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Open mike 04/04/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 4th, 2022 - 77 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

77 comments on “Open mike 04/04/2022 ”

  1. Ad 1

    Fair enough to call for war crime investigations into Russian troops.

    But maybe it's time for the US mainstream media to call for the US to be subject to the ICC for their own war crimes.

    I'm not seeking a kind of moral relativism. Just a global mechanism for the US military to be held to account same as everyone else.

    • Byd0nz 1.1

      Agree. But, every Country affiliated to the UN are also guilty of these mutual atrocities in Ukraine by not responding to Russian security concerns, they had the chance to avoid this conflict, but instead allowed themselves to kow tow to the Western big powers with their NATO disease of World power ambitions.

      • tsmithfield 1.1.1

        Rubbish. Do you think that countries shouldn't have the right to associate and align themselves with which ever countries they would like to?

        Don't you think it is rather instructive that countries such as Poland, and now Finland and Ukraine would rather align themselves with the West than Russia that they have historic ties with?

        But perhaps the current behaviour of Russia might give some rational for that position.

        • Byd0nz 1.1.1.1

          Well if the UN had of addressed legitimate claims of security concerns things would have been different and set a course for peace, but I can see from you post further down that you are a definite war monger type, so no need for me to respond further to you.

          • tsmithfield 1.1.1.1.1

            And your tacit justification of the Russian actions doesn't make you a "war monger type". Give me a break.

        • mikesh 1.1.1.2

          Not entirely. I think a country's geographical position should be a factor. Ukraine should prefer alignment with countries to the East of the Black Sea, since hostile relationships with one's neighbors make no sense. However that should not preclude them from enjoying a trading relationship with the West.

      • joe90 1.1.2

        Russians going door to door dragging men out of their homes and then summarily executing them is someone else's fault?

        Get a fucking grip, moron.

        Maria Genkin: Pictures of some villages freed in Kyiv region, specifically Bucha, are devastating. Dead people lying outside of their houses, in what can only have been a “zachistka” – systemic execution of the men of each house. One body in front of every house.

        https://twitter.com/AseyevStanislav/status/1510333593180069896

        #Zachistka

        • Byd0nz 1.1.2.1

          Yea well I think your word of ‘Moron’ describes you much better, you totally misread my comment , but that is typical of you who only get your source of bullshit from one sided view points. So you should put a prefix of GI on your handle and become the DH you really are. No further comment needed from me to you.

          • joe90 1.1.2.1.1

            you totally misread my comment

            Sniveling tankie called on moronic assertion that every Country affiliated to the UN are also guilty of these mutual atrocities bottles it.

            /

      • The Al1en 1.1.3

        That's the 'whataboutism' sorted, now try condemning the murder of Ukrainian civilians.

        • Byd0nz 1.1.3.1

          Well, you also misread my original comment. Had the UN addressed the concerns of Russia’s security concerns there would still be as you point out ‘murdered Ukrainians’ , that of break away states in Donbas who have suffered over 8 years of death by the murdering Ukrainian forces. But the civilians you speak of would still be alive. So I stand by my comment implicating Countries affiliated to the UN being guilty for the situation that unfolded.

          • The Al1en 1.1.3.1.1

            I misread nothing, but never mind, It's an open opportunity – Feel free to condemn the murder of Ukrainian civilians whenever you're ready.

    • Tiger Mountain 1.2

      Very few would not be disturbed by Russia’s Ukraine invasion and the inevitable gruesome details and general horror of armed conflict. Some small New Zealand communities still feel the effects of WWI and WWII believe it or not. It is not a video game.

      But…some of us that have spent a lifetime supporting international solidarity efforts on other countries, regions, anti war and world peace campaigns, Nuke Free NZ, West Papua etc. etc. do feel frustrated at the attention on Ukraine. Invading a foreign country? well US imperialism has more than a little form in that department, Vietnam being Exhibit A, Iraq Exhibit B and Afghanistan Exhibit C.

      It is not “what-a-boutism” but “as wellism” to say poisoning Palestinians water & shooting their teenagers, creating starvation and chaos in various countries like Yemen, and creating global refugee movements deserves similar attention in the media and urgent donation requests.

      As far as us ordinary people can determine with online searches, Russia has 10 military bases or facilities, all on ex Soviet republic territories, and maybe 5 projected elsewhere. The USA has over 750 acknowledged military bases and associated facilities offshore.

      • tsmithfield 1.2.1

        We can't go back in time and unwind previous injustices. Hence, I think looking backwards at previous incidents is a bit pointless, other than to learn from them and ensure robust processes prevent future incidences and to recompense for damage done.

        But what we can do is focus on the war crimes, and possibly genocide that is confronting us all right now. So, based on failings in the past, what should the world do right now to stop the war crimes going on in Ukraine right now?

        • KJT 1.2.1.1

          "Previous"?

          How about sanctions in Iran, Afghanistan and Venezuela killing children, and bombings in Yemen and Somalia, right now!

          But they are not “People like us”!

          • tsmithfield 1.2.1.1.1

            How does any of that help the current situation? Whataboutism isn't a solution. It only minimises current crimes against humanity.

        • mikesh 1.2.1.2

          Calling the incident 'genocide' seems an exaggeration, but then some say that in war the first casualty is truth.

    • Nic the NZer 1.3

      The price tag for ICC prosecutions without hypocrisy is too expensive. The US will continue with the status quo.

    • tsmithfield 1.4

      Ad, there have been prosecutions for war crimes committed by the US military:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

      It may not be perfect, or all-encompassing, but at least there is a process for crimes to be investigated. I doubt that Russia will submit to such a process.

      Was is happening against Ukranian citizens seems so calculated, widespread, and brutal, that I think it must be bordering on genocide if it already hasn't met that threshold.

      The stuff in Bucha is just harrowing:

      https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

      The other thing is that this sort of behaviour is very bad for Russia and its military. It will simply motivate the west to introduce harsher sanctions and provide more impactful weaponary to Ukraine.

      • Barfly 1.4.1

        It is what they don't prosecute/convict that is the problem

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%E1%BB%B9_Lai_massacre

        "504 unarmed people were killed by U.S. Army"

        ” Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, as were children as young as 12.[1][2] Twenty-six soldiers were charged with criminal offenses, but only Lieutenant William Calley Jr., a platoon leader in C Company, was convicted. Found guilty of murdering 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but served three-and-a-half years under house arrest after President Richard Nixon commuted his sentence.”

        • tsmithfield 1.4.1.1

          As mentioned, at least there is a process, though I agree, far from perfect.

          As I mentioned in a previous post, we now need to be learning from those lessons and ensuring that such crimes are fully prosecuted in the current conflict.

      • mikesh 1.4.2

        War is happening against Ukranian citizens seems so calculated

        But, on the other hand, the Ukrainian government seems to expect all its citizens, civilian or not, to fight in defense of the country.

        • SPC 1.4.2.1

          Rounding up men of a village and killing them is a war crime – even prisoners of war are entitled to more than that.

    • aom 1.5

      Perhaps someone can explain. The latest war porn photos were apparently taken days after the Russians left areas near Kyiv. How come there is a photo of two people lifting a body that bent in the middle, presumably long after rigor mortis would have set in? Were the victims all female or children? If not, how does 'civilian' square with all Ukrainian males between 16 and 60 being expected to fight the Russians? Is there any indication of weapons being visible in any of the 'photographic evidence' or are we looking at the reverse of the US ploy when innocents are killed, of placing weapons with bodies?

      Before the accusations of being a Putin apologist start, there is no way – this questioning is because it is wisely said that 'truth is the first casualty of war' not that war crimes on any side are condoned. The personal driver is being a pacifist!

      • tsmithfield 1.5.1

        "How come there is a photo of two people lifting a body that bent in the middle, presumably long after rigor mortis would have set in?"

        Because rigo mortis isn't a permanent state, but disappears after a few days.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis

        And yes, pretty much what I would have expected from you; an attempt to pass these crimes off as some sort of macabre staging.

        • aom 1.5.1.1

          Thanks for the explanation for rigor mortis – obviously accepted the common misunderstanding.

          As for passing the crimes off as staging – just about the response one would expect from a gung-ho propagandist for NATO. If you can't provide explanations and evidence, don't resort to sleazy assumptions about valid questions

          • tsmithfield 1.5.1.1.1

            "As for passing the crimes off as staging…"

            Oh goodness greatness me. My sincerest apologies. How could I ever have assumed that from you? laugh

  2. aj 2

    the US mainstream media to call for the US to be subject to the ICC for their own war crimes.

    Never going to happen. Been covering for the war machine since Korea, if not earlier.

  3. Sanctuary 3

    Russia apologists will probably also engage in whataboutism, denial and deflection on these war crimes in Ukraine. But they have, from the perspective of Russian propaganda, a horrible logical consistancy.

    The Ukraine was invaded to "de-Nazify" it. To Russians (and everyone else), Nazism is the ultimate evil and by definition not Russian (The USSR defeated the Nazis!).

    The Ukraine is basically a part of Russia with a silly dialect and some strange ideas about independence and identity. Once the Nazis are rooted out the general population will welcome their Russian friends.

    So when they invaded the Ukraine and the resistance was ferocious and the entire people rose up against them it was clear that the taint of Nazism was deeper and broader than realised, so the de-Nazification has to also involve a much deeper purification of the Ukraine, and "purification" means "liquidating" lots and lots of the complicit.

    Sounds outlandish, but the Kremlin's apologists on here have made great play of the "Nazism" of elements of the Ukraine army. And if some people (albeit half wits) in NZ believe it, you can bet your bottom dollar a lot of Russian soldiers believe it.

  4. weka 4

    Long past time NZ cities were moving on this. Rural areas and small towns need bespoke solutions.

  5. tsmithfield 5

    Russia is about to have issues keeping its war going. That is because a lot of their military componentry required for making and replacing used or destroyed weaponary is manufactured in Ukraine:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/01/vladimir-putin-running-missiles-parts-made-ukraine/

    And the sanctions from the west aren't helping in that respect either.

    • aom 5.1

      Do you have conclusive evidence to prove that Russia wants to keep the war going?
      It seems that Zelenskyy with aggressive support from NATO are more vested in avoiding a negotiated settlement from the bellicose statements emanating from those sources.

      • tsmithfield 5.1.1

        Russia can stop the war anytime it wants to. Just pack up and leave Ukraine.

        • Peter 5.1.1.1

          Yes, to me the fact they haven't is conclusive evidence it wants to keep the war going.

        • aom 5.1.1.2

          So could Ukraine. All that is required is to negotiate in good faith. That was obvious, even to blind Freddie, long before any violence occurred. Actually, about seven years ago wasn’t it?

          • Stuart Munro 5.1.1.2.1

            So could Ukraine.

            They could pack up and leave? Where should they go? Putin wants all of Ukraine – it's only that his forces are being crushed that has stopped him.

            All that is required is to negotiate in good faith.

            Doesn't work with Russia – have you not noticed the routine shelling of humanitarian corridors? In Russia, good faith doesn't exist at the political level.

            • aom 5.1.1.2.1.1

              Get off your war-mongering band-wagon Stuart. The Ukrainians only had about seven years to negotiate instead of acting as an agent for NATO which ultimately folded to the US empire.

              • Stuart Munro

                You should quit the appeasement – there is nothing whatsoever about Putin's war that Left or enlightened folk can support.

                We support democracy, not despotic autocracy.

                Leave the fascist fanboying to Rodney Hide.

                • aom

                  Facing facts does not equate to appeasement, except in the minds of those with a twisted agenda. More to the point, anything other than democracy is not despotic autocracy. In fact, one of democracy's greatest faults is that it is the tyranny of the majority!

                  As an observation, most 'war crimes' in your lifetime have been committed by 'democracies'.

                • mikesh

                  Britain, for example, wasn't always democratic; you only need to go back to the events of 1381 to see their aristocracy thought about democracy. Democracy seems to be something that develops over a longish period, and is probably not appropriate for all counties at all times.

          • aom 5.1.1.2.2

            Strange reply to the statement,"All that is required is to negotiate in good faith. That was obvious, even to blind Freddie, long before any violence occurred."

            • Stuart Munro 5.1.1.2.2.1

              Not as strange as pretending that good faith could ever achieve anything with the Putin regime.

              Blind Freddy would tell you as much, if you listened.

          • roblogic 5.1.1.2.3

            Good faith? After the recent discovery of mass graves and evidence of Russian plans to commit genocide to solve the "Ukrainian problem"?! Surrender is unthinkable.

  6. tsmithfield 6

    I think the west should aim to force an end the war with the following two steps:

    1. Inform Russia that they must ceasefire and settle with Ukraine within an acceptable time frame (say a month), and then action their side of the agreement, and come out of this saving some face.
    2. If they don't do this, then

    a) the west will ramp up sanctions to a point that it becomes difficult for Russia to function, and:

    b) the west will tool Ukraine up with the sort of heavy military equipment that will enable them to defeat Russia militarily.

    I think the west has done enough now to show this isn’t an empty threat. And Ukraine has done enough to show they are a potent force with what they have now. So the message should be sent to the Kremlin loud and clear.

  7. Stuart Munro 7

    Some truths cannot be spoken in Russia.

    Serving army officer shut down on Russian state TV for saying soldiers are dying in Ukraine – YouTube

    Not that we don't have a few of our own, but it would be funny, if it weren't tragic.

    • mikesh 7.1

      Some truths cannot be spoken in Russia.

      I think it's inflammatory that cannot be spoken, actually.

      • Stuart Munro 7.1.1

        Clearly you don't think at all.

        The soldier was grieving for his men who had died, and those who were about to die.

        But it didn't suit the official narrative – so he was silenced.

        As Russian truth drifts further and further from the truth on the ground, the damage the truth does will grow until the secret can no longer be contained. The last time this happened, the short victorious war, the Russian state fell to a popular revolution.

  8. Poission 8

    Is Red Ink the new normal.Interest rates are destined to rise unless inflationary expectations are lessened.

    “The high inflation environment means that interest rates around the world will be heading up, so there will certainly be further increases in mortgage rates ahead.”

    Recent Reserve Bank analysis showed that if mortgage rates rose to 5 per cent, nearly 20 per cent of recent first-home buyers would face serviceability stress.

    At 6 per cent, this would rise to nearly 50 per cent, and investors and some existing owner-occupiers would also be under pressure.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300557505/is-this-the-new-normal-bank-lifts-home-loan-rates-near-7-per-cent

    The writing is on the wall,as markets price the increases into the wholesale market,there has to be some signalling from Oligopolies such as Local and central government and utilities that efficiency,and not ideology will be the short term future.

    • Nic the NZer 8.1

      Why would the RBNZ think putting 20% of recent first home buyers under serviceability stress is a good policy?

      • Poission 8.1.1

        because high inflation is a disaster.Rbnz showed constraint following the Delta outbreak,when in hindsight it should have increased the OCR,hence signalling the arrival of peak money.

        At the same time media and developers were over selling demand (enhancing the FOMO) and forcing increased costs,rather then constraint.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/125970733/developers-take-new-tack-in-search-for-land-as-investors-buy-up-new-homes

        • Nic the NZer 8.1.1.1

          So putting up the OCR will actually reduce NZ inflation then?

          • Poission 8.1.1.1.1

            The global consensus is that higher interest rates,reduce credit demand by reducing discretionary spending.There are 3 parts to the situation,increased liquidity due to QE,and increased demand for credit due to lower interest rates.

            The third part was the involuntary saving enforced globally due to lockdowns etc from Covid constraints ( 55 billion in NZ ) around 2 trillion in the US and Europe.As spending arose following relaxation,a lot went into asset appreciation such as equities and property.As equities rose above their technical limits,the money transferred to more property and commodities.

            There is only one country that does not have a property forced high inflation economy,and that is Japan.with February inflation coming in at 0.8% and the central bank not increasing their OCR.They also have a decreasing population and a cultural mindset of increased efficiency,and enhanced productivity.

            • Nic the NZer 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Well if the OCR hits roughly those numbers that hard the RBNZ will put it back down again (like the prior 2014 tightening). They will probably have another take on inflation then, especially if the inflation rate didn't comply with the desire to lower it. Japan has been running QE like monetary policies since the 90s and seem to better understand how irrelevant cash rates are to inflation outcomes, though it might be just that their inflation rate is presently lower driving their policy.

              • Poission

                There are arguments at present,that the low interest rates are affecting the price of the Yen (lower) which makes commodity pricing higher etc.They have sufficient idle capacity ( nuclear) that is being brought up to standby mode that will (if needed) reduce the energy component of manufacturing.

                Japan does not have the housing risk,in its economy.

  9. McFlock 9

    Woman bankrupted in no small part due to her following "sovereign citizen" weirdness.

    Obsessive folks can tear up their own lives as much as the lives of others.

  10. Puckish Rogue 10

    Now its no secret that the entertainment coming out of Hollywood recently is bad, very bad.

    Lazy writing, identity politics, sequels and superhero movies galore but every now and then a movie trailer comes along that makes me think theres hope for Hollywood yet

    This trailer looks good and I can't wait for it to come out:

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