Open mike 03/12/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:44 am, December 3rd, 2014 - 187 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

I cant believe I am still protesting this shitOpen mike is your post.

The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

187 comments on “Open mike 03/12/2014 ”

  1. Deb Kean 1

    “Why can’t you link to events from over a year ago? All you have to do is use the search function and you’ll find it. Try searching “vicky32″ and “pro-life”.

    For example, this search shows every comment containing both the words “vicky32″ and “qot” :

    A quick squizz up and down any of the resulting threads will show how you used to behave here and leave no-one in any doubt that you were never banned “for being pro-life”.

    Most enlightening… I have had a ‘quick squizz’ (which on dial up is not as quick as you imagine) and lo and behold, saw this gem I hadn’t seen before:
    “situation where Vicky32 developed an obsessive compulsive disorder with regard to QoT.” – someone accuses me of some obsessive complulsive disorder”? Lolwut? (That seems to have been after my ouster, btw.)
    Then there’s this:
    “[QoT: Vicky, you have been advised on multiple occasions that you are not welcome to comment on my posts.]”
    So, pray tell, what lie have I told?
    Also, really, why are you so obsessed? Thanks for reminding me why I have stayed away, and why no power on earth will make me vote Green as long as I live.

    [lprent: Off topic – moved to Open Mike. ]

  2. Deb Kean 2

    “The lie is that you were banned “for being pro-life”.

    Also, I am not green. I am black.”
    Oh in that case do enlighten me, as to why I was banned… QoT in his/her wisdom declined to say, and your link was not enlightening. You are a Green supporter aren’t you? One of the things lprent/QoT seemed to have against against me, as I recall, was my dislike of the unfairness they sometimes showed in attacking David Shearer in particular.

    [lprent: Off topic. Moved to Open Mike. ]

    • felix 2.1

      I already offered an opinion on what I thought the likely reason for your ban might have been.

      You’re now exhibiting exactly the type of behaviours I described.

      lprent is “anti-Labour”? pfft turn it up.

      • felix 2.1.1

        lol Deb I see you edited out your accusations toward lprent. Probably a good idea.

        What a pity you can’t go back and edit all the other rubbish you’ve written.

        • Deb Kean

          You see I did what? Because I have no clue what you are talking about. Some getting of a life seems to be in order on your part – your sneers and accusations against me are getting old. I am still not clear on what you imagine I did to get banned – stand up for myself maybe? To some people assertive women are anathema, to others, assertive Christians.. someone who is both must be right nightmare! 😀

          • felix

            “You see I did what? Because I have no clue what you are talking about.”

            You have no clue that you edited your comment yesterday?

            Let me refresh your memory. You wrote that the reason lprent and QoT didn’t like you because was because they were both so anti-Labour. Then you thought the better of it and edited it to how it reads now.

            Really Deb, if you don’t even remember doing that yesterday, it’s laughable that you expect anyone to accept your version of what you were banned for a year ago and for which you don’t seem to be able to show any sort of proof of.

            “I am still not clear on what you imagine I did to get banned”

            Then you haven’t read my replies to you, in this very thread, where I made my opinion very clear yesterday. However if you search for “Vicky32” and “pro-life” you’ll find that it wasn’t that.

            You’re a nightmare alright, but that has nothing to do with your gender or spirituality and you malign both by insinuating otherwise.

            • Deb Kean

              “Then you thought the better of it and edited it to how it reads now.

              Really Deb, if you don’t even remember doing that yesterday, it’s laughable that you expect anyone to accept your version of what you were banned for a year ago.”
              Are you paranoid? 😀 I edited it to improve the wording not to try to bamboozle you, no matter what your self-importance tells you… My advice is ‘take your hand off it’, you are not that important, even though you could do with a huge injection of the self-awareness you are sadly lacking. I am a nightmare to you precisely because I don’t fit your definition of woman (pro-abortion harpy) or Christian – Meek girl or rich old easily discredited white man…

              • felix

                “Are you paranoid? 😀 I edited it to improve the wording not to try to bamboozle you,”

                That’s odd, just one comment ago you had “no clue” what I meant when I said you edited out your “anti-Labour” accusation.

                Now you remember it in vivid detail.

                This is precisely what I meant when said you were probably banned for a pattern of dishonest, deceptive behaviour.

                Same-old Vicky32, same old Deb.

                • Frida

                  Hey Deb remember this horrible comment – “Homosexuals are intrinsically untrustworthy, as aside from anything else, they have their own brand of nepotism – and the general public tend to not like that.”

                  Probably didn’t endear you to many people. Certainly didn’t endear you to me. Can’t stand that kind of bigotry and certainly not on a left-leaning blog.

                  • Deb Kean

                    “Can’t stand that kind of bigotry and certainly not on a left-leaning blog.”
                    Yes, I remember that comment and I stand by it. My reaction to your comment above is first: thank you for stating the real reason I am hated (I’d forgotten the influence of teh gay in deciding what’s acceptable and what’s not) and second: Oh dear, how sad never mind. I am not a great fan of bigotry myself, I just happen to think that it’s absurd to call comments such as mine ‘bigotry’, as homosex is a behaviour, not an innate trait.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I just happen to think that it’s absurd to call comments such as mine ‘bigotry’, as homosex is a behaviour, not an innate trait.

                      What’s your definition of an innate trait?

                    • framu

                      “Yes, I remember that comment and I stand by it. ”

                      then your an off topic bigot –

                      “female christians are intrinsically untrustworthy, as aside from anything else, they have their own brand of nepotism – and the general public tend to not like that.”

                      you cool with THAT statement? – didnt think so

                    • minarch

                      “Homosexuals are intrinsically untrustworthy”

                      Here you go Deb, I think you would be more comfortable at this forum instead


                • Deb Kean

                  “Now you remember it in vivid detail” sigh, I always did. I simply wanted to know what your issue was…
                  “Deceptive”? Rot. I am too honest, as Frida’s whinge below shows, and it shows the real reason why I am considered so evil. Take a look, but in the meantime, try getting the discussion of shortcomings and back on the topic?
                  That’s why the Standard doesn’t exactly have a great reputation as blogs go, it spends far more time attacking ‘enemy leftists’, than it does criticising NACT. Blue-Green anyone?

                  • felix

                    Deb, I haven’t said anything that could possibly be interpreted as calling you evil.

                    I think you need to remember that it’s possible to scroll up the thread and read the conversation in sequence, and anyone who cares to do so can make up their own mind as to whether you’re engaging in good faith or not.

                    I think I’ll leave it at that.

          • lprent

            You clearly haven’t met my mother, sister, and adult nieces or most of the other women around our family (Lyn isn’t exactly a shrinking violet). Our family runs on assertive women and a lot of negotiating.

            Not to mention that there are some very strong christian threads running through my family. In recent generations, most (like me) it simply never took. But that just seems to mean that, when those who get it, the faith is concentrated. My brother is a strong christian and his wife is a very assertive christian woman.

            I’m going to be interested to see if the faith side transfers to her kids as they get older. Looking at that younger niece I am sure that the feminist side already has.

            While I’m neither female or christian, have you ever considered that I actually know the difference between someone asserting attributes and someone who is acting like a dumb jerk on our site?

            I’ve lived for decades with people behaving badly on networks, and generally peaceably with assertive women and Christians.

            In my view you really just need to look at your own behaviour without making up facile excuses.

      • lprent 2.1.2

        She is probably referring to my deciding in 2012 after antics at the Labour conference that I didn’t have confidence in the Labour caucus being able to organize much, and was going to (and did) vote Green for the party vote. And Shearer for the electorate vote…

        I think that the Labour caucus kind of got that message at the election. It wasn’t their ideology that got them. It was that voters weren’t confident that they could run a government after the antics of the previous 3 years.

        They are looking a whole lot better recently. I suspect that Labour will get my vote this time (crosses fingers)

  3. Deb Kean 3

    ““Homosexuals are intrinsically untrustworthy”

    Here you go Deb, I think you would be more comfortable at this forum instead
    Grow up, moron. Since when were homosexuals a race? [laugh]
    Slander is not clever. I was a socialist when you were still begging Mummy to beg the bank manager to approve a loan for a nice house in the Grammar zone..

    [lprent: Off topic – moved to Open Mike. ]

    • McFlock 3.1

      so you’ve been a socialist for a long time.
      How long have you been a bigot?

      And how honest is it for a self-proclaimed socialist to actively encourage the alienation between workers that is the mechanism by which capitalist power structures are preserved?

    • Te Reo Putake 3.2

      It’s not all race hate there, Deb. You’ll find this page mirrors your values perfectly:

  4. Not Kidding? 4


    [lprent: Why would we be interested in awards? We never apply for them. Anyway, permanent ban for being a dickhead troll. ]

    [lprent: Also off topic – moved to OpenMike ]

    • Paul 4.1

      The fact you admire Slater says so much about you.
      Have you read Dirty Politics?
      Do you approve of the actions detailed in the book?

    • Te Reo Putake 4.2

      …the people have spoken. In grunts.

      • Paul 4.2.1

        Net safe does not equal or represent the people.
        Lots of corporate funding and sponsorship evident.
        Looks like it’s a ceremony to reward their faithful sock puppets if both kiwi blog and whaleoil were in the final.

  5. Deb Kean 5

    McFlock how do you imagine I do what you accuse me of?
    It’s much more comfortable for you boys to assign me to some imaginary far right loony position than to recognise that you are the faux-left rich boys.
    We real workers and beneficiaries have had enough of middle class kiddies telling us what to think


    [lprent: Off topic. Moved to Open Mike.

    You are now restricted to leaving comments in the Open Mikes because to date I haven’t seen you leave a top-level comment that is on topic for a post yet.

    If I see you leave comments anywhere else, you will be banned for behaviour that causes me too much work. I had to move about 4 or 5 of your top level comments claiming victim status out of a post that had nothing to do with your personal life. And all of the comments that replied to it. Way too much work for a single commenter.

    I’ll review this in a week and see how you are acting then ]

    • McFlock 5.1

      I read your comments. That’s how I know.

      Read your Marx. Homophobia (not to mention assuming people are “faux-left richboys”) is just another contrived reason for the people fight amongst themselves while the wealthy continue their rule, just like religion and nationalism.

  6. Sanctuary 6

    Banks for mayor? You’ve got to be joking. Hulse has the job, once Brown works out he’ll lose if he runs.

    • tc 6.1

      Why not, be good news for the left to have brain fade banksy with his assets sale track record not to mention his past tenures at selling akl airport shares etc.

      Banks is damaged goods so bring it on.

      • DoublePlusGood 6.1.1

        Except that if the goods are Auckland, I’d rather he not damage them further.

        • tc

          Damage has already been done largely by the shonkey/rortney supershity with it’s CCO’s and a dysfunctional back office centralisation that is yet to come clean on how much it will end up costing ratepayers.

          Banks would be gold in a campaign, he’s a foot in mouth silly old duffer with an opinion on his ability way above the reality.

          Can’t see it happening personally, the right aren’t that stupid, Banksy’s toast electorally and they know it. A retrial may just nail the charges on harder.

  7. Saarbo 7

    Fonterra GDT down 1.1% again. Whole Milk Powder (WMP) down by a whopping 7.1% to USD $2229 per tonne. The Fonterra payout is weighted heavily to WMP.

    • b waghorn 7.1

      4.70 was one bankers forecast for the payout this morning. The rock star going to have a nasty hangover when he wakes up.

      • Skinny 7.1.1

        Fonterra need to be hauled over the coals rorting the local milk market with prices so low internationally. I would happily switch to powdered milk mixed with water, it is pretty much what the bottled milk is anyway these days. Both milk products should be a lot cheaper than what we are being charged to prop up farmers.

        • Kevin

          Tried it. It tastes like shit. No idea why people buy it.

          • Colonial Rawshark

            Usually because its cheaper, it keeps better, also in areas where refrigeration and transport logistics is an issue.

        • Murray Rawshark

          We pay less for milk and Mainland cheese in Brisbane than in Auckland. It’s totally obscene.

          • b waghorn

            Is that nz milk or oz milk, I believe there super markets sell milk as a loss leader witch is killing there farmers.

            • Murray Rawshark

              The milk is Australian, but given the lack of anything green most of the year, it should be far more expensive. You’re right about the loss leader, but that doesn’t apply to Mainland cheese. Most Australian cheese is basically inedible.

              • b waghorn

                It would be interesting to know if fonterra is the cause of cheese being darer in nz to oz or if it’s the supermarket’s taking a bigger markup here.

    • Paul 7.2

      Rock star economy. Haha.
      No wonder the election was held early.
      The bunch of clowns would never be able to gibber on about surpluses if people had voted in November.
      Now we pay for their mismanagement of the economy.
      Cuts, farm land sales …….they are a coming.
      Sad days for this country.

      • tc 7.2.1

        It’s not mismanagement Paul, it’s working exactly as intended and it will be laid at the door of ‘global conditions’ as not their fault.

        Classic banskta tactics is to allow you to over reach and when things so south as there’s no diversity to offset the one track strategy the debt is called in.

        Can’t recall how much banks have increased ownership in general over the last few decades but it’s a scary trend.

        • Draco T Bastard

          It’s not mismanagement Paul, it’s working exactly as intended and it will be laid at the door of ‘global conditions’ as not their fault.

          Precisely. You don’t get the economy mishandled this badly by accident.

      • b waghorn 7.2.2

        My mate had a lunch with his bank managers and asked them about the diary situation they said most payed a lot of debt last year so will just burrow it back this year so as long as it only lasts one year most will survive.

  8. “..Good Election News for the World’s First Country to Legalize Marijuana..

    ..Uruguay’s groundbreaking marijuana law appears safe –

    – after the ruling Broad Front retained the presidency in Sunday’s elections..”


  9. chris73 9

    I know you’ll show grace and maturity in congratulating Whaleoil as the winner of Netguides Best Blog for 2014 🙂

    [lprent: Why exactly? Who bothered to enter this ‘competition’.

    The only reason that I know about it is because of the adverts pleading by the Whaleoil site on the Whaleoil site for people to vote for a meaningless award.

    I view that as just being pathetic. ]

    • mickysavage 9.1

      The “best blog” is chosen by clicks. No doubt Slater had his minions clicking away.

      • chris73 9.1.1

        Its funny when the most popular blog in NZ whens the award for most popular blog eh…

        [lprent: So troll there and stop trolling here. Banned for 3 years.

        I find that funny this morning in my grumpy startup today. ]

        • mickysavage

          Coca cola and Shortland Street are popular.

        • tc

          Well done to the whale, all those bots and automated traffic generators can’t be wrong. Look forward to meeting one.

          • chris73

            Winners grin, losers look for excuses

            • Draco T Bastard

              And RWNJs look for ways to make their delusions look real.

            • Pascals bookie

              I for one congratulate WO on winning the Netguide award. He was chosen best blog by the community of Netguide people, a select bunch indeed, who take the care to pay attention to a magazine that lets you know what was good on the internet last month.

              Well Done.

            • felix

              “Winners grin, losers look for excuses” …and PR hacks log in under multiple identities to fill the comments section having conversations with themselves, on posts they wrote themselves and paid Cameron to put up under his name.

              The jig is up on whaleoil. You can pat yourself on the back for fooling a bunch of corporate idiots but you look ridiculous pretending it’s real.

        • McFlock

          3 years.
          hilarious 🙂

        • Murray Rawshark

          C73 getting banned was funny. I LLOL’d. Literally….

        • Rodel

          yay! another troll skip I don’t have to do.

      • The Al1en 9.1.2

        So jk clicks on sicknote’s website as much as he texts him. Good to know.

    • Paul 9.2

      The person who cares more about the game than poverty.

      • chris73 9.2.1

        Stalker much?

        • phillip ure

          @ chris 73..

          ..but what is paul saying that is incorrect..?

 couldn’t give a flying-fuck about the deaths of children from one of the richest countries in the world..

          (..deaths that are all preventible..shall we call them deaths by neo-liberalism..?)

          ..none of you tory cnuts do..

 just come here and play word/stats-games with that obscenity..

 i said..what is paul saying that is incorrect..?

        • felix

          lol @ stalker.

          You’re hanging around on his front lawn every morning making loud farting noises, and when he opens the curtains you yell “PERVERT STOP STARING AT ME”.

          You’re a real piece of work.

          By the way, you haven’t answered any of the questions put to you yesterday morning. You said you were too busy. Well you’re here now, so if as you say you’re not trooling, best you pick up where you left off now that you’ve got some time on your hands.

          How can poverty in NZ be falling if there’s no such thing as poverty in NZ?

  10. politikiwi 10

    Hang on a minute.

    The Inspector General of Intelligence and Security is charged with overseeing the administration of powers granted to the intelligence agencies. This is the same IG whose conclusions are not trusted by the Prime Minister – instead he prefers to believe self-confessed liar, Cameron Slater.

    We’ve just given the SIS new powers. Why are we, the public, expected to trust to IG to keep the intelligence agencies in line when the Prime Minister – who appoints the IG – doesn’t trust their conclusions? Why are we meant to have faith that there’s any oversight at all?

    • tc 10.1

      Key only appoints the compliant types.

      Her acceptance of this disrespect of her position says it all really, another sell out masquerading as independent.

    • Wairua 10.2

      That’s easy. Key will return like an energizer bunny with urgent legislation he found on his desk to counter a non-existing threat.

      I used to think pacific meant peace,

    • Clemgeopin 10.3

      Good point!

    • Tracey 10.4


      But then the PM demoted himself from oversight of SIS, presumably on the grounds that he

      A. Doesnt read most reports
      B. Doesnt understand how the words work together in the ones he reads
      C. Is too incompetent

  11. Colonial Rawshark 11

    99% of Ukranian central bank’s gold has mysteriously all gone

    Same thing happened to the central banks of Iraq, Libya,…another example of the oligarch power players fleecing the people of their nation’s wealth.

    • adam 11.1

      We should call it gangsta-zombie economics, when we talk about the Ukrainian economy. I get depressed every time I think what is happening to the people there. I think the 1% have actually gone kinda loopy, or they are truly emboldened to do what the hell they like.

    • greywarshark 11.2

      That reminds me of the conservators of the nation’s wealth and culture, such as in Iraq? Hiding treasures, burying them, taking them home. Feeding the animals in the zoo etc. It takes special people to be able to hold onto the items that symbolise the nation and its wonders. Even the Life of Pi had that theme.

      One of my favourite heroines is Gladys Aylward. She went to China to be a missionary and went from being a scary white foreigner who meant bad luck, and had dirt thrown at her to being asked to be responsible for the post office seal of the small city by the head official when they were fleeing Japanese invasion. She believed in their worth, and they hers. It takes venal people to rob people under attack and in strife and uncertainty.

      • Murray Rawshark 11.2.1

        In Ukraine, the people doing the attacking were the same ones who were looking after the gold. Washington’s neofascist mates.

      • greywarshark 11.3.1

        What the mind of man can conceive he can achieve. Never be surprised is the catchword.

    • Tracey 11.4


  12. ianmac 12

    Very funny very true from Jason Gunn. Captures the shifty John Key so well.
    “It’s just that I need the money for the pizzas you ordered.

    I didn’t order any pizzas.

    Yes you did. You ordered three Hawaiian and three meatlovers.

    No, there’s absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever. …..”

  13. (this examines the ‘plants feel pain too!’-arguments..)

    “..Plants Feel Pain Too? – What’s a Vegan To Do?..”

    (ed:..some false-arguments are dismantled – and other arguments are made..)

    “..Right now for example – we are destroying about an acre per second of Amazonian rainforest –

    – in order to grow soybeans to feed imprisoned animals for meat – dairy products – and eggs..”


    • adam 13.1

      Indian philosophers and religious leaders worked out over two thousand years ago, that the economics of a meat based society, were unsustainable for a large society. Shame we have not caught up with them yet.

      • Tom Jackson 13.1.1

        They also worked out a rigid caste system among other barbarities.

        • greywarshark

          Tom Jackson
          Strange that. I was just thinking of an aspect of Indian culture which I think comes from their Hindu side. They revere cows which can go anywhere, do anything, yet they may treat their women like animals and can do with some of them what they please. Recently one woman was apparently stripped naked in public because she wasn’t dressed just right and that was considered immoral so the men increased the immorality by having her wear nothing. Now I am assuming that this was a group of men or one who wasn’t stopped by others. But women can work themselves up to this sort of outrage in some cultures as well.

          Women can be gang raped with a death as an extra. Or they can be hanged from a tree in the country with or without a rape. Probably raped as well as it would be a waste to not carry a degrading act to a female to its fullest extent.

          It’s a pity that the human mind can not receive enlightenment in the round, instead of just one area of the brain working feverishly on complex algorithms while another blocks out behaviour that would seem disgusting if ordinary animals did it. Unfortunately we bring our fine intellects to the subject of subjugation and torture and do it much better with or without refinements, than animals could do, as a result.

    • greywarshark 13.2

      @ phillip u
      Leave chooky out of it.

      • phillip ure 13.2.1

        believe me..chooky is well ‘in it’ a perp/pimp..

        • The Al1en

          “believe me..chooky is well ‘in it’ a perp/pimp..”

          Geez you’re a nasty prick sometimes.

          • phillip ure

            she is an avid advocate of eating animals..

            ..and celebrates her practices here on a regular basis..

            ..and in excruciating/lip-smacking detail…

            ..a definition of a ‘perp/pimp’..of those my mind..

            ..’nasty’..?..meh..!’s in the eye of the beholder..

            ,.i consider what she pimps as far ‘nastier’ in real terms..than any words i cd issue..

   yr faux-outrage in whichever orifice you

            (n.b..i am not commencing a dialogue with you..)

            • The Al1en

              As opposed to just being a prick most of the time . 🙄

              That link, what a load of sh1t – The vegan inside everyone 😆
              The only vegan thing inside me, and most of the normal meat eating world are the cows, sheep or chickens we eat.

              “(n.b..i am not commencing a dialogue with you..)”


  14. Chooky 15

    In a masterful move , the internet entrepreneur, Kim Dotcom, has announced plans to launch an Internet Party in the United States next year….he is taking the war back home to the corporate bullies

    ..Internet freedom issues are a BIG concern in the USA!…. and if media and film stars come on board and are prepared to endorse this new Internet Party it could do very well in the USA!.

    Interestingly given the treatment Dotcom has received from the NZ SIS and police and all the biased flak and denigration from the NZ msm, mouthing off John Key Nact spin and lies (especially from the likes of Sean Plunket and Paul Henry and even Morning Report) …..I found Espiner strangely flat and tongue- tied when talking about this

    …almost as if the bullied Dotcom German scapegoat might have value and be right afterall!… and turn up trumps and hit the BIG TIME in the mighty USA with shock horror another Internet Party USA!

    ….oh shame New Zealand….where is your sovereignty? Bob Amsterdam tells the truth like it is!

  15. weka 16

    For those worried about the loss of jobs to automation, not to worry, here’s a graphic of Busy Town Jobs for the 21st Century.

  16. North 18

    Herald today – allegedly a “rant” by Russell Brand.

    Wouldn’t define it a “rant” myself – more a reasonably restrained response to a David Cameron lickspittle reporter speciously engaging Collins’ and others’ piss hypocrisy charge here in NZ when Metiria Turei dared to challenge them about poverty –

    ‘Oooh…….look, Metiria Turei’s got a flash coat !’

    • Molly 18.1


      Watch the Trews with my teenaged daughter and we enjoy deconstructing it as much as he deconstructs MSM.

      His posting today was on the interview while at the New Era estate protest at Downing Street, and is worth the watch.

      I appreciate the fact that he acknowledges his own flaws without excusing them.

    • Draco T Bastard 18.2

      Some of the rich and their supporters in the MSM really hate it when a rich person supports poor people. It looks to me as if they treat it as a betrayal of all rich people.

      • North 18.2.1

        Yet the meagrely intelligent in the media don’t see the slightest irony in their gushing so biddably in the manicured garden of Sir and Lady Whomsoever every Queen’s Birthday and New Year. When shiny new gongs get handed out, deservedly in cases, on account of care for the community.

        None of the “snide” wheeled out then. Oh no. Just furious brown-nosing. God Save us from the The Fart Estate. Vainglorious moral leeches so many of them – all the more infuriating for their facile, fake iconoclasm and pretensions to depth of intellect and being.

  17. greywarshark 19

    So the Americas Cup is to be held in Bermuda and that might not be so good for the NZ government that is aiming for promotion and exposure to the west coast of the USA. (I thought it was only the stupid communists that picked winners.)

    But let us think about Bermuda. A tax haven. Here is Wikipedia on tax havens.

    Now I understand that many people have shifted money out of the USA to avoid tax.
    Trouble is when they take some back home it ends up being taxed. So it doesn’t get into circulation and they don’t get the enjoyment of spending it. As discussed in this link.

    But what I’ve heard and the above item says is apparently wrong as shown in this link.

    Then there is the corporate money. Yet far more scandalous, in a way, is the little known fact that Britain’s companies are sitting on £318bn in cash, because they don’t see a profitable investment opportunity. That has been the case for several years. The government has been relying on the idea of a private sector-led recovery. Expand and invest, Nick Clegg has urged, while George Osborne has begged businesses to help the government “fight the forces of stagnation”. Yet each year, the statisticians come back with the same dismal story: businesses refuse to expand and invest.

    I say – have boat will travel to where the money is and get some for ourselves. If the money won’t come to us go to them where it’s stacked in pallets down on the dockside. Bring a little light and fun in their lives of closeted austerity in Bermuda, or wherever.

    They are dying to gamble on something interesting. Let them gamble on the Americas Cup, and gambol for a while forgetting their relative austerity. Find ways to trade with tax havens, and stop relying on wholesome milk powder. Peddle our wine and water filled with spiritual beauty and simple-minded love of purity and the freshness of the land and mountains. Pedal our bikes with energy saving batteries, have an expose of our fashion on board our waterborne vessel of NZ gold, show off our art, sport, whatever. Write it all off to PR and trade.

    And don’t get caught going into the casino. Make the money, keep the money, bring the money home and invest the money in US (that’s us Kiwis in kiwiland, man, woman and bird, not the united states of somewhere.)

    • Nic the NZer 19.1

      Interesting. A point though,

      “Yet far more scandalous, in a way, is the little known fact that Britain’s companies are sitting on £318bn in cash”

      In fact its kind of un-important if the investment funds of companies come from cash flow or the businesses decide to invest and take on additional debt. The real issue is that the UK government is apparently clueless about how to increase investment in the UK economy. Here’s a hint for them, you need to create more income domestically, because people who have more income are going to spend it which gives businesses an incentive to invest and produce more (to capture the spending). Lack of demand will lead to lack of investment, most people don’t setup businesses which are not going to make sales.

      In fact the UK strategy appears to be the opposite of this, its to inflict austerity (and a double dip recession) domestically and hope that additional demand turns up from overseas (primarily Europe). Fat chance of that happening when the euro-zone in inflicting its own (massive) austerity and so going through a second great depression.

      NZ is also relying on exports and increases in overseas demand to lead GDP growth. A strategy which relies heavily on outcomes which are totally out of NZ’s control. Time for a sensible economic policy, a bigger government deficit and the stoking of domestic demand (which will be followed by investment naturally).

      It doesn’t help that trade deficits and surpluses must sum to zero across all countries. This means its impossible for every country to have an export led recovery at the same time!

      • greywarshark 19.1.1

        Nic the NZer
        Oh don’t be such a wet blanket. You’re just being negative and we can’t have that.
        And putting money into the hands of the ordinary man and woman would be extraordinary and we can’t have that either. So just keep walking in a nice tidy line to the edge of the cliff. No breaking step there!

  18. emergency mike 20

    Oh, it’s a tribute. How nice.

    Mr Key said if the Government was to send troops, “it would be in part to try and pay tribute to the service and sacrifice of the ANZAC forces that lost their lives in Gallipoli”


    • felix 20.1

      That’s fucking sick.

      What’s he got planned for his tribute to the victims of the Christchurch earthquake this year? Get a digger and knock down a couple of hundred houses in Masterton in the dead of night?

      What a fuckwit.

      • vto 20.1.1

        That was exactly my instant feeling too Felix – fucking sick.

        Key is sick in the head for believing that one way to honour men killed in pointless fucking war is to send more off to pointless fucking war.

        Key is a fucking moron. A dangerous moron who should be instantly removed from power.

        Fancy suggesting honouring the war dead by sending more off to war.

        I am sickened. This is surely the lowliest point ever for Key – what planet doe he live on?


        Absolutely unbelievable.

        • emergency mike

          Like you vto, I’m actually struggling to believe that even Key would be so low, and lacking in empathy, to deem this particular piece of spin acceptable to use. I’ve been insulted by a lot of it over the last 6 years, but this is the worst.

          Perhaps the quote in the video was somehow taken out of context? I mean, low yes, lacking in empathy yes, but this dumb? If so he is losing his spin compass…

        • greywarshark

          Why unbelievable? We have had many years to see fuckwit in all his charming and nonesuch guises.

          I want to know if modest little workers have to pay back to their employers for others’ thievery when are we going to swear a warrant on yek and distrain his property?

        • Draco T Bastard

          Key is a fucking moron. A dangerous moron who should be instantly removed from power.

          No he’s not. He’s a highly intelligent, somewhat capable trickster. Viewing him as anything else is what’s dangerous.

      • mickysavage 20.1.2

        Little had a perfect response asking if he was serious in the ANZAC badging being a fitting tribute of our fallen in Galipoli when the lesson of Galipoli was not to sacrifice our troops in poorly chosen military operations.

    • McFlock 20.2

      But, the only way that would be a tribute is if…

      My god, it’s brilliant:

      After letting the Ottomans build a false sense of security for a hundred years, we’re going to finish the job with a sudden advance from the Eastern flank!

    • greywarshark 20.3

      em mike 20

    • Te Reo Putake 21.1

      I like how he manages to say in one eloquent paragraph what Phil Ure has been elliptically failing to communicate every Open Mike since forever:

      “I’ve been smoking pot for over 50 years, and I never let a day go by unless I’m in jail,” he told Rolling Stone in 2012. “I am a devout pothead. I have been, will be, don’t see a damn thing wrong with it except the cost. Legalize it.”

      • McFlock 21.1.1


        I’ve long been of the opinion that the biggest argument against decriminalisation is the example set by an activist group that looks like Ure.

        • greywarshark

          But if decriminalised you might never hear another word from them. So think elliptically, and you will find it works for you. Puts a different slant on the world.

        • Rawsharkosaurus

          It’s also quite common for one of the best arguments against the prohibition of something (weed, alcohol, bacon, sex, etc.) to be the behaviour of the prohibitionists.

          • McFlock

            But at least the prohibitionists can usually string a coherent sentence together.

      • The Al1en 21.1.2

        Elliptically – “Without sufficient transition or a logical connection between thoughts, ideas, or expressions”

        You nailed that word.

        • Te Reo Putake

          Closely related to … ellipsis …
          the use of three dots …
          to indicate …
          um, … I forget what …

          • phillip ure

            but that is not ‘actually quite funny’..

            ..u can’t do comedy..trp..

            ..u need to face up to this..

            ..(too laboured..i think..wd sum it up..)

   requires a quickness/timing u seem to lack..

            ..flock has it..maybe u should study his/her work..?

            ..but isn’t really something that can be

   either have it..or you don’t..

            (but i am sure you are good at other you cook..iron..?..)

            ..but as things currently stand..

            ..u r embarrassing both us..and yrslf..

  ’s just kind of..’um, … I forget what’ …

          • the pigman

            … eh? …

  19. Puckish Rogue 22

    Something good for the govt at least, well good publicity anyway especailly in regards to skim readers

    • McFlock 22.1

      Funny that.

      If the economy really were going all that well rather than just being corporate spin, then surely you’d be saying that it would be better news for the government in regards to the closer and more knowledgeable readers than those who merely skimmed without thinking too much beyond the headline and spin.

      • Puckish Rogue 22.1.1

        I’ve always believed that its not whether news is good or bad but rather how the general public perceive it to be

        In regards to political outcomes that is and in this case its good for National as people who skim the headlines probably won’t bother to read the whole article

        • McFlock

          Yes, spin from the tory media does impact on public opinion.

          My point was merely that if the headline matched reality, you wouldn’t need to spin.

          • Puckish Rogue

            You always need spin

            • Molly

              I guess that is true … if you are a (s)pinhead.

            • McFlock

              not if the momentum of reality is already going in your direction.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Thats true but how do you start the momentum in the first place?

                • McFlock

                  That’s your conceit right there.
                  Reality already exists with its own momentum. You don’t need to add spin if what you say already matches reality.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    The problem is though that reality is subjective ie for some John Key is the devil incarnate whereas for others hes the best thing since sliced bread

                    How do you start the momentum to change the reality of those who have differing views to your own views?

                    • McFlock

                      What a load of shit.
                      Reality isn’t subjective.
                      Expressions like “rock star economy” might be fuzzy, but if the state of the economy warranted the description, the report would have been “good for the government” rather than “well good publicity anyway”.

                      Nice attempt at further spin, though. But if the reality of the economy were subjective, you could have used that as your example rather than your straw-man about key being the devil incarnate or not.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Of course reality is subjective. How about the 250 000 children living in poverty, some people fervently believe it and other just as fervently don’t.

                      Yet how many are? I don’t think theres anything like 250 000 because simply saying you’re in poverty because you fall below a certin level is meaningless

                      I do agree there are some but there are others who believe the real number is even higher.

                      Both views are each persons reality

                    • McFlock

                      I do agree there are some but there are others who believe the real number is even higher.

                      Both views are each persons reality

                      Both views are each person’s opinion. Reality is somewhere in between. Most methodological estimates of this reality (the ones that use something other than anecdotes) all generally agree around the quarter mil mark. Whether it’s only 200k or as much as 300k is actually pretty irrelevant – there shouldn’t be any in a developed country that has the resources and population density of New Zealand.

                      And your description of poverty levels simply demonstrates that your opinion is writing cheques that your scanty knowledge can’t cash.

                    • felix

                      Just to be clear, PR, you are now arguing that numbers are subjective.


                      It doesn’t matter which number you believe is the correct one. It only matters which one is correct.



                    • TheContrarian

                      “Reality isn’t subjective.”

                      That depends on quantum probability.

                    • McFlock


                      If you have to plead the Uncertainty Principle in order to argue that a quarter of a million NZ kids aren’t overcrowded, underfed, ill, and/or without weather-suitable clothing simply due to their parents’ poverty, you might be trying to defend an untenable position.

                    • TheContrarian

                      I was being tongue in cheek.

                      However in Richard Feynman’s ‘sum-over-histories’ formula there is an alternate universe where Puck is correct and Key is the queen. Maybe Puck was referring to that reality.

                    • felix

                      There’s also an astoundingly ironic universe in which Cypress Hill wrote Insane in the Membrane as a reference to M-theory…

    • Draco T Bastard 22.2

      “We are about to find out New Zealand was one of the top performers in the OECD in 2014. You were also the first developed country in the world to be lifting interest rates, which is an indication times are good.”

      So he’s really only looking at house price inflation and how the rich are getting richer on paper while not producing anything and saying that thing are going great guns…

      Yeah, that guy’s gotta be one of the more stupid ‘economists’ ever quoted.

  20. (today in questiontime..)


    ..(as always..when english speaks..the mind/gaze of the listener invariably wanders..and sitting behind english there is smith to look he gurns he does..

    ..smith could gurn for nz..)

    • Skinny 23.1

      I find Megan Wood to be very good, quite the revelation and not easy to shake off. The mongoose and snake dancing together, very imaginative Phil, gave me a chuckle.

      • phillip ure 23.1.1

        @ skinny..

        ..i woods.. me she is the star of this new parliament..

        ..i am a total fanboy..

        ..i like how the room falls silent when she gets to her feet..

        ..everyone wants to hear what she has to say..

        ..which is rare in an mp..

        ..and she scares key…

        ..which is also rare in an mp..

        ..that’s two for two..

  21. Morrissey 24

    Lest We Forget
    Our magnificent ANZACs in action

    Next time some cynical, dishonest, discredited politician or one of his media parrots repeats the nonsense about “brave” and “decent” ANZAC troops, remember the massacre at Surafend….

    “Our troops set off with a keen thirst for adventure, driven by a fierce sense of loyalty to their countries’ and their mates, and a steadfast belief in the values and freedoms they sought to defend. …. Their enthusiasm for adventure would be matched by the courage of their actions in torrid battlefields far from home.”

    —-John Key, 1 November 2014

    • Murray Rawshark 24.1

      The odds are that Western troops will do very similar things this time as well. Ours aren’t really any different to anyone else’s. When I see soldiers and ex soldiers talking about ragheads and goat fuckers on Facebook, I think someone should put a fence around Waiouru and lock them all in.

  22. Puckish Rogue 25

    Gee Winnies got an over inflated opinion of himself (not a big surprise really though)

    • Skinny 25.1

      Yeah I reckon the silly old egotistical goat. More than anything Peters played his part in a Left loss, by the old hat king maker line. He should have just come clean and ruled National out fullstop. He was never going to go with NACT.

    • Clemgeopin 25.2

      I think Peters makes some valid points.
      I gave a few more reasons for the loss which you can find in this link:

      • Chooky 25.2.1

        +100 Clem…it is not entirely as Peters said …and you make some good points

        …in the end it was a perfect storm of miscalculations by the Left Parties unable or unwilling to work together in a coordinated strategy to maximise the Left vote ( it was a big mistake to not help Mana/Int win …and NZF and Labour did not!)

        …. and apparently there was a strong wind blowing for the Nacts viz the popular view ( misconception?) that economically NZ was doing well …and Labour’s policies re super and capital gains tax were a turn off to their own voters…and the perception that Labour itself was not pulling as a team behind its leader

        ……..and there was the continual undermining of David Cunliffe and the Left Parties by John Key Nact ‘Dirty Politics’…black ops PR spin and a biased msm

  23. Colonial Rawshark 26

    The Anderson’s Bay-Peninsula Branch (Dunedin South) of the NZ Labour Party is having a major policy discussion tonight on the Universal Basic Income, what it means, and how it can change lives and communities in the regions. Will keep Standardistas informed on any worthy revelations…

  24. weka 27

    Peters being a dick again, and a hypcrite,

    The hypocrite bit,

    The second was that a Labour-Greens Government was “never a mathematical possiblity”.

    The only way Labour and the Greens had a chance of forming a government was with NZ First, “and no one had talked to us”.

    Whether Labour and the Greens’ failure to recognise their position was “arrogance or ignorance, it didn’t really matter because the net effect helped National”.

    My emphasis. Did or did not Peters refuse before the election to talk to potential coalition partners? Did or did not both Labour and the GP signal publicly that they would work with NZF post-election?

    edit, oops I might just have seen Puckish Rogues link above depending on which reality it’s in, but will let my comment stand.

  25. somebody pinch me,kick me,hit me over the head with a mallet…..I feel like Ive fallen down a rabbit hole,…[.has someone put LSD in the water supply???]….is it really true that our… me2,sycophantic,historically challenged PM is suggesting we go into Iraq next year with our usaophile neighbours with an anzac badge pinned to our chest,….. as a sort of way to celebrate the landing at Gallipoli in 1915……one of the biggest military blunders of that awful war,where we died in droves!!!!!….please beam me up Scotty, this is beginning to look like Coca Cola Xmas in the park……and this silly silly man thinks this is a good idea!!!!!!!….go away John,take your family and go and live in Maui,…take up US citizenship…. and leave us alone…..please!!!!!

    • Paul 28.1

      He’s deranged.
      An utterly appalling and sick appeal.
      Think Key’s losing it totally.

    • millsy 28.2

      Much is made of the Gallipoli landings in our history but no real discussion as to why they took place except for ‘freedom’.

      No mention of how Tsarist Russia wasnt keen on having to fight a war on two fronts or how various alternatives were considered, or the fact that the Greeks offered to send troops but were turned down. Or even the fact that the Anzacs were used because they were sailing to Europe and the decision was made to send them to Gallipoli instead.

      I wish we would celebrate more positive milestones in our history. Like the passing of the 1938 Social Security Act, the first universal healthcare scheme anywhere in the world and the foundation of our welfare system. Imagine a public holiday for that. Something more nation building than a bunch of Turkish farm boys shooting the shit out of a bunch of Kiwi and Aussie farmboys because of a rivalry between a bunch of blue bloods who were all related anyway.

    • Ben Adam 28.3

      Key is an idiot/smart arse to make such a stupid comment.
      HE should go and LEAD the soldiers there first if he really means the crap he is saying.

  26. Paul 29

    Brilliant article by George Monbiot on land ownership in Britain, which is being challenged by Scotland’s ‘spring’.
    Well worth a read and probably worthy of a longer post if I’d had the time.

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