Open mike 04/05/2020

96 comments on “Open mike 04/05/2020 ”

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1. McFlock 1

   4 May 2020 at 6:45 am

   Happy Star Wars Day! 🙂
   • The Al1en 1.1

     4 May 2020 at 6:56 am

     May the fourth be with you, too.
2. Sacha 2

   4 May 2020 at 7:01 am

   The problem with universal payments is that scum may be eligible for them as well: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121359471/coronavirus-wealthy-liqour-store-barons-claim-550k-covid19-wage-subsidy
   • McFlock 2.1

     4 May 2020 at 7:12 am

     It goes to their staff.

     Audit the hell out of them to make sure because of their past practises, but this is how welfare should be operated.
     • Sacha 2.1.1

       4 May 2020 at 7:14 am

       I agree. There will always be some bad apples but that does not invalidate the whole scheme. May be a challenge we see to UBI.
       • Janet 2.1.1.1

         4 May 2020 at 9:54 am

         When I became eligible for superannuation I got a sense of how UBI would motivate those who strive – which actually is most of us. "Scum" is getting welfare now anyway so nothing changes there. What changes with UBI (and in my case now with superannuation) , is the ability to get ahead, to "get the foot in the door."

         The other point I like about UBI is that we are all recognised as equal, nothing has to be qualified, justified, or scutinised, We are all recognised as equal and are valued at the point of adulthood. From there it is over to the individual to take the opportunity to run with it or to sit back in the sun and become "scum," or as most of us would, do just get on with life in a constructive way.

         UBI would be a much more economic to administrate than the many headed monsters that ACC and social welfare have become.

         UBI should be available to all New Zealand born citizens.

         [lprent: I removed the double up for you. ]
         • Descendant Of Smith 2.1.1.1.1

           4 May 2020 at 3:01 pm

           Ahhhh the miracle of turning 65 when you magically go from bloodsucking scum to deserving recipient who has paid taxes all your life.

           It's as magic as caterpillars turning into butterflies or water into wine.

           There are some special ones though who despite not having paid taxes all their lives in New Zealand want to get both a full NZ pension and keep their overseas one on top of. They are really extra special those ones – presumably cause the specifically chose to retire here – they have magic wings.
         • Foreign waka 2.1.1.1.2

           4 May 2020 at 6:14 pm

           Hi Janet

           I absolutely agree with the UBI but need to point out:

           Overseas pensions – you can choose either but not both.

           DoS – you seem to believe that you can both, NZ and OS pension but I reassure you, you cant.

           If you are receiving a pension from overseas and opted for the NZ one the former is being paid to the NZ Government. We are talking some 18 billion per annum here that goes into the consolidated fund.

           How will this work if you are a permanent resident and worked in NZ 30 odd years contributing possibly more than some not so keen to work? Is it better to keep the overseas pension and what does this say about the status of being a permanent (not so permanent after decades?) resident. There are many reasons why people opt for not taking up citizenship. It does not have to be parochial. Fuel for thought.

           UBI payable to Permanent Resident – this needs to be reviewed in the same way as its done with the pension and pegged against minimum years of tax contribution perhaps?

           No UBI should be paid for people not living here and have just bought their way into NZ. Millions buy you a seat at the table kind of process.

           Some fairness needs to be introduced and some serious thought put into this.

           Generally, the UBI would be more efficient to administer.

           People need to be prepared to get tax number and registration with the IRD as soon as they turn 18 (?).
           • Descendant Of Smith 2.1.1.1.2.1

             4 May 2020 at 7:16 pm

             "DoS – you seem to believe that you can both, NZ and OS pension but I reassure you, you cant."

             Nope you can't but I was referring to all the lobbying that goes on to make this possible as if they were hard done by.

             "If you are receiving a pension from overseas and opted for the NZ one the former is being paid to the NZ Government. We are talking some 18 billion per annum here that goes into the consolidated fund."

             While you have said opted you still don't fairly represent the position. In essence if you have lived and worked for part of your life in two countries you will often be entitled to a pension in both countries. in essence a part pension for the time you worked in NZ and a part pension for the time you worked overseas. This means you are not advantaged over someone who ha actually lived and worked in New Zealand and contributed taxes for their entire life. You can get a NZ pension if you have lived here for 10 years.

             So it is possible that you could have left home and worked overseas at 18 – which many of my peers did especially to the UK, worked there til 55 then returned and lived here til 65. So 37 years of your working life was in the UK and 10 here (if indeed you worked). 37 years of a UK pension is a decent amount.

             The standard practise is to have your overseas pension calculated and then top up to the full NZS pension if your overseas pension is less than the NZ one. This will vary on a regular basis due to exchange rates etc and according to my father-in-law was bloody annoying. He was amongst those who lobbied some years ago now to have a simple system that people could opt into. His UK pension wasn't particularly large as he had only spent a small portion of his working life in the UK. You can choose to make the administration easier select to have your UK pension paid to the government and receive a full NZS pension.

             It's incorrect to suggest the government takes your pension and puts it in the consolidated fund.You would have only ever been paid the difference between the two pensions so there is no net gain for the government or the consolidated fund. It's just easier administratively to have created that option for everyone.

             For 10 years working in the UK you'd get not a lot from their government. We're pretty generous already.
     • Nic the NZer 2.1.2

       4 May 2020 at 7:39 am

       Previous articles suggested the offenders had committed to no longer being employers, by selling their liquour store.
       • McFlock 2.1.2.1

         4 May 2020 at 9:38 am

         I guess their greed outed them again, then.
       • Craig H 2.1.2.2

         4 May 2020 at 12:41 pm

         They just parted ways with Super Liquor and rebranded under a new corporate structure.
   • OnceWasTim 2.2

     4 May 2020 at 7:18 am

     Pigs at the trough. And in light of some contributions on a thread yesterday (I think maybe McFlock and Red), it never ceases to amaze me how some, who profess they follow religious guidance (of whatever religion) will selectively focus on a particular aspect to justify their antics – in this case the idea of 'self-reliance'. These greedy, status-seeking blokes are apt to forget the 5 Virtues and have well and truly signed up the 5 Thieves instead! Nanak would be rolling in his grave – probably let alone their own grandfathers. And these arseholes probably justify it all by thinking that they probably had to go through similar shit when they were starting out. And if they thought about it in any depth, 'self reliance' is actually the last thing they'e up to – taking handouts, ripping off others for their own personal gain, and then trying to justify it by wanking on about how they 'give back'. There are one or two politicians who operate in similar fashion.

     I repeat btw, that its not limited to their particular religious belief (i.e. the selectivity in the aspects they use in order to justify their actions)
   • Wensleydale 2.3

     4 May 2020 at 11:21 am

     These pirates should be audited with extreme prejudice, particularly given their penchant for shafting their workers. I would be incredibly suspicious of that money being used appropriately. (There's a fancy mansion to complete and green fees to pay.) They're obviously awash with remorse for their previous actions.
     • OnceWasTim 2.3.1

       4 May 2020 at 2:19 pm

       "These pirates should be audited with extreme prejudice……."

       Indeed! And not just by WINZ or whichever agency has provided the money, but IRD and others as well. But that won't necessary stop a few others from taking the risk to do likewise. You'll find that not only have these greedy, status-seeking, arrogant arseholes ripped people off, but they've lied to them repeatedly as well by way of false promises and what is effectively bondage – slavery even.

       And if we really don't want to see this sort of thing as a feature of the future, we'd go further: Things like offering an amnesty to a few of their former employees and even PR if necessary – a sufficient number to ensure a successful prosecution. There are a few people around that'd be able to assist in tracing those employees if the appropriate agencies don't feel they're up to the job.

       I really have to stop myself from beginning a rave, but the damage they do is far worse than they imagine because at times like this, it allows people's prejudices to seemingly become justified: Tarring everyone of like bretheren with the same brush (I've seen it often such as the "us" lecturing on how "they" are ripping off "their own"); ensuring the next/younger generations from becoming utterly cynical of the positive values this religion (but others as well) espouse – even though I'm basically agnostic tending (oops – pivoting) atheist.

       No different though than those that religiously espouse "Good, Wholeseome Family Values" that think family, child and sexual abuse is quite OK (as long as its done in private) …. from the Capills and others, to the tithing Tamakis, or the 'exceptional' followers of Islam who are perfectly prepared to gruesomely murder others of the faith.

       There's probably a chemical cure for most of them – it'd probably involve massive doses of oestrogen, but suffice to say these two are well-versed in Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Hankaar – AND its a matter of record. I'm kind of wondering if a "kind and transformational" gummint is up to the challenge of facing them down through the various agencies and their supposed capabilities they have. I suspect not – but maybe in the fullness of time ("in this space, going forward")
3. Sacha 3

   4 May 2020 at 7:07 am

   Manufacturing returning to NZ: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/prosper/121177344/coronavirus-manufacturing-can-be-the-backbone-the-covid19-economic-recovery
   • Janet 3.1

     4 May 2020 at 9:34 am

     Then lets look forward to F&P bringing their manufacturing back home!

     Further processing of our all primary products, wood, wool, meat , hides, horticultural, fish and the return to the making of medical products from our primary products like thyroxine as Glaxo used to do, would be a logical manufacturing re- development and development!
     • Sacha 3.1.1

       4 May 2020 at 9:41 am

       Will not make sense for all firms. Both the F&P companies must remain focused on overseas markets to be viable (and have shifted manufacturing closer to those) and one is not even NZ-owned anymore.
4. tc 4

   4 May 2020 at 7:26 am

   I see a piece in Ozzie daily 'the age' quoting soimon, Gisborne mayor and no one else whining on about lockdown levels.

   JA has her work cut out.
   • Sacha 4.1

     4 May 2020 at 9:42 am

     Isn't that a Murdoch rag?
     • Koff 4.1.1

       4 May 2020 at 10:03 am

       The Age, Sydney Morning Herald, Brisbane Times and Stuff are all owned by Channel 9 (Australian). Personally, I find the Ozzie variants better researched with better comments than Stuff. Think there is a bit of cross Tasman rivalry going on in Oz and there have been a few poorly written articles about NZ's response to Covid-19. Not matched by the NZ equivalents.
   • sumsuch 4.2

     5 May 2020 at 12:20 am

     I see our Sith African Mayor here in Gisbo, capital of Maori NZ, wants to push on. Oh, to have the virtue of obliviousness. Or, the straight path to National MPdom. I can't remember the particularities of our present MP's unawareness of others, except all we fellow Napier exiles refuse to vote for her, in her Ohope homestead. So much we can get away with, or National.
5. Dennis Frank 5

   4 May 2020 at 8:53 am

   Michael Reddell has another go at it, on Spinoff this time: "Successful economies tend to be ones where foreign trade – exports and imports – is rising as a share of GDP: especially for small countries the wider world is where most of the potential markets are. In New Zealand, the foreign trade share has hardly changed since about 1980, and has been falling this century – the peak years of the latest wave of globalisation. We were once among the most successful trading nations in the world – matched by really high living standards for the times – but no longer. Ministers and officials like to talk about the numerous preferential trade deals they sign, but the data tell their own story." https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/04-05-2020/rebuilding-a-shattered-economy-in-a-post-covid-world/

   Running to stand still for 40 years gives us a good idea of the merit of all the macho business thrusters we had to endure the propanda from during Rogernomics & Ruthenasia. Nothing much heard from our right-wing thinktanks in recent years along those lines though, nor now. Zero from our sole left-wing thinktank.

   Michael's point about the contrast between all the media hoop-la surrounding our foreign ministers signing trade deals, and the consequent lack of any bump in foreign trade earnings, shows just how much our media are captivated by froth not substance.

   “When the economy is going backwards, when there is little appetite by firms to invest, and a strong precautionary motive to save, we need the OCR to be quite deeply negative for a time.” Nudge.
   • Adrian 5.1

     4 May 2020 at 9:38 am

     We were the "most successful trading nation " when we only had one customer, the UK, with butter, cheese and meat because it was desperately short of protein and wool for the mills for clothing. The price of wool was artificially high because of the Korean War at famously " a pound a pound " when average wages in NZ were about 5 Pound a week, that made wool about $180 a pound in todays money. Wool is probably about 12-15 dollars a pound today.

     I have a grocery bill of my parents from 1950 and butter and milk even heavily subsidised as they were then, were a lot more expensive than now.

     Having only one customer who takes all you can produce at huge prices only makes you "successful "in a limited sense.
     • Heather Grimwood 5.1.1

       4 May 2020 at 12:16 pm

       to Adrian at 5:1 : Sorry Adrian …. milk was 4d a pint albeit subsidised. I know because had four children from 1955 < , my husband and I drank milk because cheaper than tea ( coffee a rarity then). Therefore we consumed 10 pints a day for years, allowing milk vendor to accept a cheque monthly rather than so much cash ( yes 40d was well worth pinching!) each day.
       • RosieLee 5.1.1.1

         4 May 2020 at 1:12 pm

         And in 1963/4 when i was flatting, a leg of lamb was 7 and 6d.
       • Ad 5.1.1.2

         4 May 2020 at 8:39 pm

         crikey that's impressive memory and track record.

         good to have on this site.
     • bwaghorn 5.1.2

       4 May 2020 at 12:22 pm

       Coarse wool ( which is most wool not off a merino) is about $2.80 a kg at the moment.
     • KJT 5.1.3

       4 May 2020 at 1:49 pm

       Not old enough to remember the fifties, but growing up in the sixties, my parents, with one earner, on less than half the average wage at the time, were able to buy 6 pints of milk daily, plenty of bread and other food, and put a lamb roast to feed at least eight, on the table every Sunday.

       People on similar income, from two earners today, would be paying half their weekly food budget, after rent, for one roast.
       • Paddington 5.1.3.1

         4 May 2020 at 3:14 pm

         In the '60's NZ was still being propped up by the UK. Today we have no such safety net.
         • KJT 5.1.3.1.1

           4 May 2020 at 8:32 pm

           You mean we were selling them quality produce, in return for their shoddy manufactured goods. Little has changed, apart from the countries we are selling to.

           I would have a good think about which country was "propping up" the other, if I were you?
           • Paddington 5.1.3.1.1.1

             5 May 2020 at 6:09 pm

             We were selling them quality produce in return for foreign exchange. The UK basically provided our high standard of living. They didn't need us at all. As for their ‘shoddy’ goods, you have a very short memory. Remember Tri-Ang, Corgi and Meccano toys, Morris and Austin motor cars, the Beatles (and hundreds of others). They did very well by the world did the UK.
       • Patricia 2 5.1.3.2

         4 May 2020 at 11:41 pm

         I remember 2 shillings for a pound of butter and a shilling for a loaf of bread. 4 pence for a pint of milk. Nine pence for a seat in local movie theatre. Lamb was cheap and chickens only for special occasions.
         • pat 5.1.3.2.1

           5 May 2020 at 6:25 pm

           2 cents (thats right, cents ) for a pint of milk…mind you wages were equally low.

           It is important to remember that when this 'regime' was in place we had a very compressed remuneration structure which included a top tax rate of 60 cents in the dollar….and capital controls. Some of the solutions from the past are relevant….as are some of the lifestyle impacts.
   • Foreign waka 5.2

     4 May 2020 at 6:20 pm

     Hi Denis, follow the money….
6. Morrissey 6

   4 May 2020 at 9:20 am

   Look who was talking about "predators" in 1994

   Starts at the 0:30 mark….
7. gsays 7

   4 May 2020 at 10:27 am

   Speaking of manufacturing, the past and future and wool.

   It is such a great fibre and massively undervalued.

   The rise of the plastic/fossil fuel based clothing has to have reached its peak. Surely a clever marketing crowd can put that message across.

   Unsustainable vs organic. Foreign sourced vs made in Aotearoa.

   All the different businesses/people that would be involved. Farmers, shearers, science (R&D), manufacturing….

   Combined with a hemp product it would be unstoppable.
   • pat 7.1

     4 May 2020 at 10:32 am

     we've been trying for 50 years without success
     • roblogic 7.1.1

       4 May 2020 at 4:28 pm

       Cheap plastic vs expensive bespoke organic fibres

       A choice few can afford
       • pat 7.1.1.1

         4 May 2020 at 4:47 pm

         Boots theory?..we seem to have lost the ability to apply it.

         But you are right to observe that price will be even more of a factor in the current environment.
8. Dennis Frank 8

   4 May 2020 at 11:56 am

   So here's how the Democrats are trying to impress voters: "government programs in the United States—even those supported by the purportedly pro-government party—are not designed to solve problems. Rather, they are designed to solve a given problem only to a degree—and that degree can’t require an amount of spending that would necessitate financial sacrifice on the part of high-income taxpayers. This is not a leftist conspiracy theory, but the overt position of the party’s leaders, who believe they will not be able to achieve crucial voting margins in upscale suburbs if they authorize too much taxation and spending." https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/coronavirus-stimulus-failures-hit-professional-class.html?via=features

   "To put it cynically, the job of much Democratic legislation is to make liberal voters of means feel good that something is being done for the less fortunate, not necessarily to actually do that thing."

   "Some people might really benefit, but the process of doing so will be time-consuming and byzantine, and will only affect their overall life situation at the margins. (Consider the “free college in New York state” program that New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo often takes credit for starting. Seventy percent of those who apply to the program are rejected—and it doesn’t cover the costs of housing or class materials, but you also can’t participate in it if you’re a part-time student, i.e., someone who needs to work on the side to cover the costs of housing and class materials. During his 2018 reelection campaign Cuomo belittled his opponent’s proposal to raise taxes on incomes over $1 million a year and called it a political “nonstarter.”)"

   "Voters who might need better benefits have the choice of either accepting these as the best they can get or not voting at all, because the other party wants new programs to be inadequate on purpose—and wants to cut back the ones that do work, like Social Security and Medicare—so as to “incentivize” individuals to work harder to get a job or to get a better job or to save more. The choice is between drowning gradually or all at once."

   But hey, Democrats are the progressive option, apparently. "“Our constituents have a lot of questions about where the hell this $3 trillion is going and why it isn’t coming into their pockets,” Pennsylvania Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon told Politico in an article about rank-and-file Democratic backlash against the party’s limited stimulus efforts."
9. Ad 9

   4 May 2020 at 1:20 pm

   Zero!

   Zero new cases today!

   WOOT!
   • Dennis Frank 9.1

     4 May 2020 at 1:44 pm

     Downside of that: those sociopaths who ignore the rules will get new recruits. Did you see those figures for the number of parties on saturday night complained about? Plenty of folks have a `been there, done that' attitude to social distancing…
     • weka 9.1.1

       4 May 2020 at 2:15 pm

       either we will have a spike in infections which will be traceable to those parties and we go back to L4 and people learn to stop being dicks, or we don't have a spike because the curve was sufficiently flattened and we carry on figuring it all out as we go along and some people politicise the issue and we go back to the old macho politics (except Labour are in charge, with St Jacinda at the helm, lol).
   • aj 9.2

     4 May 2020 at 1:49 pm

     I'll raise a glass to New Zealand. Well done

     Then several glasses to JA and AB
   • Sanctuary 9.3

     4 May 2020 at 1:49 pm

     I agree with this man and so does my wife!
     • Ad 9.3.1

       4 May 2020 at 8:41 pm

       Lovely Beef Stroganoff tonight thankyou Sanctuary.
   • RedLogix 9.4

     4 May 2020 at 1:59 pm

     We just celebrated too! Extra treats for lunch and I've knocked over my last bottle of Corona!

     My partner said "Guess how many we got today" and I could just hear the zero answer in her voice.
   • RedBaronCV 9.5

     4 May 2020 at 1:59 pm

     28 days of this 0.00 and I'll be getting the champers out of the fridge. I'm picking that we may stay at level 3 until after the queens birthday weekend.

     Saw some figures way back (for Aus) which indicted that lockdown compliance needed to be 70% or above to reduce transmission – we look like we went through level 4 in the high 90's – which makes the track to 0.00 faster. So if level 3 means we have dropped but are still above 70% we will get there but the more compliance the quicker.

     Time to roll out the ad campaigns " play to the whistle" , " game not over yet" "fancy going to the beach this summer?" – make it really clear that we are close to full time but need that extra push just to get us there
   • AB 9.6

     4 May 2020 at 2:02 pm

     Yes – brilliant. Now the plan to ensure that in those sectors of the economy that aren't coming back, nobody is left behind. The plan to ensure that after everybody has put in the effort, the result isn't that some people get to make out economically like bandits, while others go to the wall.
   • Poission 9.7

     4 May 2020 at 2:29 pm

     Hong Kong had zero for last two days,and 14 days with no local infection (cases being repatriation flights)

     Clearly not a case of location.

     https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3082640/coronavirus-hong-kong-records-no-new-cases-sunday
     • Tricledrown 9.7.1

       5 May 2020 at 1:22 pm

       A NZ doctor was responsible for HK's pandemic readiness as they had previous experience with Sars early 2,000's.

       Taiwan no other countries were as well prepared.
     • Tricledrown 9.7.2

       5 May 2020 at 1:26 pm

       A NZ doctor was responsible for HK's pandemic readiness as they had previous experience with Sars early 2,000's.

       Taiwan and HK no other countries were as well prepared.

       Desperate blame game rather lame
10. Muttonbird 10

    4 May 2020 at 1:40 pm

    The PM working her magic again. Unusual times for sure, but this suggests her stance on AUS/NZ relations has not been as damaging as some alarmists on the right would have us believe.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300003988/jacinda-ardern-to-join-australian-national-cabinet-on-tuesday

    I wonder if they'll seat her next to Dutton?
    • RedLogix 10.1

      4 May 2020 at 1:55 pm

      Fortunately for Ardern the meeting is a phone in, but an interesting turn of events all the same. It's my sense that quite a few Australian politicians are quietly grateful that Ardern has paved the way for SloMo to follow.

      But the outcome is a good one, both countries have responded magnificently so far, at least to the best extent you might reasonably imagine. It’s set the stage for a major trans-Tasman refresh.

      There are scarcely two nations on earth more tightly linked socially and economically, but we've allowed the political relationship to drift. This may well be a good chance to reset the politics, because I think in this coming unsettled decade we are going to need the relationship working at full strength.
      • Muttonbird 10.1.1

        4 May 2020 at 2:02 pm

        Yes of course, a virtual meeting.

        Certainly a common adversary helps focus common interests. If they get this trans tasman bubble working it could strengthen ties even further with each others citizens boosting badly damaged tourism sectors.

        Australia's deportation policy is still a massive issue though.
        • RedLogix 10.1.1.1

          4 May 2020 at 2:09 pm

          Yes. The trick to sorting that issue will be getting the Australian public and politicians to start putting a higher value on their unique relationship with NZ. Ardern has raised our credibility enormously over here, almost everyone we have spoken with is aware of our govt's bold and gutsy approach. They respect that.
      • roblogic 10.1.2

        4 May 2020 at 2:03 pm

        lol @ "SloMo" … their PMs are always good nickname fodder 😂

        More seriously, there are stumbling blocks that both nations need to face up to in order to normalise & strengthen relations. Citizenship, border security, foreign policy, the FIRE sector, workers rights
      • ScottGN 10.1.3

        4 May 2020 at 9:22 pm

        I don’t think it’s so much that we’ve let the relationship drift on our side. It’s more a case of Australia thinking they have bigger fish to fry as they reach for middle-power status. At any rate, if this is a reset it’s welcome.
    • RedBaronCV 10.2

      4 May 2020 at 2:19 pm

      I think Scomo wants to bask in the positive "halo" effect around Jacinda. She's had a lot of good publicity so he may be wanting some of it to rub off on him. Suspect he needs it. Next Mike Pence will be wanting a phone in!!?
      • Gabby 10.2.1

        4 May 2020 at 7:01 pm

        Mike Pants would be more likely to institute a trade war.
    • observer 10.3

      4 May 2020 at 2:54 pm

      "this suggests her stance on AUS/NZ relations has not been as damaging as some alarmists on the right would have us believe."

      Too many hilariously bad takes to choose from, especially after Ardern's last trip across the Tasman, where (shock!) a NZ PM spoke up for NZ. Here's one of the classics …

      "Should she be returned to power, a prospect that looks remote, Jacinda Ardern has almost zero likelihood of a rapprochement with our PM." (The Australian, March 5 2020 – emphasis added).

      (it's subscription only, but you can copy/Google the quote)
      • ScottGN 10.3.1

        4 May 2020 at 9:29 pm

        That says it all really doesn’t it? They’ve spent the last 3 years convinced she was just some weird aberration and that normal service would resume. Frankly I’m happy if they continue to underestimate her.
11. Dennis Frank 11

    4 May 2020 at 1:55 pm

    TDB's got a good appraisal of the reeferendum: "under this model almost everyone wins. Access to cannabis will be legal yet controlled, medical access gets easier and cheaper, current providers aren’t locked out and can go legal, social equity provisions are built in, overseas corporates are blocked, micro cultivators have a place, sales taxes support increased health and education and don’t just disappear to a general government fund, our police get better things to do, and people will have legal options other than alcohol." https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/05/04/cannabis-referendum-bills-recipe-for-success/

    "A Yes vote will take away money and influence from organised crime, and it will reduce the dominance of our alcohol industry, and the pharma trade won’t be part of this. There won’t be cannabis stores on every corner. There won’t be a Big Cannabis industry. and imports won’t be allowed. Vertical integration will be banned, and advertising prohibited, so those who banked on a big corporate approach may be ruing their bets. Instead, this model supports local growers, producers and small businesses."

    "The parties that make up the current Government have pledged to make the result binding. They’ve put forward the Bill, so they’re obviously supportive of it. Notably, the final version of the Bill has not backtracked on any parts of the earlier draft."

    I'm surprised & pleased by the constructive collaboration of NZF. Well done, all involved in the process!
    • Bruce Ellis 11.1

      4 May 2020 at 2:06 pm

      I seem to recall that in the early days of debate about legalisation especially in regard to medicinal cannabis that Grey Power (or a significant part of them) were strongly in favour, so this may have something to do with NZF's attitude.
      • KJT 11.1.1

        4 May 2020 at 2:36 pm

        So they should be. They were all smoking it, back in the day.
        • woodart 11.1.1.1

          4 May 2020 at 6:04 pm

          not just back in the day. you would be surprised how much gets used in places like waikanae beach.
          • KJT 11.1.1.1.1

            4 May 2020 at 8:26 pm

            Not really surprised.

            See the hypocrisy around me almost every day. Employers complaining about young employees doping and drinking. They would never have passed a drug test, back in their day.
    • Bearded Git 11.2

      4 May 2020 at 3:36 pm

      Personally I think permitting one entity to control 20% (one-fifth) of the market is too much, This should be reduced to 10-15%.

      It's also a shame about the gummy bears….
      • Dennis Frank 11.2.1

        4 May 2020 at 3:55 pm

        Yeah I'm with you on reducing the possibility of cartel formation like petrol retailers, but I assume the regulator will keep an eye on that tendency. Unlike the USA, we are small enough a democracy that regulator-capture isn't obviously happening.
    • millsy 11.3

      4 May 2020 at 7:47 pm

      Yet Mullah Bob al-McCroskie of the Christian Taliban is still not happy. If he had his way, people with a spliff in their pocket would be publicly flogged in Aotea Square.
      • The Al1en 11.3.1

        4 May 2020 at 7:59 pm

        Let those without a skin cast the first stone(er).
      • Herodotus 11.3.2

        4 May 2020 at 8:28 pm

        Take heed of the fate of Oedipus.😉
      • woodart 11.3.3

        4 May 2020 at 11:30 pm

        what is it with powermad christians and flogging ? isnt he the loving father who wants to relegalise giving your kids a love punch?
12. bill 12

    4 May 2020 at 4:19 pm

    Remember RussiaGate?

    A wee while back the case against the IRA was dropped, and now we find out that the outgoing administration, through the FBI, deliberately set up Flynn on minor crimes of process which they then used to puff up their whole Russia conspiracy crap.
13. Muttonbird 13

    4 May 2020 at 6:19 pm

    Farrar watch:

    David reduced to complaining about Hezbollah and their possible influence in New Zealand.
    • Peter 13.1

      4 May 2020 at 10:40 pm

      Dd you expect him to headline a certain poll?
    • sumsuch 13.2

      5 May 2020 at 12:34 am

      With his 400 commenters a blog.

      But the lack of those involved anymore in current events and their alienation from organised society in the Rogernomics era is just an open door to bullshit, and the Right has the copyright on that.
14. Muttonbird 14

    4 May 2020 at 6:30 pm

    Simon's been quiet after today's announcements. Perhaps Crosby Textor have advised him not to jump on the soap-box so soon this time.
15. Grafton Gully 15

    4 May 2020 at 6:49 pm

    The craft industry has promise, based on a long tradition of quality and uniqueness and I'm hoping will continue the Covid 19 rebirth of knitting and other handcrafts. The luxury goods market will not die. A hand knitted item from locally grown, spun and dyed fibres posted to a status conscious consumer overseas with cash to spend and rellies and friends to impress or gift could be a nice little earner.

    https://www.aucklandmuseum.com/discover/research/crafting-aotearoast
16. Bruce 16

    4 May 2020 at 6:58 pm

    Blood test today, what a nightmare, queue in the rain, people pushing past to front, maybe texted because its their turn. No staff long wait. In and out same tiny entry. If it was a burger bar would be shut down, Privatisation, lowest tender wins, all for profit. I should have flagged it but its a time dependant test.
17. pat 17

    4 May 2020 at 7:29 pm

    "In other words many businesses – whether S&P 500 companies or small and medium-sized enterprises – will be rendered insolvent by the pandemic. No amount of liquidity, however, cheap, will avert that fate.

    There are estimates that about 16 per cent of US listed companies either couldn’t cover their interest costs or barely covered them even before the crisis has cost them months of lost cash flow.

    With the likelihood that any recovery will be slow and halting rather than the "V-shaped" recovery US markets had been pricing in since March 23, it is probable that the pandemic will cut swathes through corporate and Main Street America, along with similar impacts, albeit to differing degrees, on the rest of the world’s economies."

    https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/bandaids-not-cures-the-economic-reality-of-the-pandemic-may-have-set-in-for-investors-20200504-p54pki.html
18. Muttonbird 18

    4 May 2020 at 7:34 pm

    "We're a society that is governed by the rule of law, which means the state can't exercise power over people without the legal authority to do so," he told Magic Talk host Ryan Bridge on Monday.

    Hey, Chris Findlayson, remember that time you let Police exercise power over Nicky Hager without the legal authority to do so?

    “I remember, going back to my time as Security Minister, [the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet] had a list of national security concerns, and the pandemic possibility was toward the top of that list.” he said.

    Right underneath Nicky Hager, who seemed to be the start and finish of the Prime Minister’s security concerns.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/coronavirus-troubling-arrests-during-lockdown-undermine-rule-of-law-in-new-zealand-former-attorney-general.html
    • millsy 18.1

      4 May 2020 at 7:42 pm

      People like Tinkerbell are really over reacting here. Making it sound like people are being snatched off the streets to be never seen again.
19. newsense 19

    4 May 2020 at 7:35 pm

    Starting to get other changes being made without full scrutiny – immigration, RMA

    Bit of a worry
    • Incognito 19.1

      4 May 2020 at 11:51 pm

      RIA
20. pat 20

    4 May 2020 at 9:35 pm

    "In fact, nobody upheld the public-health interventions as long as they should have. San Francisco reduced mortality by at least 25% – the highest rate among US cities. But, rather than reinforcing its commitment to its interventions, this success led the city to cancel its restrictions in November; a second, much deadlier wave of infections followed in December and January. Had San Francisco sustained its social-distancing rules for longer, the National Academy of Sciences estimates, it could have cut the death toll by 95%."

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/04/how-to-avoid-a-w-shaped-global-coronavirus-recession

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,” George Santayana famously quipped in 1905….. all those clamouring for level 2 and trans tasman travel might want to consider such.
    • Tricledrown 20.1

      5 May 2020 at 1:29 pm

      Pat Science and truth is better than politicians and BS
      • pat 20.1.1

        5 May 2020 at 1:39 pm

        Science and truth are also superior to business self interest and deception…the question is , where do those making the decisions stand?
21. Eco Maori 21

    5 May 2020 at 8:43 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Global warming is still having big negative effects yet we still don't have efficient plans to minimise Global warming.

    We are lucky to have the 21st century commutation devices to help businesses function during isolation there are many ways to make money using the Internet.?????.

    That's is cool a company making a more cost effective ventilator in Aotearoa.

    Ka kite Ano
22. Eco Maori 22

    5 May 2020 at 6:27 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That would be good tourists travel between Australia and Aotearoa.

    I think our tamariki will be safe going back to school.

    We had big thunder storm last night.

    Ka kite Ano.
23. Eco Maori 23

    5 May 2020 at 6:54 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    It good seeing tangata moving back to their whenua.

    Chur bro great mahi.

    Ka kite Ano.
24. Eco Maori 24

    6 May 2020 at 8:45 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    That's is cool that person gifting $100 dollar notes. The people that needed it would take the money.

    That's correct climate change will make some countries very hostile to lives outside of air conditioned building.

    That's a good video.

    Ka kite Ano.
25. Eco Maori 25

    6 May 2020 at 6:30 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    I would not gamble like Sweden is with people lives.

    Ka kite Ano.
26. Eco Maori 26

    6 May 2020 at 6:48 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    I think that our government will help Maori through these hard times.

    I quite like Troy's waita

    Ka kite Ano
27. Eco Maori 27

    7 May 2020 at 8:47 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Its great to see grass roots sports getting a funding boost.

    Regenerative Agriculture will be a great way to protect our environment for the many generation to come and create more mahi

    Ka kite Ano

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