Update on the Mataraunga Maaori component in first year uni paper from an anecdotal perspective.
Was reinforced in test that concepts and understanding had to relate only to lecturer's definitions, personal knowledge or alternate definitions would be marked as wrong.
Eg. What is the definition of whanau?
The only 'right' answer, is your direct ancestors. Any other definition – no marks.
Also, MM questions twice the points for no discernible reason.
This approach is inviting resistance and pushback.
I support the intention of mātauranga Māori, but am concerned about the implemention of the project.
To me, this has similar hallmarks to the Equality and Diversity intention, that has been rolled out through our institutions, businesses and government departments.
Employing identified individuals as experts and representatives to provide material and ideas for projects is a starting point. However, what they produce still should be actively scrutinised for appropriateness, quality and any statement of facts should be well-evidenced.
Getting this wrong, not only means that those learning are not actually being delivered good quality material, but it provides space for justified criticism, which unfortunately gives fodder to the underlying racism for some.
My son still won't let me watch the videos, but from a personal point of view, he's dismissive of the value and quality of what was delivered to him – and hundreds of other students – by the mātauranga Māori component of the paper.
That's interesting. I hear it used in such a way in many meetings run by Māori facilitators and taiako. Have you never come across it? Might be a regional use of the word.
The ancestor definition, excludes whangai adoptions and implies a connection to bloodlines going one way, up or down from an individual.
It might be a personal perspective, but whanau for me is more of a weaving concept, pulling and connecting threads from a vast array of 'relatives' and familial connections. It's probably my personal attachment to this definition, that makes me reluctant to relinquish it.
It's not the definition that concerns me, direct ancestors is accurate in and of itself. It is the insistence that only that definition will be deemed to be correct. I love the other aspects of whanau, and if those attending this class believe there is only one 'correct' answer, they may lose a wider understanding when meeting the word in future.
That's the concept of whanau that I particularly love, where it encompasses ‘family’ in a broader concept than standard nuclear family relationships. Family in the 'heart' sense rather than the 'genetic' sense.
Seems like an unnecessarily narrow and exclusive definition.
I agree, that if this education is so prescriptive (just memorize the list of concepts and definitions), it's going to accomplish little in enculturating MM in the students – and is very likely to build resentment and push-back.
It seems the complete reversal of the te ao Maori philosophy.
When seeking the essential meaning of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, we have to defer to the indigenous version. Perhaps here we need to do the same.
We all have our reckons, but it's not really our business, is it, how words outside of English are defined. In any case, the "lecturer" might just as well be planning to expand upon their definition of "whanau" as the course proceeds. Molly's example seems very tenuous to me.
Loanwords, or borrowings, are words which are adopted into a native language from a different source language. Such borrowings have shaped the English language almost from its beginnings, as words were adopted from the classical languages as well as from successive wave of invasions (e.g. Vikings, Normans). Even by the 16th Century, long before the British Empire extended its capacious reach around the world, English had already adopted words from an estimated 50 other languages, and the vast majority of English words today are actually foreign borrowings of one sort or another.
Some may consider it culturally insensitive to ascribe new meanings to words taken/adopted from Aotearoa NZ's first language, but if history is any teacher then 'resisting the drift' will be mostly futile. Can we change?
The drift of word meanings over time often arises, often but not always due to catachresis (the misuse, either deliberate or accidental, of words). By some estimates, over half of all words adopted into English from Latin have changed their meaning in some way over time, often drastically. For example, smart originally meant sharp, cutting or painful; handsome merely meant easily-handled (and was generally derogatory); bully originally meant darling or sweetheart; sad meant full, satiated or satisfied; and insult meant to boast, brag or triumph in an insolent way. A more modern example is the changing meaning of gay from merry to homosexual (and, in some circles in more recent years, to stupid or bad).
Being dogmatic about traditional usage, or meaning, is one way of ensuring Māori becomes a dead language.
Many English words have been adopted to Māori beginning from the First European visiters. To insist only on traditional usage we would have to remove them also.
Anyway the Tamariki are voting with their feet, using Māori words, in ways and situations that are definitely not traditional.
The French tried to keep their language pristine. It didn't work.
Some of the dogmatism is just ignorance. Kids at a High school I was teaching in, kept correcting my pronunciation. One of the old Māori Teachers told them, "don't be so bloody cheeky, he is from Taranaki". She even knew which part of Taranaki, from my accent in Māori. The "correct" Māori pronunciation followed is very often Ngapuhi, which annoys the hell out of Ngāi Tahu and others.
The Te Reo course I did, was very interesting when it focused on the regional differences and dialects. I wish I could develop the same ear for regional differences in Te Reo, as easily as I can distinguish from regional differences in the UK. It's a sorry acknowledgement of my insufficient Te Reo that I have no idea.
Due to my recent foray into researching porn, I've left investigating the NZ curriculum regarding mātauranga Māori, and Sexuality and Relationship investigation.
The NCEA, and TKI websites are a pain to navigate as a novice, and material is linked to from multiple sites and pages.
Here is one such link to the Secondary Curriculum for science, where you can download a fairly short pdf on concepts.
Unfortunately, this is not the page where I found word 'whakapapa' used interchangeably with the concept of evolution. If I come across it again, I'll post.
Whakapapa for me holds such significance, in te ao Māori, that I resist the expansion of the word to encompass a concept that was not part of te ao Māori knowledge.
Another example that is shown on the CB Learning Matrix_1.pdf is for 'mauri' to refer to energy bonds at atomic levels.
"recognise that mauri is present in all matter which exists as particles held together by attractive forces"
My understanding of this word was 'life-force', a recognition of organic life-forms and/or sentience ascribed to non-organic forms. ie. mountains, rivers etc.
I would prefer to see new Māori words for concepts that were not part of mātauranga Māori but utilise existing Te Reo to create.
I'm uncomfortable with the dilution of existing language to shoehorn new concepts in. From my perspective, it demeans the original kupu, and also muddies the scientific concept.
"I'm uncomfortable with the dilution of existing language to shoehorn new concepts in. From my perspective, it demeans the original kupu, and also muddies the scientific concept.
eg. Whakapapa for evolution."
and at the same time argue for that "whanau" is "used informally to refer to a group gathered for some purpose, ie. interests. Our rugby whanau."
Seems you're supporting both points of view?
Contradicting your original objection?
You also wrote:
“I do enjoy the broader application of this particular word. It’s just one of those kupu that resonates, hopefully for all NZers.”
Is that so long as the word is “whanau” and not “whakapapa”?
The issue here is not shortening or expanding words, Robert.
It is about making sure the intent of mātauranga Māori is achieved.
My concern with my son's course, is that it seems inclined to not inspire, or encourage, and may actually cause students to resist further learning because of the content and delivery.
My concern with the curriculum matrix, is that it uses significant Māori kupu and concepts, and shoehorns in a new definition that both dilutes the original meaning, and muddies the scientific concept. Once again, inviting pushback and resistance to further learning.
In te reo Māori words frequently mean more than one thing depending on context. I find it very odd that you've swung from complaining about a too narrow a definition of whānau, to getting upset that mauri (which is a bit broader than just lifeforce anyway – it is the motivating and identifying energy) can be applied to nuclear forces or that whakapapa (which is much broader than just genealogy and encompasses all living things and geographical landmarks as ancestors in relation to the speaker) should be applied to evolution.
You seem to want your cake and to eat it too.
kiaora e te whānau is a common expression used with all sorts of groups that aren't related ancestrally.
Hard to comment on the story told because it's third hand anecdote, but on the face of it it seems an odd definition to me. It's also possible there was context that makes sense of it.
Whanau as used by Māori speakers today, from both personal observation and reading can include groups of friends, family both immediate or distant, a school community, a club.
Not just or even for kāwai, roots/ ancestors
May not have been past usage. But Māori like all languages evolves and adopts.
My non-Māori aunt didn’t Whakapapa to the Iwi, but she was certainly Whanau!
My option is to do an OIA for the videos of the lectures, and the written material.
Although my son has access, he is a rule follower. All online material has a statement that it is not to be shared with those not enrolled, and so he doesn't.
I understand that my perspective of his perspective is not an accurate rendering. Part of the reason I write this, is just to invite others to put forward their experiences. Or if they are in positions to access or scrutinise material, to do so.
If I can, I can find out the course code and stream. And perhaps, put in a request for that material but I'll wait till my son has completed this semester.
(ATM, still negotiating being in the same room while he re-watches. Two problems: he considers that dishonest, and he doesn’t want to watch it again.)
I took it to mean that it only related to people of direct ancestry, rather than a replacement for tupuna. More a definition that related to shared blood links, as it were.
Once again, I acknowledge that this is my interpretation, of his interpretation being offered to you to interpret.
Not a sound basis for definitive analysis. More a check diagnostics light.
"The only 'right' answer, is your direct ancestors."
That's very imprecise and perhaps causing confusion here.
Was "your direct ancestors" in fact the answer given, an interpretation of the answer given, or what?
If we are to make judgements based on this snippet (is it copied and pasted, is it second-hand, over-heard ? etc.) we are bound to get the wrong end of te rakau, imo.
As I said, it might be. But both during lectures, and before the test they were reminded that only the material and definitions that were taught during the course were going to be considered the 'correct' answers when it came to assessment.
(I'm really resisting the temptation to log on to my son's computer, and "assess" his interpretation of what is going on. But perhaps, someone reading this also has access to the course materials, and can provide direct experience.)
The lecturer did touch on the fact that others may have different definitions, tikanga etc, but for the purposes of assessment only those which had been delivered were accepted.
For the course I did on Tikanga Māori, the opposite was encouraged. As long as you referenced the origin of your understanding, and evidenced it, the contribution was accepted as valid. A really good exploratory assignment, especially when sharing with other students.
(My other cynical thought, is that for a generalised paper, this edict makes it easy to mark. That it all may boil down to a prosaic attitude of reducing marking time, for a lecturer that has more specific and labour-intensive courses to deliver.)
"But both during lectures, and before the test they were reminded that only the material and definitions that were taught during the course were going to be considered the 'correct' answers when it came to assessment."
Seems then, they were quite specific and gave fair direction and warning.
And especially unusual in teaching Te Reo or Maturanga Maori.
All of the (many) seminars, courses and workshops I've engaged in have been a very collaborative learning style. Where the knowledge of the course leader (being generously shared with the participants) is acknowledged and valued; but so is the knowledge that different participants bring to the discussion. I've been in a workshop where there was a long discussion about the different usage of a term on one marae in the FN (participant) and another in the SI (course leader) – very good-humored, and clearly a source of amusement to both of them; and another which was specifically related to an upcoming powhiri, where the leader specifically referred to the way things were done on this marae, rather than being necessarily correct for other marae.
This 'fount of all knowledge' style seems very foreign to the whole Matauranga Maori philosophy.
The direction and following assessment is not what concerns me, Robert.
If the intention is to both introduce and instill encouragement for further learning of Te Ao Māori in students – the way this has been delivered might actually do the opposite.
I'm concerned about the resulting attitude of the students, rather than my son's mark.
Are any students there going to be inspired to look further into the perspectives of Māori?
The other less desired prospect is that they may also react negatively to future contact with te Ao Māori if they come away with a sense that it is not relevant or quality information.
'Fair' as in easy to mark and to learn. Yep.
Useful, in actually inculcating MM into the learning (the stated aim)? I'd say fairly useless.
And, absolutely inviting push-back. I'd say that most of the Engineering students (I think that's the background here) are likely to simply learn for the exam, then promptly forget it. Just another set of useless 'facts'
A largely wasted exercise.
And especially useless for anyone who has had exposure to MM through other avenues (e.g. kohanga reo, kura or marae) – where the learning (as presented here) sounds very different to what they would have learned in a te ao Maori perspective.
I tend to agree with Robert here. If the intention is to instill a broad brush overview of the Maori world then there is very little room for arguing a different view. The value of such a course is that it will do just this – cover concepts of language, iwi, etc tribal links, broad strokes world view and how it is linked.
One of the best bits of advice that I was told early on was to make sure you revise for exams on what has been taught, as the examiner is seeking to ensure that you have got this. This is different from you may have learned through your own explorations during the course, or prior knowledge accumulated.
So harking back to the word 'whanau' then if the course has taught this and the question gives no scope for exploring how it is used in contexts then the definition they are looking for is direct family.
Getting a law degree way way back at some institutions required Latin, or a foreign language. In my years we had some topics loosely covered by the phrase Law In Society. The idea was to give a background, an at ease look at the wider community we would be working in.
Over the years in the PS we were required to attend courses on Maori worldview/Maori language. For me this just built on classes at my secondary school and living in a mainly Maori township where the teachers routinely taught this. Now some PS agencies especially those in Treaty sensitive areas have an expectation or think highly of staff who have attended immersion courses.
I cannot imagine that a world going forward for an engineer would not cover the Maori world view. If you look at the story of how Ngati Tuhoe approached the building of Te Kura Whare then you will note the lengths that people working on the design etc of the building would have had to go to.
Input of a Maori aspect from the start, to put it bluntly is expected in most (all?) public building and this will only increase as the years go by. In the spirit of not not running before you can walk the course that your son is taking will be the bare minimum. Building on a bare but common minimum will set him up to explore in greater depth later.
From my personal viewpoint I would be careful of trying to trample over what might be a very carefully designed course that will give information and confidence without setting up people to argue the toss (I've seen it happen) about Treaty claims, bootstraps pulling…….etc.
If I was your son I would happily keep what I have learned, ie valuable concepts, from this course in my back pocket and reflect on them. If I had deviated along the way to have thoughts about pedagogy I would put that to one side.
Maori is used much more frequently now and if he can see that whanau has already gone on to be used as an encompassing way to describe club members then he can see language and culture at work.
Thoughtful and comprehensive response there, Shanreagh.
I'm mindful that this section of the engineering course focused on matauranga Maori, not te reo Maori per se.
The fact though, that the two "threads" are so intertwined is a crucial one and worthy of further exploration.
In my sphere of engagement, local government through regional council, I observe the wrangling over matauranga and reo with the central focus on te mana o te wai and hauora; highly-charged points of both misunderstanding and breakthrough.
I'm mindful that this section of the engineering course focused on matauranga Maori, not te reo Maori per se.
Yes I realise that and for me that gives even more relevance to the idea of reflecting back what a student has been taught. So the student gives their knowledge back to the tutor. In giving back this knowledge to the tutor then the tutor is also able to learn – to work out where they may have to apply a different emphasis for their learners in the future. I think a tutor would be disappointed in themselves if students got themselves tangled up in extensions to meanings so much so that the original meaning was lost.
We might be able to mount an argument as a new learner of a language. though for me it is more about idiom, tenses et and my questioning is about what I can see as inconsistencies. To mount an argument on the cultural aspects on the strength of the work of a semester or two would be fraught I would have thought. I would be very, very wary that this gave me any great insight into the culture and lived in experience behind the words. For instance even though I speak German and French I would be very skeptical that this gave me standing to debate, say, the German word das Volk. It is so tied up with other historical and cultural concepts.
The best outcome for a course of this type is to build an awareness of different worlds/drivers. If it has a result down the track of ensuring an engineer responds to a brief that looks as though it may involve Te Ao by saying I'll be sure to get specialist input on this, or makes the same engineer mindful and respectful of Te Ao Maori, even down to being able to introduce themselves or knowledge of hapu/iwi structures, creation story etc then the course will have been successful. Humility and knowing what you don't know, when this is important is a key value too.
The engineers involved in the Ngati Tuhoe house would have been far beyond this prelim knowledge but they, and the clients both, would have been expecting that anyone who came with input would be aware of it.
He also took pains to mention, that he could be wrong. So, as I said, it may be hearsay + hearsay = completely wrong end of the stick.
Because of Covid restrictions, all the lectures were recorded and put online.
Also, it could just be that this is a generalised course and not a good example. I posted below:
(My other cynical thought, is that for a generalised paper, this edict makes it easy to mark. That it all may boil down to a prosaic attitude of reducing marking time, for a lecturer that has more specific and labour-intensive courses to deliver.)
Thermodynamics was one of the subjects I enjoyed the most and attained an A+ in at each level. So most of this looks like a very recognisable introduction:
Course Overview
ENGGEN 140 (Energy & Society) is a fundamental course for first year engineering students. It introduces important concepts of thermodynamics – the science of the relationship between heat, work, temperature, and energy. ENGGEN 140 applies these concepts to a range of renewable energy systems and biomedical applications. Furthermore, ENGGEN 140 discusses energy storage systems in the form of battery technologies and biofuels.
As a steppingstone in the pathway to a professional engineering degree in New Zealand, ENGGEN 140 interlinks fundamental engineering concepts with learning about engineering ethics, decision-making processes, Te Ao Māori and the Māori economy. The role of creativity in developing solutions is also explored within the course.
ENGGEN 140 is an introduction to solving complex engineering problems related to the energy sector while considering effects on communities and the environment.
But in my honest view introducing cultural concepts into this course feels contrived. The laws of the universe owe nothing to human social habits and outlooks:
Yeah – I recall one paper we did that was a series of about 3 or 4 invited lecturers from other depts like Philosophy, Anthro and Law. Quite interesting but very relaxed. So there is nothing terribly new about trying to inject a little couth into first year Engineering students.
One line the Philosophy guy came up with is that the subject was often considered so divorced from real life, that meeting your Philosophy tutor in a pub was like meeting your mother in a massage parlour. Mutually embarrassing.
Like all languages there are often synomyms for similar meanings. Whanau strictly means your immediate living relatives, but like the English word family, it can be used flexibly. For example in English we might say 'the family of humanity' or a 'family of Pacific cultures'. On the other hand there are pedants in every culture.
As for ancestors – the more accurate word I think is whakapapa. IIRC.
When Stuart Nash left his weekly radio slot with Mikey and Mark Mitchell, I was hoping Nash would be replaced with Kiri Allan. Allan seems to me to be a straight up sheila with brains. However, we got Megan Woods. And I must say after a couple of mediocre sessions, she has found her stride. She cleaned Mitchell up in their last debate.
Nice one Robo. National's tactic to attack Labour on an issue they are strong on and National were useless on seems a bit daft…but that's Chris Bishop for you.
"Do you think those that are responsible for local drinking, waste and provision of storm water services should be directly accountable to voters"
Now faced with such a question, who would think too carefully about just what "directly' meant, or whether "those responsible" are local government, regional Councils, or the New Zealand Government? Not surprisingly, a large majority of people answering the question wanted those responsible (whoever they are) to also be accountable – most readers of The Standard may have answered the question that way. Our NZ Govt has responsibility for setting standards and seeing them met – and we saw the last National (party) government set low standards, then deliberately interfere with Environment Canterbury to prevent enforcement, leading to now compromised aquifer supply and problems for towns and cities. Now it could be argued that the Taxpayers union are reprehensible for such a poorly worded survey, and for their poor judgement in the interpretation they placed on the results, and David Farrar has allowed that report to carry the Curia Logo. Has Farrar failed to meet minimum professional polling standards by such a misleading question and such a misleading report on the results?
I'd have thought that the question encompassed all of the possibilities of 'directly accountable' (government, regional government, local government) – that you've suggested.
What it doesn't encompass is a multi-layer appointed bureaucracy and co-governance by iwi (the governance model proposed under 3 waters)
Neither of which are accountable to voters at all. And I have yet to see this meaningfully addressed by Mahuta, or anyone else involved in 3 waters.
I suspect that those completing the survey absolutely understood the question, and answered accordingly.
You may not like the answer. But I suspect that Labour may be about to find out just how much Kiwis don't like this model of governance.
But do we have any level of accountability to voters or consumers with our electricity or telecommunications services? Or even roading, which is mostly controlled by Waka Kotahi, a government agency.
Democratic control of our water services by local government politicians hasn't really served us that well, and the right's alternatives of contracting and privatisation are unlikely to do any better.
I welcome the balance that Maori representaion on the boards of the 3 Waters entities will bring. In Otago Ngāi Tahu have had a governance role over our lakes, waterways and landscape for 20 years and the world hasn't ended. Many would say that it's a much better world, once Ngāi Tahu became involved Councils actually started doing something about their sewage discharges into waterways. Still a long way to go but there's been a change in direction. The balance between Te Ao Māori and Pakeha dominion will put our society in a more sustainable place into our future.
It will provide a constructive conflict in a similar way to the USA's constitution has various governance groups complementing each other, often in conflict, to provide a stable and constructive governance.
I welcome iwi involvement, and think there are lots of benefits for everyone from co-governance. I'm considerably less convinced that bods in Chch can make good decisions about small towns in Southland or Otago.
"Or even roading, which is mostly controlled by Waka Kotahi, a government agency."
Yes, we do. If it's controlled by the government, we get to vote on the policies every 3 years. Whereas AT – an unelected roading and transport bureaucracy in Auckland, which is apparently entirely uncontrolled by the council (in practice) – appears to have no redress from voters, whatsoever. Just a never-ending stream of wasteful projects, and apparently no money to deal with basic repair work.
You have a choice with power or telecoms – if you don't like the policies (or ethics) of one of the companies, you can pick up your account and vote with your wallet – at any time.
Not really an option with water….
Any time someone says 'democtratic control ….. hasn't served us well' – a shiver runs up my spine. That is *exactly* how autocracies begin…. always with the 'best' of intentions. But "all power has a tendency to corrupt, and absolute power has the tendency to corrupt absolutely".
Anyone who truly believes that the right wants to privatize and sell off water – should be fighting this legislation tooth and nail. It's virtually impossible to sell off a fragmented asset (as water currently is), but much, much easier to sell off one which has been nicely packaged into a single organization. Personally, I don't believe that the right has any such intention – but if you do, then this is the riskiest legislation that you could possibly support. At some point, a right government *will* be elected…
Ngai Tahu have nicely enriched their tribal elite (as have Tainui) – I've yet to see any sustainable benefit to the rest of NZ (or, indeed to the rest of Maori – especially the urban Maori who have some of the worst social outcomes).
Councils across the whole of NZ have been 'doing something' about discharges of sewerage – it's difficult to claim that it's entirely due to iwi influence. And Ngai Tahu, at least, are substantial dairy farmers – I'm sure that's true of other iwi in other regions as well.
The operation of 3 Waters is generally contracted out to either the TA's CCO, another TA's CCO, or a completely private organisation like Fulton Hogan, Downer or Veolia. The last two groups have quite a bit of power over the contracting TA, I've heard the relationship described as akin to farming.
Nact aligned parties have been at the forefront of this contracting, so it’s definitely the way they want things. it’s done one little bite at a time and then merged into larger and larger organisations that gradually creep into multinational corporates.
The proposed reforms will put a few controls over this. It'll be mostly the same organisations / people doing the work but the scale will hopefully bring a lot of functions back in-house and curb the farming.
Very good for retirement jobs for ex National MP' s.
The fact of the creeping privatisation that has been happening with public assets, including those mostly under the RADAR by council's, is ignored by 3 waters opponents. Obviously because they are happy for it to continue.
are you saying 'it's already happeing, so what's the problem?"
If not, please point to the parts of the 3 Waters plan that are specifically designed to prevent privatisation.
My understanding is that councils either do work themselves, contract out to private orgs, or set up organisations that are designed to function like private companies. If National wanted to sell those off, how would it do it currently, given central government doesn't have control of councils and there are still mechanisms for communities to object?
We were one election away from the whole lot being sold off in Auckland.
Banks stated intention if he got in.
Makes it much harder to keep privatisation out of public view if it cannot be done, bit by bit.
It should be stated that part of three waters is bringing more expertise into managing contracting out, which is a part of creeping privatisation of asset management we should oppose. But if it is happening it needs a much greater degree of competent oversight.
Examples are Air NZ and other privatisations which didn't go unnoticed. Note however that National cared so much about democracy that they went ahead anyway. Not without public opposition, though.
Hence labour currently trying to entrench anti -privatisation provisions. The part of the Three Waters bill that opposes privatisation. National, who have suddenly become concerned about public ownership, sic. are opposing them.
Anyone who truly believes that the right wants to privatize and sell off water – should be fighting this legislation tooth and nail. It's virtually impossible to sell off a fragmented asset (as water currently is), but much, much easier to sell off one which has been nicely packaged into a single organization.
I've seen two examples of privatisation of the 3 Waters management in Queenstown, along with other QLDC functions. The first with with contracting to the old works management, who then sold out to another TA's contracting arm was a disaster, the second to a multi national organisation really hasn't lived up to it's promises and may reveal a few unpleasant surprises under the carpet once it's over. QLDC initially wasn't supportive of the 3 Waters proposal, now they are. QLDC have seen the alternatives and see 3 Waters as the preferred option. The real opportunities for privatisation are the small, failing, TA's that don't have an alternative, QLDC was very much in that situation and it looked like a good idea at the time.
"Ngai Tahu have nicely enriched their tribal elite"
Well if you call Ngāi Tahu's engaged community a 'tribal elite' you'd be right. I'm seeing an organisation that going from strength to strength growing and supporting it's members and the surrounding community and environment. I wish I had the whakapapa to be fully engaged.
If the left properly understood the iwi entities as essentially nothing more than family owned private corporations with a closed shareholding – then Three Waters would be seen in a quite different light.
Don't think corporation is quite the right description. While the iwi entities are very commercial, there is an equal benevolent focus, often benefiting the wider community.
Could the same be said for Fonterra, Farmlands or Gloriavale? All similarly closed 'corporations'
Wishing those "iwi entities" well – both ‘sides’ can teach us all a thing or two.
Indigenous history, culture and values as investment philosophy: lessons from the New Zealand Māori [3 March 2022]
MAHI [Māori Asset Holding Institutions] have evolved over the last 30 years as the investment and commercial arms of iwi (tribal) organizations, in New Zealand. They seek to grow and sustain the financial and natural resources they have and continue to receive through the Treaty settlement process with the Government for redress of historical grievances against Māori, the indigenous people.
…
Iwi have indeed adopted the principles and language of traditional Western investment strategies, but a shift in the investment space towards more sustainable investment practices provides an opportunity for iwi to assert a more indigenous approach which is grounded in issues of sustainability and tribal wellbeing.
Who is promoting this "tad presumptious [sic]" idea?
Imho that idea is almost as presumptuous as the idea that Māori culture has nothing to offer non-Māori when it comes to ethical investment/investiment and sustainability.
RL, it's hilariously hypocritical that all this 'concern' is being whipped up at the slightest hint of Māori making a bit of 'unearned' profit, when NZ and the rest of the world is awash with unearned profit as it is. Little more than fearmongering, imho.
Now if only there was a mechanism to distribute a slightly larger proportion of the existing unearned profit more equitably…
As for your presumptuous question, it's a non sequitur, don't you think? But, for the record (again), I consider myself a bit of a 'lefty' and yet I can't make head nor tail of it.
One more try: who (apart from you) is promoting "the idea that only Maori know how to advocate for ethical investiment and sustainability"?
Well, open to anyone with a bit of cash to spare – and here we are.
NZ’s perverse ethnic wealth gap[27 July 2020]
Pete McKenzie traces Aotearoa's wide – and worsening – wealth gap between ethnic groups back to colonial land confiscation
“We have an opportunity to ask whether the system is geared up to produce equitable wealth distribution between Māori and non-Māori. If these disparities are increasing, then the answer is no, it’s not. There’s something wrong with the system.”
Perhaps each ‘side’ can teach us all a thing or two.
Had you noticed the dates in the article you linked? The point at which EY's profits skyrocketed was 2017 – virtually doubling every year until 2020 – god knows what they are now.
Yes I had noticed that the no. 1 health priority for Andrew Little is apparently reorganizing the Health administration infrastructure.
Wouldn't be mine.
Still no explanation why contractor costs by DHBs were controlled under National and exploded under Labour.
Hint, the DHB governance model didn't change.
Also the DHBs were established under the 5th Labour Government (Helen Clark) – I wouldn't characterize that as a more right wing government – though perhaps you would.
If any organisation is created to look after 3 waters, it will still be ultimately accountable to the New Zealand Government – and my understanding of 3 waters is that it is intended to be directly accountable, but that is not yet clear. You are however being suitably cautious about the possibility of a lack of accountability – as I understand it the way in which some organisations in Auckland were created makes them largely unaccountable to the Auckland City Council, even though they are called Council Controlled Organisations – perhaps there should have been more consultation before that was forced on Auckland, but thankfully it seems there will be considerable consultation, and perhaps changes from both current proposals or at least current perceptions from some who are not quite aware of what they think they are opposing. Co-governance has of course been used before – Chris Finlayson speaks highly of it and apparently used it on a number of occasions. Was he and the government he was part of wrong?
I look forward to Mahuta explaining in plain language the exact checks and balances which will enable Government to control the 3 waters bureaucracy.
She has yet to do so.
And, quite frankly, with co-governance, I don't see how it would be possible, in any case.
Consultation over 3 waters has become a dirty word – with the abundant evidence that irrevocable decision are made, before the sham of consultation is carried out. I refer here to Mahuta telling outright lies to Councils that they could opt out, when she knew that Cabinet had already decided that would not be an option.
There's a huge trust deficit that the government has to overcome.
Bit hard to have a decent consultation and discussion, when any policy to try and fix the massive damage done by the right wing over the years, is greeted by a storm of lies and scare mongering bullshit.
Which you are blindly repeating.
Where were you when the Minister of Health in the National Government pushed to privatise sectors of the health system, to retire to a job with one of those private companies? You didn't give a stuff. But you are happy to repeat unsubstantiated rumours about "corruption behind three waters".
I have concerns about repeating the private sector Governance structures, which have been used for CCO's and SOE's, to distance them from democratic control. Deliberately so when the ACTiods set them up. Shows their real attitude to democracy.
However any genuine concerns and suggestions for improvement, have been lost in the bullshit.
is greeted by a storm of lies and scare mongering bullshit.
Which you are blindly repeating.
Look, if you believe that, this has all been laid out – in crystal clear language with appropriate checks and balances, and government control specifically legislated for – then please link to it.
ATM – what I'm seeing is simply a 'trust us, we know what we're doing' message from Mahuta. And, that is what you are blindly repeating.
Those of us who are sceptical of 3 waters, are *not* reassured by this. And the scepticism is hardening into opposition.
The best way to convince people is to explain: exactly how it will work, and to answer the 'what if' concerns with information about how that contingency is provided for.
It doesn't matter if you think it's 'bullshit' – explain to people exactly how that concern will be mitigated.
What, like the money wasted on a taxpayer-funded propaganda campaign (which absolutely failed, adding insult to injury).
An actual information campaign to give people answers to the inevitable questions, would have been a much better use of the money (and much less liable to being attacked).
How do you alleviate "concerns" that are basically scare mongering?
Like the sudden “concern” by the right wing about privatisation. Something they have been quietly proceeding with in council’s for decades.
Concerns such as the ones I have, are buried under a storm of "concerns" most of which are unrelated to the need to deal with under-investment and council failures with 3 waters, such as accusations of nepotism and unsubstantiated gossip about when descissions were made.
50% iwi. Government have no control over iwi, or who they choose to appoint – (and nor should they) – however, it can't be possible for the Government to control the 3 waters bureaucracy in that scenario.
RRGs who appoint the board and set the overall direction will be 50% iwi.
No requirement for the board to consist of any elected representatives (and it seems unlikely that they would – since Manuta appears to believe that they will be appointed on the basis of professional skills and competency)
You have a RRG which is in fundamental disagreement over the direction water should go in (e.g. prioritization of urban/rural infrastructure spend; differential water charges for different communities; infrastructure investment over ecological concerns)
A board member which has lost confidence of a significant % of the RRG, but is still supported by a block vote (either iwi or council)?
RRG persist in appointing a board member who is unable to work effectively with the rest of the board, or who has a fundamental conflict of interest? Or does *not* have professional skills or competency?
Board appears to be operating independently of the (notional) controlling body. What are the recall/reappointment procedures?
Government wants to establish a broad water policy – but iwi/council RRG disagree? (Does the Government just dismiss the board and take over a la Tauranga Commissioners?
A city or region is deeply unhappy with the water outcome in their area – what redress do they have? (even if they vote out 'their' representative on the RRG, this won't shift the voting balance in the group)
I'm not really interested in the statement that any of the above 'can't happen'. It might be impossible to envisage now, but over time?
We've certainly seen both Councils and Iwi have failures of leadership. I decline to believe that there is something magic about water management which would prevent this from ever happening.
I'd certainly prefer to know the methodology for dealing with the outcomes of these scenarios in advance.
Would all of you be as enthusiastic if this was being proposed by a National/Act government?
If you believe that iwi have failure over leadership, why are you so keen to give them control over water?
We can vote out poorly performing local government representatives. Neither we (nor the iwi themselves) have any mechanism to vote out poorly performing iwi leadership.
Councils that have failures of leadership can be replaced in a democratic society.That is the remedy against maladministration.
In the forthcoming local elections,there is a high probability that many will be removed with expedient demise,Mostly for incompetence and the failure that they have a duty of care for their locality (read fiscal responsibilty)
The high levels of debt being racked up by the incumbents are unsustainable.
3 Waters cost are over 1.5 billion without any forecast in efficiency, and only for the bureaucracy, and is all being funded on overseas debt.(treasury notes the high level of risk in the IT alone)
Any evidence for this? In any of the comments I've made on this or any other topic?
Or is it just a baseless slur, because you're unable to actually answer any of my arguments.
For reference, I think this is bad legislation from a democratic perspective, regardless of which party proposed it. I don’t believe that watering-down democracy for what seems like ‘good reasons’ is ever a good solution.
National and Act have announced that they would repeal 3 waters if elected. Why should they agree to entrench something they're planning on repealing?
“Evdence”. Parroting the right wing attack scare mongering.
I have been answering your arguments.
Why wouldn't NACT allow entrenching anti-privatisation provisions, if they were really against privatisation as they now claim? In case the bill gets passed. That doesn’t affect whether they retain or remove the bill.
Of course we all know that National approves of the creeping privatisation of council infrastructure and contracting out. Which is why they really oppose three waters.
Now. It would be good if we could have a sensible discussion about what form Governance of 3 waters would be. Duplicating the SOE or DHB model will be a serious mistake in my opinion, Without the scare mongering and fear of "Brown control".
“Evdence”. Parroting the right wing attack scare mongering.
I have been answering your arguments.
Haven't parroted a single thing. If the left wing base assumption is that everyone who has concerns over this legislation has been captured by the right wing, then it's not surprising that concern is hardening into opposition.
Also, you haven't answered a single argument – just attacked me, and blindly defended Mahuta.
When you characterize any concern as "scaremongering", then it's not surprising that you can't engage effectively
I've provided legitimate questions and concerns and linked to actual reported evidence.
Zip from you.
Apart from baseless assertions about what National will do in the future (no link to actual announced policy – clearly you're a thought reader), and claims that because National privatized in the past, they're automatically going to do so in the future (the 4th Labour government's track record in this area is apparently not important to you).
There is a lot of consultation to go, and some issues may well change, but the objective of meeting water standards is unlikely to change. Consultation is desirable, and that happens more easily when it is clear the the objectives and obligations on government will not be walked away from, but consultation is often assisted by clear proposals. I do not agree that consultation has become a dirty word – there are a lot of other dirty words being spoken by those who see their job as blind opposition regardless of proposals. Consultation can also be informal – it is not always carried as in a public court trial, and positions can change – at least until legislation is passed.
As for the goal, i is easy to see examples of where cooperation and yes co-governance have worked. Look at the Wanganui River, which will never be totally clear due to the ground is passes through, but which now has secure minimum water flows that avoid many previous problems, and in addition we are able to use some water to generate electricity. Compare that to the situation in Canterbury where we now have a polluted water supply for a whole region, with health impairments for many and increased costs of water treatment for others – all due to arrogant dismissal and overriding of difficult decisions where the community was divided, but should have been enabled to make better decisions themselves than those forced on them. Look at the riber through Palmerston North, which despite some efforts in recent years, continues to be a disgrace – not swimmable for much of its length due to pollution from farming, housing developments and industry. Co-governance would have helped in enabling honesty in reporting what was happening, better knowledge of the way some local politicians funded campaigns by trading zoning agreements for funding, None of us a perfect, but we can influence others by expressing our opinions, and accepting that sometimes agreement will go through a number of stages as a result – small hurdles met with flexibility while keeping end goals in view may signal honest debate rather than a sham of consultation.
Cameron Luxton – 7.5% (which those of us who want to comment on politics would be grateful for: having Luxton, Luxton and Luxon in parliament – all for different parties, would be a bit much!)
Party vote (which isn't relevant in this instance) mirrors those results
Up to 1/3 either didn't know or wouldn't say (not uncommon – many people are reluctant to tell pollsters – and many of those won't vote, either) – the 'don't knows' rarely change the polling results substantially – it only really matters in 'too close to call' races.
Now, I know that not everyone here likes or believes in polling (i.e. thinks that polls don't matter, it's only the final result, which counts).
Setting that aside.
It's not surprising that National are out in front. Tauranga has been a National (or National-Lite aka Winston Peters) stronghold for decades.
But, what Labour should be taking close note of, are Tinetti's results.
Again, it's not surprising that she's dropped back from 38% in 2020. That was the Jacinda bounce – unprecedented, and not likely to ever occur again. But she's dropped to 22% from the 26% she had in 2017. Remember 2017 was against Bridges, a sitting MP, and pretty popular in Tauranga. Now she's standing against a relative unknown. I wouldn't expect her to win, but I would expect that Labour may be concerned over this evident softening of support. While by-elections rarely favour the sitting government, they also usually favour a current MP (albeit a List one) over a newcomer – just through name-recognition.
While the Green party vote is low at 3% – given that they're not standing a candidate in the by-election, I don't think they'll be too worried about this (out-of-sight = out-of-mind for most voters)
The question has been asked several times recently whether Tauranga is a racist city. Apparently in this same poll only 51% of respondents disagreed.
Bluntly, I'd say a lot of Tauranga residents who vote National have a problem with Maori in general, and they certainly have a problem with any form of partnership as described by Te Tiriti. This progressive government's bold plan for redress is not popular with racists.
All those Kiwifruit orchards are built on stolen land but the owners and benefactors can't bring themselves to admit it.
I would far prefer Labour, and specifically Labour Maori, continue the drive for real change and take some hits rather than run scared of the Western BOP elite.
If around 60% of Tauranga consists of wealthy elite (whether pakeha or Maori) – we should be rolling it out as a template for the rest of the country. /sarc/
People, by and large, vote for the policies (and politicians) which they believe will benefit them.
MPs act for the best of all of their constituents – not just the ones who they think voted for them (or the ones which share their ethnicity). Peters, for example, did very, very well for the people of Tauranga while he was their local MP. To describe them as 'useless Maori' is one of the most profoundly racist statements I've read on TS.
You can't simply condemn electorates as racist because they don't (or won't) vote the way you'd like them to. Especially where they have a demonstrated history of voting for candidates regardless of ethnicity. Should we declare the people of Mt Albert racist because they have never elected a Maori MP?
After all, the majority of Maori don't vote for TPM – which would seem to be the party which would advocate best for Maori. Perhaps they're all less racist than you think.
The term, "useless Maori" is not mine, it is Willie Jackson's:
Willie Jackson says Act leader David Seymour is not just a "useless Māori", but is a dangerous politician.
Māori Development Minister Jackson yesterday said the Act leader could claim Māori whakapapa but was a "useless Māori" and a "useless advocate for Māori".
David Seymour of course having the same attributes as both Winston Peters and Simon Bridges with respect to advocating for Maori. Simply, they didn't.
The right and hard right in varying degrees hate the idea the public should support any culture and identity despite NZ's identity heavily relying on Te Ao Maori. It's who we are but ACT's vision of NZ is one of diluted homogeny, a plain South Pacific country indistinguishable from any other western country.
This government recognises the importance of supporting Maori and Maori culture, useless Maori do not.
So, presumably the 18.2% of the Tauranga population who are Maori consist entirely of Uncle Toms?
Can you just not conceive that the majority of people in NZ – even those who live in benighted Tauranga – vote according to their political principles, rather than along racial lines?
Or can you only justify democracy when it aligns with your prejudices.
'There is a shortage of more than 400 officers across all seniority levels nationally.
The shortage is especially pronounced at Mt Eden prison, home mostly to remand prisoners who have been arrested but are yet to face trial or be sentenced.
A source familiar with internal figures said there were 102 vacancies at Mt Eden as of the last week of May.'
Come on down, we'll probably take you especially at Mt Eden
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The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
Te Rangi e tu nei (The sky above us) Te Papa e takoto nei (The land beneath us) Tatou katoa te hunga ora (To us all the living) Tena koutou katoa (Greetings) ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
Christopher Luxon: hurdles The little man from National jumps hurdles in his sleep. He’s quite good at it in his dreams and even though the reality doesn’t quite match up you have to give him credit for getting up every morning and crashing into the very first hurdle of the ...
Comment: It was a good two hours into the conversation when Tyrone Marks raised the most basic of questions when I first spoke to him in 2017. “They didn’t explain the things they did to me. They never told me why. And they still haven’t. There’s no explanation for it. ...
Madeleine Chapman rounds out Death Week on The Spinoff with a final recommendation. You can read all of our Death Week coverage here. Nothing forces you to reflect on your life and relationships quite like proximity to death. For those whose nearest and dearest have died, there are reasonably obvious ...
Whitney Greene takes us through her life in television, including the TV character she’d like to plan a funeral for and her cow lung catastrophe on The Traitors NZ. “If the phone rings, I have to answer it,” Whitney Greene from The Traitors NZ warns as we begin our My ...
Maddie Ballard reviews the debut essay collection of Pōneke writer Flora Feltham.In ‘The Raw Material’, the longest essay in Flora Feltham’s dazzling debut collection, the author heads out for a run after hours of weaving and sees the world turn to textile. “Pounding along the Parade, I saw the ...
Andy Christiansen, one half of the experimental rock-pop duo TRiPS, shares the tunes inspiring the band’s perfect weekend and new release. “Good speakers, good food, good music, no distractions”: that’s all you need to enjoy the psychedelic stylings of TRiPS, a new band formed by Fly My Pretties’ Barnaby Weir ...
Celebrating our quadrennial opportunity to become experts in a bunch of sports we never normally watch.The games of the XXXIII Olympiad are upon us. Paris will host this year’s showcase of sporting and athletic prowess, which means some late-night and early-morning viewing for us in Aotearoa.But what sports ...
The photograph is striking and beautiful, but also disturbing – a reminder that my love for John was often entangled in shame.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.In the spring of 1980, in Dunedin, shortly before his death, someone took a photograph ...
Get to know Babushka, our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Babu’s humans, Jo and Isabel, for their support. Dog name: Babushka (Babu for short) Age: 2Breed: Border Collie X poodleIf rescued, ...
Pacific Media Watch A Lebanese photojournalist who was severely wounded during an Israeli air strike in south Lebanon carried the Olympic torch in Paris this week in honour of her peers who have been wounded and killed in the field — especially in Gaza and Lebanon. Christina Assi of Agence ...
The first report in a five-part web series focused on the 15th Triennial Conference of Pacific Women taking place in the Marshall Islands this week.SPECIAL REPORT:By Netani Rika in Majuro Women continue to fight for justice 70 years after the first nuclear tests by the United States caused ...
Christopher Luxon has joined with Australia and Canada's leaders in voicing support for US President Joe Biden's ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The 2022 election brought the “teal wave” into parliament. The next election will test whether teals, who occupy what were Liberal seats, and other independents can maintain their momentum. Joining us on the Podcast ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Musgrave, Senior lecturer in Pharmacology, University of Adelaide Pixavri/Shutterstock A major Federal Court class action has been dismissed this week after Justice Michael Lee ruled there was not enough evidence to prove the weedkiller Roundup causes cancer. Plaintiff Kelvin ...
In The Week in Politics: politicians have to decide what to do about child abuse, Health NZ is booked in for major surgery and Darleen Tana returns. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University Mainstream media are surprisingly muted at the prospect of the world’s most powerful nation being led for the first time by a woman – specifically a woman of colour, Vice President Kamala ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca Bennett, PhD Student, Associate Research Fellow, Deakin University Last week, a drone delivery company called Wing (owned by Google’s parent company, Alphabet) started operating in Melbourne. Some 250,000 residents in parts of the city’s eastern suburbs can now order food from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Foo, Lecturer, Physiotherapy, Monash University pikselstock/Shutterstock In the next 40 years in Australia, it’s predicted the number of Australians aged 65 and over will more than double, while the number of people aged 85 and over will more than triple. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katrina Grant, Research Associate, Power Institute for Arts and Visual Culture, University of Sydney Jonas Åkerström’s 1790 work, Session of the Accademia dell’Arcadia on August 17 1788.Nationalmuseum/Cecilia Heisser Ever wondered whether you’d have a better chance at winning an Olympic gold ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Jones, Program Lead, Food Governance, George Institute for Global Health wavebreakmedia/Shutterstock On Thursday, Australian and New Zealand food ministers at state, federal and national levels met to thrash out what’s next for health star ratings on packaged foods. Now, after ...
The Abuse in Care report found many Pacific survivors lost their connections to their culture and language, resulting in trauma that has been carried from generation to generation. ...
In the regulatory review, ECC intends to suggest that ERO focus on curriculum delivery reviews rather than the Ministry, because it’s not efficient or effective to have two agencies with radically different approaches climbing over each other. ...
Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori invites the current government to work in partnership with them to develop a pathway forward, including the development of a parallel pathway and meaningful policy and strategy for Kura Kaupapa Māori ...
If you haven’t started watching yet, Tara Ward begs you to reconsider. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. In the world of New Zealand reality television, we have many gems in our crown. There’s the delicious second season of the Celebrity Treasure ...
A new poem by Fiona Kidman. The clothes of the dead I did not keep my mother’s furry red beret for long nor the stringy scarves that adorned the necks of my aunts, although I have kept tag ends of gold, the rings and trinkets they wore, the brooches no ...
The government’s announcement that it will re-open the foreshore and seabed controversy by changing the rules on recognising centuries-old Māori customary title for a third time goes against the rule of law and New Zealand values,” Mr Tipa says. ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Lioness by Emily Perkins (Bloomsbury, $25) Roarrrr! Perkins’ brilliant, award-winning, Marian-Keyes anointed, darkly funny, long ...
The 2004 Act vested ownership of the foreshore and seabed in the Crown, extinguishing any Māori claims to ownership and causing widespread outrage and protests among Māori communities. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Antje Deckert, Associate Professor (Criminology), Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Despite the connection between institutional harm and gang membership made clear in this week’s mammoth royal commission abuse-in care report, the government seems unlikely to soften its “get tough on ...
From Lewis Clareburt in the swimming to the start of the rowing – the first seven days of Paris 2024 promise to be big for New Zealand. There are few events that bring the country together quite like an Olympic Games. Nothing quite matches the excitement of getting up in ...
Groundbreaking local science just showed up in the most surprising of places: the season finale of The Kardashians. In the season five finale of The Kardashians last night, several members of the family gathered together in one of their signature empty, cream-coloured rooms to hear test results that had been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Saikal, Emeritus professor of Middle Eastern and Central Asian Studies, Australian National University The Middle East is on the brink of a possibly devastating regional war, with hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah reaching an extremely dangerous level. Washington has engaged in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Elizabeth Eades, Rheumatologist, Monash University Lupus is an inflammatory autoimmune illness, where the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks itself. Lupus can affect virtually any part of the body, although it most commonly affects the skin, joints and kidneys. The symptoms ...
A law firm that specialises in working with survivors of abuse in State care is disappointed that the Government fails to recognise that its boot camps can be directly compared to previous boot camps from the 1990s and 2000s. ...
Dying is a natural part of life, like updating your Wof or seeing your hairdresser, but without the word-of-mouth recs that help guarantee a good service. What if we changed that? Dying Reviews received by The Spinoff have had the names of organisations redacted while Hospice NZ collects further data. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland Mike Lewinski/Flickr, CC BY On any clear night, if you gaze skywards long enough, chances are you’ll see a meteor streaking through the sky. Some nights, however, are better than others. At ...
Despite having no bars or other designated spaces for lesbians, Auckland boasts a small but mighty lesbian museum. So how did it get here? The past 18 months has brought increasing hostility towards the queer community across Aotearoa. Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull’s anti-trans rally in Tamaki Makaurau last March led to a ...
Poneke Antifascist Coalition has invited Wellingtonians to stand in solidarity with the Kanak people at 12pm today outside the French Embassy in Wellington. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Layton, Visiting Fellow, Strategic Studies, Griffith University Drones are the signature technology of the Ukraine war. A few miniature aircraft designs were used in the war’s early days, but an incredible array of drones have now evolved. There are different types, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Slee, Associate Professor, Clinical Academic Neurologist, Flinders University Francisco Gonzelez/Unsplash Migraine is many things, but one thing it’s not is “just a headache”. “Migraine” comes from the Greek word “hemicrania”, referring to the common experience of migraine being predominantly ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lee White, Senior Lecturer and Horizon Fellow, School of Social and Political Sciences, University of Sydney Australia was slow to introduce minimum building standards for energy efficiency. The Nationwide House Energy Rating Scheme (NatHERS) only came into force in 2003. Older homes ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Steven Sherwood, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Climate Change Research Centre, UNSW Sydney The past century of human-induced warming has increased rainfall variability over 75% of the Earth’s land area – particularly over Australia, Europe and eastern North America, new research shows. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Heynen, Program Coordinator, Sustainable Energy, The University of Queensland A temporary stadium in the Champ-de-Mars, ParisEkaterina Pokrovsky/Shutterstock As Paris prepares to host the Olympic and Paralympic Games, the sustainability of the event is coming under scrutiny. The organisers have promoted ...
A night of karaoke and community in a pub that feels like a memory. You’d barely even notice it, unless you knew to look. Tucked away behind a liquor store on busy Constable Street is the capital’s last great pub. Newtown Sports Bar is an emblem of the pub culture ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Wright, Professor in Marine Geology, University of Canterbury Louise Corcoran/Getty Images The decline in the number of doctoral candidates at New Zealand universities is a worrying sign for the country’s effort to build a knowledge-based economy. Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laurie Berg, Associate Professor, University of Technology Sydney defotoberg/Shutterstock Migrant worker exploitation is entrenched in workplaces across Australia. Tragically, a deep fear of immigration consequences means most unlawful employer conduct goes unreported. On Wednesday, however, the government officially launched a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vaughan Cruickshank, Senior Lecturer in Health and Physical Education, University of Tasmania Paris is about to host its third summer Olympics. While we don’t yet know what the legacy of this year’s games will be, let’s take the opportunity to reflect on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hugh Breakey, Deputy Director, Institute for Ethics, Governance & Law, Griffith University In the wake of the assassination attempt on former US President Donald Trump, there were calls from bothsides of US politics, as well as internationally, to reduce the brutal, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Keith Rathbone, Senior Lecturer, Modern European History and Sports History, Macquarie University Two high-profile assaults on Australians in Paris have raised concerns about security ahead of the Olympic Games. On Saturday evening, a young woman was allegedly sexually assaulted by a ...
Dying is inevitable and, so it seems, is it costing a lot, writes Stewart Sowman-Lund in today’s extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here.The cost of dying ...
The government took Joyce Harris's first baby and sent her off to a girls' home. Half a century on - and out of oceans of hurt - it asked her to be a mother figure. ...
It’s the deadliest fictional town in the country, but which death has been the most bonkers? Alex Casey looks back at 10 seasons of The Brokenwood Mysteries to find out. Warning: The following ranking story contains famous New Zealand actors appearing to be dead (not alive). The Spinoff has been ...
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Update on the Mataraunga Maaori component in first year uni paper from an anecdotal perspective.
Was reinforced in test that concepts and understanding had to relate only to lecturer's definitions, personal knowledge or alternate definitions would be marked as wrong.
Eg. What is the definition of whanau?
The only 'right' answer, is your direct ancestors. Any other definition – no marks.
Also, MM questions twice the points for no discernible reason.
This approach is inviting resistance and pushback.
Moved to desktop.
I support the intention of mātauranga Māori, but am concerned about the implemention of the project.
To me, this has similar hallmarks to the Equality and Diversity intention, that has been rolled out through our institutions, businesses and government departments.
Employing identified individuals as experts and representatives to provide material and ideas for projects is a starting point. However, what they produce still should be actively scrutinised for appropriateness, quality and any statement of facts should be well-evidenced.
Getting this wrong, not only means that those learning are not actually being delivered good quality material, but it provides space for justified criticism, which unfortunately gives fodder to the underlying racism for some.
My son still won't let me watch the videos, but from a personal point of view, he's dismissive of the value and quality of what was delivered to him – and hundreds of other students – by the mātauranga Māori component of the paper.
What other definitions are you aware of, Molly?
Family, both blood-relations and non.
Also used informally to refer to a group gathered for some purpose, ie. interests. Our rugby whanau.
"Our rugby whanau"?
I'm with the lecturer 🙂
That's interesting. I hear it used in such a way in many meetings run by Māori facilitators and taiako. Have you never come across it? Might be a regional use of the word.
The ancestor definition, excludes whangai adoptions and implies a connection to bloodlines going one way, up or down from an individual.
It might be a personal perspective, but whanau for me is more of a weaving concept, pulling and connecting threads from a vast array of 'relatives' and familial connections. It's probably my personal attachment to this definition, that makes me reluctant to relinquish it.
It's not the definition that concerns me, direct ancestors is accurate in and of itself. It is the insistence that only that definition will be deemed to be correct. I love the other aspects of whanau, and if those attending this class believe there is only one 'correct' answer, they may lose a wider understanding when meeting the word in future.
That's the concept of whanau that I particularly love, where it encompasses ‘family’ in a broader concept than standard nuclear family relationships. Family in the 'heart' sense rather than the 'genetic' sense.
Seems like an unnecessarily narrow and exclusive definition.
I agree, that if this education is so prescriptive (just memorize the list of concepts and definitions), it's going to accomplish little in enculturating MM in the students – and is very likely to build resentment and push-back.
It seems the complete reversal of the te ao Maori philosophy.
How could they get it so wrong?
When seeking the essential meaning of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, we have to defer to the indigenous version. Perhaps here we need to do the same.
We all have our reckons, but it's not really our business, is it, how words outside of English are defined. In any case, the "lecturer" might just as well be planning to expand upon their definition of "whanau" as the course proceeds. Molly's example seems very tenuous to me.
Molly is an indigenous version of – well – Molly.
If tenuous is referring to a slender thread – well, that is definitely, not a definition fitting this indigenous Molly.
Some may consider it culturally insensitive to ascribe new meanings to words taken/adopted from Aotearoa NZ's first language, but if history is any teacher then 'resisting the drift' will be mostly futile. Can we change?
Being dogmatic about traditional usage, or meaning, is one way of ensuring Māori becomes a dead language.
Many English words have been adopted to Māori beginning from the First European visiters. To insist only on traditional usage we would have to remove them also.
Anyway the Tamariki are voting with their feet, using Māori words, in ways and situations that are definitely not traditional.
The French tried to keep their language pristine. It didn't work.
Some of the dogmatism is just ignorance. Kids at a High school I was teaching in, kept correcting my pronunciation. One of the old Māori Teachers told them, "don't be so bloody cheeky, he is from Taranaki". She even knew which part of Taranaki, from my accent in Māori. The "correct" Māori pronunciation followed is very often Ngapuhi, which annoys the hell out of Ngāi Tahu and others.
Are we to think that the teacher in the example given by Molly, knows less about this than we do?
[In context isn’t quite right – hope you get my drift.]
Māori have a long, and recognisable history of word creation, that contributes to the longevity of language.
ie. motukā, pouaka makariri, tīwī
A combination of transliteration, and word creation from root words.
The argument that only existing kupu are available, is not convincing. If anything, a living dynamic language is consistently creating new words.
However, if significant words are thus required to accommodate new meanings, then it may have a negative impact.
The Te Reo course I did, was very interesting when it focused on the regional differences and dialects. I wish I could develop the same ear for regional differences in Te Reo, as easily as I can distinguish from regional differences in the UK. It's a sorry acknowledgement of my insufficient Te Reo that I have no idea.
You're on fire at the moment, this is about the second post I've agreed with you on over the last couple of days
Welcome to the light side![laugh laugh](https://cdn2.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/ark-wysiwyg-comment-editor/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/teeth_smile.png?x42494)
We do not know who 'they' is yet.
Due to my recent foray into researching porn, I've left investigating the NZ curriculum regarding mātauranga Māori, and Sexuality and Relationship investigation.
The NCEA, and TKI websites are a pain to navigate as a novice, and material is linked to from multiple sites and pages.
Here is one such link to the Secondary Curriculum for science, where you can download a fairly short pdf on concepts.
https://ncea.education.govt.nz/science/chemistry-and-biology?view=learning
Unfortunately, this is not the page where I found word 'whakapapa' used interchangeably with the concept of evolution. If I come across it again, I'll post.
Whakapapa for me holds such significance, in te ao Māori, that I resist the expansion of the word to encompass a concept that was not part of te ao Māori knowledge.
Another example that is shown on the CB Learning Matrix_1.pdf is for 'mauri' to refer to energy bonds at atomic levels.
"recognise that mauri is present in all matter which exists as particles held together by attractive forces"
My understanding of this word was 'life-force', a recognition of organic life-forms and/or sentience ascribed to non-organic forms. ie. mountains, rivers etc.
I would prefer to see new Māori words for concepts that were not part of mātauranga Māori but utilise existing Te Reo to create.
I'm uncomfortable with the dilution of existing language to shoehorn new concepts in. From my perspective, it demeans the original kupu, and also muddies the scientific concept.
eg. Whakapapa for evolution.
Now I'm really puzzled, Molly. You write:
"I'm uncomfortable with the dilution of existing language to shoehorn new concepts in. From my perspective, it demeans the original kupu, and also muddies the scientific concept.
eg. Whakapapa for evolution."
and at the same time argue for that "whanau" is "used informally to refer to a group gathered for some purpose, ie. interests. Our rugby whanau."
Seems you're supporting both points of view?
Contradicting your original objection?
You also wrote:
“I do enjoy the broader application of this particular word. It’s just one of those kupu that resonates, hopefully for all NZers.”
Is that so long as the word is “whanau” and not “whakapapa”?
The issue here is not shortening or expanding words, Robert.
It is about making sure the intent of mātauranga Māori is achieved.
My concern with my son's course, is that it seems inclined to not inspire, or encourage, and may actually cause students to resist further learning because of the content and delivery.
My concern with the curriculum matrix, is that it uses significant Māori kupu and concepts, and shoehorns in a new definition that both dilutes the original meaning, and muddies the scientific concept. Once again, inviting pushback and resistance to further learning.
In te reo Māori words frequently mean more than one thing depending on context. I find it very odd that you've swung from complaining about a too narrow a definition of whānau, to getting upset that mauri (which is a bit broader than just lifeforce anyway – it is the motivating and identifying energy) can be applied to nuclear forces or that whakapapa (which is much broader than just genealogy and encompasses all living things and geographical landmarks as ancestors in relation to the speaker) should be applied to evolution.
You seem to want your cake and to eat it too.
I've replied to the same question from Robert Guyton, above.
You may have missed it:
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-04-06-2022/#comment-1892208
I couldn't understand your explanation, Molly.
I am siding with Populuxe 1, presently.
What? So a husband and wife aren't 'whanau'?
I'd say that's a fairly niche definition….
adopted children too.
kiaora e te whānau is a common expression used with all sorts of groups that aren't related ancestrally.
Hard to comment on the story told because it's third hand anecdote, but on the face of it it seems an odd definition to me. It's also possible there was context that makes sense of it.
Visiting Tahuwhakatiki Marae, Tauranga I was greated as Whanau, because I and my cousins had a Powhiri there in the past.
Whanau as used by Māori speakers today, from both personal observation and reading can include groups of friends, family both immediate or distant, a school community, a club.
Not just or even for kāwai, roots/ ancestors
May not have been past usage. But Māori like all languages evolves and adopts.
My non-Māori aunt didn’t Whakapapa to the Iwi, but she was certainly Whanau!
https://teara.govt.nz/en/whanau-maori-and-family/page-1
Nice link, thanks incognito.![yes yes](https://cdn2.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/ark-wysiwyg-comment-editor/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/thumbs_up.png?x42494)
I do enjoy the broader application of this particular word. It's just one of those kupu that resonates, hopefully for all NZers.
Māori have a word for ancestors. 'Whānau' is not it.
Someone is misunderstanding. Do you have written material from the course you could post here?
My option is to do an OIA for the videos of the lectures, and the written material.
Although my son has access, he is a rule follower. All online material has a statement that it is not to be shared with those not enrolled, and so he doesn't.
I understand that my perspective of his perspective is not an accurate rendering. Part of the reason I write this, is just to invite others to put forward their experiences. Or if they are in positions to access or scrutinise material, to do so.
If I can, I can find out the course code and stream. And perhaps, put in a request for that material but I'll wait till my son has completed this semester.
(ATM, still negotiating being in the same room while he re-watches. Two problems: he considers that dishonest, and he doesn’t want to watch it again.)
Ah, did not click that it was your son doing the course. Do you believe this sort of misunderstanding is widespread?
The drive in to university in the mornings, takes around an hour and a half. So, we were discussing material the day after it was presented.
As I acknowledge, it's a bit of a hearsay, hearsay situation. But as pedantic as he is with rules, he's similarly inclined in language.
"Do you believe this sort of misunderstanding is widespread?"
What specifically do you regard as a misunderstanding?
That whānau means ancestors. First time I’ve heard it.
I took it to mean that it only related to people of direct ancestry, rather than a replacement for tupuna. More a definition that related to shared blood links, as it were.
Once again, I acknowledge that this is my interpretation, of his interpretation being offered to you to interpret.![frown frown](https://cdn2.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/ark-wysiwyg-comment-editor/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/confused_smile.png?x42494)
Not a sound basis for definitive analysis. More a check diagnostics light.
Seems to me to be an āwhā in an ipu tii.
Molly wrote:
"The only 'right' answer, is your direct ancestors."
That's very imprecise and perhaps causing confusion here.
Was "your direct ancestors" in fact the answer given, an interpretation of the answer given, or what?
If we are to make judgements based on this snippet (is it copied and pasted, is it second-hand, over-heard ? etc.) we are bound to get the wrong end of te rakau, imo.
As I said, it might be. But both during lectures, and before the test they were reminded that only the material and definitions that were taught during the course were going to be considered the 'correct' answers when it came to assessment.
(I'm really resisting the temptation to log on to my son's computer, and "assess" his interpretation of what is going on. But perhaps, someone reading this also has access to the course materials, and can provide direct experience.)
The lecturer did touch on the fact that others may have different definitions, tikanga etc, but for the purposes of assessment only those which had been delivered were accepted.
For the course I did on Tikanga Māori, the opposite was encouraged. As long as you referenced the origin of your understanding, and evidenced it, the contribution was accepted as valid. A really good exploratory assignment, especially when sharing with other students.
(My other cynical thought, is that for a generalised paper, this edict makes it easy to mark. That it all may boil down to a prosaic attitude of reducing marking time, for a lecturer that has more specific and labour-intensive courses to deliver.)
"But both during lectures, and before the test they were reminded that only the material and definitions that were taught during the course were going to be considered the 'correct' answers when it came to assessment."
Seems then, they were quite specific and gave fair direction and warning.
I'm unsure why this is concerning you.
It seems fair to me.
Very unusual in teaching anything.
It is how you know the class are listening. When they start arguing with you.
Me. “You are allowed to disagree, but you have to justify it.
That, if correct, is poor pedogogy, and different from the approach of the excellent Māori teachers I've seen at work.
The “Agree with what I say, or be marked wrong”, if true, is not exactly going to help with student engagement and understanding.
"That, if correct, is poor pedogogy, and different from the approach of the excellent Māori teachers I've seen at work."
Same here.
I've had kaiako who repeatedly encourage wider exploration of the concepts they were teaching.
I've also, unfortunately, had others that were there to punch the clock.
There's a marked difference in how much you learn and take away.
And especially unusual in teaching Te Reo or Maturanga Maori.
All of the (many) seminars, courses and workshops I've engaged in have been a very collaborative learning style. Where the knowledge of the course leader (being generously shared with the participants) is acknowledged and valued; but so is the knowledge that different participants bring to the discussion. I've been in a workshop where there was a long discussion about the different usage of a term on one marae in the FN (participant) and another in the SI (course leader) – very good-humored, and clearly a source of amusement to both of them; and another which was specifically related to an upcoming powhiri, where the leader specifically referred to the way things were done on this marae, rather than being necessarily correct for other marae.
This 'fount of all knowledge' style seems very foreign to the whole Matauranga Maori philosophy.
Written in much better than I could have Belladonna, but this has been my experience with Te Ao Māori in various learning environments too.
"Unusual"?
The teaching of te ao Maori should be "usual" – in step with the way non-Maori languages are taught?
Disclaimer: I was Head of Maori at Aparima College for a time, and taught all levels. He kaiwhakaako Maori au! I nga wa o mua 🙂
The direction and following assessment is not what concerns me, Robert.
If the intention is to both introduce and instill encouragement for further learning of Te Ao Māori in students – the way this has been delivered might actually do the opposite.
I'm concerned about the resulting attitude of the students, rather than my son's mark.
Are any students there going to be inspired to look further into the perspectives of Māori?
The other less desired prospect is that they may also react negatively to future contact with te Ao Māori if they come away with a sense that it is not relevant or quality information.
'Fair' as in easy to mark and to learn. Yep.
Useful, in actually inculcating MM into the learning (the stated aim)? I'd say fairly useless.
And, absolutely inviting push-back. I'd say that most of the Engineering students (I think that's the background here) are likely to simply learn for the exam, then promptly forget it. Just another set of useless 'facts'
A largely wasted exercise.
And especially useless for anyone who has had exposure to MM through other avenues (e.g. kohanga reo, kura or marae) – where the learning (as presented here) sounds very different to what they would have learned in a te ao Maori perspective.
Yes. General engineering Year 1 course at Auckland University.
With more than a few of your typical Engineering student personalities, I would expect.
So, this was the matauranga component of a year one engineering degree – what were you expecting!!!
My son got back, so I wangled the course code from him:
ENGGEN140 – Energy and Society
https://courseoutline.auckland.ac.nz/dco/course/ENGGEN/140
When Googling the course, I came across the UoA review page:
https://coursereview.co.nz/courses/uoa/enggen140
It would make sense if it was being used in a specific or technical context as applied to periodic elements or biological taxonomy.
If "it" is in fact, the case.
I tend to agree with Robert here. If the intention is to instill a broad brush overview of the Maori world then there is very little room for arguing a different view. The value of such a course is that it will do just this – cover concepts of language, iwi, etc tribal links, broad strokes world view and how it is linked.
One of the best bits of advice that I was told early on was to make sure you revise for exams on what has been taught, as the examiner is seeking to ensure that you have got this. This is different from you may have learned through your own explorations during the course, or prior knowledge accumulated.
So harking back to the word 'whanau' then if the course has taught this and the question gives no scope for exploring how it is used in contexts then the definition they are looking for is direct family.
Getting a law degree way way back at some institutions required Latin, or a foreign language. In my years we had some topics loosely covered by the phrase Law In Society. The idea was to give a background, an at ease look at the wider community we would be working in.
Over the years in the PS we were required to attend courses on Maori worldview/Maori language. For me this just built on classes at my secondary school and living in a mainly Maori township where the teachers routinely taught this. Now some PS agencies especially those in Treaty sensitive areas have an expectation or think highly of staff who have attended immersion courses.
I cannot imagine that a world going forward for an engineer would not cover the Maori world view. If you look at the story of how Ngati Tuhoe approached the building of Te Kura Whare then you will note the lengths that people working on the design etc of the building would have had to go to.
Input of a Maori aspect from the start, to put it bluntly is expected in most (all?) public building and this will only increase as the years go by. In the spirit of not not running before you can walk the course that your son is taking will be the bare minimum. Building on a bare but common minimum will set him up to explore in greater depth later.
From my personal viewpoint I would be careful of trying to trample over what might be a very carefully designed course that will give information and confidence without setting up people to argue the toss (I've seen it happen) about Treaty claims, bootstraps pulling…….etc.
If I was your son I would happily keep what I have learned, ie valuable concepts, from this course in my back pocket and reflect on them. If I had deviated along the way to have thoughts about pedagogy I would put that to one side.
Maori is used much more frequently now and if he can see that whanau has already gone on to be used as an encompassing way to describe club members then he can see language and culture at work.
https://www.ngaituhoe.iwi.nz/sustainability-and-the-living-building-challenge
https://thisnzlife.co.nz/tuhoe-leading-way-sustainable-design/
Thoughtful and comprehensive response there, Shanreagh.
I'm mindful that this section of the engineering course focused on matauranga Maori, not te reo Maori per se.
The fact though, that the two "threads" are so intertwined is a crucial one and worthy of further exploration.
In my sphere of engagement, local government through regional council, I observe the wrangling over matauranga and reo with the central focus on te mana o te wai and hauora; highly-charged points of both misunderstanding and breakthrough.
Yes I realise that and for me that gives even more relevance to the idea of reflecting back what a student has been taught. So the student gives their knowledge back to the tutor. In giving back this knowledge to the tutor then the tutor is also able to learn – to work out where they may have to apply a different emphasis for their learners in the future. I think a tutor would be disappointed in themselves if students got themselves tangled up in extensions to meanings so much so that the original meaning was lost.
We might be able to mount an argument as a new learner of a language. though for me it is more about idiom, tenses et and my questioning is about what I can see as inconsistencies. To mount an argument on the cultural aspects on the strength of the work of a semester or two would be fraught I would have thought. I would be very, very wary that this gave me any great insight into the culture and lived in experience behind the words. For instance even though I speak German and French I would be very skeptical that this gave me standing to debate, say, the German word das Volk. It is so tied up with other historical and cultural concepts.
The best outcome for a course of this type is to build an awareness of different worlds/drivers. If it has a result down the track of ensuring an engineer responds to a brief that looks as though it may involve Te Ao by saying I'll be sure to get specialist input on this, or makes the same engineer mindful and respectful of Te Ao Maori, even down to being able to introduce themselves or knowledge of hapu/iwi structures, creation story etc then the course will have been successful. Humility and knowing what you don't know, when this is important is a key value too.
The engineers involved in the Ngati Tuhoe house would have been far beyond this prelim knowledge but they, and the clients both, would have been expecting that anyone who came with input would be aware of it.
Ae. Kei te tika tau.
My son got back, so I wangled the course code from him:
ENGGEN140 – Energy and Society
https://courseoutline.auckland.ac.nz/dco/course/ENGGEN/140
When Googling the course, I came across the UoA review page:
https://coursereview.co.nz/courses/uoa/enggen140
He also took pains to mention, that he could be wrong. So, as I said, it may be hearsay + hearsay = completely wrong end of the stick.
Because of Covid restrictions, all the lectures were recorded and put online.
Also, it could just be that this is a generalised course and not a good example. I posted below:
(My other cynical thought, is that for a generalised paper, this edict makes it easy to mark. That it all may boil down to a prosaic attitude of reducing marking time, for a lecturer that has more specific and labour-intensive courses to deliver.)
Thermodynamics was one of the subjects I enjoyed the most and attained an A+ in at each level. So most of this looks like a very recognisable introduction:
But in my honest view introducing cultural concepts into this course feels contrived. The laws of the universe owe nothing to human social habits and outlooks:
am momentarily distracted by the Course Review site using 'relaxed' as a criteria.
Thanks for pointing that out.
FWIW, seems to have scored fairly highly on the Relaxed criteria.
Yeah – I recall one paper we did that was a series of about 3 or 4 invited lecturers from other depts like Philosophy, Anthro and Law. Quite interesting but very relaxed. So there is nothing terribly new about trying to inject a little couth into first year Engineering students.
One line the Philosophy guy came up with is that the subject was often considered so divorced from real life, that meeting your Philosophy tutor in a pub was like meeting your mother in a massage parlour. Mutually embarrassing.
Like all languages there are often synomyms for similar meanings. Whanau strictly means your immediate living relatives, but like the English word family, it can be used flexibly. For example in English we might say 'the family of humanity' or a 'family of Pacific cultures'. On the other hand there are pedants in every culture.
As for ancestors – the more accurate word I think is whakapapa. IIRC.
Hon. Megan Woods demolished Bishop in Parliament this week.
https://twitter.com/clintvsmith/status/1532197055535656960?s=21&t=4H3eRgaENoK-UwXLJNRo1w
Geez, did Meagan feed him the questions?
Yes, thoroughly enjoyed watching that. Megan chewed him up and spat him out!
We didn't see that on ONE news though did we, wonder why.![wink wink](https://cdn2.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/ark-wysiwyg-comment-editor/ckeditor/plugins/smiley/images/wink_smile.png?x42494)
That was fun
When Stuart Nash left his weekly radio slot with Mikey and Mark Mitchell, I was hoping Nash would be replaced with Kiri Allan. Allan seems to me to be a straight up sheila with brains. However, we got Megan Woods. And I must say after a couple of mediocre sessions, she has found her stride. She cleaned Mitchell up in their last debate.
Nice one Robo. National's tactic to attack Labour on an issue they are strong on and National were useless on seems a bit daft…but that's Chris Bishop for you.
From the "Taxpayers Union":
https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/three_waters_poll2
"Do you think those that are responsible for local drinking, waste and provision of storm water services should be directly accountable to voters"
Now faced with such a question, who would think too carefully about just what "directly' meant, or whether "those responsible" are local government, regional Councils, or the New Zealand Government? Not surprisingly, a large majority of people answering the question wanted those responsible (whoever they are) to also be accountable – most readers of The Standard may have answered the question that way. Our NZ Govt has responsibility for setting standards and seeing them met – and we saw the last National (party) government set low standards, then deliberately interfere with Environment Canterbury to prevent enforcement, leading to now compromised aquifer supply and problems for towns and cities. Now it could be argued that the Taxpayers union are reprehensible for such a poorly worded survey, and for their poor judgement in the interpretation they placed on the results, and David Farrar has allowed that report to carry the Curia Logo. Has Farrar failed to meet minimum professional polling standards by such a misleading question and such a misleading report on the results?
See also https://twitter.com/TaxpayersUnion/status/1532510556128935936/photo/1
Well described, Ed1.
I'd have thought that the question encompassed all of the possibilities of 'directly accountable' (government, regional government, local government) – that you've suggested.
What it doesn't encompass is a multi-layer appointed bureaucracy and co-governance by iwi (the governance model proposed under 3 waters)
Neither of which are accountable to voters at all. And I have yet to see this meaningfully addressed by Mahuta, or anyone else involved in 3 waters.
I suspect that those completing the survey absolutely understood the question, and answered accordingly.
You may not like the answer. But I suspect that Labour may be about to find out just how much Kiwis don't like this model of governance.
But do we have any level of accountability to voters or consumers with our electricity or telecommunications services? Or even roading, which is mostly controlled by Waka Kotahi, a government agency.
Democratic control of our water services by local government politicians hasn't really served us that well, and the right's alternatives of contracting and privatisation are unlikely to do any better.
I welcome the balance that Maori representaion on the boards of the 3 Waters entities will bring. In Otago Ngāi Tahu have had a governance role over our lakes, waterways and landscape for 20 years and the world hasn't ended. Many would say that it's a much better world, once Ngāi Tahu became involved Councils actually started doing something about their sewage discharges into waterways. Still a long way to go but there's been a change in direction. The balance between Te Ao Māori and Pakeha dominion will put our society in a more sustainable place into our future.
It will provide a constructive conflict in a similar way to the USA's constitution has various governance groups complementing each other, often in conflict, to provide a stable and constructive governance.
I welcome iwi involvement, and think there are lots of benefits for everyone from co-governance. I'm considerably less convinced that bods in Chch can make good decisions about small towns in Southland or Otago.
"Or even roading, which is mostly controlled by Waka Kotahi, a government agency."
Yes, we do. If it's controlled by the government, we get to vote on the policies every 3 years. Whereas AT – an unelected roading and transport bureaucracy in Auckland, which is apparently entirely uncontrolled by the council (in practice) – appears to have no redress from voters, whatsoever. Just a never-ending stream of wasteful projects, and apparently no money to deal with basic repair work.
You have a choice with power or telecoms – if you don't like the policies (or ethics) of one of the companies, you can pick up your account and vote with your wallet – at any time.
Not really an option with water….
Any time someone says 'democtratic control ….. hasn't served us well' – a shiver runs up my spine. That is *exactly* how autocracies begin…. always with the 'best' of intentions. But "all power has a tendency to corrupt, and absolute power has the tendency to corrupt absolutely".
Anyone who truly believes that the right wants to privatize and sell off water – should be fighting this legislation tooth and nail. It's virtually impossible to sell off a fragmented asset (as water currently is), but much, much easier to sell off one which has been nicely packaged into a single organization. Personally, I don't believe that the right has any such intention – but if you do, then this is the riskiest legislation that you could possibly support. At some point, a right government *will* be elected…
Ngai Tahu have nicely enriched their tribal elite (as have Tainui) – I've yet to see any sustainable benefit to the rest of NZ (or, indeed to the rest of Maori – especially the urban Maori who have some of the worst social outcomes).
Councils across the whole of NZ have been 'doing something' about discharges of sewerage – it's difficult to claim that it's entirely due to iwi influence. And Ngai Tahu, at least, are substantial dairy farmers – I'm sure that's true of other iwi in other regions as well.
why do you think that Nact wouldn't want to privatise drinking water and waste water? Isn't it already partially privatised?
The operation of 3 Waters is generally contracted out to either the TA's CCO, another TA's CCO, or a completely private organisation like Fulton Hogan, Downer or Veolia. The last two groups have quite a bit of power over the contracting TA, I've heard the relationship described as akin to farming.
Nact aligned parties have been at the forefront of this contracting, so it’s definitely the way they want things. it’s done one little bite at a time and then merged into larger and larger organisations that gradually creep into multinational corporates.
The proposed reforms will put a few controls over this. It'll be mostly the same organisations / people doing the work but the scale will hopefully bring a lot of functions back in-house and curb the farming.
Very good for retirement jobs for ex National MP' s.
The fact of the creeping privatisation that has been happening with public assets, including those mostly under the RADAR by council's, is ignored by 3 waters opponents. Obviously because they are happy for it to continue.
Absolutely shitting that their nice little earner will come to a halt more like
You got it.
are you saying 'it's already happeing, so what's the problem?"
If not, please point to the parts of the 3 Waters plan that are specifically designed to prevent privatisation.
My understanding is that councils either do work themselves, contract out to private orgs, or set up organisations that are designed to function like private companies. If National wanted to sell those off, how would it do it currently, given central government doesn't have control of councils and there are still mechanisms for communities to object?
We were one election away from the whole lot being sold off in Auckland.
Banks stated intention if he got in.
Makes it much harder to keep privatisation out of public view if it cannot be done, bit by bit.
It should be stated that part of three waters is bringing more expertise into managing contracting out, which is a part of creeping privatisation of asset management we should oppose. But if it is happening it needs a much greater degree of competent oversight.
Examples are Air NZ and other privatisations which didn't go unnoticed. Note however that National cared so much about democracy that they went ahead anyway. Not without public opposition, though.
Hence labour currently trying to entrench anti -privatisation provisions. The part of the Three Waters bill that opposes privatisation. National, who have suddenly become concerned about public ownership, sic. are opposing them.
Council's privatising the provisions of functions is a problem.
Dog control and park maintenance in Whangarei is one example I've seen close up.
The ever increasing costs and unaccountability of out sourcing what should be core functions.
Wellington bus services is another that has been in the news lately.
I've seen two examples of privatisation of the 3 Waters management in Queenstown, along with other QLDC functions. The first with with contracting to the old works management, who then sold out to another TA's contracting arm was a disaster, the second to a multi national organisation really hasn't lived up to it's promises and may reveal a few unpleasant surprises under the carpet once it's over. QLDC initially wasn't supportive of the 3 Waters proposal, now they are. QLDC have seen the alternatives and see 3 Waters as the preferred option. The real opportunities for privatisation are the small, failing, TA's that don't have an alternative, QLDC was very much in that situation and it looked like a good idea at the time.
"Ngai Tahu have nicely enriched their tribal elite"
Well if you call Ngāi Tahu's engaged community a 'tribal elite' you'd be right. I'm seeing an organisation that going from strength to strength growing and supporting it's members and the surrounding community and environment. I wish I had the whakapapa to be fully engaged.
I wish I had the whakapapa to be fully engaged.
If the left properly understood the iwi entities as essentially nothing more than family owned private corporations with a closed shareholding – then Three Waters would be seen in a quite different light.
Don't think corporation is quite the right description. While the iwi entities are very commercial, there is an equal benevolent focus, often benefiting the wider community.
Could the same be said for Fonterra, Farmlands or Gloriavale? All similarly closed 'corporations'
there is an equal benevolent focus, often benefiting the wider community.
So would you have any objection then to say the Anglican Church having a governance stake in Three Waters?
The Anglican Church and the Crown have a treaty??
The head of the Anglican church is the Crown ( betty windsor)
Ah!
That's a treaty out of the question then.
So this partnership you speak of is a one sided affair in which only one signatory gets to participate or have any say?
I don't understand your comment.
Wishing those "iwi entities" well – both ‘sides’ can teach us all a thing or two.
Indeed – but the idea that only Maori know how to advocate for ethical investiment and sustainability is a tad presumptious surely?
Who is promoting this "tad presumptious [sic]" idea?
Imho that idea is almost as presumptuous as the idea that Māori culture has nothing to offer non-Māori when it comes to ethical investment/investiment and sustainability.
So why then do the left consider Maori corporations to be good and benign while all others are predatory capitalists?
RL, it's hilariously hypocritical that all this 'concern' is being whipped up at the slightest hint of Māori making a bit of 'unearned' profit, when NZ and the rest of the world is awash with unearned profit as it is. Little more than fearmongering, imho.
Now if only there was a mechanism to distribute a slightly larger proportion of the existing unearned profit more equitably…
As for your presumptuous question, it's a non sequitur, don't you think? But, for the record (again), I consider myself a bit of a 'lefty' and yet I can't make head nor tail of it.
One more try: who (apart from you) is promoting "the idea that only Maori know how to advocate for ethical investiment and sustainability"?
"Corporations" that earn money that stays in the community.
Would you rather it went to VEOLA.
Would you rather it went to VEOLA.
Who as it happens also have shareholders. Only open to anyone.
Well, open to anyone with a bit of cash to spare – and here we are.
Perhaps each ‘side’ can teach us all a thing or two.
"Personally, I don't believe that the right has any such intention".
You may not have noticed but "the right" have been involved in creeping privatisation for some time.
Which hasn't need noticed, because it has been peacemeal. Allowed by the fragmentation and number of small entities.
Health is a prime example. So many sections have been contracted out and privatised that a significant proportion of DHB, budgets go on it. DHBs: “Nice little earners” for EY – Otaihanga Second Opinion (wordpress.com)
Had you noticed the dates in the article you linked? The point at which EY's profits skyrocketed was 2017 – virtually doubling every year until 2020 – god knows what they are now.
Labour government.
The Government does not have direct control over DHB, spending.
This model was set up under more right wing Governments in the past.
In case you haven't noticed, Labour is changing the DHB model.
Yes I had noticed that the no. 1 health priority for Andrew Little is apparently reorganizing the Health administration infrastructure.
Wouldn't be mine.
Still no explanation why contractor costs by DHBs were controlled under National and exploded under Labour.
Hint, the DHB governance model didn't change.
Also the DHBs were established under the 5th Labour Government (Helen Clark) – I wouldn't characterize that as a more right wing government – though perhaps you would.
https://www.health.govt.nz/new-zealand-health-system/key-health-sector-organisations-and-people/district-health-boards
If any organisation is created to look after 3 waters, it will still be ultimately accountable to the New Zealand Government – and my understanding of 3 waters is that it is intended to be directly accountable, but that is not yet clear. You are however being suitably cautious about the possibility of a lack of accountability – as I understand it the way in which some organisations in Auckland were created makes them largely unaccountable to the Auckland City Council, even though they are called Council Controlled Organisations – perhaps there should have been more consultation before that was forced on Auckland, but thankfully it seems there will be considerable consultation, and perhaps changes from both current proposals or at least current perceptions from some who are not quite aware of what they think they are opposing. Co-governance has of course been used before – Chris Finlayson speaks highly of it and apparently used it on a number of occasions. Was he and the government he was part of wrong?
I look forward to Mahuta explaining in plain language the exact checks and balances which will enable Government to control the 3 waters bureaucracy.
She has yet to do so.
And, quite frankly, with co-governance, I don't see how it would be possible, in any case.
Consultation over 3 waters has become a dirty word – with the abundant evidence that irrevocable decision are made, before the sham of consultation is carried out. I refer here to Mahuta telling outright lies to Councils that they could opt out, when she knew that Cabinet had already decided that would not be an option.
There's a huge trust deficit that the government has to overcome.
Bit hard to have a decent consultation and discussion, when any policy to try and fix the massive damage done by the right wing over the years, is greeted by a storm of lies and scare mongering bullshit.
Which you are blindly repeating.
Where were you when the Minister of Health in the National Government pushed to privatise sectors of the health system, to retire to a job with one of those private companies? You didn't give a stuff. But you are happy to repeat unsubstantiated rumours about "corruption behind three waters".
I have concerns about repeating the private sector Governance structures, which have been used for CCO's and SOE's, to distance them from democratic control. Deliberately so when the ACTiods set them up. Shows their real attitude to democracy.
However any genuine concerns and suggestions for improvement, have been lost in the bullshit.
Look, if you believe that, this has all been laid out – in crystal clear language with appropriate checks and balances, and government control specifically legislated for – then please link to it.
ATM – what I'm seeing is simply a 'trust us, we know what we're doing' message from Mahuta. And, that is what you are blindly repeating.
Those of us who are sceptical of 3 waters, are *not* reassured by this. And the scepticism is hardening into opposition.
The best way to convince people is to explain: exactly how it will work, and to answer the 'what if' concerns with information about how that contingency is provided for.
It doesn't matter if you think it's 'bullshit' – explain to people exactly how that concern will be mitigated.
There has been no attempt by Mahuta to do this.
"There has been no attempt by Nanaia Mahuta to do this" that has been reported in most of the media!
Subtle difference.
And no. It hasn’t been “all laid out”. Despite what has been said, consultation is ongoing.
Nania Mahuta has a huge platform and budget. Perhaps the $5M+ spent on the stupid attack ads could have been diverted to this purpose?
Then the right wing would have been all over it, about money wasted on "manufacturing consent".
What, like the money wasted on a taxpayer-funded propaganda campaign (which absolutely failed, adding insult to injury).
An actual information campaign to give people answers to the inevitable questions, would have been a much better use of the money (and much less liable to being attacked).
How do you alleviate "concerns" that are basically scare mongering?
Like the sudden “concern” by the right wing about privatisation. Something they have been quietly proceeding with in council’s for decades.
Concerns such as the ones I have, are buried under a storm of "concerns" most of which are unrelated to the need to deal with under-investment and council failures with 3 waters, such as accusations of nepotism and unsubstantiated gossip about when descissions were made.
Not unsubstantiated gossip
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/457660/three-waters-government-agreed-to-mandated-strategy-before-four-entities-announced
Cabinet decision made in June – about 2 weeks before the proposals were even announced to Councils (and the rest of us plebs)
Do you have any counter evidence that Mahuta did not lie to Councils about this? Just one of the reasons it is very difficult to trust her over this.
Belladonna wrote:
"And, quite frankly, with co-governance, I don't see how it would be possible, in any case."
Why?
50% iwi. Government have no control over iwi, or who they choose to appoint – (and nor should they) – however, it can't be possible for the Government to control the 3 waters bureaucracy in that scenario.
What do you mean/understand by "50% iwi"?
RRGs who appoint the board and set the overall direction will be 50% iwi.
No requirement for the board to consist of any elected representatives (and it seems unlikely that they would – since Manuta appears to believe that they will be appointed on the basis of professional skills and competency)
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/04/government-s-three-waters-co-governance-promise.html
What happens if:
I'm not really interested in the statement that any of the above 'can't happen'. It might be impossible to envisage now, but over time?
We've certainly seen both Councils and Iwi have failures of leadership. I decline to believe that there is something magic about water management which would prevent this from ever happening.
I'd certainly prefer to know the methodology for dealing with the outcomes of these scenarios in advance.
Would all of you be as enthusiastic if this was being proposed by a National/Act government?
If you believe/recognise that councils "have failures of leadership", why are you keen for them to retain control over water?
If you believe that iwi have failure over leadership, why are you so keen to give them control over water?
We can vote out poorly performing local government representatives. Neither we (nor the iwi themselves) have any mechanism to vote out poorly performing iwi leadership.
Councils that have failures of leadership can be replaced in a democratic society.That is the remedy against maladministration.
In the forthcoming local elections,there is a high probability that many will be removed with expedient demise,Mostly for incompetence and the failure that they have a duty of care for their locality (read fiscal responsibilty)
The high levels of debt being racked up by the incumbents are unsustainable.
3 Waters cost are over 1.5 billion without any forecast in efficiency, and only for the bureaucracy, and is all being funded on overseas debt.(treasury notes the high level of risk in the IT alone)
"Would all of you be as enthusiastic if this was being proposed by a National/Act government?"
Well. We know you would be.
But. They would be doing it intending to do an Air NZ.
Labour are trying to entrench anti-privatisation provisions. Which National and ACT, oppose!.
Any evidence for this? In any of the comments I've made on this or any other topic?
Or is it just a baseless slur, because you're unable to actually answer any of my arguments.
For reference, I think this is bad legislation from a democratic perspective, regardless of which party proposed it. I don’t believe that watering-down democracy for what seems like ‘good reasons’ is ever a good solution.
National and Act have announced that they would repeal 3 waters if elected. Why should they agree to entrench something they're planning on repealing?
“Evdence”. Parroting the right wing attack scare mongering.
I have been answering your arguments.
Why wouldn't NACT allow entrenching anti-privatisation provisions, if they were really against privatisation as they now claim? In case the bill gets passed. That doesn’t affect whether they retain or remove the bill.
Of course we all know that National approves of the creeping privatisation of council infrastructure and contracting out. Which is why they really oppose three waters.
Now. It would be good if we could have a sensible discussion about what form Governance of 3 waters would be. Duplicating the SOE or DHB model will be a serious mistake in my opinion, Without the scare mongering and fear of "Brown control".
Haven't parroted a single thing. If the left wing base assumption is that everyone who has concerns over this legislation has been captured by the right wing, then it's not surprising that concern is hardening into opposition.
Also, you haven't answered a single argument – just attacked me, and blindly defended Mahuta.
When you characterize any concern as "scaremongering", then it's not surprising that you can't engage effectively
I've provided legitimate questions and concerns and linked to actual reported evidence.
Zip from you.
Apart from baseless assertions about what National will do in the future (no link to actual announced policy – clearly you're a thought reader), and claims that because National privatized in the past, they're automatically going to do so in the future (the 4th Labour government's track record in this area is apparently not important to you).
There is a lot of consultation to go, and some issues may well change, but the objective of meeting water standards is unlikely to change. Consultation is desirable, and that happens more easily when it is clear the the objectives and obligations on government will not be walked away from, but consultation is often assisted by clear proposals. I do not agree that consultation has become a dirty word – there are a lot of other dirty words being spoken by those who see their job as blind opposition regardless of proposals. Consultation can also be informal – it is not always carried as in a public court trial, and positions can change – at least until legislation is passed.
As for the goal, i is easy to see examples of where cooperation and yes co-governance have worked. Look at the Wanganui River, which will never be totally clear due to the ground is passes through, but which now has secure minimum water flows that avoid many previous problems, and in addition we are able to use some water to generate electricity. Compare that to the situation in Canterbury where we now have a polluted water supply for a whole region, with health impairments for many and increased costs of water treatment for others – all due to arrogant dismissal and overriding of difficult decisions where the community was divided, but should have been enabled to make better decisions themselves than those forced on them. Look at the riber through Palmerston North, which despite some efforts in recent years, continues to be a disgrace – not swimmable for much of its length due to pollution from farming, housing developments and industry. Co-governance would have helped in enabling honesty in reporting what was happening, better knowledge of the way some local politicians funded campaigns by trading zoning agreements for funding, None of us a perfect, but we can influence others by expressing our opinions, and accepting that sometimes agreement will go through a number of stages as a result – small hurdles met with flexibility while keeping end goals in view may signal honest debate rather than a sham of consultation.
Tauranga poll is out – Newhub.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/national-party-s-sam-uffindell-cruising-to-victory-in-tauranga-by-election-newshub-nation-reid-research-poll-shows.html
Sumarized from above.
Uffindell – National 57%
Tinetti – Labour 22%
Cameron Luxton – 7.5% (which those of us who want to comment on politics would be grateful for: having Luxton, Luxton and Luxon in parliament – all for different parties, would be a bit much!)
Party vote (which isn't relevant in this instance) mirrors those results
Up to 1/3 either didn't know or wouldn't say (not uncommon – many people are reluctant to tell pollsters – and many of those won't vote, either) – the 'don't knows' rarely change the polling results substantially – it only really matters in 'too close to call' races.
Now, I know that not everyone here likes or believes in polling (i.e. thinks that polls don't matter, it's only the final result, which counts).
Setting that aside.
It's not surprising that National are out in front. Tauranga has been a National (or National-Lite aka Winston Peters) stronghold for decades.
But, what Labour should be taking close note of, are Tinetti's results.
Again, it's not surprising that she's dropped back from 38% in 2020. That was the Jacinda bounce – unprecedented, and not likely to ever occur again. But she's dropped to 22% from the 26% she had in 2017. Remember 2017 was against Bridges, a sitting MP, and pretty popular in Tauranga. Now she's standing against a relative unknown. I wouldn't expect her to win, but I would expect that Labour may be concerned over this evident softening of support. While by-elections rarely favour the sitting government, they also usually favour a current MP (albeit a List one) over a newcomer – just through name-recognition.
While the Green party vote is low at 3% – given that they're not standing a candidate in the by-election, I don't think they'll be too worried about this (out-of-sight = out-of-mind for most voters)
Link to the 2017 Tauranga results (just scroll up for 2020)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauranga_(New_Zealand_electorate)#2017_election
The question has been asked several times recently whether Tauranga is a racist city. Apparently in this same poll only 51% of respondents disagreed.
Bluntly, I'd say a lot of Tauranga residents who vote National have a problem with Maori in general, and they certainly have a problem with any form of partnership as described by Te Tiriti. This progressive government's bold plan for redress is not popular with racists.
All those Kiwifruit orchards are built on stolen land but the owners and benefactors can't bring themselves to admit it.
I would far prefer Labour, and specifically Labour Maori, continue the drive for real change and take some hits rather than run scared of the Western BOP elite.
Yet for 38 of the last 41 years tauranga national voters have voted in a maori MP..
Useless Maori MPs. There is no way these Maori MPs advocated for Maori, they advocated instead for wealthy pakeha elite.
If around 60% of Tauranga consists of wealthy elite (whether pakeha or Maori) – we should be rolling it out as a template for the rest of the country. /sarc/
People, by and large, vote for the policies (and politicians) which they believe will benefit them.
MPs act for the best of all of their constituents – not just the ones who they think voted for them (or the ones which share their ethnicity). Peters, for example, did very, very well for the people of Tauranga while he was their local MP. To describe them as 'useless Maori' is one of the most profoundly racist statements I've read on TS.
You can't simply condemn electorates as racist because they don't (or won't) vote the way you'd like them to. Especially where they have a demonstrated history of voting for candidates regardless of ethnicity. Should we declare the people of Mt Albert racist because they have never elected a Maori MP?
After all, the majority of Maori don't vote for TPM – which would seem to be the party which would advocate best for Maori. Perhaps they're all less racist than you think.
The term, "useless Maori" is not mine, it is Willie Jackson's:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/willie-jackson-says-david-seymour-not-just-a-useless-maori-hes-a-dangerous-politician-too/XURFPMDWZ23D7AE5EULZ2OVMAA/
David Seymour of course having the same attributes as both Winston Peters and Simon Bridges with respect to advocating for Maori. Simply, they didn't.
The right and hard right in varying degrees hate the idea the public should support any culture and identity despite NZ's identity heavily relying on Te Ao Maori. It's who we are but ACT's vision of NZ is one of diluted homogeny, a plain South Pacific country indistinguishable from any other western country.
This government recognises the importance of supporting Maori and Maori culture, useless Maori do not.
Nope. If you intend to quote someone, you put it in quote marks, attribute it, and preferably give a source.
Own your prejudice.
Which, I see you have, doubling down on your blatant racism.
So, presumably the 18.2% of the Tauranga population who are Maori consist entirely of Uncle Toms?
Can you just not conceive that the majority of people in NZ – even those who live in benighted Tauranga – vote according to their political principles, rather than along racial lines?
Or can you only justify democracy when it aligns with your prejudices.
For all those who want a secure job, a potential career, to make a real difference peoples lives or a combination of all three nows your chance:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mt-eden-prison-staff-crisis-102-vacancies-double-bunking-to-increase-nationally/RQZRSDVCOOXGYFTVMV4N3EVGOU/
'There is a shortage of more than 400 officers across all seniority levels nationally.
The shortage is especially pronounced at Mt Eden prison, home mostly to remand prisoners who have been arrested but are yet to face trial or be sentenced.
A source familiar with internal figures said there were 102 vacancies at Mt Eden as of the last week of May.'
Come on down, we'll probably take you especially at Mt Eden
https://www.seek.co.nz/Corrections-officer-jobs
Umbero knew his fascists.
Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.
[…]
Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.
https://archive.ph/Q4nzW
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1532723244616359936
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1532776998501744641