Open mike 05/06/2022

36 comments on “Open mike 05/06/2022 ”

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1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1

   5 June 2022 at 7:13 am

   Counterspin Media had planned to hold an event in Dunedin as part of a tour, but had its bookings cancelled at the South Dunedin Community Hall and at Burns Hall.

   Despite its claims to be an apolitical platform, many of the organisation’s values align closely with far right beliefs and conspiracy theories, such as Covid-19 denialism.

   The organisation was a vocal agitator in the Wellington mandate protests.

   https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/not-wanted-city-event-shifts-henley

   Counterspin Media director Kelvyn Alp

   The fuckwits…….fuckwit. Big ups for the rational, good People of Dunedin who called the Church and hall to alert, as to what the intent and who the scum bags were behind the bookings. Meanwhile…Henley. Wonder who will attend ?
   • Robert Guyton 1.1

     5 June 2022 at 8:54 am

     The gullible.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1

       5 June 2022 at 9:10 am

       Alp was an agitating force at the Convoy 2022 New Zealand protest, calling for the protestors to storm parliament and arrest MPs, while making multiple references to killing them.[9][10]

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvyn_Alp

       Well I suppose “gullible” is charitable of you. However any one who isnt aware of who counterspin are, and what they represent…or have leanings toward…..are something else.

       I am still kinda amazed that Alp is still able to promulgate his shit…after the Death Threats an all…..
       • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1

         5 June 2022 at 9:58 am

         There are less charitable descriptions I could have used, but "gullible" still applies to people who are taken-in by the sorts of ideas promulgated by Counterspin.

         I'm keen to hear what words you'd choose to describe the potential Henly audience 🙂
         Oops! Just re-read you original comment and I see you already have labeled them 🙂
         • KJT 1.1.1.1.1

           5 June 2022 at 10:11 am

           Too kind.

           I would have said, blithering idiots, or prime examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

           From the sort of people who slept through science and math at school.
       • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.2

         5 June 2022 at 10:32 am

         They've been booted out of Invercargill as well, and Wallacetown.
   • Rosemary McDonald 1.2

     5 June 2022 at 10:40 am

     …who will attend ?

     Those who took the Pfizer Product and have had their health severely negatively impacted and have found little to no sympathy from the ensorcelled masses who still hang onto the belief that it is indeed "Safe and Effective".

     And the friends and family of the above.

     If we talk about this we are labelled "anti-vaxxers" and "conspiracy theorists" by mainstream media and so called Lefties.

     And those of us who exercised our right to not partake of the Pfizer Product, after having watched very carefully how the data collected from overseas indicated that the Pfizer Product's level of Safety and Effectiveness is not high enough to justify it being mandated for anyone. We lost our paid employment. That is a big hit to take when times are getting even tougher.

     If we talk about this we are labelled "anti-vaxxers" and "conspiracy theorists" by mainstream media and so called Lefties.

     And then there's the folk (like some here on TS) who feel this Transparent and Transformative Government have blindsided the general population with the done deal that is Three Waters.

     From very early on, any and all queries or concerns copped an accusation of racism…even if the concerns had nothing to do with iwi co-governance.

     Many of the New Zealanders (and like it or not that is what we are) who gathered in Wellington on Waitangi weekend (or supported those who did) were personally impacted by the first two issues and had significant concerns about the other. Some of us took great umbrage at our purportedly kind Prime Minister quite happily driving a fucking great big wedge between groups New Zealanders based on their uptake of a medicinal product that she knew did not stop transmission of SARS Cov2. "Save the health system…!!!" we were told. (How has that plan worked out?)

     All the usual avenues of inquiry and discussion and debate have been vigorously shut down since early 2020 under the pretext of quelling misinformation and disinformation and the new-on-the-block 'malinformation'.

     Our Prime Minister's wee speech on the 2nd March following the violent removal of the overwhelmingly peaceful protesters from what we used to consider was our parliament grounds was quite possibly the Final Straw.

     It was incredibly dishonest, but I guess politically expedient, to tar all of the protesters with the same brush based on the actions and words of a tiny, minuscule minority.

     That's what she did…and despite taking a hit in recent polls…she is not backing down.

     The folk with vaccine injuries and their families, the ones who lost their jobs because of the unjustified mandates, the ones with valid concerns over the very hurried Three Waters and those of us who lose sleep at the level of censorship and deplatforming of those with ideas and opinions that differ from the accepted narrative…where will we find safe zones to talk about the issues that matter?

     Toxic waste dumps like Counterspin Media are filling a void deliberately created by Government (all Parties) and their stenographers in mainstream media.

     It's a appropriate time, methinks, to remind the Good Lefties here on The Standard of the political leanings of the Freedom Villagers.

     …29.8% backing Labour in 2020, roughly 16% of surveyed protesters identified as Green voters, while 15.9% voted National and 11.9% voted Act.

     In the old days, the Beforetimes, such a result would serve as a wake up call to the Ruling Parties that they ought to engage with at least a little less contempt with those who voted for them.

     Former Maori Party MP Marama Fox has a wee bit to say on the topic. Highly recommend folks listen to this discussion.
     • Robert Guyton 1.2.1

       5 June 2022 at 10:55 am

       Rosemary – you label Counterspin Media a "toxic waste dump", then say that those who will attend their meetings are :

       "Those who took the Pfizer Product and have had their health severely negatively impacted and have found little to no sympathy from the ensorcelled masses who still hang onto the belief that it is indeed "Safe and Effective".

       And the friends and family of the above."

       This seems incongruous. Why would those people support a toxic waste dump?

       "Toxic waste dumps like Counterspin Media"
       • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.1.1

         5 June 2022 at 1:05 pm

         Perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

         It was Ardern and her MSM stenographers who lumped all of us in with CounterspinMedia and their ilk. Literally. The fact that nearly half…if not more… of the Freedom Villagers were Labour/Green voters and hence "Leftish" meant nothing. We were all disposed of down the same oubliette.

         The groups that I kept track of during the protest…those who took up the cause of the vaccine injured and mandated have largely disappeared from Faceache…possibly to Telegram. They have been driven underground…by this government and their lapdog MSM. (I cannot bear Facebook, nevermind other platforms so I will not follow)

         Some…some will go to the CounterspinMedia events…because, tribe. And the fact that the past two PMs of note have capitalised on the Cult of Personality tactic and the political climate of late has encouraged fans and followers.

         Some of us are content to have loose and informal associations of likeminded dissidents, and many of us will never vote again. We don't follow a leader and we don't follow a brand and we don't subscribe to a particular ideology. We have been pushed irrevocably into the margins, and there we will stay.

         Did you perhaps listen to Marama Fox Mr Guyton?
         • Robert Guyton 1.2.1.1.1

           5 June 2022 at 2:49 pm

           I did listen to Marama Fox, Rosemary, when she arrived at the camp to extricate her whanau, against their wishes. There's a whole story in that circumstance.

           The question was around how attendees at the present Counterspin meetings might be categorised. I said, "gullible" – I might have just as easily written, "naive".

           You wrote,

           "Some…some will go to the CounterspinMedia events…because, tribe. ”

           That seems to support my view, given that you have already described Counterspin Media as "a toxic waste dump". Anyone attending a meeting called by "a toxic waste dump" or who considers "a toxic waste dump" to be representative of their tribe, is gullible and naive, in my opinion.
     • Populuxe1 1.2.2

       5 June 2022 at 10:56 am

       If we talk about this we are labelled "anti-vaxxers" and "conspiracy theorists" by mainstream media and so called Lefties.

       If that's all it takes for you to cozy up to a far right psychopath like Kelvyn Alp you're not much of a "Lefty" yourself.
       • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.2.1

         5 June 2022 at 1:07 pm

         Where did I say I was cozying up to Alp?

         And a "Lefty"? Maybe once. Can't say I'm inclined to remain in that tribe anymore.
         • Robert Guyton 1.2.2.1.1

           5 June 2022 at 5:46 pm

           Those who attend his meetings are.
           (Cozying up to Alp (sic)).
     • SPC 1.2.3

       5 June 2022 at 7:22 pm

       Those who took the Pfizer Product and have had their health severely negatively impacted and have found little to no sympathy from the ensorcelled masses who still hang onto the belief that it is indeed "Safe and Effective".

       It was and still is safer/more effective than being unvaxxed. It is peddling fake news to say otherwise.

       based on their uptake of a medicinal product that she knew did not stop transmission of SARS Cov2

       Stop lying about the position of others.

       The vaccine did stop transmission. It did however require a booster at/by 6 months to to this with the delta variant (one occurring post vaccine development).

       This only changed this year with omicron (late 2021 South Africa). But even with this variant outcomes are still better for those vaccinated (less likely to be hospitalised). Given what is happening in our hospitals at the moment, it’s fairly clear it would be much worse without vaccination.
     • Fran 1.2.4

       6 June 2022 at 4:58 pm

       Thank you Rosemary, you nailed it. Those people who keep holding onto the idea that the injections worked are not looking at the science or the data. This life long leftie despairs at the division this government has caused and no longer has any faith in them. Again thank you for speaking uncomfortable truths.
       • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.4.1

         6 June 2022 at 5:51 pm

         Thank you, Fran. I was wondering if perhaps I had failed totally to make my position clear. Some folk just can't stray away from the binary. It is not the case that supporting the Freedom Villagers automatically makes one an Alp apostle.

         I believe the wedge driving was deliberate and intentional. If Bloomfield and hence Ardern were not aware of this….

         Statement from CDC Director Rochelle P. Walensky, MD, MPH on Today’s MMWR Media Statement For Immediate Release: Friday, July 30, 2021

         in relation to this data….

         Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, Including COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections, Associated with Large Public Gatherings — Barnstable County, Massachusetts, July 2021 Weekly / August 6,

         which showed that…

         During July 2021, 469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, were identified among Massachusetts residents; vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%. Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons (those who had completed a 2-dose course of mRNA vaccine [Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna] or had received a single dose of Janssen [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine ≥14 days before exposure). Genomic sequencing of specimens from 133 patients identified the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 119 (89%) and the Delta AY.3 sublineage in one (1%). Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic. Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated;

         …then they are totally incompetent and should not be allowed out without minders.

         Bear in mind that this was a full three months before announcing the 'vaccine' mandates. They knew the 'vaccines' did not stop transmission or symptomatic disease. For Delta.

         When Omicron arrived and it was clear it laughed at the Pfizer product all mandates should have been lifted immediately. Getting those doctors, nurses, caregivers, paramedics and fire fighters back to work.

         Because if this is true, and reflects the situation around the country, shit is about to get very, very real.

         https://twitter.com/blairdrysdale77/status/1532824956870197248?cxt=HHwWgIDQkaqL2MUqAAAA
         • SPC 1.2.4.1.1

           6 June 2022 at 6:06 pm

           Yes it became known in 2021, that by 6 months boosters were required to maintain immunity. Which is why these began in 2021 for nations who began vaccinations before us.

           This had no impact on vaccine mandate policy up north, or down here in the south. Nations just began to provide boosters at/by 6 months.

           With omicron the situation is different. Providing immunity at the workplace is no longer possible.

           All vaccination can do now is to reduce the number of hospitalisations. Which is still useful in preventing the health system from being overwhelmed with community infection.

           The question for the essential workplace is whether staff should be laid if they are contacts, with the onset of symptoms, or only if testing positive. With hospitals the key (deciding) determinant would be patient safety.
           • Fran 1.2.4.1.1.1

             7 June 2022 at 12:47 pm

             Perhaps it would be useful for you to look at the actual NZ data for hospitalisations with covid. Rnz publish these regularly. You are more likely to need hospital care if you have had all the shots. The rationale for pushing these shots is very broken and not supported by the data.
             • KJT …

               7 June 2022 at 12:50 pm

               If you understand the data. And statistic/ probability you would have a different opinion.

               It is obvious that Rosemary and yourself, and most of the antivaccers haven't got a clue. Which is why I cannot take them seriously.
             • Incognito …

               7 June 2022 at 1:56 pm

               Why don’t you point to the exact data on the RNZ website and explain to us what you think you see? Bold claims require bold evidence and you’ve provided zilch.

               In fact, this absolutely contradicts you: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/450874/covid-19-data-visualisations-nz-in-numbers [scroll down to Booster effectiveness against Omicron over time, which links to this: https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/10072414/?utm_source=showcase&utm_campaign=visualisation/10072414].

               You’re spreading misinformation here about Covid vaccination, which I don’t take lightly.
             • SPC …

               7 June 2022 at 3:43 pm

               I note you are someone suspicious as to big pharma's track record on vaccines. And I am presuming here, your claim is based on the relative value of vaccination since omicron, not before.

               The thing is, most adults are already vaccinated (risk of death or long covid). So the pertinent detail now, is whether those still unvaccinated are still better off getting vaccinated or not.

               If you have found some evidence in the current data to support your contention that those still unvaccinated (some adults some children) are better off remaining so – simply cite it (and link).
2. dv 2

   5 June 2022 at 9:51 am

   Seems to me the easy way to fix is same 39% rate for all.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128814781/signs-suggest-the-rich-are-trying-to-dodge-new-tax–heres-whats-being-done-about-it

   The department (IR) warns efforts to dodge the new 39% tax by diverting income through companies (where they can be taxed at a maximum of 28%​) and trusts (which can be taxed at a maximum of 33%​) is likely to contribute to a $2.89 billion fall in revenues from high earners in the 2022 tax year.
   • Bearded Git 2.1

     5 June 2022 at 10:19 am

     A Wealth Tax would fix it.
     • dv 2.1.1

       5 June 2022 at 10:31 am

       True, but the tax rate change would be easier.
       • Bearded Git 2.1.1.1

         5 June 2022 at 1:23 pm

         I see loftier goals than making them pay 6% more tax on future income….I dream of wealth distribution such that capital is reallocated in a manner where we end up with a fairer society.

         Unless the Greens get a lot of votes next election it will remain a dream.
         • KJT 2.1.1.1.1

           5 June 2022 at 1:39 pm

           The concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands is both socially and economically unsustainable Sunday Essay: The chain across the river | The Spinoff .

           It has destroyed many States. Rome's Fall Reconsidered on JSTOR "The large estates ….. were… ruining Rome".

           If we don't reverse it, NZ, will join them!
     • Foreign waka 2.1.2

       5 June 2022 at 2:41 pm

       Not if the trust accounts being located overseas. Rich people always knew how to escape tax. It was always the middle class that had to pay double and trice. Gst on Gst, Gst on Tax, taxed income being taxed again and again.

       The next 5 years will be interesting with a steady decline of the middle class. There will be very little cash to splash around. But don't despair, our parliamentarians will be well cared for. That trough will never run dry.

       Meanwhile, I have learned another two couples of NZlanders heading offshore. Better housing, cheaper leaving, greener pastures….in the true sense of the word.
       • Peter 2.1.2.1

         5 June 2022 at 5:56 pm

         Do the NZ couples heading offshore get to vote? I hope not.
         • Belladonna 2.1.2.1.1

           6 June 2022 at 5:57 pm

           So long as they've been in NZ within the last 3 years (of the election date), and are otherwise qualified to vote (over 18, NZ citizen, registered to vote), then yes, they can vote.

           Greens always do well out of the overseas vote.

           Whether they'll bother, is another question:

           https://vote.nz/voting/how-to-vote/vote-from-overseas/
   • AB 2.2

     5 June 2022 at 10:49 am

     What about an overarching principle in the tax code – that the mere existence of complexity in tax affairs constitutes evidence of evasion?
     • dv 2.2.1

       5 June 2022 at 7:27 pm

       Like that
     • Belladonna 2.2.2

       6 June 2022 at 6:12 pm

       Depends on what you mean by 'complexity'

       Anyone who is operating multiple businesses, will indeed have complex tax affairs (and almost certainly an accountant to keep it all straight).

       The whole concept of limited liability is intended to ring-fence assets and liabilities, so they don't affect the rest of your financial situation.

       Tax law is a huge legal field (and minefield). Any change to 'overarching principles' is going to result in decades of legislation while the courts figure out exactly what the parliament intended (or didn't intend). Jam for tax lawerys – on both sides!
   • Belladonna 2.3

     6 June 2022 at 6:08 pm

     I would agree, but with some opt out provisions, at the discretion of the IRD.

     For example, some parents have set up a trust for the benefit of a disabled (usually intellectually disabled) adult child.

     This is to protect the intellectually disabled person (from pressure to give away the money/assets), and to ensure that the money is used appropriately (e.g. for the benefit of the person, rather than wasted).

     A good trustee (some are private, some Public Trust) will be working closely with the disabled person and/or their appointed caregivers, to ensure that the money is used in the best possible way. It's really not possible or appropriate to legislate exactly what it will be used for – it's totally dependent on the individual circumstances.

     On other occasions, money may be left, on the death of a parent or grandparent, in trust for a minor child.

     I wouldn't like to see those trusts caught up in the 'tax them at the highest rate 'scenario.
3. joe90 3

   5 June 2022 at 11:58 am

   The CCP has gone for the threefer and shut down Tiannaman Square remembrances in Hong Kong.

   https://twitter.com/hkfp/status/1532648550546427909

   Mourners in several cities are scheduled on Saturday to mark the 33rd anniversary of the Tiananmen crackdown, when China’s military killed hundreds and perhaps thousands of protesters in Beijing. But for the first time, commemorations in Hong Kong are set to be largely muted.

   […]

   Over the past two years, authorities armed with the Beijing-imposed national security law and citing Covid curbs have made dozens of arrests related to banned vigils and have erased physical mementos of Tiananmen. HKFP examines key moments.

   https://hongkongfp.com/2022/06/03/how-hongkongers-were-silenced-after-three-decades-of-commemorating-the-1989-tiananmen-crackdown/
4. Chris T 4

   5 June 2022 at 4:09 pm

   Pretty funny

   The Queen and Paddington Bear open up for the Queen gig for the Jubilee.

   As much as am not a royalist, you can't deny she is a funny chick.
   • Blade 4.1

     6 June 2022 at 5:03 pm

     Better still, the Poms have outdone the Americans for putting on a extravaganza. No usual staid and reserved fare here.

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