went to get the link and the comments section has been erased all gone except for 4 Typical MSM Or maybe they got complaints. But you may have seen the story.
          http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/7757971/Hamilton-women-lead-protest

  15. aerobubble 15
    3 October 2012 at 12:57 pm

    What would genetic pollution look like? A cow
    incapable of producing a necessary part of calf
    milk in order to supply a human anti-allergy milk?

  16. captain hook 16
    3 October 2012 at 2:02 pm

    So has POAL been sold to the management yet?

  17. BLiP 17
    3 October 2012 at 2:51 pm

    .

    Eight grand? Really – eight thousand dollars for an office partition? Because the office layout “just really didn’t work”? Oh, FFS!!!eleventyone!!!

    • David H 17.1
      3 October 2012 at 4:25 pm

      Ever heard of false walls??? you wheel em in, and when you finished you wheel em out again cost ?? coupla hundy.

    • weka 17.2
      3 October 2012 at 10:33 pm

      “Trade Minister Tim Groser has spent $8000 rebuilding an office wall that Social Development Minister Paula Bennett had taken down.”

      Lol. Really, that is pretty funny, in a very dark sort of way. Then, more soberly, it says alot about NACT.

  18. Hilary 18
    3 October 2012 at 3:11 pm

    What is this about – and has it got anything to do with the whole Sky City thing earlier this year?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/7762416/National-Party-president-among-restaurateurs-victims

  19. insider 19
    3 October 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Uh oh Back Bencher on fire again…can lightning strike twice in the same place?

  20. Pete 20
    3 October 2012 at 4:33 pm

    If certain quarters continue to insist the NZ Labour Party model itself on the British Labour Party approach, they should check out reaction to the UKLP’s conference – Ed Miliband’s speech, especially, and note that the Brits have changed tack:

    Ed Miliband made it abundantly clear that Labour will get us off the miserable path dug by this government. His speech marks the long-awaited rebirth of a radical social democracy in this country. We can now start hoping once again. In particular, working-class people can feel that the party is back on their side.

    He drew a line under most of the blunders and misconceptions of the new Labour years. His “one nation” is not the triangulated, all-things-to-all-people message associated with Tony Blair. Instead he targeted the banks and Murdoch without poking at working people’s unions. The country has been waiting to hear that from a political leader since 2008 at least.

    Miliband’s promise is to restore our country to its people. Decent homes and services; fairness before favours for the rich and powerful; our NHS back where it belongs, in public hands – these will make us thrive again.

    Labour must speak for the public against the rampage of private interests. Speak for the people whose talents are wasted and aspirations destroyed. Shake up our banks and take back our NHS. And yes, put the burden on those with the broadest shoulders. That is the agenda set out today.

    A faint heart never won a fair election. Miiband has shown he’s more than ready to do battle in 2015. This is a shot in the arm for the labour movement.

    • Bill 20.1
      3 October 2012 at 4:51 pm

      Thing is, north of the border Labour are seeking to scrap free universal care for old people, eye prescriptions and so on. But hey…

      • Te Reo Putake 20.1.1
        3 October 2012 at 4:57 pm

        Bullshit, Bill. A more accurate description would be that Labour want to end the subsidies to the rich, something I’m surprised you do not favour.

        • Bill 20.1.1.1
          3 October 2012 at 5:07 pm

          Removal of universal care is an absolutely accurate descripton of what Labour are advocating. Which can only be replaced with user pays for some segments of the population. Something I’m very surprised to learn you’re favour of TRP.

          She (Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont) notes that £57m goes on free prescriptions but ignores the costs of about £30m which would be spent administering a system to charge about 20% of people for their prescriptions.

          She is wrong to say that this is about rich people getting free medicine. Depending on a person’s condition even a wealthy banker would still get free prescriptions as the old system was both means-tested and clinically-driven.

          http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/letters/cost-of-universal-benefits-pales-into-insignificance-beside-trident.19037504

          • Te Reo Putake 20.1.1.1.1
            3 October 2012 at 5:15 pm

            Bill, if you make disingenious attacks, expect to get called on it. I’m going to take the side of the poor and the working class in Scotland, you’re free to go with Salmond’s tartan tories and his BFF Rupert Murdoch if you want.

            • Bill 20.1.1.1.1.1
              3 October 2012 at 5:27 pm

              So if you think my comment is disingenioous, call me on it! Or is the throwing around of way off the mark labels as good as it’s going to get? Those ‘tartan tories’ as you call them are far to the left of Labour and are the one’s (to offer just one example) who have made sure tertiary education has remained free. Which is a kind of good thing for poor and working class people, no?

              • Te Reo Putake …
                3 October 2012 at 6:40 pm

                I did call you on it, Bill. And check the link above, it’ll tell you all you obviously don’t know.

                • Bill …
                  3 October 2012 at 6:50 pm

                  The BBC piece titled “Scottish Labour’s Johann Lamont attacks SNP benefits policy”?

                  Yup. Read it. And where did it say that Labour wasn’t attacking the idea of universal benefits? I mean, did the last para or two completely sail right on over your head? She wants to scrap free presciptions and…

                  The Scottish MSP’s appearance at the Labour conference comes the day after a speech by the Labour First Minister of Wales, Carwyn Jones.

                  He said free prescriptions would remain a commitment for Labour at the next Welsh assembly election.

                  Mr Jones pledged the NHS would continue to be safe under his stewardship, “holding true to Nye Bevan’s vision after six decades”.

                  • Te Reo Putake …
                    3 October 2012 at 7:05 pm

                    Clearly you don’t get it. You have chosen the side Rupert Murdoch prefers. That’s surprising coming from you, but you may completely and totally ignorant about Scottish politics. It certainly appeears so.
                     
                    Scotland has been forced to swallow an economic dead rat. The SNP have decided that’s appropriate tucker for the poor, the Scottish Labour party want the rich to make the sacrifice. You have chosen to back the rich in order to make a sectarian attack on Labour. More fool you.

                    • Bill …
                      3 October 2012 at 7:13 pm

                      No TRP. I know a fair bit about what underpins Scottish politics. And just as I have opinions on the SD politics of NZ although I don’t subscribe to SD as a system of governance, so it is with Scottish politics. And facts are facts. The SNP has been consistently to the left of Labour on social policy. Scottish Labour is now contradicting Welsh and English (British) Labour on benefits.

                      But this ‘dead rat’ you speak of…what’s that? Universal benefits? If that’s what you’re referring to, I recommend you read Oxfam’s(?) recent report on the English care system (not free) that tallies up the cost to the economy (some billions) because people have to give up work to look after sick people and claim benefits in place of a wage.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      3 October 2012 at 7:31 pm

                      Bill, Britain is broke, and Scotland as usual is getting the rough end of the pineapple. The SNP have moved to the right, Salmond in porticular is extremely pro-business, hence his backing from the Murdoch press. Salmond is prepared to deal to working Scots and the Scottish poor as long as he gets a referendum. Which he will lose, as the majority are convinced that remaining in the UK is the way forward (Andy Murray finally winning something at the Olympics probably helps). The SNP’s popular support has plummetted, because, in Government, they have not delivered for their voters.
                       
                      That doesn’t mean Labour have the all the answers, but if the question is ‘who should pay for the economic crisis?’ the SNP haven’t got a clue.

                    • Bill …
                      3 October 2012 at 7:51 pm

                      Oops. Not Oxfam. Here are the links, including the source material

                      http://www.carersuk.org/newsroom/item/2617-care-in-crisis-more-than-53-billion-wiped-from-the-economy

                      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/healthandsocialcare/2012/04/25/dr-linda-pickard-public-expenditure-costs-of-carers-leaving-employment/

                      http://www.independent.co.uk/hei-fi/news/5bn-lost-a-year-by-carers-forced-to-give-up-work-8179691.html?origin=internalSearch

                      And meanwhile you link to ‘The Telegraph’ for some very objective coverage of Scottish politics??? ffs TRP!

                      Go look at the SNP’s budget. It includes the basic policies people on ts want to see being adopted here by Labour or whoever. And that’s from a government that doesn’t control it’s own public purse.

                      £40 million through investment in affordable housing.

                      …increase the number of schools being built from 55 to 67 bringing forward £80 million investment

                      …£30m over the next three years will help home owners improve energy efficiency, cutting bills and tackling fuel poverty whilst along with investment in low carbon transport supporting our growth industries and helping to meet our climate change targets.

                      …a national employer recruitment initiative that will create up to 10,000 opportunities for small and medium-sized enterprises to recruit young people

                      …”We are also reaping the benefits of the public ownership of Scottish Water

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      3 October 2012 at 8:09 pm

                      Righto, I think we’re talking at cross purposes here. My beef with your original comment was that it was a cheap shot at Labour, and free of context. The Telegraph report is factual, no matter the source. It was just the first one up when I googled it, though I originally read the story in the Guardian or on the Beeb. I was trying to show you where Salmond thinks Scotland’s future lies; with bankers.
                       
                      I’ve gotta dash, but I’ll be back later if you want to pick up. It’s been interesting. A feature of the next UK Government, which looks certain to be Labour led, is going to be how far it moves to genuine devolution, so relationships between the LP and the SNP are going to be crucial. On current UK polling, the SNP might hold the balance in the next Parliament. That’d give’em some serious bargaining power, aye?

                  • prism …
                    3 October 2012 at 9:05 pm

                    Hey good discussion. Thanks for carrying it on Bill and TRP.

    • BloodyOrphan 22.1
      3 October 2012 at 7:46 pm

      Sorry Jokerman, this ones kinda big, but my thoughts ….

      Kim Jong Un, a civilised man trying to bring peace too his region and is trying too address the loss.

      Ahmadinejad, Likes the idea of addressing the loss in Tehrans’ region (No Offense, it’s what I read).

      Europe, Like I keep telling John Key, we gotta regulate, and stop the embargo on Iran.

      Warmongers in America….
      They’ve been trying to do it fiscally, you gotta remember they’re everywhere.

      The good civilised people that stand next too them are fighting tooth and nail too stop them.

      Those good civilised people are doing it with open communication and due diligence.
      They know more about NZ’s economy than John Key did …. a lot more.
      They are also trying hard for us too get some more cashflow in the local economy.
      Bloody good civilised people in my opinion, helping us save our country despite the incompetence of it’s elected leader, you have too love them for that.

      Irans’ had the possibility of nuclear arms for 20+ years, those warmongers are moronic in their words and actions, It’s amazing too me that any civilised person on earth could take them seriously.

      I’m sure those good civilised Americans I was describing above, our allies, view them in a similar light, with an appropriate amount of fear, they are crazy morons after all.

      Education is the answer too right wing bigotry and violence in our communities, how do they/we educate those Warmongers about the dangers of their stupidity?

      The embargoes on the Super Power Iran simply impoverish the starving poor of the world …. there will never be any other result, our friends and neighbours are out of work, because of oil inflation, engineered by those same warmongers, who hold a chart much like the armies did in the second world war, outlining the oil resources of the world.

      Every country on the planet that has signed one of those documents in error, should rip them up and re-negotiate, make sure you tell America / China / Any other money lender before you do. But none of them want people too starve, that’s an obvious thing too me.

      It’s our civilised duty too Govern the economies of our countries so no one will starve, that’s the goal.
      Don’t let incompetent people destroy your economy again, make sure they are qualified.
      Give them a Job Description, and make sure they stick too it.

  24. prism 24
    3 October 2012 at 7:27 pm

    What a sad and sorry business this Zion Wildlife Park has led to. The poor cat handler Dalu Mncube mauled to death by the tiger he was caring for, who Craig Busch knew had a false passport, had that held over him whenever he wanted some better standards of safety. He could have been saved from such a horrific end.

    Apparently Mr Busch did not want him to sign a contract and said he would have him deported if he did, and Mrs Busch, Craig’s mother had said she would not carry on employing him if he didn’t sign. The two were fighting for control of the Park and Mr Busch made allegations of unsafe practices just before the death. But she said that Mr Busch had shifted the cats to a different enclosure which didn’t have safe measures for entry and disrupted the environment for the tiger that killed Mr Mncube. A month before the killing there had been an incident when a tiger bit another man on the leg. It has been alleged that Mrs Busch was delaying buying a tazer to have for emergencies, and the Buschs wouldn’t provide a reliable and trained backup person.

    It sounds as if Mr Busch has a narcissistic personality disorder which I have been reading about in the Listener. http://www.listener.co.nz/current-affairs/its-all-about-me-the-rise-of-narcissism/
    ” Further, narcissists seem unable to be empathetic. They cannot see a situation from someone else’s perspective, but nor do they really try, since they mostly think only about themselves and how others see them.”
    How do such people get the right to keep such dangerous animals and when granted the right not have constant serious overview? There had been a number of incidents that had not been reported by the Park to MAF..
    These included a boy being bitten by a lion cub and requiring hospital care, a cheetah escaping in 2011, and a fence being blown down which led to a lion escaping.
    The park was being operated by Craig Busch and then later his mother Patricia, when these incidents happened.
    zion lack of reports

    Now the Park has been bought and being run since about Easter 2012 by new people who were employing Mr Busch. This doesn’t seem right when he could be said to have caused the death of one of his employees. Mr MnCube might have said that he would clean out the cat’s enclosure, but his preferred safety measures had been shifted by Mr Busch. So it seems he had a big responsibility that doesn’t seem to have been sheeted home. He has had his own television show and feels quite the star and now he’s poncing around playing the big man for tourists.

  25. BloodyOrphan 25
    3 October 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Hey LPRent, why the internal 500 error? a while back.
    Do you encrypt your aliases?
    Not that I care personally, but I reckon you should watch out for newbies.

    Which brings up another point, which is …

    Isn’t it terrorism when the GCSB spy on someone, what are they gonna do with the info?
    And why the hell would they hack The Standard?
    I doubt their machine will be running yet.

    • lprent 25.1
      3 October 2012 at 8:45 pm

      The site has a few too many posts. The Rss and SEO updates when a post is edited are cuing CPU outages. On my fix list… Now all I have to do is find time…

      And I have very good spam filters

      • BloodyOrphan 25.1.1
        3 October 2012 at 8:50 pm

        Do you know what a stack smash is LP?
        Or did you crash the service ?
        See below, they modify the tcpip packet to incorrectly report the size of the packet, allowing them to run past the boundry of the executable, they are looking for a running sh they can play in.
        an error 500 is the only indicator cos it’s at the routing kernel level., and any port can be used it

        I only know one man that can pull it off, and he’s done his homework.

      • BloodyOrphan 25.1.2
        3 October 2012 at 9:32 pm

        Been thinkin…

        He’s probably had access for a while, he can attack any port, and spam filters mean nothing.

        He did this on purpose, coz he knows I know …. something to think about.
        Give him a day and he’ll be back.

        There is only one fix for this problem, talk to the OS people,
        Get a triple checked IP routing kernel, it should be able to report a smash attempt in the logs.
        It’s worth it, this attack is undefeatable without it.
        CPU outages are another indcator by the way.
        Chances are they’ve got your router as well.

        • Colonial Viper 25.1.2.1
          3 October 2012 at 10:44 pm

          Bad gateway error 500? Been getting the odd one just very occasionally last month or two.

          • BloodyOrphan 25.1.2.1.1
            3 October 2012 at 10:51 pm

            Someone saying howdy, they’d have to find your process or kill the whole server, first one I’ve seen.
            ie …. …. . . … …… .. … …..d

      • David H 25.1.3
        3 October 2012 at 10:20 pm

        I got one of those yesterday. Internal 500 error, was going to mention it, but have been battling this rotten flu and I forgot, also as it automatically reloaded the page from your end I really gave it no never mind and it’s not the first time I have seen it. I have also noticed that page refreshes are pretty slow too, and lately they have been getting pretty slow

        • BloodyOrphan 25.1.3.1
          3 October 2012 at 10:56 pm

          There aint no way it’s the number of posts, a freakin 486 could handle that amount.
          The response times for me are well within boundaries usually.

          • lprent 25.1.3.1.1
            4 October 2012 at 6:46 am

            Ah no, figure it through and think server operations. Whenever a edit is done on a post…

            0. The post gets added/updated which effectively causes a wait for virtually all current read operations at the database as it is running on a non-transactional DB and there are several tables that store the posts data. They are part of most queries in a WordPress system. Most cached queries are invalidated and require regeneration when they are next asked.

            1. frontpage gets changed – which requires that the cloudflare cache will have to fetch a new cache for the 30-90 people online on their next refresh (some will overlap on browsers). Typically this starts happening immediately.

            2. A new robots.txt is generated for the whole site – takes 4.5 seconds and usually sucks up the whole of two cores

            3. The search engine gets notified and typically picks up and indexes both the post and any new comments on other pages. This usually sucks up a core for a second.

            4. Google, bing, baidu, yahoo, etc are notified and we immediately get a least 20 search engine systems (many of them pick up from multiple locations) in picking up the robots.txt, the edited post, and any posts that hav had recently added comments.

            5. The hundreds of RSS feeds pop in, see a new post and suck it up over the next few minutes.

            6. Probably a few more that I can’t remember right now…

            But the nett effect is that apache and the database jam up with stacked waiting queries as the CPUs run at 90%. This typically takes about 5-10 seconds in the middle of the night. Then it drops back to the usual 10%. But during the day we have a lot more going on under normal loads. It will usually clear in 20-30 secs but it can take a few minutes if everything piles in at the same time. That will cause apache timeouts. The frequency of the latter is increasing…

            The trick is to push some of these tasks (2-5) on to deferred cron to spread the load. Which requires customizing plugins very carefully because almost all of the existing ones operate on direct hooks. I haven’t had time to do it since the load started boosting towards the end of last year.

            I used to work on 486s back in the 80s and early 90s. And I mostly work on single core ARM 9s running linux in my paid work at present (I seem to oscillate from server systems to embedded these days). They are like pretty fast 486’s. But they have problems stretching to the minimal amounts of data we are feeding in and out via serial and TCP whilst processing in maximum load tests for certification. That is with customized data structure optimized for the task and before we add my GUI on top and with only a couple of connections.

            I rather think you are overrating the capacities of 486s with processing while doing comms. Single core systems just aren’t that good at doing multiple things at once.

            • BloodyOrphan 25.1.3.1.1.1
              4 October 2012 at 9:00 am

              Fair enough LP just giving ya a heads up, but ignore it if ya want bud 🙂

              How many zombie threads do you see on the server?

              Do you even check?, they’ve probably got a permanent connection , check the age of the zombies, one of them will be days old.

            • BloodyOrphan 25.1.3.1.1.2
              4 October 2012 at 11:08 am

              Bud I used too write assembler comms switches on z80 processors running 1200 baud airline reservation systems. one page of solid text = 2048 bytes of data.

              A time out is a 503 error not a 500.

              And bud, Linux / Apache are the most stack smashable solutions on the market.

              They have source code available to the world.

              Your users have been compromised, not that they actually care, they’re not terrorists afterall.

              And it’s not paranoia bud.

        • felix 25.1.3.2
          3 October 2012 at 11:43 pm

          Yeah I’ve had a few over the last couple of days.

          • BloodyOrphan 25.1.3.2.1
            4 October 2012 at 9:02 am

            First one I’ve seen

            It’s a rare error, and they have obviously been on the board for a while.

            It means they know who u are, if u’ve been getting this error, someone wants you too know.

            LP is too scared too admit it, and doesn’t have a clue about stack smashing.

          • BloodyOrphan 25.1.3.2.2
            4 October 2012 at 5:55 pm

            You both should power cycle your routers by the way.
            You’ll probably find the power button doesn’t work anymore, so unplug/replugin the power adapter.

  26. captain hook 26
    3 October 2012 at 8:38 pm

    hey bo.
    they cant help themselves.
    in their horrible little minds if they aren’t spying on you then you are spying on them!
    and besides their is an unnamed battle group approaching our shores and eternal vigilance is the price of freedom and blah blah flipping blah.
    and there is a drone watching YOU right now!
    snd just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean that they are not out to get you!
    howzatt?

    • BloodyOrphan 26.1
      3 October 2012 at 8:43 pm

      Do you know what an internal server 500 means moron?
      They just stack smashed The Standard
      The fact they have recompiled the service probably saved them a breakin, it indicates a GP fault in the service.
      (i.e didn’t find the sh)

  27. prism 27
    3 October 2012 at 9:02 pm

    Bloody Orphan
    Why do you throw the word ‘moron’ round? It’s quite a strong word and should be saved for special and rare case.

  28. BloodyOrphan 28
    3 October 2012 at 9:08 pm

    sorry, I apologise, but they’ve been smashed
    I wouldn’t say something like that without reason