Nothing to hide nothing to fear?

Written By: - Date published: 7:44 am, December 3rd, 2014 - 93 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, john banks, Spying - Tags: , , ,

Key and his government are ramping up their powers to spy in us all, one of their justifications is that if we the people have nothing to hide we have nothing to fear.

Yesterday in Parliament John Key declined to release his communications with Cameron Slater.

From this I guess we can conclude that Key has something to hide, otherwise what could he possibly have to fear?

(Either that or the whole NTHNTF argument is bollocks, of course – and thus doesn’t apply to spying either.)

93 comments on “Nothing to hide nothing to fear?”

  1. I think we can conclude that most MPs would not agree to having all their communications with bloggers released.

    Would you be happy to release all your communications Anthony?

    [lprent: I’m tired of zapping your trackbacks to your silly posts about this site. I’m not interested in exerting the effort to remove those trackbacks in htaccess. So I auto-spammed your URL.

    If you want to comment here, then you’ll have to lose your URL in your comments. ]

    • politikiwi 1.1

      The Prime Minister has used the “nothing to fear nothing to hide” argument in support of handing beefed up surveillance powers to his deep-state masters.

      r0b has done no such thing.

      Surely even you, PG, can see why your question is ridiculous.

      • felix 1.1.1

        Oh come on politikiwi. Anthony Robins can spy on OUR phone calls and textes but he won’t release his own.

        He has turned the SIS into a political tool and it’s a good thing Pete George is here to hold him to account.

        • politikiwi 1.1.1.1

          What would we do without PG to keep the powerful honest!!

        • marty mars 1.1.1.2

          It will be great when gete peorge has the courage of his convictions and he can do that by leading the way to a greater democracy and more inclusivemiddlefolkness – release all and I do mean all of your emails and texts to politicians and associates connected with any politician pete – your prying days are over mate? – your haymasters have been shortchanged? – who has paid YOU honey and for what purpose? – why haven’t you already put your own emails, and texts out there??? – what are you trying to hide?, who are you trying to protect?, which politician is your ‘beastie’?? – I don’t expect or want them here but at least your own vanity log should put them up – nothing to hide pete then nothing to fear or are you hiding the fear in a hide made of hides with the fear still attached. Still waiting cactfhecker, still waiting…

          /satire – sorry couldn’t help myself 🙂

          • Tracey 1.1.1.2.1

            He could start by tracking down his old playmate, peter dunne, and when he find him locate his moral compass for him, or at least hold him to UFs website goal of maintaining integrity between the govt and the people.

    • felix 1.2

      I for one am appalled that Anthony has decided to push his far-reaching surveillance legislation through under urgency. Shock, I am.

      Thank you Pete for highlighting this egregious abuse of the democratic process.

    • Tracey 1.3

      Mr Key said he didnt mind if they were released. Now he says no. Your starting point is wrong.

    • Te Reo Putake 1.4

      Over on YawnNZ, PG has a post up pompously claiming that the Standard fears him because his comment didn’t instantly appear. Oddly enough, despite LP explaining the perfectly sound reason why, 8 hours later PG still hasn’t amended the post. Pete ‘the puffer fish’ George. Scary stuff alright.

      • lprent 1.4.1

        There were about 5 trackbacks that I spammed yesterday that made me decide to auto-spam him last night on one post, there were a couple more today from this obsessed git. He did his comment after I left for work at 7 and before I had coffee and scanned comments at about 10ish.

        The trackbacks and pingbacks are there for intelligent commentary on posts, the same as the comments section. This obsessed conservative clown, who has yet to write much that is intelligent about any posts on this site, shouldn’t clog up the links at the bottom of a post.

        I am considering putting him out of his misery. Clearly being able to *read* the site is something that isn’t good for him. Perhaps I should expend some time and make it harder to view his obsession.

        • rhinocrates 1.4.1.1

          It seems to me me that PG has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (OK, I’m not that kind of doctor) and one behaviour of such people is compulsively picking fights so that they can be the centre of attention even if it means always being the victim. They find it perversely empowering and gratifying and hey’ll treat every perceived slight, every ban as a kind of trophy and then head back for more, compulsively. Tr-lls want to wind other people up, but narcissists desperately crave the “hit” of having someone else pay attention to them, even if it’s abuse.

          I suggest that PG be pointed in the direction of a good therapist as arguments only feed his craving.

          • lprent 1.4.1.1.1

            That was kind of my thinking as well. But he does chew up far too much time. I’d prefer if he did his attention seeking elsewhere since he seems to seek it by simply being irritating.

            I really have no idea why someone would hang around a site in a wide open internet when they are so clearly unhappy and whiny with their chosen spot. But apparently it happens. I’d be off like a shot to find something that is closer to what I like.

            I had a look and it really isn’t going to be that hard these days (easier than when d4j was really bad with his commenting) to remove this site from PG’s purview. It is probably a useful tool to have stashed around the site for others with particularly obsessive behaviors (and generally we have pretty broad tolerance).

      • weka 1.4.2

        I don’t know, pingbacks to YawnNZ are kinda scarey.

    • oarSum 1.5

      Pete, you ask Antony if he’d be ‘happy to release all communications

      Why?

      Remember, individual civil SERVANTS don’t get to choose how they deal with ANY work related correspondence

    • Murray Rawshark 1.6

      Anthony is not a public servant. There is a huge difference. Your comments are a waste of bits.

    • r0b 1.7

      Well, I drop off the net for a day, and when I get back I find I have a spy empire at my disposal. How cool is that? Thanks folks!

  2. politikiwi 2

    John Key a hippocrate? Say it ain’t so!

  3. Chooky 3

    someone needs to write a factual book on John Key

    • greywarshark 3.1

      @ chooky
      I fear nothing good would come of that.
      And not surprising after reading this quote about our luckless little country.
      “The first european to find NZ was a Dutch sea-captain who was looking for something else … It takes its name from a province of Holland to which it does not bear the remotest likeness, and is usually regarded as the antipodes of England, but is not. Taken possession of by an English navigator, whose action was afterwards reversed by his country’s rulers, it was only annexed by the English Government which did not want it, to keep it from the French who did.”……. William Pember Reeves 1898
      http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/wmg/quotes.html

      It’s up to us maties, to fight off the foul offender who has stormed our Parliament for his own and his pirate mates’ dastardly domination.

  4. BM 4

    Bit disappointed with Andrew Little, I thought he’d be better than this.

    I can only conclude that he’s getting advice from Grant Robertson.

    • Te Reo Putake 4.1

      Well, that’s the view from Planet Key covered. Back in the real world, Key’s worst week is fast becoming Fail Fortnight.

      • BM 4.1.1

        Can’t really agree with that.
        Little looks to be heading down the same path as two fish.

        Apart from promoting Cameron Slater I don’t know what he’s trying to achieve, all I see is the same failed tactics the left has used for the last 6 years.

        • Colonial Rawshark 4.1.1.1

          No worries then eh. Sit back and relax.

          • Te Reo Putake 4.1.1.1.1

            LOL! Beat me to it!

          • BM 4.1.1.1.2

            Think about this for a second.

            Slater is about to launch Freed an online news site backed by multi millionaire Tony Letino who wants to directly compete with herald and stuff.
            According to Slater, he knows who the hacker is, who was behind it etc.

            When Freed launches, which Stater has said is very soon(I’d say February 2015), guess what the first story will be about.

            All this dirty politics/Slater promotion by the left has played directly into his hands.

            • felix 4.1.1.1.2.1

              Sounds great. But what happens when Tony wants to see the real audience numbers?

              Same thing that happened at the Truth, probably.

              • BM

                From what I understand Tony Lentino will supply funding for the first year,
                if Slater can make it work or show that it’s got promise, Lentino will keep funding it.

                Truth was already a corpse by the time Slater took over it so you can’t really blame him for it’s demise.

                • felix

                  Yeah, I can’t see why Slater should take responsibility for his actions either.

                  Do you ever go back and read your own comments after you press “submit”?

                  Give it a go, they’re frickin hilarious.

                • ghostwhowalksnz

                  His earlier aggregate blogging site “gotcha.co.nz” was a failure too.

                  Freed will just be a local knockoff of Breitbart, but instead of ‘stealing the IP’ of existing news sites, hell have to pay. That will be a challenge without a subscription .

            • Colonial Rawshark 4.1.1.1.2.2

              Well let it run the distance! Slater is going to become a media/journalistic powerhouse! More power to him!

              • mac1

                That ‘powerhouse’ has already been nationalised! Poor return on the investment though key hidden dividends might yet be revealed.

              • greywarshark

                Powerhouse. Slater. That will solve our energy requirements for the next half century.

                mac1 lol

            • joe90 4.1.1.1.2.3

              Yeah, tech gazzillionaires media ventures are winners.
              /

              It’s hard, however, to top the recent travails of First Look Media, the fervidly hyped web publishing empire funded by Silicon Valley billionaire Pierre Omidyar, as a case study in how not to launch a progressive media enterprise.

              http://inthesetimes.com/article/17403/reports_from_inside_first_look_media_suggest_that_maybe_silicon_valley_shou

            • framu 4.1.1.1.2.4

              remember what WO did to the truth?

              it will be a big disaster as his ego comes before all else

              edit: just saw you reply re: the truth – doesnt change WOs reverse midas touch

              • mac1

                framu, is that ‘truth’ with a capital or lower case ‘t’? Both apply in Slater’s case with your question “remember what WO did to the truth”? 😉

              • Tracey

                And what he continues to do to the Truth… And people like BM still hanging on his every word while deriding peolle for wanting an end to dirty politics

            • lprent 4.1.1.1.2.5

              Basically I treat any accusation from Slater as being likely to be a distortion of a lie. He has at least 7 years of proving that. I will believe what he says only if the target of his accusation admits to it.

              The only times that Slater has ever managed to get anything right is when someone else gave it to him. Usually they had to write the post as well because he is so incompetent that he usually screws up actual facts into a distorted fantasy. For instance the Brown story required a tacky but real journalist to write the story after a political ‘operative’ (for the lack of a better word) for the National like candidate’s team got Beavan Chaung to talk.

              The bulk of the accusations that Slater wrote about in his multitude of follow up posts proved to be both inaccurate, probably deliberately fraudulent, and had a reek of just Slater making stuff up (ie lying).

              Since Slater manages to fall out with virtually everyone he works with sooner rather than later, I’d be surprised if it lasts as long as the Truth gig did.

            • Tom Jackson 4.1.1.1.2.6

              Slater is the only person who really cares who the hacker is.

              BTW how’s he going to compete with Herald and Stuff? Soft pornography and stupid gossip?

      • marty mars 4.1.2

        I’m loving that serious look that little gives – good gravitas and sincere which is so important – key can’t do that look not even close.

        • Skinny 4.1.2.1

          Just shows the influence of the MSM. The way they are taking the stick to Crap Happy Key, and selectively editing Little’s comments to bolster their point. You can tell their pretty ticked off with crap happy.

          I thought Key was totally unprofessional calling Norman a muppet during question time yesterday. Looks like the pressure is getting to him.

          • vto 4.1.2.1.1

            Yep Key angrily abusing Norman as a muppet was disgusting.

            Key, again exposed as the shallow schoolboy he is. What a tosser,

            • RedLogix 4.1.2.1.1.1

              Think about JK’s background and career for a moment or two. Muppet is exactly the label Key attaches to Norman.

              It just slipped out is all.

              • greywarshark

                There was a weak attempt to cut Norman off at the knees at the end of Keys burble. Can’t remember what it was. The equivalent of ‘and he has dog poo on his shoe.’ note this IS NOT what he actually said – (for the feebleminded.)

            • Skinny 4.1.2.1.1.2

              It beggars believe from a Prime Minister to an opposition leader, or any MP for that matter.

              I kind of can relate to such an insult having copped being called a ‘Union Muppet’ by Matthew Hooton late last week while on here. Though I did chose to ignore Hooton after someone pointed out he probably been on the juice and was half pissed. Still the same an insult to one is an insult to us all as us unionist say.

              • weka

                Yeah but using alcoholic as a slur is just as fucked up as calling you a unionist muppet.

                • Skinny

                  Yes I thought that was a tad harsh too, however guess since they were coming to my defence, and I have been nailing a box of beer every second day in this hot weather, who I’m I to judge 🙂

            • mac1 4.1.2.1.1.3

              Yeah, Key has no idea of gravitas. His attempts at jokes about the Standard in question time today fell very flat and there’s not much worse than a flat jokester, except for a petulant school boy.

              And after 23 FTE years serving as a teacher at a Boys’ College, I certainly met a few of them. Blame. Slag. Deny.

          • NZ Sage 4.1.2.1.2

            Couldn’t agree more. Key’s “Muppet’ comment was crass, childish and unbecoming of a PM.

            The antics of a man under severe pressure.

            This is the begining of the end for JK.

            • marty mars 4.1.2.1.2.1

              Muppet was bad but making a joke about ebola was worse imo

              Dr Russel Norman : Why did he ensure that Cameron Slater had his phone number but did not give it to senior political reporters such as the political editor at Radio Live?

              Rt Hon JOHN KEY : Well, I gave it to the people whom I have had text conversations with in the past from the gallery. That is not all of the gallery but it is a fair number. I gave it to other people who are in the social media. I can say I did not give it to Kim Dotcom, as, I am sure, that member probably has Mr Dotcom in his mobile phone from the time he went up there for lunch. That was the time when his high horse he parked up there got Ebola.

              http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/51HansQ_20141202_00000002/2-prime-minister%E2%80%94communications-with-press-gallery

              • Murray Rawshark

                That is just incredibly lame. Did anyone laugh apart from his brain damaged sycophants?

    • left for deadshark 4.2

      That must mean Andrew Little is on the right track,Thanks BM.

    • This is my take on it: About those changes in our laws to accommodate warrantless spying. Here is what I think about Labour supporting John Key’s Stasi laws: Open Letter to Andrew Little And Labour

      • ianmac 4.3.1

        Yes. The proverbial thin end of the wedge. Agree with you tavellerev.

      • Chch_chiquita 4.3.2

        Excellent words. Thank you!
        Too many people take their freedom for granted. Scary.

      • Sans Cle 4.3.3

        Great blog Travellerev

      • felix 4.3.4

        Thank you Ev.

        It doesn’t matter if it’s only 24 hours or 48 hours. If you so much as permit the police to spy on citizens for one minute without a third party making sure that the law and privacy guarantees are met you can rest assured that the political powers that be will use that to instil fear and intimidation in their citizenry.

        Any Labour MPs here? You need to read the whole thing.

      • vto 4.3.5

        True ttravellerev, well done.

        Most telling is our lack of experience in these things – how can we know when we have never experienced such before? On top of our passiveness ignorance as you so truthfully put it ….. yeah, neh, she’ll be right eh …….

      • Beatie 4.3.6

        Your average Joe Kiwi has no idea what this could lead to. In 1982, I was working for Topdeck Travel on their month long camping trips to the former USSR and Eastern Europe. I did four trips. It would take 6 hours to go through the USSR border as everything was searched. The bus was put over a pit so they could get underneath it. They would also read diaries. On one trip we had Chinese passengers, and when we left the country through the USSR/Romanian border there was someone there who could read Chinese. The locals were to scared to talk to us, and our intourist guide was also a KGB agent. Paranoia was rife, especially in Romania, East Germany and Czechoslovakia. I bet the citizens of those countries never thought they would end up in that horrible situation.

      • TONY T 4.3.7

        YEs I can’t get my head around Labour supporting this Bill in any way shape or form. Given we know that Key abuses the spies as his personal rotties already, my only quesion is ; Why.Would.You ???
        Still wondering who the other 87 people who were illegally spied on along with Dot Com are. Key’s enemies, rivals, and people he’d like to blackmail, perhaps?

        • gsays 4.3.7.1

          tony t, to help you understand labour supporting the bill.
          your question could read why? would you?

      • Mike 4.3.8

        Agree with every thing you say, and it’s good to know that I’m not alone, and that there are other people who recognise that John Key is a Psychopath.

    • Tracey 4.4

      Well, he is better than john key and you show no signs of being disappointed by him.

  5. Chooky 5

    travellerev +100 ….thankyou!…you speak from experience…and I have met East Germans who also speak from this experience….New Zealanders do NOT have this experience or knowledge

    I particularly liked this bit in your letter to Andrew Little and the Labour Party:

    ….”It doesn’t matter if it’s only 24 hours or 48 hours. If you so much as permit the police to spy on citizens for one minute without a third party making sure that the law and privacy guarantees are met you can rest assured that the political powers that be will use that to instil fear and intimidation in their citizenry.

    They will use it to silence their political opponents and to silence people who dissent and speak out their opposition. They will use it to plant evidence on people they want to disgrace or arrest and they will use it to steal from and destroy people who oppose them”……

  6. aaron 6

    Does anyone know if there is a body of research about how other populations have fought back against oppressive security states?

    Whatever happens next I imagine most of these changes are going to stay with us for a while and that not enough people are going to fight it through the usual democratic mechanisms. This means a proper strategy needs to be developed to deal with it – by which I mean; not whining about how stupid or dozy the NZ population is and actually working out how to communicate effectively with them.

    • Colonial Rawshark 6.1

      Chris Hedges does it brilliantly

      “Dissent is criminalised, truth is hidden…”

      • Chris Hedges is one of my heroes!

        • greywarshark 6.1.1.1

          I’ve just listened to some Chris Hedges. I am way behind with the actual doings of the Obama regime. Amazing chicanery. This Hedges is a giant though in appearance a small stalwart man.

          He talks about the length of time – since 1908 when what became the FBI was set up. Communism was such a great tool to bludgeon everybody with. And to practice ones false equivalence against (they did it first.) And he also refers to ceaseless war, every reaction opening the way to an escalation, sort of thing.
          It made me think of Israel’s approach to establishing their own peaceful state.
          Lots to think about. We live in interesting times.

      • Chooky 6.1.2

        CR +100 ……Wow thanks for that!

        First time I have got to know Chris Hedges existed …American journalist , writer , foreign correspondent, activist , humanitarian ,Presbyterian Minister….

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges

        ( another hero like Robert Fisk!)

        All people who support this surveillance BILL should watch this before voting !

    • greywarshark 6.2

      @ aaron
      Chris Hedges says in link above that J Edgar Hoover went and I think he said 1908-1972 though not sure now. But the surveillance state started back along time ago in USA and now gathers momentum. So once in it takes a lifetime to reduce it even, this spying and oppressing and hating dissent or questioning.

  7. Rolf 7

    Lest we forget, the ”nothing to hide – nothing to fear” was a Nazi slogan minted as propaganda. We know what happened there. It raises very, very serious questions about Key and his intentions.

    • Chooky 7.1

      +100 …and that utube speech by Chris Hedges confirms this!

      I hope Andrew Little watches it!

    • Skinny 7.2

      The tide turns when media hacks feel they have been played. I think that time has finally come. Off comes the Teflon veneer for crap happy Key.

      The question is will he stick it out? or will he be rolled by Joyce or Brownlee, both whom rate their chances of becoming PM.

      • Jones 7.2.1

        For someone like Key who “doesn’t like to lose”, the odds on him lasting the full term are getting shorter. He will not contest an election if it’s looking like he’s not going to win.

        Throw in the global economy on the brink again with a potential domino effect of uncontrollable consequences as a result of the drop in commodity prices like oil and milk… the financial chickens are coming home to roost. He’s either going to double down as Muldoon 2.0 or run away… like a financial chicken.

  8. aerobubble 8

    Key admits Ede was outside of his office, yet wasnt Ede talking with Tucker? Does that mean he outsourced his duty as intelligence minister?

  9. Papa Tuanuku 9

    where the hell is the article on Labour voting to take away our human rights and privacy right?

  10. MrSmith 10

    The slow creep of the surveillance state continues, even though we have never been safer, crime sats at a 29 year low in NZ, yet the New Zealand Police, that are clearly in the Governments pocket, seen recently with their vigorous investigations whenever the PM is embarrassed, Nicky Hager and Bradley Ambrose being prime examples.

    The SIS now given more powers, yet as we have seen they are not above getting politicly involved in smearing the Governments political opponents, or are these powers all about preparing for the backlash over our coming involvement in Iraq and be used to preempt any civil disobedience.

  11. Wow, thank you for your kind words about the open letter to Andrew Little. Times have changed and I see a lot more people looking at our politicians with a lot more skepticism. I think that is a good thing. Our governments should be afraid of us instead of us being afraid of them.

  12. RedBaronCV 12

    I would far rather labour hadn’t voted for the bill.
    But why didn’t they go for something in return – oversight of the SIS and GSB by a small parliamentary committee of the PM, leader of the opposition and one other from the minor parties. Nothing to fear so nothing to hide from a small committee of senior politicians. Might help to keep them under control.

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